When to redevelop AAMI?

[crows98]

The Western Australian football commission announced today a $235 million dollar (http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=268491) redevelopment of Subiaco oval.

In the late 1990’s the SANFL altered the look of Football Park by building a new Northern grandstand and increased the capacity of AAMI stadium (formally football Park) by 7000 seats. In 2002 the SANFL removed the aluminium benches with the plastic seating that’s reduced the capacity of the stadium change by 2500 odd seats, my question is:

How long is a reasonable time frame before the SANFL increases Football Park to stay in touch with the other sporting venues in Australia? The Adelaide Football Club would have no trouble filling a 65,000 – 70,000 seat venue but would the South Australian government help out.

I believe that we are currently one of the major market leaders in Australian Rules football but if we don’t stay competitive with different market treads in 10 years time we will be left behind. AAMI stadium should have it capacity increase again to 70,000 with in the next 6 or 7 years so we can stay competitive. I can see that having a major impact on how South Australia is viewed as a football destination.

I seriously cannot see anything like this happening in the next 10 – 15 years

[understudy]

Hard to justify with 20,000 crowds port register.

Freo get big crowds so much easier to justify at subi expansion.

[crackerjack4000]

crows98 i agree its holding us back a bit. How long do we stick at 50k?

[PAFC2004]

Hard to justify with 20,000 crowds port register.

Freo get big crowds so much easier to justify at subi expansion.

Our crowds are generally better than that, and the current figures are poor because certain (questionable) supporters refuse to turn up when the team doesn't put much effort in...

That aside, I think the amenities at the ground need to be updated before seating capacity is increased.

[Capitalist]

crows98 i agree its holding us back a bit. How long do we stick at 50k?

maybe when we actually get 50k on a regular basis

my vote would be upgrading the surrounding infrastructure first

[crackerjack4000]

maybe when we actually get 50k on a regular basis

my vote would be upgrading the surrounding infrastructure first

If the games sold out its sold out. You'll always get that natural rate of people who cant make it

[crows98]

Hard to justify with 20,000 crowds port register.

Freo get big crowds so much easier to justify at subi expansion.

If the WCE, Fremantle and a few Victorian clubs have the ability to draw 65,000 members and we don’t do anything to stay in touch, economically we will get left behind.

That’s up to them to find a way of increasing there membership. I understand that it hard to justify spending such a large amount of money but we have to worry about how we can stay competitive, not be held back because of a club cannot draw more than 25,000 on a regular basis.

[afc9798]

Our crowds are generally better than that, and the current figures are poor because certain (questionable) supporters refuse to turn up when the team doesn't put much effort in...

That aside, I think the amenities at the ground need to be updated before seating capacity is increased.

Agree that seating capacity isn't the issue. Even the sold out games aren't actually attracting a full crowd as many don't turn up. We generally get 42-45,000, so capacity isn't the immediate concern.

Raising the quality of the ground's facilities, improving the appearance of the cold concrete facade and extending the undercover areas should be the first priority. The ground itself is and always has been first class, but the exterior surrounds make it look and feel cold as hell. Also better and more diverse catering would be a big improvement, as the food sucks and by the time you get to your seat, it's already cold.

[crows98]

maybe when we actually get 50k on a regular basis

my vote would be upgrading the surrounding infrastructure first

If we have a capacity of 25,000, I highly doubt all 25,000 would turn up.

Currently we have a capacity of 54,000 and really 54,000 turn up. It’s not like we are struggling to attracting interest in buying a membership there are enough people that want to go, they just cannot get the opportunity because season ticket holder don’t turn up. Every single ticket is sold.

[Mad Dog]

hmmmm - I would like to see the current stadium filled on a regular basis first.

[Malibu#27]

Agree that seating capacity isn't the issue. Even the sold out games aren't actually attracting a full crowd as many don't turn up. We generally get 42-45,000, so capacity isn't the immediate concern.

Raising the quality of the ground's facilities, improving the appearance of the cold concrete facade and extending the undercover areas should be the first priority. The ground itself is and always has been first class, but the exterior surrounds make it look and feel cold as hell. Also better and more diverse catering would be a big improvement, as the food sucks and by the time you get to your seat, it's already cold.

I agree. Facilities is what needs the facelift.

To name a few - the PA system (which I believe is underway) .. to me this is minor.

Catering is the big issue.

I understand that we can't drink at our seat and I'm OK with that - but if we cant drink at our seats, at least make it easy and QUICK to get a beer. Restructure the bars similar to Telstra Dome/MCG, patrons walk in one door, pick up the drink they want and walk out another. Much more efficient.

Its hard to believe (me being a port sup[porter and having smaller crows) - but I actually attended a final a couple years ago, and was UNABLE to get a beer in the entire length of half time.

Agree about improving undercover. Andthey have to continually look to make it more and more "accessible". ITs located away from the central city hub, hence a trip to footy park can be a journey (I drive so it doesnt affect me) ... but public transport always will be an issue.

More undercover seating would be good. And of course the food could always use a facelift.

[Mad Dog]

maybe when we actually get 50k on a regular basis

my vote would be upgrading the surrounding infrastructure first
yes indeed....:thumbsu: - undercover outer areas like food stands - bars - etc - those patrons in the outer deserve some protection from the elements and upgrade of facilities first

[crackerjack4000]

dont dream up to much guys, with those new seats going in a few yrs back nothing will be happening there for a long while.

[AdelaideFan]

Agree the facilities need some work. If you sit in the members you would no doubt have ventured down to the bar down stairs as you walk in. This area is setup very poorly. They need to make it more entertaining. The members aren't seated so there will usually be a lot of people around some time b4 the game begins. The bar offers nothing. How about at least a big screen TV showing something a little more exciting than the closed circuit television of the pre match entertainment (not usually much) but If I wanted to watch it that much I would sit at my seat. There might be another footy match on. Have a screen and show that or if its a sat night game, show before the bounce. Something anything. For legal reasons this may not be possible but it would be nice. I know you will be having a chat but its always good to be able to watch the footy. As it stands you can only do this in the crows bar. As soon as you get in there you want to leave straight away. They need to expand the bar out to the road so more people can fit in comfortably. The bar is setup in a :D:D:D:D spot there. One trip to the Telstra Dome and anyone can see how things should be done. You can sit down have a meal etc. Nothing like that offered at AAMI. Anyway thats my whinge out of the way. I love watching footy there but think we need to provide a better more entertaining environment for the punters....

[crows98]

I appreciate the need to upgrade the facilities but in 10 years time (a legitimate time frame for a project like this) and Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast all have over 65,000 members and Fremantle and St Kilda have over 55,000 and are making over $10,000,000 profit, we will still be making just over $1,000,000 with our 45,000 member we currently have.

Maybe the SANFL, the South Australian government can both chip in $300,000,000 and build a new 70,000 seat stadium. They could sell AAMI to be developed into a housing estate to help fund the new stadium.

I am just concerned that in 10 years time the Adelaide Crows will be left behind and not a powerhouse club we should be. .

[James23]

in a 2-team state we are always going to be a powerhouse as long as we stay ahead of our cross-town rivals

[crows98]

in a 2-team state we are always going to be a powerhouse as long as we stay ahead of our cross-town rivals

No we won’t

[AdelaideFan]

I appreciate the need to upgrade the facilities but in 10 years time (a legitimate time frame for a project like this) and Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast all have over 65,000 members and Fremantle and St Kilda have over 55,000 and are making over $10,000,000 profit, we will still be making just over $1,000,000 with our 45,000 member we currently have.

Maybe the SANFL, the South Australian government can both chip in $300,000,000 and build a new 70,000 seat stadium. They could sell AAMI to be developed into a housing estate to help fund the new stadium.

I am just concerned that in 10 years time the Adelaide Crows will be left behind and not a powerhouse club we should be. .

What you are saying is very far fetched but I agree 100 per cent and hope down the track this does occur. Get the location right where public transport to the ground is a lot easier and facilities like Cafes and pubs are situated around the ground. I can imagine those living around West Lakes that dont go to the footy would love this also.......

[crows98]

What you are saying is very far fetched but I agree 100 per cent and hope down the track this does occur. Get the location right where public transport to the ground is a lot easier and facilities like Cafes and pubs are situated around the ground. I can imagine those living around West Lakes that dont go to the footy would love this also.......

Of course it far fetched, its South Australia after all we don’t have foresight to investigate things like this.

It’s why we didn’t get the commonwealth game in 1998 (we lost to Kuala Lumpur) and we lost the Grand Prix and other events because we take a back seat and don’t show a spine.

[-CG-]

Having been to the telsra dome and the recently upgraded MCG, I think AAMI needs a make over. Not so much capacity, but food outlets, toilets, bars, maybe even a new fence around the oval.

[PAFC2004]

I honestly think catering would make a big difference, above many other things.

[AdelaideFan]

Of course it far fetched, its South Australia after all we don’t have foresight to investigate things like this.

It’s why we didn’t get the commonwealth game in 1998 (we lost to Kuala Lumpur) and we lost the Grand Prix and other events because we take a back seat and don’t show a spine.

Agreed

[afc9798]

I appreciate the need to upgrade the facilities but in 10 years time (a legitimate time frame for a project like this) and Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast all have over 65,000 members and Fremantle and St Kilda have over 55,000 and are making over $10,000,000 profit, we will still be making just over $1,000,000 with our 45,000 member we currently have.

Maybe the SANFL, the South Australian government can both chip in $300,000,000 and build a new 70,000 seat stadium. They could sell AAMI to be developed into a housing estate to help fund the new stadium.

I am just concerned that in 10 years time the Adelaide Crows will be left behind and not a powerhouse club we should be. .

Won't happen. The SA Govt. has already committed significant funding to AAMI and they wouldn't dream of any proposal that wasn't revolving around this stadium. It has the ability to hold more people with staged upgrades like the Northern Stand, public transport can be improved by either extending a tram or train service to the stadium and the Shopping centre. The stadium needs some life around it, so they should have a couple of glass bridges going to and from the West Lakes Mall and have the shops extend their trading hours to match the game times.

Plenty of easy things that don't cost $300 million can be done, which is why I don't think it will happen. Personally if there was a choice, I would far rather have a stadium closer to the city (and further away from Alberton;) ), but financially it doesn't stack up and Adelaide Oval will never be an option whilst it's run by dinosaurs who don't have any real vision except for cash receipts.

[Adam BK]

If we have a capacity of 25,000, I highly doubt all 25,000 would turn up.

Currently we have a capacity of 54,000 and really 54,000 turn up. It’s not like we are struggling to attracting interest in buying a membership there are enough people that want to go, they just cannot get the opportunity because season ticket holder don’t turn up. Every single ticket is sold.

We do not have a capacity of 54,000, it is 51,515.
Sources:
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums.php?id=1
http://www.sanfl.com.au/default.aspx?s=genericnewsdisplay&kw=63&aid=104028

As you said the tickets released to the public get sold out each week, theres not much that can be done about the ticket holders. In an ideal world ticket holders could sell their tickets back for a certain week,but apparently its very complicated to implement such a system. I am sure if they increased the capacity the average crowd rate would rise, due to the fact we have a waiting list. A couple thousand would still miss every week though. I would be interested how big the waiting list is and if it increasing every year. This could decide if increased seating could be possible upgrade in the future.

[Glenno23]

The Western Australian football commission announced today a $235 million dollar (http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=268491) redevelopment of Subiaco oval.

In the late 1990’s the SANFL altered the look of Football Park by building a new Northern grandstand and increased the capacity of AAMI stadium (formally football Park) by 7000 seats. In 2002 the SANFL removed the aluminium benches with the plastic seating that’s reduced the capacity of the stadium change by 2500 odd seats, my question is:

How long is a reasonable time frame before the SANFL increases Football Park to stay in touch with the other sporting venues in Australia? The Adelaide Football Club would have no trouble filling a 65,000 – 70,000 seat venue but would the South Australian government help out.

I believe that we are currently one of the major market leaders in Australian Rules football but if we don’t stay competitive with different market treads in 10 years time we will be left behind. AAMI stadium should have it capacity increase again to 70,000 with in the next 6 or 7 years so we can stay competitive. I can see that having a major impact on how South Australia is viewed as a football destination.

I seriously cannot see anything like this happening in the next 10 – 15 years

i just heard on the radio, that a commision has looked into the plan for the redevelopment, and that there is major flaws in it.

for it to be approved, they want the stadium to be able to host AFL, Cricket, Soccer and Union. on the proposal it is only for AFL

the second problem they have is public transport. if they are to increase the capacity of the ground, they would have to improve the public transport system that runs by subi, to allow for more spectators, apparentley, there is no room for this to happen.

so who knows what will happen

[- PC -]

Just a few comments

I think the reason Footy Pk isnt filled has to do with Cat 1 ? members who go to both games Port and Crows. It seems to me that some go mainly to port and some mainly to Crows.

The other issue is ''general public'' tickets. How many casual fans struggle to get entry yet still see those empty seats?

If you increase the seating who will get the major allocation? Members , corporate or general public?

The SANFL own FP outright so any costs would have to bb begged borrowed or stolen from the State Gov. But if the SANFL were willing to go out on a limb just a quick analysis sees it can be done

10,000 new seats @ $220 a seat per year =$2,2Million a year x 10 years = $22million .

Or

5,000 seats at $220 a year = $11Million a decade

5,000 seats at $30 a seat x 22 = $3.3Million a year or $33 million a decade
which is $44Million a decade

Plus associated catering revenue , parking etc etc.

I am sure someone with a better grasp of finances will point out my errors.

[SpringChoke]

Of course it far fetched, its South Australia after all we don’t have foresight to investigate things like this.

It’s why we didn’t get the commonwealth game in 1998 (we lost to Kuala Lumpur) and we lost the Grand Prix and other events because we take a back seat and don’t show a spine.

In our defense, a city of just over 1 million doesn't stand a chance aginst a city of just over 7 mill.

[-CG-]

Just a few comments

I think the reason Footy Pk isnt filled has to do with Cat 1 ? members who go to both games Port and Crows. It seems to me that some go mainly to port and some mainly to Crows.

The other issue is ''general public'' tickets. How many casual fans struggle to get entry yet still see those empty seats?



I reckon get rid of at least one bay thats for the members and let that be general public or whatever.

[relapse]

We do not have a capacity of 54,000, it is 51,515.
Sources:
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums.php?id=1
http://www.sanfl.com.au/default.aspx?s=genericnewsdisplay&kw=63&aid=104028

As you said the tickets released to the public get sold out each week, theres not much that can be done about the ticket holders. In an ideal world ticket holders could sell their tickets back for a certain week,but apparently its very complicated to implement such a system. I am sure if they increased the capacity the average crowd rate would rise, due to the fact we have a waiting list. A couple thousand would still miss every week though. I would be interested how big the waiting list is and if it increasing every year. This could decide if increased seating could be possible upgrade in the future.

I believe that the waiting list hovers around the 5k mark. This obviously isnt a true reflection of how many extra people would actually purchase tickets if they were available.

I think if the capacity was increased 70k would be enough. I believe we could easily have 55k+ members (we are nearly at 50k as it is) and have about 15k matchday tickets available.

The thing that really sucks is that people just cant turn up to a crows game if they feel like going, like they can in Melbourne. I just hope that we apply for the Commonwealth Games that way Football Park will get extended to 85k due to that.

The major problem is always the dinosaurs that run the SANFL. Whicker and Basheer are stuck in the 80s.

[drakeyv2]

I've said it before & I will say it again.

We arn't big enough to support both Adelaide Oval & Footy Park & keep both at an acceptable standard.

Idealy Adelaide Oval would be upgraded (read torn down & rebuilt) as a state of the art 60-70,000 seater & be used for footy, cricket & any other major sport.

Footy Park would be sold off for housing.

Wont happen but it should.

[PrideOf]

Agree with most about upgrading facilities.

But if there was going to be $235 million spent on Footy Park, I'd want them to put the train line in or even underground car parking.

[Leaping Lindner]

I've said it before & I will say it again.

We arn't big enough to support both Adelaide Oval & Footy Park & keep both at an acceptable standard.

Idealy Adelaide Oval would be upgraded (read torn down & rebuilt) as a state of the art 60-70,000 seater & be used for footy, cricket & any other major sport.

Footy Park would be sold off for housing.

Wont happen but it should.

It won't happen because the next time the SACA have a tantrum about something or other the SANFL will be screwed. It was why Footy Park was built in the first place.

[MJ101]

Agree with all that say ammenities upgrade is the most important thing rather than capacity.

Lets face it, the food is crap and the lines for everything are awful. I remember reading an article in the advertiser a while back now discussing the issue regarding public transport and AAMI stadium. What was basically said is that Yankee stadium was built a long time before any of the subway system existed. They were able to develop around what existed to get in and clear out huge masses of people within half an hour. Perhaps this should be looked at.

I think the general facility we have there is not to bad. Potentially increasing the appeal is the way to go. Eg catering, transport to and from, parking, visual appeal etc. Ripping it down and starting again would definatley not occur with the government the way it is and those in charge of the SANFL etc.

I get the feeling the government would be more likely to thro money at Adelaide oval rather than footy park at the moment due to its location and history. It may also appeal top the government for Adelaide United to eventually (5-10yrs) move to adelaide oval rather than upgrade hindmarsh (again) leaqving footy park further back down the list.

Complex, annoying issue isn't it?

[Mad Dog]

only way you will get a commitment for State Govt funding is during an election year......and without that it wont happen........business knows that the current capacity is about what the market is demanding atm

[RussellEbertHandball]

Getting back to SA to watch 2 to 4 games a year, I’d say that the facilities need a decent upgrade. I think Footy Park is a good place to watch footy and the facilities/service is on par with the SCG, but are way behind the newer stadiums like the Olympic Stadium, MCG, Docklands and the Gabba. The problem is that the return on investment in new facilities will be minimal, so the SANFL will probably baulk at this.

Over the last 15 years, the cost of a major redevelopment or building a new stadium in Australia varies between $2k and $8k per seat. So an increase of 20,000 seats could cost around $50m if done on the cheap, but likely to be around $100+m.

Perth has about 400k more people than Adelaide so it makes sense that they have at least one 50+k stadium. Brisbane has around 600k more people than Adelaide and Lang Park is only 55k.

If the SANFL and/or Crows want a 70k stadium and want the government to pay for it, then they should spend a couple of million dollars and recruit the best people from SOCOG + AOC + Melb 2006 and make a successful bid to win the 2018 or 2022 Commonwealth Games. That’s the only way I can see the government, both federal and state, lending/donating the money to develop the ground to 70k combined with major improvements in the facilities.

[drakeyv2]

It won't happen because the next time the SACA have a tantrum about something or other the SANFL will be screwed. It was why Footy Park was built in the first place.

That's why the SACA have to be turfed out.

The fact is it would only happen if both SACA & SANFL were removed from the decision making process.

[RussellEbertHandball]

In our defense, a city of just over 1 million doesn't stand a chance aginst a city of just over 7 mill.

The bid failed more because of politics than population. The only other Comm Games before 1998 held in the developing world was in Jamacia in 1966. The Games had to be held somewhere else other than Canada, UK, NZ or Oz, to maintain it's relevance. The 1994 Games were held in Victoria, Canada, which has a pop of about 300k. The front runners for 2014 are Halifax and Edinburgh which both have a pop of less than 500k.

[raikkonen]

I agree with what someone else has said on here, by building a totally new stadium. Ideal location would be out North near the Velodrome, and the state Hockey centre, give us a sort of Homebush theme. Such a proposal would certainly be beneficial to any bid for Commonwealth games action.

There is no doubt as to whether or not AFC could seel more tickets to their games. 60,000 could be sold each match one would feel. The thing holding us back is the fact PAFC do not pull the big crowds that would warrant it from their position.

[ajbau]

why cant they just upgrade the entire ground ike the northern stand but extending it all around the ground?