Subiaco Oval re-development

[surfsup]

Interesting, but where does an extra 17,000+ people park?

view the animation;
http://www.subiacooval.com.au/gfx/3D_Stadium-V6.swf


http://www.subiacooval.com.au/

[Freo Big Fella]

The article at the bottom of the two page spread today is prime reason why the government should refuse to fund it. Any events at Subi will be constrained by the self important Subiaco Yuppies who voluntarily choose to move into a "trendy" area, then complain because there happens to be a 40,000 seat stadium across the road.


Belmont or Bust I say.

[Slacker]

While I don’t mind Subi it is my opinion that a totally new stadium in a more commercial location would be the way to go. Having seen what could be achieved with the telstra stadium I think it would be a poor decision to inject more development into a stadium that has fundamental problems (orientation, transport, surroundings, room).

A newly designed stadium located in Belmont or Entertainment Centre would be improvements IMO.

Not a huge fan of a Cockburn stadium.

[deejay]

Weren't there issues with the last redevelopment that the houses on Roberts Rd would be in the shade if they built the ANZ stand up any higher? (boo hoo) What's changed in the last 6 or 7 years, has the planet's axis changed or something.

Did they end up approving the indoor stadium on the Entertainment Centre car park? Dunno if there's enough room between the railway line and Wellington St for a big footy ground anyway.

here's the story from the paper if you haven't seen it
http://thewest.com.au/20060525/news/general/tw-news-general-home-sto134255.html

[ThePope]

Someone posted a link to a US stadium that has a roof, but the ground slides out to the carpark to be in the sun when you aren't playing a game. Perfect!
You could probably save money by making the roof permanent, rather than open/close. Would be great for the June night games!

Knock over the Burswood dome, build it there. But now that they've gone and built housing there too... probably not enough room and too many complaints about the noise. It ticks all the same boxes as Subi (close to city, trains, freeways etc) and apart from the new apartments less neighbours and has more parking.

edit: seems like there are a couple of slide-out pitch stadiums, 1 in Germany with a retractable roof, the other in Japan with a fixed roof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veltins-Arena - holds 54k
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapporo_Dome - holds 42k

[section8]

Someone posted a link to a US stadium that has a roof, but the ground slides out to the carpark to be in the sun when you aren't playing a game. Perfect!
You could probably save money by making the roof permanent, rather than open/close. Would be great for the June night games!

Knock over the Burswood dome, build it there. But now that they've gone and built housing there too... probably not enough room and too many complaints about the noise. It ticks all the same boxes as Subi (close to city, trains, freeways etc) and apart from the new apartments less neighbours and has more parking.

The dome is due for demolition asap and I can say with absolute certainty that there is not a chance in hell of a stadium of any form being built in it's place. Belmont Park would be perfect IMO but unlikely to materialise. However, given that the poor residents of subi that have reaped the financial benefits of subi oval don't like footy scum parking in their streets you may have to park out at Belmont Park if the upgrade goes ahead. :rolleyes:

The quicker Subi is moved from Costaland and his whining tosser constituents the better. Can't see it happening though unfortunately.

[Polly]

With the redevelopment are they going to address the absolutely :D:D:D:Dful facilities at the ground. There seems to be a trend in WA of building B grade white elephants that are out of date as soon as they open, (re:Convention Centre). The WACA everybody would probably agree has crap facilities and now they want to stick us with Subi for god knows how much longer. I reckon Belmont is a bloody fantastic idea as far as transport and accessability, even Cockburn if it was well serviced by rail, but lets just build a bloody top notch stadium that can cater for a number of interests that has top facilities for patrons. For crying out loud WA is swimming in money at the moment.:thumbsu:

[Punt_Road_Roar]

I heard that Belmont didnt even put in an application even though it would be an ideal location with a tonne of land to build on.

I heard the applicants were Subiaco redevelopment, WACA / Glouster Park, Glory's location (whatever that is called these days) & Cockburn.

I am also curious as to how these 17,000+ extra fans are going to get to the ground. Is our transportation system built to handle an extra 17,000 people on game day? More Buses, More cars and more Train Carrages will occur.

[ThePope]

I heard that Belmont didnt even put in an application even though it would be an ideal location with a tonne of land to build on.
They've probably done the sums and the return on 40-60k visiters every week or so for 22 weeks <<<<<< the $$$$ from selling up every last square metre to the housing developers.

[surfsup]

"The masterplan, which is supported by the Subiaco City Council, will reduce car parking space as the WAFC attempts to have the cost of public transport included in ticket prices.

Its aim is to double the number of spectators who use trains and buses to 50 per cent."

So they're saying that 30,000 people will travel to the new Subiaco Oval via trains and buses.
I think there's as much likelihood of that happening as there is of them sticking to the $235 million it'll cost to redevelop!

[funkyfreo]

Costa isn;t even there any more. You try and take a discussion to the FREO BOARD FOR SOME SENSIBLE DISCUSSION and some toaster idiots still turn up sprouting crap.

and as for public transport - yeah why the hell not. Poor diddums toast fans can sook all they want, but it is a much better way to get to the footy than by SUV tractor. Esp with the tram line to Subi doubling up with the rail.

I thought it looked like a great development proposal. Sure it may not get the nod but there don't seem to be any fatal flaws.

[Rob]

So they're saying that 30,000 people will travel to the new Subiaco Oval via trains and buses.
I think there's as much likelihood of that happening as there is of them sticking to the $235 million it'll cost to redevelop!

It's clear that whoever came up with the 30k figure is, quite simply, a d*ckhead. D*ckheads are people that tell the customer what they want, and then whinge when it doesn't go their way. No doubt the WAFC employed a consultant (the said d*ckhead) who, when asked about parking, replied 'Nah, we need to encourage people to take public transport, so there won't be a need for anymore parking'. By the time someone asked the d*ckhead 'Hey, why will more people take public transport in 10 years than they are now?', the d*ckhead has left the room, and the WAFC are left saying 'Gee, we paid that guy a thousand bucks a minute for that, we better incorporate it into the plan'.

Hence why they reckon 30,000 people will catch a bus or train. Say no to d*ckheads when it comes to designing stadiums.

[funkyfreo]

It's clear that whoever came up with the 30k figure is, quite simply, a d*ckhead. D*ckheads are people that tell the customer what they want, and then whinge when it doesn't go their way. No doubt the WAFC employed a consultant (the said d*ckhead) who, when asked about parking, replied 'Nah, we need to encourage people to take public transport, so there won't be a need for anymore parking'. By the time someone asked the d*ckhead 'Hey, why will more people take public transport in 10 years than they are now?', the d*ckhead has left the room, and the WAFC are left saying 'Gee, we paid that guy a thousand bucks a minute for that, we better incorporate it into the plan'.

Hence why they reckon 30,000 people will catch a bus or train. Say no to d*ckheads when it comes to designing stadiums.

Nah way off the mark. PT Tickets will be included in the game ticket price.

Big new shiny train from the south, bigger trains everywhere else, tram line. Why would you rather be stuck in traffic and with no carparking than catch a train you've already paid for.

At present, the trains on game day are as busy as the roads and the parking, so with more capacity more will use it, no worries. Or you can miss the game.

If you think at $20,000 per multistorey carpark bay a Cockburn stadium will bave 20,000 car parks, well your're dreaming.

[chook2734]

:thumbsd: Nah way off the mark. PT Tickets will be included in the game ticket price.

Big new shiny train from the south, bigger trains everywhere else, tram line. Why would you rather be stuck in traffic and with no carparking than catch a train you've already paid for.

At present, the trains on game day are as busy as the roads and the parking, so with more capacity more will use it, no worries. Or you can miss the game.

If you think at $20,000 per multistorey carpark bay a Cockburn stadium will bave 20,000 car parks, well your're dreaming.

That sounds just great - not only do we more than likely get a hike in ticket prices to pay for a substandard 'upgrade' but we also get to pay for a train ride we aren't going to take?? Who dreams up this carp???? :thumbsd: :thumbsd:

[funkyfreo]

:thumbsd:

That sounds just great - not only do we more than likely get a hike in ticket prices to pay for a substandard 'upgrade' but we also get to pay for a train ride we aren't going to take?? Who dreams up this carp???? :thumbsd: :thumbsd:

Western Force fans didn't mind.

You will find they strike a deal with the PTA that charges each ticket a portion of the total number of people they think will use public transport. Not a full fare per ticket. So it will only add a buck or so to a ticket.

I would guarentee that the same ticket deal will happen nomatter where the stadium goes. You donlt build a shiny new train next to a shiny new stadium, and do all you can for people to drive to the footy.

As I say, I'm not favouring the subi development, jsut that their proposal is a fair effort and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it.

[milo]

It's clear that whoever came up with the 30k figure is, quite simply, a d*ckhead. D*ckheads are people that tell the customer what they want, and then whinge when it doesn't go their way. No doubt the WAFC employed a consultant (the said d*ckhead) who, when asked about parking, replied 'Nah, we need to encourage people to take public transport, so there won't be a need for anymore parking'. By the time someone asked the d*ckhead 'Hey, why will more people take public transport in 10 years than they are now?', the d*ckhead has left the room, and the WAFC are left saying 'Gee, we paid that guy a thousand bucks a minute for that, we better incorporate it into the plan'.

Hence why they reckon 30,000 people will catch a bus or train. Say no to d*ckheads when it comes to designing stadiums.

D*ckheads are those people who are too lazy to walk past the car in their driveway.

D*ckheads are those who don't think they can use an hour of their lives using public transport.

I know who the consultant would call a d*ckhead.

[Undertaker]

Any money spent at Subiaco Oval is good money lost, it is a disgrace in it's present form and the only way to get what we need is to demolish it and start again. I have been to the new MCG & The Dome and believe me for what we pay for our admission ticket at Subi we are getting ripped off big time.
I don't care where they build it as long as they build a new one, if they refurbish Subi all we will end up with is refurbished carp.

[Dock_king]

Wanting to drive to the footy has nothing to do with laziness. If you want to drive to the footy and can afford to do so, then there shouldn`t be any restrictions in doing so..

Subi is crap!!! Build a quality stadium with modern facilities(including ample parking and decent legroom). It wouldn`t bother most people driving further for quality services.

Milo, d**kheads are those who tell people they`re too lazy to catch public transport-some people simply choose not to do it!

[chook2734]

D*ckheads are those people who are too lazy to walk past the car in their driveway.

D*ckheads are those who don't think they can use an hour of their lives using public transport.

I know who the consultant would call a d*ckhead.

Milo I live 15 minutes drive from the nearest train station - I can stop there, get on a train to Perth (15-20mins) and then change to another train with the rest of the sardines for the ride to Subiaco. I choose to drive for an extra 15 minutes and park the car before walking for 10 minutes to the ground. I car pool with 2 other Freo supporters - does that make me a d*ckhead.

[funkyfreo]

Milo I live 15 minutes drive from the nearest train station - I can stop there, get on a train to Perth (15-20mins) and then change to another train with the rest of the sardines for the ride to Subiaco. I choose to drive for an extra 15 minutes and park the car before walking for 10 minutes to the ground. I car pool with 2 other Freo supporters - does that make me a d*ckhead.

No - carpooling's cool.

[ImperialPurple]

I go to the footy with my husband and 3 kids aged 7, 9, 11. It's cheaper for us to drive and pay $10 for parking - not to mention the convenience factor - than it is to catch the train and pay fares each way. It's also safer to put my kids in the car, with seat belts, than to take them on the train in the crush and the rush after a game.

If that makes me a d*ckhead, well, too fkn bad.

[Rob]

Nah way off the mark. PT Tickets will be included in the game ticket price.

Big new shiny train from the south, bigger trains everywhere else, tram line. Why would you rather be stuck in traffic and with no carparking than catch a train you've already paid for.

At present, the trains on game day are as busy as the roads and the parking, so with more capacity more will use it, no worries. Or you can miss the game.


That's the thing. Traffic is simply not a hassle because matches are played on the weekend, not at peak hour. At the moment, I drive up the freeway, get off at Mounts Bay Road, cruise up through St Georges Terrace and park near Thomas Rd. Walk 15 mins. It's the most convenient option for me. How does some c*cksucker get off telling me what's best for me? At the moment, there is no train line near me. Soon there will be, but if trains come by every 30 minutes (as they do on Sundays on every other line), and I have to spend 10 minutes transferring in the city, i'm basically losing at least half an hour each way, maybe up to an hour. And quadruple the pain in the arse factor for families who have to organise kids to do a lot more than just pile into a car. It's not the money, it's the hassle. For the rare Friday night games, I just get a train from the city to Subi. Because it's the most convenient option.


If you think at $20,000 per multistorey carpark bay a Cockburn stadium will bave 20,000 car parks, well your're dreaming.

Well, they're dreaming if they think they're going to put 60,000 bums on seats if there's only parking for 5,000. I'll go regardless, but i'm a hard core fan. For the average family, it's a lot easier to jump in the car. It's simply the way Perth is. We aren't London were the train system is everywhere and trains come by every 2 minutes, where parking is so much at a premium that just entering the city by car costs you $15. A stadium for Perth needs to take into account the Perth lifestyle, not the lifestyle of any other city. Hell, even our new train lines are based on the car. A pathetic 8 stations between Perth and Mandurah (about 10 km between each station), and all have monster carparks designed for people to drive there first. You could be living right next to the train line and still be an hours walk from the closest station.

D*ckheads said the same thing about Telstra Stadium. Don't worry about carparking they said, just make sure it's got good train access. And now that it's built it takes a massive, massive event to fill it. Even the state of origin the other day still couldn't fill it, it was 10,000 below capacity. And the average NRL match, empty seats outnumber spectators about 8 to 1.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting public transport access should be anything other than a major consideration. But these d*ckheads that put no effort into doing the same for car parking are just ensuring acres of empty seats. Make it harder for people to go to the footy and more people just won't go.
Think about it, how successful do you think a business would be if it started telling it's prospective customers what they wanted and ignoring the bulk of their wishes?

[funkyfreo]

I go to the footy with my husband and 3 kids aged 7, 9, 11. It's cheaper for us to drive and pay $10 for parking - not to mention the convenience factor - than it is to catch the train and pay fares each way. It's also safer to put my kids in the car, with seat belts, than to take them on the train in the crush and the rush after a game.
.

:D:D:D:D heads aside;)

a family rider, that will take 2 adults and 5 concessions to the footy and back only costs $7.50.

Inner city stadiums are the way to go.

[funkyfreo]

Th. At the moment, I drive up the freeway, get off at Mounts Bay Road, cruise up through St Georges Terrace and park near Thomas Rd. Walk 15 mins. It's the most convenient option for me. How does some c*cksucker get off telling me what's best for me? At the moment, there is no train line near me. Soon there will be, but if trains come by every 30 minutes (as they do on Sundays on every other line), and I have to spend 10 minutes transferring in the city, i'm basically losing at least half an hour each way, maybe up to an hour. And quadruple the pain in the arse factor for families who have to organise kids to do a lot more than just pile into a car. It's not the money, it's the hassle. For the rare Friday night games, I just get a train from the city to Subi. Because it's the most convenient option.


but that is the point. Everyone will just do what is most convenient in the future too. Just a higher percentage will find it easier to go by train. Even with carparks, the Subiaco road network cannot cope with a bigger stadium, so a Subiaco proposal HAS to be based on public transport.

also, they always put extra trains on for the footy. it is never half an hour between trains for the footy.

Like anyone, you get to the footy as you like, depending on time, convenience and enjoyment. Some choose train, some choose car, others go with convenience. When it is more convenient to train, parking taken into consideration, then more people will use the train.

And a stadium for the future has to take into account the perth of the future - new urban densities inner city etc etc. Perth sprawl will not continue as it has done for so long.

[spitlizard]

A 60 000 seat stadium within 10 years.

Woo hoo, we are such forward thinkers in WA!!!!!

[Freo Shark]

The whole plan lacks vision and smacks of catering for the weezils.

The parking issue is just another problem that the plan doesnt address. Although it doesnt appear to reduce the existing parking area.

The bottom line to all this is Subi is too small. The last re-development was supposed to last 20yrs and yet we filled it in 2yrs. Is 60,000 going to be enough in 2011 ? You are going to have to rebuild Subi at some stage and then what buyback the houses\land you've sold twice previously ?

Then what add another tier around the ground and include oxygen masks and binoculars in those tickets, exclude people of a certain size from going because the seats only cover one cheek ?

[Rob]

Like anyone, you get to the footy as you like, depending on time, convenience and enjoyment. Some choose train, some choose car, others go with convenience. When it is more convenient to train, parking taken into consideration, then more people will use the train.


Completely true. But you're assuming that if someone doesn't/can't drive, they're going to get there by some alternative means. IMO, if you restrict parking, a lot of people simply won't go at all. Especially families.

In a city like Perth, parking and car access is at least as important, if not more important than train access. Ignore it and you're basically saying to those people that choose to drive "Get stuffed, either come to the footy the way we want to you come or f**k off"
No business in the country would get away with that.

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

I like the artists impression of the new Cockburn stadium in today's West. It's a photo of Sydney's Olympic stadium -- pre the reconfiguration where it could accomodate 110,000.

[Rob]

I like the artists impression of the new Cockburn stadium in today's West. It's a photo of Sydney's Olympic stadium -- pre the reconfiguration where it could accomodate 110,000.

Yeah, I saw that. Good to see the standard of journalism at the west hasn't changed.