Key Position set up for next year

[daveyboy3]

This all basically depends on the continual improvement of Johns and his ability to play CHF, but basically i'd like to see the following.

Lloyd at FF, Johns at CHF ( thought he looked good as a leading target up the ground vs Geelong) then one of Hille/Laycock being a big target behind a leading Lloyd.
This allows Lucas to CHB where he gives lots of drive, Fletcher obviously at Full Back and then for Lee to learn his craft on the oppositions third tall rather than their CHF. Also frees Bradely up to play pretty freely from Hb/wing where i think he plays far better than when he has a quality opponent to beat.

I think that set up, with the possibility of a hansen or Gumbleton as well could work pretty well for us.

[DaSawx]

Good post, although I'm not sure taking Lucas away from CHF is the best thing, he's 50-60 goals a year are too important.

I'm not sure what the best way to address CHB is. I'd love to draft Gumbleton but not sure how he would start in the AFL playing CHB, might be good for his learning curve. Then if he was to turn out a gun CHF then maybe try Lucas back there.

Thoughts?

[daveyboy3]

Good post, although I'm not sure taking Lucas away from CHF is the best thing, he's 50-60 goals a year are too important.
Thoughts?

I know moving Lucas away from CHF isn't the ideal option. But if Johns turned out to be good enough to kick 30-35 goals from CHF compared to Lucas' 50 i think that whilst we may be losing around 1 goal a game up foward we would probably be saving 2-3 down back. Could also eliminate the potential problem of having lloyd and Johns, both leading left footers, competing with each other in the 50.

[Merv]

This would be my foward line

Johns Lloyd M.Johnson
Lovett Lucas Midfielders rotate through this position

I would prefer John to lead straight out and mark hence why i prefer him in FP
M.johnson can fly for a mark but will also add a lot of toughness to the forward line and fight for every contest making it harder for defenders to get easy clearances.
The others speak for themselves and i would use the HFF as a midfielder rotation like dyson,stanton,J.johnson,campo etc

[Daytripper]

I know moving Lucas away from CHF isn't the ideal option. But if Johns turned out to be good enough to kick 30-35 goals from CHF compared to Lucas' 50 i think that whilst we may be losing around 1 goal a game up foward we would probably be saving 2-3 down back. Could also eliminate the potential problem of having lloyd and Johns, both leading left footers, competing with each other in the 50.
Don't think Courtney's got the engine to play CHF.
They do a lot of running these days - just look at the amount of ground Lucas covers in a game. He's down at the HB line quite often.

Johns looks a pure full forward to me.
I'd even give him a shot at full back. He's got speed, strength and a decent footy brain.

Anything other than those two positions would be doubtful at this stage in his development unless he does a heap of aerobic work over the next three summers.

[daveyboy3]

This would be my foward line

Johns Lloyd M.Johnson
Lovett Lucas Midfielders rotate through this position

I would prefer John to lead straight out and mark hence why i prefer him in FP
M.johnson can fly for a mark but will also add a lot of toughness to the forward line and fight for every contest making it harder for defenders to get easy clearances.
The others speak for themselves and i would use the HFF as a midfielder rotation like dyson,stanton,J.johnson,campo etc

I think that would work well unless you take into account the resting ruckman. While it wont happen every week im sure there will be times when all of Ryder, Laycock and Hille play. One in the ruck, one on the bench and one up foward. This is when Id push johns out of the 50, and Lucas back. We would be too top heavy otherwise.

[DaSawx]

Don't think Courtney's got the engine to play CHF.
They do a lot of running these days - just look at the amount of ground Lucas covers in a game. He's down at the HB line quite often.

Johns looks a pure full forward to me.
I'd even give him a shot at full back. He's got speed, strength and a decent footy brain.

Anything other than those two positions would be doubtful at this stage in his development unless he does a heap of aerobic work over the next three summers.

Johns doesn't have the nouse to play down back. He cant move sideways and would struggle with the quick forwards moving around everywhere.

Try him up forward with Lloyd, he doesn't have to play all 22 games and his body may not let him anyway.

[Longy413]

No thoughts of pushing Lloydy further up the ground?

People forget how much time he spent away from the goal-square in 2000 because we had other options. With Johns and also Lovett/Lucas we now have more options.

As I've mentioned before, one of Lloyd's greatest qualities is his ability to sacrifise his own game for the greater good. If he recognises Johns/Lucas have a physical advantage over their opponent he'll push up the ground to exploit that.

Wouldn't at all suprise me to see Lloyd playing infront of Johns next season.

[Daytripper]

Johns doesn't have the nouse to play down back. He cant move sideways and would struggle with the quick forwards moving around everywhere.

Try him up forward with Lloyd, he doesn't have to play all 22 games and his body may not let him anyway.

Most modern day full backs are ex full forwards.

I reckon its worth a try in the practice matches. Just gives us another option if Fletch goes down.
He's too good a player to be left out of the side due to team balance and the fact he can only play one position at this stage.

[DaSawx]

No thoughts of pushing Lloydy further up the ground?

People forget how much time he spent away from the goal-square in 2000 because we had other options. With Johns and also Lovett/Lucas we now have more options.

As I've mentioned before, one of Lloyd's greatest qualities is his ability to sacrifise his own game for the greater good. If he recognises Johns/Lucas have a physical advantage over their opponent he'll push up the ground to exploit that.

Wouldn't at all suprise me to see Lloyd playing infront of Johns next season.

Yeah, I remember him saying last year he wanted to play more CHF and do get involved like the Tredrea's and Reiwoldts.

But only if Lovett and Johns are kicking enough goals, he's too valuable there otherwise

[koc#41]

[quote=DaSawx]Good post, although I'm not sure taking Lucas away from CHF is the best thing, he's 50-60 goals a year are too important.

quote]

although in the past i may have agreed with you on this, but i think Johns is a great prospect for the club and could fill the spot of Lucas at CHF, potentially johns could kick 40-60 goals next year, if we are up and running.

[Lance Uppercut]

Ideally: Lloyd at CHF where he can use his run and nous, and Johns at FF, steaming out of the goal square, splitting packs and hurting opposition defenders

[DaSawx]

although in the past i may have agreed with you on this, but i think Johns is a great prospect for the club and could fill the spot of Lucas at CHF, potentially johns could kick 40-60 goals next year, if we are up and running.

It's possible, he certainly has the potential. Just have to hope he has a good run with injuries.

I suppose a question could be asked, if Johns kicked Lucas' score on the weeknd and Lucas played on Reiwoldt would we have won? quite possibly.

A lot depends on if Johns could stay fit for 22 games, can handle CHF/FF every week and live up to his potential and stay consistent, if yes then we could play Lucas at CHB and fill that position untill we blood an Andrew or a Scott Gumbleton or a Lachlen Hansen.

Would love to be able to free Bradley and McPhee to a HBF/wing/midfield role and keep them there. The best teams have a role for every single player that they can play most weeks unless a change is needed.

[go_the_bombers]

I rather Lucas up forward than down back

[Broady Poker Tour]

Although I am a big fan of Scott Lucas, it annoys me how he lacks the vision and skill to be able to assist his team-mates or to dish off a quick handball to a player running past. On the weekend in the last 10 mintues of the game with St. Kilda leading, McPhee was running for a loose ball in the forward 50 without anyone within 20 metres of him. Lucas was also running to that same ball but with Max Hughton right behind him. If he had shepparded and shielded the ball from Max, and allowed Mcphee to gather the loose ball- who knows? Instead the Saints cleared and the rest is history. The number of times he has just totally disregarded his team-mates in better positions has started to annoy me. I'd like to know what his hand-ball stats are compared to other CHF in the competition.

His best season was at CHB, he won a best an fairest there because he had to find a team-mate because he was more than 100 metres from goal. I'd either like to see him there, or possibly traded to somewhere like Geelong for a first round draft pick and a mid-fielder (like Kelly, or Bartel).

If no trade- it would be Johns (FF), Lloyd (CHF), Hille, Lucas (CHB) until Gumbleton is able to take over, and Fletcher (FB). Lloyd was starting to look really good when he was moving further out of the goal-square and John's would be better with Lloyd around

[Daytripper]

If no trade- it would be Johns (FF), Lloyd (CHF), Hille, Lucas (CHB) until Gumbleton is able to take over, and Fletcher (FB). Lloyd was starting to look really good when he was moving further out of the goal-square and John's would be better with Lloyd around

This is what I don't like about going for another KPP in the draft.

With a realistic line up like the one above it will mean we are going to have players of the calibre of Gumbleton (for example), Laycock and Ryder sitting on the pine or playing for Bendigo. Our second tier of Lee and Lucy will never get a game and will eventually get delisted. Thats just wasteful drafting !

Not to mention there's no spots for Kepler or McPhee.

We have got an awful number of KPP types already.
Don't need any more for the moment.

[DaSawx]

This is what I don't like about going for another KPP in the draft.

With a realistic line up like the one above it will mean we are going to have players of the calibre of Gumbleton (for example), Laycock and Ryder sitting on the pine or playing for Bendigo. Our second tier of Lee and Lucy will never get a game and will eventually get delisted. Thats just wasteful drafting !

Not to mention there's no spots for Kepler or McPhee.

We have got an awful number of KPP types already.
Don't need any more for the moment.

Word within the club is they think Gumbleton may be too good to refuse, a marking moster ala Jon Brown.

Ryder, Lee and Lucy are still some time off being ready. Lee and Lucy may get chances when they are ready or may end up being depth players, who knows, they were late picks so there are no gaurentees.

There are definately spots for McPhee and Bradley, either in midfield/wing or taking the 3rd tall in defense, we do need 6 defenders a game remember.

[Daytripper]

Word within the club is they think Gumbleton may be too good to refuse, a marking moster ala Jon Brown.

Ryder, Lee and Lucy are still some time off being ready. Lee and Lucy may get chances when they are ready or may end up being depth players, who knows, they were late picks so there are no gaurentees.

There are definately spots for McPhee and Bradley, either in midfield/wing or taking the 3rd tall in defense, we do need 6 defenders a game remember.

What about Laycock ?

We really have to have a rethink about the way we draft players. Its not a big mans game anymore yet the club still has this theory that you take the best available tall man.

If Bradley can't play CHB then we have basically wasted a top 6 pick and three years of development on him.

I know its all hindsight but we need to be a bit more cleverer in the way we draft.

[Darealrath]

Ideally: Lloyd at CHF where he can use his run and nous, and Johns at FF, steaming out of the goal square, splitting packs and hurting opposition defenders

Sounds good. I'd like them to keep swapping between the two positions though. Lloyd is too deadly to be getting most of his footy 70m out, while Johns imo has more of a natural physical presence than Lloyd and could be the better option at CHF at times.

I'd keep Lucas forward. Keeps getting the job done and with the hopeful continued emergence of Johns and the return of Lloyd he'd do very nicely on the oppositions probable 3rd defender (as Johns plays closer to goal he'd prolly get one of the better 2). Would need crumbers though because those 3 can struggle when they don't mark it.

Fletcher FB obviously.

CHB still the worry. Hopefully Lee or Bradley can put their stamp on it. Solly isn't a bad option. I've been pretty happy with his defensive work lately, just wish he was a bit taller. I don't like McPhee playing on a gun forward.

[Philzsay]

I would have all three of Lloyd, Johns and Lucas in the forward line.

I would alternate between Lloyd and Johns starting out of square. The player not in the square would start at centre bounces on the 50m arc.

Then I would have Lucas playing as the leading CHF. He would start at bounces on the 50m arc but he would essentialy run deep down the ground providing the long lead and mark from when we kick the ball out of the backline.

So in a couple of different types of the play the following could happen:

Centre Bounce: Lucas and Lloyd on the 50m arc, Johns in the square. They are positioned in a triangle like formation. A hurried kick out of the square and you would have either Lloyd or Lucas contesting the mark. Or a break from the centre square and the player can kick to Johns on the lead. (so swap Johns and Lloyds positions at different centre bounces as well).

Kick from Full Back or defensive 50: Lucas leads deep and marks say 60/70 metres from defensive goal. He kicks to Lloyd who has lead from the 50m arc to take the mark near the centre of the ground. He kicks (or handballs to a running player who then kicks) to Johns who marks the ball about 40m from goal after having lead from the square. Goal.

The best thing about playing all 3 as forwards is that it would give us some structure. Also I think it would also help with our decision making skills, with the players always knowing that they can kick it long to one of Lucas, Lloyd or Johns if they cant find an immediate short pass.

As for the issue of being too tall up forward if a resting ruckman was to push forward I don't think it would be too much of an issue. Firstly it is likely that often one of the 3 of Lloyd, Lucas or Johns could be resting on the bench due to injury, resting or poor form or they could have been pushed down back. Secondly I doubt all 3 will play all 22 games (and 3 finals :D ).
And finally in the rare instance where all 4 would be forward it will stretch the opposition as long as it wasn't a wet day.

As for the Key backman, Fletch at Full back most would agree. Then CHB I would have Lee. You would also have McPhee, Bradley and Solomon who would all help out at times. It depends on how the opposition line up, but hopefully those 5 players should be able to handle most situations without having to take Lucas from a forward leading role.

[Daytripper]

I would have all three of Lloyd, Johns and Lucas in the forward line.

I would alternate between Lloyd and Johns starting out of square. The player not in the square would start at centre bounces on the 50m arc.

Then I would have Lucas playing as the leading CHF. He would start at bounces on the 50m arc but he would essentialy run deep down the ground providing the long lead and mark from when we kick the ball out of the backline.

So in a couple of different types of the play the following could happen:

Centre Bounce: Lucas and Lloyd on the 50m arc, Johns in the square. They are positioned in a triangle like formation. A hurried kick out of the square and you would have either Lloyd or Lucas contesting the mark. Or a break from the centre square and the player can kick to Johns on the lead. (so swap Johns and Lloyds positions at different centre bounces as well).

Kick from Full Back or defensive 50: Lucas leads deep and marks say 60/70 metres from defensive goal. He kicks to Lloyd who has lead from the 50m arc to take the mark near the centre of the ground. He kicks (or handballs to a running player who then kicks) to Johns who marks the ball about 40m from goal after having lead from the square. Goal.

The best thing about playing all 3 as forwards is that it would give us some structure. Also I think it would also help with our decision making skills, with the players always knowing that they can kick it long to one of Lucas, Lloyd or Johns if they cant find an immediate short pass.

As for the issue of being too tall up forward if a resting ruckman was to push forward I don't think it would be too much of an issue. Firstly it is likely that often one of the 3 of Lloyd, Lucas or Johns could be resting on the bench due to injury, resting or poor form or they could have been pushed down back. Secondly I doubt all 3 will play all 22 games (and 3 finals :D ).
And finally in the rare instance where all 4 would be forward it will stretch the opposition as long as it wasn't a wet day.

As for the Key backman, Fletch at Full back most would agree. Then CHB I would have Lee. You would also have McPhee, Bradley and Solomon who would all help out at times. It depends on how the opposition line up, but hopefully those 5 players should be able to handle most situations without having to take Lucas from a forward leading role.

A back 6 comprising Fletcher, Lee, McPhee, Bradley, Solomon and one of Welsh/McVeigh/Lovett-Murray is iceberg slow.
Where is the run ?
Who breaks the lines ?

And you've got Lucas running down to help out. That won't be helping at all.

How on earth would they match up on a Bulldog forward line comprising Murphy, Johnson, Giansiracusa, Eagleton, Darcy.

We've got a 2006 squad built for football in the 1980s unfortunately.

[Audemars Piguet]

This is what I don't like about going for another KPP in the draft.

With a realistic line up like the one above it will mean we are going to have players of the calibre of Gumbleton (for example), Laycock and Ryder sitting on the pine or playing for Bendigo. Our second tier of Lee and Lucy will never get a game and will eventually get delisted. Thats just wasteful drafting !

Not to mention there's no spots for Kepler or McPhee.

We have got an awful number of KPP types already.
Don't need any more for the moment.

I agree that taking Gumbleton would be a mistake. We are already top-heavy in the forward line with Lloyd, Lucas, Johns, aswell as Laycock, Ryder and Hille.

We need a versitile key backman like Hansen or Thorpe. That would give us a nice spread of genuine key backs and forwards, versitile KPPs and rucks.

2007 (If we take Hansen/Thorpe)

Key Forwards : Lloyd, Lucas, Johns, Hille, Laycock, Ryder.

Key Backs : Fletcher, Lee, Bradley, Hansen/Thorpe.


2007 (If we take Gumbleton)

Key Forwards : Lloyd, Lucas, Johns, Hille, Laycock, Ryder, Gumbleton.

Key Backs : Fletcher, Lee, Bradley.

[Philzsay]

A back 6 comprising Fletcher, Lee, McPhee, Bradley, Solomon and one of Welsh/McVeigh/Lovett-Murray is iceberg slow.
Where is the run ?
Who breaks the lines ?

And you've got Lucas running down to help out. That won't be helping at all.

How on earth would they match up on a Bulldog forward line comprising Murphy, Johnson, Giansiracusa, Eagleton, Darcy.

We've got a 2006 squad built for football in the 1980s unfortunately.

I didn't mean to have all 5 of those players in the backline at the same time. The title of this thread is "key position set up" so I only talked about the key position players. You would only have 2 or 3 of them as your key position players at any one time. Was merely suggesting that you would select the keys backs from those players.
And obviously for the Bulldogs you would have a completly different set up.

As for Lucas I have always thought of him to be a hard working player. He plays best when he keeps running around and presenting himself as a target. That is what I want him to do, present himself as a target. And with Lloyd and Johns in the forward line, he should be able to work his way down the ground when need be.

[Broady Poker Tour]

I agree that taking Gumbleton would be a mistake. We are already top-heavy in the forward line with Lloyd, Lucas, Johns, aswell as Laycock, Ryder and Hille.

We need a versitile key backman like Hansen or Thorpe. That would give us a nice spread of genuine key backs and forwards, versitile KPPs and rucks.

2007

Key Forwards : Lloyd, Lucas, Johns, Hille, Laycock, Ryder.

Key Backs : Fletcher, Lee, Bradley, Hansen/Thorpe.


I believe Gumbleton is more a CHB than a CHF but is versatile enough to play both. who knows, after we beat the Blues and avoid the spoon, we might end up with Gibbs instead. Assuming the Blues take a KPP

Either way, i think we Essendon supporters can be guilty of over-rating our own. I don't think Solly, Bradley or McPhee will ever be KPP's. Laycock is a ruckman not a forward, and hopefully Ryder will develop into an Adam Goodes type.
I think Lee might be the man who can fill Fletcher's boots when he retires in 2008.

[Merv]

I believe Gumbleton is more a CHB than a CHF but is versatile enough to play both. who knows, after we beat the Blues and avoid the spoon, we might end up with Gibbs instead. Assuming the Blues take a KPP

Either way, i think we Essendon supporters can be guilty of over-rating our own. I don't think Solly, Bradley or McPhee will ever be KPP's. Laycock is a ruckman not a forward, and hopefully Ryder will develop into an Adam Goodes type.
I think Lee might be the man who can fill Fletcher's boots when he retires in 2008.

According to all reports i have read Gumbleton is more of a CHF than a CHB.I havent seen him so am only going on all the reports i have read.

I think Laycock will be a very good Ruckman/Forward, just as Hille is.
They are both capable of resting in the forward line and kick 2-4 goals a game.

From what i have seen of him i don't believe Ryder is as mobile or as fast as Goodes,still early of course

[Daytripper]

I believe Gumbleton is more a CHB than a CHF but is versatile enough to play both. who knows, after we beat the Blues and avoid the spoon, we might end up with Gibbs instead. Assuming the Blues take a KPP

Either way, i think we Essendon supporters can be guilty of over-rating our own. I don't think Solly, Bradley or McPhee will ever be KPP's. Laycock is a ruckman not a forward, and hopefully Ryder will develop into an Adam Goodes type.
I think Lee might be the man who can fill Fletcher's boots when he retires in 2008.
Don't get me wrong I like Ryder but he was superfolous to our requirements when we were drafting in 2005 for all the reasons mentioned above.

We already have 3 ruckmen in Hille, Laycock and Cartledge
Our key forwards would have been Lloyd, Lucas, Johns
Our key backs were Fletcher, Bradley, Lee, Lucy

Thats a third of our list over 6'3

Floaters between back and forward are McPhee, Solomon.
Laycock could play forward, Bradley could go into the ruck if needs be.

Now we have an over abundance of talls and hit a draft with supposedly the greatest potential of key position players since its inception and conversely entering a period where the great teams (Adelaide, West Coast, Bulldogs, Melbourne) are dominated by runners.
Wallace saw the writing on the board and has been basically drafting pure running players for the past two seasons.

There's nothing we can do about what happened in the past but we can rectify the future.

[Longy413]

What if Bradley gets traded West for a midfielder?

Would that make the choice to draft Gumbleton easier?

[Daytripper]

What if Bradley gets traded West for a midfielder?

Would that make the choice to draft Gumbleton easier?

Short answer - yes

[Broady Poker Tour]

What if Bradley gets traded West for a midfielder?

Would that make the choice to draft Gumbleton easier?

The only midfielder I want from out west is Judd. What is the likelihood of a mega trade of Bradley, Ryder and draft pick for Judd? It wouldn't hurt us to ask would it?

[Longy413]

The only midfielder I want from out west is Judd. What is the likelihood of a mega trade of Bradley, Ryder and draft pick for Judd? It wouldn't hurt us to ask would it?

Zero.

And there are plenty of midfielders out West that would compliment our side.
Not just at West Coast.

[Philzsay]

What if Bradley gets traded West for a midfielder?

Would that make the choice to draft Gumbleton easier?

Is that pure speculation on your behalf Longy? Or have you heard this mentioned around the traps?

[Longy413]

Is that pure speculation on your behalf Longy? Or have you heard this mentioned around the traps?

100% pure speculation.

[Crave]

Id love us to go for another down back, Lucas is much more damaging up front, Lloyd as CHF, Johns from the goal square (if he can continue improving). Bradley? Well, still unsure if his star is on the rise, but no doubt he would be an asset if his stocks rise...those long limbs are so valuable

[Daytripper]

What if Bradley gets traded West for a midfielder?

Would that make the choice to draft Gumbleton easier?

I'll just expand on this Longy.

Yes, I would be willing to do this but there are a few drawbacks.

1. Kepler is probably the most popular player within the club.
2. I believe he will still be a good player for us in time.
3, I doubt if Freo will trade with us as they are slowish. The only player I would want from them in a straight swap is Crowley. Other alternatives are Dunn plus 2nd/3rd round draft pick or Peake plus 2nd/3rd round draft pick. All are unlikely.
4. This leaves West Coast. Selwood is a possibility. Selwood plus 2nd round for Bradley ? Hurn for Bradley straight swap. Again unlikely.
5. Sampi plus 2nd round for Bradley and 3rd round - NOW, THERE'S A TRADE !!!!!

And Gumbleton would want to be worth it.

[blumfieldisback]

couldnt trade bradley????? give him another 3 years before he shows his maturity, having said that people were saying the same thing about bolton and henneman in 2001 and now there worth nothing.

As i said before trade our second or third pick for james kelly or ritschechelli and then gumbleton with pick 1, we can then get another player in the PSD. Richmond forced fremantle to trade simmonds so they could get something in return, richmond then got Trent Nobhead in the PSD lets hope we get something better.

we have lovett we dont need sampi who cant play midfield, we also have cole who also battle weight issues

[Daytripper]

we have lovett we dont need sampi who cant play midfield, we also have cole who also battle weight issues

Hard to get a gig at West Coast playing mid-field.

I'd play him forward with Lovett off the half back line.
Lovett would be our line breaker off half back in the mould of Gilbee, Nikovski, McLeod.

We are desperate for this type of player.

[Crave]

We're yet to really see Lucy. He certainly has the measurements of a sturdy half back flanker/KP player according to the team lists.

[ant555]

Don't think Courtney's got the engine to play CHF.
They do a lot of running these days - just look at the amount of ground Lucas covers in a game. He's down at the HB line quite often.

Johns looks a pure full forward to me.
I'd even give him a shot at full back. He's got speed, strength and a decent footy brain.

Anything other than those two positions would be doubtful at this stage in his development unless he does a heap of aerobic work over the next three summers.


We see different things lol I agree at the moment Courtney hasnt got the fitness levels to play CHF full time but in saying that it is mainly due to only ever having one pre season and a number of injuries this year.
Take out the Freo game and he has played his best footy up the ground. Was the same with Bendigo last year , he seemed more comfortable and read the game much better from CHF.

[blumfieldisback]

Hard to get a gig at West Coast playing mid-field.

I'd play him forward with Lovett off the half back line.
Lovett would be our line breaker off half back in the mould of Gilbee, Nikovski, McLeod.

We are desperate for this type of player.


What another aboriginal who has continual fitness problems or personal issues, i doubt it. Id rather re-draft cupido then have sampi.

id would think a player that can play inside yet accelerate with pace and good foot skills is something we desperately need, or another back up forward if lloyd or lucas go down or someone to help fletcher out.

[Daytripper]

What another aboriginal who has continual fitness problems or personal issues, i doubt it. Id rather re-draft cupido then have sampi.

Race should have nothing to do with it.

id would think a player that can play inside yet accelerate with pace and good foot skills is something we desperately need, or another back up forward if lloyd or lucas go down or someone to help fletcher out.

Key forward back ups : Johns, Laycock, Ryder
Key back back ups : Lee, Bradley, Lucy

We've got heaps of them. Plus we are entering an era where KPP are no longer as important as they once were.

Simple question.
Who is the rebounding defender at our club ?
A player who can break lines and kick the occasional goal.

Answer : Zero. Sheedy is that desperate we are forced to use Welsh in that role and his foot skills aren't the greatest.

[Longy413]

NLM?

Finding a key back (even if it's from within the current list) would also release McPhee. He breaks lines, he even did it on Saturday whilst playing on Riewoldt.

Nash maybe.

I'd rather play Dyson at half-back than Lovett.

[douggie the don]

IMO, Solomon and McPhee are good candidates to take up more KP responsibility in the next few years.
Solomon's midfield experiment didn't work and he definately has the size to match it. Might be a good idea to settle him down and give him a shut down roll in the backline.
McPhee ideally will move into the midfield, however if he's having cronic OP problems relating to the extra workload of a midfielder, we may look to settle him down back too. If he's fit, in form and able to play a midfield/utility role then that's probably his best spot.
Fletcher, Bradley, Lucas, Lee, Solomon, Mcphee and Lucy is a pretty decent group of talls to play in defence depending on match-ups.
For this reason i think it'd be crazy to draft a Hansen type with #1 pick to slot into CHB when our midfield is crying out for a boost.

[Bomber4life]

Lets face it, with Lucy, Laycock, Johns, Lee and Bradley there's no way the club is going to keep them all. And dont forget Henneman.

Essendon had a big drive a few years ago when it looked like we had no big men and Hille wasnt progressing as quick as we'd hoped. Why do you think we took back Barnes and Salmon?

To me Johns, Lee and Bradley are the ones with the most promise. Haven't seem much of lucy so can't really comment. I have doubts that Laycock will ever make it. I know that Henneman will NEVER make it (Delist him now, please!).

The back line should be. Fletcher FB, McPhee CHB, rest of the backline should be Lee, Lovett-Murray, Soloman, Welsh with bolton coming off the bench to roatate.

Bradley and McVeigh on the wings to run and drive the ball forward.

As for the forward line. You gotta keep Lloyd at FF, he is the most accurate kick in the league. Lucas CHF, Johns Forward Pocket, with Johnson and Lovett rotating through to the centreline and other pocket as crumbers. It would make the forward line pretty potent.

[Daytripper]

NLM?

Finding a key back (even if it's from within the current list) would also release McPhee. He breaks lines, he even did it on Saturday whilst playing on Riewoldt.

Nash maybe.

I'd rather play Dyson at half-back than Lovett.

I've been an advocate of Dyson playing off half back but he just doesn't find the ball often enough. I reckon that might be his spot though.

NLM goes sideways too often and his kicks whilst penetrating aren't that accurate. Hence why he goes sideways.

I don't know why but the idea of Lovett playing there appeals to me. Who would have though a guy like McLeod would be so successful as a half back flanker ?

You don't even have to be that defensive minded for that particular role.

[marcuz]

And Gumbleton would want to be worth it.

We are talking about a guy with the potential to not only dominate CHF physically but also kick bags of goals. We have nobody on our list with that potential. Scotty has about three years left and by that time Gumbleton would have done his apprenticeship.

The fact is this years draft is that important that we must draft the best available talent. We will be able to draft midfielders with plenty of talent with our second and third picks. Unfortunatley the elite of the tall players will be gone by then so we need to get in first and grab ourselves one. Gibbs didnt impress me as much as i thought he would and although hes bottom age i dont see him talking the AFL by storm like a Judd, Deledio, Griffen etc.

Half back can be filled by anybody, Nash, Dyson, NLM are all options. even Dempsey after another pre-season and a few more kilos could play back there if needed.

Full-Back is a power position, im sure we can find a kid who has slipped under the radar yet starred at a state screening to groom for that role. You just dont draft full backs straight out of junior footy, you need to make one. Blake Caracella and Tyson stenglein were both junior full backs and now wouldnt know where the position is.

[Longy413]

Who would have though a guy like McLeod would be so successful as a half back flanker ?

Gary Ayres ;)

McVeigh (although playing mostly midfield), McPhee and NLM are all top 10 (club) in Inside 50's this year.

McPhee (7th) and NLM (3rd) are also top 10 in rebound 50's.
So we are getting a fair bit of drive from half back.

NLM leads the club in bounces, McPhee and Welsh also top 10.

We also lead the comp in scoring shots from Kick-ins.

A lot of the time we see Welsh, McPhee, NLM take off and stop because they have nothing to kick to. Perhaps it's just as simple has having some targets up forward giving our half-back line more incentive to run and create.

[DaSawx]

What are the odds of Carlton drafting Gumbleton at #1 if we avoid the spoon?

The more and more I hear about Gumbleton the more I hear Jon Brown

[marcuz]

Gary Ayres ;)

McVeigh (although playing mostly midfield), McPhee and NLM are all top 10 (club) in Inside 50's this year.

McPhee (7th) and NLM (3rd) are also top 10 in rebound 50's.
So we are getting a fair bit of drive from half back.

NLM leads the club in bounces, McPhee and Welsh also top 10.

We also lead the comp in scoring shots from Kick-ins.

A lot of the time we see Welsh, McPhee, NLM take off and stop because they have nothing to kick to. Perhaps it's just as simple has having some targets up forward giving our half-back line more incentive to run and create.

Sheeds' gameplan doesnt lend itself to a running and bouncing game. He likes his players to keep possesion by foot. I'd like us to play with a little more daring, we as a rule are too static when trying to come forward.

[marcuz]

What are the odds of Carlton drafting Gumbleton at #1 if we avoid the spoon?

The more and more I hear about Gumbleton the more I hear Jon Brown

Its hard to say as they drafted Kennedy last year with the thought in mind of playing him at CHF. I would have thought that gibbs would be their preferred option, then again i could be wrong.

[Longy413]

What are the odds of Carlton drafting Gumbleton at #1 if we avoid the spoon?

The more and more I hear about Gumbleton the more I hear Jon Brown

I really think they will take Hansen.

I can see Gibbs slipping the pick 3. Giving Hawthorn another midfielder with average leg-speed to add to the collection.

[Longy413]

Sheeds' gameplan doesnt lend itself to a running and bouncing game. He likes his players to keep possesion by foot. I'd like us to play with a little more daring, we as a rule are too static when trying to come forward.

We actually have close to 400 bounces less this season that the Dogs.
They average 26 more per game.

[DaSawx]

Gary Ayres ;)

really? I thought he was the root of all our problems :p

McVeigh (although playing mostly midfield), McPhee and NLM are all top 10 (club) in Inside 50's this year.

McPhee (7th) and NLM (3rd) are also top 10 in rebound 50's.
So we are getting a fair bit of drive from half back.

NLM leads the club in bounces, McPhee and Welsh also top 10.

We also lead the comp in scoring shots from Kick-ins.

A lot of the time we see Welsh, McPhee, NLM take off and stop because they have nothing to kick to. Perhaps it's just as simple has having some targets up forward giving our half-back line more incentive to run and create.

It is important to get McVeigh, McPhee along with Camporeale as forward as possible.

They have good disposals, but we are like 6th for inside 50's and really do waste a lot of opportunities.

A forward line of Lloyd, Johns, Lucas, Gumbleton, Lovett, Hird, however they want to work it would be exciting, we just need someone to hold down CHB.

[Longy413]

really? I thought he was the root of all our problems :p

From memory the whole Ayres/McLeod fallout begin because McLeod was unhappy with Ayres' coaching style, which included playing McLeod at half-back.

[marcuz]

We actually have close to 400 bounces less this season that the Dogs.
They average 26 more per game.

Are they genuine bounces or "Brett Peake" bounces?

[Longy413]

Are they genuine bounces or "Brett Peake" bounces?

Haha. Good point.

I guess they all count, but there are a lot of blokes that love to take two steps and bounce.

Archer is a huge culprit.

[DaSawx]

I really think they will take Hansen.

I can see Gibbs slipping the pick 3. Giving Hawthorn another midfielder with average leg-speed to add to the collection.

They may be the future WCE, good midfielders, no forward line.

Just thought Kernahan was keen on his fellow South Australian, not sure how much input he has.

As long as all the signs point to us draft another Scotty, I'll be happy, make it happen fellas.

[Merv]

What are the odds of Carlton drafting Gumbleton at #1 if we avoid the spoon?

The more and more I hear about Gumbleton the more I hear Jon Brown

I think you will find they will draft either Gumbleton or Hansen.Probably Gumbleton

[Daytripper]

A forward line of Lloyd, Johns, Lucas, Gumbleton, Lovett, Hird, however they want to work it would be exciting, we just need someone to hold down CHB.

That forward set up sounds good but we'd get belted at the kick ins with the rule as it presently stands.
Just kick it to the opposite flank that Lovett is on and take on the others. Before you know it the ball would be inside the opponents 50.

[Crave]

If Laycock and Ryder can become a key ruck duo, we'll look so much more damaging up front with Hille being a marking forward. He's been on our list for a heck of a long time so Im hoping he still has some improvement in him....hes yet to take the next step up.
Not many clubs now that dont have a dominant ruckman on their list.

[zafa23]

If Laycock and Ryder can become a key ruck duo, we'll look so much more damaging up front with Hille being a marking forward. He's been on our list for a heck of a long time so Im hoping he still has some improvement in him....hes yet to take the next step up.
Not many clubs now that dont have a dominant ruckman on their list.If you include play around the ground, I'd say Hille is in the top 5-6 ruckmen in the AFL at the moment. Its not that surprising that the last two weeks where Hille has been returned to the no. 1 ruck position that we have killed the opposition in clearances. I'm not giving him all the credit for the improvement in clearances but he certainly does contribute to them.

[Crave]

If you include play around the ground, I'd say Hille is in the top 5-6 ruckmen in the AFL at the moment. Its not that surprising that the last two weeks where Hille has been returned to the no. 1 ruck position that we have killed the opposition in clearances. I'm not giving him all the credit for the improvement in clearances but he certainly does contribute to them.

Id have Hille middle of the comp right now with the likes of Cox, Simmonds, Charman, Lade, Everitt, White, Fraser and lets not forget Darcy also if he was right....I regard those 7 ruckmen in front of Hille at the minute.

[Longy413]

Not sure Fraser is ahead of Hille and if he is the gap is marginal.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=105&pid1=20092&tid2=104&pid2=20072

Big fella's 100th game on Saturday.

[Crave]

Not sure Fraser is ahead of Hille and if he is the gap is marginal.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=105&pid1=20092&tid2=104&pid2=20072

Big fella's 100th game on Saturday.

Yeah, you're right.... bit of a line call there. I didnt really have them in any particular order though. to nominate the best ruckman this season, I couldnt go past Lade (only after Cox injured his foot)
However, if Laycock n Ryder become accomplished, I dare say we'll have extremely potent tall timber at our disposal and sneak under everyone's radar while the other aforementioned continue to dominate the stats sheets.

[Crave]

Actually, he's right up there with Everitt also...checking the comparisons.

Nice tool this site is, Longy :thumbsu:

[Merv]

Ideally in the sorter term if Laycock and Hill can rest in a pocket they are both capable of easily kicking 2-4 goals between them which would also give opposition coaches a head ache as combined with Lloyd, Johns and Lucas would be a very tall backline.

As Ryder is ready, lets say 3 years, we may look at trading one or play then in pocket,ruck and bench and rotate them all.

[Stargazer]

I know moving Lucas away from CHF isn't the ideal option. But if Johns turned out to be good enough to kick 30-35 goals from CHF compared to Lucas' 50 i think that whilst we may be losing around 1 goal a game up foward we would probably be saving 2-3 down back. Could also eliminate the potential problem of having lloyd and Johns, both leading left footers, competing with each other in the 50.
OK, but you're judging Johns on the strength of one game. Lucas has been a consistent contributor for years. Also, Johns doesn't need the constant wear and tear of playing in the toughest position n the field.
Laycock would be better - he has the size that would make him a formidable chf.
With Lloyd at FF, Laycock chf, Lucas on a flank, Johns on a flank or in a pocket, and Watson, Lovett and Monfries rotating from the midfield with MJ as well if needed, we'd have a pretty potent forward line again.

[Big John]

LLoyd has to play at FF. He's the best FF in the land by a fair way and is no good anywhere else.

I've been disapointed with Keppler and he hasn't come on as i hoped so i think putting Lucas back to CHB wouldnt be a bad idea. We might not have great run from defence, but Lucas and Fletch can both kick it long and kicking the footy is a lot quicker than running it. Mcphee should also go back as a back flanker where he was at his best.

It is still big guys that win footy matches and more importantly finals footy matches, so if there's future superstars in the draft get them while we can ( i hope we're not planning to stay down for to long) and if we end up with to many of them we can trade some of the duds for midfielders.

[Merv]

LLoyd has to play at FF. He's the best FF in the land by a fair way and is no good anywhere else.

I've been disapointed with Keppler and he hasn't come on as i hoped so i think putting Lucas back to CHB wouldnt be a bad idea. We might not have great run from defence, but Lucas and Fletch can both kick it long and kicking the footy is a lot quicker than running it. Mcphee should also go back as a back flanker where he was at his best.

It is still big guys that win footy matches and more importantly finals footy matches, so if there's future superstars in the draft get them while we can ( i hope we're not planning to stay down for to long) and if we end up with to many of them we can trade some of the duds for midfielders.

I also prefer Lloyd at FF but to say he is no good anywhere else is wrong.
He would rack up many possesions playing most other positions and has done so playing CHF many times.
IMO he is best bet at FF with Johns next to him.