View Full Version : Big Nick Backs Pagan!
BrizzyBlue
26 May 2006, 03:19
After a week of damage control by the club that has got the doubters saying we have our own mutual admiration society, it is refreshing to see Big John come out and really support Denis and the current Board. Tell me this is contrived! :cool:
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,19257630%255E19742,00.html (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,19257630%255E19742,00.html)
bluey blue
26 May 2006, 03:57
After a week of damage control by the club that has got the doubters saying we have our own mutual admiration society, it is refreshing to see Big John come out and really support Denis and the current Board. Tell me this is contrived! :cool:
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,19257630%255E19742,00.html (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,19257630%255E19742,00.html)
Thanks, its good to see some comon sense been aired !!! Lets suport the young kids in their growth. This is hurting us so much that the rise will taste so sweet and we will never take our grandness for granted again. Long live the MIGHTY BLUES!!!!
AlecDuncan
26 May 2006, 11:33
After a week of damage control by the club that has got the doubters saying we have our own mutual admiration society, it is refreshing to see Big John come out and really support Denis and the current Board. Tell me this is contrived! :cool:
Big Nick is spot on. Most of our on-field problems pre-date Pagan, and most of our financial ones pre-date Ian Collins. Don't blame the people trying to clean the mess up, blame the people who made it in the first place.
Parko tried to top up after '95, which was optimistic, but not stupid. By 2001 though, that strategy was a looming disaster - in retrospect. None of us predicted the year we had in 2002, but we're all wise after the fact. Add to that Brittain's "peculiar" judgement of talent (Sean O'Keefe was a major talent?) for the icing.
Nick's right about the Legends stand too. I remember people warning Elliott about building the Legends stand, but when they decided to do this, Docklands was just a dump you went to to pick up shipping containers. However, I find it hard to believe that Mike Fitzpatrick didn't tell board members about his plans for Docklands Stadium.
It sounds like typical bluff, bloody-mindedness by Elliott to go ahead with the ground improvements anyway, but what were the rest of the board thinking?
SA Blue
26 May 2006, 11:55
I think there are 2 important points from the article.
1. Carlton are to blame for their current predicament. A lot of Carlton people are resentful to the AFL and like to blame others, but realistically it is our own fault. The AFL fines just compounded our own mistakes.
2. The current regime is doing it’s best in a bad situation. I think Pagan is the man for the job at the moment. If we had another inexperienced coach (even one of our own ie. Ratts), I don’t think our results would be different and the media would be hounding them much harder than they are Pagan which would further destabilise the club.
Pagan’s strength in this situation is one of the best things for the club. You may not always agree with everything they do, but even if we were successful we wouldn’t always agree.
saint13
26 May 2006, 12:02
I think there are 2 important points from the article.
1. Carlton are to blame for their current predicament. A lot of Carlton people are resentful to the AFL and like to blame others, but realistically it is our own fault. The AFL fines just compounded our own mistakes.
2. The current regime is doing it’s best in a bad situation. I think Pagan is the man for the job at the moment. If we had another inexperienced coach (even one of our own ie. Ratts), I don’t think our results would be different and the media would be hounding them much harder than they are Pagan which would further destabilise the club.
Pagan’s strength in this situation is one of the best things for the club. You may not always agree with everything they do, but even if we were successful we wouldn’t always agree.
does this sort of remind you of when tim watson was at st kilda, although hes not one of there own
SA Blue
26 May 2006, 12:06
does this sort of remind you of when tim watson was at st kilda, although hes not one of there own
I think that is a good example. Imagine trying to get sponsors and coprorate backing if the coach was under that type of pressure
What finally fixed St Kilda was the maturing of their kids, some astute trading and a settled board which fixed their off field troubles. As much as it pains me to say, we can learn something from that.
saint13
26 May 2006, 12:10
I think that is a good example. Imagine trying to get sponsors and coprorate backing if the coach was under that type of pressure
What finally fixed St Kilda was the maturing of their kids, some astute trading and a settled board which fixed their off field troubles. As much as it pains me to say, we can learn something from that.
mmm, yeah the mind boggles:rolleyes:
igt22265
26 May 2006, 12:12
Big Nick is spot on. Most of our on-field problems pre-date Pagan, and most of our financial ones pre-date Ian Collins. Don't blame the people trying to clean the mess up, blame the people who made it in the first place.
Parko tried to top up after '95, which was optimistic, but not stupid. By 2001 though, that strategy was a looming disaster - in retrospect. None of us predicted the year we had in 2002, but we're all wise after the fact. Add to that Brittain's "peculiar" judgement of talent (Sean O'Keefe was a major talent?) for the icing.
Nick's right about the Legends stand too. I remember people warning Elliott about building the Legends stand, but when they decided to do this, Docklands was just a dump you went to to pick up shipping containers. However, I find it hard to believe that Mike Fitzpatrick didn't tell board members about his plans for Docklands Stadium.
It sounds like typical bluff, bloody-mindedness by Elliott to go ahead with the ground improvements anyway, but what were the rest of the board thinking?
I actually remember the original plan was to increse capacity to 43,000 and it was vetoed by the council, and state government, but in those days,
Carlton was its own master, so they thought, and bashed ahead,
a plan b.
Ya gotta remember Elliott in those days was 'Fosterising' the world,
and with the clout he thought he had, would always threaten the AFL with Supreme Court (read Platten clearance in 1986, very nearly bankrupted the then VFL in legal fees, while 8 other clubs were on their knees), so barged ahead, made deals with conflicting AFL sponsors, and built a grandstand with his name on it, set up a deal with Optus and PayTV, then underwrote non Carlton games - more than the proposed Telstra games.
Basically Carlton said to the AFL, f**k you, we are a standalone club,
even though your Collingwoods and Essendons could see what was happening and moved into line with AFL especially after the Nine Deal in 2000. Nah, but not us, John decided that the nine deal wasn't good enough, and still went ahead with the pay TV crap. So the AFL says bugger you, we have our own super beaut ground down at Docklands, we are cashed to the bejusus, you wannat threaten us with SC, go ahead. This is around the time one of the minions said "Hang on, we might be in the :D:D:D:D:D"
Then he (Elliott) went bust,
and quite literally took the whole lot of us down with him, (read salary cap, brown paper bags in the Fenwick)
as the club was his own little play thing.
Thats is a bit general, but as Nick said, the debt is grandstands.
I hate the pr!ck (Jack).
But i guess we were all fooled.
darren waitee
26 May 2006, 13:38
great to see Nick tell it as it is media always bash Collins and Pagan for no good reason do you blame the fire fighters for putting out a fire or the bloke who lit it Elliott like everything he has done in business and at carlton ran the club his way pig headed and listened to no one than when it all went belly up he said i know nothing nothing but a gutless pig and hopefully every dog has his day pagan is the same he will urn it around given time we should have re built after 95 but parkin wanted one more year everyone would be advised to remember that the people at the club at the moment and Collins had nothing to do where we are now and should have our full surport
yer well done nicky boy, good to see some common sense come out of some1 from the club.
how about all u narrow minded peope with no real knowlege about footy back of pagan and the club as a whole
blue_bhoy
26 May 2006, 17:53
Everyone hates Jack now, but back in the day we all used to love the 'stick it up the AFL' attitude :(
shagger
26 May 2006, 18:05
After a week of damage control by the club that has got the doubters saying we have our own mutual admiration society, it is refreshing to see Big John come out and really support Denis and the current Board. Tell me this is contrived! :cool:
OK. This is contrived.
The Old Dark Navy's
26 May 2006, 19:01
Everyone hates Jack now, but back in the day we all used to love the 'stick it up the AFL' attitude :(I never liked the attitude. Always thought it would come back and bite us. Jack was loud and boorish and embarrassing but it was performances that counted and we were performing .... seemingly.
igt22265
26 May 2006, 23:03
Everyone hates Jack now, but back in the day we all used to love the 'stick it up the AFL' attitude :(
Totally correct!
TheBlueblood
27 May 2006, 05:09
Ok i wont get on Mr Pagans back for the rest of the year...due to the great man!!!
Just wish hed say to the team "Hey our forward line is sweet"
"how bout we get it to em 1-1 inside 50"
saint13
27 May 2006, 12:56
Ok i wont get on Mr Pagans back for the rest of the year...due to the great man!!!
Just wish hed say to the team "Hey our forward line is sweet"
"how bout we get it to em 1-1 inside 50"
i hear you:thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu: