View Full Version : who would u trade?
blumfieldisback
24 Jun 2006, 12:45
im resigned to finishing last and i think it will re-generate exitement around the club. with this in mind i think we will get picks 1,17,18 and 33 plus the pre-season draft pick. we wll hear about gibbs as the standout midfielder but the rest of the blokes are kpp, i think we need both and am sure that we will get good players in pick 17 and 18 too but i think we need to trade someone that will get us a top 10 draft pick, maybe a johnson or soloman and pick for say pick 9 and draft pick 56. i know they are long servants of the club but there discipline or skill errors cost us deeply, they have started to show there form is turning but maybe its better for one of them to go elsewhere.
we have to move with the times, hawthorn put the bit between the teeth and traded thompson.
imagine having picks 1,9,17,18 and 56 (whatever it is) and say the number 1 pre season pick, that will be 5 good members coming in.
I'm not sure you'd get a top 10 pick for a Solly/JJ and a 3rd rounder, especially in this draft.
Good theory though, it would set us up, if another team actually wanted to do it we'd have to serioulsy consider it
After this season, this is the list of players i would not trade....
Lloyd
Fletcher
The group of Monfires, Stanton, Watson, Ryder, Lovett, Bradley, Lovett Murray should all be kept for the future.
The rest should all be available for good young talent.
Lucas should probably be on the list as well. But he's probaby someone you could trade to get something decent. Ie. Geelong would possibly give up a first round draft pick and young player for him.
Brad Pearce
24 Jun 2006, 14:37
Would you trade kepler bradley? Blues need a ruck, you might need a forward... perhaps fisher?
Would you trade kepler bradley? Blues need a ruck, you might need a forward... perhaps fisher?
No thanks, we'll have a pretty good forward line next year and most of us like Kepler's ability and potential. Plus you wouldn't want him to be your ruckman
lol
fisher>>>>>>>>>bradley
Bradleys an interesting one. Thr first thing e need to do is work out where he should play. Key back is where we are trying to develop him. Once he bulks up a bit more he will be a good player. Reads the play pretty well at the moment and can get the ball which is a good thing.
Theres no point trading him. Just need to keep developing him.
Bradleys an interesting one. Thr first thing e need to do is work out where he should play. Key back is where we are trying to develop him. Once he bulks up a bit more he will be a good player. Reads the play pretty well at the moment and can get the ball which is a good thing.
Theres no point trading him. Just need to keep developing him.
Exactly, no point trading him. Dunno about key back, I like him on the HB flank, he doesn't have to take gun CHB's (not yet anyway) and he can move forward into the wings where he was a gun in WA
Exactly, no point trading him. Dunno about key back, I like him on the HB flank, he doesn't have to take gun CHB's (not yet anyway) and he can move forward into the wings where he was a gun in WA
Ideally Half Back Flank would suit him but the problem is someone will have to fill the key position spots once Fletcer goes. We can hope that Lee can do it but we don't have a great deal of up and coming strong bodies.
Ideally Half Back Flank would suit him but the problem is someone will have to fill the key position spots once Fletcer goes. We can hope that Lee can do it but we don't have a great deal of up and coming strong bodies.
Yeah, not ure how much bulking up Kepler has in him, hopefully a significant amount. We really need to start developing Lee real soon and even look for more key defenders via the draft. If it was up to me I'd like to leave Kepler on the flanks all the time, but if we need him to fill a KP role then so be it.
mcphee_is_a_gun
24 Jun 2006, 18:44
I have no doubts at all about Lee making it at AFL level, i know thats a big call but what i've seen from him has been very very good.
djharps
24 Jun 2006, 19:09
if mcphee finds some career form, he could take over fletchers spot?
mcphee_is_a_gun
24 Jun 2006, 19:49
if mcphee finds some career form, he could take over fletchers spot?
Mcphee will never be a Fullback....
if mcphee finds some career form, he could take over fletchers spot?
It'd be a hard ask of him to play in career form for the rest of his career
Bradley isnt going to get much bigger, look at the difference between him now n last season...so we want a slow hulk or a nimble half back, tall option (Fletcher x Lucas)
He needs to work on his aggression in a contest and they do need to finalise where they want him to play, although he came with the wraps of being able to play tall option, wing and ruck....yet to see this versatility just yet.
He isnt a goal kicker though...not yet anyways.
Hope the club is looking at Franklin by the way...this kid is a star on the rise once he pulls his head in off field
blumfieldisback
24 Jun 2006, 20:04
Bradley isnt going to get much bigger, look at the difference between him now n last season...so we want a slow hulk or a nimble half back, tall option (Fletcher x Lucas)
He needs to work on his aggression in a contest and they do need to finalise where they want him to play, although he came with the wraps of being able to play tall option, wing and ruck....yet to see this versatility just yet.
He isnt a goal kicker though...not yet anyways.
Hope the club is looking at Franklin by the way...this kid is a star on the rise once he pulls his head in off field
no chance in us getting franklin, if that kids got any sense he'll stay at hawthorn otherwise he would only be coming to us for money, and then if west coast or fremantle were to bottom out he would leave us and go home for more money. Too much presssure for the youngster.
i would think bradley is un-tradeable it took fletcher a good 6 years after 93 to find his feet and i think bradley is much in the same mould.
and why would jason or mark johnson or dean soloman plus a 3rd rounder not be deemd of a top 10 draft pick, north traded two first rounders for jon hay didnt they and the saints traded there first rounder for fergus watts???
Rhombus
24 Jun 2006, 20:10
Took Fletcher 6 years?
I think not. He was a genuine star when he was a teenager.
Kepler has nothing on Fletcher at this stage of his career.
Anyone suggesting the Johnsons should be up for trade hasn't a clue. Despite everything, they give their all n dont take ****e from anyone, regardless of their superstar status...with Solly, well...he can get back there, but it would have to be in a different role..goal hungry players he's pitted against each week will make him look second rate right now. He NEEDS to be placed in our forward 50 if he has any chance of making something of himself in the next 5 years
Took Fletcher 6 years?
I think not. He was a genuine star when he was a teenager.
Kepler has nothing on Fletcher at this stage of his career.
Very much agree with you, Fletcher was unique that he had a mature head on his shoulders from day one...only need to remember he waived the game against Fitzroy to play for his school side if Im not mistaken.
Yeah, not ure how much bulking up Kepler has in him, hopefully a significant amount. We really need to start developing Lee real soon and even look for more key defenders via the draft. If it was up to me I'd like to leave Kepler on the flanks all the time, but if we need him to fill a KP role then so be it.
Good call on all points there :thumbsu: Doubt Kep can get any bigger, maybe more defined and he's a flanker, wing type linkman.
I've been an Essendon supporter for 37 years and have seen many great players.
Unfortunately the list we have at the moment is quite poor imo.
Here is my assessment of each player and how we should cut deep to take advantage of the good dfaft this year.
Bolton - Average but handy for depth and wouldnt get ,much for him if anything
Bradley - Have to keep and will probably be a handy player, possibly very good
Camporeale - Has been ordinary to date but keep for guidance of youth
Cartledge - Ruckman take awhile but i have doubts on him. Must show something next year
Cole - Has had no chance because of injuries, should be handy but could be a front runner
Dempsey - I like him a lot and will be a very good player
Dyson - Has talent but can go missing, keep i think he will be quite handy
Fletcher - No assessment needed
Heffernan - Has been a very good pickup and keep until he retires or form slips
Henneman - is a dud and should have been delisted 3 years ago.
Hill - Good player and will be better as time goes on
Hird - No assessment needed
Johns - I have doubts but must persist and see what he can do, might make a centre half back
J.Johnson - Will be 29 next year and although i know sheedy won't, should be traded, would get a reasonable player/draft pick.Is gutsy and in and under not not suited to todays football.
M.Johnson - Very adaptable and still has 3 years of footy left, keep
Laycock - will be a handy ruckman/forward, keep
Lee- hasnt had much of a chance , keep
Lloyd - No assessment needed
Lonergan - looks ok but slow, i have doubts but keep to see what he can do
Lovett - TRADE, He is lazy, too casual and big headed.Has a lot of talent and pace to burn , which we need, but i feel we would get a good player/pick for him
Lovett/Murray - Has had a good year, in the long run i feel just an average player but handy for depth and versatile , Trade if can get a good player or pick if not keep
Lucas - No assessment needed
Lucy - Havent seen enough of him, keep
Mcphee - Way down on confidence but is a good player. keep
Mcveigh - Had a good year and has improved every year since hes been at the club , keep
Monfries - Is going to be a fantastic player for the club for many years to come
Nash - handy but wont make it, trade/delist
Neagle - Is a long term prospect, keep
Peverille - The game has passed him by , wouldnt be able to trade, delist
Rama- This is the hardest call to make but it is highly unlikely he will ever play footy again and if he did we could redraft him, we need his spot, delist
Reynolds - No good delist
Rioli - Has let himslef and his club down by presenting himself as a poor example of a sportsman.He has tremendous talent but has wasted it by being too fat and is a poor example to the rest of the team Trade/delist, i doubt any one would trade for him though
Ryder. will be a very good player for many many years to come
Slattery - Will be a handy stopper/ tagger type and will make it, keep
Soloman - Has knee problems and another the game has passed by,trade
Stanton - one of our better picks and will be a good footballer, keep
Watson - has worked hard and will be handy, keep
Welsh, i have never thought much of him and would be able to trade, do it!!
Winderlich - tries hard and has worked really hard but just is not good enough,Trade/delist
Dr Moose
24 Jun 2006, 23:35
J.Johnson - Will be 29 next year and although i know sheedy won't, should be traded, would get a reasonable player/draft pick.Is gutsy and in and under not not suited to todays football.
Why? Agree with most of your other points, but to me Jason is the one player in the midfield who is competing against his opposition. He provides a valuable running target, keeps the game flowing and disposes very well. Presents to tough contests and doesn't wait for the game to come to him. Keep, and hopefully plenty more like him. Certainly don't think you could ever replace him with our current options
MrAaron
24 Jun 2006, 23:41
im resigned to finishing last and i think it will re-generate exitement around the club. with this in mind i think we will get picks 1,17,18 and 33 plus the pre-season draft pick. we wll hear about gibbs as the standout midfielder but the rest of the blokes are kpp, i think we need both and am sure that we will get good players in pick 17 and 18 too but i think we need to trade someone that will get us a top 10 draft pick, maybe a johnson or soloman and pick for say pick 9 and draft pick 56. i know they are long servants of the club but there discipline or skill errors cost us deeply, they have started to show there form is turning but maybe its better for one of them to go elsewhere.
we have to move with the times, hawthorn put the bit between the teeth and traded thompson.
imagine having picks 1,9,17,18 and 56 (whatever it is) and say the number 1 pre season pick, that will be 5 good members coming in.
I'm glad your not the essendon coach.
I'd find away to readjust all the essendon contracts and put them all on performance based deals for the next 2 seasons. Trade Bolton & Kepler Bradley for Eagles Wayne Gardiner. I am sure that's worth it right ? :thumbsu:
Why? Agree with most of your other points, but to me Jason is the one player in the midfield who is competing against his opposition. He provides a valuable running target, keeps the game flowing and disposes very well. Presents to tough contests and doesn't wait for the game to come to him. Keep, and hopefully plenty more like him. Certainly don't think you could ever replace him with our current options
I understand where you are coming from and there is no doubt we could not replace him with our current options.But we won't be in with a chance of a premiership for 2-3 years imo and then he will be 32.
I disagree about his disposal as i believe it is poor and has always been only average.The way the agme is going its a free running style now and with his lack of pace and poor disposal i would trade him but as i said, they are hard decisions.
I'm glad your not the essendon coach.
I'd find away to readjust all the essendon contracts and put them all on performance based deals for the next 2 seasons. Trade Bolton & Kepler Bradley for Eagles Wayne Gardiner. I am sure that's worth it right ? :thumbsu:
I'm sure you are talking about Michael Gardiner, right?
If so i wouldnt do that trade but he certainly would be a player worth considering although he has had many injuries in his time and i doubt he will be playing into his 30's
Dr Moose
25 Jun 2006, 00:05
I think we're stuck with Bolton, but hopefully he can play more games alongside Fletcher and learn how to spoil. Can Lee? Welsh should be a defender for some time yet, don't hammer his development by shoving him all over the ground. I'd always hoped Peverill would be a hardman like Dean Wallis, but have to admit I'm giving up hope.
wazzabp
25 Jun 2006, 11:01
Why do people continue to want to give Bradley away? Hes halfway through his 3rd season and only 20 when the year started. Its common knowledge to everyone with a clue about footy that big blokes can take up to around 23/24 to start playing solid consistent footy.
Hes been asked to play key position down back in a side thats been beaten continuously this year, so its obvious hes going to struggle.
Give him time FFS!:rolleyes:
Why do people continue to want to give Bradley away? Hes halfway through his 3rd season and only 20 when the year started. Its common knowledge to everyone with a clue about footy that big blokes can take up to around 23/24 to start playing solid consistent footy.
Hes been asked to play key position down back in a side thats been beaten continuously this year, so its obvious hes going to struggle.
Give him time FFS!:rolleyes:
Agreed, its far too early to trade him, unless of course it was an extremely attractive trade.Very good points about playing key position ina team getting smashed.If we had some one else to play CHB i think he would make quite a good winger until he was developed enough to learn CHB.
The one BIG concern i do have with him is he goes to ground far too easily and that is usually a trait that is not very easy to turn around.
Bolton - Average but handy for depth and wouldnt get ,much for him if anything
Henneman - is a dud and should have been delisted 3 years ago.
Johns - I have doubts but must persist and see what he can do, might make a centre half back
J.Johnson - Will be 29 next year and although i know sheedy won't, should be traded, would get a reasonable player/draft pick.Is gutsy and in and under not not suited to todays football.
Lovett - TRADE, He is lazy, too casual and big headed.Has a lot of talent and pace to burn , which we need, but i feel we would get a good player/pick for him
Lovett-Murray - Has had a good year, in the long run i feel just an average player but handy for depth and versatile , Trade if can get a good player or pick if not keep
Nash - handy but wont make it, trade/delist
Rama- This is the hardest call to make but it is highly unlikely he will ever play footy again and if he did we could redraft him, we need his spot, delist
Welsh, i have never thought much of him and would be able to trade, do it!!
Henneman- Keep, versatile, and is just one of those players you need on your list who can just come into the side to fill holes when injury or susspension occurs.
Johns- Looks the goods to me, takes a good mark, leads hard, and would NEVER EVER put him in the backline.
Lovette- Trade, much like cupido, pleanty of talent, but just doesnt look very dedicated atm.
NLM- Great player, one of the better players in our side this year, keep keep keep
Nash- Showed signs when he has played this year, and actually fitted in pretty well
Rama- Keep, Good football clubs look after their own, i wouldnt delist him unless it was his idea to do so.
Welsh- Hard, Physical, flies the flag, one of those players every backline needs.
Henneman- Keep, versatile, and is just one of those players you need on your list who can just come into the side to fill holes when injury or susspension occurs.
Johns- Looks the goods to me, takes a good mark, leads hard, and would NEVER EVER put him in the backline.
Lovette- Trade, much like cupido, pleanty of talent, but just doesnt look very dedicated atm.
NLM- Great player, one of the better players in our side this year, keep keep keep
Nash- Showed signs when he has played this year, and actually fitted in pretty well
Rama- Keep, Good football clubs look after their own, i wouldnt delist him unless it was his idea to do so.
Welsh- Hard, Physical, flies the flag, one of those players every backline needs.
Henneman - IMO is not versatile as he can't play ANY position well.Sure he can play ruck, forward or back but he does none of them well.
Is a very poor kick and misses most goals attempts.Is too slow to go with leading forwards and turn the ball over with poor disposal while in the beackline and just too small for the ruck although tries hard.
I doubt you would find many to agree with your call on keeping him
Johns - Looks ok but with Bradley not ready for CHB, Lloyds back next year and Lucas best CHF we have and one of the best in League why not try him at CHB and if sucessful would stop Bradley having to be slaghtered there each week and a good learning experience for Johns
NLM - I suppose your idea of "GREAT" and mine are different but i did say keep unless we could get something very good for him
Nash - I think only time will tell on him who is correct, don't have a very strong view one way or the other
Rama - If it looked like he would be able to come back we could redraft him, but he has such a long way to go and that one pick we miss COULD potentially be a good player for 10+ years
Welsh - Is physical but also gives away a lot of free kicks, has average disposal and i don't think he is very good at all
Longy413
25 Jun 2006, 18:49
Welsh - Is physical but also gives away a lot of free kicks
There are 18 players that have given away as many, or more free kicks per game at Essendon this season than Welsh has.
carn_the_dons
25 Jun 2006, 20:38
I think Sheedy should be putting Fletcher on other teams key forward, Bradley while he will be a good defender isn't at that level yet. If he plays more HBF we will see more of his running/linking play. Maybe put him on key forwards some weeks? It would be good for his development, but I think if he also plays on the flank at times he will be a better defender in later years. any thoughts?
Rioli - Has let himslef and his club down by presenting himself as a poor example of a sportsman.He has tremendous talent but has wasted it by being too fat and is a poor example to the rest of the team Trade/delist, i doubt any one would trade for him though
He is retiring at the end of the year. I guess you follow the club more intently when we're winning.
And for those who say trade Lovett, you have sh*t for brains. He’s our quickest player and one of the few good small forwards on our list. Why oh why are people so dumb?
He is retiring at the end of the year. I guess you follow the club more intently when we're winning.
And for those who say trade Lovett, you have sh*t for brains. He’s our quickest player and one of the few good small forwards on our list. Why oh why are people so dumb?
LOL, Jex, it may be advisable for you to check your facts before you go mouthing off but generally big mouths do that.
Rioli has said that he wants to get to 100 games and that he is considering retiring at the end of the year.
He may not get enough games in to get to 100 and hence maynot retire.
Further more Sheedy has been a big supporter of his and may talk him out of retiring so maybe before you declare him retired open your mind to possibilities.
As for Lovett and sh*t for brains, that is a matter of opinion and i was just giving mine. No one denies his pace it was his attitude i questioned and i said i feel we would get a good player or pick for him.
I have followed the club for 37 years mate and do so whether they are winning or losing.
Maybe you should think before you open your big mouth in future or if that can't be achieved at least be more respectful of peoples opinions
I think Sheedy should be putting Fletcher on other teams key forward, Bradley while he will be a good defender isn't at that level yet. If he plays more HBF we will see more of his running/linking play. Maybe put him on key forwards some weeks? It would be good for his development, but I think if he also plays on the flank at times he will be a better defender in later years. any thoughts?
CTD, i think that makes a lot of sense.
This was another reason i thought we could try Johns at CHB, espeicailly in next years pre season.I feel it would be good for both players developement and the idea of rotating them through CHB would give them the break they need from that position.
I fear for the EFC the day Courtney Johns is our regular CHB, he's not even very good at his real position. We would be much better off trying to develop Kepler there.
Not 100% sure on the new draft rules, but I doubt you would get picks 17 and 18 this year like the original post said. Don't you have to win less than eight games over a two year period to qualify for the extra pick at the end of the first round? I think you guys won too many games last year to have you qualify for this year's priority pick.
Karlostj
26 Jun 2006, 14:51
Not 100% sure on the new draft rules, but I doubt you would get picks 17 and 18 this year like the original post said. Don't you have to win less than eight games over a two year period to qualify for the extra pick at the end of the first round? I think you guys won too many games last year to have you qualify for this year's priority pick.
You have to win 4 games or less in a single year to get a priority pick after the first round.
If you win 4 games or less, two years in a row then you get a priority pick before the first round....
I really can't see Essendon trading for a top 10 pick, or even a first round pick this year. The only players that would be worth a top pick like this are players that aren't going to be traded (eg Lloyd, Hille) McPhee would be the only player that I could see possibly being traded for a high pick. clubs will be very keen to hang on to their picks this year.
carn_the_dons
26 Jun 2006, 15:06
CTD, i think that makes a lot of sense.
This was another reason i thought we could try Johns at CHB, espeicailly in next years pre season.I feel it would be good for both players developement and the idea of rotating them through CHB would give them the break they need from that position.
I'm not to sure about Johns as a CHB, against Melbourne Sheedy put him against Neitz, and although Neitz is a great forward, I think Johns won't be suited to those occasions. There was talk in the pre-season that he would play there, and played a few games there earlier but I don't think he'll make it as a CHB, more of a CHF IMO.
Scott Lucas is the player I would trade to obtain another first round pick. He has been a great servant of the club and I really like him as a player BUT it is a really strong draft, we are probably 3 years from being up there again and if we draft a blue chipper now he will be 21 when our window reopens. The clubs which might consider Lucas IMO are Bulldogs, Geelong (though Hawkins may stop that) West Coast and Brisbane.
mcphee_is_a_gun
26 Jun 2006, 18:38
Scott Lucas is the player I would trade to obtain another first round pick. He has been a great servant of the club and I really like him as a player BUT it is a really strong draft, we are probably 3 years from being up there again and if we draft a blue chipper now he will be 21 when our window reopens. The clubs which might consider Lucas IMO are Bulldogs, Geelong (though Hawkins may stop that) West Coast and Brisbane.
I'd probably trade him for a top 10 pick but nothing less.
dave_27
26 Jun 2006, 19:47
I would NOT trade Lucas.
You dont just throw away a player of that quality who has been a bloody star for us for nearly a decade to punt on a unknown in the draft.
He deserves to play out his career with the club who drafted him.
I would NOT trade Lucas.
You dont just throw away a player of that quality who has been a bloody star for us for nearly a decade to punt on a unknown in the draft.
He deserves to play out his career with the club who drafted him.
Exactly, Scotty tries his guts out every single week and I applaud him for that.
Exactly, Scotty tries his guts out every single week and I applaud him for that.
Me too BUT football is a business and if we got offered a pick which would get us a player of the capabilities of a Selwood, Thorp or M Clark then I would do it. Hardwick was a hard trade for the club and for him personally but he got a 3 year contract, played in a premiership side and parlayed it into a coaching job. You dont trade quality unless you receive quality and SUCCESSION planning is VITAL the way AFL operates today.
carn_the_dons
26 Jun 2006, 20:12
Me too BUT football is a business and if we got offered a pick which would get us a player of the capabilities of a Selwood, Thorp or M Clark then I would do it. Hardwick was a hard trade for the club and for him personally but he got a 3 year contract, played in a premiership side and parlayed it into a coaching job. You dont trade quality unless you receive quality and SUCCESSION planning is VITAL the way AFL operates today.
Seeing what happened to Lloyd this year I think we would be crazy to trade Lucas. He is the one forward who IMO can kick a bag of goals. If we trade him and Lloyd gets another injury we will have to solely depend on Johns, Reynolds and Hille to provide our goals, and none of these guys can win a game off their own boot, whereas Scotty and Lloydy can
I've been an Essendon supporter for 37 years and have seen many great players.
Unfortunately the list we have at the moment is quite poor imo.
Here is my assessment of each player and how we should cut deep to take advantage of the good dfaft this year.
Bolton - Average but handy for depth and wouldnt get ,much for him if anything
agree
Bradley - Have to keep and will probably be a handy player, possibly very good
agree
Camporeale - Has been ordinary to date but keep for guidance of youth
signed up for next year anyway for better or worse depending on your view
Cartledge - Ruckman take awhile but i have doubts on him. Must show something next year
wont be around next year , is behind Hille, Laycock and Ryder. You can throw Bradley in front of him as well.
Cole - Has had no chance because of injuries, should be handy but could be a front runner
not toally sold on him but hasnt had a chance to sow anything yet
Dempsey - I like him a lot and will be a very good player
agree just needs time
Dyson - Has talent but can go missing, keep i think he will be quite handy
needs to keep up efforts like his game against Sandy on Saturday. Is way too inconsitant so far.
Fletcher - No assessment needed
Heffernan - Has been a very good pickup and keep until he retires or form slips
yep
Henneman - is a dud and should have been delisted 3 years ago.
yep
Hille - Good player and will be better as time goes on
yes but he does need to show more week in and week out.
Hird - No assessment needed
Johns - I have doubts but must persist and see what he can do, might make a centre half back
The jury is still out but he is playing out of position IMO. I think he is a natural CHF. Has looked better everytime he has played at CHF.
J.Johnson - Will be 29 next year and although i know sheedy won't, should be traded, would get a reasonable player/draft pick.Is gutsy and in and under not not suited to todays football.
The whisper around is his foot injury is giving him a lot of trouble still which is why his form has been very patchy. Could he also retire if he cant get it right?
M.Johnson - Very adaptable and still has 3 years of footy left, keep
yep agree, looks better when he only has to have short stints in the midfield.
Laycock - will be a handy ruckman/forward, keep
Will be more than handy if we can get him fit.
Lee- hasnt had much of a chance , keep
starting to really show heaps in the VFL
Lloyd - No assessment needed
Lonergan - looks ok but slow, i have doubts but keep to see what he can do
not the quickest but he isnt slow, is going ok in the VFL now.
Lovett - TRADE, He is lazy, too casual and big headed.Has a lot of talent and pace to burn , which we need, but i feel we would get a good player/pick for him
tend to agree, something is wrong and it looks like the showboat factor. Is it just me or does he seem to be lacking a little pace wise this year compared to last year. I am on the fence i guess , could be traded but could stay.
Lovett/Murray - Has had a good year, in the long run i feel just an average player but handy for depth and versatile , Trade if can get a good player or pick if not keep
agree but he has gone up a lot from my previous opinions of him.
Lucas - No assessment needed
Lucy - Havent seen enough of him, keep
starting to find a little form in the VFL but is still a longer term prospect
Mcphee - Way down on confidence but is a good player. keep
If the rumour he wants to leave is true then get what we can for him , otherwise keep.
Mcveigh - Had a good year and has improved every year since hes been at the club , keep
agree will leave a bigger whole than most people think if he where to leave
Monfries - Is going to be a fantastic player for the club for many years to come
yep
Nash - handy but wont make it, trade/delist
agree
Neagle - Is a long term prospect, keep
long term and possibly as a back
Peverille - The game has passed him by , wouldnt be able to trade, delist
yep , hate to say it but its time to go Pev
Rama- This is the hardest call to make but it is highly unlikely he will ever play footy again and if he did we could redraft him, we need his spot, delist
if he is ok he stays.
Reynolds - No good delist
never been a fan
Rioli - Has let himslef and his club down by presenting himself as a poor example of a sportsman.He has tremendous talent but has wasted it by being too fat and is a poor example to the rest of the team Trade/delist, i doubt any one would trade for him though
wont play, his knee is gone. Has to have surgery every three months or so to repair it. Retired.
Ryder. will be a very good player for many many years to come
yep
Slattery - Will be a handy stopper/ tagger type and will make it, keep
yep
Soloman - Has knee problems and another the game has passed by,trade
dont agree , it he can get over his knee problem he still has plenty to offer as a backman.
Stanton - one of our better picks and will be a good footballer, keep
yep
Watson - has worked hard and will be handy, keep
yep
Welsh, i have never thought much of him and would be able to trade, do it!!
could be trade value simply because i dont think he is in our best 15
Winderlich - tries hard and has worked really hard but just is not good enough,Trade/delist
will be better kids coming out of this draft to try .
and to add the rookies in.
Jolley , would be a chance to get Winderlichs spot.
Hocking has shown enough to keep on as a rookie.
Firman , ditto hocking.
Okeefe, was surpised we rookied him. Hasnt had much of a chance yet due to injury.Dont think he will make it.
McKinnon, hasnt played because of injury so no chance to asses
Longy413
26 Jun 2006, 20:18
West Coast and the Bulldogs aren't going to have the pick we require for Lucas. We'd want top 10, they won't have it.
Geelong will slot Hawkins straight in and bank on the further development of Ablett. Not sure why Brisbane would want Lucas, they have a pretty handy CHF and will look to further develop Clarke.
Dr Moose
26 Jun 2006, 22:38
I would NOT trade Lucas.
You dont just throw away a player of that quality who has been a bloody star for us for nearly a decade to punt on a unknown in the draft.
He deserves to play out his career with the club who drafted him.
Absolutely. If we can somehow be lucky enough to keep his loyalty for the remainder of his career we'd be idiots to let him go. With Fletcher, Hird and Lloyd, he's the type of player who leads by example and will inspire the young kids. IMO pay him whatever he wants, give him a Rolls Royce for all I care, just don't trade him
Gunnar Longshanks
27 Jun 2006, 01:17
J.Johnson - Will be 29 next year and although i know sheedy won't, should be traded, would get a reasonable player/draft pick.Is gutsy and in and under not not suited to todays football.
What do you think you'd get for JJ?
What do you think you'd get for JJ?
1. We shouldn't trade him. Not only has he been a fantastic servant to the club he showed last match he can still find the footy and use it alright.
2. We wouldn't get too much for him anyway this year, not worth it.
blumfieldisback
27 Jun 2006, 13:17
I'm glad your not the essendon coach.
I'd find away to readjust all the essendon contracts and put them all on performance based deals for the next 2 seasons. Trade Bolton & Kepler Bradley for Eagles Wayne Gardiner. I am sure that's worth it right ? :thumbsu:
and your glad im not the essendon coach, you want to trade bradley and bolton for gardiner whos life amibtion is to be a gangster after footy, good choice!!!! not
and i think it was cave or crave i dont know, whoever it was i stated it took fletcher 6 years after 93, so yes in 93 he did a great job but for the next 5 or so years he really was injury plagued and not physically strong enough to cope with the power forwards. In 98 sean wellman was our no.1 backman not fletch.
and people have to understand that footy isn't yesteryears game where u dont trade premiership players, this is the new age u live in you have to trade something to get something, we need an influx of young talent that can grow and mature together as a team, like the eagles have done and like hawthorn are doing now. The johnsons are great servants but there coming towards then end of there careers im not talking about how old they are, im talking about the pace of the game, there not fast and the game is going past them. This is why winderlich started to play some ok footy this year, by no strectch of the imaginations is he as good as the johnsons or solly for that matter but the pace of the game has brought his game into our team.
people have some vision, other teams dont trade high picks unless they think there getting something. jason has something to offer not many of our other players do.
Bradleys game will come into the fore within the next 2 years, he will be a running CHB who can run through as the link man between full back and full forward his mobility will be an asset to run oppositions CHF ragged. I would compare him to a koutafides type player, except his marking isnt as good.
Seeing what happened to Lloyd this year I think we would be crazy to trade Lucas. He is the one forward who IMO can kick a bag of goals. If we trade him and Lloyd gets another injury we will have to solely depend on Johns, Reynolds and Hille to provide our goals, and none of these guys can win a game off their own boot, whereas Scotty and Lloydy can
Youre right and I would never bag Scotty Lucas BUT we have won one game with Lucas in the side all year. If we didnt have him we couldnt go much worse. And if you start shaping your list fearful of getting freak injuries then you would be an absolute pessimist.
West Coast and the Bulldogs aren't going to have the pick we require for Lucas. We'd want top 10, they won't have it.
Geelong will slot Hawkins straight in and bank on the further development of Ablett. Not sure why Brisbane would want Lucas, they have a pretty handy CHF and will look to further develop Clarke.
Maybe youd get Pick 12 off the bulldogs which is the equivalent to top ten IMO in most drafts. The eagles would most likely be pick 15 or 16. Saying that if they dont win it this year how badly would they push for a key forward do you think?
mcphee_is_a_gun
27 Jun 2006, 17:50
I still think Geelong would be our best option at getting a top 10 pick for Lucas if he werte to go.
Longy413
27 Jun 2006, 17:51
Would they give up a pick though?
Or would they try to off-load one of their surplus midfielders?
I think it's going to be very hard to trade into the first round this year, but perhaps we could find some value by attempting to trade into the third round.
We could add some genuine depth to our list by trading into the third round, providing we draft well of course.
Who we give up, I'm not sure.
mcphee_is_a_gun
27 Jun 2006, 17:53
Would they give up a pick though?
Or would they try to off-load one of their surplus midfielders?
I think it's going to be very hard to trade into the first round this year, but perhaps we could find some value by attempting to trade into the third round.
We could add some genuine depth to our list by trading into the third round, providing we draft well of course.
Who we give up, I'm not sure.
would not surprise me if someone like Welsh left.
would not surprise me if someone like Welsh left.
I wouldnt be surprised if the Swans looked to replace Williams with a player such as McVeigh.
I still think Geelong would be our best option at getting a top 10 pick for Lucas if he werte to go.
You could be right. They already have a first rounder in Hawkins and they may be prepared to roll the dice. They would be two BIG additions to a forward line that lacks genuine KP players. CYA Kent Kingsley. kangaroos followed a similar strategy when they got smith f/s and traded for thompson.
Longy413
27 Jun 2006, 18:02
I'd be very, very suprised, shocked infact, if either Welsh or McVeigh put their hand up to be traded. Welsh more so.
mcphee_is_a_gun
27 Jun 2006, 18:03
I'd be very, very suprised, shocked infact, if either Welsh or McVeigh put their hand up to be traded. Welsh more so.
McVeigh would certainly surprise me as he seems a very loyal type.
Longy413
27 Jun 2006, 18:03
Would the Ottens deal scare off Geelong?
I guess Lucas is a different scenario in that he has played consistent footy and hasn't had too many injury concerns.
mcphee_is_a_gun
27 Jun 2006, 18:06
Would the Ottens deal scare off Geelong?
I guess Lucas is a different scenario in that he has played consistent footy and hasn't had too many injury concerns.
i don't think it would because as you said Lucas is a proven performer and could definatelly help Geelong's forward line alot as well as maybe acting as a mentor to Hawkins and the like.
LOL, Jex, it may be advisable for you to check your facts before you go mouthing off but generally big mouths do that.
Rioli has said that he wants to get to 100 games and that he is considering retiring at the end of the year.
He may not get enough games in to get to 100 and hence maynot retire.
Further more Sheedy has been a big supporter of his and may talk him out of retiring so maybe before you declare him retired open your mind to possibilities.
He will retire , the operation he has just had was to repare the same damage that he had the opp for pre season . His knee is gone. The bone keeps crumbling and then he has to have an opp to clean it up every 3 or 4 months. He was on the radio not long ago before one of our games and he said it was very unlikely he will be able to play on.
blumfieldisback
27 Jun 2006, 19:47
I think welsh is tradeable because i think we could replace him, he isnt likely to become a midfielder and he doesnt have that leadership quality about him plus he makes far too many mistakes with his decsision making and skills.
Longy413
27 Jun 2006, 22:45
Welsh is a very good leader, more so off the field.
However there is a difference between being tradeable and requesting to be traded, as was the original discussion.
Welsh may well be tradeable, but he isn't the type to throw in the towel and want to go to another club.
blumfieldisback
27 Jun 2006, 23:15
oh you know him do u personally, are in the changerooms before the games are u. Longy your truly a supporter i dislike. I hope you have tissues beside your bedside when u read your bomber magazines.
cosidering i started this thread i think i can talk about what i want and the whole point of the thread was about who we could trade, not if they wanted to be traded.
and i made the comment about his on field leadership skills, i dont see him marshalling the backline helping out the younger players and i think he is tradeable because he is one of a very select few who has some bargaining power for the player he might be not where he actually is.
he is expendable because we could puch back mark johnson or soloman who would play a very similar role to aplomb.
Longy413
27 Jun 2006, 23:18
I really enjoy your posts, it's fantastic.
You threw up a discussion point, I replied. Isn't that why you started the thread?
Surely you are beyond personal insults, and to be honest, I can't remember the last time I read a Bomber Magazine. But if you like, I will apologise for being passionate about my club. And if I did know him personally, would that make any difference?
Also, didn't I say Welsh was tradeable and then expand on a previous discussion?
Someone else did throw up that Welsh might request a trade, read things in context.
Longy413
28 Jun 2006, 11:28
Also worth noting that Andrew Welsh captained Victoria at the Under 18 Championships. He was vice-captain until Judd pulled out injured.
I'm pretty sure he also captained Calder Cannons to a Premiership in 2001.
So even as a junior, his leadership skils were recognised.
dodgyJim
28 Jun 2006, 14:52
oh you know him do u personally, are in the changerooms before the games are u. Longy your truly a supporter i dislike. I hope you have tissues beside your bedside when u read your bomber magazines.
cosidering i started this thread i think i can talk about what i want and the whole point of the thread was about who we could trade, not if they wanted to be traded.
and i made the comment about his on field leadership skills, i dont see him marshalling the backline helping out the younger players and i think he is tradeable because he is one of a very select few who has some bargaining power for the player he might be not where he actually is.
he is expendable because we could puch back mark johnson or soloman who would play a very similar role to aplomb.
Welcome to the world of the public forum.
Reports that I hear from the club is that Welshy is well liked and more than a few people consider him captain material.
Longy413, I believe Welshy did captain the Calder Cannons in the 2001 premiership year. I also think he was a midfielder as well, strange to see him in the backline for so long if that was the case.
blumfieldisback
28 Jun 2006, 17:02
i know and understand its a public forum but i dont like being told what the discussion point is when i actually started the discussion in the first place.
yes i know, and understand that welsh was captain in the under 18's and captain of victoria but i dont see that reflection for the essendon seniors, actually the only thing i see him doing is yelling at his teamates when they dont spoil. I could not see him being a midfielder for us, ever. he isnt fast enough with hands or by feet (dodgy).
longy receiving personal insults would be your forte, your more then a passionate supporter your the type of supporter that makes others hate our club even more, you should be a carlton,collingwood or even a richmond supporter.
read things in context??? u said welsh isnt the one who would throw in the towel and want to be traded? the thread has nothing to do with a player asking to be traded, your the one thats out of line.
Longy413
28 Jun 2006, 17:20
Read the post I was replying to. I responded to a point made by another poster.
Don't tell me who I should and shouldn't support. I was born into an Essendon family, I grew up in Essendon, I live in Essendon and I'll continue to offer my opinion on Essendon. There is an ignore function.
And Andrew Welsh is great by hand, one of the best on our list. He is also great at beating his opponent, hardly beaten all year, even when not at his best. Took Pickett to the cleaners last week. He doesn't have to be a midfielder, he's already a good mid-sized defender.
Sure, he's tradeable (I said that didn't I?). But a poor leader he aint, a poor defender he aint, and poor by hand he aint.
Keep up the good work, I enjoy your posts.
i know and understand its a public forum but i dont like being told what the discussion point is when i actually started the discussion in the first place.
yes i know, and understand that welsh was captain in the under 18's and captain of victoria but i dont see that reflection for the essendon seniors, actually the only thing i see him doing is yelling at his teamates when they dont spoil. I could not see him being a midfielder for us, ever. he isnt fast enough with hands or by feet (dodgy).
longy receiving personal insults would be your forte, your more then a passionate supporter your the type of supporter that makes others hate our club even more, you should be a carlton,collingwood or even a richmond supporter.
read things in context??? u said welsh isnt the one who would throw in the towel and want to be traded? the thread has nothing to do with a player asking to be traded, your the one thats out of line.
hmmm given supporters of other clubs have generally voted longy the best Essendon poster i think you are sadly mistaken.
Longy and i dont agree on a lot of things but i always find his views interesting even if they are well wide of what i think.
Also worth noting that Andrew Welsh captained Victoria at the Under 18 Championships. He was vice-captain until Judd pulled out injured.
I'm pretty sure he also captained Calder Cannons to a Premiership in 2001.
So even as a junior, his leadership skils were recognised.
Welshy captained the Calder Cannons in 2001 after Reilly was injured. Welshy overcame a difficult upbringing to make it as an AFL player. As a Cannon he used to watch Essendon train EVERY wednesday just to learn about the game. The only other player to do that is Brock Mclean. I dont always agree with Longy but I respect his opinions and more so the right of everyone to express them without personal derision.
I too think Welsh is a REQUIRED player on our list and it would only stretch our resources even more if we were to let him go.
Just have to accept that our core starting side will remain until new additions/trades/rookies step up and challenge our seniors and raise the bar against complacency. Besides...we're in the box seat to gain a real genuine star with the pending draft coming up end of year
blumfieldisback
29 Jun 2006, 00:10
if he aint so poor why did he get dropped. he aint no leader, we have no leaders, if he was half a leader he would have been captain. u guys live with your head up your backsides, honestly. so what if he watched every essendon game when he was younger, i dont care the club is bigger then the individual, mark bolton grew up idolising essendon too, maybe we should have drafted ben McKinley who went to west coast, remember he was crying because he didnt get picked up by his beloved dons
i watched welsh against hawthorn and carlton and he couldnt hit the side of a barn, the only reason he has been good for us is because he usually runs into open space and provides a valuable link between fletcher and half forwrad but he more then often turns it over. he aint no mark thompson or gary o'donell or hardwick for that matter. he may or may not get better, all i know is richmond had a go for him last year and if he is worth something then we should highly consider it along with either the johnsons or solly. whoever said lucas well that would be fantastic we might go back to back spoons with that.
Longys arguments are pathetic at best i loved his ramanaskaus argument and his case for joel reynolds (i suppose after one ok game in 3 years you feel villified), he is a one eyed parochial supporter and I hate those type of supporters. im not accusing you personally but i wasnt one of the 40 odd thousand at the 95 essendon vs west coast game that jeered off paul salmon
ill be going to this friday nights game, the only reason i can think of is because i spport my club through thick and thin also so i applaud u for that longy, but im a realist we're mediocre and we dont have much to trade with, yet thgis draft has been billed up for the last 2 years, whilst we have the chance trade someone that maybe worth something for our long time survival we need 2 top 10 draft picks and we need some leadership qualities.
just because a player gets angry doesnt mean he is a leader and thats all welsh does.
get your head out of your backsides and think of the future because i sure as hell dont want my team to finish out of the finals next year and i think we shopuld do everything possible to give us the best skillfull list possible, if that includes getting rid of welsh so be it.
Gunnar Longshanks
29 Jun 2006, 04:02
Longys arguments are pathetic at best i loved his ramanaskaus argument and his case for joel reynolds (i suppose after one ok game in 3 years you feel villified)...What do you think "vilified" means?
Someone's missing a sheep from their top paddock.
What do you think "vilified" means?
Someone's missing a sheep from their top paddock.
a sheep ? i think the word "some" would be better used in that sentance :D
if he aint so poor why did he get dropped. he aint no leader, we have no leaders, if he was half a leader he would have been captain. u guys live with your head up your backsides, honestly. so what if he watched every essendon game when he was younger, i dont care the club is bigger then the individual, mark bolton grew up idolising essendon too, maybe we should have drafted ben McKinley who went to west coast, remember he was crying because he didnt get picked up by his beloved dons
i watched welsh against hawthorn and carlton and he couldnt hit the side of a barn, the only reason he has been good for us is because he usually runs into open space and provides a valuable link between fletcher and half forwrad but he more then often turns it over. he aint no mark thompson or gary o'donell or hardwick for that matter. he may or may not get better, all i know is richmond had a go for him last year and if he is worth something then we should highly consider it along with either the johnsons or solly. whoever said lucas well that would be fantastic we might go back to back spoons with that.
Longys arguments are pathetic at best i loved his ramanaskaus argument and his case for joel reynolds (i suppose after one ok game in 3 years you feel villified), he is a one eyed parochial supporter and I hate those type of supporters. im not accusing you personally but i wasnt one of the 40 odd thousand at the 95 essendon vs west coast game that jeered off paul salmon
ill be going to this friday nights game, the only reason i can think of is because i spport my club through thick and thin also so i applaud u for that longy, but im a realist we're mediocre and we dont have much to trade with, yet thgis draft has been billed up for the last 2 years, whilst we have the chance trade someone that maybe worth something for our long time survival we need 2 top 10 draft picks and we need some leadership qualities.
just because a player gets angry doesnt mean he is a leader and thats all welsh does.
get your head out of your backsides and think of the future because i sure as hell dont want my team to finish out of the finals next year and i think we shopuld do everything possible to give us the best skillfull list possible, if that includes getting rid of welsh so be it.
I think this rant pretty much sums it up for everyone else. Your problem is you start discusions but crack the ****s when anyone dares to disagree with anything you say;)
Longy413
29 Jun 2006, 11:00
if he aint so poor why did he get dropped. he aint no leader, we have no leaders, if he was half a leader he would have been captain.
I guess he got dropped because he wasn't playing great footy. A lot of players get dropped, it doesn't always spell the end.
You can be a good leader without being captain. Dean Wallis was a significant leader in the 2000 Premiership side. James Hird gives him a huge amount of credit for what happened that season, because of his leadership. Dean Wallis would never, ever have been captain of the Essendon Footy Club.
Welsh does a lot of work with the young blokes. I've heard Angus Monfries credit him for helping him adjust to the lifestyle and professionalism it takes to become an AFL footballer.
i watched welsh against hawthorn and carlton and he couldnt hit the side of a barn, the only reason he has been good for us is because he usually runs into open space and provides a valuable link between fletcher and half forwrad but he more then often turns it over.
Welsh has had a few poor games this season. Carlton was really bad.
But he beats his opponent near on every single week. He also is one of two blokes that actually tries to create run and drive from half back. He's right up there in the comp for rebound 50's.
His kicking needs to improve, although there are 23 other blokes on our list that average more errors per game than Welsh does. Not to bad considering Welsh is second at the club for disposals.
he aint no mark thompson or gary o'donell or hardwick for that matter.
Bomber and O'Donnell were two of our best players of the last 20 years. They were club Champions and Dimma wasn't far off that mark. Welsh isn't as good as any of them, however I'm not sure what you remember of Bomber, but he wasn't a great kick either. He was a worse kick then Welsh. Dimma wasn't all flash either. But what they all had going for them was their ability to beat their opponent, show pride and passion in the jumper and fly the flag for their club.
Longys arguments are pathetic at best i loved his ramanaskaus argument and his case for joel reynolds (i suppose after one ok game in 3 years you feel villified), he is a one eyed parochial supporter and I hate those type of supporters. im not accusing you personally but i wasnt one of the 40 odd thousand at the 95 essendon vs west coast game that jeered off paul salmon
1) I don't think Rama getting cancer again proves me wrong and you using that against me is not only pathetic, but insensitive, unfair and rather sad.
2) If you care to have a look around, I've admitted I was wrong on Reynolds.
3) I'm extremely objective. I've said time and time again in this thread alone that Welsh is tradeable. Your problem is you only read what you want to read.
4) I didn't boo Fish off either.
but im a realist we're mediocre and we dont have much to trade with, yet thgis draft has been billed up for the last 2 years, whilst we have the chance trade someone that maybe worth something for our long time survival we need 2 top 10 draft picks and we need some leadership qualities.
You're a realist, yet you make claims that Essendon will be Premiers in 2007. Hmmmm.
Welsh isn't worth a top 10 draft pick and if we do end the season with less than four wins we'll have pick 1, 17 and 18. That is probably as good as having three top 10 picks in previous years. But I agree, another top 10 pick would be fantastic, not sure anyone will give one up though.
And I thought you said you didn't care about leadership qualities at under 18 level?
get your head out of your backsides and think of the future because i sure as hell dont want my team to finish out of the finals next year and i think we shopuld do everything possible to give us the best skillfull list possible, if that includes getting rid of welsh so be it.
Again, I didn't say Welsh wasn't tradeable.
I'm just not sure people rate him in the right light.
Mind you, Welsh is only 23. He is rarely beaten, gets the ball 20 times a game. Who is to say he won't improve?
Again, I didn't say Welsh wasn't tradeable.
I'm just not sure people rate him in the right light.
Mind you, Welsh is only 23. He is rarely beaten, gets the ball 20 times a game. Who is to say he won't improve?
I don't want to make a big deal about this BUT,
Welsh is often beaten
I would hope you could get the ball 20 times a game when it spends 65% of the time on our backiline these days and what does he do with the ball those 20 times is more my criticism of him.Plus disposal stats are quite irrelevant these days with all the easy kicks gained.
He certainly needs to improve, but good point he may.
We wouldn't get a top 30 pick for him IMO
Longy413
29 Jun 2006, 13:29
If the ball is spending 65% of the time in our backline, doesn't that increase the difficulty of a defender beating his opponent?
Which of his opponents have beaten him?
Didak did on Anzac Day, although when he was keeping Swan quiet in the midfield I'm not sure why he was moved. Steve Johnson kicked a couple on him after he was quiet for most of the day. Did he play on Chick? I can't remember.
He's been beaten a few times this year and has had bad games, as I said a couple of times. But beaten often, no. Defensively, he does his job most weeks and if we could get a better structure down back, Welsh would improve significantly.
Richmond supposedly offered ud Greg Tivendale for Andrew Welsh. If anyone wqould seriously prefer tivendale to Welsh then I have grave fears for your sanity. The only players I think MAY garner a first round pick in trade are Lloyd, Lucas, Hille, McPhee and maybe McVeigh. Fletcher and Hird are too old while Stanton and Monfries havent done enough IMO.
Ok Essendon supporters we would not waste our first pick on Scott Lucas. We have already got Ottens in a deal like that. Lucas is passed his peak. And we do not want to risk anything like that. No-one will give you a first round draft pick for Lucas. this draft is eant to be to good. Lucas wont give you much longer. While a first round draft pick can give you up to 10 years.
So stop suggesting that we would take him!!!
wazzabp
30 Jun 2006, 04:52
Richmond supposedly offered ud Greg Tivendale for Andrew Welsh. If anyone wqould seriously prefer tivendale to Welsh then I have grave fears for your sanity. The only players I think MAY garner a first round pick in trade are Lloyd, Lucas, Hille, McPhee and maybe McVeigh. Fletcher and Hird are too old while Stanton and Monfries havent done enough IMO.
Thank fluck we didn't end up with that Tivendale girl!:)
If the ball is spending 65% of the time in our backline, doesn't that increase the difficulty of a defender beating his opponent?
Which of his opponents have beaten him?
Didak did on Anzac Day, although when he was keeping Swan quiet in the midfield I'm not sure why he was moved. Steve Johnson kicked a couple on him after he was quiet for most of the day. Did he play on Chick? I can't remember.
He's been beaten a few times this year and has had bad games, as I said a couple of times. But beaten often, no. Defensively, he does his job most weeks and if we could get a better structure down back, Welsh would improve significantly.
I'm disagreeing on Welsh's defensive skills. I don't think he beats his man often enough, that goes for previous years as well. I think it's mainly to do with the kind of player he can match being somewhat limited, basically small to mid-size players who don't have great pace. Every year there is fewer of those around. He can sometimes beat the pacier players but as a general rule all the opposition has to do is push him and his opponent deep forward and he'll be beaten on short quick leads.
Ok Essendon supporters we would not waste our first pick on Scott Lucas. We have already got Ottens in a deal like that. Lucas is passed his peak. And we do not want to risk anything like that. No-one will give you a first round draft pick for Lucas. this draft is eant to be to good. Lucas wont give you much longer. While a first round draft pick can give you up to 10 years.
So stop suggesting that we would take him!!!
Not that I want to lose Scotty, but I think it's folly to equate Scotty with Ottens. Scotty would kick you 50 odd goals without blinking, and would actually perform and give value for what you gave up. He'd do it for at least 3 years yet.
Richmond supposedly offered ud Greg Tivendale for Andrew Welsh. If anyone wqould seriously prefer tivendale to Welsh then I have grave fears for your sanity. The only players I think MAY garner a first round pick in trade are Lloyd, Lucas, Hille, McPhee and maybe McVeigh. Fletcher and Hird are too old while Stanton and Monfries havent done enough IMO.
You are kidding right?
Stanton is a very good footballer and monfries, while he will get a lot better has been quite good and has shown whats to come
=.......... while Stanton and Monfries havent done enough IMO.[/QUOTE]
You've lost the plot, buddy. Only needed to look at tonight's performance...particularly Stantons and AccaDacca will develop into a handy second string forward pocket dynamo.
bar the young kids.. can we have the whole bendigo bombers as an inclusion for next week.. yes you laugh but im dead serious :o:o
The only players I think MAY garner a first round pick in trade are Lloyd, Lucas, Hille, McPhee and maybe McVeigh. Fletcher and Hird are too old while Stanton and Monfries havent done enough IMO.
You're right there. In a draft as strong as the upcoming one, to give up your first round pick will have to be for someone of the ilk of the players mentioned.
However there is a chance we could "trade up" a pick.
If we could trade a player along with pick 17 (I don't think we're allowed to give up pick 18 if awarded), we maybe able to snare another top 10 pick. This I believe is hugely important to snare one of the quality talls behind Gibbs. The club that accepts the trade may think the draft is so deep its worth the punt on gaining a very good player along with pick 17 and still get a very good kid with it.
So far I am yet to hear of anyone coming out of contract from other clubs that would make a massive impact to our club let alone give up pick 17 for. Lance Franklin is probably the only one I would consider but I would hope sheedy could snare him in the pre-season for nothing, but chances of that are slim at best.
The thing is we can really set ourselves up for the coming years in this draft but we have to make a hard decision and trade up our pick 17. Whether that be trading a Welsh or even a Monfries (dear god did I really say that? :( ) along with pick 17 to get another inside 10 then we need to consider it.
Now obviously I would hope someone would be stupid enough to accept bolton and pick 17, but i doubt it.
Now there is Gibbs and probably 2 or 3 other midfielders and probably 5 stand out talls destined for greatness to go top 10-15 and we need two picks inside that to grab one of each, what are we willing to give for that?
mcphee_is_a_gun
1 Jul 2006, 23:10
You're right there. In a draft as strong as the upcoming one, to give up your first round pick will have to be for someone of the ilk of the players mentioned.
However there is a chance we could "trade up" a pick.
If we could trade a player along with pick 17 (I don't think we're allowed to give up pick 18 if awarded), we maybe able to snare another top 10 pick. This I believe is hugely important to snare one of the quality talls behind Gibbs. The club that accepts the trade may think the draft is so deep its worth the punt on gaining a very good player along with pick 17 and still get a very good kid with it.
So far I am yet to hear of anyone coming out of contract from other clubs that would make a massive impact to our club let alone give up pick 17 for. Lance Franklin is probably the only one I would consider but I would hope sheedy could snare him in the pre-season for nothing, but chances of that are slim at best.
The thing is we can really set ourselves up for the coming years in this draft but we have to make a hard decision and trade up our pick 17. Whether that be trading a Welsh or even a Monfries (dear god did I really say that? :( ) along with pick 17 to get another inside 10 then we need to consider it.
Now obviously I would hope someone would be stupid enough to accept bolton and pick 17, but i doubt it.
Now there is Gibbs and probably 2 or 3 other midfielders and probably 5 stand out talls destined for greatness to go top 10-15 and we need two picks inside that to grab one of each, what are we willing to give for that?
Great post agree with all points except even considering trading Monfries. Under no circumstances should we even think about it. Someone like Welsh or a Lovett maybe even Lovett-Murray + our 2nd or 3rd pick to try and trade into the top 10 would be a good move.
Great post agree with all points except even considering trading Monfries. Under no circumstances should we even think about it. Someone like Welsh or a Lovett maybe even Lovett-Murray + our 2nd or 3rd pick to try and trade into the top 10 would be a good move.
Just to be clear, I was fighting back the tears when writing that :p
Gus is amazing, if only he was 6'4!
but I guess I was just emphasing my point that we have to give up someone decent for anyone to give up a top ten pick in this current draft. Using gus as an example, trading him back home, say to port would get us our prized top 10 pick for sure. But if I had it my way I would see gussy pull on his jumper for another 150 games for the bombers at least.
Though I would also think up to 10 past "un-touchables" should be worried about their place in the squad for next season.
Deadly Hedley
2 Jul 2006, 00:30
Lets look at reality and realise that we dont have a lot to offer other clubs for top gun players or high draft picks. That said , on current performance I would offer anyboby for the right player (subjective).
Our fringe trade options are not going to land much as finishing low diminishes your bargaining power.
If a Judd was up for grabs- Welsh, Lucas, Bradley and second pick would be required(at least).
No trade value for worth in Jonnos, Fletch, Llyod, Hird (ha ha),Solly etc.
Others depend on how bad we want them gone and what we get for them(obvious). Overall I think Welsh, Lucas ,Llyod, McPhee ,McViegh and some of our younger players are all that other clubs will look at.Some of these are no go , hence we are not in a strond position, trade wise. Assuming we keep our draft positions.:o
You are kidding right?
Stanton is a very good footballer and monfries, while he will get a lot better has been quite good and has shown whats to come
If I was kidding I would have put a :) on my post mate. I suggest you watch some TAC cup, some National championship games and develop some realism. They are both good prospects who are in our best side but both have flaws to work on. Stants has to work on his kicking and vision while Gus needs to develop an AFL body. If I was kidding I would suggest a player leave us to join sydney.
Gunnar Longshanks
4 Jul 2006, 06:45
Lance Franklin is probably the only one I would consider but I would hope sheedy could snare him in the pre-season for nothing, but chances of that are slim at best. If Franklin was prepared to shaft the Hawks, wouldn't he be inclined to head back to WA?
Doesn't make much sense for him to screw Hawthorn over only to remain in Melbourne.
Besides, do you really want to throw a stack of money at a kid who has yet to do that much?
Longy413
4 Jul 2006, 10:47
How would he screw the Hawks over by requesting a trade were there is every chance it will end up a 50/50 outcome?
And hasn't his family moved over to Victoria?
And no, we shouldn't be throwing a stack at him, but we should be putting some pressure on Hawthorn.
How would he screw the Hawks over by requesting a trade were there is every chance it will end up a 50/50 outcome?
And hasn't his family moved over to Victoria?
And no, we shouldn't be throwing a stack at him, but we should be putting some pressure on Hawthorn.
Agree Completely:thumbsu:
When we were on top other clubs offered a ton of money at our players which put salary cap pressure on us which meant we eventually had to lose good players. We need to be Aggressive and force clubs to pay more than they really want to. I hope we target Richmond who are supposedly notorious for doing it.
Agree Completely:thumbsu:
When we were on top other clubs offered a ton of money at our players which put salary cap pressure on us which meant we eventually had to lose good players. We need to be Aggressive and force clubs to pay more than they really want to. I hope we target Richmond who are supposedly notorious for doing it.
mmmm deledio :p
Despite the alleged strength of this years draft, I would not trade scott lucas for less than 2 first round picks. In fact I dont want to trade him at all, even though he has had some bad patches he has been a important player that has proven himself many times for our club. If brad ottens and jonathan hay are worth 2 first round picks than lucas is easily. Had lucas been playing for geelong in the last 2 years, I believe he would have kicked at least 50 goals each year. I also believe that lucas still has some good football left in him.
I read in one of the previous posts that Mcphee might want to leave club, I hope this doesnt happen coz i think he is just down on form and confidence at the moment, but i think he can get back to the from he showed 2 years ago. If it was to happen he would be worth than andrew welsh who even though has been more consistant over his career does not have to potential, versatility and the marketability of Mcphee who has been an all australian. We might get something decent in return for Mcphee but hope he does not leave.
Welsh on the other hand is just a dime a dozen half back who has been reasonable but doesnt offer us the run and creativity out of the back line that players like McPhee, M, Johnson, NLM do. I doubt we would get anything lower than pick 40 for him unless sheedy can pull the wool over someones eyes as he has in the past. It also must be considered that there may be no point trading him only to get similiar qaulity in return, which is the most likely scenario.
I have had my doubts about lovett, but I think his position should be at half forward and played some good games there this year. Despite his pace I dont think he is a midfielder and would be better used at half forward as he is good overhead, can deliver skillfully to our forwards and kick a goal or two. He is one player I would persist with.
I know it frustrating to have players you feel arent upto scratch, but you have to consider what you actually get in return, most of the time its more of the same.
How would he screw the Hawks over by requesting a trade were there is every chance it will end up a 50/50 outcome?
And hasn't his family moved over to Victoria?
And no, we shouldn't be throwing a stack at him, but we should be putting some pressure on Hawthorn.
I'd say Gunnar was referring to the suggestion that we could grab Lance in the PSD, therby shafting the Hawks. As opposed to a trade where might get value.