View Full Version : IF, Gardiner is successful in his comeback....
TheReason
15 Jun 2006, 19:34
If Gardiner comes back into the team in the next few weeks and is 75% of the player he used to be. No injuries, disciplined and plays for the remainder of the year....
A huge call and there's lots of water to pass under the bridge.... lots of If's, But's, Maybe's....
Where does that leave Seaby, come the end of the year?
Does he now become trade bait? And what would we get for him?
Lynch drops a mark
15 Jun 2006, 19:35
no chance they will trade seaby
will be a gun but needs time to develop
Cerpin Taxt
15 Jun 2006, 19:36
If anything it makes Gardiner trade bait.
it leaves seaby on our list, as the backup ruckman
look, ruckmen get injured (especially gardy), and teams do play with 3 ruckmen in the team.
seabs is far too good not to get his oppurtunities with us.
he will stay on the list.
eagleskickass
15 Jun 2006, 19:56
But, would Seaby stay if he wasn't going to get regular games when he COULD elsewhere? I mean, its already hard enough on him now getting limited game time, it REALLY affects him. He grew up a MAD KEEN WCE fan, but I dont think even that would make him stay if he wasnt getting a game, this is his career for now, he needs to get the most out of it!
If he isnt getting a game...why would he stay?
But, would Seaby stay if he wasn't going to get regular games when he COULD elsewhere? I mean, its already hard enough on him now getting limited game time, it REALLY affects him. He grew up a MAD KEEN WCE fan, but I dont think even that would make him stay if he wasnt getting a game, this is his career for now, he needs to get the most out of it!
If he isnt getting a game...why would he stay?
well, there are a hundred reasons. for starters, maybe hes not keen on playing for anyone else but the eagles, maybe hes doesent want to travel interstate, just to get a few extra games earlier.
maybe he'd be happy to be the number 3 ruckman at the eagles for a few years until he moves to number 2 or even 1.
if he really wanted to go to chase what could be only 15 or 20 more games over his career (factoring in say 4 more injury interupted seasons from gardy, with cox say missing 15 games over that time too), then im sure the eagles would accomodate him and try to trade him.
we would be much poorer for him leaving though, hes going to be a very good player. and i honestly think he is going to play more games that he misses over the couple of years he is in the 3 spot, with the amount of times there will be an injury to cox or gardy, or we play three ruckmen.
most teams would kill to have three AFL quality ruckmen on their list.
Monocle
15 Jun 2006, 20:24
[most teams would kill to have three AFL quality ruckmen on their list.[/QUOTE]
Correction most teams would kill to have two
That aside does anyone know when Seaby is contracted till ?
I am sure that Gardiner is out of contract at seasons end.
I would rather part with MG than with Seaby, however my preference would be to retain both of them.:thumbsu:
i reckon if gardiner is successful in his comeback then it makes wc want to trade him more as they will get more on the market as opposed to squat. if he was **** they might consider leaving him in the WAFL and used as a 3rd ruck, if theres an injury.
saints would love three quality ruckmen, but rix is promising, like wat i see
eagleskickass
15 Jun 2006, 20:28
i spose one thing going for us is that he LOVES Mukka and his family and would find it hard to leave WA. And he'd never play for the purple:P
Just dont know if he'd like to play his career out in the WAFL...cause if Gards comes good he will still be around for 4-5 years, so it would be more than 20 games he would miss out on over his career...
WeSt CoAsT EaGLeS
15 Jun 2006, 20:57
I'd rather trade Gardiner + a draft pick POSSIBLY for Jonathan Brown (as Jon Brown would be my main trading target for the end of this year).
On the other hand I doubt Woosha would give Seaby away.
i spose one thing going for us is that he LOVES Mukka and his family and would find it hard to leave WA. And he'd never play for the purple:P
Just dont know if he'd like to play his career out in the WAFL...cause if Gards comes good he will still be around for 4-5 years, so it would be more than 20 games he would miss out on over his career...
yeah, i dont know. i dont think its unreasonable to expect cox and gardy to miss 10 games a year between them for the next couple. a single knee injury means a full and heavy season for seabs. plus his form puts pressure on the other two to perform.
"if" gards comes good, "if" he and cox stay fit for 5 years, "if" seabs form doesent warrant playing 3 ruckmen.
last year, lynch was our third choice full forward, and he played 23 odd games.
thats if there is no configuration of the team that has three ruckmen. with cox and gardy abilities and our general lack of tall options, there are as third tall forward and back, and a resting pocket where they can play.
there will always be oppurtunities for a kid as talented as seabs.
macca69
15 Jun 2006, 21:15
Why not play Cox at CHF/FF and play Gardy/Seaby in the ruck? I think Cox in the forwardline would be a potential matchwinner, great mark and set-shot, although maybe playing him on a wing would untilise his mobility more. There is definately room in the side for all 3 IMO.
Jimmy_the_Gent
15 Jun 2006, 21:33
Why not play Cox at CHF/FF and play Gardy/Seaby in the ruck? I think Cox in the forwardline would be a potential matchwinner, great mark and set-shot, although maybe playing him on a wing would untilise his mobility more. There is definately room in the side for all 3 IMO.
Have you gone mad? Cox on a wing? The only way that would work is if he drifted forward at every, and i mean every, opportunity.
As agile as he is, he's only really agile for his height. Does anyone seriously think that he could out run or catch, or anything of that nature, an average AFL player in the 170- 189cm range?
The only real solution to this problem is to trade on of Gardiner, Cox or Seaby. Gardy would be my choice, but in reality we'll probably end up playing all 3 at once. One up forward, one on the bench and the other in the ruck. Unfortunatly that would mean the end of a tall forward currently in the team and I can't think of who it should be.
I certainly think that trading a tall at seasons end is the correct thing to do.
hawkeye23
15 Jun 2006, 21:45
Why not play Cox at CHF/FF and play Gardy/Seaby in the ruck? I think Cox in the forwardline would be a potential matchwinner, great mark and set-shot, although maybe playing him on a wing would untilise his mobility more. There is definately room in the side for all 3 IMO.
No way will I stand by and see our current AA ruckman shoved down forward so that a has been ruckman with a previous attitude problem can ponce around possibly recapturing what he used to be.
[/rant]
Reveler
15 Jun 2006, 22:04
No way will I stand by and see our current AA ruckman shoved down forward so that a has been ruckman with a previous attitude problem can ponce around possibly recapturing what he used to be.
[/rant]
I agree completly, Cox is awesome in the ruck, gardiner is a hasbeen.
i reckon if gardiner is successful in his comeback then it makes wc want to trade him more as they will get more on the market as opposed to squat. if he was **** they might consider leaving him in the WAFL and used as a 3rd ruck, if theres an injury.
saints would love three quality ruckmen, but rix is promising, like wat i see
I think your mob would jump at the opportunity to get MG.......
I think your mob would jump at the opportunity to get MG.......
oooh i dunno, definitely seaby, but gardiner...saints have changed from the troubled club of the 90's, we'r trying to clean up our off field image. everitt and hall gone has helped (on the image, could do with everitt and hall, but wouldnt have dal). would be good to get a ruckman but MG is pushing on in age and is injury prone, not the combo we want. we wouldnt want to be paying him much either, salary cap will be not as tight with harvey and thommo out next yr and hamill/gehrig onto the veterans list but wouldnt wanna waste it on gardiner. to think we almost had cox a couple of yrs ago :(
I'd rather trade Gardiner + a draft pick POSSIBLY for Jonathan Brown (as Jon Brown would be my main trading target for the end of this year).
On the other hand I doubt Woosha would give Seaby away.
a) the draft pick ur looking at will not suffice for big man jonathan brown. gardiner and say pick 18? no way would they take that. i sed they shouldnt take judd for brown in another thread and judd is definitely worth more than gardiner and pick 18!
b) brisbane arent looking for a ruck, charman is doing well with beau slowly returning from injury and looking increasingly comfortable. keating is also there.
c) jonathan brown wouldnt want to leave brisbane, he loves it there, triple premiership hero and the promise of a long stint as captain. with judd at eagles, he wont get that.
I'd rather trade Gardiner + a draft pick POSSIBLY for Jonathan Brown (as Jon Brown would be my main trading target for the end of this year).
haahahahaah that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. No chance in hell. If John brown ever left (and it's unlikely), he'd want to go back to victoria. And anyway, gardiner and a draft pick is so far under the odds it's hilarious.
Nice dreaming though.
agreed, cox on the wing only works as a loose man with noone within 20m of him. in the forward line is more potent for him
Have you gone mad? Cox on a wing? The only way that would work is if he drifted forward at every, and i mean every, opportunity.
As agile as he is, he's only really agile for his height. Does anyone seriously think that he could out run or catch, or anything of that nature, an average AFL player in the 170- 189cm range?
The only real solution to this problem is to trade on of Gardiner, Cox or Seaby. Gardy would be my choice, but in reality we'll probably end up playing all 3 at once. One up forward, one on the bench and the other in the ruck. Unfortunatly that would mean the end of a tall forward currently in the team and I can't think of who it should be.
I certainly think that trading a tall at seasons end is the correct thing to do.
Gaspar & McDougall are two expendable (at the moment) talls that come to mind fairly quickly.
TheReason
15 Jun 2006, 22:50
No way will I stand by and see our current AA ruckman shoved down forward so that a has been ruckman with a previous attitude problem can ponce around possibly recapturing what he used to be.
[/rant]
He may or may not be a has been.
We won't know until he has stringed a fair few games together.
Gardiner, at his peak (yes, a few years ago) make's Cox's best work look like an average WAFL player.
This isn't to denigrate Cox because he is a superb player, but Gardiner was in a league of his own, for a brief 15 games of the year.
The fact of the matter is, if Gardiner steps up to the plate, Seaby is then left to rot in the WAFL, devauling his worth.
94_Eagles
15 Jun 2006, 22:59
The fact of the matter is, if Gardiner steps up to the plate, Seaby is then left to rot in the WAFL, devauling his worth.
That's no-ones fault but Seaby's.
TheReason
15 Jun 2006, 23:00
That's no-ones fault but Seaby's.
True dat!:thumbsu:
Jimmy_the_Gent
15 Jun 2006, 23:05
Gaspar & McDougall are two expendable (at the moment) talls that come to mind fairly quickly.
Yeah, I've been thinking about this over the last 30 minutes and I think that unless one or more of players like Lynch, Staker, Gardiner, Seaby and Hansen are willing to become the talls just outside the 22 (like McDougall and Gaspar are right now), it'd be smartest to trade one of them at years end.
If one of Lynch, Staker, Gardiner, Seaby and Hansen are happy to be just outside the 22 then McDougall or Gaspar can go.
I think that's probably me being a bit of a harsh bastard but I get the feeling that we have too many ok talls who aren't being utilized. I guess if it were up to me, without putting too much thought into this, I'd say trade Gardiner and delist Smith.
wce4premiership
16 Jun 2006, 00:24
i would love to see gardiner play....i think he has enough natural talent to be a forward to
larrikin
16 Jun 2006, 01:48
I'd rather trade Gardiner + a draft pick POSSIBLY for Jonathan Brown (as Jon Brown would be my main trading target for the end of this year).
On the other hand I doubt Woosha would give Seaby away.
I almost choked when I read this. You do realise that Brisbane (rightly or wrongly ) would expext at least Judd for Brown don't you?
section8
16 Jun 2006, 04:27
I almost choked when I read this. You do realise that Brisbane (rightly or wrongly ) would expext at least Judd for Brown don't you?
OK, how about Brown for an autographed photo of Judd and Doogs?
hawkeye23
16 Jun 2006, 09:22
The fact of the matter is, if Gardiner steps up to the plate, Seaby is then left to rot in the WAFL, devauling his worth.
Fine. But the minute Coxy is hung out to dry is the minute I'm on my broom over to Perth and asking questions.
macca69
16 Jun 2006, 09:25
No way will I stand by and see our current AA ruckman shoved down forward so that a has been ruckman with a previous attitude problem can ponce around possibly recapturing what he used to be.
[/rant]
The question asked if Gardiner successfully returnes to form. So that statement was made assuming there would be no question marks over Gardy.
Have you gone mad? Cox on a wing? The only way that would work is if he drifted forward at every, and i mean every, opportunity.
As agile as he is, he's only really agile for his height. Does anyone seriously think that he could out run or catch, or anything of that nature, an average AFL player in the 170- 189cm range?
The only real solution to this problem is to trade on of Gardiner, Cox or Seaby. Gardy would be my choice, but in reality we'll probably end up playing all 3 at once. One up forward, one on the bench and the other in the ruck. Unfortunatly that would mean the end of a tall forward currently in the team and I can't think of who it should be.
I certainly think that trading a tall at seasons end is the correct thing to do.
He doesn't have to drift forward all that often, if anything he can drift back and sit in front of oppositions key forwards. Cox is really mobile for his hight and really fit also. In fact he would not be much less agile than Rosa IMO. Just put him on the wing and tell him to run where he likes, up forward down back, or even act as another midfielder. Also Gardy and Seabs are better tap-ruckman than Cox.
Magnum27
16 Jun 2006, 09:35
You can not keep picking a guy because he is young and up and coming( Seaby), the Eagles are in the business of winning games, and if Gardiner gets to 80% of what he used to be( let's be honest with his knee probs he will never be as good as he was ) it will still be better value than Seaby.
quiksilva
16 Jun 2006, 12:37
I'd rather trade Gardiner + a draft pick POSSIBLY for Jonathan Brown (as Jon Brown would be my main trading target for the end of this year).
On the other hand I doubt Woosha would give Seaby away.
Won't happen.
Cheeseball
16 Jun 2006, 14:48
Cox's best (round 1-2/3) is just as good as Gardiner's best
Jimmy_the_Gent
16 Jun 2006, 17:55
He doesn't have to drift forward all that often, if anything he can drift back and sit in front of oppositions key forwards. Cox is really mobile for his hight and really fit also. In fact he would not be much less agile than Rosa IMO. Just put him on the wing and tell him to run where he likes, up forward down back, or even act as another midfielder. Also Gardy and Seabs are better tap-ruckman than Cox.
Yeah, he could drift back or forward, either is good, but he couldn't play on the wing permenantly. Maybe you meant to say that he could play loose and roam forward and back as it suited him? That would make a lot more sense and I guess isn't the worst of ideas.
He's nowhere near as agile as Rosa IMO though.
macca69
16 Jun 2006, 19:00
Yeah, he could drift back or forward, either is good, but he couldn't play on the wing permenantly. Maybe you meant to say that he could play loose and roam forward and back as it suited him? That would make a lot more sense and I guess isn't the worst of ideas.
He's nowhere near as agile as Rosa IMO though.
Yeh ok then. I have seen players like Tredrea and McKernan play on a wing successfully before though, so I don't see why Cox couldn't make it work.
Eagle_boy
17 Jun 2006, 16:59
Gardiner needs to come into the side, play him at CHF or close to goal, this will take a very good defender considering his size....just hope he is injury free otherwise it will spell the end him at WC.
The problem with Seaby is that he doesn't have much influence around the ground, up forward and especially in the ruck whereas Gardy will definitely give us more...wouldn't be suprised if Woosha lessens the workload of Coxy to get him super right for the finals.
Whether Gardy is trade bait at the end of seasons end depends if he again is injury prone, I know Sheedy was very interested in him a few years back and keeping in mind Essendon will have good draft pics this year they might be interested especially since the draft apparently is being compared to 2001;)
Lynch drops a mark
17 Jun 2006, 17:05
Gardiner needs to come into the side, play him at CHF or close to goal, this will take a very good defender considering his size....just hope he is injury free otherwise it will spell the end him at WC.
because gardy went so well in the forward line in the finals last year :rolleyes:
Gardiner needs to come into the side, play him at CHF or close to goal, this will take a very good defender considering his size....just hope he is injury free otherwise it will spell the end him at WC.
The problem with Seaby is that he doesn't have much influence around the ground, up forward and especially in the ruck whereas Gardy will definitely give us more...wouldn't be suprised if Woosha lessens the workload of Coxy to get him super right for the finals.
Whether Gardy is trade bait at the end of seasons end depends if he again is injury prone, I know Sheedy was very interested in him a few years back and keeping in mind Essendon will have good draft pics this year they might be interested especially since the draft apparently is being compared to 2001;)
a few years back gardiner was a champ and playing well, now hes a major risk to take, especially to a bottom club about to undergo serious reform by the way of YOUNG talent
i might be wrong but ur last statement seemed to me to say that essendon would trade one of its picks for gardiner...but then u say the draft is as good as 2001, which it could well be. if that was the case why waste a super youngster on gardiner?!
Stenglein's a Champ!
17 Jun 2006, 19:41
Yeah, I've been thinking about this over the last 30 minutes and I think that unless one or more of players like Lynch, Staker, Gardiner, Seaby and Hansen are willing to become the talls just outside the 22 (like McDougall and Gaspar are right now), it'd be smartest to trade one of them at years end.
If one of Lynch, Staker, Gardiner, Seaby and Hansen are happy to be just outside the 22 then McDougall or Gaspar can go.
I think that's probably me being a bit of a harsh bastard but I get the feeling that we have too many ok talls who aren't being utilized. I guess if it were up to me, without putting too much thought into this, I'd say trade Gardiner and delist Smith.
There is no way i would delist Smith. He has too much to offer. IMO if he hadn't suffered those 2 season ending injuries, he would be a superstar of the competition. Before you say oh he's too injury prone, before these 2 injuries he was injury free, he's just very unlucky.
TheReason
18 Jun 2006, 00:25
Cox's best (round 1-2/3) is just as good as Gardiner's best
I've had a few days to really go away and think about that comment.
Those 1st 3 games by Cox this year, as far as around the ground goes, was equal to Gardiner in his prime.
However, Gardiner's Tap Work is vastly superior to that of Cox. Heck, even Seaby is considered a better tap ruckman than Cox.
Here's the key point though. Cox was able to match Gardiner's around the ground play for only 3 games. He has yet to reach Gardiner's lofty heights in the ruck.
Edit: Gardiner is a more physical player and goes harder for the ball.
Don't get me wrong, I am not rubbishing Cox one little bit.
Jimmy_the_Gent
18 Jun 2006, 14:27
There is no way i would delist Smith. He has too much to offer. IMO if he hadn't suffered those 2 season ending injuries, he would be a superstar of the competition. Before you say oh he's too injury prone, before these 2 injuries he was injury free, he's just very unlucky.
Well he has suffered 2 knee injuries and I believe he had some kind of knee injury a long time before that (Another knee reco?). But yes, his body stood up for a long time inbetween.
Still, have you got any idea what happens to a player after a knee reconstrcution? They're rarely the same, and Smith wasn't even proven before he did his knee the first time.
southjoy
18 Jun 2006, 15:16
The EAGLES DON"T HAVE TRADE BAIT which is why we are able to hold onto a lot of players instead of seeing them return home. The Eagles are more than happy to accomodate a playing leaving if that is what they wish. BUT we don't trade players who don't want to be traded.
I for one love this about the Eagles. I love loyalty and you can only ever get that with a "two way street".
As for the comment that Cox's best isn't as good as Gardy's. Geez time does enrich memories. Gardy was very good, great tap work, mobile for a ruckman at that period of time and generally the best going at the time. Coxy however is a much more mobile ruckman who has changed the way we look at ruckman to another level. His foot skills are far superior to Gardy's - both left and right, extremely accurate and reliable in front of goals. Coxy is a great pack and clutch mark.
All up Gardy was/is a very good ruckman but to think that his best is better than Cox is to say that Diesel williams is a better player than Judd.
Times change , the game changes and Coxy's attributes are more important in today's game.