Kenny get a kick

[bigman]

It is half time and is anyone else frustrated with Kenny's efforts. He needs to go back to the SANFL if he going to continue to hand upthis rubbish.

Christ can he stay on his feet and take a freaking catch.

Dockers far too good and quick.

Johncocks decision making - poor.

Umpires screwing us.

Bode doing well - but he cannot kick a goal from a set shot to save himself.

Doughty, Mattner seem to be doing OK - but who is on Cook.

He is a hack - but we are making him look good.

We are too loose and our tackles are not sticking as well as they should.

We need more from our on ballers - Goody, Shirley, Thommo.

Welsh fighting hard, but needs to adjust to the tempo of the game.

[Jimbob]

As most sides are working out now about Adelaide, shut down the aging midfield, play on at all costs and you soon find they have a very average back and forward half! What is has also shown is Adelaide have possibly the worst ruck division going around, rivials St Kilda in that regard!

[SpringChoke]

The record for a player "going to ground" in one game is 55, "Lay Down" is looking to give that record a shake.

[absolutezero]

I see an easy swap, Kenny for Ian Perrie. Until Kenny's form comes back he can watch from the sidelines. Poor choice of mark I saw, trying to go for a chest mark when the other player was right behind him, put your dukes out son!

[AndrewJo]

I see an easy swap, Kenny for Ian Perrie. Until Kenny's form comes back he can watch from the sidelines. Poor choice of mark I saw, trying to go for a chest mark when the other player was right behind him, put your dukes out son!
Maybe Kenny needs a spell but Perrie has not been up to scratch in the SANFL. I think Torney,Skipworth and Knights will come into consideration this week after good SANFL form.Roo to ff and Hentschel CHF and have some crumbers.
Injuries are starting to catch up..

[FCAGJAT]

ffs can we get roo in the middle!
we're getting killed in there!

[raikkonen]

Sarge>Kenny.

[Kane McGoodwin]

It is half time and is anyone else frustrated with Kenny's efforts. He needs to go back to the SANFL if he going to continue to hand upthis rubbish.

Christ can he stay on his feet and take a freaking catch.

Dockers far too good and quick.

Johncocks decision making - poor.

Umpires screwing us.

Bode doing well - but he cannot kick a goal from a set shot to save himself.

Doughty, Mattner seem to be doing OK - but who is on Cook.

He is a hack - but we are making him look good.

We are too loose and our tackles are not sticking as well as they should.

We need more from our on ballers - Goody, Shirley, Thommo.

Welsh fighting hard, but needs to adjust to the tempo of the game.
I have lost count the number of times I have asked for Kenny to be rested - he clearly is not fit & playing is doing him an injustice. I doubt Sarge is the answer yet, but with Welsh & Bock back in, there is no need to rush him bac in yet.

Bode was great today - kept us in the game & showed he ca kick a goal from a set shot.

I agree Dogga & Mattner were great & tha Goody, Shirley & Thommo were average (but they weren't alone).

Wha is up with our defence? No longer looking rock solid.

[King Elvis]

No way.

At the moment, Kenny is struggling, and he hasn't looked good for most of the year.

I'd either move him into the backline, or drop him for a game or two. He has been shouldering a pretty heavy load with Perrie & Bok & Hart out, but he has been looking average of late.

I'd probably drop him, and not replace him with a tall, but bring back Torney or someone. Perrie is currently not playing well enough in the SANFL to justify AFL selection.

With Bok, Henchi, Stevens, Patrick Swayze & Rutten, I think we're pretty sorted for talls, it seems like our crumbers and midfielders need more support than the Forward Line.

[Blue Red and Gold]

Where are all the posters who come in and claim its all to do with structure?
He adds so much to the team blah blah blah. He has been poor all season, he may be carrying an injury, if so, give him a rest so he can recover.

If this, so called structure involves a bloke who continually goes to ground, is slow at making decisions, rarely makes an impact on the game and cant kick over 45m, well I am your man, I wont even charge much for my services, this way Kenny can have a rest.

[King Elvis]

I think they're right, to a point.

When Bok was out we needed Kenny up there, even just to provide a contest. Now that Bokky is back, and Kenny looks tired and struggling, we could afford to give him a week off.

[macca23]

Well, for all those that wanted Kenny dropped or rested, you've got your wish, courtesy of the hamstring strain he incurred today.

Oh, and by the way.

You had a preview just how good our forward line functions without him in the last quarter.

Everybody happy now??

[wizard_9]

Good news for you guys, seems to be injured so foryour sake hopefully he gets a rest for Perrie.
The Fes Parker absoutely belted him today, it was a joy to watch.

[Ripper]

The Fes Parker absoutely belted him today,


Kenny is not Robison Crusoe where that is concerned. It just shows how highly rated He is by the Freo coaching staff that He drew Fess.

[Stiffy_18]

Kenny is not Robison Crusoe where that is concerned. It just shows how highly rated He is by the Freo coaching staff that He drew Fess.
Exactly right.

What people here seem to miss is that Shane Parker is one of the best, most under-rated defenders in the league. He hardly ever gets beaten and some of the best forwards in the competition have named him as their toughest opponent.

The fact that Freo's coaching staff gave the job of minding McGregor to Parker says something. Kenny has been struggling lately but hasn't been anywhere near as bad as some make him out.

[Ripper]

Exactly right.

What people here seem to miss is that Shane Parker is one of the best, most under-rated defenders in the league. He hardly ever gets beaten and some of the best forwards in the competition have named him as their toughest opponent.

The fact that Freo's coaching staff gave the job of minding McGregor to Parker says something. Kenny has been struggling lately but hasn't been anywhere near as bad as some make him out.

We were very fortunate that Kenny went off as Fess was then moved on to Bode with great effect.

I thought he would have started on Henchell but obviously Kenny is rated higher by the Freo coaching staff.

[Drummond]

The fact that Freo's coaching staff gave the job of minding McGregor to Parker says something. Kenny has been struggling lately but hasn't been anywhere near as bad as some make him out.
Game-by-game goals for McGregor:

0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 2, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 4, 1, 1, 0.

Now surely that's as bad as some make him out to be... :confused:

[Kane McGoodwin]

We were very fortunate that Kenny went off as Fess was then moved on to Bode with great effect.

I thought he would have started on Henchell but obviously Kenny is rated higher by the Freo coaching staff.
If the coaching staff honestly believed Kenny is more dangerous than Trent at the moment, IMO they got that wrong (though not much else).

Kenny is an important to the structure of our side - but when fit & firing - which he clearly hasn't been for some time. I hope he gets well soon & we get the old Kenny back that we have been missing.

[Blue Red and Gold]

Game-by-game goals for McGregor:

0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 2, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 4, 1, 1, 0.

Now surely that's as bad as some make him out to be... :confused:
No no no, he adds to the structure!

What a load of ****, he is a forward, his role is to kick goals, he has not done this and questions need to be asked.

Who cares if he takes the best defender? If he doesnt, someone else will, so he should retain his spot for that sole reason? Give me a break.

[macca23]

Game-by-game goals for McGregor:

0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 2, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 4, 1, 1, 0.

Now surely that's as bad as some make him out to be... :confused:

And the relevance of the above is???

Do you have any clue as to what Kenny's role in the team has been? What Neil Craig expects of him??

I know - we need Meesen at CHF!! :rolleyes:

[Blue Red and Gold]

And the relevance of the above is???

Do you have any clue as to what Kenny's role in the team has been? What Neil Craig expects of him??

I know - we need Meesen at CHF!! :rolleyes:
Do you know?

[Ripper]

No no no, he adds to the structure!

What a load of ****, he is a forward, his role is to kick goals, he has not done this and questions need to be asked.

Who cares if he takes the best defender? If he doesnt, someone else will, so he should retain his spot for that sole reason? Give me a break.

I know that while he was on that Bode was running amok.

[Drummond]

And the relevance of the above is???

Do you have any clue as to what Kenny's role in the team has been? What Neil Craig expects of him??

I know - we need Meesen at CHF!! :rolleyes:
Mate, you seriously need to get a grip about Meesen. I said he was pathetic yesterday, and he shouldn't be in the Crows side. What more do you want macca? :rolleyes:

Now I would actually like to hear your views on why McGregor is so extremely crucial to our forward line. As Blue Red and Gold said, he's in the side to kick goals, take a contested mark, and he is having no effect on the game, he is a liability.

[macca23]

Do you know?

You don't know and I don't know, but Neil Craig does.

Just over a week ago, Craig said that he could not understand the negativity among some supporters as to McGregor's performance, as he was doing the job that he asked him to do.

I'll back Neil Craig's opinion over yours and Drummond's.

[Wayne's-World]

Just watching and observing this discussion :)

[macca23]

Just watching and observing this discussion :)

As you would. :D

[Wayne's-World]

As you would. :D
I haven't said one negative comment about any player today as they were all (Bode, Mattner excepted) very very average ;)

[Blue Red and Gold]

You don't know and I don't know, but Neil Craig does.

Just over a week ago, Craig said that he could not understand the negativity among some supporters as to McGregor's performance, as he was doing the job that he asked him to do.

I'll back Neil Craig's opinion over yours and Drummond's.
Yeah I was surprised with NC coming out and defending his player, not many coaches do that, give me a break Macca, what do you expect him to say?

I dont doubt for one second that NC knows a little bit more than me, that however does not mean I , along with others cannot put an opinion out there.

So we should just sit back and go all is well, what a boring forum!

You guys just sit back and say its part of the structure blah blah blah, why not try and back this up? I directly asked you what it meant and you said you did not know.

If you apply the same theory to everything then why have you, along with everyone else been bagging the father son rule and demetriou etc etc, Im sure they know more than us about running a national competition but it didnt stop you putting your thoughts and critisism forward and rightly so too.

rant over ;)

[macca23]

Yeah I was surprised with NC coming out and defending his player, not many coaches do that, give me a break Macca, what do you expect him to say?

I dont doubt for one second that NC knows a little bit more than me, that however does not mean I , along with others cannot put an opinion out there.

So we should just sit back and go all is well, what a boring forum!

You guys just sit back and say its part of the structure blah blah blah, why not try and back this up? I directly asked you what it meant and you said you did not know.

If you apply the same theory to everything then why have you, along with everyone else been bagging the father son rule and demetriou etc etc, Im sure they know more than us about running a national competition but it didnt stop you putting your thoughts and critisism forward and rightly so too.

rant over ;)

I never said you had to agree with Craig. What I said was that I do.

Craig came out with that comment re Kenny totally without notice, because he does know what he has asked of the player, believes that Kenny has done what he has asked of him, and is unfairly criticized by people such as you and Drummond.

I don't just blindly believe every comment that others make. But I happen to accept that in every team you have stars, dashers, runners, taggers, high fliers and work-horses etc. IMO Kenny is a workhorse that has to stand under the long high ball and take the punishment that goes with that, to straighten the forward line up, in the same fashion that Robran did in our premiership years.

We have struggled for years now to recruit or draft key forwards, which is why Kenny was transferred from the back-lines to the forward line in the first place.

We just don't have better.

[Blue Red and Gold]

I never said you had to agree with Craig. What I said was that I do.

Craig came out with that comment re Kenny totally without notice, because he does know what he has asked of the player, believes that Kenny has done what he has asked of him, and is unfairly criticized by people such as you and Drummond.

I don't just blindly believe every comment that others make. But I happen to accept that in every team you have stars, dashers, runners, taggers, high fliers and work-horses etc. IMO Kenny is a workhorse that has to stand under the long high ball and take the punishment that goes with that, to straighten the forward line up, in the same fashion that Robran did in our premiership years.

We have struggled for years now to recruit or draft key forwards, which is why Kenny was transferred from the back-lines to the forward line in the first place.

We just don't have better.
I am not a traditional Kenny basher, I have actually defended him in the past and in past years I have felt he was a very good player and an underrated one at that.

However his form this year has not been good, there is something not right there, he cannot even kick. I may be judging harshly, because I have rated him rather highly in previous seasons. I dont think you can read too much into what NC said about Kenny, lets be honest what else did you expect him, or any other coach for that matter to say?

[macca23]

.

I dont think you can read too much into what NC said about Kenny, lets be honest what else did you expect him, or any other coach for that matter to say?



I think Craigy said it because he does believe it, and wanted to get that across to the public. He had no need to even mention Kenny, as he wasn't the topic of the conversation when Craigy raised it.

[SpringChoke]

Game-by-game goals for McGregor:

0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 2, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 4, 1, 1, 0.

Now surely that's as bad as some make him out to be... :confused:

It's not about statistics it's about structure - :rolleyes: . If Kenny's job is to go to ground in at least 75% of contests then he is performing his role with spectacular success.

I'm a big Kenny fan but he has been terrible this year. Let's hope he is playing injured becuase if not it's either CHB or nothing.

[Super Goalie]

Bock > Kenny

How refreshing it was in the 3rd quarter to have a CHF actually leading and providing a target. Something that I don't believe Ken has been doing for weeks. He's had a poor few weeks, time to get some form back in the SANFL.

BTW, Do the Port Magpies want Scott Stevens? I was taught from the beginning of my(short) football carrer, that if playing in the backlines, the first thing you do at the beginning of the match is check your opponants number. Once you have that number, you do not let that number more than a foot away from you when the opposition has the ball. Your objective is to make sure the player in that jumper does not have any effective disposals. Maybe Scott missed out on this basic coaching?

[Stiffy_18]

Bock > Kenny

How refreshing it was in the 3rd quarter to have a CHF actually leading and providing a target. Something that I don't believe Ken has been doing for weeks. He's had a poor few weeks, time to get some form back in the SANFL.

BTW, Do the Port Magpies want Scott Stevens? I was taught from the beginning of my(short) football carrer, that if playing in the backlines, the first thing you do at the beginning of the match is check your opponants number. Once you have that number, you do not let that number more than a foot away from you when the opposition has the ball. Your objective is to make sure the player in that jumper does not have any effective disposals. Maybe Scott missed out on this basic coaching?
Maybe the fact that we played "zone defence" for most of the game had something to do with it :rolleyes:

[Super Goalie]

Maybe the fact that we played "zone defence" for most of the game had something to do with it :rolleyes:

A zone defence of everyone 5m behind their direct opponant? I made a point of watching how Scott looked after Pav, and most timed he was trailing Pavlich to the contest.

[Stiffy_18]

A zone defence of everyone 5m behind their direct opponant? I made a point of watching how Scott looked after Pav, and most timed he was trailing Pavlich to the contest.
And Pavlich also played significant amount of time in the midfield. Sure Stevens lost him in traffic once or twice but our whole game plan is not based on the old fashined "Here is your opponent stick on him" theory. Stevens, like Bock peals off his opponent more than he is actually on him. He back his team-mates to win the ball and he will be that linkman to provide rebound. When you are not winning the ball then players that play or are instructed to play this way are in for ordinary games. Stevens was solid today. He wasn't smashed.

[maximus]

Well, for all those that wanted Kenny dropped or rested, you've got your wish, courtesy of the hamstring strain he incurred today.

Oh, and by the way.

You had a preview just how good our forward line functions without him in the last quarter.

Everybody happy now??

No knocking Kenny here but the above does not prove or disprove anything. We just did not get the ball in the final quarter and the forward line has been ordinary for weeks.
Playing bottom teams such as the Hawks and Roos before the collapse against west coast just masked our problems. For too long we have been second to the ball and waiting for the opposition to give it back to us. The better teams are not doing that.

[ant]

The only thing I'll say about Stevens, and it's been mentioned many times before, is he doesn't take enough of the body when he spoils.

He just doesn't have the requisite size/strength to legally crash into the body of an opponent when attempting the spoil, so as to knock the ball away; sometimes you just need that extra strength at the contests and he's severely lacking.

However, he has done well this year, much better than I ever envisaged, so it's hard to be too critical of him, but I really think it's a significant problem long-term and into the finals, if he maintains his place, as I'd expect him to.

[Crow-mo]

Where are all the posters who come in and claim its all to do with structure?
He adds so much to the team blah blah blah. He has been poor all season, he may be carrying an injury, if so, give him a rest so he can recover.


where are those people who think kenny adds to the structure blah blah?

i believe they're running the f***ing adelaide football club. not sure they have an account?

jesus, we hit a bit of a rough patch and...

[Blue Red and Gold]

Yeah, its only been the last few weeks he has been playing bad isnt it.

He has been ****house all season.

Sorry for putting an opinion across, maybe I should just sit back and wait for them to have a massive win before I critisize someone, just so I cant get accused of kicking them while they are down.

[Wayne's-World]

where are those people who think kenny adds to the structure blah blah?

i believe they're running the f***ing adelaide football club. not sure they have an account?

jesus, we hit a bit of a rough patch and...
Cro-Mo I think most comments are based on his performance over a sustained period .....just as a rough patch highlights player performances our peak performances also tend to put a nice glossy coat on performances as well.

In addition what other tall KPP options have we had during the year...they're all injured or under-developed. So he was required

[Blue Red and Gold]

why are people so precious over Kenny?

[Crow-mo]

No no no, he adds to the structure!

What a load of ****, he is a forward, his role is to kick goals, he has not done this and questions need to be asked.

since when is it the role of a chf to kick goals?

[Crow-mo]

Cro-Mo I think most comments are based on his performance over a sustained period .....just as a rough patch highlights player performances our peak performances also tend to put a nice glossy coat on performances as well.

In addition what other tall KPP options have we had during the year...they're all injured or under-developed. So he was required

yes, I agree. you're right. we're top of the ladder, we should hold an enquiry into what has gone wrong over a sustained period.

[Blue Red and Gold]

He is a forward, forwards have to kick goals.

I dont expect him to kick a huge bag each week, but c'mon his goal rate this year is not good enough, after his previous seasons up forward.

[Blue Red and Gold]

yes, I agree. you're right. we're top of the ladder, we should hold an enquiry into what has gone wrong over a sustained period.
Yeah, we should just sit on our hands instead.

Complacency? What complacency?

[Wayne's-World]

yes, I agree. you're right. we're top of the ladder, we should hold an enquiry into what has gone wrong over a sustained period.
The minor season counts for nothing ....the finals will exploit every teams weaknesses....and even the Crows have weaknesses

[Crow-mo]

He is a forward, forwards have to kick goals.



no. that's overly simplistic.

[Crow-mo]

Yeah, we should just sit on our hands instead.

Complacency? What complacency?

meaningless cliche board.

[Crow-mo]

The minor season counts for nothing ....the finals will exploit every teams weaknesses....and even the Crows have weaknesses

absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

[Blue Red and Gold]

meaningless cliche board.
Any thread about Kenny on here turns out to be a meaningless cliche board, however all the meaningless cliches seem to use the word "structure."

[Crow-mo]

Any thread about Kenny on here turns out to be a meaningless cliche board, however all the meaningless cliches seem to use the word "structure."

why? do you not understand the meaning of structure in this context?

[Blue Red and Gold]

What is your understanding of Kenny's role?

When we play the Saints and Riewoldt is held to a goal or two and is forced up the ground our defender is commended for doing a good job. Why is Kenny applauded when he does the same? (if he has a good game)

Last year and the season before he has been very good, look through other threads about him from previous seasons, I have been behind him. He has not been good this year, why are people so precious about it? Why do we excpet mediocrity in regards to our forwards? Is it because we havent had a good one before? (bar Modra)

[The Crows Truth]

I am not a traditional Kenny basher, I have actually defended him in the past and in past years I have felt he was a very good player and an underrated one at that.

However his form this year has not been good, there is something not right there, he cannot even kick. I may be judging harshly, because I have rated him rather highly in previous seasons. I dont think you can read too much into what NC said about Kenny, lets be honest what else did you expect him, or any other coach for that matter to say?

agree :thumbsu:

ive always rated kenny but his output is undeniably down in recent times

[Stiffy_18]

Cro-Mo I think most comments are based on his performance over a sustained period .....just as a rough patch highlights player performances our peak performances also tend to put a nice glossy coat on performances as well.

In addition what other tall KPP options have we had during the year...they're all injured or under-developed. So he was required
There is more that one way to skin the cat ;)

If Kenny was as horrible as some make him out to be he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not we had any other talls to replace him with. Bulldogs have been savaged by injuries to their talls this year, yet they were still able to put together a short forward line with one genuine tall and kick a winning score. So much so that they are in contention for a top 4 spot.

Granted, Kenny has struggled this year and he certainly hasn't had his best season but he must be doing something right in the eyes of the coaching staff because he keeps getting a game week in week out.

This line of reasoning that he is getting a game because there is no one to come in for him is a crock of ****. There are more ways to skin a cat and we certainly have the types of players to play the small forward line. Roo, Thompson, Porplyzia etc are all great in the air and on the ground.

[knackers27]

Im with BRG.

Kenny needs a run in the SANFL and should not be a walk up start to the seniors when he recovers.

Has been ****house all season.

[Wayne's-World]

If Kenny was as horrible as some make him out to be he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not we had any other talls to replace him with. Bulldogs have been savaged by injuries to their talls this year, yet they were still able to put together a short forward line with one genuine tall and kick a winning score. So much so that they are in contention for a top 4 spot.

Granted, Kenny has struggled this year and he certainly hasn't had his best season but he must be doing something right in the eyes of the coaching staff because he keeps getting a game week in week out.

This line of reasoning that he is getting a game because there is no one to come in for him is a crock of ****. There are more ways to skin a cat and we certainly have the types of players to play the small forward line. Roo, Thompson, Porplyzia etc are all great in the air and on the ground.
Poor Stiffy so innocent to the ways of the world ;)

1. All teams structure (gee I'm starting to hate that word) differently .....good coaches (like Eade) use the player types at their disposal and setup a gameplan around them. Eade has stated in interviews that when he joined the Bulldogs he was planning to play a different gamestyle to what has eventuated....but as he says he didn't fully realise the running capabilities of his group and changed his approach.

He has also said that if he had talls available he would still now probably structure up the same way.

Stiffy - no comparision here mate

2. Craig wants leading forwards but in pressure situations like finals balls do get simply pumped to the goalsquare.....so in his structure he wants talls and in Kennys case if he's not marking then as long as he's not being outmarked.

And no there have not been options unless a ruckman was used.

3. My point on Kenny (and people are not listening) is that he's not indespensible as you Stiffy have suggested last year as a contender for AA CHB :p ....sorry had to laugh at that. He's a workhorse ALA Mensch from Geelong who I also could never work out how he got a game as he only occasionly did something....anything!. But he played a lot of games and obviously structure was a buzzword at Geelong who won how many flags during Mensch's period at the club????

Back on sermon....I rate players as they would be benchmarked against players from other clubs and whether as a forward he could be a game winner. IMO he's a perfect backup player, a depth player and when injuries occur he can fill a number of rolls....but is he the superstar that people were making him out to be over the last couple of years....hell no! and yes he could easiliy have the game pass him by as the pace continues to increase each year.

[Stiffy_18]

Poor Stiffy so innocent to the ways of the world ;)

1. All teams structure (gee I'm starting to hate that word) differently .....good coaches (like Eade) use the player types at their disposal and setup a gameplan around them. Eade has stated in interviews that when he joined the Bulldogs he was planning to play a different gamestyle to what has eventuated....but as he says he didn't fully realise the running capabilities of his group and changed his approach.

He has also said that if he had talls available he would still now probably structure up the same way.

Stiffy - no comparision here mate

2. Craig wants leading forwards but in pressure situations like finals balls do get simply pumped to the goalsquare.....so in his structure he wants talls and in Kennys case if he's not marking then as long as he's not being outmarked.

And no there have not been options unless a ruckman was used.

3. My point on Kenny (and people are not listening) is that he's not indespensible as you Stiffy have suggested last year as a contender for AA CHB :p ....sorry had to laugh at that. He's a workhorse ALA Mensch from Geelong who I also could never work out how he got a game as he only occasionly did something....anything!. But he played a lot of games and obviously structure was a buzzword at Geelong who won how many flags during Mensch's period at the club????

Back on sermon....I rate players as they would be benchmarked against players from other clubs and whether as a forward he could be a game winner. IMO he's a perfect backup player, a depth player and when injuries occur he can fill a number of rolls....but is he the superstar that people were making him out to be over the last couple of years....hell no! and yes he could easiliy have the game pass him by as the pace continues to increase each year.
Wow wow wow hold your freaking horses. I have never said last year that Kenny is contender for CHB as he didn't even play CHB for more than half a year. I did mention it a while back while he was playing at CHB under Ayres where he never got beaten and at the time the number of healthy CHBs in the competition was low.

Secondly who the **** ever said that Kenny is a superstar. Please prove that allegation with some sort of quote. What people are saying is that Kenny is a good player. Has been for a number of years now. He will never be a star but he is dependable and as honest as the day is long. We all know what we are getting with Kenny. For once stop putting words into other people's mouth. No one has ever labeled him a superstar.

Now back to the WB. So are you telling me that Craig wouldn't have changed up the set up if he felt it wasn't working? If Kenny has been as bad as you and many others make him out to be then he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not there is a tall to come in and replace him. Craig would have gone with a smaller forward line if Kenny was THAT bad. Craig's#1 objective as a coach is to win games and if he felt that he had better chance with Kenny out of the side then he sure as hell would have gone for that option.

There is more than one way to structure up. We made a prelim final in 2002 with Burton as our FF. With players like Roo, Burton, Edwards, Porplyzia, Vince, Hentschel, Johncock, Thompson and Bode, there was enough of mix there for him to go small like the Bulldogs. Those small/medium guys I mentioned apart from Bode are all very strong overhead for their size and they also happen to be good at ground level and quicker than Kenny. If Kenny is as much of a liability as you like to make him out to be, he would have been back in SANFL a VERY VERY long time ago.

[Wayne's-World]

Wow wow wow hold your freaking horses.:p :p I have never said last year that Kenny is contender for CHB as he didn't even play CHB for more than half a year. I did mention it a while back while he was playing at CHB under Ayres where he never got beaten and at the time the number of healthy CHBs in the competition was low.

Secondly who the **** ever said that Kenny is a superstar. Please prove that allegation with some sort of quote. What people are saying is that Kenny is a good player. Has been for a number of years now. He will never be a star but he is dependable and as honest as the day is long. We all know what we are getting with Kenny. For once stop putting words into other people's mouth. No one has ever labeled him a superstar.


1. I said a couple of years ago ....that didn't mean neccessarily last year but seeing as he was talked up early last year on the back of a good 2004 year at CHB....there is always a reputation carryover to the next season by supporters and you were no exception.

2. There was a thread on who in the Crows team at trading were considered "untouchable" ....guess who was in the top 5....yep you guessed Kenny :eek: :p

now people should never confuse dependability and being untouchable.......so whilst the term superstar I agree was not used it was strongly inferred thru that thread.

[The Crows Truth]

Now back to the WB. So are you telling me that Craig wouldn't have changed up the set up if he felt it wasn't working? If Kenny has been as bad as you and many others make him out to be then he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not there is a tall to come in and replace him. Craig would have gone with a smaller forward line if Kenny was THAT bad. Craig's#1 objective as a coach is to win games and if he felt that he had better chance with Kenny out of the side then he sure as hell would have gone for that option.

.

stiffy without wanting to get in between you and WW here :eek: I would have to say that Kennys form and output is considerably down on previous yrs. wouldnt you agree with this?

[Wayne's-World]

Now back to the WB. So are you telling me that Craig wouldn't have changed up the set up if he felt it wasn't working? If Kenny has been as bad as you and many others make him out to be then he would have been dropped regardless of whether or not there is a tall to come in and replace him. Craig would have gone with a smaller forward line if Kenny was THAT bad. Craig's#1 objective as a coach is to win games and if he felt that he had better chance with Kenny out of the side then he sure as hell would have gone for that option.

There is more than one way to structure up. We made a prelim final in 2002 with Burton as our FF. With players like Roo, Burton, Edwards, Porplyzia, Vince, Hentschel, Johncock, Thompson and Bode, there was enough of mix there for him to go small like the Bulldogs. Those small/medium guys I mentioned apart from Bode are all very strong overhead for their size and they also happen to be good at ground level and quicker than Kenny. If Kenny is as much of a liability as you like to make him out to be, he would have been back in SANFL a VERY VERY long time ago.
Thing with Kenny is he provides a contest and is rarely outmarked...that's good and we have been winning if you've noticed...so some issues remain dormant till a Collingwood loss occurs and then these issues raise their heads.

Problem is we need more from a CHF longterm IMO than just a contest....we need a contested marking player who can kick goals from 50+ mtrs.

Collingwood have the absolute identical problem at the moment with A.Rocca....not taking marks...yet is providing a contest :confused:
ATM I would find it hard to separate Rocca and Kenny and I know the momentum growing over here in Vic about Rocca performances.

Kemnny....good back up....but not a gamebreaker!

[The Crows Truth]

.

Kemnny....good back up....but not a gamebreaker!

unlike Bode ;) :D

[Wayne's-World]

Footnote:

everyone says the game is getting quicker each and every year......why then benchmark a player from 3 years ago to demonstrate how he has performed.

It maybe that the game has quickened up to a degree where Kenny is struggling to get to enough contests......is he injured....aren't they all to a degree this time of year, but they all have to perform in the finals if we're to get the flag!

[macca23]

If Kenny is as much of a liability as you like to make him out to be, he would have been back in SANFL a VERY VERY long time ago.



You're wasting your time Stiffy.

You can't reason with closed minds. :(

[Wayne's-World]

unlike Bode ;) :D
on the back of one game :D

Have you noticed how good so many of the players play who are about to complete a contract ;)

[CrowMagnum]

No-one disagrees that he has some flaws in his game and if he is to stay in the team he needs to work on these.
The ones that I've seen (and I'm sure there are others) are

Marking - he's good overhead but tries to take the low contested mark on his chest rather than in front of him. Good defenders will always spoil him

Ground work - he's not good below the knees. Does he have a back problem that stops him bending down?

Kicking - used to be quite good but this seems to have deserted him this year

Keeping his feet - his high centre of gravity and slight lack of co-ordination predispose him to falling over more than most, but he needs a stronger mental approach to staying up

Lack of pace- this is hardly going to improve at this stage of his career but he is a tall and can compensate by running to the right places.

[Wayne's-World]

You're wasting your time Stiffy.

You can't reason with closed minds. :(
my minds not closed - give me a counter argument other than structure

[macca23]

my minds not closed - give me a counter argument other than structure

Okay.

Craig has faith in Kenny and says that he is doing the job he's asked to do. Raised by Craig unasked in a press conference to try to silence the knockers like you, who's attitude he said he can't understand.

My eyes can see the role that he's playing and I've expressed that many times. I agree with Craig.

WW says he's very ordinary. Too slow etc etc

Choice: What I see and what Craig tells us. OR WW's jaundiced opinion of Kenny.

It's as easy as that. :)

[Wayne's-World]

Okay.

Craig has faith in Kenny and says that he is doing the job he's asked to do. Raised by Craig unasked in a press conference to try to silence the knockers like you, who's attitude he said he can't understand.

My eyes can see the role that he's playing and I've expressed that many times. I agree with Craig.

WW says he's very ordinary. Too slow etc etc

Choice: What I see and what Craig tells us. OR WW's jaundiced opinion of Kenny.

It's as easy as that. :)
How can I beat that argument :o ..... solid logic, supporting evidence, obviously a legal background....I obviosly have not put my case succinctly enough and it's patently obvious I must concede :(

[macca23]

How can I beat that argument :o ..... solid logic, supporting evidence, obviously a legal background....I obviosly have not put my case succinctly enough and it's patently obvious I must concede :(

One of the smartest things you've said in this thread WW. ;) :p

[Crow-mo]

1. All teams structure (gee I'm starting to hate that word) differently

obviously.

and which structure is Kenny valuable to? ours.



2. Craig wants leading forwards but in pressure situations like finals balls do get simply pumped to the goalsquare.....so in his structure he wants talls and in Kennys case if he's not marking then as long as he's not being outmarked.

you keep talking about finals, but why have you forgotten that kenny was one of our best finals players last year?

he was excellent in Both the St Kilda and WC games, and his 'quieter' game was when when we ran rampant over the power - a less structured game in anyone's language.

Against St Kilda - 12 poessessions; 8 marks (many contested) 4 goals
against West Coast - 19 possessions; 10 marks (again many contested) 3 goals
he still kicked 2 goals against port.
9 goals in 3 games, mostly from contested marks, is a great return for a workman forward in finals. above his regular season averages i.e. he averaged 1 goal a game regular season, and in finals 3 goals a game. given our so so finals effort, this is a damned fine return.

so can we now put away this blatant untruth you've been pushing recently about him being exposed in finals.

let's stick to the basic facts that he has not been in great form. the argument is whether he brings more than just raw statistics to the party.


3. My point on Kenny (and people are not listening) is that he's not indespensible as you Stiffy have suggested last year as a contender for AA CHB :p ....

you're getting confused here. he played forward for large tracts of last year. in 2003, Malthouse listed him as his pick for AA chb - so not so laughable. in 2004 he started to get the recognition he earnt in 2003.


sorry had to laugh at that. He's a workhorse ALA Mensch from Geelong who I also could never work out how he got a game as he only occasionly did something....anything!.

should you be laughing, when by your own admission, you've volunteered another player you got wrong? ;)

you couldn't work it out, but the geelong match committee in a period of great success, could? this is not an endorsement for your view.


But he played a lot of games and obviously structure was a buzzword at Geelong who won how many flags during Mensch's period at the club????

yes, I've often thought it was all David Mensch's fault. given how much success they had in this period, this is a ridiculous assertion.


Back on sermon....I rate players as they would be benchmarked against players from other clubs and whether as a forward he could be a game winner.
IMO he's a perfect backup player, a depth player and when injuries occur he can fill a number of rolls....but is he the superstar that people were making him out to be over the last couple of years....hell no! and yes he could easiliy have the game pass him by as the pace continues to increase each year.

if the game is passing him by, how do you explain his excellent form in 2003/2004/2005? or is that filtered through the one eye open, fingers in the ears, la la la la, I can't hear you, see no evil, WW scale of assessment?

what I can't work out is how someone like you, who clearly knows a thing or two, often has some very good judgement and insights, can have such recalcitrant blind spots in the face of all evidence?

[Crow-mo]

Footnote:

everyone says the game is getting quicker each and every year......why then benchmark a player from 3 years ago to demonstrate how he has performed.

because his best season to date was in 2005.


It maybe that the game has quickened up to a degree where Kenny is struggling to get to enough contests......is he injured....aren't they all to a degree this time of year, but they all have to perform in the finals if we're to get the flag!

again, lay off this kenny no good in finals malarkey.

[Crow-mo]

my minds not closed - give me a counter argument other than structure

or...

2 + 2 = 4

ok that point is true, I concede but give me another argument: that's only 1 answer!!!! :D

when the answer is what it is, it's childish to say that's not enough.

[Blue Red and Gold]

Okay.

Craig has faith in Kenny and says that he is doing the job he's asked to do. Raised by Craig unasked in a press conference to try to silence the knockers like you, who's attitude he said he can't understand.

My eyes can see the role that he's playing and I've expressed that many times. I agree with Craig.

WW says he's very ordinary. Too slow etc etc

Choice: What I see and what Craig tells us. OR WW's jaundiced opinion of Kenny.

It's as easy as that. :)
What exactly is that role though?

[macca23]

What exactly is that role though?

Mate - just read the previous 3 million posts on this non-issue across countless threads and you'll find it stated there. Many times!!

I'm done with trying to graft eyes and ears onto the blind and deaf on this topic!! :)

[Escude]

For a guy like Kenny, i think the best option is drop him to the SANFL. At the end of the year, Kenny should be a pretty handy trade bait.Why not look for Knobel from Richmond for Kenny.Should be a direct swap, plus you need ruckman anyway.Kenny is not a forward by any means and struggles at CHB. :)

[Crow-mo]

For a guy like Kenny, i think the best option is drop him to the SANFL. At the end of the year, Kenny should be a pretty handy trade bait.Why not look for Knobel from Richmond for Kenny.Should be a direct swap, plus you need ruckman anyway.Kenny is not a forward by any means and struggles at CHB. :)

Michaelangelo,

shouldn't you be parading around your parents attic, buffalo bill style?

[Wayne's-World]

you keep talking about finals, but why have you forgotten that kenny was one of our best finals players last year?

he was excellent in Both the St Kilda and WC games, and his 'quieter' game was when when we ran rampant over the power - a less structured game in anyone's language.
Point conceded!
Against St Kilda - 12 poessessions; 8 marks (many contested) 4 goals
against West Coast - 19 possessions; 10 marks (again many contested) 3 goals

let's stick to the basic facts that he has not been in great form. the argument is whether he brings more than just raw statistics to the party.


should you be laughing, when by your own admission, you've volunteered another player you got wrong? ;)

you couldn't work it out, but the geelong match committee in a period of great success, could? this is not an endorsement for your view.
No No that's the Macca argument....youv'e supported other retorts very well but this one ?????

if the game is passing him by, how do you explain his excellent form in 2003/2004/2005? or is that filtered through the one eye open, fingers in the ears, la la la la, I can't hear you, see no evil, WW scale of assessment?
?
Last point first....the comment "passing him by" infers he's getting worse as each year progresses....so form in 2003/4/5 versus 2006 is supportive of that phrase.

His success in 03,04 under Ayres was as a stay at home CHB that did not have to run hard offensively as Stevens/Bock are required to do under Craig.
His ability to contest, and not be outmarked (that's important as a defender) was valuable and he was helped defensively by quicker players around him as Rutten is currently assisted.

Last year whilst he had good games....there were also if my memory serves me correct periods where there was a strong inference of injury hampering performance during a sustained "ordinary" period.......this year that period has been more sustained and as the game gets quicker I can see him finding it more difficult.

Have a look at the Freo replay where commentators commented on Freos defenders ability to zone off McGregor yet still catch him and get fist to ball on his leads.....not a good sign Cro-Mo

Tell me....do you think A.Rocca is good for Collingwood...he provides the structure, a power forward...but is he going to win Colingwood a final....hell I would hate my money on him

[Wayne's-World]

or...

2 + 2 = 4

ok that point is true, I concede but give me another argument: that's only 1 answer!!!! :D

when the answer is what it is, it's childish to say that's not enough.
:eek: hell another version of Rubbicks cube....;)

[Blue Red and Gold]

Mate - just read the previous 3 million posts on this non-issue across countless threads and you'll find it stated there. Many times!!

I'm done with trying to graft eyes and ears onto the blind and deaf on this topic!! :)
I could say exactly the same thing ;)

[Stiffy_18]

stiffy without wanting to get in between you and WW here :eek: I would have to say that Kennys form and output is considerably down on previous yrs. wouldnt you agree with this?
Yes I would but that doesn't mean he has been as bad as people make him out to be. Yes his form this year has been down but he has still been solid in the role he has been asked to play.

[Wayne's-World]

Yes I would but that doesn't mean he has been as bad as people make him out to be. Yes his form this year has been down but he has still been solid in the role he has been asked to play.
Please highlight any one of my hundred or so posts on McGregor over the last year where I have said he is "Bad"

Gee it's a subjective analysis of the difference between "Bad" and "Down On Form" :confused:

[Crow-mo]

Tell me....do you think A.Rocca is good for Collingwood...he provides the structure, a power forward...but is he going to win Colingwood a final....hell I would hate my money on him

wasn't Rocca a key for them when they made back to back grand finals?

tarrant is out of form too, but I wouldn't suggest this is indicative of what he is capable of, and his value to the side when fit and firing.

[Wayne's-World]

wasn't Rocca a key for them when they made back to back grand finals?

tarrant is out of form too, but I wouldn't suggest this is indicative of what he is capable of, and his value to the side when fit and firing.
Yes but I'll use your argument in the "Meesen Trade Thread on the Draft site" that was then and this is now!

Rocca is slow and overweight and puts in enough good games to continue to tantalize.....but he's the for "structure" and not on his performance....and can that philosphy bring say a collingwood undone come finals??

[Stiffy_18]

Please highlight any one of my hundred or so posts on McGregor over the last year where I have said he is "Bad"

Gee it's a subjective analysis of the difference between "Bad" and "Down On Form" :confused:
You have been bagging him all season long. Week in week out we know what you will post when it comes to Kenny, Bode and Shirley. Without a fail, like clockwork you will come out with your usual snipes and negativity. FFS you didn't even give him credit on the fine job he did against Pavlich at Subiaco earlier in the year. You still found a way to put down his game and dribble on your crappy propaganda that Kenny is not good.

All players go through seasons where they are out of form. Roo's 2001 season was forgetable by his standards. Macca had 2 years in a row that were well below his standard.

Ken has been asked to do a LOT more than was originally anticipated. He has been asked to play the role that was pencilled down for Perrie. That went out the window firstly with Bock's injury and then with Sarge injurying his knee. He has been a vaulable part of the team. He hasn't played as well as we would have liked but he has hardly been hopless as you and many others like us to believe.

Here is a newsflash for you, not everyone in the team needs to be a match breaker or a superstar as you like to call them. There are such things as role players and they are just as valuable to the team and the flashy stars that give you a chubby every time you turn on the TV ;)

[weed33]

For a guy like Kenny, i think the best option is drop him to the SANFL. At the end of the year, Kenny should be a pretty handy trade bait.Why not look for Knobel from Richmond for Kenny.Should be a direct swap, plus you need ruckman anyway.Kenny is not a forward by any means and struggles at CHB. :)

Trade bait!!! Give me a break. He may be down a bit this year but last year he was brilliant. I still think he plays his best footy at CHB but Bocky has that position sewn up. I still think he is a dangerous forward. He will turn it around. Some commentators were saying last year that it was not so silly taking him in front of Pavlich!

[Crow-mo]

Yes but I'll use your argument in the "Meesen Trade Thread on the Draft site" that was then and this is now!


please do.
doesn't change his importance to their side, much like Rocca.

They need a fit and firing rocca to succeed. surely.

[Escude]

Trade bait!!! Give me a break. He may be down a bit this year but last year he was brilliant. I still think he plays his best footy at CHB but Bocky has that position sewn up. I still think he is a dangerous forward. He will turn it around. Some commentators were saying last year that it was not so silly taking him in front of Pavlich!

I am pretty sure he will turn it around.He can kick all of 40 metres.Thats a tremendous kick. :)

[knackers27]

I am pretty sure he will turn it around.He can kick all of 40 metres.Thats a tremendous kick. :)

Prelim final last year, Kenny dobs one from 50 metres out. First goal of the game.

[Wayne's-World]

You have been bagging him all season long. Week in week out we know what you will post when it comes to Kenny, Bode and Shirley. Without a fail, like clockwork you will come out with your usual snipes and negativity.Typical club supporter with no objectivity FFS you didn't even give him credit on the fine job he did against Pavlich at Subiaco earlier in the year. You still found a way to put down his game and dribble on your crappy propaganda that Kenny is not good.

All players go through seasons where they are out of form. Roo's 2001 season was forgetable by his standards. Macca had 2 years in a row that were well below his standard.

Ken has been asked to do a LOT more than was originally anticipated. He has been asked to play the role that was pencilled down for Perrie. That went out the window firstly with Bock's injury and then with Sarge injurying his knee. He has been a vaulable part of the team. He hasn't played as well as we would have liked Fairy Floss Statement....typical of supporters of mediocrity in sport but he has hardly been hopless as you and many others like us to believe.

Here is a newsflash for you, not everyone in the team needs to be a match breaker or a superstar as you like to call them.No...but IMO a CHF as to be right up there....again you and Macca are not listening to the arguments and rationale....selective hearing I think you call it There are such things as role players and they are just as valuable to the team and the flashy stars that give you a chubby every time you turn on the TV ;)
Here's a point for you.....the tide is turning where I was a relatively lone voice who spoke out when you said he was "untouchable" at the trade table to an increasing questioning not of his past value but whether he can be a valuable contributor in the future.

I got irritable when Frazier from Collingwood was hailed as the Collingwood saviour, on magazines and put forward as their Franchise player....hell he was continually ducking his head and averaging 8 possessions a game......at least this year he's finally actually performing to his publicity.

Likewise Kenny......overated V performance and there needs to be some perspective.....not bagging as your calling it or some would say trolling because if I wasn't listed on the Adelaide board I probably would have been banned for herisey.

[Wayne's-World]

please do.
doesn't change his importance to their side, much like Rocca.

They need a fit and firing rocca to succeed. surely.
I agree, problem is they can also be a liability.......hence the good bigman V a good little man....bad bigmen rarely last particularly in a game that is more based around running.

The strong suggestion is that moast teams are starting to change there gamestyles ....with the short chip around game to finally be replaced with the quick running and quick movement style demonstrated by Freo replacing the old.

I guess teams have looked at WC and AFC and said that's the style to follow......this IMO will put pressure on to players like Kenny unless he's placed on the goal line as either a tall FF or FP....where I agree he would be handy but no superstar.

But I have previously concede this argument;)

[Crow-mo]

I am pretty sure he will turn it around.He can kick all of 40 metres.Thats a tremendous kick. :)

not even a very good troll Rooch,

is there anything you can be proud of? :)

[Wayne's-World]

Okay.

Craig has faith in Kenny and says that he is doing the job he's asked to do. Raised by Craig unasked in a press conference to try to silence the knockers like you, who's attitude he said he can't understand.

My eyes can see the role that he's playing and I've expressed that many times. I agree with Craig.

WW says he's very ordinary. Too slow etc etc

Choice: What I see and what Craig tells us. OR WW's jaundiced opinion of Kenny.

It's as easy as that. :)
I know this is an old thread BUT if McGregor was as good as you portrayed (yes and on the back of Craigs public support), and as important to our ....what do we call that?....oh yeah...Structure.

Then :
a) McGregor would have been rushed back into the side, placing Bock back into his favoured CHB role in place of Stevens.

b) He goes back to SANFL and dominates....saying to Craig PICK ME, PICK ME

But yes I have a jaundiced opinion of Kennys performance this year....and you know I just might be right ;)

[macca23]

I know this is an old thread BUT if McGregor was as good as you portrayed (yes and on the back of Craigs public support), and as important to our ....what do we call that?....oh yeah...Structure.

Then :
a) McGregor would have been rushed back into the side, placing Bock back into his favoured CHB role in place of Stevens.

b) He goes back to SANFL and dominates....saying to Craig PICK ME, PICK ME

But yes I have a jaundiced opinion of Kennys performance this year....and you know I just might be right ;)


Gee you can talk some rubbish when you have a set on a player WW :p

You know as well as I do that Kenny would not have been dropped if he hadn't been injured, because he was part of the structure that applied when theh forward line revolved around him, Hentschel and Roo.

All 3 went at once virtually which meant that Craig has had to modify the forward line structure - yes WW - structure is the key. It's a smaller more mobile structure by necessity of who's available and Kenny doesn't quite fit that structure.

I'm one of his greatest fans, but look though the posts. I wasn't calling for his return last week at all, becuase they way that Craig has re-structured the forward line didn't demand his return.

The only thing you got right is that you do have a jaudiced view on several players, with Kenny being one of them.

[Wayne's-World]

Gee you can talk some rubbish when you have a set on a player WW :p

You know as well as I do that Kenny would not have been dropped if he hadn't been injured, If you can't play because your injured of course you can't be dropped because he was part of the structure that applied when theh forward line revolved around him, Hentschel and Roo.

All 3 went at once virtually which meant that Craig has had to modify the forward line structure - yes WW - structure is the key. It's a smaller more mobile structure by necessity of who's available and Kenny doesn't quite fit that structure.

I'm one of his greatest fans, but look though the posts. I wasn't calling for his return last week at all, becuase they way that Craig has re-structured the forward line didn't demand his return.

The only thing you got right is that you do have a jaudiced view on several players, with Kenny being one of them.
:confused: The forward line was setup that way because there weren't any fit KPP available.......So based on your logic now that we have re-structured our forward line Kenny will not play again this year.

As I said they are playing Bock in the forward line by neccessity.....they have deomonstrated time and time again that they prefer him at CHB.

Yet your saying a vital cog in our structure is overlooked simply due to the new structure.

:p ....c'mon Macca pull the other one and bells will start ringing

[macca23]

:confused: The forward line was setup that way because there weren't any fit KPP available.......So based on your logic now that we have re-structured our forward line Kenny will not play again this year.

As I said they are playing Bock in the forward line by neccessity.....they have deomonstrated time and time again that they prefer him at CHB.

Yet your saying a vital cog in our structure is overlooked simply due to the new structure.

:p ....c'mon Macca pull the other one and bells will start ringing

A pointless debate, when you clearly don't understand the importance of balance and structure. :(

[Crow-mo]

Geez WW.

Kenny has currently played 136 games to date, and you hold his recovery time from injury as justification for your bias views?

[Wayne's-World]

Geez WW.

Kenny has currently played 136 games to date, and you hold his recovery time from injury as justification for your bias views?
Bias or opinion......bias suggests I have some malice to the player....hardly likely of a Crows supporter against any AFC player.

I watch games and have a view, that due to circumstances, is pretty objective IMO....doesn't mean it's right of course ;)

[Crow-mo]

Bias or opinion......bias suggests I have some malice to the player....

check one for Bias :thumbsu:


hardly likely of a Crows supporter against any AFC player.

agreed, it is disappointing.


I watch games and have a view, that due to circumstances, is pretty objective IMO....doesn't mean it's right of course ;)

agreed, your observations are usually very interesting. But when you get towards some players, your style and tone just goes into autopilot.

[kirky]

Skippy, Vince and McGregor all playing in the Eagles Reserves Elimination Final on Saturday.