View Full Version : C. Judd for J. Brown
94_Eagles
15 Jun 2006, 04:34
Would ya do it?
underthebridge
15 Jun 2006, 04:39
Yes.
No.
I think we can and will win a premiership with our current KPP's anyways. No need to trade away Judd.
wce4premiership
15 Jun 2006, 11:40
yes i would
No I wouldn't...
whilst it would be nice to have a KPP on our list like Brown, and the dept in our midfield could cover Judd, I think Brown is just too injury prone.
Eagles 4 Mine
15 Jun 2006, 13:10
No way I know that our stocks in the midfield are good but I think that this would be a rob peter to pay paul solution.
Every body would love Browny running around in there side , I would rather get Fev and I don't think that we would have to give up as much to get a decent forward.
chelsworthgale
15 Jun 2006, 13:15
dont be silly... judd is an awesome mid fielder the good thing about him is he is 190cm+ and can take a grab... in his later years you play him up forward as a key forward... Pavlich would look better in your line up... Brown will be a brissy boy forever and if all fails that I would say Geelong would make a massive pass using his ties to Melbourne as incentive
Yes, in a New York minute.
Juddy may or may not want to leave so a trade that would benefit both sides would be welcome
However is Brissy a destination that Chris would go to?
Actually just reading up on J.Brown he seems to be out of action for the next 4 weeks with a back injury!! That is an injury that must be monitered so with that my reply has changed to No
peterss
15 Jun 2006, 15:04
No...
Milkman
15 Jun 2006, 15:27
Hell no.
Over my dead body.
Magnum27
15 Jun 2006, 16:04
You have to be kidding :eek:
goal sneak
15 Jun 2006, 17:46
Give you anyone on the Dees list for Judd. Hell take any 2 players and we will have Judd back where he wants to be.
dont be silly... judd is an awesome mid fielder the good thing about him is he is 190cm+ and can take a grab... in his later years you play him up forward as a key forward... Pavlich would look better in your line up... Brown will be a brissy boy forever and if all fails that I would say Geelong would make a massive pass using his ties to Melbourne as incentive
if i was a wc supporter: yes! midfield depth is second to none, will encourage the greater development of the young midfielders. cousins, kerr, embley, stenglein etc can shoulder the load more than enough. in his later years...he may well be playing for a melb club IMO. so instead of a frantic trading period trying to salvage sumthing before he enters the PSD (vic club will be on the bottom of the table :P). jonathan brown is young, has cleaned up his behavioural issues, injury prone...yes a tad but wc need a bash and crash forward to complement the leading types of staker and hunter. is captaincy material just like judd, so u dont lose leadership qualities, age is barely different. hardly rob peter to pay paul situation cos peter (midfield) is rich enough to deal with the robbery whereas paul is struggling a bit.
if i was a bris supporter: no! midifeld is serviceable at the moment, has good youngsters coming through in hadley, risichitelli, sherman, etc to trade brown now would leave a gaping hole in the attack unable to be compensated by bradshaw. brisbane atm dont look like having to drop to the foot of the table before making another premiership assault, to trade brown would mean that as a superstar as judd is (i rate him as best in the afl) it would a situation of robbing peter to pay paul where peter is a decent wage earner who cant deal with the robbery and paul is a young person who is smart and looks to have a promising rich future.
so ive dragged on a bit but thats my opinion
macca69
15 Jun 2006, 17:55
If Brown was injury free and had a good tribuneral record then I probably would do it, but given Brown's poor injury/suspension record I would be disapointed if we did do it.
Goldenblue
15 Jun 2006, 18:17
Would ya do it?
No way.
No disrespect to Brown, but I like having Judd in our side.
for jon brown? no. he injury prone and only when hes fully fit does he have the impact of judd
now for a 22 year old young wayne carey....
for jon brown? no. he injury prone and only when hes fully fit does he have the impact of judd
now for a 22 year old young wayne carey....
cant just say that when both fully fit judd=brown but brown=injury prone so therefore judd>Brown
you need to look at wat ur team needs and by god does it need a strong marking great player that kicks goals routinely!
a team with 22 of the best midfielders to ever play the game aint gonna be that great a team and wc has many great midifelders but not many great forwards.
imonebadddman
15 Jun 2006, 19:40
With Brown's imjuries over the past few years you would say Judd. Although would take a fully fit Brown over Judd in our current side.
Black Thunder
15 Jun 2006, 19:51
Even taking this purely as a hypothetical, as good as Brown is i just couldn't ever trade Judd.
But then as good as Judd is, i reckon our midfield depth could cover his loss (plus your always a half decent chance at recruiting a good midfielder, although not in the mould as Judd), and a CHF like Jonathon Brown is just too good to refuse.
I honestly think if it was touted seriously the Eagles management would take it, but i wouldn't. I just wouldn't be the same watching another club run around with Chris Judd.
Not that Brown is a better footballer. Both are about even (Judd slightly ahead) but as we all know a great CHF adds more to your team then even the greatest midfielder could (which Judd isn't the latter yet - nor is Brown in the former category yet).......
Even taking this purely as a hypothetical, as good as Brown is i just couldn't ever trade Judd.
But then as good as Judd is, i reckon our midfield depth could cover his loss (plus your always a half decent chance at recruiting a good midfielder, although not in the mould as Judd), and a CHF like Jonathon Brown is just too good to refuse.
I honestly think if it was touted seriously the Eagles management would take it, but i wouldn't. I just wouldn't be the same watching another club run around with Chris Judd.
Not that Brown is a better footballer. Both are about even (Judd slightly ahead) but as we all know a great CHF adds more to your team then even the greatest midfielder could (which Judd isn't the latter yet - nor is Brown in the former category yet).......
lol i know wat u mean about judd running around for another club, its been gut wrenching seeing the wakelins enjoy good years at their club and seeing shane in two GF's and big bad barry in a premiership team, but then i think of who we picked up and its good, big frase, aaron hamill, voss, milne, gram and ackland (not great but needed). u need to weigh it up. i believe the eagles management would consider it and take it, but it would be a brave move, brownlow medallist and all, think of the woewodin trade, caused an uproar with supporters, they wouldnt want that.
watch wat u said, great CHF v great-EST midfielder, tru judd is not in the greatest midfielder category but surely Brown is a great CHF, not the greatest, but great
wce4premiership
16 Jun 2006, 00:32
in all seriousness i would love to see judd in someone elses midfield and then play us. of course i would rather keep him but i still think it will be wierd and thrilling to watch
dyertribe
16 Jun 2006, 01:21
I know this is all hypothetical, but to the ones who've said yes, please guys some perspective apart from all the media hype.
- Jonathan Brown is 24 years old (25 next year).
- He has never won an All-Australian guernsey.
- He has never won a Best and Fairest.
- He has played a minimum of 20 games in the single season just once in his career.
- His PB for goals in a single season sits at a measley 39 - which granted, he should easily surpass this year provided he can regain his fitness and form after this latest setback.
- There were massive question marks on his temperament - which granted, have subsided as he seems to have matured and calmed down.
- There are however massive question marks over his ability to ever play out a full season (say a minimum of 20 minor round games + 3 or 4 finals) as his bash and crash style simply isn't conducive to any sort of longevity in the game.
Now compare this to Judd who at the age of still just 22 (23 in September), is a Brownlow Medallist, Club Best and Fairest, Norm Smith Medallist and will only get better.
I know you guys are one quality power forward away from a flag, but to trade Judd for Brown would be absolute stupidity.
larrikin
16 Jun 2006, 01:35
KPP are worth so much more than midfielders, so this debate is weighted, especially when you think about our club.
I still think at least half of our problem is how we kick to the KPP. I have a theory on all of this (they all roll their eyes)
Do you notice Adam Hunter stands up when we throw him forward (I suspect you have). When do we throw Hunter forward? When we are in the *****. What does our midfield do? They don't muck around with the footy and kick it to a lead, 1 or 1 or pack contest in a dangerous position before the opposition can get numbers back - at all costs. Lynchy and co must absolutely spew, they never get that kind of offensive delivery in the first 3 quarters.
I actually think the strength of our midfield is to the detriment of our forwards - the opposition don't know what they are going to do, but heck, neither do our forwards - until it becomes panic time.
section8
16 Jun 2006, 04:30
Put Brown in a side that is regularly flooded and he's no longer as effective.
Judd.
Adelaide Hawk
16 Jun 2006, 08:02
A midfielder for a winnning CHF? Kidding right?
dyertribe
16 Jun 2006, 17:40
A midfielder for a winnning CHF? Kidding right?
?
This isn't the sophomoric "Brown has three Premierships" argument is it?
?
This isn't the sophomoric "Brown has three Premierships" argument is it?
Dont try and make Brown not look as good as he is.
He is the equal to Judd, dont care what he has won, his impact is as good, if not, better than Judd.
You would be crazy not to take.
dyertribe
16 Jun 2006, 18:20
Dont try and make Brown not look as good as he is.
What, because he actually isn't?
Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the joint fanboy/media Jonathan Brown bandwagon until he actually puts up numbers that validate his mythical reputation as one of the game's premier players on a consistent basis.
There are fools comparing him to Carey, I mean come on - the guy's alltime best output in a single season is 39 goals yet people have him on this massive pedestal based on what he might do.
If he was the #1 footballer in the comp why is he fast approaching AFL middle age without a single individual accolade to his name?
He is the equal to Judd, dont care what he has won, his impact is as good, if not, better than Judd.
He is not equal to Judd.
As for impact, what, because he booted 8 on Ty Zantuck and Ted Richards last year at the Dome or booted 8 goals on Joel Smith, Jarryd Roughead and Luke Hodge at Carrara?
If you actually push the hype aside, his individual accomplishments pale into insignificance when compared to most of the elite footballers in the comp, let alone Judd.
But what I've said here won't register at all as Brown's reputation has developed some supernatural knack to somehow transcend facts and actual performance.
Brown is potential, which may yet be ruined by cumulative injury - nothing more.
Judd is realised potential, with so much more to come.
Isandula
16 Jun 2006, 20:56
Get rid of Judd??? I certaintly hope not!! not for any player!
I know this is all hypothetical, but to the ones who've said yes, please guys some perspective apart from all the media hype.
- Jonathan Brown is 24 years old (25 next year).
- He has never won an All-Australian guernsey.
- He has never won a Best and Fairest.
- He has played a minimum of 20 games in the single season just once in his career.
- His PB for goals in a single season sits at a measley 39 - which granted, he should easily surpass this year provided he can regain his fitness and form after this latest setback.
- There were massive question marks on his temperament - which granted, have subsided as he seems to have matured and calmed down.
- There are however massive question marks over his ability to ever play out a full season (say a minimum of 20 minor round games + 3 or 4 finals) as his bash and crash style simply isn't conducive to any sort of longevity in the game.
Now compare this to Judd who at the age of still just 22 (23 in September), is a Brownlow Medallist, Club Best and Fairest, Norm Smith Medallist and will only get better.
I know you guys are one quality power forward away from a flag, but to trade Judd for Brown would be absolute stupidity.
24 this yr...so? u saying thats old?
no all-australian guernsey, so wat? thats hardly surpising considering the games he has missed.
WERE massive question marks, not anymore. a real leader now, commands respect, like judd, so nothing lost on that front.
Judd will only get better? he is a superstar, absolutely no doubt, but dont know how much better he can get, mayb if he is tried int he forward line and kicks bags of goals, but why wouldnt you just have brown then?
yes there are question marks over fitness but he is still young and it would be worth the gamble
Put Brown in a side that is regularly flooded and he's no longer as effective.
Judd.
that is ridiculous. no longer as effective, but MUCH more important, put a player who can regularly carve up defences and take contested marks wk in wk out would be much more important in a side that gets flooded. do you even know what flooding is? its the dropping back of numbers to cut space off for forwards to LEAD into. it is much more to the detriment of leading forwards like lloyd and bradshaw, brown becomes super valuable in flooding situations
If he was the #1 footballer in the comp why is he fast approaching AFL middle age without a single individual accolade to his name?
u measuring things on individual accolades? its all about team success and brown is the epitomy of that, he has three premiership medallions, contributed significantly to the lions dominance! WC are looking for ppl who contribute to premierships not more brownlow medallists playing in losing Grand Finals.
Not a chance. I would much prefer to have Judd playing for us.
section8
17 Jun 2006, 18:52
that is ridiculous. no longer as effective, but MUCH more important, put a player who can regularly carve up defences and take contested marks wk in wk out would be much more important in a side that gets flooded. do you even know what flooding is? its the dropping back of numbers to cut space off for forwards to LEAD into. it is much more to the detriment of leading forwards like lloyd and bradshaw, brown becomes super valuable in flooding situations
Of course Brown would be a welcome addition to west coast but not at the cost of Judd, who with his quick acceleration to break packs is invaluable in countering congestion around the ball which goes hand in hand with flooding. We would be robbing Peter to pay Paul with this trade.
Of course Brown would be a welcome addition to west coast but not at the cost of Judd, who with his quick acceleration to break packs is invaluable in countering congestion around the ball which goes hand in hand with flooding. We would be robbing Peter to pay Paul with this trade.
robbing peter to pay paul...where hav i heard that...oh wait earlier on in this thread, and ill say it again, u can afford the loss of judd in a superstar midfield for the benefit gained in a currently average forward line. i really thought that wc supporters trumped their midfield up, maybe the past two weeks has dented their confidence...
section8
18 Jun 2006, 01:17
robbing peter to pay paul...where hav i heard that...oh wait earlier on in this thread, and ill say it again, u can afford the loss of judd in a superstar midfield for the benefit gained in a currently average forward line. i really thought that wc supporters trumped their midfield up, maybe the past two weeks has dented their confidence...
How many pack marks do you see these days? The only way Brown for Judd would be justified is if he was taking three or more per game. You don't see many one-on-one marking contests in our forward 50. You don't watch us on a weekly basis though so you're excused.
Im with Dyertribe on this one.... Brown's major drawback is that he doesnt kick enough goals? Lynch can kick 39 goals in a season. So how will Brown make us any better?
If we trade Judd we lose more than 50% of our capacity to generate hard ball gets and clearances.
Without that supply, Brown's impact at CHF would be severley curtailed.
Wouldn't even dream of trading him.
yatesie
25 Jun 2006, 13:03
hell no
think about what your saying here
brown for judd we have already got a big man who is stating to devlop well remember lynchee
dyertribe
30 Jun 2006, 01:23
Sorry for the delay on reply, forgot about this thread due to the world cup and exams, etc.
24 this yr...so? u saying thats old?
no all-australian guernsey, so wat? thats hardly surpising considering the games he has missed.
24 (25 next year) is AFL middle age - especially for KPPs who often don't last as long due to cumulative injury.
And according to tonight's WLF he has a stress fracture of the hip now and will be out for at least another month.
Any Football Operations Manager would be negligent not to take Brown's lack of durability or longevity into account.
At this rate he'll be a cripple by 30, let alone one of the supposed all-time greats.
WERE massive question marks, not anymore. a real leader now, commands respect, like judd, so nothing lost on that front.
Granted.
Judd will only get better? he is a superstar, absolutely no doubt, but dont know how much better he can get, mayb if he is tried int he forward line and kicks bags of goals, but why wouldnt you just have brown then?
Judd's only 22, provided he doesn't develop any cumulative injury which curtails his progress he'd have to get better with experience and age.
yes there are question marks over fitness but he is still young and it would be worth the gamble
See above.
It's beginning to look rather grim unfortunately.
u measuring things on individual accolades? its all about team success and brown is the epitomy of that, he has three premiership medallions, contributed significantly to the lions dominance! WC are looking for ppl who contribute to premierships not more brownlow medallists playing in losing Grand Finals.
I've had this argument before.
Brown was a pup during Brisbane's threepeat - young, raw and on the rise, nothing more.
Individual accolades are the measure of players who can do the business week-in week-out, which is ultimately the form and ingredient you need in order to win a flag. While Brown has the talent he has never been able to perform week-in week-out for 15-22 games a season. Judd has.
You can fob off the facts all you like, but it's the truth.
Knighty
30 Jun 2006, 01:30
Give you anyone on the Dees list for Judd. Hell take any 2 players and we will have Judd back where he wants to be.Now that he's over his hamstring injury, Judd is already back where he wants to be.