Just not footy!

[blackdiamond]

By popular demand this thread has been created for ALL off topic discussion and will be used in a variety of ways, the main benefit is to keep all other threads on this board to strict football discussion.


Posters can talk about anything off topic that fits within the guidelines of Bigfooty.
Posts in other threads that are considered off topic will be moved to this thread.
Replies to posts in other threads that are seen to be answered in an inappropriate manner will be moved to this thread as it does nothing to help the discussion at hand.
Posts about the moderation of this board will also be moved to this area and will be answered appropriately.The same rules apply in this thread as they would in any others (posts will be deleted and acted upon if necessary) so please treat each and every poster the way you would expect to be treated.

If we can all do this Im sure we can get this board back to where it once was and hopefully the Club will follow.

[portentous]

Couldn't have said it better myself portentous:thumbsu:
Heya Gbear. Where ya been?

Can't stop grinning right now lol. :D :D :D

[missionpossible]

Ho hum......another insipid performance, another thrashing, and hopefully, another week closer to the removal of Williams from the coaches box.
Anywhere between a 10 - 20 goal loss.


I would just like to hear one comment from you that actually indicates that you SUPPORT the Port Adelaide Football Club.

You throw more sledges at the club than any crows supporter I know including jmorg1.

It would be nice if everyone could get behind the club in its time of need rather hoping that we get thrashed so they can be justified in their desire to get rid of someone. Wouldn't it be so much better if you sat back and hoped someone would prove you wong.

[Natman]

Ho hum......another insipid performance, another thrashing, and hopefully, another week closer to the removal of Williams from the coaches box.
Anywhere between a 10 - 20 goal loss.

I predicted this type of comment

[shaz63]

Attacking footy, great youngsters. Sign Choco up for life. :D



To both you and GBear. One game proves nothing. For once the team came out and played some decent football not this constant ******** game that he has been instructing them to play.

We will go back and play the chippy chippy crap game again again and be thrashed by our cross town rivals and the young guys will have the confidence knocked out of them again.

You both need a huge reality check. Choco is not the coach to take us to a premiership.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

I predicted this type of comment
And you people wonder why I have the attitude I have.........

Any little excuse to take a cheap shot.

[*PAF]

... Any little excuse to take a cheap shot.
I agree that it seems to be this way, however the same thing happens after losses. There seems to be cheap shots flying all around every single week and some of them are bordering on getting a bit personal. IMO that is not a good thing for our board.
Is it really too much to ask (again) for everybody to ease up till the end of the year?

The alternative (one for the mods) would be to have one sticky thread for everyone to go all out in and thus not pollute every thread by this pro or anti Choco stuff week after week, game after game and even day after day.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

I would just like to hear one comment from you that actually indicates that you SUPPORT the Port Adelaide Football Club.

You throw more sledges at the club than any crows supporter I know including jmorg1.

It would be nice if everyone could get behind the club in its time of need rather hoping that we get thrashed so they can be justified in their desire to get rid of someone. Wouldn't it be so much better if you sat back and hoped someone would prove you wong.
Now you go back and read what I posted, and tell me exactly where I said I HOPE we get thrashed in order to facilitate my desire to see the coach removed?

You and your cronies on here are really starting to get up my nose, with your vitriolic, pugnacious tone and misquotes.
Lets get a few things straight. I do not throw sledges at the club at all. And I have posted more messages of support for this club over the years than you have had hot baths.So get your facts straight before you come on here gobbing off.
I have expressed an opinion that I do not believe that Mark Williams' style of coaching is what this club needs in order to develop the current list and reascend to the upper echelons of the AFL ladder. I do not believe he is capable of being a mentor to our large numer of youung kids. I happen to believe the players should want to play FOR a coach, not IN SPITE of him.
If you disagree with my assessments and opinions, that is your prerogative. You have your reasons. But your continual venomous attacks are becoming rather wearing.

For the record it was very encouraging to see the way those kids threw themselves in last night . It shows that with the right man leading them, and mentoring them, this club had a huge future over the next 5 - 8 years.

Take off your blinkers. A 'sledge ' at Mark Williams is not a ' sledge ' at the club.
Port Adelaide as a club is, and always will be, bigger than the individual

[Macca19]

Ive cleaned up this thread. Come on people. The club has just had a great win. Lets celebrate it instead of ripping each others heads off.

[Count Zero]

I agree that it seems to be this way, however the same thing happens after losses. There seems to be cheap shots flying all around every single week and some of them are bordering on getting a bit personal. IMO that is not a good thing for our board.
Is it really too much to ask (again) for everybody to ease up till the end of the year?

The alternative (one for the mods) would be to have one sticky thread for everyone to go all out in and thus not pollute every thread by this pro or anti Choco stuff week after week, game after game and even day after day.
Great post *PAF.

[morell]

Great post *PAF.

ere ere!

[Toots Hibbert]

Ho hum......another insipid performance, another thrashing, and hopefully, another week closer to the removal of Williams from the coaches box.
Anywhere between a 10 - 20 goal loss.
Righto....I think you're absolutely entitled to your negative view on Choco and I can accept if you tell me that you posted this with more than a dash of exagerration.

But....I'd like to hear your view on where the performance last night originated from if you are correct in your view that Choco is a bully who doesn't have a clue on developing young players, that he has destroyed the careers of White and Thurstans and is well on his way to destroying a number of our other young guys.

IMO Choco has not justified a new contract yet and the club should wait till part way through next season before making a decision. I'm just hoping that yourself and one or two others may be prepared to moderate the tone of your posts a couple of notches down from the vitriol that is normally displayed and be a little more balanced in your criticisms.

(Edit:- Posted this without reading posts on the previous page and missed stuff that Macca has deleted. In reponse to the suggestion that we have a thread where people can let rip - I think it's unrealistic. People have strong views and they will be brought to the table in whichever thread we discuss these issues. I don't for a minute believe that anyone here wishes ill on the club and I'm sure we're all happy to see a good performance. I agree that there is an element of score settling that takes place. I hope this post isn't seen in that light. It's not meant to be. I'm speaking my mind that's all)

[Frank Spencer Clone]

I'm just hoping that yourself and one or two others may be prepared to moderate the tone of your posts a couple of notches down from the vitriol that is normally displayed .
Practice what you preach, then maybe I'll follow suit.

[Toots Hibbert]

I think I do FSC, and I hope you took note a few days back that I don't accept other club's posters coming here and dissing our people amongst whom I have always included yourself. The fact that many of your views give me the sh*ts doesn't stop me from thinking of you as a Port person and while I have had a go at you I have not got into the gutter.

I'm simply asking for you to stop being vitriolic in your posts about Choco and display a bit more balance. I'm still interested in your response to my earlier question:-

"But....I'd like to hear your view on where the performance last night originated from if you are correct in your view that Choco is a bully who doesn't have a clue on developing young players, that he has destroyed the careers of White and Thurstans and is well on his way to destroying a number of our other young guys."

Not asking for you to accept that he's the messiah, just to back away from the position that he's the devil incarnate.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

[QUOTE]I think I do FSC, and I hope you took note a few days back that I don't accept other club's posters coming here and dissing our people amongst whom I have always included yourself. The fact that many of your views give me the sh*ts doesn't stop me from thinking of you as a Port person and while I have had a go at you I have not got into the gutter.

I'm not going to get sucked into another one of these arguments. I don't know about other posters dissing anyone. I heard about a few incidents last weekend but didnt see them.
I will say this though. Your view of going into the gutter, and mine, are very different.


I'm simply asking for you to stop being vitriolic in your posts about Choco and display a bit more balance. In other words, what you want me to say is that because we won a game, the sun shines out his arse?
Sorry. No dice. My mindset stays. Several times last night Footscray threatened to take us apart and for a moment we reverted to chippy chippy bang bang, because Williams has no plan B to counter an opposition attack. His plan A looks great when we play assertive, running football and have a goals lead - but when we are challenged by the opposition, he's stuffed.
Do yourself a favour Toots, and go look up the word ' vitriolic ' in the dictionary.
Criticism of a coach and his coaching style is not vitriol.
Personal abuse, and unwarranted remarks aimed at an individual, and / or their persona, is vitriol.
Show me where I have levelled any personal remarks about the man himself as opposed to his lack of ability to coach the side and lack of people skills.
Unless of course, you want to point to my reference to him as a ' goose ' . In which case, I think you'd be a little bit hypersensitive.

[morell]

everyone just let it go ffs

[*PAF]

... In reponse to the suggestion that we have a thread where people can let rip - I think it's unrealistic. ...
It is unrealistic but the post was meant as a hint that most of us are fed up with this crap. Hint hint. ;)

... People have strong views and they will be brought to the table in whichever thread we discuss these issues. ...
Strong views are fine and extremely welcome.
One view or rather one debate
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again
is a different matter when it hijacks every thread.


... I don't for a minute believe that anyone here wishes ill on the club and I'm sure we're all happy to see a good performance. ...
I doubt anyone here believes that to be the case. Irrelevant really.


... I agree that there is an element of score settling that takes place. ...
Yes there is. It comes across very strongly and that is what hijacks the threads more so than the various opinions.

Now hopefully everyone will let bygones be bygones and stop this, shall we say rubbish, else as I suggested and others have agreed use one thread only.
Use this thread if need be but please leave any new threads alone.

[Toots Hibbert]

...I don't know about other posters dissing anyone. I heard about a few incidents last weekend but didnt see them.....
:confused: You clearly saw the personal attack on you by NorthBhoy because you responded to it before the mods rightly removed his post.

[shaz63]

:confused: You clearly saw the personal attack on you by NorthBhoy because you responded to it before the mods rightly removed his post.


The mods removed the post by NorthBhoy after it was reported. I know this for a fact as Im the one that reported it.

His personal attack on here was unwarranted and unjustified so I did the right thing and demanded that it be removed immediatley.

So dont start saying that it wasnt seen by anyone before it was deleted.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

It is unrealistic but the post was meant as a hint that most of us are fed up with this crap. Hint hint. ;)


Strong views are fine and extremely welcome.
One view or rather one debate
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again
is a different matter when it hijacks every thread.



I doubt anyone here believes that to be the case. Irrelevant really.



Yes there is. It comes across very strongly and that is what hijacks the threads more so than the various opinions.

Now hopefully everyone will let bygones be bygones and stop this, shall we say rubbish, else as I suggested and others have agreed use one thread only.
Use this thread if need be but please leave any new threads alone.

PAF,
The reason why these multiple threads get hijacked is twofold.
Firstly, there is a small band of individuals - one of whom stands out like dog's balls - on this board, whose objective is to stir the pot. This they do incessantly and blatantly and despite the fact the board moderators know who they are, they are allowed to continue their antics without fear of recourse.

Secondly, there seems to be an insatiable desire on the part of some posters here to target other individuals every single time they come onto the board and regardless of what those individuals post. This can either be in the form of personally abusive remarks aimed at the person themselves, or in the form of ' slagging ' their opinions for no other reason except to score brownie points.
Inevitably, those individuals eventually get p issed off and utterly sick and tired with being targeted and blast back, which causes the situation you refer to. This process could be very easily shortcircuited if the people responsible for the attacks were removed, or made to understand in no uncertain terms that their antics will not be tolerated and any recurrence will see them removed.

I don't think anyone here is naive enough to think that just because we support the same club we will all get along and our personalities will all ' gel ' - but it would be a lot easier if those amongst us with a childish, immature bent and a thirst for one upmanship were smacked into shape and had their heads pulled in.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

:confused: You clearly saw the personal attack on you by NorthBhoy because you responded to it before the mods rightly removed his post.
Which personal attack was that? According to what I have been told, Northbhoy launched several vitriolic attacks last weekend and in midweek.
I didn't see the ones last weekend. I heard about them. But it doesn't take a degree from Cambridge to guess what the content was.

[Macca19]

Noone is having a go at any one party here. I think all of us would like EVERYONE to stop the bickering and back and forth crap.

[morell]

Inevitably, those individuals eventually get p issed off and utterly sick and tired with being targeted and blast back, which causes the situation you refer to. This process could be very easily shortcircuited if the people responsible for the attacks were removed, or made to understand in no uncertain terms that their antics will not be tolerated and any recurrence will see them removed..

I don’t mean to stick my beak in, and bear in mind I am new here and have no idea about the relevant histories but what is bolded above also greatly contributes to the pollution of good football threads.

I understand the want and need to defend yourself when you feel you are being attacked, but you would gain much respect, and indeed much more tolerance from the "neutrals", such as myself, if you let it be water off a ducks back. If you ignored the attacks, or responded with light hearted humour, I’m sure they would desist.

Be the bigger man, or women, and walk away, this might be difficult considering its a internet board but you know what I mean.

[Toots Hibbert]

The mods removed the post by NorthBhoy after it was reported. I know this for a fact as Im the one that reported it.

His personal attack on here was unwarranted and unjustified so I did the right thing and demanded that it be removed immediatley.

So dont start saying that it wasnt seen by anyone before it was deleted.
I think you've misunderstood me Shaz. I saw the post, so did others, I didn't like it and I made my feelings known in a post of my of my own. The mods in the meantime removed the post and, as I just said they should have done so too. I'm exactly in agreement with you on this one and you did the right thing reporting the post.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

I don’t mean to stick my beak in, and bear in mind I am new here and have no idea about the relevant histories but what is bolded above also greatly contributes to the pollution of good football threads.

I understand the want and need to defend yourself when you feel you are being attacked, but you would gain much respect, and indeed much more tolerance from the "neutrals", such as myself, if you let it be water off a ducks back. If you ignored the attacks, or responded with light hearted humour, I’m sure they would desist.

Be the bigger man, or women, and walk away, this might be difficult considering its a internet board but you know what I mean.
Yes. You have no idea of relevant histories, so therefore, your comments are akin to waving a red rag at a bull.
It says a lot about the personality of people who feel so inadequate in their lives that their only way to bolster their sense of self worth is to beat up on someone continually on an internet forum. Bears no small resemblance to primary school really, where the kid with freckles, glasses, from a poverty affected family and couldnt afford new clothes, the smallest kid in the class, or anyone else who had a weakness that could be exploited - was ostracised and / or bullied.
It's time some people round here grew up and started to behave like mature adults.

[morell]

Yes. You have no idea of relevant histories, so therefore, your comments are akin to waving a red rag at a bull.
It says a lot about the personality of people who feel so inadequate in their lives that their only way to bolster their sense of self worth is to beat up on someone continually on an internet forum. Bears no small resemblance to primary school really, where the kid with freckles, glasses, from a poverty affected family and couldnt afford new clothes, the smallest kid in the class, or anyone else who had a weakness that could be exploited - was ostracised and / or bullied.
It's time some people round here grew up and started to behave like mature adults.
Alright, fair enough, I'll stay out of it.

It’s just annoying when good football threads get hijacked by personal arguments

[Toots Hibbert]

In other words, what you want me to say is that because we won a game, the sun shines out his arse?
Didn't I write that I was not asking you to call him the messiah! Criticism of a coach and his coaching style is not vitriol.
Personal abuse, and unwarranted remarks aimed at an individual, and / or their persona, is vitriol.
Show me where I have levelled any personal remarks about the man himself as opposed to his lack of ability to coach the side and lack of people skills.
Unless of course, you want to point to my reference to him as a ' goose ' . In which case, I think you'd be a little bit hypersensitive.
Vitriol:- "Something highly caustic, or severe in it's effects, as criticism"

And no I'm not referring to you calling him a goose but, just sticking to "personal abuse and unwarranted remarks", I would include calling him a megalomaniac and a bully.

[shaz63]

Alright, fair enough, I'll stay out of it.

It’s just annoying for when good football threads get hijacked by personal arguments

Please tell that to the ones that continually decide to attack us and get away with it whilst we will receive pms telling us to stop the crap.

We are all here to discuss our team but some posters feel the need to pick the living crap out of them no matter what is said.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

It’s just annoying for when good football threads get hijacked by personal arguments
I totally agree with you.
This club is in the middle of a period where healthy debate is needed, and where discussion should be strident and ree flowing on both sides.
But as we see with the coach stay or go debate - sadly, the majority of those on the side of keeping Williams have some crazy idea that any ideas to the contraty are akin to an act of treason against the club. Why? Because he's Fos' son? So what?

As for the question of personal arguments on the threads, well, unfortunately it is a mandate not too dissimilar to the AFL tribunal, or the general everyday legal system that rules BF.
The perpetrator of an incident gets off scot free, whilst the retaliator wears the brunt of the ruling body's wrath.
Whilever this ridiculous mandate exists, the current state of affairs will remain, I'm afraid.

[shaz63]

I think you've misunderstood me Shaz. I saw the post, so did others, I didn't like it and I made my feelings known in a post of my of my own. The mods in the meantime removed the post and, as I just said they should have done so too. I'm exactly in agreement with you on this one and you did the right thing reporting the post.

Cheers for that Toots. Northbouy should be warned for posting that sort of stuff on any board but unfortunatly, seems to only have them deleted as he will find where FSC is and post the same comments everytime.

[morell]

Please tell that to the ones that continually decide to attack us and get away with it whilst we will receive pms telling us to stop the crap.

We are all here to discuss our team but some posters feel the need to pick the living crap out of them no matter what is said.

As a completely neutral observer, this personal vendetta that the two sides have is most definitely a two way street. It seems like one side puts a little bait out, then the other comes in waaay over the top, then the other side cry's foul. I blame both the baiter and the responder. If it didn’t keep ruining good football threads it would be quite humorous.

This is the last post I will make on this matter.

[Bresh]

But as we see with the coach stay or go debate - sadly, the majority of those on the side of keeping Williams have some crazy idea that any ideas to the contraty are akin to an act of treason against the club. Why? Because he's Fos' son? So what?

You don't think you're mildly exaggerating here? I would estimate that about as many would hold this opinion as the other exteme, i.e. sack Choco regardless of what happens. I hold neither opinion, as both are ridiculous.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Didn't I write that I was not asking you to call him the messiah!
Vitriol:- "Something highly caustic, or severe in it's effects, as criticism"

And no I'm not referring to you calling him a goose but, just sticking to "personal abuse and unwarranted remarks", I would include calling him a megalomaniac and a bully.
In the legal profession, there is a term ' qualified privilege ' which, although I am not qualified in the field of law, I have enough knowledge to understand that this term covers an opinion reasonably formed on the basis of observation of factual physical evidence.
To wit - my reference to Mark Williams as a ' megalomaniac ' and a ' bully' is quite legitimate. I have observed the nervousness and gunshy body language of several of our players over a lengthy period and assessed , from other evidence and observations, that this is largely caused by Williams' treatment of them.
Also, the way in which WIlliams ascended to the coaching role and the way he seems to have the entire board under his thumb, allows the term ' megalomaniac ' to fall under qualified privilege.
The key point here is that this is all factual physical evidence

Against that, your snide ' supercoach ' remark, the consensus held by you and a few others that I am an ' arrogant pr ick ' and remarks made about other such lovely things as evidenced with Northbhoy et all, are nothing but personal abuse, as none of you know me in person.

And the one person of your little group who does - or more accurately has briefly met me once or twice - can't be taken seriously anyway.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Cheers for that Toots. Northbouy should be warned for posting that sort of stuff on any board but unfortunatly, seems to only have them deleted as he will find where FSC is and post the same comments everytime.
No, Northbhoy should have been banned. Immediately. No questions asked.
The same goes for anyone who attacks an individual in such a gutless and insensitive manner on such a subject.

[shaz63]

No, Northbhoy should have been banned. Immediately. No questions asked.
The same goes for anyone who attacks an individual in such a gutless and insensitive manner on such a subject.


Sorry, thats what I meant. :(

[Frank Spencer Clone]

You don't think you're mildly exaggerating here? I would estimate that about as many would hold this opinion as the other exteme, i.e. sack Choco regardless of what happens. I hold neither opinion, as both are ridiculous.
read any post by Portentous, or wharfie19870, or Magpiespower, then come back and tell me if I'm exaggerating.

[Bresh]

read any post by Portentous, or wharfie19870, or Magpiespower, then come back and tell me if I'm exaggerating.

So that makes three people. The same amount of people in the "sack Choco regardless" brigade. What is your point?

Also for the purpose of giving your argument some fabric, please point me to some posts where they liken anti-Choco speak as akin to "treason".

[Frank Spencer Clone]

So that makes three people. The same amount of people in the "sack Choco" brigade. What is your point?

Also for the purpose of giving your argument some fabric, please point me to some posts where they liken anti-Choco speak as akin to "treason".
The point is quite simple.
Those in the ' sack Choco ' corner don't dish out personal abuse to those who question their opinion, despite being constantly accused of disloyalty to the club and having no football savvy.
As opposed to the constant stream of venomous twaddle emanating from the Williams arse lickers whenever His Lordship is brought to account for his glaringly obvious shortcomings as an AFL coach.

[Bresh]

You made the assertion, the onus is on you to drum up some proof. Not gloss over your claim with some more and more hyperbole.

Further, you complain about receiving personal abuse and then call people 'Williams arse lickers' in the very same post. I don't think there is much point continuing this discussion with you.

Obviously, regardless of the merits of your opinion, it would be preferable if you weren't subject to personal abuse. But you have reapt what you've sown to some degree (see: "Williams arse lickers").

[shaz63]

And before any of you start on us again, questions are being asked so we are replying.

If we were not constantly hassled by the same posters on here time and time again, the hijacking wouldnt continue.

So before you start blaming the same ones for responding, take a good hard look at the ones that are starting by posting smart arse comments and questions to begin with.

[Toots Hibbert]

In the legal profession, there is a term ' qualified privilege ' which, although I am not qualified in the field of law, I have enough knowledge to understand that this term covers an opinion reasonably formed on the basis of observation of factual physical evidence.
To wit - my reference to Mark Williams as a ' megalomaniac ' and a ' bully' is quite legitimate. I have observed the nervousness and gunshy body language of several of our players over a lengthy period and assessed , from other evidence and observations, that this is largely caused by Williams' treatment of them.
Also, the way in which WIlliams ascended to the coaching role and the way he seems to have the entire board under his thumb, allows the term ' megalomaniac ' to fall under qualified privilege.
The key point here is that this is all factual physical evidence
You asked me for instances of personal abuse. I've given you a couple of quick ones. Now you're seeking to justify them.

Getting back to my initial query I was asking how last night's performance could come about in light of your previous criticism. I wouldn't call Danyle Pearce's play "gunshy". He has a crack and makes mistakes. You don't see him get dragged. We saw a torpedo last night which sides would go for an entire year without doing because coaches don't like it. Williams is responsible when White and Thurstans play poorly but when they have a good game he gets no credit. The young guys last night played with freedom and initiative which you wouldn't expect from newbies coached by a bullying, megalomaniacal coach who is likely to humiliate them by sending them back to the SANFL which has been amongst your accusations.

I'm happy to acknowledge that Choco can do things better, I'm happy to consider a different coach but attacking the guy in every possible way and to the extent that he gets no credit for a flag is not tenable. Particularly when in the process our first AFL flag gets counted as lucky.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

But you have reapt what you've sown to some degree (see: "Williams arse lickers").
Garbage.
Please point out to me where my comment about ' Williams arse lickers ' contains any reference to an individual poster or any inkling that it was aimed at one particular identity.
Methinks you're a bit ignorant as to the meaning of ' personal abuse ' .

[Frank Spencer Clone]

[QUOTE]You asked me for instances of personal abuse. I've given you a couple of quick ones. Now you're seeking to justify them.
Not at all. What I set out to do was, in fact, expose the difference between personal abuse for the sake of it, and valid criticisms which can be confused with personal abuse. The gulf between the two terms is quite wide.

Getting back to my initial query I was asking how last night's performance could come about in light of your previous criticism. I wouldn't call Danyle Pearce's play "gunshy". He has a crack and makes mistakes. You don't see him get dragged. We saw a torpedo last night which sides would go for an entire year without doing because coaches don't like it. Williams is responsible when White and Thurstans play poorly but when they have a good game he gets no credit. The young guys last night played with freedom and initiative which you wouldn't expect from newbies coached by a bullying, megalomaniacal coach who is likely to humiliate them by sending them back to the SANFL which has been amongst your accusations.

Ever stopped to consider maybe he has been told he has 4 weeks to improve the results, or pack his bags?
Don't eveh try to take a crack at me about White and Thurstans. Those two players have been horribly mismanaged, and anyone who can't see that is a fool. End of story.
Maybe last night he did as he should have done two damn years ago and told the kids to just get out there and mix it up, and enjoy their footy, and to hell with the team rules.
Who knows. But if it gets backed up with another insipid, p iss weak effort next week, then you would have to start thinking.

I'm happy to acknowledge that Choco can do things better, I'm happy to consider a different coach but attacking the guy in every possible way and to the extent that he gets no credit for a flag is not tenable. Particularly when in the process our first AFL flag gets counted as lucky.
Jesus H Christ, you're worse than my Weimaraner puppy with a bone, and she makes short work of them.
The fact I give him minimal credit for the flag is based on several factors. The leadership group in 04 was predominantly consisted of Cahill protoges, for one thing. He undid a lot of Cahill's early good work in managing and trimming the fat off the list and elevated a lot of players who really should have been delisted early.
The dip in 2000, whilst due mainly to injuries to key players, was also due to the same sort of rubbish gameplan we see now. As was the poor finish to 1999, a year where we should have achieved a much higher finish.
As for the luck of the flag, it is my honest belief Geelong were in a better position to take us than Brisbane. Moot point, agreed.

[Bresh]

Garbage.
Please point out to me where my comment about ' Williams arse lickers ' contains any reference to an individual poster or any inkling that it was aimed at one particular identity.

Well, you just named three of them.

Also, in regards to this:

Those in the ' sack Choco ' corner don't dish out personal abuse to those who question their opinion, despite being constantly accused of disloyalty to the club and having no football savvy.

You didn't seem gunshy about accusing people of blind loyalty and unable to make objective opinions about Choco - see: arse lickers.

And finally, if there really has been some serious personal abuse towards you, that would be unfortunate. I haven't really seen it though, which would indicate to me that the mods must be doing at least a reasonable job of cleaning that up.

[Bresh]

Not at all. What I set out to do was, in fact, expose the difference between personal abuse for the sake of it, and valid criticisms which can be confused with personal abuse. The gulf between the two terms is quite wide.

You've failed to give Williams credit where it is due (as an aside, everyone is aware some of his shortcomings and previous failures). People don't call you out for the sake of it, when we win like we did last night, you really don't give them any options.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

[QUOTE]Well, you just named three of them. Not directly in reference to the term ' arse lickers, I didn't.





You didn't seem gunshy about accusing people of blind loyalty and unable to make objective opinions about Choco - see: arse lickers.
Fair call, but the way some people carry on, it appears as if they don't use a lot of objective thinking.
And finally, if there really has been some serious personal abuse towards you, that would be unfortunate. I haven't really seen it though, which would indicate to me that the mods must be doing at least a reasonable job of cleaning that up.
What's your definition of serious personal abuse I wonder?

[gbear]

Heya Gbear. Where ya been?

Can't stop grinning right now lol. :D :D :D

I have been around, however my time is being significantly occupied with full time uni and part time work this year. Can't wait to complete my degree and have more time on my hands. Hopefully there will be less Sunday games and more Saturday night games next season so I can get along to the games.

[gbear]

To both you and GBear. One game proves nothing. For once the team came out and played some decent football not this constant ******** game that he has been instructing them to play.

We will go back and play the chippy chippy crap game again again and be thrashed by our cross town rivals and the young guys will have the confidence knocked out of them again.

You both need a huge reality check. Choco is not the coach to take us to a premiership.


I don't think I need a reality check and that is all I am going to say on the issue. I trust that the board has the interests of the club at heart and if the youngsters continue to be developed as they are currently I will support the decisions of the board.

[Bresh]

What's your definition of serious personal abuse I wonder?

Something that makes reference to your person completely out of context with football/internet. Obviously some of you folks know eachother, so if personal barbs are used in arguments on here, it's not really on.

Conversely, if the abuse you refer to is just a bit of back-and-forth purely in this context, for example calling someone's argument or post moronic et cetera (I think all of us have done this, here and elsewhere), I think anyone throwing a tanty over that is a bit precious.

[shaz63]

I don't think I need a reality check and that is all I am going to say on the issue. I trust that the board has the interests of the club at heart and if the youngsters continue to be developed as they are currently I will support the decisions of the board.


So when they see the light and get rid of Choco you will agree with them??? Something tells me that is a crock of you know what!!!!!!!!

[portentous]

I have been around, however my time is being significantly occupied with full time uni and part time work this year. Can't wait to complete my degree and have more time on my hands. Hopefully there will be less Sunday games and more Saturday night games next season so I can get along to the games.
Good luck with it gbear. I too am hoping for more night games next year as I work most Saturdays and Sundays now. Shall we put in a joint submission to the AFL?

[gbear]

Good luck with it gbear. I too am hoping for more night games next year as I work most Saturdays and Sundays now. Shall we put in a joint submission to the AFL?

A joint submission sounds like a fantastic idea, as I have to work every Saturday and Sunday till 4.

[Paralowiepower]

I just read this thread for the first time and will get in before this thread is locked which I'm sure it will be as it looks like some people can't let things rest. I have often had a shot at the crows board for this kind of rubbish, I would just like to thank you all for now spoiling my fun because If I said that again I would look like a hypocrite.

[Paralowiepower]

A joint submission sounds like a fantastic idea, as I have to work every Saturday and Sunday till 4.
Did I tell you we are undefeated at the MCG at night :D

[Educse]

I just read this thread for the first time and will get in before this thread is locked which I'm sure it will be as it looks like some people can't let things rest. I have often had a shot at the crows board for this kind of rubbish, I would just like to thank you all for now spoiling my fun because If I said that again I would look like a hypocrite.

I agree. Let's not fight amongst ourselves like the Crows supporters.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Something that makes reference to your person completely out of context with football/internet. Obviously some of you folks know eachother, so if personal barbs are used in arguments on here, it's not really on.

Conversely, if the abuse you refer to is just a bit of back-and-forth purely in this context, for example calling someone's argument or post moronic et cetera (I think all of us have done this, here and elsewhere), I think anyone throwing a tanty over that is a bit precious.
I would define it as any example of playing the man and not the ball.
Any incidence where someone takes the thread off topic in order to ' get at ' the individual they are targeting.
I haven't seen to many examples of , as you put it, back and forth purely in context. What I have seen is a lot of extremely vitriolic, personally insulting comments which have sweet FA to do with the subject being discussed and are ,instead, a blatant attempt to cause a flame war by throwing jibes at someone over an issue that is likely to cause a hostile reaction.
The worst thing is that it is always the same perpetrators - and somehow or another, they keep getting away with it.

[Bresh]

OK, well, I haven't seen anything with much ill-toward, unless it has already been removed. Unless you're counting people clearly mucking around with "Sign Choco up for life!" remarks and whatnot. Bottom line, if you aren't a massive fan of the people that supposedly dish it out, then it shouldn't be a struggle to not dignify it with a response.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

OK, well, I haven't seen anything with much ill-toward, unless it has already been removed. Unless you're counting people clearly mucking around with "Sign Choco up for life!" remarks and whatnot. Bottom line, if you aren't a massive fan of the people that supposedly dish it out, then it shouldn't be a struggle to not dignify it with a response.
Just a couple of things on this.
The people ' clearly mucking around with ' sign Choco up for life ' - or should I say the individual - has a long track record of stirring up ill will and hostility on this forum, as well as attempting to perpetuate personal grievances by lagging reregistered account names to the admin and spraying them all around the forum so as the idiots and trolls can continue their tirades.

Bottom line? Personal abuse is supposedly against the forum rules. So it is a mystery to me how these clowns escape bans, when their targets cop them.
Something is dreadfully wrong somewhere.

[Bresh]

This is the internet. I think you care too much.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

This is the internet. I think you care too much.
No, actually I don't, but I do get a little miffed when this sort of thing goes unchecked and our hosts dish out threatening emails and PMs to the targets of the abuse.
I think that's just a little bit wrong, no?

[Pred]

No, actually I don't, but I do get a little miffed when this sort of thing goes unchecked and our hosts dish out threatening emails and PMs to the targets of the abuse.
I think that's just a little bit wrong, no?There are plenty of other sites to visit if you find it so odious.

[Bresh]

No, actually I don't, but I do get a little miffed when this sort of thing goes unchecked and our hosts dish out threatening emails and PMs to the targets of the abuse.
I think that's just a little bit wrong, no?
Sure... but I would be surprised if you haven't done something to receive those PMs, even if the treatment of posters inconsistent. So don't do anything, don't get any PMs... You say the retaliator is the one who cops it. So don't retaliate. Hopefully a bi-product of that is that we will have less threads hi-jacked by whoever.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

There are plenty of other sites to visit if you find it so odious.
Well, you've made it obvious which side of your bread is buttered - repeatedly.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Sure... but I would be surprised if you haven't done something to receive those PMs, ].
Yeah, that's what everybody thinks.
Fact is though - you're wrong.

[missionpossible]

Well, you've made it obvious which side of your bread is buttered - repeatedly.

I am guessing he butters the top side

To bloody hard to butter the bottom side

[Pinepower]

I am guessing he butters the top side

To bloody hard to butter the bottom side

Easy

Butter the top side, then turn it over so now the bottom side is buttered.
Then butter the top side so now we have our bread buttered on both sides.
Then sprinkle with cinnamon sugar, use a slide to get it off bench and pop the bread under a grill to toast ( or sandwich maker)

Just lovely

[missionpossible]

Easy

Butter the top side, then turn it over so now the bottom side is buttered.
Then butter the top side so now we have our bread buttered on both sides.
Then sprinkle with cinnamon sugar, use a slide to get it off bench and pop the bread under a grill to toast ( or sandwich maker)

Just lovely

Now you have made me bloody hungry.

[Toots Hibbert]

Now you have made me bloody hungry.
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/1927/biscuitsho7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:D

[missionpossible]

Now that is just being a pig, surely you could share.

[Toots Hibbert]

If I'd known you could have had the crumbly one.

Now I'm going off to watch the first quarter of Saturday night while having a beer. Should only take one mouthful to cleanse out the sweetness of those almond fingers.

[portentous]

Nice avatar Toots.

I prefer pizza bread;toast bread then smear it with tomato paste top with mozarella, ham, sliced tomato then pop under the griller yum!

[shaz63]

Yeah, that's what everybody thinks.
Fact is though - you're wrong.

Of course he is wrong. People on here dont seem to realise that the same ones start the flame wars by posting snide little comments which the person its directed at can only take so much before replying.

Trouble is, as soon as you reply to those tools that get away with the continual b ullsh it, the powers to be sit there and send pms to the ones that its all directed at.

We are told to put them on the ignore function. Why should we. Why dont they get warned or even better banned!

We have been told by some that we arent allowed to have an opinion regarding Choco. Why?? What happened to freedom of speech?? Yes, I will be jumped on and told that we do say what we think about Choco. What Im trying to say is, we are sent pms or emails telling us that we should get behind the club and support the coach. I support my club but Im not a Choco fan as you all know and will continue to voice my opinion of him here when needed.

So yes, we do receive pms telling us to cut the abuse but what about the once that start the wars?? They seem to get away with it everytime without as much of a slap on the wrist.

One other thing, I have been told numerous times that what is said on these boards stays on these boards. About time the people that have said this to me live up to what they preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[portentous]

Now that is just being a pig, surely you could share.
Now now mission, you just know that you wouldn't get as much as a crumb if Zade was around. :D

[dreamkillers]

Of course he is wrong. People on here dont seem to realise that the same ones start the flame wars by posting snide little comments which the person its directed at can only take so much before replying.
When what they should be doing is reporting the posts and let them be dealt with under the agreement ALL Users here consented to when becoming a member of Bigfooty.............something we still haven't seen much of despite continued accusations.

Trouble is, as soon as you reply to those tools that get away with the continual b ullsh it, the powers to be sit there and send pms to the ones that its all directed at.
Absolute utter garbage...........just because we don't discuss the actions taken in public doesn't mean warnings/suspensions/bans aren't used but given we still only average 1-2 reported posts a week I can assure you they are always dealt with when reported.

Please remember ALL deleted/edited posts can be viewed in their original format by moderators of a board and administrators of the site so the evidence is always on hand to back up the decisions made by us - and that shows BOTH sides of the argument breaking the sites rules.

We are told to put them on the ignore function. Why should we. Why dont they get warned or even better banned!
You have no idea on who has and hasn't been warned/suspended etc as we do not discuss this with other users.......your comment is just idle speculation which is nothing like the truth.

We have been told by some that we arent allowed to have an opinion regarding Choco. Why?? What happened to freedom of speech?? Yes, I will be jumped on and told that we do say what we think about Choco. What Im trying to say is, we are sent pms or emails telling us that we should get behind the club and support the coach. I support my club but Im not a Choco fan as you all know and will continue to voice my opinion of him here when needed.
No-one has said you can't have an opinion of Choco......it's when people on BOTH sides of the argument go for the petty perosnal abuse instead of discussing the facts and no matter what you say BOTH sides of the pro/anti Choco debate have been guilty of this..........

So yes, we do receive pms telling us to cut the abuse but what about the once that start the wars?? They seem to get away with it everytime without as much of a slap on the wrist.
Haven't seen you reporting many of these 'supposed' posts and those that have been reported have been dealt with............BOTH sides of the argument have been guilty of breaking the site rules and BOTH sides of the arguement are being dealt with.

One other thing, I have been told numerous times that what is said on these boards stays on these boards. About time the people that have said this to me live up to what they preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About time people on both sides of the debate GROW UP as I've had enough of the childish behaviour of people on both sides of the debate.

With this continued garbage I have NO INTEREST in being involved with this site so unless BOTH sides of the equation clean up there act I'll have no issue walking away from here and let the children continue with their juvenile tirades instead of the good footy discussion this board was known for up until this season.

[portentous]

I don't want to extend the debate, but just to support the mods here; I have been formally warned by the mods and accept that my behaviour has been inappriopriate at times. I accept my portion of the blame for what has gone on here.

Just to clarify any accusations of so-called bias, as I know that the mods don't publicly state what actions have been taken.

Now how about the mods here get some peace and the threads stay on-track? It'll no doubt help that I'm off on holidays from tomorrow and highly unlikely to return to bigfooty.

[Paralowiepower]

You should of been banned along time ago Nat :D

[Macca19]

Trouble is, as soon as you reply to those tools that get away with the continual b ullsh it, the powers to be sit there and send pms to the ones that its all directed at.

We are told to put them on the ignore function. Why should we. Why dont they get warned or even better banned!

So yes, we do receive pms telling us to cut the abuse but what about the once that start the wars?? They seem to get away with it everytime without as much of a slap on the wrist.


Quite simply, you wouldnt have any idea who we warn or suspend or what goes on off the boards here. Trying to pass off those statements as fact is simply foolish when you wouldnt know.

[*PAF]

... With this continued garbage I have NO INTEREST in being involved with this site so unless BOTH sides of the equation clean up there act I'll have no issue walking away from here and let the children continue with their juvenile tirades instead of the good footy discussion this board was known for up until this season.
DK speaketh the truth on behalf of many me thinks.
Time for this petty stuff to stop.

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~cogito76/assets/images/its-time-poster.jpg

[shaz63]

We are told to put them on the ignore function. Why should we. Why dont they get warned or even better banned!


So yes, we do receive pms telling us to cut the abuse but what about the once that start the wars?? They seem to get away with it everytime without as much of a slap on the wrist.

One other thing, I have been told numerous times that what is said on these boards stays on these boards. About time the people that have said this to me live up to what they preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Originally posted by Macca19
Quite simply, you wouldnt have any idea who we warn or suspend or what goes on off the boards here. Trying to pass off those statements as fact is simply foolish when you wouldnt know.


Where have I said in the above post of mine that its afact? Fine, I dont know who is warned or banned regarding there posting. Just read what I post before critising me again please.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

You should of been banned along time ago Nat :D
Yes, I second that, but without the smiley face.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

I don't want to extend the debate, but just to support the mods here; I have been formally warned by the mods and accept that my behaviour has been inappriopriate at times. I accept my portion of the blame for what has gone on here.

Just to clarify any accusations of so-called bias, as I know that the mods don't publicly state what actions have been taken.

Now how about the mods here get some peace and the threads stay on-track? It'll no doubt help that I'm off on holidays from tomorrow and highly unlikely to return to bigfooty.
Wow, it really comes as a big surprise that you would weigh in to defend the Nazis ( oops, sorry, mods ) , when you are one of the major troublemakers and protagonists to whom they seem to have given unlimited impunity to behave in a disruptive manner and carry on vicious personal diatribes.

People don't throw around accusations of bias for no reason. The accusations are usually made after one observes a clear and continual pattern of favouritism, or heavyhandedness, towards certain individuals, usually for some ridiculous and flimsy reason.
The people concerned can deny the allegations all they like, but a quick search of the archives wiill render any such denial completely invalid.

It's a shame that there is so much of this twaddle on BF - especially on this board. Presumably we are all passionate Port people and it's this that led us to the site.
But when you've got an emperor and his generals who ignore the cracks in the dam wall until they become gushing great floods, it's inevitable that the people below will perish in the deluge.

Addendum: Now for a little memory test. Who was it who took this thread on about page three from a thread about predictions for Saturday night's match, to a seven page slanging match, with yet another snide remark aimed at another poster?
Oh, of course, that's right.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Quite simply, you wouldnt have any idea who we warn or suspend or what goes on off the boards here. Trying to pass off those statements as fact is simply foolish when you wouldnt know.
Macca, with all due respect, I think it's pretty clear that you don't need a Cambridge degree to work out what goes on - or more accurately, doesn't - behind the scenes. When the same posters post the same abusive twaddle aimed at the same people, day in, day out, for months and months, I reckon it's pretty fair to say that the mods fail to take the issue seriously and act on it.
To wit - a simple question. Would you be so kind as to indulge me with a simple answer?
Are Northbhoy and Angry Dragon permanently banned from this board?

[Sandola]

Is there any chance at all that we could have some dedicated thread for all complaints/criticisms of the workings of this board? Or something like Bay 13? Or *paf's OT idea?

Then all discussion about how the thread is run or how any particular posters are behaving or misbehaving could go on the dedicated thread, and the rest of the threads could stay, loosely, on topic.

Possibly would be more work for the mods, though, having to move posts/threads to the proper location. That's not good. In any case, please put me down as supporting ANY move the mods decide to make to stop this OT stuff ruining every single thread here.

[blackdiamond]

Is there any chance at all that we could have some dedicated thread for all complaints/criticisms of the workings of this board? Or something like Bay 13? Or *paf's OT idea?

Then all discussion about how the thread is run or how any particular posters are behaving or misbehaving could go on the dedicated thread, and the rest of the threads could stay, loosely, on topic.

Possibly would be more work for the mods, though, having to move posts/threads to the proper location. That's not good. In any case, please put me down as supporting ANY move the mods decide to make to stop this OT stuff ruining every single thread here.

Don't worry, the wheels are in motion.

[dreamkillers]

To wit - a simple question. Would you be so kind as to indulge me with a simple answer?
Are Northbhoy and Angry Dragon permanently banned from this board?

Nope as they have only committed 2 offences since we reset everyone's access at the beginning of the season..........that said we have banned a few trolls from this board specifically.

[Macca19]

Macca, with all due respect, I think it's pretty clear that you don't need a Cambridge degree to work out what goes on - or more accurately, doesn't - behind the scenes.

I think its pretty clear that you and shaz have no idea what you are on about. The facts are, how many warnings have we given you on the Port board? How many suspensions? How many bannings. We all know the answer to that.

[portly]

Personally, I like my home-made pesto on a warm slice of buttered home-made bread. Warming, and calming.

In fact, I think I'll have some now!

[*PAF]

Personally, I like my home-made pesto on a warm slice of buttered home-made bread. Warming, and calming.

In fact, I think I'll have some now!
I prefer a bit of stinky King Island Blue myself. Yum, I think I'll have another one. :)

[*PAF]

... Yum, I think I'll have another one. :)
Hey, I'm a poet and I didn't even know it. :p :o

[Macca19]

Personally, I like my home-made pesto on a warm slice of buttered home-made bread. Warming, and calming.

In fact, I think I'll have some now!


mmmm, nothing beats pesto!!

[Pinepower]

Personally, I like my home-made pesto on a warm slice of buttered home-made bread. Warming, and calming.

In fact, I think I'll have some now!

Sometimes when I need to indulge myself when making my own bread I add into the mixture capsicum, cheese, onion, olives garlic, herbs of any kind, mettwurst.

I wait for the dough to be mixed first then grab it out and knead all this in.

Then I make any excuse to be around the kitchen while baking.

Oh boy it is a meal, great with home made soup ( or just by itself)

[*PAF]

:thumbsu:

[wharfie_1870]

This thread has really gone to the dogs :)

[missionpossible]

Sometimes when I need to indulge myself ......

I was very worried where you were going with this comment

[Paralowiepower]

OT; It's nearly cricket season.

[Frank Spencer Clone]

I think its pretty clear that you and shaz have no idea what you are on about. The facts are, how many warnings have we given you on the Port board? How many suspensions? How many bannings. We all know the answer to that.
Just don't get it, do you? Just don't get it.

[Natman]

mmmm, nothing beats pesto!!

"I don't get pesto".

[Rory]

OT; It's nearly cricket season.
Plus A-League and NFL


offseason isnt looking so bad after all :) :thumbsu:

[Sandola]

Personally, I like my home-made pesto on a warm slice of buttered home-made bread. Warming, and calming.

In fact, I think I'll have some now!
Recipe, Portly. Recipe NOW.

[noddy]

Think i'm gonna like this thread. :)


Substance is a minor issue & going off-topic looks like being the norm. :thumbsu: