View Full Version : Buckley- Champion of Champions
johnson_26
8 Jun 2006, 00:32
Stop comparing Voss to Buckley and Hird.
Bucks is a champion ari you're officially a nob. buckley has accumulated more midfield game time in his four years of his career thanvoss and hird have had in the careers. Midfields dont last being soft outside receivers.
When bucks won his brownlow, he was 2nd to hardball gets behind anthony koutafides. To call nathan buckley soft is to call james hird a gutless pig.
Voss has played in good teams all his career, and when the going gets tough, he is nowhere to be seen. He's is a great player, a champion, but not in bucks' and hirds' ilk.
Hirdy and Bucks will be immortals. buckley is the greatest centreman the game has ever seen- simple as that.
To say buckley is soft, you're literally a tool ari and you ought to get shot.
Just finally, shut up about all this talk of premierships and such when comparing bucks because:
a: bucks could well have one in the next 2 years,, ooh i'd love that backlash.
b; individuals don't win premierships, you actually need some class in the TEAM OF 22! to get you there in the first place- then to finish the job.
Bucks has played in 3 finals series since his debut in 1993. However, he has polled the most brownlow votes in the history of the game i believe, or more than anyone in the past 20 years. So really, please, stop crapping on about it. Gary Ablett never won a flag, but he was a champion and will remain 'God'.
no we only say that to annoy the #### out of the bandwagon dopey idiotic pies fans like yourself.
we know bucks is a great players, jsut hasn't won a flag yet. and probably never will have aswell. I'd prefer Robert Harvey before Buckley anyday by the way.
fearlessone77
8 Jun 2006, 00:38
Stop comparing Voss to Buckley and Hird.
Bucks is a champion ari you're officially a nob. buckley has accumulated more midfield game time in his four years of his career thanvoss and hird have had in the careers. Midfields dont last being soft outside receivers.
When bucks won his brownlow, he was 2nd to hardball gets behind anthony koutafides. To call nathan buckley soft is to call james hird a gutless pig.
Voss has played in good teams all his career, and when the going gets tough, he is nowhere to be seen. He's is a great player, a champion, but not in bucks' and hirds' ilk.
Hirdy and Bucks will be immortals. buckley is the greatest centreman the game has ever seen- simple as that.
To say buckley is soft, you're literally a tool ari and you ought to get shot.
Just finally, shut up about all this talk of premierships and such when comparing bucks because:
a: bucks could well have one in the next 2 years,, ooh i'd love that backlash.
b; individuals don't win premierships, you actually need some class in the TEAM OF 22! to get you there in the first place- then to finish the job.
Bucks has played in 3 finals series since his debut in 1993. However, he has polled the most brownlow votes in the history of the game i believe, or more than anyone in the past 20 years. So really, please, stop crapping on about it. Gary Ablett never won a flag, but he was a champion and will remain 'God'.
Greg *cough* Williams *cough*
Sanguinarius
8 Jun 2006, 01:18
amazing... the trio of champions is mentioned again - while forgetting someone who is easilly as good as they are. THE ROO.
no we only say that to annoy the #### out of the bandwagon dopey idiotic pies fans like yourself.
we know bucks is a great players, jsut hasn't won a flag yet. and probably never will have aswell. I'd prefer Robert Harvey before Buckley anyday by the way.
Pot, kettle, black.:rolleyes:
DynamoUltra
8 Jun 2006, 01:49
Voss > Buckley > Hird
Aussie Joe
8 Jun 2006, 04:11
buckley is the greatest centreman the game has ever seen- simple as that.
Did you ever see Diesel play a game you clown !!!
Crazy post Johnson. Deisel owns the centre!!!!
Everybody rates Bucks. But nobody likes Zeke and his ordinary posts. To lob out a Bucks is better than Voss thread is stupid.
As was detailed and clearly decided on Zeke's awaful post yesterday, Pies supporters think Bucks is best. Lions supporters say Voss is best.
AANNDDDDD...everyone else fron the other 14 clubs who have watched both over many years, rate VOSS the BOSS. Simple as that.
We all think Bucks is a gun, and put him in the company of Hird, Roo and Harvey.
But Voss is clearly the best!
Lonie_from_50
8 Jun 2006, 10:19
People who rate Voss ahead of Buckley and Hird are insane. There is several arguments that can be over-rided in here that johnson 26 wrote, especially 'centreman', however, you can't over-ride the following:
Just finally, shut up about all this talk of premierships and such when comparing bucks because:
a: bucks could well have one in the next 2 years,, ooh i'd love that backlash.
b; individuals don't win premierships, you actually need some class in the TEAM OF 22! to get you there in the first place- then to finish the job.
Now, that is what I have been saying for many years, but never gets any knowledge from idiots around here.
1) Players say that the most prestigious award out there is a premiership medal.
You can't argue about that, but then again, I pose this question. How can one player be rated above another player because one is a premiership player and the other is not? It is a team game, and it is not how you rate an individual.
Voss is a great leader, a better leader than Buckley it seems, and history shows that. He took the club to four grand finals and won three of them.
Buckley is a workhorse though, and his latter career does show that the three players bunched together as one only 1-2 years ago, have now maybe appeared to seperate into an order. "We rate players over a career" is something said by anyone involved in football. From the upper echelon to the lower journo's to the fans of the game, they will all say that.
Over a career, Buckley has been the most consistent. Nathan Buckley played one of his best, if not the best game of his 260-plus game career so far.
In all fairness, I would still not like to split them up. They are three of five champions in the game, probably a level up from Harvey and Ricciuto, and then again West and Crawford etc. But over a career, Buckley is the one who has continued on playing consistent footy throughout his career, he has had several injury problems but overcome them, he has played in a worse-off team yet had individual achievements recognised by the AFL community, and has taken a side to two grand-finals out of two finals series.
Buckley should be gaining more respect and knowledge out of so-called knowledgable football fans.
I don't know why this couldn't be attached to the other thread.
BTW Voss/Hird >>>> Buckley by a long way IMO
Coin_Toss
8 Jun 2006, 10:58
Buckley doesn't get enough credit, because he plays for Collingwood. Not many people can see past their hatred towards Collingwood.
Moss Rocket
8 Jun 2006, 10:58
All brilliant players. I don't care about premierships, stats etc. I care about what I HAVE SEEN over the yeasrs watching them play.
I rate Voss number 1, Hird 2, Buckley 3.
I think they are all awesome and better than anything my club has dished up over the last dozen years. So iam not a one eyed supporter like all these Pies fans.
Buckley is awesome. He is just IMO not a game breaker like Voss. I have watched Voss dominate play like nobody other than Wayne Carey. He has been frightening to watch. Buckley has never frightened me. A work horse yes. A Voss / Carey game buster...No!
Everyone has an opinion, but like someone earlier said. It seems everyone other than Pie supporters rated Voss the best.
Just accept this opinion. Move on. You love your Bucks...and that is great! Go Bucks!
Karlostj
8 Jun 2006, 11:03
People who rate Voss ahead of Buckley and Hird are insane. There is several arguments that can be over-rided in here that johnson 26 wrote, especially 'centreman', however, you can't over-ride the following:
Now, that is what I have been saying for many years, but never gets any knowledge from idiots around here.
1) Players say that the most prestigious award out there is a premiership medal.
You can't argue about that, but then again, I pose this question. How can one player be rated above another player because one is a premiership player and the other is not? It is a team game, and it is not how you rate an individual.
Voss is a great leader, a better leader than Buckley it seems, and history shows that. He took the club to four grand finals and won three of them.
Buckley is a workhorse though, and his latter career does show that the three players bunched together as one only 1-2 years ago, have now maybe appeared to seperate into an order. "We rate players over a career" is something said by anyone involved in football. From the upper echelon to the lower journo's to the fans of the game, they will all say that.
Over a career, Buckley has been the most consistent. Nathan Buckley played one of his best, if not the best game of his 260-plus game career so far.
In all fairness, I would still not like to split them up. They are three of five champions in the game, probably a level up from Harvey and Ricciuto, and then again West and Crawford etc. But over a career, Buckley is the one who has continued on playing consistent footy throughout his career, he has had several injury problems but overcome them, he has played in a worse-off team yet had individual achievements recognised by the AFL community, and has taken a side to two grand-finals out of two finals series.
Buckley should be gaining more respect and knowledge out of so-called knowledgable football fans.
So you rate whos better, by whos had a longer more consistent career...?
So by this rating system John Coleman wouldn't be rated very highly, he only played 98 games (in which he kicked 537 goals). But because Stuart Lowe or Tony Modra played longer and kicked more goals these guys are better players...??
Yet Coleman is rated number 2 on Essendon's all time champions list....
I think if you're going to compare the players, you'd have to look at the players in their prime... Looking at the last couple of seasons hardly does it justice.
I think if you're going to compare the players, you'd have to look at the players in their prime... Looking at the last couple of seasons hardly does it justice.
29 disposals and 6 goals.
Are you suggesting Buckley is past his prime? ;)
Buckley doesn't get enough credit, because he plays for Collingwood. Not many people can see past their hatred towards Collingwood.
Rubbish. Opposition suppoters hate us as much as they do you. Infact more so, as people tend to hate the successful clubs...not those who win a flag seldomly. We have been up there for ever. We are envied and hated, yet Hird is respected. Don't look for excuses. The people have spoken
Voss/Hird>>>>Buckley:o
manmountain
8 Jun 2006, 12:17
Rubbish. Opposition suppoters hate us as much as they do you. Infact more so, as people tend to hate the successful clubs...not those who win a flag seldomly. We have been up there for ever. We are envied and hated, yet Hird is respected. Don't look for excuses. The people have spoken
Voss/Hird>>>>Buckley:o
Sorry to break it to you but Essendon are pitied at the moment.
You scare no-one. We feel embarrassed for you. Envy and hate aren't even in the equation. We empathise with you - we've seen your list, and it's nothing but pity for you guys.
Stick at it though, it will turn around one day, you poor souls.
Sorry to break it to you but Essendon are pitied at the moment.
You scare no-one. We feel embarrassed for you. Envy and hate aren't even in the equation. We empathise with you - we've seen your list, and it's nothing but pity for you guys.
Stick at it though, it will turn around one day, you poor souls.
We know it will. We spend about as much time at the bottom of the ladder as you win flags. Very very rarely:p :p
bunsen burner
8 Jun 2006, 12:21
wa wa waa
tissue?
Buckley doesn't get enough credit, because he plays for Collingwood. Not many people can see past their hatred towards Collingwood.
It could just as easily be argued that Buckley gets far too much praise and credit, especially from football journos, simply because he plays for the club that sells the most papers.
Look, if the Pies win the flag this year and Buckley continues to put in performances like he did on Saturday night, then he will have placed himself on the same pedestal as Voss and Hird. If they don't, and Bucks resorts to having very little influence on games like he has done for the majority of this season to date, then he will forever remain a notch below Voss and Hird in the eyes of the vast majority of neutral supporters.
Lonie_from_50
8 Jun 2006, 12:35
So you rate whos better, by whos had a longer more consistent career...?
So by this rating system John Coleman wouldn't be rated very highly, he only played 98 games (in which he kicked 537 goals). But because Stuart Lowe or Tony Modra played longer and kicked more goals these guys are better players...??
Yet Coleman is rated number 2 on Essendon's all time champions list....
I think if you're going to compare the players, you'd have to look at the players in their prime... Looking at the last couple of seasons hardly does it justice.
No way. Your getting it wrong. When I say consistent, it means he plays consistent footy. John Coleman obviously was one of the most consistent footballers going around before he retired early.
What I am demonstrating is that Buckley's latter career has been much better than Voss's. Voss can't hit a target with his foot, and I have watched 80% of Brisbane games, and he rarely has hit a target by foot. As a champion who hit a target, by body or foot, it happened consistently for Voss. He doesn't have that aggression he used to have, so he should be using his skills as his asset, not his agression and footy brain like of old. He hasn't used his skills when he can't use his others at present time, except for his brain. Buckley is playing his best footy still at an older age. People expected him to probably retire after his hammy injuries, but nup, comes back and plays the same old footy, whether midfielder or half-forward flank or even full-forward. He wins 80% of contests and still has the influence he always has had. Voss doesn't. Hird does (when on the park).
Hird has always been my number 1 from Buckley. Voss has been decided a great player because he is a triple premiership captain. It could be different. If Buckley's team had won both premierships in 2002-03, then would Buckley be a better player. YES, he would, because they over-rate premiership medals to performances of individuals.
Bob Skilton was one of the greatest footballers, but played in only one final. If he played in one-two premiership teams, he would be rated even higher as an individual. I don't get it to be perfectly honest.
Who cares though. There shouldn't be a debate on Buckley>Voss>Hird/Voss>Hird>Buckley/Hird>Buckley>Voss etc. It should simply be Hird=Buckley=Voss.
doppleganger
8 Jun 2006, 12:43
It could just as easily be argued that Buckley gets far too much praise and credit, especially from football journos, simply because he plays for the club that sells the most papers.
Look, if the Pies win the flag this year and Buckley continues to put in performances like he did on Saturday night, then he will have placed himself on the same pedestal as Voss and Hird. If they don't, and Bucks resorts to having very little influence on games like he has done for the majority of this season to date, then he will forever remain a notch below Voss and Hird in the eyes of the vast majority of neutral supporters.
bucks having very little influence on games is the biggest joke in all of these arguments.....u can only influence games if u have decent cattle to play with
this year buckley has turned two games
against brisbane, & port by going forward and kicking heaps of goals
this doesn't mean in the other games he hasn't contributed
he has been a clear standout in two games out of 9 this year, and the other games he has played well, the only downer would have come against carlton.
if u reckon buckley doesn't influence games what do u make of s.west?
bucks having very little influence on games is the biggest joke in all of these arguments.....u can only influence games if u have decent cattle to play with
I was talking about this season, not his career. I'd say you have fairy decent cattle this year ;)
this year buckley has turned two games
against brisbane, & port by going forward and kicking heaps of goals
this doesn't mean in the other games he hasn't contributed
he has been a clear standout in two games out of 9 this year, and the other games he has played well, the only downer would have come against carlton.
Racking up some nice stats doesn't constitute having an influence on a game. Bucks racked up some nice mid-20's numbers against the Dogs, Cats, Bombers, Crows, Hawks. His actual influence in these games was minimal at best. So he's had 2 exceptional games, 1 stinker and a bunch of so-so games. There would be 50-60 players in the comp who have had similar seasons. Actually there are probably 10-12 Collingwood teammates who have had far more impact this season to date than Buckley.
if u reckon buckley doesn't influence games what do u make of s.west.
Westy doesn't. The Lexus mafia on BF have said so :rolleyes:. I'll bet that West's career win-loss ration is at least on a par with Buckley's, making him every bit the match-winner throughout his career than Bucks. But that's a debate for another time.
doppleganger
8 Jun 2006, 13:09
I was talking about this season, not his career. I'd say you have fairy decent cattle this year ;)
yep finally he has some good players to help him out, just like in 03 when he won the brownlow.
Racking up some nice stats doesn't constitute having an influence on a game. Bucks racked up some nice mid-20's numbers against the Dogs, Cats, Bombers, Crows, Hawks. His actual influence in these games was minimal at best. So he's had 2 exceptional games, 1 stinker and a bunch of so-so games. There would be 50-60 players in the comp who have had similar seasons. Actually there are probably 10-12 Collingwood teammates who have had far more impact this season to date than Buckley.
yep buckley so far
rnd 1 - ok v adelaide, no real pies stand out
rnd 2 - good at setting up play across half back, rocca the dominant man on the ground
rnd 3 - kangas, useful, tazza the stand out
rnd 4 - essendon, played a big role in the third quarter but didak won the game, and benny johnson was the best over the entire game
rnd 5 - port, quiet first half but turned it on in the third to win the game
rnd 6 - carlton, rubbish
rnd 7 - rested
rnd 8 - 30 touches, 16 marks but hardly noticed against the cats as every collingwood player did well
rnd 9 - doggies, nothing special
rnd 10 - BOG
there are players like swan, johnson, h.shaw who are having buckley like seasons in that they are consistently playing brilliant football, but are they winning games?? so according to your thinking buckley having got the pies over the line twice he would be doing much better
Westy doesn't. The Lexus mafia on BF have said so :rolleyes:. I'll bet that West's career win-loss ration is at least on a par with Buckley's, making him every bit the match-winner throughout his career than Bucks. But that's a debate for another time.
west played in some pretty strong teams in the mid to late 90's doggies made the finals in 94,95,97,98,99,00 so he would have had more wins easily
u have a funny concept of what influencing a game and what a match winner is
skipper kelly
8 Jun 2006, 13:12
voss
careyrips(I)
8 Jun 2006, 13:16
I have to admit i do go for collingwood and i do admit that voss and hird are 2 of the best players in the competition/ ever to play the game. I dont understand how people overall can say that Voss and Hird are better players than Buckley. Holy **** Buckley this whole season has been on and off the bench nursing his hamstring and still manages to rape voss and hird in stats even when he isnt as effective as he once was. As for Buckley not being a game breaker what in holy gods name did he do on saturday night??. He killed Brisbane (Voss's club) single handedly. Where was Voss?? absolutely no where to be seen. When was the last time Voss and Hird were even close to doing what Buckley did in the last 2-3 years? Buckley is not doubt with or even higher than Voss and Hird. You guys should really start showing more respect for one of the best players to ever play the game.
Hird >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buckley>>Voss
west played in some pretty strong teams in the mid to late 90's doggies made the finals in 94,95,97,98,99,00 so he would have had more wins easily
u have a funny concept of what influencing a game and what a match winner is
Westy was B&F in 94-95: we played finals.
Misses most of 96 with injury: we finished 2nd last.
Comes back fit and firing in 97: jump from 15th to 3rd in one season.
Plays great football for the next 4 years: make finals 4 years in a row. At the end of 2000, Collingwood wave the chequebook like there's no tomorrow (they obviously thought he was influential) - thankfully didn't bite.
Has a much-publicised issue with depression in 2001 and form suffers accordingly: Dogs miss finals for first time since 1996.
B&F's under Rohde: his only "Buckley style" 90's B&F's, where he was the only player contributing in an injury-ravaged and very poorly coached side.
Eade comes in and announces that West will not have as much influence and will be rotated far more than in the past: surprises his coach and wins yet another B&F, helping the team improves 5 spots up the ladder to just miss out on the finals.
Now that, my friend, is the very definition of influential. ;)
Stop comparing Voss to Buckley and Hird.
Bucks is a champion ari you're officially a nob. buckley has accumulated more midfield game time in his four years of his career thanvoss and hird have had in the careers. Midfields dont last being soft outside receivers.
When bucks won his brownlow, he was 2nd to hardball gets behind anthony koutafides. To call nathan buckley soft is to call james hird a gutless pig.
Voss has played in good teams all his career, and when the going gets tough, he is nowhere to be seen. He's is a great player, a champion, but not in bucks' and hirds' ilk.
Hirdy and Bucks will be immortals. buckley is the greatest centreman the game has ever seen- simple as that.
To say buckley is soft, you're literally a tool ari and you ought to get shot.
Just finally, shut up about all this talk of premierships and such when comparing bucks because:
a: bucks could well have one in the next 2 years,, ooh i'd love that backlash.
b; individuals don't win premierships, you actually need some class in the TEAM OF 22! to get you there in the first place- then to finish the job.
Bucks has played in 3 finals series since his debut in 1993. However, he has polled the most brownlow votes in the history of the game i believe, or more than anyone in the past 20 years. So really, please, stop crapping on about it. Gary Ablett never won a flag, but he was a champion and will remain 'God'.
Im a nob because Zeke started yet another Voss/Hird/Bucks thread to cream over Bucks and I didnt blow my load? Whatever. I stated that in my opinion it ends up Voss/Hird>Bucks; which is how nearly every other supporter see's it.
If you read through the thread in question, you will see I state Bucks is a champion in his own right... absolutely. I did say that he has spent much of his time as an outside receiver and I stand by that; the stats prove it too. Dont get me wrong, he can turn a match off his own boot (as he's proven many times, including Sat nite v Bris) but I still dont rate him in the same ilk as Voss and Hird. That's just my opinion and it's as simple as that.
Cheers.
Very well written Ari.
Voss/Hird>>>>>>>>>Roo/Buckley/Harvey
It is universally known to be correct.
Only Pie supporters see differently..
Done!:)
I did say that he has spent much of his time as an outside receiver and I stand by that; the stats prove it too.
Please provide said stats.
Whilst you're at it, provide the cumulative career hard-ball-get stats for the three in question.
:)
Moss Rocket
8 Jun 2006, 16:41
Stats don't mean squat here. All champs! Everyone's personal opinion after watching them play for 12 years. Everyone who watches a lot of footy. i.e ALL OF US footy heads, can make a judgement as to who they think is the best. Someone can have 15 touches and be more important than someone who has 30.
Forget the stats!!!! If stats meant anything Heath Scotland will be AA this year.
Everyone can have their own opinion. We have seen them so many times!
IMO - Voss is the Boss
person077
8 Jun 2006, 17:13
robert harvey
Nathan who?
Sounds like a dud to me.
Voss > Buckley
Voss' wife > Buckley's wife
Am I the only neutral supporter who thinks any debate on Voss vs Buckley vs Hird should also include the Roo?
His career highlights sit very well with the afore-mentioned company, and in terms of physicality I would adjuge most mid-fielders find him the most intimidating of the lot.
Kings Army
9 Jun 2006, 06:41
Crazy post Johnson. Deisel owns the centre!!!!
Everybody rates Bucks. But nobody likes Zeke and his ordinary posts. To lob out a Bucks is better than Voss thread is stupid.
As was detailed and clearly decided on Zeke's awaful post yesterday, Pies supporters think Bucks is best. Lions supporters say Voss is best.
AANNDDDDD...everyone else fron the other 14 clubs who have watched both over many years, rate VOSS the BOSS. Simple as that.
We all think Bucks is a gun, and put him in the company of Hird, Roo and Harvey.
But Voss is clearly the best!
Great post. Most non bias supporters have Voss > Hird > Bucks. Great to see a bomber supporter making sense. As much as the Pie supporters want Bucks to be a the level of Carey Ablett and Voss he is not going to get there. He will be grouped with Hird, Harvey and the Roo. Not bad company however!
And the debate about Bucks not having the cattle around him to win a flag. Take a look at the cattle Carey carried into the 96 Grand Final but still got that side over the line.
Pot, kettle, black.:rolleyes:
stop talking about yourself dimwitt. I been an Essendon supporter since 1983 so go munch on those turds :thumbsu:
People who rate Voss ahead of Buckley and Hird are insane. There is several arguments that can be over-rided in here that johnson 26 wrote, especially 'centreman', however, you can't over-ride the following:
Now, that is what I have been saying for many years, but never gets any knowledge from idiots around here.
1) Players say that the most prestigious award out there is a premiership medal.
You can't argue about that, but then again, I pose this question. How can one player be rated above another player because one is a premiership player and the other is not? It is a team game, and it is not how you rate an individual.
Voss is a great leader, a better leader than Buckley it seems, and history shows that. He took the club to four grand finals and won three of them.
Buckley is a workhorse though, and his latter career does show that the three players bunched together as one only 1-2 years ago, have now maybe appeared to seperate into an order. "We rate players over a career" is something said by anyone involved in football. From the upper echelon to the lower journo's to the fans of the game, they will all say that.
Over a career, Buckley has been the most consistent. Nathan Buckley played one of his best, if not the best game of his 260-plus game career so far.
In all fairness, I would still not like to split them up. They are three of five champions in the game, probably a level up from Harvey and Ricciuto, and then again West and Crawford etc. But over a career, Buckley is the one who has continued on playing consistent footy throughout his career, he has had several injury problems but overcome them, he has played in a worse-off team yet had individual achievements recognised by the AFL community, and has taken a side to two grand-finals out of two finals series.
Buckley should be gaining more respect and knowledge out of so-called knowledgable football fans.
So to sum all that up you are just stating that Collingwood don't have the cattle to win a premiership ? :D
Making it to a grand final is nothing. Hirdy has played in 3 Grand Finals and won 2 of them. :thumbsu:
Great footy show last night with Bucks being pumped up as the best Pie ever. I have no doubt that he is. He handled all the crap pretty well. Stayed modest. Very funny stuff. Perhaps Zeke should have just called thread..Buckley - Champion of Collingwood Champions. It would have been accurate and a little nostridamus like!
Great footy show last night with Bucks being pumped up as the best Pie ever. I have no doubt that he is. He handled all the crap pretty well. Stayed modest. Very funny stuff. Perhaps Zeke should have just called thread..Buckley - Champion of Collingwood Champions. It would have been accurate and a little nostridamus like!
Not difficult to be the best Pie ever....the past Pie players never rated anyways...:eek:
How many Pies in the Team of the Century???
0!:thumbsu:
Q. Could Buckley be perhaps a better player than past Pie players?
Who cares they weren't that good anyways...:thumbsd:
Q. Could Buckley be added on the bench of the Team of The Century ?
A. No, he would still be behind greats like, Ablett & Voss & Hird & Carey & Lockett but equal with Harvey & West
...and by the way, Bucks ain't a through & through Pie man.
He wore the Lion jumper. He started his career singing with pride the Lions theme song. :D
He missed out on being part of the Greatest National Football team, the Brisbane Lions. And had he been a part of it I am sure he would have been revered as the rest of the Lions players and Brisbane would have achieved greatness unparalleled. He lost out to the Eddie$$, he lost out winning a Flag, no make that 3 and possibly 4 or 5! he lost out being respected as a Voss, Hird etc, he is after all seen as a great player that has had his ego escalated by the "Eddie propaganda".
Loss, Loss, Loss...
He is after all an Eddie biatch! and always will be :thumbsu:
He was never a good Captain.
He would BERATE his players, he would ignore them. He admitted he needed to work on his communication with the younger players.
Here is a player that smeared his blood on another player.
A player that was known as the greatest receiver, a player that played much of his early footy in the backline gathering cheap possessions.
Lonie_from_50
9 Jun 2006, 11:24
So to sum all that up you are just stating that Collingwood don't have the cattle to win a premiership ? :D
Making it to a grand final is nothing. Hirdy has played in 3 Grand Finals and won 2 of them. :thumbsu:
Back in 2002-03. This year we have the cattle no doubt. The most important thing I am trying to say here is, To rate an individual over another individual when looking at honours, a premiership medal may be the most prized to any player, however you shouldn't be rating them individually because of a team honour. Hird didn't win two premierships, he was part of two premierships, Voss the same except an extra medal.
Saying that, Aaron Keating is better than Nathan Buckley, Gary Ablett and Bob Skilton combined. :rolleyes:
We are looking at individuals. Who cares. I am being bias, but then again, Buckley, Hird and Voss are and always will be in the league together, and I believe it should be a flip of a three-sided coin.
Lonie_from_50
9 Jun 2006, 11:25
...and by the way, Bucks ain't a through & through Pie man.
He wore the Lion jumper. He started his career singing with pride the Lions theme song. :D
He missed out on being part of the Greatest National Football team, the Brisbane Lions. And had he been a part of it I am sure he would have been revered as the rest of the Lions players and Brisbane would have achieved greatness unparalleled. He lost out to the Eddie$$, he lost out winning a Flag, no make that 3 and possibly 4 or 5! he lost out being respected as a Voss, Hird etc, he is after all seen as a great player that has had his ego escalated by the "Eddie propaganda".
Loss, Loss, Loss...
He is after all an Eddie biatch! and always will be :thumbsu:
Go get the history books out and tell me when Nathan once put on the Lions jumper!!! :rolleyes:
He missed out on being part of the Greatest National Football team, the Brisbane Lions.
Don't forget the 1995, 1996 and 1999 premierships. If the rumours are true, he personally knocked back a chance to be an integral part of those as well, as North and Carlton players have no doubt reminded him about in the past.
Buckley not being a game breaker what in holy gods name did he do on saturday night??. He killed Brisbane (Voss's club) single handedly. Where was Voss?? .
WOW!! Buckley single handedly destroyed a tired and injury ravage bottom eight side Lions in a fixture round.
Voss single handedly destroyed the pies in the one that counts, 2002 GF. Where was (I feel sorry for buckley so lets give him a medal) nathan when the game was there to be won? Who stood up in the one that counted?
Who stopped the pies forward movement of the ball unders pressure 6 times in last five minutes? Where was buckley in those same five minutes?
Until bucks can win the big ones off his own boot, Voss/Hird>daylight>Bucks
Go get the history books out and tell me when Nathan once put on the Lions jumper!!! :rolleyes:
Bears jumper, whatever, end of the day he aint a true Pie man:thumbsu:
Hindsight=Buckleys great career decision
Lonie_from_50
9 Jun 2006, 14:27
Buckley's main reason to go to Collingwood wasn't to play finals football, it was for the black and white!
And MickZU - I will watch the 2002 tape again, and tell you Voss didn't single handedly win the match for the Lions!
Cassius_Clay
9 Jun 2006, 14:39
Not difficult to be the best Pie ever....the past Pie players never rated anyways...:eek:
How many Pies in the Team of the Century???
0!:thumbsu:
Q. Could Buckley be perhaps a better player than past Pie players?
Who cares they weren't that good anyways...:thumbsd:
Q. Could Buckley be added on the bench of the Team of The Century ?
A. No, he would still be behind greats like, Ablett & Voss & Hird & Carey & Lockett but equal with Harvey & West
First class tool, who obiously has no idea at all...
doppleganger
9 Jun 2006, 15:25
Westy was B&F in 94-95: we played finals.
west didn't win the b&f in 94
Plays great football for the next 4 years: make finals 4 years in a row. At the end of 2000, Collingwood wave the chequebook like there's no tomorrow (they obviously thought he was influential) - thankfully didn't bite.
good on him he is a good player, why wouldn't the pies see if they could get him??
Has a much-publicised issue with depression in 2001 and form suffers accordingly: Dogs miss finals for first time since 1996.
couldn't have anything to do with the dogs main man, scott wynd retiring could it?? and the slowing down of romero-libba etc?
B&F's under Rohde: his only "Buckley style" 90's B&F's, where he was the only player contributing in an injury-ravaged and very poorly coached side.
Buckley style B&F's??
like 94, in a team with many ex premiership players who made finals??
like 03 when buckley was dominant in a dominant team??
When was west clearly the bulldogs stand out player?? what year when they were successful did he absolutely dominate the team??
97-98 were chris grant years
95 libba was awesome
00 was probably west most dominant year in a "successful" year
Now that, my friend, is the very definition of influential. ;)
he was not the stand out player like buckley was in a serious finals contender, when has west won a game off his own boot??
yet u think west is influential
whilst buckley isn't
Lonie_from_50
9 Jun 2006, 15:35
Just got back from getting Last Quarter stats. Now, this is to show that Voss didn't win the game for Brisbane Lions off his own boot. I did Buckley and Voss, but will only put Voss's up, because that is the discussion. I can tell you though, Buckley's stats are very very under-rated, and Voss's, well, his last quarter wasn't all that massive, well, it didn't win them the game.
Voss was great, Buckley was great.
MICHAEL VOSS - 2002 GRAND FINAL - LAST QUARTER
Kicks Eff% Long% H/Bs Eff% Disp
7 85.7 57.1 1 100 8
H/B Rec LB Get HB Get Clear CP UP
5 0 1 0 2 6
Mark Cont Spoil 1%er Bnce Tackle
2 1 0 0 1 1
Goal Beh GA SA I50 R50
0 0 0 0 3 0
Champion Data RP
48
If anyone wants me to, I will chuck up Buck's stats for the same time period.
Lonie_from_50
9 Jun 2006, 15:44
Will put them up anyway
NATHAN BUCKLEY - 2002 GRAND FINAL - LAST QUARTER
Kicks Eff% Long% H/Bs Eff% Disp
7 85.7 71.4 1 100 8
H/B Rec LB Get HB Get Clear CP UP
2 1 6 1 4 4
Mark Cont Spoil 1%er Bnce Tackle
1 0 1 1 1 0
Goal Beh GA SA I50 R50
0 0 0 0 1 0
Champion Data RP
57
doppleganger
9 Jun 2006, 15:49
is it just me or do those stats show N.Buckley with 6 hardball gets in the last quarter?? compared to Voss with 1
Voss has 5 handball receives compared to N.Buckley 2
Buckley with more contested possies then Voss
Buckley with a clearance.......Voss with none
who is the actual outside receiver??
is it just me or do those stats show N.Buckley with 6 hardball gets in the last quarter?? compared to Voss with 1
Voss has 5 handball receives compared to N.Buckley 2
Buckley with more contested possies then Voss
Buckley with a clearance.......Voss with none
who is the actual outside receiver??
Can you Pie girls stop crying. You are yet to convince 1 person other than your own, that Buckley is anywhere near the mighty player that Voss is. Time to give up.
Voss did outside receive in that quarter...walked round the outside of the stage and was presented the premiership cup! Smoke on that losers!
As i have said before, fans of 1 team rate Buckley higher than Voss
Fans of 15 teams see it the other way.
Stop sooking and get on with posting something interesting.
DG - out!:p
doppleganger
9 Jun 2006, 16:07
Can you Pie girls stop crying. You are yet to convince 1 person other than your own, that Buckley is anywhere near the mighty player that Voss is. Time to give up.
Voss did outside receive in that quarter...walked round the outside of the stage and was presented the premiership cup! Smoke on that losers!
As i have said before, fans of 1 team rate Buckley higher than Voss
Fans of 15 teams see it the other way.
Stop sooking and get on with posting something interesting.
DG - out!:p
really just want some reasons as to why Voss in particular, as Hird never really played as a midfielder is a better player then Bucks??
The same old things get trucked out, ie premiership player etc, and then false acusations regarding that Buckley is a soft outside player whilst Voss is some force in the middle, in reality this isn't the case as Buckley would get more clearances hard ball gets then Voss!
So if u dont actually know about the actual playing styles of the actual players dont bother posting comments
fans of 15 other teams simply dont like collingwood players!
To each and every one of you, finding the need to once again rehash this same tired arguement, with your own biased views I would like to on behalf of bigfooty say you all have very small penises.
Yes, including any women who may be bickering.
Thanks.
fans of 15 other teams simply dont like collingwood players![/quote]
Boo Hoo....Nobody likes us. What rubbish. How can you hate a team who's won 1 flag in 60 years. We pity, we laugh, we make fun at your nuff nuff supporters, we lock our car doors when we drive past your suburb....but we don't hate the players, we feel sorry for them.:eek:
sydney eagle
9 Jun 2006, 16:30
Many posters here might not like Collingwood, or their fans, but I think that it is petty to deny Buckley his due as a champion player who has given his all at every level over a long and illustrious career.:thumbsu:
doppleganger
9 Jun 2006, 16:37
fans of 15 other teams simply dont like collingwood players![/quote]
Boo Hoo....Nobody likes us. What rubbish. How can you hate a team who's won 1 flag in 60 years. We pity, we laugh, we make fun at your nuff nuff supporters, we lock our car doors when we drive past your suburb....but we don't hate the players, we feel sorry for them.:eek:
fact DG-man, plenty of people simply respond to Collingwood, good on u for bucking the trend and embracing all things black & white!
west didn't win the b&f in 94
Thanks for correcting (his back-to-backs were 97-98, not 94-95). Well in 97-98, we made successive prelims. He was our best player in those 2 years.
good on him he is a good player, why wouldn't the pies see if they could get him??
Wouldn have expected anything less from the Pies. At the time, they identified the best contested ball-winner in the AFL and went after him hard. Can't say I blame them: put him in and a Steinford out and it's hello premiers 2002.
couldn't have anything to do with the dogs main man, scott wynd retiring could it?? and the slowing down of romero-libba etc?
West was down on output in 2001. The other factors you mentioned were minimal by comparison with West losing form. Darcy was already our emerging no.1 ruckman. Granted Libba/Romero was a bit of factor, but not as much as West.
Buckley style B&F's??
like 94, in a team with many ex premiership players who made finals??
like 03 when buckley was dominant in a dominant team??
Just trying to point out that the majority of West's B&F's were in strong years at the club. No disrespect to Bucks: he has won his share of outstanding B&F's as you rightly pointed out.
When was west clearly the bulldogs stand out player?? what year when they were successful did he absolutely dominate the team??
97-98 were chris grant years??
Incorrect. They were West years (he wasn't just given the B&F's). Grant was similarly awesome those 2 years, but it was West who consistently won the ball out of the middle to give Grant his opportunities.
95 libba was awesome
So was West, hence B&F. Libba was great that year. People do forget what a wonderful ball playing midfielder he was from 1990-1996.
00 was probably west most dominant year in a "successful" year
he was not the stand out player like buckley was in a serious finals contender, when has west won a game off his own boot??
yet u think west is influential
whilst buckley isn't
Never once said that Buckley was not influential. Just pointing out to some of the other knuckleheads from the BF Lexus mafia (not you of course) just how influential Westy has been over a stellar career. Meatheads take note, you don't need to spear bullet passes to be influential in this game.
West was hugely influential in 1995, especially so in 1997-8, again in 2000 and again in 2005 when we just missed out. It's pretty simple: when Westy plays well, the side has prospered.
RedLegs#5
9 Jun 2006, 17:00
Stop comparing Voss to Buckley and Hird.
Bucks is a champion ari you're officially a nob. buckley has accumulated more midfield game time in his four years of his career thanvoss and hird have had in the careers. Midfields dont last being soft outside receivers.
When bucks won his brownlow, he was 2nd to hardball gets behind anthony koutafides. To call nathan buckley soft is to call james hird a gutless pig.
Voss has played in good teams all his career, and when the going gets tough, he is nowhere to be seen. He's is a great player, a champion, but not in bucks' and hirds' ilk.
Hirdy and Bucks will be immortals. buckley is the greatest centreman the game has ever seen- simple as that.
To say buckley is soft, you're literally a tool ari and you ought to get shot.
Just finally, shut up about all this talk of premierships and such when comparing bucks because:
a: bucks could well have one in the next 2 years,, ooh i'd love that backlash.
b; individuals don't win premierships, you actually need some class in the TEAM OF 22! to get you there in the first place- then to finish the job.
Bucks has played in 3 finals series since his debut in 1993. However, he has polled the most brownlow votes in the history of the game i believe, or more than anyone in the past 20 years. So really, please, stop crapping on about it. Gary Ablett never won a flag, but he was a champion and will remain 'God'.
Buckley has been a great player for Brisbane and Collingwood. A champion for 2 clubs.
doppleganger
9 Jun 2006, 17:00
Wouldn have expected anything less from the Pies. At the time, they identified the best contested ball-winner in the AFL and went after him hard. Can't say I blame them: put him in and a Steinford out and it's hello premiers 2002.
think we needed a gun ruck more, perhaps darcy instead?? sure west would of been brilliant tho!!
West was down on output in 2001. The other factors you mentioned were minimal by comparison with West losing form. Darcy was already our emerging no.1 ruckman. Granted Libba/Romero was a bit of factor, but not as much as West.
Still think ur underselling the influence that wynd had he along with libba were the spiritual leaders of the club, always going to be a drop off when they all start to drop off
Incorrect. They were West years (he wasn't just given the B&F's). Grant was similarly awesome those 2 years, but it was West who consistently won the ball out of the middle to give Grant his opportunities.
west was awesome, but as u say he had a gun forward playing at his peak, helps heaps in determining games!!
ie west wasn't the sole influence on the doggies
So was West, hence B&F. Libba was great that year. People do forget what a wonderful ball playing midfielder he was from 1990-1996.
yep taking nothing away from west in saying that libba was great too
Never once said that Buckley was not influential. Just pointing out to some of the other knuckleheads from the BF Lexus mafia (not you of course) just how influential Westy has been over a stellar career. Meatheads take note, you don't need to spear bullet passes to be influential in this game.
you did say that if buckley goes back to having little influence on games he wont be ranked with the others
West was hugely influential in 1995, especially so in 1997-8, again in 2000 and again in 2005 when we just missed out. It's pretty simple: when Westy plays well, the side has prospered.
not so simple as u had a gun forward in grant in awesome form in 97-98, and when west was dominating in 03-04 the doggies were not winning games
its pretty simple no matter how good a player u are it is the quality of the players around u that determines ur influence on games......probably why t.lockett should be rated so highly!!
is it just me or do those stats show N.Buckley with 6 hardball gets in the last quarter?? compared to Voss with 1
Voss has 5 handball receives compared to N.Buckley 2
Buckley with more contested possies then Voss
Buckley with a clearance.......Voss with none
who is the actual outside receiver??
Voss...1 tackle, in the last quarter, and what a tackle! Do you Pie fans remember it? Bam! Worth 2 goals! Go watch the game, or is it too difficult? The ferocity and desperation of that tackle is what Voss has always been about! A defining moment in the dying minutes of the game.
judburyjets
9 Jun 2006, 17:08
As much as I despise Bucks, he has been, and still is on occasions, a tremendous footballer. He has the potential to single handedly win a game for his team, which not many footballers have. All these comparisons between Buckley, Hird and Voss are trivial, they are all great players in their own right, play the game differently and should be appreciated and respected by all for the skill and greatness that they have displayed over the years. As much as i hate Bucks, I have great respect for him (as a footballer- poor bloke). It is probably a show of great respect that i despise him so much. If he wasn't such a good player, I would not dislike him so much, there are worse blokes playing the game (ie Didak) that i do not hate because i am not afraid of them tearing the dons to shreads like i am with Bucks.
you did say that if buckley goes back to having little influence on games he wont be ranked with the others
That comment was in reference to season 2006. Far too much hoo-haa has been made of Bucks' game on the weekend, when in truth he has had a fairly average year. if his great from from Saturday night continues throughout the year, and if the Pies win the flag as a result, his standing in the game will categorically be left in no doubt whatsoever.
not so simple as u had a gun forward in grant in awesome form in 97-98, and when west was dominating in 03-04 the doggies were not winning games
West was literally our only midfielder who was capable of winning his own ball. A disturbing culture of 'downhill skiing' was fostered by Wallace late in his tenure, which meant West had 3 players sweating on him in the middle throughout 2003-4, without any help whatsoever from others (who were all 30 metres ahead of the play) and certainly without any help from village idiot Rohde. We would have been Fitzroy 1996-esqe without West in 2003-4 (we were rubbish enough as it was).
doppleganger
9 Jun 2006, 17:15
That comment was in reference to season 2006. Far too much hoo-haa has been made of Bucks' game on the weekend, when in truth he has had a fairly average year. if his great from from Saturday night continues throughout the year, and if the Pies win the flag as a result, his standing in the game will categorically be left in no doubt whatsoever.
fair enough
West was literally our only midfielder who was capable of winning his own ball. A disturbing culture of 'downhill skiing' was fostered by Wallace late in his tenure, which meant West had 3 players sweating on him in the middle throughout 2003-4, without any help whatsoever from others (who were all 30 metres ahead of the play) and certainly without any help from village idiot Rohde. We would have been Fitzroy 1996-esqe without West in 2003-4 (we were rubbish enough as it was).
west, just like Bucks, has shown he can dominate in good teams & in bad teams..........the results are determined by the overall team tho the constant being consistently brilliant output from the champions
As much as I despise Bucks, he has been, and still is on occasions, a tremendous footballer. He has the potential to single handedly win a game for his team, which not many footballers have. All these comparisons between Buckley, Hird and Voss are trivial, they are all great players in their own right, play the game differently and should be appreciated and respected by all for the skill and greatness that they have displayed over the years. As much as i hate Bucks, I have great respect for him (as a footballer- poor bloke). It is probably a show of great respect that i despise him so much. If he wasn't such a good player, I would not dislike him so much, there are worse blokes playing the game (ie Didak) that i do not hate because i am not afraid of them tearing the dons to shreads like i am with Bucks.
Well said :thumbsu:
Let me say one more thing, you dont see the President or Coach of Lions or Bombers side beef up someones credentials.:thumbsd:
As good as Buckley was or has been for the CFC he will never be a better player than Hird or Voss were in their prime! Fact.:thumbsu:
doppleganger
9 Jun 2006, 18:06
Well said :thumbsu:
Let me say one more thing, you dont see the President or Coach of Lions or Bombers side beef up someones credentials.:thumbsd:
As good as Buckley was or has been for the CFC he will never be a better player than Hird or Voss were in their prime! Fact.:thumbsu:
yeah u never here sheedy give Hird any praise ever!!!
pull the other one mate
i_hate_scams
9 Jun 2006, 18:21
Stats don't mean squat here. All champs! Everyone's personal opinion after watching them play for 12 years. Everyone who watches a lot of footy. i.e ALL OF US footy heads, can make a judgement as to who they think is the best. Someone can have 15 touches and be more important than someone who has 30.
Forget the stats!!!! If stats meant anything Heath Scotland will be AA this year.
Everyone can have their own opinion. We have seen them so many times!
IMO - Voss is the Boss
RUBBISH,
there is only one BOSS, and thats'
JOS THE BOSS.
yeah u never here sheedy give Hird any praise ever!!!
pull the other one mate
Praise, mmm...:rolleyes:
Ok, so I just may have just slightly misunderstood Eddie's intentions, rightio "only praising" Buckley you say... :rolleyes:
Lonie_from_50
9 Jun 2006, 19:24
is it just me or do those stats show N.Buckley with 6 hardball gets in the last quarter?? compared to Voss with 1
Voss has 5 handball receives compared to N.Buckley 2
Buckley with more contested possies then Voss
Buckley with a clearance.......Voss with none
who is the actual outside receiver??
Yes, those stats are correct.
Lonie_from_50
9 Jun 2006, 19:27
Voss...1 tackle, in the last quarter, and what a tackle! Do you Pie fans remember it? Bam! Worth 2 goals! Go watch the game, or is it too difficult? The ferocity and desperation of that tackle is what Voss has always been about! A defining moment in the dying minutes of the game.
It came in the last minute, 70m from Brisbane's goals, straight after a ball-up. It was a tackle in which saw a Magpies player get the hard-ball get and Voss laid a great tackle to see a secondary ball-up. I doubt that tackle was worth 2 goals. We were down by 9 points at that stage, and the score stayed the same. Didn't do anything.
The thing to take note of is Voss's contested mark on the wing infront of the AFL Members. A great grab causing the turnover and ended up cramping up. Was good for the Lions as he ran down the clock a bit at the same time.
The slobbering sycophants in the media will be a little more quiet in relation to Bucks this week ;)
Must hang up the boots. Wonder if he will do it on the footy show?? Embarrassing performance out there old man!
doppleganger
13 Jun 2006, 13:16
bucks ordinary against the dees
just as voss was ordinary against the pies
both players will have these down days as their careers come to the end
Voss, Roo, Hird, Kelly, Cable, Williams far and away better players than Buckley.
Greatest pie of all time? Mrs Mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buckley.