View Full Version : England- where now after drawing with the #8 Test side at home?
You can bleat about injuries all you want, but England had the opportunity to put this series on ice early and did not do so- and not because they were missing Harmisson, Jones and Vaughan. A failure to go on with batting against what is pretty mediocre pace bowling (Murali a different matter, of course) and the shoddy fielding (apart from Collingwood) did you in.
An excellent start at Lords was lost with the sloppy catching, especially after enforcing the follow on. One might point to blowing the rust off after a two month layoff, but you need to be ready to play from the get go, and the Poms showed in this match that they were not ready. Their bats put them in excellent position, led by Pieterson's ton, but they could not get the job done in about three days. Maybe they should have come out and batted again for a quick 200 or so, but remember that bad weather was about....not a bad choice by Freddie.
A nice recovery at Edgbaston, but the English struggled in the run chase. A problem putting away the Sri Lankan tail, this time partly with the bowlers. Pieterson's knock really won the game for the English here.
Third Test- well, the injuries to Flintoff, Peterson and Collingwood did not help during the match, nor did a pitch that clearly suited Murali. The batting proved very weak, while the bowling again could not dismiss the tail, and Monty showed his value in the second innings.
Overall, the openers showed they are as vulnerable as the Aussie openers were last summer.
Cook? Have to be some question marks swirling around the kid, and with Vaughan, obe in the wings again, he may be gone until after the Ashes (may help with captaincy, but not necessarily the batting demise)..
Pieterson has shown he is the danger man for the team.
Colllingwqood very solid, and clearly the best of the fielders. In my eyes, ahead of Cook with Vaughan, obe on the way back...
Flintoff? Down a bit on fearsome nature, and batting suffering...his ankle may be giving him some real pause for concern....
Jones- still not convinced with him, but there are other areas that need to be taken care of, and will be when people come back.
Panasaer- the big find of the series. Think the young man is cementing himself as an icon in the team, and proving his value with the ball, but need to either get him fielding practice or have Pratt as the permanent 12th man for Oz.....
Hoggard- no problems....very good bowler- will he get his movement Down Under?
Plunkett, Mahmood and Lewis- think Sajit probably helped himself by NOT being in the Trent Bridge side. Lewis will be hurt by his second innings...Plunkett was OK.... Harmisson comes back, and one will go from the XI, but who stays? At this point, I'd go with Mahmood, even with his waywardness.
Does this tell us anything for the Ashes? Nope, because the team is not set, and the Poms have four more Tests with Pakistan to sort things out. To me, Simon Jones is still a big key- if he is out (and he is flying to the US for another opinion on his knee), England will have difficulties. I don't see Vaughan, obe being the magic elixir, although he might get them through the Pakistan series.
The result against Sri Lanka is a poor one, but the english can recover and play well against Pakistan...however, a 2-0 or 3-0 result really needs to be the goal for the team looking to retain the Ashes in six months time. They should be able to handle the Pakistanis on their home turf, providing they get the pitches suited for their attack and their bats.
I still go with my pick of 3-1 for the Aussies, with the series decided on a turning SCG- but anybody putting up 4-0 or 5-0 fopr the Aussies has to be dreaming. We have some of the same flaws that are being exposed in the English
goschuey
6 Jun 2006, 20:46
An interesting analysis of the poms.
I think if you put harmy, simon jones and vaughan back into any team it will make a big difference.
However, in Australian conditions, the poms won't be the team they were in the last ashes series.
I am pretty confident that the aussies will win back the ashes, but we need to play the two leggys (warne and mcgill) more often than not.
It stands out like dogs balls that the pommies can't play quality leg spin.
We have the two best leg spinners in the world, we need to use this weapon.
If I had to make a guess at this early stage assuming both teams are full strength, i would say Australia 3-1 as well.
This series didn't do anything to silence the pommie doubters. Injuries were a key reason but weaknesses remain. Injuries will also be a major variable for both sides in the ashes and I guess we have to remember that the Aussies are ageing and there's no guarantee that McGrath will return potent at his age and without much recent bowling. If the poms have a full bowling contingent a lot may depend on the type of pitches produced. If they are conducive to conventional swing it will help both Freddie and Hoggard. If they are abrasive enough to aid reverse swing a fit Jones + Flintoff will come into the picture.
Monty may be better than Giles or any other ordinary tweaker who has graced these shores over the years but their own weakness against spin is sure to be telling. Mind you while Warne took a lot of wickets last year he did go for more runs so he might not be quite as lethal as he was in the past. His county spell may even take the edge of him ; surely at his age he must get tired. But he is always dangerous at Brisbane and the first test tends to set the tone for the rest of the series. BTW they have added strength to Monty's contact lenses to improve his vision which they hope aids his fielding.
England's batting looks fragile but "on paper" they still look better than other teams which came out during their long period in the wilderness. The harder Aussie tracks may even test the likes of KP but the South Africans weren't that troubled by pace this year so if the tracks are as benign as they were, Perth even lacked life, the adjustment may not be as stark as it has been in the past. Flintoff at #6, if he can bat as well as he did in England affords them better balance than us. We can use an allrounder at 6 but nobody has put his hand up yet. Symonds again would spell disaster as a better attack in England would exploit him more than the mediocre ones did last summer.
England may have to look at Jones. His wicketkeeping still appears a bit shoddy and yet his batting is not really compensating at the moment. Dropped catches will prove crucial as Australia will hurt them on home soil even more than the Lankans eventually did.
While the Aussies look to be favourites there is still a lot of water to flow under the bridge as the cliche goes. Injuries will be important. How Australia comes off the break may even be a variable. Most are assuming that the layoff will be more beneficial than England's program but at least the poms get to experiment with some talent and can do some fine-tuning.
It will be a testing summer for the likes of Hayden and Langer with the former struggling against the better English bowling last ashes series. He must prove once and for all that he's not a 'flat-track bully', by bludgeoning a quality attack in a pivotal series. His failures in some crucial innings on more challenging decks in South Africa was a bit of a worry. Martyn if selected, will also be in the gun and if they go with Clarke first up he must step up to the plate.
It will also be revealing how Gilly performs. Can he break the Flintoff around the wicket hex? Will he rescue the team as he once did? Against SA, bar Sydney, the runs seemed to have somewhat dried up.
As for the bowling Lee will take the new ball but McGrath as mentioned remains somewhat of a conundrum and it will be interesting to see if Clark is a great find or was aided by some bowler-friendly pitches in South Africa. Bracken may get a gig somewhere along the line if they think it will be conducive to swing. But as others have suggested a two prong leg-spin attack looks likely in more than one test. Perth though isn't spin friendly so Stuey will probably be on the outer there.
The other area of interest may lie in whether or not the selectors are prepared to gamble on new talent such as Cosgrove. It would be a risk but there are a couple of doubtful batting positions i.e. #4 Martyn and #6 probably up for grabs unless they give Clarke first go after a less than productive Bangladesh foray. If they go with tried and true and they fail initially they will have nothing to lose by going with Cossie providing he is scoring runs at Pura Cup level. It's time we started showcasing and blooding some younger talent. Surely the Michael Hussey case has shown them that he was neglected for too long. This will be Hussey's biggest test to date.
It will probably be Langer's swansong and depending on performances may herald the end of some careers so no matter what happens will be replete with possibility.
The crowds may also be a factor with Australian support sure to be more parochial than ever due to the losing of the urn last time around. There are sure to be some prime pommie targets and it will be interesting to see if they can stand up to the pressure.
BRING IT ON!
ablettjnr
6 Jun 2006, 21:32
They will all lift against us.
dan warna
6 Jun 2006, 22:36
harmison, flintoff and jones I'll give you, but what has vaughan done with the bat over the past couple of years besides carry it out to the middle, and 5 minutes later carry it back to the dressing room?
He has used it to not protect his stumps.
How does this result affect Englands points on the ICC rankings table? Surely it will damage them, will it put them back behind India??
He has used it to not protect his stumps.
How does this result affect Englands points on the ICC rankings table? Surely it will damage them, will it put them back behind India??
Maybe depends on how the India/West Indies series pans out.
Boycott issues Ashes warning
London - Geoffrey Boycott has told an "indifferent" England they must raise their game if they are to mount a successful defence of the Ashes later this year.
England went down to a 184-run third Test defeat against Sri Lanka on Monday at Trent Bridge which saw the tourists end the three-match series level at 1-1.
Muttiah Muralitharan took eight for 70 as the home side slumped to 190 all out but former England opening batsman Boycott said the Sri Lanka off-spinner was not the only reason for the home side's defeat.
"England under-performed with bat and ball in the first innings," said Yorkshire great Boycott. "And their malaise began with an inability to knock over the Sri Lanka tail.
"England had Sri Lanka 138 for eight on the first afternoon but instead of finishing them off their bowlers suddenly became ineffective," he also wrote in his column in Tuesday's Daily Telegraph.
"Not getting rid of the tail hurt them at Lord's (the venue for the drawn series opener) where they ended up bowling 199 overs in the second innings.
"England should have nailed them there, not pussyfooted around for 14 hours in the field."
Boycott, renowned for his concentration at the crease, also said too many of England's batsmen had given their wickets away and stressed that had been a particular problem at Trent Bridge.
"Murali only got three wickets in the first innings which means that six wickets fell on a good pitch to very average bowlers (Marcus Trescothick was run out). Five out of seven batsmen got starts yet nobody made a half-century."
Boycott, who played in several England sides that enjoyed Test series victories against Australia, was clear about the root cause of the current team's modest form.
"The problem since England won the Ashes is that everyone is still focused on last year and next winter," he said ahead of November's start to the next Anglo-Australian Test campaign.
"The players can pretend all they want but deep down they know they could have and should have beaten Sri Lanka 3-0," added Boycott, who added England coach Duncan Fletcher faced some tough decisions. "This is where the coach has to earn his money. He believes in loyalty... loyalty is very admirable up to a point but it has to be repaid with performances otherwise we are drifting into an Ashes series on indifferent form and indifferent results."
What went wrong for England?
By Martin Gough
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif
England's Test series against Sri Lanka was supposed to be a warm-up for the visit of Pakistan later in the second half of the summer and next winter's Ashes, but they were given a rude awakening.
Although Sri Lanka's performance in tying the series must not be under-valued, BBC TMS message board users were quick to highlight the problem areas in England's injury-hit side.
LACK OF BOWLING FIREPOWER
"The major reason we have not won this series is that we have been unable to clean up the tail in all three games. The two fast bowlers we are missing, Simon Jones and Steve Harmison, are the most effective at doing this."
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41731000/jpg/_41731808_feat_plunkett203.jpg Plunkett finished the Sri Lanka tail quickly at Edgbaston
With injuries to Harmison (shin), Jones (knee) and James Anderson (back), novices Liam Plunkett and Sajid Mahmood were given their chance.
But England were unable to regularly finish off the Sri Lankan tail, which added an average 70.17 runs for their last three wickets in six Test innings - twice England's figure.
They finished the job properly only once, when Plunkett took the second new ball in the second innings of the second Test at Edgbaston and returned figures of 3-17.
Mahmood replicated Harmison's pace on occasion but lacked guile while Plunkett was more successful with the orthodox swing of the newer ball, rather than the reverse swing that Jones uses so well.
When conditions ceased to favour swing in the third Test, debutant Jon Lewis was quickly reduced to the role of stock bowler.
All those issues added up to an extra burden on skipper Andrew Flintoff, whose troublesome left ankle could not last the series.
WEAKNESS AGAINST TOP-CLASS SPIN
"The Aussies would be better off preparing flat, turning tracks [for the Ashes series] and unleashing Shane Warne and Stuart MacGill. I truly believe then England would have no chance at all in winning down under, as they are such poor players of quality spin."
Of Muttiah Muralitharan's record 635 Test victims, 93 are English batsmen - more than the figure for any other country.
His success in stopping the run chase at Trent Bridge almost mirrored that of Shane Warne at the same venue 12 months earlier, although on that occasion, England's was, thankfully for them, far smaller.
England thought they had Murali figured out five years ago but they appear unable to read his doosra delivery, which he has developed since then and turns away from the right-hander.
Their favourite approach seems to be to go on the attack, but Muralitharan is too canny a customer to be cowed.
FRAGILE MIDDLE ORDER
"Sri Lanka's batting at Lord's and in the third innings at Trent Bridge showed what could be done by a side prepared to limit their shots and eek out runs. England have failed to do that over the last 12 months, except in the final Test in India. That is a lesson well worth learning."
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41731000/jpg/_41731814_feat_piet203.jpg Pietersen's attacking plan did not work for other batsmen
On wickets that demanded it, Sri Lanka captain Mahela Jayawardene at Lord's and opener Michael Vandort at Edgbaston scored centuries from the old school
While the tourists batted for time, with runs as the by-product, England continued with their Ashes plan of attacking early.
But only Kevin Pietersen was successful with that approach, his series average of 72.00 and strike rate of 77.92 both over 50% more than any team-mate.
New boy Alastair Cook was by far the most patient England batsman, with a Geoffrey Boycott-like 83 at Lord's and an unbeaten 34 in the successful run-chase at Edgbaston.
BRITTLE LOWER ORDER
"Our tail has not scored enough runs. This is hit-and-miss to a certain extent, but when Ashley Giles comes back, as I feel sure he will, you'd have to assume that Fletcher will bring him back, we'll have a solid number eight who can provide a bit more batting solidity."
Much has been made of the dearth of lower-order runs from the current side.
They collapsed at Edgbaston, when Muralitharan reduced them from 290-6 to 295 all out, but the last three batsmen in the England order were only called into action on two other occasions in the whole series.
At Trent Bridge, the last three wickets added 108 runs in both innings, with Plunkett and Lewis both stepping up.
And Monty Panesar's 26 with the third Test already lost helped dispel the image of him as an inept batsman as well as a wobbly fielder.
At seven in the order, though, there is continued pressure on wicket-keeper Geraint Jones to provide the runs he was brought in for.
CAPTAINCY
"Flintoff is too casual and has limited acumen, not the chess grand master of a captain that Michael Vaughan is. A better captain would have shown intensity at Lord's and the team would have followed by example and buried that game, finishing off at Edgbaston and making Trent Bridge irrelevant."
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41731000/jpg/_41731810_feat_flintoff203.jpg Flintoff tended to wait too long to use Panesar
Brought in as a short-term stand-in for the injured Vaughan in India, Flintoff has had more than he bargained for as captain after six Tests at the helm, with two wins and two losses.
He likes to lead from the front, which saw him bowl a massive 51 overs in the opening Test and could have played a part in his new injury worry.
There has been the occasional inspired bowling change but Panesar in particular has at times been left to graze in the outfield while the seamers toil.
Flintoff's use of field-placings to Sri Lanka's tail-enders have tended to be defensive, trying to prompt aggressive errors rather than looking to expose technical deficiencies. Whoever is the figurehead, though, England have the same leadership structure around their captain, through coach Duncan Fletcher and a group of senior players, so Flintoff's role must not be over-played.
Browney2006
6 Jun 2006, 23:33
He has used it to not protect his stumps.
How does this result affect Englands points on the ICC rankings table? Surely it will damage them, will it put them back behind India??
Still ahead of India, but obviousely the Windies tour may change this. Sri Lanka have moved from 7th > 6th, just behind the Safs.
Geoff Boycott's column, echoing some of the ideas above....
***********
Geoff Boycott column
By Geoff Boycott
Former England batsman
England should have beaten Sri Lanka 3-0 in the Test series but they are unrecognisable from the team which won the Ashes last year.
Hardly a week goes by when someone's not injured
They've lost four and won only two of the nine Tests since then and that's not the kind of record to take to Australia this winter.
It's not that England have played badly, but they just can't seem to get any consistency - they go from one extreme to another.
And then there are the injuries.
Hardly a week goes by when someone's not injured and now, just when we get to the point where Steve Harmison is ready to come back, Andrew Flintoff gets a problem.
It is a concern and while the public think we're going to beat the Aussies next winter, we don't look like we can do that at the moment.
When the team is doing well coaches can sit back and enjoy it, but when things aren't right that's when they have to earn their money.
Man for man, we're far better than Sri Lanka but we're not taking our opportunities.
There were two big chances to take control of the game at Trent Bridge before it came to facing Muttiah Muralitharan in the last innings.
We had them 139-8 in the first innings and they got 92 extra runs. Then when England batted our batsmen didn't do their jobs.
We are missing a bit of pace in the bowling - the loss of Steve Harmison and Simon Jones has hurt us
They should have got us a big lead but five out of seven batsmen got in and then got themselves out.
After that, once you're in the position England were in on the last day - facing Murali and a 300 target - you don't have a cat in hell's chance, he would have bowled anybody out on that pitch.
The likes of Graham Gooch, David Gower and myself would have all found it difficult but the key was we wouldn't have got in that position in the first place.
England had a chance to take charge and screwed it up - there's no other way of putting it.
We are missing a bit of pace in the bowling, the loss of Harmison and Simon Jones has hurt us.
You need a wrist spinner or pace to put the fear of God into tail-enders and we only had one guy with pace, Flintoff, who was injured.
The only time we knocked them over easily in both innings was when we won at Edgbaston.
We couldn't bowl them out at Lord's in 14 hours and that shows how important out-and-out pace is.
We don't have the quality in depth. Yes, there's been an opportunity for young players but they are not the Real McCoy yet.
Harmison has real firepower but fast-medium doesn't hurt anybody unless there's juice in the pitch.
There won't be any juice in Australia - it will be bloody hot, the pitches will be baked hard like concrete, so we'd better have some pace available when we go there.
Ray Nolan
7 Jun 2006, 10:30
Love how all the Aussie fans are getting themselves into a lather.
As an England fan I'm not too worried despite the disappointing result. The injuries have given us a chance to test our depth and we've made some good finds.
Come Ashes time we should be fit, firing & ready to go - we will lift big time so you can put your 5-0 predictions back in your box for now ...
Blues_Man
7 Jun 2006, 12:00
Love how all the Aussie fans are getting themselves into a lather.
As an England fan I'm not too worried despite the disappointing result. The injuries have given us a chance to test our depth and we've made some good finds.
Come Ashes time we should be fit, firing & ready to go - we will lift big time so you can put your 5-0 predictions back in your box for now ...
Typical pom blaming injuries for poor form
paul scholes
7 Jun 2006, 14:03
Love how all the Aussie fans are getting themselves into a lather.
As an England fan I'm not too worried despite the disappointing result. The injuries have given us a chance to test our depth and we've made some good finds.
Come Ashes time we should be fit, firing & ready to go - we will lift big time so you can put your 5-0 predictions back in your box for now ...
nobody isn't getting ahead of themselves 5nil won't happen, poor result and the worrying thing for you lot is the inability to play murali. England injuries are to the same players consistently. Can somebody explain to me how you can follow the aussies in the world game yet follow the english in cricket? Clearly an identity crisis.:rolleyes:
RoosterLad
7 Jun 2006, 14:48
England are crap.
It's time for a merger in international cricket.
England and South Africa. Both are pathetic with no heart, no soul, no shine, little talent.
England were calling themselves the best team in the world after the Ashes. To be the best you need a killer instinct and consistency. England have neither.
Browney2006
7 Jun 2006, 15:33
nobody isn't getting ahead of themselves 5nil won't happen, poor result and the worrying thing for you lot is the inability to play murali. England injuries are to the same players consistently. Can somebody explain to me how you can follow the aussies in the world game yet follow the english in cricket? Clearly an identity crisis.:rolleyes:
It doesnt take much to turn on the Australian Cricket team, i have a lot of Aussie mates that dont like the Australian Cricket team.
TheColeTrain
7 Jun 2006, 15:34
how bad would they have done if Vaughn was playing
England are crap.
It's time for a merger in international cricket.
England and South Africa. Both are pathetic with no heart, no soul, no shine, little talent.
England were calling themselves the best team in the world after the Ashes. To be the best you need a killer instinct and consistency. England have neither.
Good idea. Both lack passion and in SA's case only produce boring cricketers. Reunite the Saffies with their imperial history:D
eddiesmith
7 Jun 2006, 16:17
nobody isn't getting ahead of themselves 5nil won't happen, poor result and the worrying thing for you lot is the inability to play murali. England injuries are to the same players consistently. Can somebody explain to me how you can follow the aussies in the world game yet follow the english in cricket? Clearly an identity crisis.:rolleyes:
Yet Aussies are all relying on McGrath coming back to full fitness and destroying us, I would think out of all the players who could come back into both sides that McGrath coming back and being a problem for us is the least likely
I cant wait to see an Aussie attack of Lee, Clark, MacGill, Symonds and Warne
Those first 3 are always good for over 100 runs each in the first innings and Ricky will end up bowling Warney into the ground
England are crap.
It's time for a merger in international cricket.
England and South Africa. Both are pathetic with no heart, no soul, no shine, little talent.
England were calling themselves the best team in the world after the Ashes. To be the best you need a killer instinct and consistency. England have neither.
Its funny the only team we can beat is Aus Worry about yourselves
Ray Nolan
8 Jun 2006, 09:54
Can somebody explain to me how you can follow the aussies in the world game yet follow the english in cricket? Clearly an identity crisis.:rolleyes:
Can you say the words "dual citizen".:rolleyes:
Blues_Man
8 Jun 2006, 10:40
Can you say the words "dual citizen".:rolleyes:
can you say ...fence sitter :rolleyes:
The Reaper
8 Jun 2006, 22:16
Good idea. Both lack passion and in SA's case only produce boring cricketers. Reunite the Saffies with their imperial history:D
OMG! Is Romeo calling Peiterson a boring cricketer?
dan warna
9 Jun 2006, 13:08
l hope they are crushed in spirit :)
RoosterLad
9 Jun 2006, 14:19
Its funny the only team we can beat is Aus Worry about yourselves
Australia 20 England 0
Browney2006
9 Jun 2006, 17:23
Australia 20 England 0
No, no your wrong it was England 20 Australia 17 ;)
RoosterLad
9 Jun 2006, 18:25
No, no your wrong it was England 20 Australia 17 ;)
**** off.
I had $100 on Australia at 7.50 (before their semi).
:(
dan warna
9 Jun 2006, 18:36
I rate england a chance...
if they can field a test side WITH NO ACTUAL ENGLISHMEN in it
OMG! Is Romeo calling Peiterson a boring cricketer?
Well of course he couldn't bear to play in such a boring team, he had to move to express himself.:D
Browney2006
9 Jun 2006, 19:37
I rate england a chance...
if they can field a test side WITH NO ACTUAL ENGLISHMEN in it
I always find it hilarious when Australians bag other countries for having sportsmen from have other backgrounds.
Pot......Kettle.........Black..........:thumbsu:
dan warna
9 Jun 2006, 20:17
I always find it hilarious when Australians bag other countries for having sportsmen from have other backgrounds.
Pot......Kettle.........Black..........:thumbsu:
nothing wrong with migrants, you dumb asses exported every pomme with a bit of backbone to australia, now you need warnie to breed up your race again :)