Can somebody tell me why

[Stafford678]

there is so many people against stafford playing in our team.

Lets compare all the other players that could take his positon

Jackson- would be good to see the kid get some games but he is not a full forward does not have the size to go against the big full backs.

Hughes- A kid, body is not up to having the pressure on him, Playing as the key target at FF would serve no purpose to our team yet, is not ready for that and just take a look he had to play coburg reserves last weekend.

Knobel- Could not play FF, unlike stafford he is not known to kick goals, he can ruck but he cant play any other position.

Schulz- Has been injured most of last year and this season but lets remember he played the game vs the bulldogs and most of the saints game as a key forward and barely touched the ball anyway.


Jay will be called up this week for Pattison , and with a returning richo against the pies, i think we have a strong forward line in Richo and Schulz as the big targets with stafford pinch hitting in the ruck when simmo needs a spell and playing as a 3rd tall target.

Richo has been our only big tall forward thats looked like kicking goals this season.

Give Hughes, Pattison, Jackson the time at coburg, they need to be able to kick goals on a regular basis for coburg before they should be played in key positions for us.

Take a look at stafford closer and you will see, hes probably one of our most reliable kicks in our team, rarely misses a target, check out the bit of play on the weekend where he got the handball from browny looked up saw pettifer , snapped the ball on his left foot perfect on to the chest of pettifer, the young kids would have just blazed away or wouldnt have even seen pettifer, hardly ever misses goals, sets up goals by creating contests, and he is a massive man, if you where a little bastard of a back pocket or one of those loose men in defence and you where told to stand in the hole and block the leads, would you rather have greg stafford and matty richardson crashing into you or a skinny cleve hughes.

The guy is no star, but he has experiance somthing we don't have too much of now, been blooding a lot of kids this season which is a good thing but you need a mix of both

[Matty Knights]

Exactly..

[metallichris]

I see the main reason being that supporters believe that he is not a part of the future and is merely holding back a kid from earning a spot in the side.

Granted I would prefer to see Stafford out of the side for Schulz, but your points are very hard to argue against.

Good post. :thumbsu:

[Stafford678]

And before somebody gets in with the , its like playing 17 men on the field, he doesnt get enough kicks etc , try and compare them all, when jackson has played up forward i dont think hes got over double figures for stats this year ditto to pattison, schulz, hughes, even knobel if you want to compare him

Our game style does not suit the big blokes(apart from richo who is a freak he makes somthing out of nothing), they are never going to get more then 12 touches a game or so, and by the looks of things none of them will manage to get 4-5 goals in a game apart from richo

[tomthetiger]

Whens the last time Stafford kicked a goal?

[metallichris]

Whens the last time Stafford kicked a goal?
Against Freo.

[Stafford678]

I see the main reason being that supporters believe that he is not a part of the future and is merely holding back a kid from earning a spot in the side.

Granted I would prefer to see Stafford out of the side for Schulz, but your points are very hard to argue against.

Good post. :thumbsu:


I think we need a backup ruckman for simmo anyway and if it aint stafford, i just cant see who, im not doubting for one minute that stafford won't be here next year , but he has to stay in the team for experiance and the contests he provides, if pattison, jackson, hughes etc start kicking goals ona regular basis or play awesome footy and keep getting named in the best then yes they go in the side , there is no rush to just suddenly blood every young player or make them play every game, take a look at jobe watson, perfect example, has just come of age now and done somthing and hes been in the system for a while now.

Whats better for the team, playing experianced blokes like gas, and stafford who can contribute to the team and perhaps we can sneak into finals, giving the club a massive boost in condifence of players knowing that we can play good footy, or pumping games into players like mcguane, white, limbach, (not saying they are good or bad players just using them as example). they may very well be our future or they may not, some of our kids might play 25 games and then drop of the face of the earth

[Stafford678]

Whens the last time Stafford kicked a goal?

the same Q could be asked of knobel, pattison, jackson, hughes, and schulz

if you added up all the goals from those guys from this season and last season it might not even reach past 15 and im pretty sure hughes has around about 5 of them

Just out of interest i had a look at our goal kickers over the last season and half.

Stafford has 20 goals going back to the start of last year, jackson has the 4 that he has kicked this year, pattison 1 this year, knobel had 4 last season, hughes has kicked 3, and Schulz has kicked 1 goal in past 2(injury riddled) seasons. Thats a total of 13 goals for them.

Simmonds has 33 in the same time, Richo 82, Petts 50, Deledio 17, Brown 21, Patrick Bowden has 8 in 11 games of footy.Hyde 14, Krakouer 18, and Tucky 16.

Good sign though that we are sharing the goals around, the only problem i see is the lack of a 2nd tall option to help richo out, small forwards arnt allways going to win us games, hopefully Schulz can step up and take on the CHF role and dominate

[tomthetiger]

the same Q could be asked of knobel, pattison, jackson, hughes, and schulz

if you added up all the goals from those guys from this season and last season it might not even reach past 15 and im pretty sure hughes has around about 5 of them

Just out of interest i had a look at our goal kickers over the last season and half.

Stafford has 20 goals going back to the start of last year, jackson has the 4 that he has kicked this year, pattison 1 this year, knobel had 4 last season, hughes has kicked 3, and Schulz has kicked 1 goal in past 2(injury riddled) seasons. Thats a total of 13 goals for them.

Simmonds has 33 in the same time, Richo 82, Petts 50, Deledio 17, Brown 21, Patrick Bowden has 8 in 11 games of footy.Hyde 14, Krakouer 18, and Tucky 16.

Good sign though that we are sharing the goals around, the only problem i see is the lack of a 2nd tall option to help richo out, small forwards arnt allways going to win us games, hopefully Schulz can step up and take on the CHF role and dominate

Huh? None of those players aside from Pattison are in the side? Besides, Stafford is playing primarily as our key forward, with Richo out and is yet to kick a goal to my understanding. Bringing Knobel into this isn't going to work. Pretty sure Hughes, Jackson and Shulz can't kick many goals when they're not in the side, but given their form in the 2s (particulary Shulz), if one of them was in the side, they would've snagged a few in the last few weeks. I was watching Stafford on the weekend, all alone in the 50 virtually by himself, small opponent, all he had to do was lead, but he has 0 pace at this stage in his career. Given the opposition, a Shulz or a Jackson or even a Limbach probably would've kicked at least 2-3 goals.

[The Dice Man]

Simmonds has 33 in the same time, Richo 82, Petts 50, Deledio 17, Brown 21, Patrick Bowden has 8 in 11 games of footy.Hyde 14, Krakouer 18, and Tucky 16.




Dont mean to nitpick here Staff, but Browny has more goals than that if you're going back to teh start of last year. He was on 34 odd goals when he did his leg, he had the best avg/per week of goals in the comp last year up until the Whelan incident..

[jezza]

The reason is because Stafford is unable to contribute for longer than a single 10 minute spell early in a match. He's played one good game this year and one serviceable game, the rest have been poor.

Right now he's in the side because Richo and Schulz were unavailable. I expect him to play this week because I think Knobel will miss with an injury and we need a backup ruckman. The side to me looks a lot better with Schulz up forward and Knobel giving Simmonds a spell in the ruck.

Stafford will get nursed through to 200 games then we probably won't see him again.

[Weaver]

I also quite like Stafford around when the other forwards are the likes of Meyer, Deledio, Tambling. The opposition can't step too far over the line in sniping those kids with Mr Elbows around the place.

For a forward line featuring Nathan Brown to work it must play pretty smart. Lots of stuff about keeping space open, and timing leads and blocks. Also true of a forward line where Pettifer is the CHF. An experienced guy like Stafford knows all that stuff.

Jackson doesn't know when to time his leads or where to lead too. Guys like Hughes and Limbach might get a goal or two but they could disrupt the workings of the forward line because they don't know when to stay away from the contests and when to lead.

Stafford, unlike Hughes, Limbach or Jackson can take the forward line ruck contests and let Simmonds sit the kick behind making it tough for teams to bring the ball out of defence.

There is a frustrating attitude amongst many Richmond supporters at that moment. If a guy is over 25 his value is immediately discounted by 50%, and if he is under 23 he gets a 50% bonus. A lot of people aren't making assessments on actual performances.

[True Thylacine]

There is a frustrating attitude amongst many Richmond supporters at that moment. If a guy is over 25 his value is immediately discounted by 50%, and if he is under 23 he gets a 50% bonus. A lot of people aren't making assessments on actual performances.

An interesting post given you stated in an earlier thread he was merely marking time to 200 games as agreed with Wallace. Perhaps you also have had a change of heart, Nevertheless I think your statement here is partly true. I have been a detractor of Staff's but nothing to do with age. His performances until Freo were nothing to write home about, in fact well below par so I was of the belief that if we were gonna have to make a selection why not go for crap youth rather than crap age on the basis that the youth my be investing in our future. I have no trouble in realising that youth does have to learn from someone and Staff seems to be improving but he was terrible earlier and even looked like he wasnt that keen. He has got a 2nd chance and seems to want to play more so good on him and maybe the stint in the Burgs did him good.

With Richo back maybe another story and it is also very apparent that we can now afford to select on match ups so who knows whats in store.

[corporal]

Please refer to the million other posts on this topic

ie The man can't run, not fit enough to ruck, not kicking goals, not creating much of a contest, not doing anything really.

But hell put him in the side because he is "big bodied".

[Weaver]

An interesting post given you stated in an earlier thread he was merely marking time to 200 games as agreed with Wallace. Perhaps you also have had a change of heart

Don't remember saying that.


... I was of the belief that if we were gonna have to make a selection why not go for crap youth rather than crap age on the basis that the youth my be investing in our future. ...

I understand this arguement but actually believe the opposite.

Guys like Stafford, Gaspar and Chaffey won't improve playing in the reserves. No value keeping them there.

On the other hand I see a lot of value in making it as tough as possible for the likes of Hartigan and Jackson to hold down a senior spot. Keep raising the bar on them, keep oblidging them to improve and address their weaknesses. We have had a lot of kids come into the team in the past who are basically the same player in game 100 as game 1.

Recruit kids - yep
Develop kids - yep
Stop recycling duds - yep
Give kids an early taste so they know the level they have to get too - yep
Give out easy games purely based on birth certificates - no thanks.

I think that in the long-term that is counter-productive.

I don't like the idea of us giving Pattison 13 more games this year on the basis that he might come good. Just give him games for playing at the level he is at.

I do like the idea of continually telling him, you have to get better.

I can forgive Satfford for his errors and lack of impact because he is never going to get better and he is not part of the future.

But when Pattison makes 4-5 terrible handball errors I want the club to drop him. Tell him that he can't simply give off the first option without thinking. He can't simply handball because a teammate calls for it. He has to get back from the mark and make intellegent decisions. Now go back to Coburg, prove you've learnt your lesson, and come back into the seniors when you have.


He has got a 2nd chance and seems to want to play more so good on him and maybe the stint in the Burgs did him good.

Was very good back with the Burgers and merit does have to play some part in team selection. Sends a bad message when the guys who play well in the twos get overlooked and the guys who play poorly get promoted. Not good for the long-term culture of the club.

With Richo back maybe another story and it is also very apparent that we can now afford to select on match ups so who knows whats in store.

I think the return of Richo makes Staff a bit safer. Very very few guys have found a way to combine with Richo other than Benny Gale and Brown. I don't think Schulz, Pattison, Jackson or Hughes are quite ready for taking on that challenge. Staff is OK as the long-bomb, get-out-of-jail option in the goal square and has looked at his best with Richo around.

[True Thylacine]

I see the merit in your points Weav and I was also sure I was quoting you correctly but if not...I recall it being said but someone who I deemed well informed anyhow...if not you..apologies.

However I will possibly concede Staff a spot on the here and now but with Richo back I would seriously consider the merit of 2 ruckmen, particularly after seeing Fraser get mauled by 2 good rucks in Jamar and White and just how important first use and clearances are. I would like us to persist with Knobel albeit in primarily a ruck not a forward role at every opportunity as he is the short/medium term 2nd ruck option.

Staff has had lots of opportunities to show how well he works with Richo but sadly hasnt really delivered this year in that dept. He has had a couple of good quarters in Brisbane and against Freo but he then vanished just as quickly.

Staff offers us something by way of a forward option but is it really worth pursuing that just for this year, unless he is a likely starter again next year? . While Staff is playing well, remains keen, leave him. Should that change....so must our thinking for mine.

[1980]

I also quite like Stafford around when the other forwards are the likes of Meyer, Deledio, Tambling. The opposition can't step too far over the line in sniping those kids with Mr Elbows around the place.

For a forward line featuring Nathan Brown to work it must play pretty smart. Lots of stuff about keeping space open, and timing leads and blocks. Also true of a forward line where Pettifer is the CHF. An experienced guy like Stafford knows all that stuff.

Jackson doesn't know when to time his leads or where to lead too. Guys like Hughes and Limbach might get a goal or two but they could disrupt the workings of the forward line because they don't know when to stay away from the contests and when to lead.

Stafford, unlike Hughes, Limbach or Jackson can take the forward line ruck contests and let Simmonds sit the kick behind making it tough for teams to bring the ball out of defence.

There is a frustrating attitude amongst many Richmond supporters at that moment. If a guy is over 25 his value is immediately discounted by 50%, and if he is under 23 he gets a 50% bonus. A lot of people aren't making assessments on actual performances.

Weaver are you saying the Stafford's performance's have been acceptable in his past 4-6 games, because he's been shocking.

The guy's body is not up to competing any longer at this level.

[1980]

there is so many people against stafford playing in our team.

Lets compare all the other players that could take his positon

Jackson- would be good to see the kid get some games but he is not a full forward does not have the size to go against the big full backs.

Hughes- A kid, body is not up to having the pressure on him, Playing as the key target at FF would serve no purpose to our team yet, is not ready for that and just take a look he had to play coburg reserves last weekend.

Knobel- Could not play FF, unlike stafford he is not known to kick goals, he can ruck but he cant play any other position.

Schulz- Has been injured most of last year and this season but lets remember he played the game vs the bulldogs and most of the saints game as a key forward and barely touched the ball anyway.


Jay will be called up this week for Pattison , and with a returning richo against the pies, i think we have a strong forward line in Richo and Schulz as the big targets with stafford pinch hitting in the ruck when simmo needs a spell and playing as a 3rd tall target.

Richo has been our only big tall forward thats looked like kicking goals this season.

Give Hughes, Pattison, Jackson the time at coburg, they need to be able to kick goals on a regular basis for coburg before they should be played in key positions for us.

Take a look at stafford closer and you will see, hes probably one of our most reliable kicks in our team, rarely misses a target, check out the bit of play on the weekend where he got the handball from browny looked up saw pettifer , snapped the ball on his left foot perfect on to the chest of pettifer, the young kids would have just blazed away or wouldnt have even seen pettifer, hardly ever misses goals, sets up goals by creating contests, and he is a massive man, if you where a little bastard of a back pocket or one of those loose men in defence and you where told to stand in the hole and block the leads, would you rather have greg stafford and matty richardson crashing into you or a skinny cleve hughes.

The guy is no star, but he has experiance somthing we don't have too much of now, been blooding a lot of kids this season which is a good thing but you need a mix of both

You cant just do these "on paper" comparisons. Stafford is copping criticism for not playing well and being out of form. Name which of his past 6 appearances he did OK?

When a player is out of form he should be dropped, and in Stafford's case, he's not going to be around next season, so we can afford to drop games this season by giving more game time to the likes of Shulz or developing a guy like Hughes. Next season we dont have that luxury.

[The Dice Man]

Staff makes the opposition think twice when he's in the area, similar to Aaron Hammil. I dont mind him in the squad at all atm because simply Hughes is too light to impose himself, and the further the season wears on, the more kids in their first year like Hughes, will begin to fatigue.

[corporal]

The guy's body is not up to competing any longer at this level.

Exactly why I think he should be replaced by someone who can compete for a full game.

Sure if Stafford regains fitness and shows form in the VFL bring him back,

however if a bloke is not fit and is not doing anything on the field surely someone else needs to get a run especially when we have a number of young talls who are kicking goals for Coburg.

Schultz in, Stafford out

[corporal]

Staff makes the opposition think twice when he's in the area .

Think twice about running off their man?

[The Dice Man]

Think twice about running off their man?


nah, more like wondering if they're about to cop a king fui to the groin, nose, ribs, skull.

Staff is fantastically reckless.:thumbsu:

[corporal]

nah, more like wondering if they're about to cop a king fui to the groin, nose, ribs, skull.

Staff is fantastically reckless.:thumbsu:

True who could ever forget that elbow to Everitts cheek!,

I like the Staf, I just don't think we can carry a bloke who isn't doing anything on the field (other then a possible errant opposition fracture)

[1980]

Think twice about running off their man?

Exactly

[Crumden]

Stafford is in the team because Knobel had a worse game against freo than Stafford did. In the first quarter of that game, we were getting thumped in the centre hit-outs. Knobel came on and was competitive in the ruck, but gave away a 50 m and a free kick from undisciplined acts. Then he made a couple of bad errors up forward later in the game - dropped a mark and missed any easy set shot, costing us two goals. We need one of them to give Simmonds a rest and have a monster up forward to balance out our forward structure, and Staff is the default option at the moment.

One thing that has been disappointing is his goal kicking. Usually a very good kick for goal, but has shanked a few this year.

[jezza]

I think the return of Richo makes Staff a bit safer. Very very few guys have found a way to combine with Richo other than Benny Gale and Brown. I don't think Schulz, Pattison, Jackson or Hughes are quite ready for taking on that challenge. Staff is OK as the long-bomb, get-out-of-jail option in the goal square and has looked at his best with Richo around.


While that's has always been an issue, we've committed another 2 seasons to Richo and that means 2 post-Stafford seasons so somebody else has to start learning to play with him and better to start them learning now rather than wait until next season.

[Matty Knights]

So please explain to us all (detractors of Stafford that is) what you think is an acceptable effort from Staff week to week?

I imagine most will say the sort of stuff he produced against Brisbane.

That maybe a fair call but I think you'll find his place in the team is all about structure.

Off the ball physicality and the ability to attract two defenders in a contest are his greatest assets. If he bags 3 or 4 goals thats a bonus in my books.

If i was a small forward I'd rather have Staff looking out for me rather than Cleve:thumbsu:

[corporal]

See Sundays game against the hawks for final answer to this thread

[The Dice Man]

So please explain to us all (detractors of Stafford that is) what you think is an acceptable effort from Staff week to week?

I imagine most will say the sort of stuff he produced against Brisbane.

That maybe a fair call but I think you'll find his place in the team is all about structure.

Off the ball physicality and the ability to attract two defenders in a contest are his greatest assets. If he bags 3 or 4 goals thats a bonus in my books.

If i was a small forward I'd rather have Staff looking out for me rather than Cleve:thumbsu:


1 kick, 1 mark... Even Im not gonna defend him anymore.

Adios Amigos.