View Full Version : What do you think of Welsh's first game back?
CrowTwig
13 Aug 2006, 18:05
I thought Welsh was particularly strong in leads and took some good grabs, albeit non of them contested, but showed some positive signs. Should relieve the load Roo is carrying in the forward lines and will allow him to go back into the midfield rotations. Overall, a good (but not great) game. :thumbsu:
Greatness23
13 Aug 2006, 18:06
Decent return, will get A LOT better.
Drummond
13 Aug 2006, 18:11
I thought Welshy played well, lead very well and kept presenting all day. His hands got better as the game wore on and was our probably our most threatening forward.
And he's already better than McGregor.
Greatness23
13 Aug 2006, 18:13
Kenny needs to either have a game off or go back to the back lines.
CrowTwig
13 Aug 2006, 18:14
I thought Welshy played well, lead very well and kept presenting all day. His hands got better as the game wore on and was our probably our most threatening forward.
And he's already better than McGregor.
I thought Bode kicked 4 goals :confused:
I thought Welshy played well, lead very well and kept presenting all day. His hands got better as the game wore on and was our probably our most threatening forward.
And he's already better than McGregor.
That would not be hard this year.
WELSH IS ON OUR BEST 22 AND IF YOU DONT THINK THAT YOU DONT KNOW YOUR FOOTBALL.
Stiffy_18
13 Aug 2006, 18:46
Decent return. Looked a bit confused at times with his role in the side but thats expected seeing he hasn't played this year.
Overall, a positive step forward.
Stiffy_18
13 Aug 2006, 18:47
Kenny needs to either have a game off or go back to the back lines.
Kenny pulled a hammy so I very much doubt he will be playing next week.
Kenny pulled a hammy so I very much doubt he will be playing next week.
Lets hope it ws in the warmup because he was sheissen hausen.
sum0005
13 Aug 2006, 19:13
Pretty good return from Welshy, presented well all day, and took sum good grabs, will get better and will relieve a bit of the pressure from Roo kicking the big bags of goals every week.
A solid return, but will get better
crows98
13 Aug 2006, 19:19
It didn’t help Scott Welsh find a good leading avenue when he has an extra 12 defender in the attacking 50.
Over all he will be good for the run, next challenge is to see how he coexist with Mark Ricciuto as a leading forward.
Kane McGoodwin
13 Aug 2006, 19:30
Looked a little rusty at times, but to be expected after being out for so long. Will be better for the run & showed that he can give us another dangerous forward option (which will be needed with Burton out & the KPP's struggling with injury).
Crowboy#32
13 Aug 2006, 19:57
Scotty worked very hard and was good, he is by far in the best 22 if not best 10 when fully fit! Glad to see him back and is extremely talented
maccas_no1
13 Aug 2006, 19:59
Good to see him back to some good marks kept on presenting and kicked a nice goal, great to see him back:thumbsu:
macca23
13 Aug 2006, 20:59
It didn’t help Scott Welsh find a good leading avenue when he has an extra 12 defender in the attacking 50.
Over all he will be good for the run, next challenge is to see how he coexist with Mark Ricciuto as a leading forward.
Let's be honest, I thought Welsh was a bit out of touch today, although that's understandable. Dropped at least 3 marks early that he would have held when firing on all fours last year.
From a structure point of view, is it as simple as saying McGregor out and Roo in??
Roo and Welsh play similar games and that's as a leading forward, although Roo has a couple of extra strings to his bow.
We will be very much down on height if that's the way we go, and it will prevent us from kicking long to the square.
Our forward line is starting to look rather ordinary IMO. No structure, and without Burton, no X factor.
Kane McGoodwin
13 Aug 2006, 21:05
From a structure point of view, is it as simple as saying McGregor out and Roo in??
Roo and Welsh play similar games and that's as a leading forward, although Roo has a couple of extra strings to his bow.
We will be very much down on height if that's the way we go, and it will prevent us from kicking long to the square.
Our forward line is starting to look rather ordinary IMO. No structure, and without Burton, no X factor.
I agree our forward line is a huge concern with the injuries. With the smaller Bullies forward line, do we push Rutten forward again (with Bock playing FB) to give us that big target, that will be missed with Kenny out? eg.
F: Ricciuto, Rutten, Bode
HF: Thompson, Hentschel, Welsh
macca23
13 Aug 2006, 21:15
I agree our forward line is a huge concern with the injuries. With the smaller Bullies forward line, do we push Rutten forward again (with Bock playing FB) to give us that big target, that will be missed with Kenny out? eg.
F: Ricciuto, Rutten, Bode
HF: Thompson, Hentschel, Welsh
That might work, Kane.
van Berlo will probably play on Johnson as he did last time, who really is their FF.
Bock could then be on standby to stand the resting ruckmen in the pocket if they decide to go that way.
Wayne's-World
13 Aug 2006, 21:16
Hard call to make from Victoria but IMO I think they'll bring Perrie in otherwise they won't play him this year unless injuries dictate.
3 weeks to go...time to settle side down.
Bock to stay in forward line with Perrie and Hentschell as the talls
macca23
13 Aug 2006, 21:25
Hard call to make from Victoria but IMO I think they'll bring Perrie in otherwise they won't play him this year unless injuries dictate.
3 weeks to go...time to settle side down.
Bock to stay in forward line with Perrie and Hentschell as the talls
You haven't seen it yet WW, but the game of the round was WWT v North, so you will see it later in the week.
Perrie did nothing in that game that said "pick me". Struggling for form at the moment.
Stiffy_18
13 Aug 2006, 21:28
Hard call to make from Victoria but IMO I think they'll bring Perrie in otherwise they won't play him this year unless injuries dictate.
3 weeks to go...time to settle side down.
Bock to stay in forward line with Perrie and Hentschell as the talls
I don't think a tall will get picked this week for Kenny. In fact if Kenny was fit to play, one of the talls would have been dropped.
For the game against the doggies, Rutten could well go forward for the day and let Stevens be the tall defender back there to play on Grant or who ever else plays a tall forward role for the Doggies.
I think this week's change will be Roo in for McGregor.
Wayne's-World
13 Aug 2006, 21:30
You haven't seen it yet WW, but the game of the round was WWT v North, so you will see it later in the week.
Perrie did nothing in that game that said "pick me". Struggling for form at the moment.
I understand that but can anyone tell me whether he has actually ever played a good game in the SANFL for either North or South?
He seems to struggle consistently at that level?
Wayne's-World
13 Aug 2006, 21:33
I don't think a tall will get picked this week for Kenny. In fact if Kenny was fit to play, one of the talls would have been dropped.
For the game against the doggies, Rutten could well go forward for the day and let Stevens be the tall defender back there to play on Grant or who ever else plays a tall forward role for the Doggies.
I think this week's change will be Roo in for McGregor.
I think they'll try and settle the side down and this will include tough calls on Stevens/Bock and Perrie.
I doubt Craig wants to bring players into the side on the eve of the finals, particularly talls, when they havn't been in the side for so long.
Either bring them in now or count them out of finals plans
Stiffy_18
13 Aug 2006, 21:36
I understand that but can anyone tell me whether he has actually ever played a good game in the SANFL for either North or South?
He seems to struggle consistently at that level?
He has played some very good games at SANFL level. Yeah, he does seem to not fit in at SANFL level and plays better when playing for the Crows but he is miles off his "normal" SANFL form as it stands now.
Blue Red and Gold
13 Aug 2006, 21:40
I like the idea of pushing Rutten forward, but I also think Welsh is our best long term option so should be given maximum game time to get match fit.
jenny61_99
14 Aug 2006, 00:03
Let's be honest, I thought Welsh was a bit out of touch today, although that's understandable. Dropped at least 3 marks early that he would have held when firing on all fours last year.
From a structure point of view, is it as simple as saying McGregor out and Roo in??
Roo and Welsh play similar games and that's as a leading forward, although Roo has a couple of extra strings to his bow.
We will be very much down on height if that's the way we go, and it will prevent us from kicking long to the square.
Our forward line is starting to look rather ordinary IMO. No structure, and without Burton, no X factor.
I am glad someone else thought that! I was disappointed at his easy misses for goal. That is what he is paid to do... I don't care if it's his first week back... (sorry for being harsh, but when the going gets tough - the tough have got to kick goals!). It's funny how with McGregor, Roo and Hentschell we had a reasonable (though not infallible) forward structure... now with Welshy back in and Roo essentially being ineffective for the last couple, our structure has gone to pot. Craigy better get than seen to quick fast.
CrowTwig
14 Aug 2006, 00:12
I am glad someone else thought that! I was disappointed at his easy misses for goal. That is what he is paid to do... I don't care if it's his first week back... (sorry for being harsh, but when the going gets tough - the tough have got to kick goals!). It's funny how with McGregor, Roo and Hentschell we had a reasonable (though not infallible) forward structure... now with Welshy back in and Roo essentially being ineffective for the last couple, our structure has gone to pot. Craigy better get than seen to quick fast.
So if a player comes back from a serious knee injury, and plays his first game in 12 months, you'd expect him to be the same player he used to be before he injured himself? :confused:
Cut Welsh some slack. I admittedly don't think he played at his best, but I am sure he will be back to his best in no time.
I'm trying to convince myself that it's a promising sign that while he did look out of sorts, he still could've managed with a mini-bag if he kicked straight.
I thought he lead to the right spots and did all the right things, was just a little rusty as you'd expect from a bloke that's played so little top level footy in the last 12 months.
jenny61_99
14 Aug 2006, 10:36
So if a player comes back from a serious knee injury, and plays his first game in 12 months, you'd expect him to be the same player he used to be before he injured himself? :confused:
Cut Welsh some slack. I admittedly don't think he played at his best, but I am sure he will be back to his best in no time.
I don't expect him to be at 100% but I DO expect him to kick goals. That, afterall, is his job. I didn't expect the running and chasing and tackling that he is known for... but I did expect straight kicking for goal. He missed a couple of gimme's. And it's not like he's just came straight back into the side, he has played a few at SANFL level.... and kicking for goal is the same no matter what level you play. He MUST be able to kick goals under pressure... that's what his job is. I would say on that point alone he failed yesterday. Interesting to see what he does next week.
arrowman
14 Aug 2006, 11:06
^^^ Yes, he was a bit rusty - on the other hand this is a player who averages 3-4 goals per game and you don't lose that overnight, he is worth persisting with. Plus the delivery into the forward line yesterday was crap and Freo were creating a lot of 2 on 1 contests - you have to take that into account.
jenny61_99
14 Aug 2006, 12:28
^^^ Yes, he was a bit rusty - on the other hand this is a player who averages 3-4 goals per game and you don't lose that overnight, he is worth persisting with. Plus the delivery into the forward line yesterday was crap and Freo were creating a lot of 2 on 1 contests - you have to take that into account.
Yep, sure, I take that ALL into account. But the fact remains he missed bread and butter shots that he shouldn't have. Perhaps I will reserve judgement until next week.
RogerRabbit69
14 Aug 2006, 12:46
Thought he showed some good signs - just needs a bit of fine-tuning. No amount of SANFL games can truly prepare a player for the adjustment to AFL level. Could be a very important player come finals time.
^^^ Yes, he was a bit rusty - on the other hand this is a player who averages 3-4 goals per game and you don't lose that overnight, he is worth persisting with. Plus the delivery into the forward line yesterday was crap and Freo were creating a lot of 2 on 1 contests - you have to take that into account.
He doesn't average 3-4 per game - his career average is 1.7 per game, and in his best season (last year) his average was 2.5 goals per game.
He won't lose that overnight - but he also won't turn into a 3-4 goal per game forward overnight.
I accept he was rusty and the delivery was awful, but I thought he went to ground in the contest too often yesterday.
Scotty worked very hard and was good, he is by far in the best 22 if not best 10 when fully fit!
Oh please , if he is in our top 10 then why didnt he come straight back in?
He was ok yesterday but is still rusty . Hopefully he can be servicable over the next 7 weeks
NikkiNoo
14 Aug 2006, 14:33
there was one thing that really impressed me yesterday from Welshy and that was in the last quarter when Freo wanted to play the little kick to kick in the backlines and Welsh was the one who was onto his teammates to man up and make them kick to a contest. It is that ability of his to make it very difficult for the opposition to get the ball our of our forward line that is one of his greatest assets.
Welshy tends to have a habit of if he kicks a goal with his first attempt then he kicks points for the rest of the game but if he gets a point he then proceeds to kick a bag of goals.
He wasn't the only forward yesterday to miss gettable goals - the number of them to hit the post I was yelling at them to stop aiming at the post and aim for the big gap between!
CrowTwig - your comment about his marks not being contested, well I would much prefer the delivery into our forwards for when they are on a lead and not being bombed into the forward line, so that they can take the mark out in front with their arms out so that a defender can't punch it away. I wanted to kill both kenny & trent at the start when they kept trying to mark on their chests which made it so easy for freo.
Stiffy_18
14 Aug 2006, 14:47
Oh please , if he is in our top 10 then why didnt he come straight back in?
He was ok yesterday but is still rusty . Hopefully he can be servicable over the next 7 weeks
Because he hasn missed too much work in the pre-season. Are you aware that Welshy had fractures in his legs since the start of the year and couldn't do any high intensity training.
As anyone at the AFC and they would tell you Welshy IS in our top 10. Hell some people at the club that he is the most naturally talented player on our list and yes they didn't forget McLeod.
Because he hasn missed too much work in the pre-season. Are you aware that Welshy had fractures in his legs since the start of the year and couldn't do any high intensity training.
As anyone at the AFC and they would tell you Welshy IS in our top 10. Hell some people at the club that he is the most naturally talented player on our list and yes they didn't forget McLeod.
I dont agree
Stiffy_18
14 Aug 2006, 14:54
I dont agree
Well thats your opinion but I am 100% certain that those at the club would strongly disagree with you on this one.
Capitalist
14 Aug 2006, 14:55
I dont agree
I agree with PC
If he is top 10 for talent he is bottom 10 for execution and effort :thumbsd:
however he will be better for it after that game and I am probably being way to harsh
Well thats your opinion but I am 100% certain that those at the club would strongly disagree with you on this one.
I would say there are a few more than at the club that dont agree with me either.
I would love Welsh to be in our top 10. I just feel he goes missing( injury or otherwise) too often to be considered a top 10 player.
A top 10 player is CONSISTENT and Welsh is far from consistent in injury management or on field efforts
Capitalist
14 Aug 2006, 15:03
I would say there are a few more than at the club that dont agree with me either.
I would love Welsh to be in our top 10. I just feel he goes missing( injury or otherwise) too often to be considered a top 10 player.
A top 10 player is CONSISTENT and Welsh is far from consistent in injury management or on field efforts
Welshy is best when its wet - or he has just come back from injury, he seems to go missing in the big/crunch games that we have had in the last few years. I could list atleast 10 players ahead of him on our list
In no particular order:
Goodwin
Edwards
Ricciuto
Rutten
Burton
Hart
Johncock
Hentschel
Bassett
all clearly rank ahead of Welsh. Perrie, Mattner Thompson and McGregor all ranked ahead of Welsh in the B+F last year, too, and Ben Hudson would have too knee permitting - and the B+F is the award voted on by those at the club.
At absolute best, Wesh is fighting for the 10th best spot on our list.
Pure talent, maybe - performance, no.
arrowman
14 Aug 2006, 15:56
He doesn't average 3-4 per game - his career average is 1.7 per game, and in his best season (last year) his average was 2.5 goals per game.
He won't lose that overnight - but he also won't turn into a 3-4 goal per game forward overnight.You are right, I misquoted my own stats from memory (on the "should we trade for Tarrant?" question recently. 2004-2005 he averaged 2.4 and that was what I was thinking of, not 3-4. In any case 2.4 is up there with the best of them although I grant that was only the most recent 2 seasons, not full career.
I accept he was rusty and the delivery was awful, but I thought he went to ground in the contest too often yesterday.Fair comment. I think he'll come good and he's in my 22 for the last 3 games, then let's see how we shape up for the finals.
Drummond
14 Aug 2006, 16:36
I agree with PC
If he is top 10 for talent he is bottom 10 for execution and effort :thumbsd:
however he will be better for it after that game and I am probably being way to harsh
Have you forgotton what Scott Welsh is all about? He’s brilliant at applying pressure and tackling and harassing. He always gives 100% and can be replied upon to keep working. And for those who said he looked out of sorts yesterday, he looked more threatening than McGregor. What does that say?
Capitalist
14 Aug 2006, 16:47
Have you forgotton what Scott Welsh is all about? He’s brilliant at applying pressure and tackling and harassing. He always gives 100% and can be replied upon to keep working. And for those who said he looked out of sorts yesterday, he looked more threatening than McGregor. What does that say?
I think we all understand that McGregor is out of form/injured atm
Welsh looks like he could threaten by honestly apart from 1 game against Essendon when has he even actually delivered ?
as a forward on the weekend he missed 2-3 sitters, I realise a lot of other players missed these sitters, however his role is a designated Goal kicker and should not miss for 40m out on a slight angle.
However I do accept that somethimes his defensive pressure can be good however more often than not its uneffective
Mad Dog
14 Aug 2006, 17:42
there was one thing that really impressed me yesterday from Welshy and that was in the last quarter when Freo wanted to play the little kick to kick in the backlines and Welsh was the one who was onto his teammates to man up and make them kick to a contest. It is that ability of his to make it very difficult for the opposition to get the ball our of our forward line that is one of his greatest assets.
I thought Welshy's return was full of positives - his presence adds another dimension and as you say his desperation is outstanding.
CrowTwig - your comment about his marks not being contested, well I would much prefer the delivery into our forwards for when they are on a lead and not being bombed into the forward line, so that they can take the mark out in front with their arms out so that a defender can't punch it away. I wanted to kill both kenny & trent at the start when they kept trying to mark on their chests which made it so easy for freo.
This is a fantastic point - first night at Under 8's training I remember they covered
kicking
bouncing
never handball to a ruckman
mark with your arms outstretched
this was giving me the shizens yesterday - particularly in the first qtr. Surely Craigy needs to correct these basic technique issues. Get those bloody arms out in front....:mad:
jenny61_99
14 Aug 2006, 22:52
Thought he showed some good signs - just needs a bit of fine-tuning. No amount of SANFL games can truly prepare a player for the adjustment to AFL level. Could be a very important player come finals time.
But surely kicking for a set shot would be the same in the McGoo's as it is in the AFL??
jenny61_99
14 Aug 2006, 22:59
There is no doubt that Welshy in full flight is a great thing to watch - unfortunately we don't get to see that too often. I agree that his defensive play is outstanding (at full flight) and we desperately need that at the moment. But if he is there primarily to kick goals, then kick goals he should.
Only 5 goal kickers for the Crows yesterday.... not good enough, and if that is the way it is going to be, then the KPP MUST kick a bag full.
Crow-mo
14 Aug 2006, 23:12
But surely kicking for a set shot would be the same in the McGoo's as it is in the AFL??
pressure would be different?
RogerRabbit69
14 Aug 2006, 23:38
There is no doubt that Welshy in full flight is a great thing to watch - unfortunately we don't get to see that too often. I agree that his defensive play is outstanding (at full flight) and we desperately need that at the moment. But if he is there primarily to kick goals, then kick goals he should.
It's his first AFL game of the season. It's a gradual process. It's all very well to say he should be kicking goals but it just ain't that easy.
I mean, most players struggled with set shots on the weekend. Pavlich, who has played every game for about the past three seasons, missed an absolute sitter in the third quarter. Riewoldt missed three fairly straight-forward shots during crucial times of the match against West Coast just over a week ago. It happens.
Let's not condemn a guy for missing a few set shots at his first AFL game of the year. In reality, the result of the game wasn't vital - there was nothing riding on it in terms of ladder position.
Welsh offered some strong leads and found the ball a few times. Hopefully over the next couple of weeks he'll start to find even more of it and kick a few goals. I think he deserves the chance.
I thought he played reasonably well for a first run back.
Interestingly he played FF different to what roo has been, I thought they would be playing the same role exactly.
trent still covered the rear space but Scott's leads were almost all wide and no longer than about 40 out. Roo has been straighter (most of the time) and comes out past the 50 regularly.
The effect is similar, in putting a 1 on 1 contest only within 30 metres of goal, behind them.
Still he was ok and will be much better for it.:thumbsu:
CrowTwig
14 Aug 2006, 23:54
CrowTwig - your comment about his marks not being contested, well I would much prefer the delivery into our forwards for when they are on a lead and not being bombed into the forward line, so that they can take the mark out in front with their arms out so that a defender can't punch it away. I wanted to kill both kenny & trent at the start when they kept trying to mark on their chests which made it so easy for freo.
That's a fair comment, but I should probably clear up the misunderstanding of what I said. I wasn't encouraging more delivery into our forwards to be more contested, rather, that when a contested situation does present itself, it would be handy if Welsh could have taken a few contested marks. It's probably not his strongest asset, but I was fairly impressed with the way he led at the ball all game and managed to take some nice marks. :thumbsu:
jenny61_99
15 Aug 2006, 00:40
pressure would be different?
But it shouldnt be! The technique, the process is all the same... pick a spot in the crowd in the middle of the posts and kick to there (or so some-one once told me). Like they say, the game is a lot played above the shoulders... so with a fairly poor conversion rate AGAIN this year (although not as bad as last year I don't think) somebody needs to address this issue with our boys heads! LOL
Look, I know it's unfair to have a go at Welshy for his first game back at this level... but I have always felt he was an inconsistant player and I don't think that will ever change. It just frustrates the crap out of me when these guys who are PAID PROFESSIONALS miss an easy goal. It's a given... to win games, youve gotta kick goals.
RogerRabbit69
15 Aug 2006, 00:43
How many 'easy' goals did the Crows miss against Freo? Plenty of rushed shots and kicks from difficult angles, especially considering the windy conditions.
jenny61_99
15 Aug 2006, 00:54
How many 'easy' goals did the Crows miss against Freo? Plenty of rushed shots and kicks from difficult angles, especially considering the windy conditions.
Of the 20 points? I'd say at LEAST 8 of those were from set shots that SHOULD have been kicked. We play AAMI stadium more than our opposition... we should KNOW how to play the wind and all other variables better than them - that's why it's called a HOME GROUND ADVANTAGE.
RogerRabbit69
15 Aug 2006, 10:59
If I get a chance to see the replay, I'll take special note of the 'easy' misses and report back.
CrowTwig
15 Aug 2006, 11:10
But it shouldnt be! The technique, the process is all the same... pick a spot in the crowd in the middle of the posts and kick to there (or so some-one once told me). Like they say, the game is a lot played above the shoulders... so with a fairly poor conversion rate AGAIN this year (although not as bad as last year I don't think) somebody needs to address this issue with our boys heads! LOL
Look, I know it's unfair to have a go at Welshy for his first game back at this level... but I have always felt he was an inconsistant player and I don't think that will ever change. It just frustrates the crap out of me when these guys who are PAID PROFESSIONALS miss an easy goal. It's a given... to win games, youve gotta kick goals.
I'm sure there were several others who were responsible for easy misses. Welsh is not the only forward in the team. We kicked 14 (and the opponent rushed 6) behinds in that game and Welsh kicked 2 of 14 behinds.
GoSarge
15 Aug 2006, 11:20
pressure would be different?
And the goalposts arent as high.
GoSarge
15 Aug 2006, 11:23
Of the 20 points? I'd say at LEAST 8 of those were from set shots that SHOULD have been kicked. We play AAMI stadium more than our opposition... we should KNOW how to play the wind and all other variables better than them - that's why it's called a HOME GROUND ADVANTAGE.
We should know how to play the wind ? Is the wind unique here in Adelaide that the players are used to it ? The wind is often unpredictable which vary from week to week, you dont get accustomed to it.
Home ground advantage is purely knowing the dimensions and characteristics of the ground and the home crowd.
Having said all of that, i do agree, our set shot conversion should have been better.