Death

[The Hitman]

I bring this up, because I have just lost a friend of mine from school, and naturally, when things like this happen, you think about your own position on this very mysterious, sad, and sometimes scary subject.

The fact that my friend had just finished year 12, with everything ahed of him, and died because something which had never afflicted him, it just makes it harder to fathom.

Anyway, to the point. What are your thoughts on death? Are you scared of it? What happens when it happens? Do you believe in reincarnation? How do you handle when others die? Do you bring upon your own demise, or is there a 'grand plan' which seals your fate?

Personally, I am so scared of death. For one, I don't believe in God or reincarnation, and I don't think there is a 'grand plan'. So for me, death is the end. As much as I might say "life sucks" or whatever, I want to live. I never want to die, whether it now, in 30 years, or in 90 years.

Maybe I'm letting out all my insecurities, but it's a subject that's always kind of haunted me. I remember when I was little (say 8, 9) I used to lie in bed at night, and be scared to go to sleep, fearing I would die.

So many questions, so few answers - such a final and miserable result.

Feel free to add your thoughts...

The Hitman

[play on]

Once you die, that is it. I do not believe in god, and hate it so much when those Bible bashers come to the door. No god, no reincarnation.

Death does not scare me. Why worry about something that is not in my control? Death is going to happen to me regardless of if I want it to or not, so why worry?

I have never had a friend of mine die, so I am not sure how I would feel if it happened. I predict that I would be shocked, and be a little quiet, but not absolutely devastated, but I can't say that for sure, and I will never know for sure how I will feel until it happens.

I would be absolutely devastated if my Mum died as she is the one who has raised me, and I am not sure how I would cope if anything was to happen. That is something I can say with 100% certainty.

I do know of a couple of people who have died. I know of two people, and both times, I felt a little shocked, but after the first few minutes of learning of these deaths, it has just been a typical day, and I have been the same as any other day. I was not really affected too much, as these people who died were not friends.

[Dave]

Me? I tend not to worry about my own death. Why worry over something I have no control over? I DO worry about my family however as I don't know if I could handle living if they died.

As for Life after death etc, who knows for sure? The scientific side of me says that this is it, one shot and that's all, but the superstitious side of me says "what if.....". I guess deep down inside all of us there still exists a caveman of sorts!

One thing's certain though, life IS precious so be careful with yours :)

edit: fixed up grammar :eek:

[Bee]

I don't know what happens when you die. I don't know if Heaven exists or not.
Being brought up Catholic I suppose I should believe in the existence of a "better life" and the existence of God and Heaven. But I have an open mind about it. I don't believe one way or the other.

One thing I definitely don't believe in is reincarnation. I can't see how it is possible for the soul of a dead person to enter the body of a new born. Two completely different lives. I think reincarnation or previous lives is total crap.

Am I afraid to die? Probably more afraid of the unknown than actually dying itself. Although when it happens I hope it is peaceful and natural and not violent or caused through some type of accident.

The one thing about dying I am absolutely terrified of, is being shut in a coffin. I am claustrophobic and the thought of being locked in a small confined space like that scares the $hit out of me. You might think that is stupid, because being dead I wouldn't know about it. But trust me it terrifies me. I actually think more about that, than dying.

The thought of people close to me dying worries me more though than my own death. I am not sure how I will cope if something happens to my family. My family are very close, and I think it would devastate me if something happened.

I come from an Irish background, and the Irish tend to treat death as a "celebration" of life. I have been to wakes, which always seem to lessen the sadness and feeling of loss that the person has gone. Even so, the feeling that death is final doesn't go away.

Though I don't have an opinion either way on what happens when you die, I would like to think that they are still around somewhere not too far away.

[Gonzo]

I love the quote from an SAS soldier:

"Death doesn't scare me, it's the 5 seconds right before it that's got me worried"

Cheers

Gonzo

[Dave]

Originally posted by Bee
Though I don't have an opinion either way on what happens when you die, I would like to think that they are still around somewhere not too far away.

Sounds like a sci-fi series I read recently "Night's Dawn" by Peter E Hamilton.......

[The Hitman]

Some good answers so far.

I understand what you mean about the coffin thing BTW Bee. I used to lie there, and try to imagine myself dead in a coffin, not moving, speaking, blinking, as if I were dead. When I die, I'm gonna be cremated anyway. I don't like the idea of worms or anything getting to me underground, so cremation is for me.

I know it may seem selfish to be scared of death, but that said, I owuld die for many people. I'd die for my mother, my god-son how ironic, I am a god-father, yet I don't believe i n God...), the girl I like at the moment who is a close friend...plus more.

Keep the interesting answers coming...

The Hitman

[roobear]

Firstly, sorry to hear about the death of your friend. I hope his family and friends are ok.

I don't want to die, either. I'm nearly 30 and I want to still be around when I'm 90. I love life so much I don't want to know the alternatives.

That being said, I'm not afraid to die. I can't control it, and I know it's going to happen one day. I think I can honestly say that if I was in a situation of certain death (eg plane out of control), I would be at peace. I have no regrets about the way I've lived my life, and if I don't achieve everything I've set for myself, there are reasons.

The afterlife question is a tough one. I was brought up Catholic, and I have maintained most of my Christian beliefs. I know there is every possible chance we die and that's it. I just find it hard to believe that we can be so multi-dimensional, with our thoughts, conscience, understanding, quest for knowledge, and then everything's over. I hope there is more to it, but there's only one way to find out... and I ain't ready for it yet.

[Frodo]

This is quite a subject and according to Gail Sheehee's 'Passages' has different viewpoints and importance at various stages in life. Certainly as an 18 year old I had no problems with death and even tried to enlist to go to Vietnam for the experience. I ddid not really think about death in my child rearing years but a couple of years ago the 'mortality' question really hit me. Yes I am afraid of death. I know it will happen and those that say 'If you can't do anything about it why worry' are perfectly correct. My real fear is that the athiest view be correct and that after life there s 'nothing'. To me there must be a reason for existence otherwise creation itself is a farce. But I don't know. I see muslims being suicide bombe, believing that they will have a special place in heaven and think that it must be brainwashing. Christans are no better although their crusades to purge their sould happenned 500 years earlier.

So what is there that can lead us to any concusion :-

1) If we knew that there was an afterlife and it was fantastic we may increase the suicide rate enormously, so keeping it from us may be rational.
2) Materialism includes time. If we are on this material world for a task then it was important that time be a factor just in exactly the way that an exam has a time perod. I t is threfore quite possible that outside of materiaism time does not exist and that everything is really in the same instant,
3) The queston of the 'unmoving mover' cannot be answered in any othe way than with a creator ie God
4) We cannot doubt the existence of Jesus and miracles. There is too much anectotal evidence
5) There are people inculuding my Father who have had religios experiences. At 55 and not going to church for decades he claims Jesus appeared to him as a normal person in his lounge and had a chat to him.
6) Those with faith live without fear. I envy them of that whether their faith is a reality or not.
7) Despite Darwinian theories it is fact that man differs from animal in that it has a conscience and has to daily decide on right from wrong.
8) Material is energy, whether a brick, a tree or a person. Everything is comprised of protons, neutrons and electrons. I may then be concluded that spirit or soul is some kind of energy force too.

Well there are more but those 8 are debatable for sure.

[Bee]

Hitman, it's not so much lying in the coffin. As long as it is open, I don't care. When they put the lid on the bloody thing is what scares me. Seriously!

This subject is a bit morbid so to lighten it up a few Irish blessings on death. As only the Irish can!

A toast to your coffin
May it be made from 100 year old oak
And may we plant the tree together tomorrow.

May you live forever,
And may the last words you hear be mine.

May your glass be ever full,
May the roof over your head be always strong,
And may you be in Heaven
And hour before the devil knows your dead.

[kristin5]

The subject of Death has been on my mind a lot in recent months. Starting with the death of one of the closest people in my life, my Nan. I have never been so sad, and I still find myself crying a lot. It's hard to come to terms with the fact that I will never see her again, will never hear her say "I'm so proud of you" again, and she will never know any children I might have.

I had barely recovered from her passing, and my Opa (grandfather) died. Whilst we weren't as close as I got older, I remember many good times with him when I was a kid.

These deaths, particularly that of my Nan, caused me to think a lot about Death. I'm very scared about dying, because I don't know what to expect. I know nobody really knows, and that's what I don't like - I hate surprises! I do hope there is an afterlife - this thought keeps me going in my sad times. I like to believe that my Nan is always with me and watching over me. For instance, when I go to visit her grave there is always a magpie standing nearby - I like to think it's her (or at least, her spirit/soul). I realise that this is probably stupid, but it's the way I am dealing with it all.

[Bulldog1954]

Deaths a bummer

[Leia]

I don't think it's death itself that i am scared of, it is more the process of dying (as in Gonzo's quote).

The idea of not actually living, of there being nothing more, is something that i find really difficult to truly grasp, but being an atheist, it's what i believe the outcome will be. I have to admit i have also had the thought cross my mind that if i am wrong i am going to be in big trouble (to put it mildly).

But as much as i don't want to die yet, there is no way i would want to live for ever either. personally i can't think of a more frightening thought than never facing death. just wondering what your thoughts on that were?

[Joe Mama]

Death doesn't worry me at all because I see the passage of life and death all the time (I used to live on my grandpa's dairy farm in Woolert, and I work on my dad's farm part time).

And when you see calves being born and cattle dying from various reasons, you often ask questions about your own mortality, and that's when I came to this conclusion.

Make sure that you have fulfilled all (or most) that you possibly can out of life, and that you have left an endearing legacy on those closest to you when you do leave this world(hopefully for all of us when we're old and content).

Although your friend's loss must be a horrible time for you Hitman, I know what you're feeling right now, I've lost a cousin through suicide a few years ago when he was only 21, but like Bee said, celebrate life, it's the most excellent thing you will ever have, you will only really discover that when it's been taken away from a loved one.


I hope this helps

[joffa_pies4ever]

Nothing to be scared about, it will come to us all some sooner some later.

But to those who flatly dont believe in GOD i hope yous are ok with that decision (nothing sissy with believing in and loving god) because your journey into the next life will be for an eternity.

Death should not be your worry, instaed are we worthy enough to be in the presence of GOD on our way to our next journey.

[iceman]

i for one believe that there is something after we die - i wouldnt say im terrified but i do get worried about what would happen to me after i die

will i remember my life??, what will happen to me after death?? etc

however, these questions will never be answered until it happens :(

[Mooster7]

I'm a Christian. I won't berate, nor Bible thump you. Fact is, I'm not the least bit afraid of death. I'm not in a hurry to get to the front of the line. I'm having a good time right now.

Don't get me wrong, I've stared death in the face a few times, and practically crapped myself doing so. It's that I don't have a chronic fear about it. Remaining calm while crapping yourself is an acquired skill through practice. ;)

I've witnessed hundreds of deaths. It's not so bad....well, sometimes the smell is. My biggest fear is dying, and no one finding the body for a few days. I've seen those too. Not pretty.

Second biggest fear about dying is having my Mother coming over to my house to organize my stuff for distribution. I never want my Ma to utter the expression, "Jeez, he's got a lot of porn." :D

[nearlyblonde]

I gather from what I`ve read that most of you are still very young (not meant to be a putdown, just that I no longer am), and I can promise you all that as the years progress, so will your thoughts on your mortality.

I can claim no wisdom to befit my advancing years, I waver between being agnostic and a complete athiest, to me if I can`t see, touch, feel or taste it I`m going to have big trouble accepting the theories of everlasting life et al.

Frodo, I have read many, very many, of your posts and have almost always found myself taking the opposite view to most of your opined works, but today I almost feel celebratory cos No. 6 of your list of 8 is one I have held true for yonks.....people with true faith are to be envied, I should be so lucky! Wouldn`t it be full of wonder not to have to grapple with all of what life throws at you all alone??

Please live it and cherish it, even your footy team getting flogged is really not the end of it all, it only seems that way at the time.

[Richmondfan#1]

Death doesn't directly worry me although it does in certain aspects of it. For example, i worry about not achieving things that i'd like to before I die, how i die and i really want to live life to the absolute fullest before i cark it.

I've had a dream before and i'm lying on my bed. It keeps rising with the floor and it reaches to the ceiling. I know i'm going to be crushed. That frightened me as I'd hate to die like that.

I think about what it is like to be dead. If it is nothing, a black hole full of nothingness. Sometimes I wish i was religious so I knew i could go somewhere safe - heaven. I could believe in going there if I were religious.

But really, I shouldn't worry about it if you just think to live life how it should be lived, to love the people around you, to not take things for granted and to have fun. That way you can die happy. Even if you do die from a freak accident, at least you were always having fun.

[vanders]

Im not so much scared of dying, Im just scared of the way its going to happen to me.

I hope to God (or whatevers out there) that my death is as painless as possible, therefore, i preferabbly would like to die in my sleep.

[aggels]

Of course, we can't pick our deaths, but I would like to know that I'm dying. a terminal illness or something. I know that sounds absolutely horrible, but the idea of just slipping away one night of old age frightens me - I don't want to just not be there the next morning, with plans made and things. I also don't want to die of some accident - car or whatever. Of course, there's no such thing as a perfect death.

I used to think a LOT about death, but now I just don't, too busy worrying about living. The thing is, I don't know what about death actually scares me. I do believe in an afterlife, although not the traditional view of heaven and hell. I think I'm a bit scared of who I'll leave behind, and what I won't have done with my life that I would have wanted to do.

[Frodo]

Originally posted by aggels
Of course, we can't pick our deaths, but I would like to know that I'm dying. a terminal illness or something. I know that sounds absolutely horrible, but the idea of just slipping away one night of old age frightens me - I don't want to just not be there the next morning, with plans made and things.

Interesting comment. I know of two couples who have passed on that kept the light in the bedroom on all night for fear of dying in the dark at night. I think that a lot of people have a fear of the dark. BTW, none died at night in their sleep.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Mooster7


Second biggest fear about dying is having my Mother coming over to my house to organize my stuff for distribution. I never want my Ma to utter the expression, "Jeez, he's got a lot of porn." :D

Easy fixed M, leave it all to me in your will! ;)

ps. if I go first you can have my stash instead, deal? :D

[Mooster7]

Deal.

[Waltzing Woof Biscuit]

Originally posted by Frodo

3) The queston of the 'unmoving mover' cannot be answered in any othe way than with a creator ie God
.

Many people prefer not to explore the concept of God because of aversions to 'Bible bashing' or 'bashers.' It's true, Christians do have a clear agenda to spread the word of God as it appears in the scriptures (this is not only a Christian phenomenon by the way). If you are truly interested in God, but are concerned about being overwhelmed by proselytisers, then there are many philosophical writings which may be of interest. The one quoted by Frodo is Aquinas's prime-mover theory from the 13th century. Any comprehensive introduction to philosophy should have a section dealing with 'God', where the most influential arguments for and against the existence of God, and debates about God's nature, will be found.

For mine, philosophical, historical and archeological proofs are an adjunct to the most important commodity of all - also mentioned by Froddo - called faith. I believe that faith in God is rational - in fact, you could say that I have faith that faith is rational, although by definition a belief that anything is rational must have a logical element to it.

Also, and this is particularly for Hitman, there are many writings about the irrationality of fearing death (read into stoicism, also Wittgenstein's 'Tractatus.') This stuff is cold comfort when grieving for someone else, but in terms of reflecting upon your own mortality, it may help you to develop a comforting perspective about it.

And if you work through these things intellectually, then you may gravitate to things of a more spiritual nature. We're all in the same leaky boat Hitter - you can find warmth and empathy in the way that others have articulated the concerns that are cascading through your mind :)

[Mooster7]

Does Mooster get phillosophical? Nah.

In my opinion, the worst thing to happen to Western society was the worship of logic, mathematics & science. The big three. The Greeks did it to us. These are only tools that can take you so far. Just like a Jr. High girl, if they go all the way, you can bet something is wrong.

Wonderful advances in medicine and other technology have come about using the big three. So have some horrors.

On a day to day basis, it is necessary to use your mind, logic etc to get by. That's the best you can do. That's what your mind is for - a tool. It isn't who you are, and you can't use it to discover who you are. To do that, you have to "turn it off."

Realities don't unfold in mathematical algorithms. At best, they only have a tendency to do so. If science fails to explain the fundamental aspects of what we call reality, isn't it a very poor idea to use science to "dis-explain" God?

A "Western" approach to the Bible is doomed to failure. It only leads to discrepancies. If anything, if the Bible is the mind of God, then God has a more "Oriental" mind (I know "oriental" isn't PC). Take that approach, and you'll be surprised at, not only what you can learn, but you will have a clearer understanding of what is taking place around you on a daily basis.

Still, it wil never explain what happened to the KC Chiefs this year. That's another mystery I'll be asking God when I get there. Peace,

Mooster

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Frodo
7) Despite Darwinian theories it is fact that man differs from animal in that it has a conscience and has to daily decide on right from wrong.

I dunno about that. Here's an example.

Tiger cubs. One of them decides to do some sparring with you, another tiger cub. Do you as the other cub

a) Spar back
b) Try to kill him?

If its your brother, probably spar back, or growl a lot so they'll piss off. If its a tiger from somewhere else....you have a real decision to make. You could kill, or you could let both of you live and move on.

Sometimes animals kill, sometimes they don't. Sounds like a choice between right and wrong to me.
-------

Anyway, some thoughts re: death.

1) I figure when I die, thats it. There was nothing before I was born, so why would there be anything afterwards?

2) If there's an afterlife thats better, why bother having a life? Why even create that stage? Its like burying a chocolate cake under six foot of manure.

3) It would suck to die and have no-one know about it for some time. I still don't have a solution for if I die....how will anyone I know online know about it? They'll all just think I got bored with them, or similar.

4) I don't want to die. But if I do, well, I expect I won't know about it. The worst part about dying would be the impact it would have on people who know you, and any projects you might be involved in!!! unfinished....that'd **** me. Imagine having a conclusive response to totally trash some totally crud Dan26 argument, and having a heart attack! That'd be enough to bring me back from the dead, I reckon. Same with dying on the eve of the grand final.

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Porthos
3) It would suck to die and have no-one know about it for some time. I still don't have a solution for if I die....how will anyone I know online know about it? They'll all just think I got bored with them, or similar.


This is gonna sound utterly stupid, but I have everything written down just in case something happens to me, like a little instruction book for my mother.

It has the numbers of my friends and who to call, the HFC, organizations and stuff, and also says what I want to happen at my funeral, ashes, etc.

Call me eccentric, but if something happens, I don't wanna leave mates like PiesPremiers and DCFC wondering where on earth I am.

The Hitman

[Asgardian]

I have been able to think about death fairly closely of late, my KNOWLEDGE and BELIEFS are no different for my recent experiences.

There is no after life, there is no re-incarnation, there is no eternal life in the presence of some god, there is no heaven and hell. There is just the now, so live your life to the best of your ability, coz that's the whole book, it aint just a chapter.

So when I'm dead, that IS the end

I aint scared of death. I have lived with it for a long time, frankly I almost welcome it.

How will everyone know when I'm dead, you'll all probably hear my wife celebrating when she gets all that insurance money, lol

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Asgardian
I have been able to think about death fairly closely of late, my KNOWLEDGE and BELIEFS are no different for my recent experiences.

There is no after life, there is no re-incarnation, there is no eternal life in the presence of some god, there is no heaven and hell. There is just the now, so live your life to the best of your ability, coz that's the whole book, it aint just a chapter.

So when I'm dead, that IS the end

I aint scared of death. I have lived with it for a long time, frankly I almost welcome it.

How will everyone know when I'm dead, you'll all probably hear my wife celebrating when she gets all that insurance money, lol

Chris,
In a few decades time you can come and visit me and we wil discuss this further.

ps Please make sure you are wearing an Eagles scarf as St Peter is under strict instructions about who to let in :D

[aggels]

Originally posted by The Hitman


This is gonna sound utterly stupid, but I have everything written down just in case something happens to me, like a little instruction book for my mother.

It has the numbers of my friends and who to call, the HFC, organizations and stuff, and also says what I want to happen at my funeral, ashes, etc.

Call me eccentric, but if something happens, I don't wanna leave mates like PiesPremiers and DCFC wondering where on earth I am.

The Hitman

That's not stupid. Or at least if it is, then we're both stupid, because I have exactly the same thing. Complete with all the LITTLE things so that people won't be left wondering. My webpage and email passwords, who to tell. A list of everyone who needs to know and their phone numbers or email adresses.

I just hope that if I do die young, that someone thinks to look to find it. It's not exactly hidden, but it's not pinned up and highlighted either.

[wagstaff]

I was unsure about the question of religion a few years back but now I definitely believe that there is no God or afterlife.

I guess one of the main reasons that religion still has such a hold on the world's population is that it gives meaning to life that otherwise is hard to fathom. The more unsatisfying people find life to be, the greater likelihood that a person will turn to religion (or some related belief)

Its reassuring to think that the good will be rewarded in the afterlife when they invariably aren't in this life.

When you die, that's it. The thing is to make your life (and those around you) as meaningful as possible.

[Frodo]

Originally posted by wagstaff
When you die, that's it. The thing is to make your life (and those around you) as meaningful as possible.

Why would you want to do that? Sureley you would want to enjoy yourself as much as you could and damn everyone ese outside of your hapiness circle. Kill them if you want to and can get away wth it. There is no point in morality or ethics, these are Christian (or other religion) values. Why not just act like an animal and kill, rape etc at will to satisfy yourself?

[Waltzing Woof Biscuit]

Originally posted by Mooster7
Does Mooster get phillosophical? Nah.

In my opinion, the worst thing to happen to Western society was the worship of logic, mathematics & science. The big three. The Greeks did it to us. These are only tools that can take you so far. Just like a Jr. High girl, if they go all the way, you can bet something is wrong.

Wonderful advances in medicine and other technology have come about using the big three. So have some horrors.

On a day to day basis, it is necessary to use your mind, logic etc to get by. That's the best you can do. That's what your mind is for - a tool. It isn't who you are, and you can't use it to discover who you are. To do that, you have to "turn it off."

Realities don't unfold in mathematical algorithms. At best, they only have a tendency to do so. If science fails to explain the fundamental aspects of what we call reality, isn't it a very poor idea to use science to "dis-explain" God?

A "Western" approach to the Bible is doomed to failure. It only leads to discrepancies. If anything, if the Bible is the mind of God, then God has a more "Oriental" mind (I know "oriental" isn't PC). Take that approach, and you'll be surprised at, not only what you can learn, but you will have a clearer understanding of what is taking place around you on a daily basis.

Still, it wil never explain what happened to the KC Chiefs this year. That's another mystery I'll be asking God when I get there. Peace,

Mooster

The Greeks, by and large, worshipped Homerian Gods or Bacchus. Emphasis upon the 'logical' can be mainly traced to Aristotle. But his predecessors are another story. Plato was a supreme mystic. Talk about 'ideals' originated in his writings, whether it be the ideal triangle, ideal chair or ideal love. The key was that only the truly enlightened mind could ever know the ideal - ie. there exists a transcendental state of knowledge. Even Pythagoras of right angle triangle fame was a mystic - in fact, he founded his own religion which contained several bizarre edicts, most of which had something to do with the evils of eating beans!!

The all-pervasive scientific view is a product of the Renaissance. It has solved some problems, created new ones - and there are some areas in which it will never provide enlightenment. But I wouldn't equate science with philosophy. Science is observation and verification - intangibles such as purpose, will, ethics and God just don't compute. But these are some of the prime concerns of philosophical thought - bearing in mind that one's philosophy is their attempt to sort through, make coherent and articulate any number of 'reality' questions. Perhaps the objection is that the 'discipline' of philosophy seeks to render all things 'rational.' Maybe life isn't rational. There are groups who have thought so. But it's interesting that even those schools have forged their ideas into, well, a philosophy!! Even the idea that one must 'turn their mind off' is grounded in the philosophical belief that this is the true path of self-discovery. The belief may not be logical - it may be anti-logical. But it is encased within a philosophical framework nonetheless.

I believe that God may be meditated upon philosophically, but I do not hold that God can be discovered logically. To me, these are separate approaches. As a Christian, I'm aware of the need to know God and to understand Him. This takes place, in many ways, on an experiential and emotional level. But it is also an intellectual process - this idea is biblical; believers are encouraged to know and love God with their minds, and are called to excercise discernment and wisdom in their faith.

It's good to know that even eminent scientists such as Albert Einstein made their discoveries whilst maintaining a belief in spiritual things (Einstein exercised a devout faith in God). Or perhaps they heeded Pascal's wager, which holds that if we do believe in God and he does not in fact exist, then we've lost nothing by leading a pious spiritual life. But if we don't believe, and he DOES exist, boy are we in BIG trouble!! This argument may not be quite as convincing in 2002 as it was in the 50s - the 1650s that is! :D :D

[wagstaff]

Sureley you would want to enjoy yourself as much as you could and damn everyone ese outside of your hapiness circle. Kill them if you want to and can get away wth it. There is no point in morality or ethics, these are Christian (or other religion) values. Why not just act like an animal and kill, rape etc at will to satisfy yourself?

That's a very cynical (and not uncommon) view of human nature. This view is used often by members of the religious/political establishment for the need of religion to be a 'stabilising' and moral guide to people's lives.

If anything, religion under certain conditions promotes people to act like animals when towards others when the situation justifies it.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Frodo


Why would you want to do that? Sureley you would want to enjoy yourself as much as you could and damn everyone ese outside of your hapiness circle. Kill them if you want to and can get away wth it. There is no point in morality or ethics, these are Christian (or other religion) values. Why not just act like an animal and kill, rape etc at will to satisfy yourself?

You dill.

[London Dave]

"I've been to the other side son, and let me tell you...there's nothing f**kin there!!!!!!!!"

Kerry Packer, I believe.

[WCE2000]

Death is something that i just cant understand.

there are two possibilities : -
1 - we live for all eternity in the afterlife
2 - we die and that is the end

I dont know which is the correct possiblity, but both alternatives trouble me greatly.

If we live forever, sure it sounds great, but how long is forever???? its more than 4 million years, more than 20 millions year, it never stops. Its kind of hard to explain, but i think, surely it has to end sometime. It cant go on forever, i dont know why, but it kinda worries me to think that we could be in the afterlife forever, even if we go to heaven, where it is blissfully peaceful, i cant quite get my head around the whole eternity thing.

But then if it stops, i cant imagine there being nothing. What do you feel?????? nothing????? i just dont understand how there can be nothing, and i dont wanna know what it feels like.

So for me, im not really worried about dying (dont worry about dying, worry about living), but both possibilities to what happens when its over worries me.

[iceman]

Originally posted by WCE2000
there are two possibilities : -
1 - we live for all eternity in the afterlife
2 - we die and that is the end

But then if it stops, i cant imagine there being nothing. What do you feel?????? nothing????? i just dont understand how there can be nothing, and i dont wanna know what it feels like.

So for me, im not really worried about dying (dont worry about dying, worry about living), but both possibilities to what happens when its over worries me.

i agree with you there... i for one believe that there is an afterlife, and living forever in it seems like a daunting aspect. Difficult one...

In regards to thinking that there is nothing after death, im also really worried about what it would be, ie: would we just forget everything? cease to exist? so many unanswered questions...

[play on]

If it were possible for you to find out what happens when you die right now, would you take that chance, and find out for certain what really happens? If you took that chance, and wanted to know what happens when you die, remember that if death turns out to be very very scary, you would never forget it.

[sabre_ac]

The best thing religion brings in my opinion is that it removes or diminishes a fear of death.
I dont fear death at all, my greatist fear is growing old.

In life the worst self inflicted thing you can do to yourself is fearing death.And yes it is self inflicted for the simple fact that by worring bout it you cannot avoid it and everyone dies.
It can become very debilitating, and is probally why the idea of capital punishment is so barbaric.

[roobear]

I have just read this thread through from when I made my post several weeks ago. If nothing else, it shows how diverse we are, and has helped me to understand a lot more of people's differing philosophies.

I don't mean to reduce it from its current high plain, but this just has to be said:



QUOTE]Originally posted by Waltzing Woof Biscuit


Even Pythagoras of right angle triangle fame was a mystic - in fact, he founded his own religion which contained several bizarre edicts, most of which had something to do with the evils of eating beans!!

[/QUOTE]


Hail thee Pythagoras!!!
Thou art infinitely correct!!!

(and I forgive you for the weeks of hell in high school maths)