View Full Version : Monty will take more wickets then Warne this summer
http://images.skysports.com/images/playerpics05_06/Cricket/England/panesar-clap.jpg
The man is a genius a once in a generation player, who will spin a web around you Aussies.
After a dreadful 12 months, I'm finally confident that we can and willl defend the Ashes this upcoming season.
Grimwood
12 Aug 2006, 00:47
Uhm..
If you say so.
I think I'll wait until he actually takes the field in Australia before I make such predictions.
Sanguinarius
12 Aug 2006, 01:51
http://images.skysports.com/images/playerpics05_06/Cricket/England/panesar-clap.jpg
The man is a genius a once in a generation player, who will spin a web around you Aussies.
After a dreadful 12 months, I'm finally confident that we can and willl defend the Ashes this upcoming season.
replace that pic with one of warne shagging your mum and you'd be correct
http://images.skysports.com/images/playerpics05_06/Cricket/England/panesar-clap.jpg
The man is a genius a once in a generation player, who will spin a web around you Aussies.
After a dreadful 12 months, I'm finally confident that we can and willl defend the Ashes this upcoming season.
A once in a generation player but that's only by Englsh standards. I'm fairly confident that you will bring a truckload of unfit and underdone bowlers and fall flat on your ar5e just like you have so many times before. I'm also eagerly awaiting Centrebets 'how many Englishmen will make the Pommy touring party' betting.
;)
usalion
12 Aug 2006, 07:32
Good to see the Poms develop an actual spinner after all these years- but to equate him with the great SKW is rather blasphemous- let's just hope he has a decent tour and the Poms provide more competition than they have in the last four visits Down Under. They are certainly a better squad, even with some shaky bowling this summer, than the squads that visited in recent tours.
By the way, what HAS happened to the much vaunted reverse swing? Lolly shop gone out of business?
http://images.skysports.com/images/playerpics05_06/Cricket/England/panesar-clap.jpg
The man is a genius a once in a generation player, who will spin a web around you Aussies.
After a dreadful 12 months, I'm finally confident that we can and willl defend the Ashes this upcoming season.
how many times have we heard that ? probably do well in one test be hearlded a champion by the poms,next test come out and get belted around a never be heard of again
TheColeTrain
12 Aug 2006, 11:14
how many times have we heard that ? probably do well in one test be hearlded a champion by the poms,next test come out and get belted around a never be heard of again
typical poms, should wait untill he does it consitently before calling him the best finger spinner in the world.
Browney2006
12 Aug 2006, 14:30
Good to see the Poms develop an actual spinner after all these years- but to equate him with the great SKW is rather blasphemous- let's just hope he has a decent tour and the Poms provide more competition than they have in the last four visits Down Under. They are certainly a better squad, even with some shaky bowling this summer, than the squads that visited in recent tours.
By the way, what HAS happened to the much vaunted reverse swing? Lolly shop gone out of business?
Did you even see Mahmood bowl in the last game? He was getting the ball to reverse very well, the thing is the Pakistan players can actually play reverse swing unlike the Aussies, so there isnt going to be much talk about it. Plus its kinda hard when your two biggest reverse swing bowlers are out injured. Harmison? Nope he is a bang in bowler, suited to bounce. Monty? Next. Hoggard? more suited to conventional swing. So you arnt going to be seeing much reverse swing during the series. But Mahmood was reversing it quite nicely in the last game, was getting it to reverse quite early as well. Beefy is confident that he can fill Simon Jones' shoes because he is starting to get it to reverse nearly as well as Jonesy can, i on the other hand arnt as confident as Beefy, but Mahmood was certainely reversing it last game, but wont be a Simon Jones. I recommend watching the game and see who is playing before making statements/excuses about the way the ball is swinging/Uprooting Australian left handers stumps.
replace that pic with one of warne shagging your mum and you'd be correct
Wow, so mature. :rolleyes:
By the way, what HAS happened to the much vaunted reverse swing? Lolly shop gone out of business?
Wonder where its gone perhaps if we had our two specialist reversers playing .Also perhaps if you had seen Mahmood bowl last week you would have seen it .Hoggard who has also developed the art is having trouble simply bowling at the moment
I note you are still hurting about last year and still can only come to terms with the fact we won by calling us cheats .Your definition of cheat must be totally outplaying the other team and showing them up for a bunch of ageing has beens
Well keep thinking it youth we are coming to cheat all over you again at a ground near you .
usalion
12 Aug 2006, 19:37
Did you even see Mahmood bowl in the last game? He was getting the ball to reverse very well, the thing is the Pakistan players can actually play reverse swing unlike the Aussies, so there isnt going to be much talk about it. Plus its kinda hard when your two biggest reverse swing bowlers are out injured. Harmison? Nope he is a bang in bowler, suited to bounce. Monty? Next. Hoggard? more suited to conventional swing. So you arnt going to be seeing much reverse swing during the series. But Mahmood was reversing it quite nicely in the last game, was getting it to reverse quite early as well. Beefy is confident that he can fill Simon Jones' shoes because he is starting to get it to reverse nearly as well as Jonesy can, i on the other hand arnt as confident as Beefy, but Mahmood was certainely reversing it last game, but wont be a Simon Jones. I recommend watching the game and see who is playing before making statements/excuses about the way the ball is swinging/Uprooting Australian left handers stumps.
And where, pray tell, can one watch the games in North America? Idiot....
There has been NO mention of reverse swing, except for the odd Pakistani ball on the commentary that I've heard (Test Match Special- have heard most of the commentary, except days one and two of the last Test). And as I recall, Hoggard did do a little reverse last year.
So crawl back under your rock, moron, and accept some needling about a bowling attack that is clearly weaker than it was this time last year- and I'm not talking about Mahmood and Monty- I'm talking about your two opening bowlers, who are in the team.
usalion
12 Aug 2006, 19:41
Wonder where its gone perhaps if we had our two specialist reversers playing .Also perhaps if you had seen Mahmood bowl last week you would have seen it .Hoggard who has also developed the art is having trouble simply bowling at the moment
I note you are still hurting about last year and still can only come to terms with the fact we won by calling us cheats .Your definition of cheat must be totally outplaying the other team and showing them up for a bunch of ageing has beens
Well keep thinking it youth we are coming to cheat all over you again at a ground near you .
Cheat? Where the hell did I say you cheated? The lollies were in the news. My, you Poms are TOUCHY about some needling....Must be an inferiority complex..
And I wish you were coming to a ground near me- but the Jake is out of the question, I suppose....
Cheat? Where the hell did I say you cheated? The lollies were in the news. My, you Poms are TOUCHY about some needling....Must be an inferiority complex..
And I wish you were coming to a ground near me- but the Jake is out of the question, I suppose....
why were lollies in the news .Was it because it was one of the many excuses your lot peddalled for the loss Needeling is fine but we all know the underlying point you are trying to make
usalion
12 Aug 2006, 19:54
why were lollies in the news .Was it because it was one of the many excuses your lot peddalled for the loss Needeling is fine but we all know the underlying point you are trying to make
I would strongly suggest you DON'T know me or the "point" I was trying to make- otherwise you would have laughed it off and moved on...I thought a sense of humour was supposed to be a strong suit for the English- I guess the Yanks trump you yet again....
crownie
12 Aug 2006, 23:32
I note you are still hurting about last year and still can only come to terms with the fact we won by calling us cheats .Your definition of cheat must be totally outplaying the other team and showing them up for a bunch of ageing has beens
Well keep thinking it youth we are coming to cheat all over you again at a ground near you .
17 years of losing and thats the best you can come up with?
DynamoUltra
13 Aug 2006, 00:32
Needs to get through customs first....
Lloyd Dobbler
13 Aug 2006, 01:47
I know this post is probably viewed very sceptically by Aussies but statistically Monty has a better record than 'Bald' Shane at the same number of Tests. So, dismiss the 'Monster' at your peril - he could well end up proving the difference between winning and losing. ;)
Lloyd Dobbler
13 Aug 2006, 01:53
A once in a generation player but that's only by Englsh standards. I'm fairly confident that you will bring a truckload of unfit and underdone bowlers and fall flat on your ar5e just like you have so many times before. I'm also eagerly awaiting Centrebets 'how many Englishmen will make the Pommy touring party' betting.
;)
So, am I right in assuming by this post that you are implying that Monty isn't English? Because, if that is the case, you are showing your lack of knowledge. Monty was born and bred in Luton, England (not far from where I was born as it happens) - so I think you need to build a bridge and get over it. :rolleyes:
Lloyd Dobbler
13 Aug 2006, 02:44
Needs to get through customs first....
Oh, haha... racial stereotyping... always a laugh riot. What an Aussie larrikin you are. You wouldn't be a One Nation supporter would you?
I would strongly suggest you DON'T know me or the "point" I was trying to make- otherwise you would have laughed it off and moved on...I thought a sense of humour was supposed to be a strong suit for the English- I guess the Yanks trump you yet again....
No we arent as funny as we used to be and the americans do rule the world so they can be the bast comics if they want .Mind you your selectors must be the biggest comics of all ending up againwith the same team who lost the ashes give or take
.Your whole point in the first place was totally wrong about reverse swing the cheating bit well that is just showing you up to be a bad loser
usalion
13 Aug 2006, 03:44
[QUOTE=linda
.Your whole point in the first place was totally wrong about reverse swing the cheating bit well that is just showing you up to be a bad loser[/QUOTE]
Well, if you say you cheated, who am I to argue? I have NEVER accused of cheating- perhaps stretching the rules with their use of subs, which continues this summer.England.
And if you go back and check the threads, I was one of the first to offer congratulations to the English supporters on a well played series. May you be as gracious in a few months when I expect the tables to be turned and the little urn to return where it belongs.
Now, to get back to Monty- someone pointed out he has better stats than warne at a comparable time in his Test career. Whether a player is a superstar (not in the eddie smith sense of the word, where any Pom or Vic who scores 25, takes a regulation catch or bowls a few good overs on the trot gets the term)- greatness will be seen in the long term- another 6 or 7 years. Monty COULD be the difference in the series- so could any of about 25-30 players, depending on what happens. At this point, he seems a big improvement over the spin option from last year, just as Cook seems a better option than Vaughan, obe.
The problem in my eyes is your pace- of course you are dealing with a bad string of injuries, but the danger that was there last summer seems quite absent, apart from a wild Old Trafford (and no, Linda, I am NOT accusing England of cheating there- home side should get the pitches they want for their Tests- that is a perfectly acceptable part of cricket). I also have my doubts whether the Poms will perform in the heat and humidity of Australia.
In about four months time, we will have the answers.
Browney2006
13 Aug 2006, 10:44
And where, pray tell, can one watch the games in North America? Idiot....
There has been NO mention of reverse swing, except for the odd Pakistani ball on the commentary that I've heard (Test Match Special- have heard most of the commentary, except days one and two of the last Test). And as I recall, Hoggard did do a little reverse last year.
So crawl back under your rock, moron, and accept some needling about a bowling attack that is clearly weaker than it was this time last year- and I'm not talking about Mahmood and Monty- I'm talking about your two opening bowlers, who are in the team.
I dont know, and i dont really care where you watch cricket, but clearly you have no right in saying that the ball wasnt reverse swinging when you didnt watch a ball. How can you tell? you are going by what others are saying? Yes Hoggard did do a LITTLE bit of reverse swing during rh ashes and he did do a LITTLE bit of reverse swing during this series. Harmison isnt a swing bowler and Monty is a spinner, so you arnt going to see as much reverse swing as last time when the two biggest reversers of the ball are injured are you? And of course there isnt going to be any talk about it on TMS, because Pakistan dont have a a clear weakness against it like Australia did. Yes i know the bowling attack is a lot weaker this time, anyone can tell you that, but thats not what we are talking about, so stop changing the subject to strengthen your case.
Browney2006
13 Aug 2006, 10:47
I know this post is probably viewed very sceptically by Aussies but statistically Monty has a better record than 'Bald' Shane at the same number of Tests. So, dismiss the 'Monster' at your peril - he could well end up proving the difference between winning and losing. ;)
That may be true, but Monty will never be as good as Warne because he is an off spinner
usalion
13 Aug 2006, 11:05
I dont know, and i dont really care where you watch cricket, but clearly you have no right in saying that the ball wasnt reverse swinging when you didnt watch a ball. How can you tell? you are going by what others are saying? Yes Hoggard did do a LITTLE bit of reverse swing during rh ashes and he did do a LITTLE bit of reverse swing during this series. Harmison isnt a swing bowler and Monty is a spinner, so you arnt going to see as much reverse swing as last time when the two biggest reversers of the ball are injured are you? And of course there isnt going to be any talk about it on TMS, because Pakistan dont have a a clear weakness against it like Australia did. Yes i know the bowling attack is a lot weaker this time, anyone can tell you that, but thats not what we are talking about, so stop changing the subject to strengthen your case.
You're the one changing things around, pal. Gee, you Poms are touchy. You went over the top on a one line comment in a post that focused on the topic of the thread that is Panesar. Deal with it.
Gee- Monty's a spinner- wow, I'd never have known that without your insightful comment.:rolleyes:
DynamoUltra
13 Aug 2006, 12:25
Oh, haha... racial stereotyping... always a laugh riot. What an Aussie larrikin you are. You wouldn't be a One Nation supporter would you?
When was the last time you ever laughed at yourself? Seriously, get a grip. No wonder the Middle East is at war, there's simply not enough laughter.
Freo Big Fella
13 Aug 2006, 13:00
Oh, haha... racial stereotyping... always a laugh riot. What an Aussie larrikin you are. You wouldn't be a One Nation supporter would you?
No convict chants this year then?
Lloyd Dobbler
13 Aug 2006, 13:33
No convict chants this year then?
I've never done a convict chant in my life. Most Aussies seem to be proud of their 'convict' heritage, I personally have no problem being called a Pommy B*****d - but that is hardly in the same ballpark as implying that Monty won't make it through customs because he supposed to look like a terrorist or something?!
Lloyd Dobbler
13 Aug 2006, 13:36
When was the last time you ever laughed at yourself? Seriously, get a grip. No wonder the Middle East is at war, there's simply not enough laughter.
Yeah the world's in trouble cos we're not making enough racist jokes at each other, Chomsky you ain't.
Browney2006
13 Aug 2006, 13:37
You're the one changing things around, pal. Gee, you Poms are touchy. You went over the top on a one line comment in a post that focused on the topic of the thread that is Panesar. Deal with it.
Gee- Monty's a spinner- wow, I'd never have known that without your insightful comment.:rolleyes:
Finished? Cant accept that you were wrong? Thats fine.
Squizza
13 Aug 2006, 13:51
I know this post is probably viewed very sceptically by Aussies but statistically Monty has a better record than 'Bald' Shane at the same number of Tests. So, dismiss the 'Monster' at your peril - he could well end up proving the difference between winning and losing. ;)
The Don was averaging 9.5 after 1 test, so does that mean every batsman that was averaging more than 9.5 after 1 test is going to be better than him? :rolleyes:
Lloyd Dobbler
13 Aug 2006, 15:03
The Don was averaging 9.5 after 1 test, so does that mean every batsman that was averaging more than 9.5 after 1 test is going to be better than him? :rolleyes:
That is a stupid analogy, at least look at the Don's average after 9 Tests (the same as Monty's played) and surprise, surprise Bradman's average after 9 Tests was 103.
Homer Jnr
13 Aug 2006, 16:34
Needs to get through customs first....
Who's placing the call to the authorities?
Homer Jnr
13 Aug 2006, 16:35
I know this post is probably viewed very sceptically by Aussies but statistically Monty has a better record than 'Bald' Shane at the same number of Tests. So, dismiss the 'Monster' at your peril - he could well end up proving the difference between winning and losing. ;)
But then Warney got to play England and since then hasn't been stopped.
Squizza
13 Aug 2006, 16:55
That is a stupid analogy, at least look at the Don's average after 9 Tests (the same as Monty's played) and surprise, surprise Bradman's average after 9 Tests was 103.
Well you comparing Panesar to Warne was pretty stupid as well. Warne is and always will be better than Panesar.
Well, if you say you cheated, who am I to argue? I have NEVER accused of cheating- perhaps stretching the rules with their use of subs, which continues this summer.England.
And if you go back and check the threads, I was one of the first to offer congratulations to the English supporters on a well played series. May you be as gracious in a few months when I expect the tables to be turned and the little urn to return where it belongs.
Now, to get back to Monty- someone pointed out he has better stats than warne at a comparable time in his Test career. Whether a player is a superstar (not in the eddie smith sense of the word, where any Pom or Vic who scores 25, takes a regulation catch or bowls a few good overs on the trot gets the term)- greatness will be seen in the long term- another 6 or 7 years. Monty COULD be the difference in the series- so could any of about 25-30 players, depending on what happens. At this point, he seems a big improvement over the spin option from last year, just as Cook seems a better option than Vaughan, obe.
The problem in my eyes is your pace- of course you are dealing with a bad string of injuries, but the danger that was there last summer seems quite absent, apart from a wild Old Trafford (and no, Linda, I am NOT accusing England of cheating there- home side should get the pitches they want for their Tests- that is a perfectly acceptable part of cricket). I also have my doubts whether the Poms will perform in the heat and humidity of Australia.
In about four months time, we will have the answers.
My whole point was you were alluding to the fact we can only get reverse swing if we cheat which was wrong .
I am always the first to congratulate the opposition if they win (except SA) because as I have always said in test cricket the best team wins .I realise you often post in a fair manner that is why I thought your post the other day was uncalled for .
I agree with you on Panesar fully ,if he bowls this well though in Aus he will do well (look how your top order struggled against Giles .
Vaughan would be better than Cook this time around I think he will struggle with Warne especially second innings and with Warne bowling 40 overs a day he will have to face him a lot.
We very rarely give our team the pitches we want we should do it more .A lot will depend on Harmison playing more than one good test .Flintoff will be up for it and theyn have both shown they can bowl in Aus .I went to the 20 20 finals yesterday and saw S Broad for the first time live he does seem to have something and was very impressive in front of a big crowd on a big occasion maybe he could be a surprise .
element
Is the heat and humidity worse than in India or Sl I wouldnt have thought so
My whole point was you were alluding to the fact we can only get reverse swing if we cheat which was wrong .
I am always the first to congratulate the opposition if they win (except SA) because as I have always said in test cricket the best team wins .I realise you often post in a fair manner that is why I thought your post the other day was uncalled for .
I agree with you on Panesar fully ,if he bowls this well though in Aus he will do well (look how your top order struggled against Giles .
Vaughan would be better than Cook this time around I think he will struggle with Warne especially second innings and with Warne bowling 40 overs a day he will have to face him a lot.
We very rarely give our team the pitches we want we should do it more .A lot will depend on Harmison playing more than one good test .Flintoff will be up for it and theyn have both shown they can bowl in Aus .I went to the 20 20 finals yesterday and saw S Broad for the first time live he does seem to have something and was very impressive in front of a big crowd on a big occasion maybe he could be a surprise .
element
Is the heat and humidity worse than in India or Sl I wouldnt have thought so
I've noted you hate SA, why? And how do you deal with having KP in your team?
I've noted you hate SA, why? And how do you deal with having KP in your team?
never liked apatheid .never liked their arrogance when they came back Cronje Cullinan McMILLAN ETC .Now I dont like their reverse racial policy .
Im a Notts member how do you think I feel about Pietersen.Last week when he blatently said to the Pak players he wasnt out confirmed everything about his nature .He is a self serving publicity hungry cheat .
Having said all that he is a fantastic player who could become great
I've noted you hate SA, why? And how do you deal with having KP in your team?
Don't be silly, he's a big star.The Allies must be lucky to have him.
never liked apatheid .never liked their arrogance when they came back Cronje Cullinan McMILLAN ETC .Now I dont like their reverse racial policy .
Im a Notts member how do you think I feel about Pietersen.Last week when he blatently said to the Pak players he wasnt out confirmed everything about his nature .He is a self serving publicity hungry cheat .
Having said all that he is a fantastic player who could become great
Well I noted where Bacher said the quota system will be dispensed with now that Prince has made it to captain. But face it without the said quota system you would not have KP. While many don't like affirmative actions or the like maybe they did the right thing to try to capture the cricket interest of their coloured and black populations who obviously comprise the bulk of their people. I suppose it was inevitable something like that would be the off-shoot of Apartheid as the native South Africans were coming from an impoverished situation and couldn't properly compete with their white counterparts for places in the national team.
I would imagine though linda the fp would be reason enough to despise them, he epitomizes everything that can be hateful in a Saffie.
Sanguinarius
14 Aug 2006, 01:39
Wow, so mature. :rolleyes:
just like the poster of this thread. at least I dont cum early though
DynamoUltra
14 Aug 2006, 01:47
Yeah the world's in trouble cos we're not making enough racist jokes at each other, Chomsky you ain't.
You only think it's racist because you interpret it that way. I may have been suggesting he is bringing in some illegal parasites with that turban of his, or maybe he has some hydroponics under it.
Further, you claim we're not making enough racist jokes, yet you're happy to call me a One Nation voter, etc, etc. A tad hypocritical? Gretzky you ain't.
I am confident Monty will do decently in Australia later in the year and cause the Aussies a few problems, if he doesn't play it would be an absolute travesty. Why on earth England would want to play Giles over him for the sake of a few lower order runs is beyond me.
Sadly, there is talk of England playing BOTH Giles and Panesar in one of the tests. That is a scary thought and would be a complete waste of a bowler. Giles won't trouble Australia at all, the Aussies will milk the cows of Australia dry against him.
Regarding the thread title, no way will Panesar take more wickets than Warne in the series; England are hopeless against good spin despite what they say and Warne will probably pick up another 30 :rolleyes:
usalion
14 Aug 2006, 03:31
[QUOTE=Rob B]I
Sadly, there is talk of England playing BOTH Giles and Panesar in one of the tests. That is a scary thought and would be a complete waste of a bowler. Giles won't trouble Australia at all, the Aussies will milk the cows of Australia dry against him.
QUOTE]
But remember, Rob, that the SCG is a spin friendly wicket, where a tandem of spinners MIGHT be critical in a match that COULD decide the series. Now, I'm NOT going to argue Giles as a partner for Monty- and agree with you that England would be idiotic not to play Monty- but if you wanted a second spinner (forget the selectors- you're in charge now)- who would be a partner for Monty? Udal? Dalrymple? One of the Yorkshire youngsters as a true smoky? Or would you just use one spinner?
One spinner. Unless England are playing on an absolute slow dustbowl that the seamers will struggle on, I see no value in dropping a member of Englands seam attack for a rank average spinner like Giles. If the second spinner was a wicket taker, then yes, but Giles just holds up an end.
One spinner. Unless England are playing on an absolute slow dustbowl that the seamers will struggle on, I see no value in dropping a member of Englands seam attack for a rank average spinner like Giles. If the second spinner was a wicket taker, then yes, but Giles just holds up an end.
Agree, better off with a seamer or even Collingwood as an all-rounder.
Agree, better off with a seamer or even Collingwood as an all-rounder.
If that were in mind, things would be looking up for Australia already.
usalion
14 Aug 2006, 13:13
Agree, better off with a seamer or even Collingwood as an all-rounder.
Slopster? Have you taken over eddie's body? Butterfingers has more potential to take wickets- he just needs to work on his bowling a bit, which he REALLY should be doing. Especially with Freddie sidelined.
Sydney is the only ground where you might use two spinners anywaybut fair comment from Rob on keeping the pace attack. You really don't want to introduce a new guy (my thought would be Dalrymple of the available crowd) to a Test series in the final Test with everything riding on the result, which is what I see happening.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Monty gets on Down Under- he seems to have enough larrikin in him to win over some of the crowd. Hope so, inany case- his attitude is great for the game.
Browney2006
14 Aug 2006, 14:43
Agree, better off with a seamer or even Collingwood as an all-rounder.
Bell, Pieterson, Vaughan & Trescothick have had better success with the ball than Collingwood at test level.
I am always the first to congratulate the opposition if they win (except SA) because as I have always said in test cricket the best team wins .
5 Test series against SA in 98, we won 2-1, they were clearly the better side.
That's why I think it was in many ways the best series by an England side in over 20 years, to be seriously outgunned & still come away with the series was a major achievement.Even the end of series averages were against us but still we managed to win.
I'll be honest it's the only time I can remember a 5 martch series when the better side didn't win but I'm sure it happens in 3 match series now & again.
But remember, Rob, that the SCG is a spin friendly wicket, where a tandem of spinners MIGHT be critical in a match that COULD decide the series. Now, I'm NOT going to argue Giles as a partner for Monty- and agree with you that England would be idiotic not to play Monty- but if you wanted a second spinner (forget the selectors- you're in charge now)- who would be a partner for Monty? Udal? Dalrymple? One of the Yorkshire youngsters as a true smoky? Or would you just use one spinner?
Mate I'll take up the answer to this question.
If it's clearly gonna turn at the SCG & we need a second spinner then I'd discount Udal & all the youngsters, it's just too early for all them ,& Udal isn't up to the task.
It'd have to come down to Dalrymple & Giles.The former gives a sense of comfort being as he's a front line batsmen but there's also the chance that a concerted assault from the Aussie batsmen would destroy him.Let's face it he's a batsman who only started to bowl full time last season.
I think I'd go with Giles, I'm no great fan, but firstly you get a decent bit of lower order batting combined with passable fielding at gulley.As for his bowling, well you wouldn't normally want to play 2 spinners of the same type but him & Monty are so different that it could work.Basically you've got Monty as one end, round the wicket giving it a bit of a rip, varying pace & flight & then you've got Giles over the wicket bowling that leg stump filth.He' always gonna be hard to score off by the right handers doing that, if Monty is bowling well at the other end you could see people trying to take Giles on over the wicket & coming a cropper.
On another of your points, you said that you thought our pace bowling would be a weakness, if it is we're in big trouble, for me it's still the foundation of our team.
Hopefully Flintoff will be back & in the groove, him & Harmison should like the extra bounce out there, Harmison is a frustrating bowler but it seems to me that if he's confronted with a pitch with bounce or a bit of devil in it then he's usually very, very good.Get him on something slowish & he's not much of a threat.Hoggard needs a bit of swing then after that he's not much threat so he's a worry.The key will be if we play 6 batsmen or 5.If it's 5 then we can play Mahmood or Broad as the 4th quick, if we play 6 then you wonder if Harmison & Flintoff will be blunted by the extra workload & whether Hoggard will have to bowl too much with an old ball.
Broad is the ace in the pack for me if the selector's have the balls.
Also on the issue of reverse swing, there hasn't been as much this season that's for sure, Mahmood gets a bit but he's all in swing to the right handers, like most reverse swingers, that's where Jones was king, he could get it going both ways, hence Aussie left handers getting their poles uprooted.For me it was the threat of it going both ways that was a cause of the mayhem as much as anyhting else so I don't see Mahmood being huge threat with it.
usalion
14 Aug 2006, 18:25
Mate I'll take up the answer to this question.
If it's clearly gonna turn at the SCG & we need a second spinner then I'd discount Udal & all the youngsters, it's just too early for all them ,& Udal isn't up to the task.
It'd have to come down to Dalrymple & Giles.The former gives a sense of comfort being as he's a front line batsmen but there's also the chance that a concerted assault from the Aussie batsmen would destroy him.Let's face it he's a batsman who only started to bowl full time last season.
I think I'd go with Giles, I'm no great fan, but firstly you get a decent bit of lower order batting combined with passable fielding at gulley.As for his bowling, well you wouldn't normally want to play 2 spinners of the same type but him & Monty are so different that it could work.Basically you've got Monty as one end, round the wicket giving it a bit of a rip, varying pace & flight & then you've got Giles over the wicket bowling that leg stump filth.He' always gonna be hard to score off by the right handers doing that, if Monty is bowling well at the other end you could see people trying to take Giles on over the wicket & coming a cropper.
On another of your points, you said that you thought our pace bowling would be a weakness, if it is we're in big trouble, for me it's still the foundation of our team.
Hopefully Flintoff will be back & in the groove, him & Harmison should like the extra bounce out there, Harmison is a frustrating bowler but it seems to me that if he's confronted with a pitch with bounce or a bit of devil in it then he's usually very, very good.Get him on something slowish & he's not much of a threat.Hoggard needs a bit of swing then after that he's not much threat so he's a worry.The key will be if we play 6 batsmen or 5.If it's 5 then we can play Mahmood or Broad as the 4th quick, if we play 6 then you wonder if Harmison & Flintoff will be blunted by the extra workload & whether Hoggard will have to bowl too much with an old ball.
Broad is the ace in the pack for me if the selector's have the balls.
Also on the issue of reverse swing, there hasn't been as much this season that's for sure, Mahmood gets a bit but he's all in swing to the right handers, like most reverse swingers, that's where Jones was king, he could get it going both ways, hence Aussie left handers getting their poles uprooted.For me it was the threat of it going both ways that was a cause of the mayhem as much as anyhting else so I don't see Mahmood being huge threat with it.
Thanks for the post, Dipper- I didn't mean your pace was a weakness- only that as it stands now, it is not as strong (in actual performance) as the group you used last year- yes, of course there are injuries- but you have to look at what will be brought to the table. Maybe they can turn it around when they hit Brisbane- but at this point, I don't see the pace attack being as powerful as it was.OTOH, having Monty as your spinner is, to my mind, a big improvement over giles. It's actually a very nice balance at this point.The fitness of freddie could well be the key.
Bell, Pieterson, Vaughan & Trescothick have had better success with the ball than Collingwood at test level.
Fair point but I'm sure Collingwood's batting is superior to Giles's so it would strengthen their team all round. And his fielding is a bonus. I think KP has only 1 test wicket though, hardly a success story and he's been expensive to boot, even worse than Piewood.
Cooldude
14 Aug 2006, 19:01
5 Test series against SA in 98, we won 2-1, they were clearly the better side.
Mate, that series might be fixed by Hansie and his merry gang
Lloyd Dobbler
14 Aug 2006, 19:23
You only think it's racist because you interpret it that way. I may have been suggesting he is bringing in some illegal parasites with that turban of his, or maybe he has some hydroponics under it.
Further, you claim we're not making enough racist jokes, yet you're happy to call me a One Nation voter, etc, etc. A tad hypocritical? Gretzky you ain't.
Parasites or hydroponics under his turban?!? You've got both feet in your mouth now. But hey, you're right, One Nation were a racist joke. :p
davey_magik
14 Aug 2006, 21:11
I'll be very interested to see how he goes. It could either be the making of a future legend, or he will get belted like many players have been by Australia.
Warne will always take his fair share versus England. I really rate Panesar though and think he could be a big threat.
Mate, that series might be fixed by Hansie and his merry gang
They've ascertained in the inquiry that it was pilot error that killed him. Apparently the instruments were dodgy too and had been disconnected to confuse situational accuracy. It won't appease the conspiracy theorists.
Browney2006
14 Aug 2006, 22:42
They've ascertained in the inquiry that it was pilot error that killed him. Apparently the instruments were dodgy too and had been disconnected to confuse situational accuracy. It won't appease the conspiracy theorists.
Hansie is sitting on a remote island, living the high life.
Mate, that series might be fixed by Hansie and his merry gang
You reckon?
It would fit in many ways but what I remember from that series is a SA side that were nearly always on top of us, who won the 2nd Test, nearly won the 3rd but for the mother of all rear gaurd actions where we had one wicket left.
Then things turned ugly for the final 2 tests with the umpires giving a lot of decisions to England.If there was anything dodgy in that series the umps would have had to have been involved I reckon & I'm guessing that it would have been an englsih ump in for every game & various overseas guys for the other berth.
Seemed to me like the South Africans were competing seriously hard at the time.
Damn you just don't know do you.
We were definitely a couple of rungs down on them in terms of talent that's for sure.
Cooldude
14 Aug 2006, 23:47
You reckon?
It would fit in many ways but what I remember from that series is a SA side that were nearly always on top of us, who won the 2nd Test, nearly won the 3rd but for the mother of all rear gaurd actions where we had one wicket left.
Then things turned ugly for the final 2 tests with the umpires giving a lot of decisions to England.If there was anything dodgy in that series the umps would have had to have been involved I reckon & I'm guessing that it would have been an englsih ump in for every game & various overseas guys for the other berth.
Seemed to me like the South Africans were competing seriously hard at the time.
Damn you just don't know do you.
We were definitely a couple of rungs down on them in terms of talent that's for sure.
The series after that one (The one in South Africa where on the rain affected 5th Test Hansie and Nassar agreed with the double declaration thing) was certainly fixed
The South Africans of the 90s always look like they're giving their best, would've never believed that Hansie is a matchfixer myself if not for all the proof. They seem to fix matches way too well that you can't really detect anything much.
That's why most results involving the South Africans in the 90s has an asterisk next to it in my mind
And some of the umpires at the time were certainly involved in it as well, they were certainly paid to manipulate the result to the desired direction
Mate, that series might be fixed by Hansie and his merry gang
You mean SA didnt spend the last 20 overs of the third test trying to take the last wicket they looked like they were to me
It has to be said England were on the right side of the odd decision in the last test .A pakistani umpire as well theres a thought
DynamoUltra
15 Aug 2006, 01:04
Parasites or hydroponics under his turban?!? You've got both feet in your mouth now. But hey, you're right, One Nation were a racist joke. :p
Can you tell me why you think what I said was racist? I think your interpretation of what I said is racist. Therefore, you're crying victim because of your own perceptions. I could call you a racist because of what you've said in this thread, but honestly, I couldn't give a flying **** because there are bigger things in life than debating with some self-perceived victim of racism.
Browney2006
15 Aug 2006, 11:43
Can you tell me why you think what I said was racist? I think your interpretation of what I said is racist. Therefore, you're crying victim because of your own perceptions. I could call you a racist because of what you've said in this thread, but honestly, I couldn't give a flying **** because there are bigger things in life than debating with some self-perceived victim of racism.
So wait you are saying that you didnt think your statement was racist?
That is a stupid analogy, at least look at the Don's average after 9 Tests (the same as Monty's played) and surprise, surprise Bradman's average after 9 Tests was 103.
Nothing..........Could be more stupid than your analogies.
DynamoUltra
15 Aug 2006, 15:33
So wait you are saying that you didnt think your statement was racist?
"Needs to get through customs first"? You know, all persons in Australia need to get through customs before they can do anything in this country. How is it racist? Lloyd made it racist because he perceived it to be in relation to the way he looks, when in reality, it's what the English team will have to do before they face one ball of the Ashes.
TheColeTrain
15 Aug 2006, 15:49
"Needs to get through customs first"? You know, all persons in Australia need to get through customs before they can do anything in this country. How is it racist? Lloyd made it racist because he perceived it to be in relation to the way he looks, when in reality, it's what the English team will have to do before they face one ball of the Ashes.
dont try and make it like it wasnt racist. You and everybody knows what you meant, denying it makes you look like a even bigger moron then you did in the first place when you said it:rolleyes:
DynamoUltra
15 Aug 2006, 16:37
dont try and make it like it wasnt racist. You and everybody knows what you meant, denying it makes you look like a even bigger moron then you did in the first place when you said it:rolleyes:
Mate, it's only racist to those who perceive it that way. As I said, everyone has to go through customs in order to get into this country and this bloke is no exception. I don't see what the problem is because this guy isn't even Muslim. Everyone is perceiving my comment as "he looks like a Muslim terrorist and therefore needs to get through customs". Everyone who perceived this to be racist are the racist ones, claiming he is something that he is not. I stated a well known fact and everyone goes and twists my words. Skippy bastards, the lot of you.
Browney2006
15 Aug 2006, 19:37
"Needs to get through customs first"? You know, all persons in Australia need to get through customs before they can do anything in this country. How is it racist? Lloyd made it racist because he perceived it to be in relation to the way he looks, when in reality, it's what the English team will have to do before they face one ball of the Ashes.
Haha you just look like an idiot now.
Haha you just look like an idiot now.
You support England, and you're calling other people idiots? Let me ask you something, what keeps you here? Is it our nature? Couldn't be because we're racist ********s...Is it the lower taxes? Is it the better standard of living? Were you born in England and still receiving cheques from there, and cheques from here? (Which happens and I'd love to hear a common sense explanation for it to taxpayers of 40 years+).If its cricket and cricket only, you'll be the laughing stock again.We are still by some distance a truckload more talented, you won't have your captain (which wouldn't really matter anyway), and the Aussie players are already foaming at the mouth for redemption, (even if it is for only 1 occasion in 18 years).
Browney2006
15 Aug 2006, 21:09
You support England, and you're calling other people idiots? Let me ask you something, what keeps you here? Is it our nature? Couldn't be because we're racist ********s...Is it the lower taxes? Is it the better standard of living? Were you born in England and still receiving cheques from there, and cheques from here? (Which happens and I'd love to hear a common sense explanation for it to taxpayers of 40 years+).If its cricket and cricket only, you'll be the laughing stock again.We are still by some distance a truckload more talented, you won't have your captain (which wouldn't really matter anyway), and the Aussie players are already foaming at the mouth for redemption, (even if it is for only 1 occasion in 18 years).
I've already made you out to look like a ********, dont make me do it again. It seems like a lot of pain is being released out in this post of yours. Dont worry Australia will have there chance to lose again come the summer. Didnt think it was hurting you Aussies this much :thumbsu:
You mean SA didnt spend the last 20 overs of the third test trying to take the last wicket they looked like they were to me
It has to be said England were on the right side of the odd decision in the last test .A pakistani umpire as well theres a thought
Had a look at the scorecard for the 5th Test when SA were chasing in the 4th & Cronje was out for a duck.:eek:
Think cullinan was too & Kallis made next to nothing.
I've already made you out to look like a ********, dont make me do it again.Hahaha you wouldn't have the brain capacity "Gordie".And there's no pain paley, just hate, and with a passion, like most Aussies.Makes me wonder why you all race out here.Aint like you're wanted or anything.BTW stick to the tea and scones and leave the men stuff and the tough words to the men. ;)
Hahaha you wouldn't have the brain capacity "Gordie".And there's no pain paley, just hate, and with a passion, like most Aussies.Makes me wonder why you all race out here.Aint like you're wanted or anything.BTW stick to the tea and scones and leave the men stuff and the tough words to the men. ;)
I wonder what percentage of people from each nation visits the other.It would be interesting to see the biggest percentage .Also as an aside if there is so much hate why do they do it .
Seems to me you are just bitter and twisted there are people like you on both sides
I wonder what percentage of people from each nation visits the other.It would be interesting to see the biggest percentage .Also as an aside if there is so much hate why do they do it .
Its called Banter.Look it up in the dictionary. :)
This need to get a life outside an internet forum moment proudly brought to you by whoever this dork is.
Seems to me you are just bitter and twisted there are people like you on both sides
Whatever helps you sleep better and all..... :cool:
So, am I right in assuming by this post that you are implying that Monty isn't English? Because, if that is the case, you are showing your lack of knowledge. Monty was born and bred in Luton, England (not far from where I was born as it happens) - so I think you need to build a bridge and get over it. :rolleyes:
Just extracting the urine my friend..I just wasn't aware that you were quite so full of it.
I am confident Monty will do decently in Australia later in the year and cause the Aussies a few problems, if he doesn't play it would be an absolute travesty. Why on earth England would want to play Giles over him for the sake of a few lower order runs is beyond me.
Sadly, there is talk of England playing BOTH Giles and Panesar in one of the tests. That is a scary thought and would be a complete waste of a bowler. Giles won't trouble Australia at all, the Aussies will milk the cows of Australia dry against him.
Regarding the thread title, no way will Panesar take more wickets than Warne in the series; England are hopeless against good spin despite what they say and Warne will probably pick up another 30 :rolleyes:
Top post Rob. Monty should play in Australia this year and can bowl. Comparing him to Warnie is a bit rich though. Your boy Bell will do well down under as well I feel.
DynamoUltra
18 Aug 2006, 02:12
Just extracting the urine my friend..I just wasn't aware that you were quite so full of it.
Be careful, he may think you're being racist.
Hah, is this bloke fair dinkum?
Right then lads, let's do a quick review of things that are funnier than Dynamo's 'joke':
Walking around in the dark and stubbing your toe against the fridge
AIDS
Testicular Cancer
That painful sensory jolt of ice cold water you get when someone flushes the dunny while you're in the shower
Genital Herpes
The clap
What an utter ****ing simpleton. If I made a joke as **** poor as that, I would probably shut my gob afterwards to avoid drawing attention to it. But then I wouldn't make a joke that crap, and if I did, I wouldn't bother trying to deny it's underlying implication. Now toddle off with your tail between your legs and find a nice deep pond to drown yourself in before you appear to much more like a cretin, you odious little ****.
No need to thank me.
Wrist spinners have had very little success in Australia in recent times.
While Monty bowled well against Pakistan he's never faced a batting lineup like Australia's and i'd be surprised if he can average under 40. He might get a few at the SCG but other than that i expect very little.
Unless he gets all the tail-end average boosters, of course.
Browney2006
18 Aug 2006, 10:37
Wrist spinners have had very little success in Australia in recent times.
While Monty bowled well against Pakistan he's never faced a batting lineup like Australia's and i'd be surprised if he can average under 40. He might get a few at the SCG but other than that i expect very little.
Unless he gets all the tail-end average boosters, of course.
He isnt a wrist spinner.
JerryWexler
18 Aug 2006, 20:28
He isnt a wrist spinner.Sorry dude, when it comes to Warne, he's a wrist user.Either him or you for believing it.
Cooldude
19 Aug 2006, 00:28
Sorry dude, when it comes to Warne, he's a wrist user.Either him or you for believing it.
Except he wasn't talking about Warne, he was talking about Monty, who of course isn't a wrist spinner
matty p
19 Aug 2006, 01:18
Did you even see Mahmood bowl in the last game? He was getting the ball to reverse very well, the thing is the Pakistan players can actually play reverse swing unlike the Aussies, so there isnt going to be much talk about it.
Mahmoods rubbish. saw him bowl in england we shouldnt need to worry bout him.
Browney2006
19 Aug 2006, 09:05
Mahmoods rubbish. saw him bowl in england we shouldnt need to worry bout him.
Oh right, which test did you get along to?
MrAaron
19 Aug 2006, 09:13
http://images.skysports.com/images/playerpics05_06/Cricket/England/panesar-clap.jpg
The man is a genius a once in a generation player, who will spin a web around you Aussies.
After a dreadful 12 months, I'm finally confident that we can and willl defend the Ashes this upcoming season.
how's the current test going ? :D
http://images.skysports.com/images/badges/24x24/3067.gifEngland 173 v Pakistan 336/3http://images.skysports.com/images/badges/24x24/1214.gif
:D
DynamoUltra
23 Aug 2006, 22:01
Hah, is this bloke fair dinkum?
Right then lads, let's do a quick review of things that are funnier than Dynamo's 'joke':
Walking around in the dark and stubbing your toe against the fridge
AIDS
Testicular Cancer
That painful sensory jolt of ice cold water you get when someone flushes the dunny while you're in the shower
Genital Herpes
The clap
What an utter ****ing simpleton. If I made a joke as **** poor as that, I would probably shut my gob afterwards to avoid drawing attention to it. But then I wouldn't make a joke that crap, and if I did, I wouldn't bother trying to deny it's underlying implication. Now toddle off with your tail between your legs and find a nice deep pond to drown yourself in before you appear to much more like a cretin, you odious little ****.
No need to thank me.
Sook, sook, ****ing sook. Learn to have a laugh and these supposed racist remarks won't be offensive.
Look, I've been on the "wrong" end of racist remarks myself, but I don't take them to heart. If people want to have a go at me that's fine, but I'm not going to crack the sads.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." Maybe people who are offended by any sort of remarks should live by that quote, something I'm sure they have been told by teachers, parents and friends all through life.
Browney2006
23 Aug 2006, 22:37
how's the current test going ? :D
http://images.skysports.com/images/badges/24x24/3067.gifEngland 173 v Pakistan 336/3http://images.skysports.com/images/badges/24x24/1214.gif
:D
You tell me :D
Warne plots England's downfall
Coolum - The Ashes are still almost three months away but Shane Warne is already busy plotting Australia's revenge.
Warne has spent the off-season playing county cricket in England to get a closer look at their top batsmen and the master leg-spinner likes what he has seen.
Warne said England's new bold approach to batting unwittingly played into his hands because the risk of chasing quick runs increased his chances of getting wickets.
"It used to be a lot harder to get wickets because they used to pad me away and try and wear me down," Warne told reporters at a training camp in Queensland.
"Now they try to go after me, which is fantastic. It means I might go for a few more runs but it means I get a lot more wickets, which was proven in the last series."
Warne was easily Australia's most effective bowler in the last Ashes series in England in 2005, capturing 40 wickets, but his impressive performances were still not enough to stop England winning the series 2-1.
By their normal standards, the Australians played well below their best but have not lost a test match since and Warne said they were supremely confident of making amends at home this year.
"If we play at our best, we should win the series," he said.
"There was only a couple of runs that decided the last Ashes. It was close but we weren't at our best and it showed.
"We've beaten everyone home and away but we had one hiccup last year with the Ashes series. This is not about revenge, it's more about us proving to ourselves we're still the best side in the world."
Speculation about his future never ends but Warne, who turns 37 next month, said he was enjoying his cricket more than ever and had no plans to retire regardless of the outcome of the Ashes.
"I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I'll play as long as I possibly can," he said.
"If I don't get any more injuries, who knows how long it will be? Two, three, four, five years, who knows.
"When that time comes, I think everybody will know but at the moment I love playing cricket.
"I enjoy the challenges that lie ahead from a team point of view and from an individual point of view. "I'm looking forward to this Ashes series. It's going to be one of the best series as a player to play in."
[B]
"If we play at our best, we should win the series," he said.
I agree with this point no problem.
"There was only a couple of runs that decided the last Ashes. It was close but we weren't at our best and it showed.
But this is bollocks.
Just making out that the series was decided by a couple of runs here & there is BS & bad sportsmanship.
In case Warney wants reminding, we were one wicket away from winning the 3rd Test & we were in a dominant position in the 5th.
Cooldude
1 Sep 2006, 03:40
That "If we play at our best, we should win" line was used again and again and again and again like a broken record during the Ashes, too
The bottom line was, they kept mentioning their best, but they never played their best cricket.
It's a bull**** line, there might be some truth to it, but if we're really a champion side then we shouldn't be living on ifs and buts.
That "If we play at our best, we should win" line was used again and again and again and again like a broken record during the Ashes, too
The bottom line was, they kept mentioning their best, but they never played their best cricket.
It's a bull**** line, there might be some truth to it, but if we're really a champion side then we shouldn't be living on ifs and buts.
Agree, and but for the intervention of the weather they probably would have won the 3rd test. I think us getting so close with Lee and Kaspa probably obscured the fact that they were dominant in that test. It probably had a lot to do with their lack of self-belief at that time.
If we play at our best we should win given our home advantage but as Cooldude said, McGrath and co. kept saying it during the series in England but we never quite got it all together.
pluga_4
11 Dec 2006, 11:09
warnie 9, monty 0 :D :thumbsu:
pluga_4
15 Dec 2006, 09:44
warnie 9, monty 5 :eek:
http://images.skysports.com/images/playerpics05_06/Cricket/England/panesar-clap.jpg
The man is a genius a once in a generation player, who will spin a web around you Aussies.
After a dreadful 12 months, I'm finally confident that we can and willl defend the Ashes this upcoming season.
warnie 22, monty 8 (all in perth) :thumbsu:
GAME OVER MONTY!! :D
It begins...
It has ended
wce4premiership
3 Jan 2007, 21:32
i still love em both. :thumbsu:
Where'd all the pommy mouths go from this thread? Was there a bombscare? :confused: :o
Where'd all the pommy mouths go from this thread? Was there a bombscare? :confused: :o
Bombscare?
Damn that Mark Vermeulen :D
Damn that Mark Vermeulen :D
He hasn't been convicted yet. :p ;)
Either way his career is finished though.