View Full Version : Unskilled and Unaware of It
http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html
This is why some people just will not be told.
People like FJD and Karl should have a good read of this.
Abstract
People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.
Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.
OR
It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. ( Miller, W. I. (1993) - Humiliation - p. 4 - Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press)
Discuss...
London Dave
12 Jan 2002, 19:16
I recall reading an article about this a couple of years back, and thinking at the time there were plenty of people I could think of who fitted into the McArthur Wheeler category (though not as badly). Just reinforces the old saying 'ignorance is bliss' I suppose. No one is no more certain than a fool as he/she can never appreciate the possibility of an alternative point of view.
Originally posted by Bluey
Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.
OR
It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. ( Miller, W. I. (1993) - Humiliation - p. 4 - Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press)
Discuss... [/B]
I don't think there needs to be an OR in there, To me it seems that it's a bit of both.
I couldn't read the entire article, short attention span, y'know. When I was learning to drive I believe, my father used to always say to me that there were four stages in learning.
incompetent and not know it
incompetent and know it
competent and not know it
competent and know it.
and
"As you learn more and more about the world, you begin to realise how little you really know"
I don't know if that's exactly what you're getting at but I think it would be great not to know when you're incompetant. I probably shouldn't be using an example from a movie, but I'd love to be like a character from the castle, it would mean you could do whatever you wanted and be confident that you're doing it right. And it's necessary to be confident in something to keep doing it the same way. And I'm obviously not a sociologise, but the way I see it is that if one of the Kerrigan's for whatever reason started getting out in the world and learning more about how it works, they'd probably become less and less confident in their way of life. And sooner or later they'd either shrivel up and die, or they'd begin to adapt without really realising it.
(edited to add that my powers of succesfully getting a point across are currently at the second level - incompetent and know it, so make sense of it however you will)
blurton
13 Jan 2002, 07:28
Originally posted by aggels
I don't think there needs to be an OR in there, To me it seems that it's a bit of both.
I couldn't read the entire article, short attention span, y'know. When I was learning to drive I believe, my father used to always say to me that there were four stages in learning.
incompetent and not know it
incompetent and know it
competent and not know it
competent and know it.
and
"As you learn more and more about the world, you begin to realise how little you really know"
I don't know if that's exactly what you're getting at but I think it would be great not to know when you're incompetant. I probably shouldn't be using an example from a movie, but I'd love to be like a character from the castle, it would mean you could do whatever you wanted and be confident that you're doing it right. And it's necessary to be confident in something to keep doing it the same way. And I'm obviously not a sociologise, but the way I see it is that if one of the Kerrigan's for whatever reason started getting out in the world and learning more about how it works, they'd probably become less and less confident in their way of life. And sooner or later they'd either shrivel up and die, or they'd begin to adapt without really realising it.
(edited to add that my powers of succesfully getting a point across are currently at the second level - incompetent and know it, so make sense of it however you will)
Brilliant post!!!
It raises the question, 'what is important'. Many people would say happiness. The Kerrigans are clearly happy people, and they should be envied. And what of other examples of challenged cognitive processes? What of some of the posters here that are challenged with their thoughts however, seem to be bullet proof in their resolve. What a marvellous existence it must be to believe you are always right. In addition, these people have extremely thick skins. This may be an even more important trait. Imagine being constantly protected from scorn and ridicule. Free to say what you think no matter how ridiculous, knowing that the responses are like water off a duck's back. Some say that one of the downsides of this personality type is an inability to sense human pain. I often look at adults with Down's Syndrome and observe their overt happiness. The stressful complexities of the world eludes them. The pain of the people who feel sympathy for them also eludes them. I'm certainly no expert on this condition however, I doubt whether they think much about their situation, and they just live from day to day having fun. That's to be envied.
A pporly skilled person with confidence is more likely to succeed than a more skilled person without confidence.
Believing one can't do it is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Pessimistic
14 Jan 2002, 07:42
As it relates to bigfooty its the belief one has in their opinions, no matter how absurd they seem to others.
Contributing to this might be what seems to be more pressure these days to have an opinion, even on subjects you know little about.
eg what do you think about september 11. Obviously a tragedy but why did it happen.
Many of us don't understand it. If we Knew the reason, we might be beginning to resolve it.
American flag waving seems to have something to do with it, yet there has been a hell of a lot more since. I don't know why, but I don't think the 'problem' will be resolved soon.
Please don't switch to this subject. I just wanted a good example of people being encouraged to take a position but not really iunderstanding it
Mobbenfuhrer
15 Jan 2002, 04:39
Hardwired into everyone's head is the person they're going to be.
Growing up's not a matter of choice, its a matter of wait and see.
aggels - It was two different ways of saying the same thing. Perhaps you should read the entire paper. Go on. Give it a go.
I think if the Kerrigans got out in the world (which, in the movie, they definitely did) it would just confirm what they already knew: that they have the good life.
As the paper says: some people, even though they are presented with feedback on their own incompetence, choose to ignore it or are unable to see the lessons to be learned.
Attempting to bluff your way through an argument does not work in the majority of cases, but some people see only when it works and so assume that all of those failures have finally yielded a "win". They fail to see that they could avoid losing every argument simply by shutting up and listening.
Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and dispel all doubt.
Know only that you know nothing.
etc etc etc etc blah blah blah
Then again, I could be wrong.
Originally posted by Bluey
Then again, I could be wrong.
But would you know if you were? :eek: ;)
"Although we feel we have done a competent job in making a strong case for this analysis, studying it empirically, and drawing out relevant implications, our thesis leaves us with one haunting worry that we cannot vanquish. That worry is that this article may contain faulty logic, methodological errors, or poor communication. Let us assure our readers that to the extent this article is imperfect, it is not a sin we have committed knowingly. "
Pisser.
Originally posted by Bluey
Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and dispel all doubt.
Know only that you know nothing.
Ooops. :(
Mobb: In that case identical twins would have exactly the same personalities.
Mobbenfuhrer
16 Jan 2002, 04:54
... and they pretty well do ...
... in honesty, I was just quoting a TISM line. Don't listen to me :D