The Pavlich question

[just maybe]

If Fremantle have another average season and Pavlich decides he wants to come home, should we chase him?

What would he require? Could we perhaps offload say, Burton and another player for a couple of first round picks?

As good as we've been, it would help us so much more to have a power forward like Pavlich who is blue-chip reliable.

Of course, age and cost must be taken into account. Thoughts?

[bluecrow]

We should definitely go after Pav. I really doubt it could ever happen, but it's a nice thought! I think we'd have to throw in say Johncock, along with Burton for them to even consider it. Or swap these guys draft picks, as you said.

Rhett Biglands was on Before The Game last night as was asked this very question. Said he would love to have Pav at the Crows, but that he seems happy at Freo. They asked him if he would take a pay cut to get Pav, and he laughed, ie no. :p

[ricciuto]

If Fremantle have another average season and Pavlich decides he wants to come home, should we chase him?

What would he require? Could we perhaps offload say, Burton and another player for a couple of first round picks?

As good as we've been, it would help us so much more to have a power forward like Pavlich who is blue-chip reliable.

Of course, age and cost must be taken into account. Thoughts?
I would not let Burton go, he is one of the best players in the compettion.
I would chase after Pav, as he still is young, but i wouldnt know who to trade for him.

[FCAGJAT]

If Fremantle have another average season and Pavlich decides he wants to come home, should we chase him?

What would he require? Could we perhaps offload say, Burton and another player for a couple of first round picks?

As good as we've been, it would help us so much more to have a power forward like Pavlich who is blue-chip reliable.

Of course, age and cost must be taken into account. Thoughts?

Can't see us trading Burton for Pav .. He has been so integral towards our team structure but then again I suppose that it would require a huge sacrificial lamb to get the Pav. I honestly don't know who I would trade either but Burton would definitely hurt if he was to be traded.

[crowsarethebest]

I would not let Burton go, he is one of the best players in the compettion.
I would chase after Pav, as he still is young, but i wouldnt know who to trade for him.
He's 25/26 this year I think which is around 7 more years of him left. Worth it?

[Stiffy_18]

Anyone who says we shouldn't go after Pavlich if he is available is not fair dinkum about us winning a flag.

If we do go after him one thing is for certain, one of the higher paid players would have to be moved on in ordder to accomodate Pavlich in our salary cap.

[- PC -]

If we do go after him one thing is for certain, one of the higher paid players would have to be moved on in ordder to accomodate Pavlich in our salary cap.
McLeod is coming out of contract soon;)

[crowie]

Anyone who says we shouldn't go after Pavlich if he is available is not fair dinkum about us winning a flag.

If we do go after him one thing is for certain, one of the higher paid players would have to be moved on in ordder to accomodate Pavlich in our salary cap.

Any veteren's list players coming up?

[Kenny_01]

He's 25/26 this year I think which is around 7 more years of him left. Worth it?

Pav is 24, 25 in December.

[Stiffy_18]

McLeod is coming out of contract soon;)
He is close to signing :) :thumbsu:

[CrowMagnum]

I would not let Burton go, he is one of the best players in the compettion.
I would chase after Pav, as he still is young, but i wouldnt know who to trade for him.
How about Ken McGregor as part of the package - still highly rated by other clubs despite his limitations, and would be the ultimate irony.

[Wayne's-World]

How about Ken McGregor as part of the package - still highly rated by other clubs despite his limitations, and would be the ultimate irony.
Nope.... aparantly he's on our untouchable list and rate in the same class as Macleod, Roo and Goody :rolleyes:

[finbarr]

Is Pavlich out of contract at season's end? If so, the way we're going, we'll get him for nothing in the pre-season draft.

[Stiffy_18]

According to Biglands, he is :)
How come Biglands mentioned it :confused:

[Capitalist]

Anyone who says we shouldn't go after Pavlich if he is available is not fair dinkum about us winning a flag.

If we do go after him one thing is for certain, one of the higher paid players would have to be moved on in ordder to accomodate Pavlich in our salary cap.

there is two parts I have issues with here stiffy

I don't think we should go after Pav , and I am fair dinkum about winning a flag - why waste more draft picks and young players in persuit of a bandaid

if you are fair dinkum about winning a flag you know its about structure and developing a player none of this lets recruit a star to win the flag for us (ie The Wayne)

NC is fair dinkum about winning a flag but he realises that it doesn't happen over night - the only reason we are not in the same boat as Port is because we have been smart and started redeveloping our list while 4-5 of our guns are still in their prime - we are going to win a flag but Roo and co won't be the people winning it - they will the ones who finish the job

[pinkus maximus]

I know you guys might laugh at this suggestion,but Pavlich + rd1 pick for Van Berlo?

[Stiffy_18]

there is two parts I have issues with here stiffy

I don't think we should go after Pav , and I am fair dinkum about winning a flag - why waste more draft picks and young players in persuit of a bandaid

if you are fair dinkum about winning a flag you know its about structure and developing a player none of this lets recruit a star to win the flag for us (ie The Wayne)

NC is fair dinkum about winning a flag but he realises that it doesn't happen over night - the only reason we are not in the same boat as Port is because we have been smart and started redeveloping our list while 4-5 of our guns are still in their prime - we are going to win a flag but Roo and co won't be the people winning it - they will the ones who finish the job
I disagree strongly with this.

Its funny how people always bring up the Carey trade and ask haven't we learnt anything from it. How about bringing up a Jarman trade that also involved a great young player AND draft picks. Do any of you have regrets there.

Pavlich is hardly a bandaid solution as you say. He is 24 FFS, he isn't a 32 year old Carey. Pavlich is yet to reach his peak. Some of you are making sound like he is in a wheelchair :rolleyes:

You can have structure and what ever for as long as you like but over the years its proven that teams with gun key forward are the ones that win the big one. We won't develop one of those because our picks are not good enough to pinch one of that caliber. Our best bet is to trade for on.

Just for the record, Barry Hall was older when Sydney traded for him and I am sure that they haven't got a single ounce of regret for pulling the trigger then. They would do that trade million times over again.

Fact is that we have a 2 year window of opportunity to win something. As much as we are an even side, we still heavily rely on our big guns to lead the way. Goodwin and Edwards are our prime movers from our midfield, McLeod from our defence and Roo is our leading goal kicker. We can't expect these boys to have same level of performance. They will start to slow down and become bits players. We need to strike while the iron is hot and thats over the next 2 years. Miss this opportunity and it will be a while since we are there again. That is the cold hard truth about where we are.

[Stiffy_18]

I know you guys might laugh at this suggestion,but Pavlich + rd1 pick for Van Berlo?
Van Berlo > God
Van Berlo is the man that evicted Big Brother from Big Brother.

So the answer is no :D

[macca23]

You can have structure and what ever for as long as you like but over the years its proven that teams with gun key forward are the ones that win the big one. We won't develop one of those because our picks are not good enough to pinch one of that caliber. Our best bet is to trade for on.



Just to ilustrate your point Stiffy, I went to the Port/Brisbane fiasco today, and Brown and Bradshaw both pantsed Port Adelaide today.

If we had those 2 as our key forwards we'd kick 50 goals per game (a slight exaggeration maybe ;) ).

[NikkiNoo]

Just to ilustrate your point Stiffy, I went to the Port/Brisbane fiasco today, and Brown and Bradshaw both pantsed Port Adelaide today.

If we had those 2 as our key forwards we'd kick 50 goals per game (a slight exaggeration maybe ;) ).

unless you had the opposition dropping FOUR players back into your forward line ala richmond! Still can't believe the booing from their own supporters about that style of play :D

I would say go after pavlich but for the right price.

I don't mind when we give a win / win situation in the trade but that Van Berlo is a keeper, one of a couple of players that actually fronted to the aftermatch function in melbourne last night :thumbsu:

[Stiffy_18]

Just to ilustrate your point Stiffy, I went to the Port/Brisbane fiasco today, and Brown and Bradshaw both pantsed Port Adelaide today.

If we had those 2 as our key forwards we'd kick 50 goals per game (a slight exaggeration maybe ;) ).
I'd be happy with only Brown.

Brown and Bradshaw would be, pants down and lap around the table time :D

[crows98]

I am also fair dinkum (and don’t want to go over old ground as we has this argument/discussion this morning) about winning a premiership ASAP.

I believe that going after Mathew Pavlich will set our premierships plans back a few years as we will have to give up to much as Fremantle will be asking for a truck load in return. I don’t want to miss that window to win another flag for the likes of Ricciuto, Hart, Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod who with a 3rd would top of a few fantastic careers

Saying that, if we snag the premiership this year (and I am not getting ahead of myself) then I would go and chase him and would be willing to give up Marty’s farm to get him. And we can have another shot in 3 or 4 year with the likes of Douglas, Knights, Van Berlo and co with Rutten and Pavlich in there prime.

[finbarr]

Just to ilustrate your point Stiffy, I went to the Port/Brisbane fiasco today, and Brown and Bradshaw both pantsed Port Adelaide today.

If we had those 2 as our key forwards we'd kick 50 goals per game (a slight exaggeration maybe ;) ).

Only if you came up against Matthew Bishop 22 times a year.

[raikkonen]

Only if you came up against Matthew Bishop 22 times a year.

Hahaha. Bishop sucks.

Pavlich for Scott Stevens and some early picks??? :confused:

[raikkonen]

Van Berlo > God
Van Berlo is the man that evicted Big Brother from Big Brother.

So the answer is no :D

Thats good. :thumbsu: LOL

[wizard_9]

Just so we are all clear on what is happening, The Pav is signed until the end of the 2007 season and i wouldn't be surprised if we are already re-negotiating with him.

Just for the sake of a trade how about this one?

Pavlich => Adelaide
Johncock, Hentschel & 1st Rnd Pick => Fremantle

[Allefgib]

I am also fair dinkum (and don’t want to go over old ground as we has this argument/discussion this morning) about winning a premiership ASAP.

I believe that going after Mathew Pavlich will set our premierships plans back a few years as we will have to give up to much as Fremantle will be asking for a truck load in return. I don’t want to miss that window to win another flag for the likes of Ricciuto, Hart, Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod who with a 3rd would top of a few fantastic careers

Saying that, if we snag the premiership this year (and I am not getting ahead of myself) then I would go and chase him and would be willing to give up Marty’s farm to get him. And we can have another shot in 3 or 4 year with the likes of Douglas, Knights, Van Berlo and co with Rutten and Pavlich in there prime.

Only be Roo's second mate. But I agree with the sentiment.

[afc9798]

McLeod is coming out of contract soon;)

To quote Kerry Packer: "You only get one Alan Bond in a lifetime", could Fremantle be our Alan Bond?:D

[- PC -]

Just for the sake of a trade how about this one?

Pavlich => Adelaide
Johncock, Hentschel & 1st Rnd Pick => Fremantle
How about No

[- PC -]

To quote Kerry Packer: "You only get one Alan Bond in a lifetime", could Fremantle be our Alan Bond?:D
That would be funny

Press conference sometime in the future

''We gave away Peter Bell and he came back because he saw what quality we have here ate Fremantle. Now I am proud to announce that Andrew McLeod is finally a Docker.................again :o ''

[wizard_9]

How about No

I dont think you realise that we have him and you want him. So to get him you need to meet out requests not the other way a round.

[Gets!]

Johncock + 1st rounder and we have a deal.

Throw in Schammer and we'll throw in someone else.

[Glenno23]

How about No

agreed

why would we get rid of Stiffy?

henstchel, i would be willing to part with, and maybe a 1st round pick for Pav

whether freo would go for it or not is another question

IMO, if we dont win a flag with Roo, Mcleod, Edwards and Goody, we will have to wait a couple of years to seriously challenge again, while our young guns develop even more

lets hope freo continue to fail, so Pav gets itchy feet and wants to come home

[Crowked]

I dont think he'd be in our calculations at this point. He would be far to expensive IMO. Just looking around at the highly rated KP players we have sought in the past like Ottens and Ben Holland, I think we would be better off going for a trade up in the draft pecking order to try and get Sellar. Pav has shoulder problems and while I think he is a very good player, he isnt worth the couple of quality players and or draft picks Freo would demand. If he's on the table and at a resonable price, then lets take a serious look but IMO we the supporters really should just forget him as this scenario just insnt going to happen. I reckon we have just as much chance of securing Jonathan Brown from the Lions, zilch!!

[- PC -]

I dont think you realise that we have him and you want him. So to get him you need to meet out requests not the other way a round.
You dont understand, you have him we might want him... if the price is right.

Wayne Carey taught us a lesson that Pavlich nor Fremantle will be able to take advantage of

Come up with a more realistic deal and we will listen

Because bottom line is if Pavlich wants to leave Freo , not come to Adelaide like you think, then he will leave. Troy Simmonds ring a bell?

[Capitalist]

I dont think he'd be in our calculations at this point. He would be far to expensive IMO. Just looking around at the highly rated KP players we have sought in the past like Ottens and Ben Holland, I think we would be better off going for a trade up in the draft pecking order to try and get Sellar. Pav has shoulder problems and while I think he is a very good player, he isnt worth the couple of quality players and or draft picks Freo would demand. If he's on the table and at a resonable price, then lets take a serious look but IMO we the supporters really should just forget him as this scenario just insnt going to happen. I reckon we have just as much chance of securing Jonathan Brown from the Lions, zilch!!

I agree - I don;t think the price we have to pay for PAV will ever be worth it.

I also don;t use the Carey trade as an example of poor trading, I actually think that he added something to club and assisted in the younger players development much more than was ever recognised - look at collingwoods forward line !

anyway - go the youngsters and build our own team - much much cheaper

[- PC -]

I also don;t use the Carey trade as an example of poor trading, I actually think that he added something to club and assisted in the younger players development much more than was ever recognised - look at collingwoods forward line !
Never said it was poor...just the value was overinflated . Plus the other myriad pieces that happened ie Wells

[crows98]

Only be Roo's second mate. But I agree with the sentiment.
Yeah I did know that but you get the idea of what I meant:thumbsu:

[marvin]

Just for the record, Barry Hall was older when Sydney traded for him and I am sure that they haven't got a single ounce of regret for pulling the trigger then. They would do that trade million times over again.


Just curious...

Is the Barry Hall trade the only "blockbuster" trade in the last decade that's actually panned out with a grand final appearance, let alone a premiership for the team with the new gun player?

Croad to Freo for #1, Spider to Hawthorn, Colbert to North, Josh Carr to Freo, Modra to Freo, Headland to Freo, Ottens to Geelong, Rawlings to the Bulldogs, McKernan to Carlton, Nathan Brown to Richmond, Carey to Adelaide.......

It's remarkably easy to think of cases where a high profile player changes clubs, and it doesn't pan out, either due to luck (esp. injuries) or intangibles - such as an upset to team chemistry from the departure of popular players.

I'd be interested in looking at Pavlich, but we can't be selling the grandstand.

[Mad Dog]

Johncock + 1st rounder and we have a deal.

Throw in Schammer and we'll throw in someone else.
stiffy stays....end of discussion....:mad:

[Mad Dog]

I dont think you realise that we have him and you want him. So to get him you need to meet out requests not the other way a round.
you're forgetting that for us to get Pav - he would have to want to come home....and if a player wants to come home....usually the home side is in the best bargaining position. Possession in these cases does not guarantee the stronger outcome

[crows98]

you're forgetting that for us to get Pav - he would have to want to come home....and if a player wants to come home....usually the home side is in the best bargaining position. Possession in these cases does not guarantee the stronger outcome

Exactly

Just ask Port Adelaide if they felt like they were compensated after losing Josh Carr who went home to Fremantle.

Answer – Hell no.

[Glenno23]

Exactly

Just ask Port Adelaide if they felt like they were compensated after losing Josh Carr who went home to Fremantle.

Answer – Hell no.

and us with Stenglein

he would have been a great player for the club

did we get Thompson as part of the Stenglein deal??

[James23]

^ yes

[Stiffy_18]

and us with Stenglein

he would have been a great player for the club

did we get Thompson as part of the Stenglein deal??
We got a fair compesation for Stinger.

Pick 12 (traded to Melbourne for Thompson) and pick 28 (used to Draft Chad Gibson) for Stinger was a pretty good deal IMHO.

[Capitalist]

Never said it was poor...just the value was overinflated . Plus the other myriad pieces that happened ie Wells

Don't worry PC that wasn't aimed at you ;)

[wizard_9]

You dont understand, you have him we might want him... if the price is right.

Wayne Carey taught us a lesson that Pavlich nor Fremantle will be able to take advantage of

Come up with a more realistic deal and we will listen

Because bottom line is if Pavlich wants to leave Freo , not come to Adelaide like you think, then he will leave. Troy Simmonds ring a bell?

There is a big difference in than with Simmonds. Richmond finished down the bottom so had a SPD pick as bargaining leverage whereas you would not have it if this arose.

[Crow-mo]

Pav is 24, 25 in December.

which means he has 3 years of good footy in him. tops.

[Crow-mo]

Nope.... aparantly he's on our untouchable list and rate in the same class as Macleod, Roo and Goody :rolleyes:

WW,

don't be a clown. stalking in the shadows, ready to jump out on a player who has a dip in form, despite years of high quality performance says more about you, than the player.

[Crow-mo]

Brown and Bradshaw would be, pants down and lap around the table time :D

this seems to be a recurring theme with you stiffy, are you sure you have joined any 'lifestyle' groups recently :D

[Crow-mo]

Just so we are all clear on what is happening, The Pav is signed until the end of the 2007 season and i wouldn't be surprised if we are already re-negotiating with him.

Just for the sake of a trade how about this one?

Pavlich => Adelaide
Johncock, Hentschel & 1st Rnd Pick => Fremantle

this year or next?

I'd do that this year, but not at end of 2007.

[Crow-mo]

You dont understand, you have him we might want him... if the price is right.


He's right, you're off base. it's a sellers market, he's under contract and they would rather keep him.

[Crow-mo]

Exactly

Just ask Port Adelaide if they felt like they were compensated after losing Josh Carr who went home to Fremantle.

Answer – Hell no.

Port got plenty for josh carr - freo's 1st 3 picks? jesus, that's a bloody good result.

Can't blame anyone if they didn't use them well.

[arrowman]

this year or next?

I'd do that this year, but not at end of 2007.Fair call.

- I think "which means he has 3 years of good footy in him. tops." is a bit of an exaggeration. But not much of one.

Freo would want something like Hentschel + Johncock (or perhaps VB) plus a first round pick and that's too much for any one player, no matter who they are (OK, except Judd :) ). And we'd probably be prepared to pay one good player plus first round pick (this year, not next). The reality is that some players, like Pavlich, are simply "untradeable" because there is an inherent mismatch between their value to the "sending" club vs their value to the "receiving" club.

[Porthos]

Just curious...

Is the Barry Hall trade the only "blockbuster" trade in the last decade that's actually panned out with a grand final appearance, let alone a premiership for the team with the new gun player?Wakelin and Pickett should qualify. Alastair Lynch on a significant delay.

[Crow-mo]

Fair call.

- I think "which means he has 3 years of good footy in him. tops." is a bit of an exaggeration. But not much of one.

Freo would want something like Hentschel + Johncock (or perhaps VB) plus a first round pick and that's too much for any one player, no matter who they are (OK, except Judd :) ). And we'd probably be prepared to pay one good player plus first round pick (this year, not next). The reality is that some players, like Pavlich, are simply "untradeable" because there is an inherent mismatch between their value to the "sending" club vs their value to the "receiving" club.

you make a very good call about the inherent mismatch of value, I think you are probably right on that. Pavlich has certain token/talismanic values to the Freo footy club, beyond that of just a player.

However, again I would emphasise the CHF types who perform at the same elite level they made their name on, at age 28 and beyond are very few and far between. no player/position ages quicker than a CHF, in fact I would suggest it is not even close.

27 to me, seems to be about the cutoff. there is still a good player left behind, but the elite years tend to be over much after this.

[Stiffy_18]

you make a very good call about the inherent mismatch of value, I think you are probably right on that. Pavlich has certain token/talismanic values to the Freo footy club, beyond that of just a player.

However, again I would emphasise the CHF types who perform at the same elite level they made their name on, at age 28 and beyond are very few and far between. no player/position ages quicker than a CHF, in fact I would suggest it is not even close.

27 to me, seems to be about the cutoff. there is still a good player left behind, but the elite years tend to be over much after this.
Dermie was done by the age of 28.

Maybe Barry Hall is the one exception in recent times when he has probably played his best footy after the age of 28.

[Porthos]

Freo would want something like Hentschel + Johncock (or perhaps VB) plus a first round pick and that's too much for any one player, no matter who they areI guess it depends on how you look at it.

Hentschel, you would immediately improve upon by getting Pavlich
Johncock, while a loss, you wouldn't think is irreplaceable. You'd have a player 80% as good right now, wouldn't you? How good do you need a back flanker to be?
And then a first round pick, which won't matter for a few years yet anyway.

In return for a decrease in back flanker quality, and a small hit to long-term youth prospects, you get a much, much better key forward.

I think if that deal was offered, you'd be silly not to take it, quite frankly.

[Crow-mo]

Dermie was done by the age of 28.

Maybe Barry Hall is the one exception in recent times when he has probably played his best footy after the age of 28.

dermie was done by about 24!

I was just thinking about Barry Hall, and why is he is an exception? I think, it is probably because he was never an elite forward until later in his career and perhaps took less of a beating as a result? He is a real late developer, and maybe his body was more mature and developed by the time that the real strain came.

[- PC -]

There is a big difference in than with Simmonds. Richmond finished down the bottom so had a SPD pick as bargaining leverage whereas you would not have it if this arose

He's right, you're off base. it's a sellers market, he's under contract and they would rather keep him.My scenario is about him being out of contract

And if Pav said ''nah screw you CC I'm out and I dont care where I go, and if a deal cant be made with Adelaide then I am in the PSD''

What does Fremantle do...and sacking Connolly is not an option ;)

[Crow-mo]

My scenario is about him being out of contract

And if Pav said ''nah screw you CC I'm out and I dont care where I go, and if a deal cant be made with Adelaide then I am in the PSD''

What does Fremantle do...and sacking Connolly is not an option ;)

fine, except for your scenario isn't real. he is under contract, and has made it clear he has not intention of screwing over fremantle.

So if he were a victorian player, who was out of contract, and didn't care much for his current team - maybe you have a point. but that's not what we're dealing with.

[The Crows Truth]

I disagree strongly with this.

Its funny how people always bring up the Carey trade and ask haven't we learnt anything from it. How about bringing up a Jarman trade that also involved a great young player AND draft picks. Do any of you have regrets there.

Pavlich is hardly a bandaid solution as you say. He is 24 FFS, he isn't a 32 year old Carey. Pavlich is yet to reach his peak. Some of you are making sound like he is in a wheelchair :rolleyes:

You can have structure and what ever for as long as you like but over the years its proven that teams with gun key forward are the ones that win the big one. We won't develop one of those because our picks are not good enough to pinch one of that caliber. Our best bet is to trade for on.

Just for the record, Barry Hall was older when Sydney traded for him and I am sure that they haven't got a single ounce of regret for pulling the trigger then. They would do that trade million times over again.

Fact is that we have a 2 year window of opportunity to win something. As much as we are an even side, we still heavily rely on our big guns to lead the way. Goodwin and Edwards are our prime movers from our midfield, McLeod from our defence and Roo is our leading goal kicker. We can't expect these boys to have same level of performance. They will start to slow down and become bits players. We need to strike while the iron is hot and thats over the next 2 years. Miss this opportunity and it will be a while since we are there again. That is the cold hard truth about where we are.


excellent post Stiffs - I agree 100% :thumbsu:

[Stiffy_18]

dermie was done by about 24!

I was just thinking about Barry Hall, and why is he is an exception? I think, it is probably because he was never an elite forward until later in his career and perhaps took less of a beating as a result? He is a real late developer, and maybe his body was more mature and developed by the time that the real strain came.
Well Pavlich is a bit of a similar story. Not because he is a late bloomer (3AA by the age of 24 certainly :D:D:D:Ds on that theory) but because until last year, he hasn't played CHF on full time basis. He spent most of his early career with Freo as a CHB who was then moved to the midfield for a couple of years. He has only really played CHF full time last season and so far this year so he might still have more to offer than someone who has played CHF all their career (eg Brown)

[- PC -]

fine, except for your scenario isn't real. he is under contract, and has made it clear he has not intention of screwing over fremantle.

And I figured I made it clear he wouldnt come until he is out of contract, but fair enough if I didnt

Because bottom line is if Pavlich wants to leave Freo , not come to Adelaide like you think, then he will leave. Troy Simmonds ring a bell?
I figured it implied ''once his contract was up''

[SpringChoke]

Here we go again.

[Mad Dog]

Dermie was done by the age of 28.

Maybe Barry Hall is the one exception in recent times when he has probably played his best footy after the age of 28.
Each time I see those 2 strapped shoulders - thought of a trade makes me nervous

[SpringChoke]

Each time I see those 2 strapped shoulders - thought of a trade makes me nervous

Agree. We had the oipportunity in 2002 and blew it. Time to move on. Freo would want 2 top 10 picks anyway, so it definately won't happen.

[marvin]

Wakelin and Pickett should qualify. Alastair Lynch on a significant delay.

Thanks - all fair calls.

It was genuine question, not my usual rhetorical one. :thumbsu: