View Full Version : the kids
djharps
16 Jul 2006, 00:54
i think it is starting to show now the chemistry between in the kids especially in the midfield and forward
stanton,dyson,nash,watson look the goods in the middle
whilst up forward monfries and lovett have cemented spots
writing is on the wall for johns, lee, bradley and reynolds <-- whom i feel have all shown potential and i feel all can take that step up but need to.. give bradley some more time to develop and get over his gumpyness
laycock and winders are unlucky and i hope they have a speedy return
ryder looks to dominate in the future
the game v st kilda showed the importance of the seniors stepping up and leading the way... i still think lucas and reynolds are not enough as marking options up forward.. hope johns comes back in quick and maybe put mcphee down there or bolton (he can take a mark) as more tall options or lee
i think it is starting to show now the chemistry between in the kids especially in the midfield and forward
stanton,dyson,nash,watson look the goods in the middle
whilst up forward monfries and lovett have cemented spots
writing is on the wall for johns, lee, bradley and reynolds <-- whom i feel have all shown potential and i feel all can take that step up but need to.. give bradley some more time to develop and get over his gumpyness
laycock and winders are unlucky and i hope they have a speedy return
ryder looks to dominate in the future
the game v st kilda showed the importance of the seniors stepping up and leading the way... i still think lucas and reynolds are not enough as marking options up forward.. hope johns comes back in quick and maybe put mcphee down there or bolton (he can take a mark) as more tall options or lee
Johns and Lee :confused: Both are playing their first season of continual footy. Lee didnt play at all last year at any level so he is virtually a first year player. As for Johns yes he has been on the list for a while but it is the first season he has played in which he has had a pre season base to work with.He will be around next year and he will be ok ;)
I doubt you will see Johns go anywhere in the future. Sheeds should and will keep the faith, he is a very handy depth player who is good enough to be in the 22 next year if he keeps injury free.
i think it is starting to show now the chemistry between in the kids especially in the midfield and forward
stanton,dyson,nash,watson look the goods in the middle
whilst up forward monfries and lovett have cemented spots
writing is on the wall for johns, lee, bradley and reynolds <-- whom i feel have all shown potential and i feel all can take that step up but need to.. give bradley some more time to develop and get over his gumpyness
laycock and winders are unlucky and i hope they have a speedy return
ryder looks to dominate in the future
the game v st kilda showed the importance of the seniors stepping up and leading the way... i still think lucas and reynolds are not enough as marking options up forward.. hope johns comes back in quick and maybe put mcphee down there or bolton (he can take a mark) as more tall options or lee
I'm not so sure what you are basing the " ryder looks to dominate in the future" on as i think he looks very timid.
I'm not saying he wont make it, as he prolly will but he has a long long way to go.
Hence the word future.
His tap work and athletisism is outstanding and he has looked really good in the VFL when he is there. He may look timid when playing seniors but when he starts to totally dominate the VFL and translate that confidence to the seniors then we will see why we drafted him. He is very young and raw and most ruckman take a while to blossom, although I believe Ryder will grow faster than most, he won't be playing week in week out for at least a couple of years, patience is the key.
Hence the word future.
His tap work and athletisism is outstanding and he has looked really good in the VFL when he is there. He may look timid when playing seniors but when he starts to totally dominate the VFL and translate that confidence to the seniors then we will see why we drafted him. He is very young and raw and most ruckman take a while to blossom, although I believe Ryder will grow faster than most, he won't be playing week in week out for at least a couple of years, patience is the key.
Yeah i also like the looks of him but i just think we get too carried away too early.
I wasnt questioning that he could be good but more what has he actually done/shown so far to label with dominate.
It's a pretty big word
Don Draper
16 Jul 2006, 13:53
Our midfield looks very promising for the future. As long as we sign them all up to long-term deals and keep them all together for years to come to form a midfield like Brisbanes. I doubt Johns will go seeing as this is his first full season, he has shown some promise.
-Mav
I actually think Ryder should eventually be used like Goodes when he bulks up and gets more aggressive as his experience progresses. Laycock would be the one Id earmark as a dominant ruckman in tandem with Hille.
Across the board, our kids are looking promising and a CHB would definitely help our stocks and enforce our backline which still is heavily reliant on Fletcher.
I think a KP draft pick would be more valuable than another up n coming midfielder. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
AnGuS#6
16 Jul 2006, 18:31
Reynolds is rubbish... even though he can pop up for 2 goals he kicks more than that for the other team with his terrible skills and footybrain.
I'd be very dissapointed if he's at the club next year.
Here is how I rate the kids I've seen:
A: Dyson, Monfries, Stanton, Watson
B: Nash, Johns, Dempsey, Laycock, Winderlich, Slattery
C: Kepler, Cartledge, Ryder
D: Reynolds, Henneman
btw: I dnt count Lovett as a kid. (He's almost 24)
Donsforever
16 Jul 2006, 18:35
Well said Angus#6, Reynolds should have created a new grade just for him, grade E.
Darealrath
16 Jul 2006, 18:51
Ease up on Reynolds. He's alright. Could work well with Lloyd next season out of a pocket.
Dr Moose
16 Jul 2006, 18:59
I actually think Ryder should eventually be used like Goodes when he bulks up and gets more aggressive as his experience progresses. Laycock would be the one Id earmark as a dominant ruckman in tandem with Hille.
Across the board, our kids are looking promising and a CHB would definitely help our stocks and enforce our backline which still is heavily reliant on Fletcher.
I think a KP draft pick would be more valuable than another up n coming midfielder. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Too much of a GOOD THING IS RIGHT!
Agreeing that Hille (202cm, 109kg) is our key ruck, with Laycock (200cm, 102kg) as #2, how many out of Ryder (197/88), Bradley (198/103), Bolton (195/91), Watson (191/90), Cartledge (199/93), Lee (196/90) and Lucy (193/90) can we honestly say are key-position players for the next 5 years? Lee seems best suited to take over from Fletcher IMO, and Jobe could be a great CHF, but really, where will the others end up?
AnGuS#6
16 Jul 2006, 19:12
Too much of a GOOD THING IS RIGHT!
Agreeing that Hille (202cm, 109kg) is our key ruck, with Laycock (200cm, 102kg) as #2, how many out of Ryder (197/88), Bradley (198/103), Bolton (195/91), Watson (191/90), Cartledge (199/93), Lee (196/90) and Lucy (193/90) can we honestly say are key-position players for the next 5 years? Lee seems best suited to take over from Fletcher IMO, and Jobe could be a great CHF, but really, where will the others end up?
1) Bolton has to go.
2) Jobe's never going to be a KPP, but he will serve us well in the Midfield.
3) most clubs have three Ruckmen/Forwards (Hille, Laycock, Ryder)
4) If Kepler (CHB), Cartledge (CHF) and Lee (FB) can make the big league they can be KPP.
5) I dont know anything about Lucy
* The only problem I can see is maybe 1 too many Ruckmen... Cartledge may have to go.
stander
16 Jul 2006, 19:33
1) Bolton has to go.
2) Jobe's never going to be a KPP, but he will serve us well in the Midfield.
3) most clubs have three Ruckmen/Forwards (Hille, Laycock, Ryder)
4) If Kepler (CHB), Cartledge (CHF) and Lee (FB) can make the big league they can be KPP.
5) I dont know anything about Lucy
* The only problem I can see is maybe 1 too many Ruckmen... Cartledge may have to go.
Laycock is looking much too brittle at this stage of career. Get rid of him and Cartledge for an early second round pick. Reynolds and Dyson are O.K.
Laycock is looking much too brittle at this stage of career. Get rid of him and Cartledge for an early second round pick. Reynolds and Dyson are O.K.
Keep Laycock, hes going to be a very very handy player.
Cartledge would never make a CHF and imo won't be there next year.
Wouldn't get anything for him in a trade.
AnGuS#6
16 Jul 2006, 19:57
Keep Laycock, hes going to be a very very handy player.
Cartledge would never make a CHF and imo won't be there next year.
Wouldn't get anything for him in a trade.
Trade Cartledge, Reynolds and Bolton... Try for a 2nd Rnd
Dr Moose
16 Jul 2006, 20:10
Trade Cartledge, Reynolds and Bolton... Try for a 2nd Rnd
That's my view too. Laycock isn't especially fragile just yet, mostly strains and soreness from what I can gather. That being said, a knee or shoulder recon would put him out for good IMO, unless his strength improves dramatically during the rest of this season.
Seems like everyone has forgotten about Lonergan. Thought he played his part on Saturday. Applied great pressure and tackled hard causing a few opposition turnovers.
Dr Moose
16 Jul 2006, 21:39
Seems like everyone has forgotten about Lonergan. Thought he played his part on Saturday. Applied great pressure and tackled hard causing a few opposition turnovers.
Not forgotten, but I can't put him in the same class as Monfries or Stanton. Unfortunately his senior appearances will always be sporadic, although maybe the next 4 disposals will tell more of the tale
Bomberz_pacers07
16 Jul 2006, 21:44
Nash looks good enough across half-back. Has good skills and when he gets more confidence in his game(by playing more senior games) he will be a more than handy player for us in the future.
djharps
16 Jul 2006, 22:48
Reynolds is rubbish... even though he can pop up for 2 goals he kicks more than that for the other team with his terrible skills and footybrain.
I'd be very dissapointed if he's at the club next year.
Here is how I rate the kids I've seen:
A: Dyson, Monfries, Stanton, Watson
B: Nash, Johns, Dempsey, Laycock, Winderlich, Slattery
C: Kepler, Cartledge, Ryder
D: Reynolds, Henneman
btw: I dnt count Lovett as a kid. (He's almost 24)
i cannot believe you have put kepler and cartledge in the same class pffft, cartledge stuggles to make the side and from what i have seen in the seniors he is not up to scratch, whilst kepler starts on the ground every game and has played on some of the leagues best players
I don't think our kids have been the problem. It's the middle tier - they key to every team - that is our problem.
Lets split our team up into two groups. A.)The kids (Watson, Dyson, Slattery, Stanton, Laycock Lovett etc etc)...
... and B.) The premiership players, or the players who were established players in 2000.
Now the premiership players, are getting towards the end now, so the imporant group I am looking at is the group IN BETWEEN these two groups.
Which players established themselves after the flag, but have been around long enough to not be a kid anymore?
McVeigh is one. Welsh is another. Peverill, McPhee, Hille, and that's about it. Pev, McPhee and Welsh have been struggling this season, McVeigh has been a champ this year and Hille solid.
And that is the reason for our fall. Where is the in between group?
Reynolds is rubbish... even though he can pop up for 2 goals he kicks more than that for the other team with his terrible skills and footybrain.
I'd be very dissapointed if he's at the club next year.
Here is how I rate the kids I've seen:
A: Dyson, Monfries, Stanton, Watson
B: Nash, Johns, Dempsey, Laycock, Winderlich, Slattery
C: Kepler, Cartledge, Ryder
D: Reynolds, Henneman
btw: I dnt count Lovett as a kid. (He's almost 24)
Has been on our list forever, he is well past being a kid lol
Ryder and Kepler are a mile in front of Cartledge.
Longy413
17 Jul 2006, 09:51
Trade Cartledge, Reynolds and Bolton... Try for a 2nd Rnd
I presume you mean for a package deal, but there is no way we'd get a second round pick for each of those three.
In order for a club to do that, they'd first have to delist three players.
They'd then have to make room in their salary cap for two blokes that would be on base and Mark Bolton I'm presuming would be on a fair bit more than that. So there is around $250,000 of cap space that would need to be found.
Cartledge couldn't get a game when we had 17 blokes out, he's delisting material.
Reynolds may have a little value, not much. Bolton if a club sees him as the right fit for what they need.
But you are never going to offload three players together in one deal.
kenrosewall
17 Jul 2006, 10:12
Seems like everyone has forgotten about Lonergan. Thought he played his part on Saturday. Applied great pressure and tackled hard causing a few opposition turnovers.
I thought he looked good on Saturday, keeps his feet very well which most Dons struggle with (i.e. Soloman). Very strong through the hips and very clean with his hands off the deck.
I have seen him in 1 or 2 Bendigo games and he reads the contested play well around stoppages.
Given he only had about 10 minutes game time, I reckon he showed enough.
I'm going out on a limb and I reckon he will play 15+ games for us next year. Very promising.
I presume you mean for a package deal, but there is no way we'd get a second round pick for each of those three.
In order for a club to do that, they'd first have to delist three players.
They'd then have to make room in their salary cap for two blokes that would be on base and Mark Bolton I'm presuming would be on a fair bit more than that. So there is around $250,000 of cap space that would need to be found.
Cartledge couldn't get a game when we had 17 blokes out, he's delisting material.
Reynolds may have a little value, not much. Bolton if a club sees him as the right fit for what they need.
But you are never going to offload three players together in one deal.
Spot on Longy.
Another problem we have trying to trade Bolton is that clubs have seen him play for many years now, and know exactly what they are getting and what his limit is.
He has no upside, which is what a lot of trades are done on, as clubs think if they can improve a player he will be worth it.
Reynolds won't make it and imo wouldnt get a club interested in trading for him and the same goes for Cartledge
Delist them both and keep Bolton for depth.
Longy413
17 Jul 2006, 10:39
Delist them both and keep Bolton for depth.
We'd be better off keeping Reynolds for depth than Bolton.
At least Reynolds is a chance to improve. Bolton still makes basic mistakes after nine years on the list.
As you said, Bolton has no upside.
We'd be better off keeping Reynolds for depth than Bolton.
At least Reynolds is a chance to improve. Bolton still makes basic mistakes after nine years on the list.
As you said, Bolton has no upside.
I'm not as big a critic of Bolton as many on this and other forums.
He does make mistakes sure, but he also can perform some handy jobs occasionally and is rarely injured.
On the other hand Reynolds goes missing in games where he will not touch the ball for quarters on end and has had a lot of injuries.Also if we are playing all our possible forward line next year, he will have a lot more competition to get a kick.I just don't see him as being any good or having much upside as he has been playing for his football future all year and although has shown more it's more because he hasnt had the injuries which has allowed us to at least see what he can do.
Not enough imo
I wouldnt be too disapointed if we delisted them all but if we had to keep one i would prefer it to be Bolton
Longy413
17 Jul 2006, 10:55
Yeah fair enough, I'll agree to disagree.
For what it's worth, I reckon Bolts is also guilty of the claims you made about Reynolds. IE Going missing for long periods.
I guess Joel has the rest of the year to convince us.
stander
17 Jul 2006, 12:41
That's my view too. Laycock isn't especially fragile just yet, mostly strains and soreness from what I can gather. That being said, a knee or shoulder recon would put him out for good IMO, unless his strength improves dramatically during the rest of this season.
You are an imposter Doc Moose- Laycock is very fragile according to his injury history which includes ; This season-knee arthroscope, Pre season- shoulder surgery, knee arthroscope, ankle surgery and in 2005 -problems with his calf, shoulder and knee.
Get rid of him now for an early second round pick imo.
Daytripper
17 Jul 2006, 13:18
We'd be better off keeping Reynolds for depth than Bolton.
At least Reynolds is a chance to improve. Bolton still makes basic mistakes after nine years on the list.
As you said, Bolton has no upside.
Bolts has been okay for us this season. He gets a bad rap from the supporters.
He's got his limitations but plays within them most of the time. That he has been in the system for eight years shows to me that he can play at AFL standard.
Reynolds is a handy VFL footballer.
Has never shown to me that he can play at the top level.
Longy413
17 Jul 2006, 13:27
This will be Mark Bolton's 9th season.
This is arguably his best season.
He will end this season without having a single finish in the top 10 of the clubs best and fairest.
Two decent seasons in nine isn't nearly enough. A bloke that has played 100 games, done nine pre-seasons, never had a long term injury, is in his peak shouldn't be playing okay. We should expect more.
The amount of times he let Maguire stand between himself and the ball was amazing on Saturday, and extremely costly.
He's no better this year than he was six years ago. He hasn't actually improved, he hasn't got any smarter. He doesn't read the play any better. He does the occassional shut down role and occasionaly gives us a leading option across half forward.
At least Joel Reynolds has improved this season and shown he actually has some football ability to go with athletic ability. He's not safe Joel, a long way from it. But at least he's a chance to improve.
Fingers crossed Reynolds does convince some of us doubters he can mix it at senior level, but in saying that....if a club were to offer us an underdeveloped tall for him, Id hope they really look at it. I truly think our 180-190cms type player list is set in terms of youth. Im hoping the game against the Saints hasnt taken too much out of them as our record in the wet isnt very flash at the minute.
Totally off the track here, just been reading the round 15 ponderings...how the hell does Grant Thomas become acknowledged as 'Coach of the Week' ?
How absurd! Surely Rocket and Craig are the leaders at minute in regards to accolades!