Gold Memberships and Grand Final Tickets - a Better Way?

[arrowman]

Graham Cornes raised this subject on 5AA a few weeks ago and it got me thinking...

Disclaimer #1:To any journalists who may be reading this: I am not assuming the Crows will make the GF this year. This is a general discussion, not about 2006 :)

Disclaimer #2:I am not a Gold Member. I could have been, but I have chosen not to be. I can deal with the consequences of that and I accept the current system. The opinions expressed in this thread are not based on self-interest :)

My view:

Gold Members buy that class of membership for one reason, and one reason only - (potential) GF tickets. It is not credible to claim that Gold Members are some sort of special class of supporters who are giving the Club more than others out of the goodness of their hearts. And I’m sure the Gold Members here on BigFooty would agree with that.

So, is it fair and equitable for the Club to create a class of membership based on ability to pay, for the sole purpose of granting that membership access to GF tickets - would it not be fairer to open up access to GF tickets to all members on an equal footing?

There are two possible ways of doing this:

1. Electronic queue (as was done for the “excess” GF tickets last year).

This worked well, in my opinion, but with one major problem - the fact that members needed to basically sit around pressing the Redial button on their (office!) phone for about 45 minutes before getting through. Not a great thing to have to do on a Monday morning, especially if you’re at work.

And of course it would be much worse if you add another 10,000 (?) people (Gold Members) to the mix.

The only way to get an electronic queue to work reasonably, would be to invest significant $ in a high capacity system that could deal in a reasonable timeframe with the number of calls expected. To do otherwise would be to treat the members with something less than respect, and to place those who have to make the call from work at a potential disadvantage.

Anyone care to lay odds on BASS providing such a service at anything like a reasonable cost?

2. Lottery. Members register (“buy a ticket”) prior to the GF, paying something like $20 for the privilege (possibly with, say, $10 refundable if the Crows don’t actually make the GF).

This would have to start well before the GF, possibly even before the finals actually start, if it is to work smoothly - especially if there is a need for multiple draws as described below:

The major problem with a lottery is working out how you deal with groups of people who have multiple memberships between them. If a family, for example, has 4 season tickets, they would probably want 4 GF tickets. But you can’t give them just one “4 ticket” entry in the lottery because that would put them (individually) at a disadvantage compared to a person who, say, has 1 or 2 tickets.

On the other hand, what if you give the family 4x entries, and only 1 or 2 of them “win”? What if the family says “no thanks, it’s 4 tickets or nothing”? Well, I’d say “OK then, return the 2 tickets and we’ll draw again to give them to someone else”. Which is fair - they had their choice and they took it.

But that means you have to conduct another draw to dish out these “unwanted” tickets - and possibly repeat the process.

Could be difficult to work with, unless (and even if) you start the lottery process well in advance of the GF and possibly a couple of weeks before the finals even start.

But on balance, I think the lottery could be made to work, and it would be fairer than placing those who can afford to “bet” on a GF ticket with a Gold Membership in a privileged class over other members.

Thoughts?

[Mad Dog]

Arrowman - I enjoyed your disclaimers - a very good idea these days....:D

So I'll throw 1 in - I'm a Gold Member - and have been since the membership structure was created.


My view:
Gold Members buy that class of membership for one reason, and one reason only - (potential) GF tickets.
I actually think I look quite fetching in my Gold Member sun visor....:( ....and I use my Gold Member bag whenever we go camping to store all the tent ropes and pegs.....:)


....several good points from Arrowman

When it comes down to it - Football clubs have a business to run - and where there is a scarce commodity in high demand (GF tickets) - there will always be a premium that market participants are willing to pay ($83 for Gold Membership). Without the right to first dibs at Finals tickets - the Gold Members will not pay their $83, and the club will drop $830,000 in cash annually.....won't happen.

Ultimately as a gold member I am happy with the privalleges that my $83 buys me during the year - I don't consider myself elitist - as there are several other things that many others may have that I don't consider important.....Pay TV for instance........we all just vote with our dollars in the market according to our own Utility functions.

Those who choose not to pay for Gold Membership - good on you
Those who choose to pay for Gold Membership - good on you too....:)

I am entirely happy with the structure the club has in place - in my view any other method of allocating tickets across the broader membership base is problematic logistically as you have pointed out...........and also contrary to normal market forces given the premium some are willing to pay for GF tickets.

:)

[Capitalist]

The simple fact is that there is only so many tickets to be allocated to the club so they needed to start a membership category that would encompase this allocation – it saves people having to come up with another way to allocate the GF tickets !.


I have been a gold member for a couple of years and last year paid the non-refundable fee for GF tickets allocation had we made the GF and I will again this year.

Also there is a demand for Gold memberships – so the majority of people have been gold members for a number of years - and I’d say forking out $87 a year for a few years isn’t a gamble most people would take especially when the crows are going ****house.

and this is going to sound really really really harsh - and it probably going to be something that I regret saying - but those who are unable to pay $87 a year for gold membership (that is if they are "betting" on the GF) probably are not going to be able to afford the trip to the GF - the accomodation, the actual tickets ($200+ each) and the plane trip/train over.

but to those people who wanted to get gold membership when the it all started looking good - unlucky !

[Capitalist]

($83 for Gold Membership)
hmm maybe I better check my credit card statement :o

[Mad Dog]

hmm maybe I better check my credit card statement :o
83 or 87 - I'm not sure....:confused: :p

[kimirocks]

Gold Members buy that class of membership for one reason, and one reason only - (potential) GF tickets. It is not credible to claim that Gold Members are some sort of special class of supporters who are giving the Club more than others out of the goodness of their hearts. And I’m sure the Gold Members here on BigFooty would agree with that. Definately agree with you on this. It's not like the "huge" $83 makes anybody this special calss you speak of. I have mine simplyfor:
1. Potential GF tickets
2. That excellent sun visor Mad Dog alluded to earlier
3. What I thought would be a shorter line to get into the Shed, turns out it saves me about 5-10 seconds by the door being 10 metres close to the Stadium. Turns out that isn't that hard to walk that distance.

It's probably a harsh way to give out the GF tickets (if we make one) but I guess we have to make it some way, there will always be somebody that won't agree with a system (sometimes just to show how non-conforming they are, pretty swanky I agree) and there will always be dissapointed people who miss out on tickets, and I guess this is the way the holy AFC wish to make it happen.

I am entirely happy with the structure the club has in place - in my view any other method of allocating tickets across the broader membership base is problematic logistically as you have pointed out...........and also contrary to normal market forces given the premium some are willing to pay for GF tickets.

My thinking too :). What is the cost that I would be willing to pay for a ticket through other means. It's probably much greater than the $83 plus $120.70 (or whatever it is) for the ticket, so to me it's worth it for the peace of mind at least. Always a fairer way, but it also is the road to more dissapointment.

[NikkiNoo]

I'm with MD - as always Arrowman you make some great points but with the supporter base that we have there will never be a true and fair system for all.

The $83 is quite a small amount to pay and I do pretty much use most of the other things that my $83 does allow me to access. I am in the same boat as what has been discussed about the 'family' option. We have 5 tickets in our family, plus we also like to attend with a group of friends so all up that's about 11 people that all pay for the Gold membership and would want to be sat near each other.

Those that are complaining about the Gold membership and it's 'unfair' allocation (and I know that's not you Arrowman) are not taking into account that it was still available for many people to join in June. So those that say they can't afford it when they renew their tickets in December / January, I have never known it to be sold out at that stage and was still available for quite a few months after that that could allow people to 'save up' for it if they really want the security.

[weed33]

Hi all,

I am a Silver Member and I have to agree with the system even though I would kill to go to a GF to see the Crows. We have a choice to buy gold membership and we chose not to. The timing of the bill for our tickets is not ideal in early January. We already pay $550 or something for our 2 tickets and another $160-170 is just too much for us at that time of year. So we make our bed and lie in it.
The only thing I hate with the difference in membership is gold members get free access to the shed and silver dont. We are members too. We dont go to the shed after games for the very reason that being members we are being made to pay for entry to our 'clubrooms'.

[Capitalist]

Hi all,

I am a Silver Member and I have to agree with the system even though I would kill to go to a GF to see the Crows. We have a choice to buy gold membership and we chose not to. The timing of the bill for our tickets is not ideal in early January. We already pay $550 or something for our 2 tickets and another $160-170 is just too much for us at that time of year. So we make our bed and lie in it.
The only thing I hate with the difference in membership is gold members get free access to the shed and silver dont. We are members too. We dont go to the shed after games for the very reason that being members we are being made to pay for entry to our 'clubrooms'.

I think you'll find all clubs are the same :thumbsu:

In effect we (gold members) are paying for entry before the season. and I can tell you the shed is well worth it

[Punchy Bassett]

None of this would be necessary if the GF tickets were split 50-50 between the two competeing clubs as it should be :)

[arrowman]

....and I use my Gold Member bag whenever we go camping to store all the tent ropes and pegsI picked up one of those bags for $5 from the bargain bin in Crowmania :D Except it doesn't say "Gold Member" on the side :)

[arrowman]

...are not taking into account that it was still available for many people to join in June. So those that say they can't afford it when they renew their tickets in December / January, I have never known it to be sold out at that stage and was still available for quite a few months after that that could allow people to 'save up' for it if they really want the security.Actually I was very surprised when I saw that this year. My recollection is that the Gold Member allocation has always sold out much earlier than that, and you'd think that this would be a year when it would certainly go quicker.

But that's a good point.

[arrowman]

but those who are unable to pay $87 a year for gold membership (that is if they are "betting" on the GF) probably are not going to be able to afford the trip to the GF - the accomodation, the actual tickets ($200+ each) and the plane trip/train over.No need to regret saying that, it's fair comment and I had thought the same myself.

On the other hand, $87 a year for 5-6 (10?) years adds up to a fair premium, but granted, of course, it's easier when taken in small doses. If someone offered you a GF ticket for $600 you probably wouldn't stop to think. Much the same as $87 a year for 5 years, eh?

Hmmmm.... I think I've just talked myself into a Gold Membership next year :D

[kirky]

For my two bobs worth - it isn't another class system issue as Graham would call it - FFS, its only $1.60 per week. I've been a gold member since 1998 and based on average cost of say $70 per year thats $560- over the past 8 years I have provided without one GF appearance. I'm more than happy to payout each year in the hope that one day we do make a GF and I have access to a GF ticket. In the perfect world, everyone would get a ticket but we don't and thats life - what about all the freeloaders in the Corporate Sector that get GF tickets. Originally, there were only 6,000 Gold members and now its 10,000 and everyone has a chance to become one if they choose to do so.

[arrowman]

When it comes down to it - Football clubs have a business to run - and where there is a scarce commodity in high demand (GF tickets) - there will always be a premium that market participants are willing to pay ($83 for Gold Membership). Without the right to first dibs at Finals tickets - the Gold Members will not pay their $83, and the club will drop $830,000 in cash annually.....won't happen.All too true, but still a pity that it has to be that way.

Still, as long as Gold Members aren't the ONLY ones who can get GF tickets then at least the rest of the plebs get a fair go.
Ultimately as a gold member I am happy with the privalleges that my $83 buys me during the year - I don't consider myself elitist - as there are several other things that many others may have that I don't consider important.....Pay TV for instance........we all just vote with our dollars in the market according to our own Utility functions.Well thank you, John Maynard Keynes :D

But I have to agree. If I said I could afford to pay $194 a year for 2x Gold Memberships, just to punt on a GF ticket (and I can), my neighbour with his satellite Foxtel connection and his Ford XR8 would probably wonder where I got the money from ;)

[The Crows Truth]

Arrowman - I enjoyed your disclaimers - a very good idea these days....:D

So I'll throw 1 in - I'm a Gold Member - and have been since the membership structure was created.


I actually think I look quite fetching in my Gold Member sun visor....:( ....and I use my Gold Member bag whenever we go camping to store all the tent ropes and pegs.....:)


When it comes down to it - Football clubs have a business to run - and where there is a scarce commodity in high demand (GF tickets) - there will always be a premium that market participants are willing to pay ($83 for Gold Membership). Without the right to first dibs at Finals tickets - the Gold Members will not pay their $83, and the club will drop $830,000 in cash annually.....won't happen.

Ultimately as a gold member I am happy with the privalleges that my $83 buys me during the year - I don't consider myself elitist - as there are several other things that many others may have that I don't consider important.....Pay TV for instance........we all just vote with our dollars in the market according to our own Utility functions.

Those who choose not to pay for Gold Membership - good on you
Those who choose to pay for Gold Membership - good on you too....:)

I am entirely happy with the structure the club has in place - in my view any other method of allocating tickets across the broader membership base is problematic logistically as you have pointed out...........and also contrary to normal market forces given the premium some are willing to pay for GF tickets.

:)

very well said old son :thumbsu:

[Crow-mo]

wouldn't a change, unfairly penalise those who have been ponying up all these years? effectively they have bought an option, with the understanding that it may or may not have value - i.e. the club makes the GF.

IF I were a gold member and had been thorugh the rough times, I'd not be too pleased with any changes that damaged my interests. certainly when perceptions might be that it benefits those fair weather few who didn't buy when there was no likelihood of us being in the grand final. wouldn't be true of everyone, but there would be a fair few who opted not to buy a gold membership because it's only value was really the GF ticket option, and chances are that it would expire worthless that year.

should they really be elevated in the standings against the other all weather supporters. After all, it's not so much money that it is truly elitist.

does anyone know if gold membership sells out, or is 'normally' available?

[Stiffy_18]

wouldn't a change, unfairly penalise those who have been ponying up all these years? effectively they have bought an option, with the understanding that it may or may not have value - i.e. the club makes the GF.

IF I were a gold member and had been thorugh the rough times, I'd not be too pleased with any changes that damaged my interests. certainly when perceptions might be that it benefits those fair weather few who didn't buy when there was no likelihood of us being in the grand final. wouldn't be true of everyone, but there would be a fair few who opted not to buy a gold membership because it's only value was really the GF ticket option, and chances are that it would expire worthless that year.

should they really be elevated in the standings against the other all weather supporters. After all, it's not so much money that it is truly elitist.

does anyone know if gold membership sells out, or is 'normally' available?
Gold membership does sell out. There is only 10000 available I think. As Nikki said, it didn't sell out until sometime in june. It is now though.

[Crow-mo]

Gold membership does sell out. There is only 10000 available I think. As Nikki said, it didn't sell out until sometime in june. It is now though.

if it didn't sell until june this year, this would strong imply that those that do not have gold membership 'rights' chose not to.

when do the renewals get sent out these days? January? February?

I don't see a problem here.

[Mad Dog]

if it didn't sell until june this year, this would strong imply that those that do not have gold membership 'rights' chose not to.

when do the renewals get sent out these days? January? February?

I don't see a problem here.
Renewals come as part of the season ticket renewal - earlyish December IIRC.

[arrowman]

wouldn't a change, unfairly penalise those who have been ponying up all these years? effectively they have bought an option, with the understanding that it may or may not have value - i.e. the club makes the GF.While I'm not strongly arguing the case I made at the start of this thread (I have been convinced in this thread that it's not such a big deal), I don't think that if the system were to change, the "interests" of current Gold Members should be a factor. Yes, they bought an option. For one year. Maybe they are planning on it being an investment over several years, but that is not a reason for the Club to not change the system, if there was a good reason to do so.

[NikkiNoo]

While I'm not strongly arguing the case I made at the start of this thread (I have been convinced in this thread that it's not such a big deal), I don't think that if the system were to change, the "interests" of current Gold Members should be a factor. Yes, they bought an option. For one year. Maybe they are planning on it being an investment over several years, but that is not a reason for the Club to not change the system, if there was a good reason to do so.

Well as a Gold member who has paid for it since 97 I would be a little miffed! ;)

I treat it in the way that you used to be a paid member of your sanfl club. People paid the extra amount knowing that they get a little bit extra on top of just going to the games and you are also supporting your club. Now I don't support them monetarily in other ways like some people do i.e. buying club merchandise each year. I want to contribute to my club in order for it to stay a force within the afl and if I get a little extra on the side, all the better.

What really gets me in all this discussion though is that if Graham Cornes wants a ballot for all members for finals tickets then this should also include the corporate sponsors and Captains Club and can you imagine the problems that would cause the club?

[Mad Dog]

Well as a Gold member who has paid for it since 97 I would be a little miffed! ;)

I treat it in the way that you used to be a paid member of your sanfl club. People paid the extra amount knowing that they get a little bit extra on top of just going to the games and you are also supporting your club. Now I don't support them monetarily in other ways like some people do i.e. buying club merchandise each year. I want to contribute to my club in order for it to stay a force within the afl and if I get a little extra on the side, all the better.

What really gets me in all this discussion though is that if Graham Cornes wants a ballot for all members for finals tickets then this should also include the corporate sponsors and Captains Club and can you imagine the problems that would cause the club?
Graham Cornes is an enigma - hell bent on equalising society..........constantly trying to pull down any regime that might favour a minority or privileged few - ie Gold Members, Pay TV subscribers, those lucky enough to secure Ashes tickets, those who can afford overseas holidays...........the list goes on...........while all the time honestly believing that his own shyte doesn't stink and thinking he is better than everyone else.

Graham Cornes lives a privileged life and has considerable influence on opinion in this town - it's time he stopped bagging others for attaining their own slice of sunshine - no matter how modest it might be.

:mad:

[kimirocks]

Graham Cornes is an enigma - hell bent on equalising society..........constantly trying to pull down any regime that might favour a minority or privileged few - ie Gold Members, Pay TV subscribers, those lucky enough to secure Ashes tickets, those who can afford overseas holidays...........the list goes on...........while all the time honestly believing that his own shyte doesn't stink and thinking he is better than everyone else.

Graham Cornes lives a privileged life and has considerable influence on opinion in this town - it's time he stopped bagging others for attaining their own slice of sunshine - no matter how modest it might be.

:mad:I reckon he has his little paws outstretched for his higher than average paycheck at the end of the week. I doubt he would want to give up his priviledges (and I hardly would blame him) for their to be an equitable society.

[arrowman]

Graham Cornes is an enigma - hell bent on equalising society..........constantly trying to pull down any regime that might favour a minority or privileged few - ie Gold Members, Pay TV subscribers, those lucky enough to secure Ashes tickets, those who can afford overseas holidays...........the list goes on...........while all the time honestly believing that his own shyte doesn't stink and thinking he is better than everyone else.

Graham Cornes lives a privileged life and has considerable influence on opinion in this town - it's time he stopped bagging others for attaining their own slice of sunshine - no matter how modest it might be.

:mad:That's a bit harsh. I think Cornesy's views on things like Gold Memberships and Pay TV, whether you agree with them or not, are genuinely held by him as part of a philosophy that the game should be accessible to all regardless of their income level.

I don't think he is trying to "pull down" Gold Members, just asking the question as to whether a football club shouldn't try to make GF tickets more accessible to all members without asking them to pay for the privilege. Even you acknowledged that a large part of the Gold Member thing is revenue raising for the club, and not to do with serving the interests of all members equally.

Same with Pay TV, indeed more so. I am a supporter of Cornesy's view that we should fight to keep as much footy on FTA TV as possible, in the face of KG's indifference because dear old KG doesn't think we'll ever lose FTA TV, and <name suppressed>, who is on Foxtel's payroll and can only repeat the mantra "it's inevitable, get over it".

Cornesy may be a privileged person himself in many ways (not least of which is being able to get his wife a writing gig that she'd never score on her merits :p ); that doesn't mean his views on such things are necessarily those of a man who is "bagging others for attaining their own slice of sunshine".

[RogerRabbit69]

While I'm not strongly arguing the case I made at the start of this thread (I have been convinced in this thread that it's not such a big deal), I don't think that if the system were to change, the "interests" of current Gold Members should be a factor. Yes, they bought an option. For one year. Maybe they are planning on it being an investment over several years, but that is not a reason for the Club to not change the system, if there was a good reason to do so.
Disclaimer: I'm a gold member

Arrowman, I know you're not passionately one way or the other on this one .... just presenting another side to the argument.

If Gold Members' loyalties weren't recognised, then perhaps there's an argument that the same could be said of silver members. It doesn't matter if silver members had the same seats for every year ..... they've only bought the rights to those seats for one year ..... and they'll be treated on the same basis as every other person interested in attending Crows' home games.

Can you imagine the outcry?

I think the system's OK. People still had the option of upgrading to a gold membership. And obviously some chose not to.

[Mad Dog]

That's a bit harsh. I think Cornesy's views on things like Gold Memberships and Pay TV, whether you agree with them or not, are genuinely held by him as part of a philosophy that the game should be accessible to all regardless of their income level.

I don't think he is trying to "pull down" Gold Members, just asking the question as to whether a football club shouldn't try to make GF tickets more accessible to all members without asking them to pay for the privilege. Even you acknowledged that a large part of the Gold Member thing is revenue raising for the club, and not to do with serving the interests of all members equally.

Same with Pay TV, indeed more so. I am a supporter of Cornesy's view that we should fight to keep as much footy on FTA TV as possible, in the face of KG's indifference because dear old KG doesn't think we'll ever lose FTA TV, and <name suppressed>, who is on Foxtel's payroll and can only repeat the mantra "it's inevitable, get over it".

Cornesy may be a privileged person himself in many ways (not least of which is being able to get his wife a writing gig that she'd never score on her merits :p ); that doesn't mean his views on such things are necessarily those of a man who is "bagging others for attaining their own slice of sunshine".
Fair enough - that's your take on it - I usually like to give Graham the benefit of the doubt on these sorts of matters - but now and again his true colours come through - like the other night when he was interviewing Paul Barry on the Warne biography. Suddenly instead of being able to ride rough-shot over the pleb masses as he does most nights - he was confronted by a man who a) can give as good as he gets, and b) has NFI who Graham Cornes is and what's more couldn't give a fat rat's toss bag.

You could sense the quivering in his voice as Barry pretty much dismissed Cornes' view. (mid post disclaimer: I think Barry is a knob btw:D ). Cornes then spent the rest of the interview with a raised voice and taking every opportunity to talk over Barry. Cornes thought he was being challenged intellectually......lost focus on the issue, and was horrified at that notion (notwithstanding the content of the argument) and proceeded to behave like a twat for the rest of the interview.

This behavior was emblematic of the whole Cornes facade IMO - but that's just my view.

:)

[arrowman]

If Gold Members' loyalties weren't recognised, then perhaps there's an argument that the same could be said of silver members. It doesn't matter if silver members had the same seats for every year ..... they've only bought the rights to those seats for one year ..... and they'll be treated on the same basis as every other person interested in attending Crows' home games.

Can you imagine the outcry?Different situation. Season ticket holders get first dibs on the same seats when they're offered the following year. Gold Members also get first dibs on GMs the following year. But if the whole (GM) system were disbanded - well, that's not the same situation as if they suddenly decided to cancel all memberships and start again from scratch.

Gold Membership, with respect, is not a "loyalty" that deserves to be recognised year after year (beyond the first right of refusal on a renewal) or should deserve some sort of special treatment if the system were changed.
I think the system's OK. People still had the option of upgrading to a gold membership. And obviously some chose not to.
I agree. And it's not like Gold Members are the ONLY people who can get GF tickets.

Last year I - well, I'll never know because it didn't go that far :( but even after I had to wait over 30 minutes to start calling the ticket line (damn meeting :mad: ) I still got in the queue at a point where I reckon (based on a conversation with someone at the club) I had a 50-50 shot at a GF ticket. So it's not so bad.

[RogerRabbit69]

Gold Membership, with respect, is not a "loyalty" that deserves to be recognised year after year (beyond the first right of refusal on a renewal) or should deserve some sort of special treatment if the system were changed.
Well, that's where we'll always disagree. I think most of the 10,000 or so gold members would be rather disappointed if their additional financial commitment was ignored.

Anyway, it seems the AFC has no intention or need to change the current set-up any time soon.

[Mad Dog]

Disclaimer: I'm a gold member

Arrowman, I know you're not passionately one way or the other on this one .... just presenting another side to the argument.

If Gold Members' loyalties weren't recognised, then perhaps there's an argument that the same could be said of silver members. It doesn't matter if silver members had the same seats for every year ..... they've only bought the rights to those seats for one year ..... and they'll be treated on the same basis as every other person interested in attending Crows' home games.

Can you imagine the outcry?

I think the system's OK. People still had the option of upgrading to a gold membership. And obviously some chose not to.
That's an excellent point.

Maybe there should be no such thing as a renewal system - maybe the club should throw season tickets and membership open to the entire community each year on a first come best dressed basis completely disregarding the previous year's membership clientele.

Bugger it - let's go further - let's just do away with ticketed seats all together and form queues down at AAMI every second week so that anyone who wants to go to the football can do so - provided they line up early enough.

Now hold on........

surely those at the front of the queue would need to line up for perhaps more than a day because they clearly place most value on seeing the football.......afterall they have sacrificed going to work, sleeping in their bed, being with their families........so their opportunity cost of seeing the footy is quite high...........

Here's a thought - because they value seeing the footy so highly - maybe the club could presell them a ticket at a higher rate, make some money, take advantage of the value this group place on seeing the footy - and in the long run, probably reduce the cost foregone of those at the front of the line by freeing up their time. This would make all parties more efficient given that no-one is sitting around being unproductive...:) :thumbsu:

They could even give it a name - Gold/Silver Membership.......:eek:

Idea has legs if you ask me.......:)

Thoughts?????..........:rolleyes:

[jenny61_99]

Of course all this wouldnt be an issue if MORE tickets were allocated to the playing clubs in the GF. Instead of the lousy (less than) 20,000 tickets allocated to the clubs PLAYING IN the bloody game, there should be AT LEAST half of the capacity of the ground allocated. If the capacity is 100,000, then 50,000 should be allocated to both clubs EQUALLY first, then if one club doesnt use their allocation, they are then offered to the other club and whatever isnt sold, is returned to the central pool for corporate, sponsors and the general public (or members of the MCG). The members of the clubs playing MUST be given a much better opportunity to see their team play in a GF than they are currently given (after all it is US that goes to the game and pays our hard earned money into the AFL coffers).

As an interstate member of the AFC - we have buckley's and no chance of getting GF tickets (should we make it). Tell me (and excuse my ignorance) - do I have to be a season ticket holder at AAMI to qualify for a Gold membership, or can I just buy my Boundary Line membership and upgrade it to a Gold?

[Mad Dog]

Different situation. Season ticket holders get first dibs on the same seats when they're offered the following year. Gold Members also get first dibs on GMs the following year. But if the whole (GM) system were disbanded - well, that's not the same situation as if they suddenly decided to cancel all memberships and start again from scratch.

Gold Membership, with respect, is not a "loyalty" that deserves to be recognised year after year (beyond the first right of refusal on a renewal) or should deserve some sort of special treatment if the system were changed.

I agree. And it's not like Gold Members are the ONLY people who can get GF tickets.

Last year I - well, I'll never know because it didn't go that far :( but even after I had to wait over 30 minutes to start calling the ticket line (damn meeting :mad: ) I still got in the queue at a point where I reckon (based on a conversation with someone at the club) I had a 50-50 shot at a GF ticket. So it's not so bad.
I think it's exactly the same thing - no matter the level of membership - we are all purchasing a right to something....:)

[crows98]

That's an excellent point.

Maybe there should be no such thing as a renewal system - maybe the club should throw season tickets and membership open to the entire community each year on a first come best dressed basis completely disregarding the previous year's membership clientele.

Bugger it - let's go further - let's just do away with ticketed seats all together and form queues down at AAMI every second week so that anyone who wants to go to the football can do so - provided they line up early enough.

Now hold on........

surely those at the front of the queue would need to line up for perhaps more than a day because they clearly place most value on seeing the football.......afterall they have sacrificed going to work, sleeping in their bed, being with their families........so their opportunity cost of seeing the footy is quite high...........

Here's a thought - because they value seeing the footy so highly - maybe the club could presell them a ticket at a higher rate, make some money, take advantage of the value this group place on seeing the footy - and in the long run, probably reduce the cost foregone of those at the front of the line by freeing up their time. This would make all parties more efficient given that no-one is sitting around being unproductive...:) :thumbsu:

They could even give it a name - Gold/Silver Membership.......:eek:

Idea has legs if you ask me.......:)

Thoughts?????..........:rolleyes:

It’s almost a cliché on hear now but,


Hammer. Nail. Head.:thumbsu:

[crows98]

As an interstate member of the AFC - we have buckley's and no chance of getting GF tickets (should we make it). Tell me (and excuse my ignorance) - do I have to be a season ticket holder at AAMI to qualify for a Gold membership, or can I just buy my Boundary Line membership and upgrade it to a Gold?

Gold Memberships $87

Gold memberships are available to existing gold members until January 27th, 2006. Sliver member, AAMI stadium ultimate (cat 1) and essential crows (cat 2) members and AFL member with Adelaide club support* may apply for a limited number of upgrades to gold membership by phoning the AFC on 8440 6666


* AFL members: AFL members with the AFC club support may upgrade to gold membership however AFL full members must access a Grand Final ticket thought the AFL member allocation rather than the clubs allocation if the Crows are participating. AFL sliver members who have upgraded to the AFC gold membership may access a ticket though the clubs allocation.

[arrowman]

That's an excellent point.

Maybe there should be no such thing as a renewal system - maybe the club should throw season tickets and membership open to the entire community each year on a first come best dressed basis completely disregarding the previous year's membership clientele....

They could even give it a name - Gold/Silver Membership.......:eek:

Idea has legs if you ask me......

Thoughts?????..........Yeah, yeah, righto, I get it.... :D

[arrowman]

Fair enough - that's your take on it - I usually like to give Graham the benefit of the doubt on these sorts of matters - but now and again his true colours come through - like the other night when he was interviewing Paul Barry on the Warne biography. Suddenly instead of being able to ride rough-shot over the pleb masses as he does most nights - he was confronted by a man who a) can give as good as he gets, and b) has NFI who Graham Cornes is and what's more couldn't give a fat rat's toss bag.

You could sense the quivering in his voice as Barry pretty much dismissed Cornes' view. (mid post disclaimer: I think Barry is a knob btw. Cornes then spent the rest of the interview with a raised voice and taking every opportunity to talk over Barry. Cornes thought he was being challenged intellectually......lost focus on the issue, and was horrified at that notion (notwithstanding the content of the argument) and proceeded to behave like a twat for the rest of the interview.

This behavior was emblematic of the whole Cornes facade IMO - but that's just my view.So Cornesey's an arrogant knob who's not as smart as he thinks he is, and struggles when he has to deal with someone who is articulate and not a member of the general public who can be dismissed by simply ending the phone call?

Yep, fair call, that :) But that's got nothing to do with whether his views on things like Pay TV or Gold Membership are hypocritical. But enough of that.

Just on where you've gone in the above post: I agree that the KG & Cornes show is a complete waste of time when it comes to talkback - and the Saturday show is only marginally better. But I think KG is the major offender there; I actually think if Cornes was on his own or with a better partner, it could be something decent. (Or maybe not :) ) Maybe not perfect, but better than what we've got now.

I've actually had a couple of decent conversations with Cornes when I've called in - in particular, I recall a couple of years back asking his views on Bock and Skipworth, and we had a reasonable little back and forth. But KG never contributes anything, he's either silent or he's going ballistic at some caller who has had the temerity to disagree with him.*

They (KG & Cornes) often talk over their callers, or go off on a tangent between themselves after the first 5 words (during which the brave callers will call out "hello guys? I'm still here!"), and rarely does a caller get more than about 60 seconds on air (unless they've called up to reminisce about some player that Graham knew 40 years ago).

Of course a lot of the callers are a waste of space anyway. I particularly like the ones who call up to make some point, then it's pointed out by Cornes where they're actually wrong when you look at the facts, and the caller then says "well, anyway..." and goes on to something else without even acknowledging was was just said.

Probably the guys at 5AA recognise that the quality of their talkback isn't what it could be, and they would probably say "well, we're constrained by what people call up and talk about". Well, that is true, but they also need to recognise that they guide their audience by the way they treat them. The way they treat callers now, they have no hope of anyone with half a brain bothering to call in for a serious conversation.

* There was a classic example of this a few weeks ago. KG started off the show by saying that he thought there was more to Daniel Motlop being dropped than "just form" but he wouldn't say what. The implication of off-field / discipline problems was clear, but KG wouldn't say anything more. Of course Cornes called him out on it, and so did the first few talkback callers. And KG went absolutely pink-faced ballistic as he tried to defend the indefensible. "I'm NOT implying anything, I'm NOT spreading rumours, all I'll say is....(repeats himself)...." It was really pathetic, actually - worst I've ever heard from KG and that's saying something. And especially interesting since seconds before making his remark, KG had expressed his distaste for internet rumours. :rolleyes:

[Mad Dog]

Of course we all realise don't we that next weeks headlines will be

"Crows fans in uproar over membership fiasco"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I dare you <name supressed>, I dare you.....:cool:

[jenny61_99]

Gold Memberships $87

Gold memberships are available to existing gold members until January 27th, 2006. Sliver member, AAMI stadium ultimate (cat 1) and essential crows (cat 2) members and AFL member with Adelaide club support* may apply for a limited number of upgrades to gold membership by phoning the AFC on 8440 6666


* AFL members: AFL members with the AFC club support may upgrade to gold membership however AFL full members must access a Grand Final ticket thought the AFL member allocation rather than the clubs allocation if the Crows are participating. AFL sliver members who have upgraded to the AFC gold membership may access a ticket though the clubs allocation.


Ok, Im officially confused! :p I am a Boundary Line member of the Adelaide Football Club. (Not a member of the AFL). Could I upgrade to a Gold Membership? or do I have to be a member of AAMI Stadium which would be silly as I live in Brisbane.

[arrowman]

Ok, Im officially confused! :p I am a Boundary Line member of the Adelaide Football Club. (Not a member of the AFL). Could I upgrade to a Gold Membership? or do I have to be a member of AAMI Stadium which would be silly as I live in Brisbane.Sorry, what it boils down to is - if you don't have a membership that involves a ticket to the games, you can't get a Gold Membership.

[Crow-mo]

Renewals come as part of the season ticket renewal - earlyish December IIRC.

even better, a full 6 - 7 months before gold membership for the year sells out.

seems to suggest a lot of choice involved here.

[Crow-mo]

While I'm not strongly arguing the case I made at the start of this thread (I have been convinced in this thread that it's not such a big deal), I don't think that if the system were to change, the "interests" of current Gold Members should be a factor. Yes, they bought an option. For one year. Maybe they are planning on it being an investment over several years, but that is not a reason for the Club to not change the system, if there was a good reason to do so.

I agree. this isn't a reason not to change things for the better, if an even more appropriate solution is found. I do think the interests of your most diehard supporters should be considered though.

[dyertribe]

Keep the system the way it is.

At the end of the day the outcome will be the same.

Some Crows people will get to go and love it. Many Crows people won't get to go and be bitterly disappointed.

I know plenty of people who chose not to sign up in the past and then bitched about missing out in 1998 - and the same people have chosen not to sign up when the extended allocation became available.

Sure there's costs to consider - thinking of patriarchs who may have to find 4 x the money for it - but that's the way the cookie crumbles. What chance would said patriarch have of winning 4 tickets in a lottery he'd also have to pay to enter?

[Crow-mo]

Graham Cornes lives a privileged life and has considerable influence on opinion in this town - it's time he stopped bagging others for attaining their own slice of sunshine - no matter how modest it might be.

:mad:

beautifully written. :thumbsu:

[Crow-mo]

Gold Membership, with respect, is not a "loyalty" that deserves to be recognised year after year (beyond the first right of refusal on a renewal) or should deserve some sort of special treatment if the system were changed.



I disagree, attempting to measure the worth of loyalty I think is beyond the scope of this debate - and does not inform it regardless. BUT there is a loyalty here, which should be recognised and considered.

loyalty is a good thing, not to be dismissed so easily. After all, do we know that all gold members could easily afford it? I am sure more than a few dug a little deeper, because they genuinely felt it was the right thing to do - and it may have a hurt a little too.

[dyertribe]

I disagree, attempting to measure the worth of loyalty I think is beyond the scope of this debate - and does not inform it regardless. BUT there is a loyalty here, which should be recognised and considered.

loyalty is a good thing, not to be dismissed so easily. After all, do we know that all gold members could easily afford it? I am sure more than a few dug a little deeper, because they genuinely felt it was the right thing to do - and it may have a hurt a little too.

Bingo.

I've been digging deeper since the concept was implemented prior to season 1998. So that's $80-odd x 9 years I have forked out the extra with only 1 return, ironically in the inaugural year.

If they were to suddenly scrap the gold concept in favour of an all-in lottery and I lost a GF ticket in say 2008 or 2009 at the expense of a bangwagoning JCL who went on the ST waiting list in 2005 after the craptastic orgasm which was 2004, I wouldn't be happy.

That's where loyalty should come into it, at least as a basic consideration.