View Full Version : Brad Ottens.
S "Thinks He's Daicos" J
21 Aug 2006, 23:38
I haven't been a fan of the big fella this year. I defended him last year, and this year he has been on the park the whole year, but I have a couple of concerns:
Is it just me, or does he get to all the contests, fly for the mark, do 90% of the effort just to spill it at the last second - ALL THE TIME?
If someone says he is a beautiful kick for goal again, I might explode. I agree he does have a textbook kicking action, which leads to a straight kick. But how many of his kicks go STRAIGHT through for a behind or on the full. When he took a mark at the city end on Saturday (15m out in the pocket), my mate said "Watch him put it on the full now". And he did.To me, both the above show that he has enough skill, but possibily not the greatest mental strength to 'finish', whether it be the mark or the goal.
Thoughts?
And has he been worth it?
Mr Sensitive
21 Aug 2006, 23:48
i'm also sick of hearing about what a great kick he is... but i disagree with you about the rest... Otto has been the only forward who looks remotely dangerous and can hold his marks. He's grown in stature as the seasons gone on, especially after the mid year break. Hopefully next year Otto can play primarily in the goal square, Mooney can stop giving out cheap shots and actually play footy and Hawkins/Ablett can rotate up forward.
Rosella
21 Aug 2006, 23:49
Over the last few weeks he has looked a little tired, but he has played every game this season. He leads the club for contested marks (and we lead the comp for contested marks). So I think you may be judging his marking on the last few weeks rather than over the whole. His kicking for goal is less than it was earlier in the year
I think he has been worth it - we didn't have to give up a great deal for him, really
Was it worth it? Well Ottens has played almost every game, Moloney + Meyer together have played how many?
At this stage it was worth it - and unless Meyer develops into a very fine footballer (which I am not at all convinced about him) I think it was well worth it.
Sure Moloney has considerable strength and talent, but if asked would I do it all again? Absolutely, Moloney wouldn't win us a flag. With good delivery, Otto could kick 50 - 70 goals IMO, which could be the difference between a Grand Final and another Semi Final.
I haven't been a fan of the big fella this year. I defended him last year, and this year he has been on the park the whole year, but I have a couple of concerns:
Are you the nuff nuff suggesting on another site that Dog should be captain ?
CatmanForever
22 Aug 2006, 00:26
Really I find this thread offensive. Ottens has been in our top 5 players this year. He has rucked pretty well. He has played every game. He has been the only forward to actually show some consistent form. He is often double teamed by the opposition which makes it difficult for him to mark the ball. I think he should of kicked a few more goals than he has. Maybe his kicking has let him down at times, but he has hardly been the worst.
You people are always waiting to criticise otto at any opportunity for no real reason other than he was a trade to the club.
Still drops too many marks.... that he should really take.
Misses a few too many... cant really blame him as the GFC kicking curse has come into effect.
Needs fitness...always puffing away.
However with a very good pre-season and not a cotton-wool job I reckon he'll have a good 2007.
S "Thinks He's Daicos" J
22 Aug 2006, 00:50
Otto has been the only forward who looks remotely dangerous and can hold his marks
Really I find this thread offensive. Ottens has been in our top 5 players this year. He has rucked pretty well. He has played every game. He has been the only forward to actually show some consistent form. He is often double teamed by the opposition which makes it difficult for him to mark the ball. I think he should of kicked a few more goals than he has. Maybe his kicking has let him down at times, but he has hardly been the worst.
You people are always waiting to criticise otto at any opportunity for no real reason other than he was a trade to the club.
So I think you may be judging his marking on the last few weeks rather than over the whole. His kicking for goal is less than it was earlier in the year
OK, I agree, in the place of Kingsley he has become our No. 1 key forward this year. He has had a reasonable year, double-teamed at time, (GRR, THOMPSON'S DOING). But he frustrates me - I think because he seems to be on the verge of tearing the game apart almost every week, but then he gets to positions in a marking contest that other blokes don't, just to drop them, and also miss goals.
I'm not trying to be negative - but can he find that top gear that he is promising?
And I'm not judging it on the past few weeks - I've seen every match this year.
Are you the nuff nuff suggesting on another site that Dog should be captain ?
I'm not a Nuff Nuff. Nor a Jub Jub. Nor would want Johnno as captain.
Ottens seems like he is carrying a bit too much weight to me. Has anyone else noticed that?
He has a good kicking action, if he can drop 8 kg, and lift his work rate there is no reason he couldn't be in the vain of Richo or Hall in 07.
Its a confidence thing i think. Once he has a full preseason you will see otto take those marks more often and kick more accuratly. That being said we need a supporting ruck for him because im sick of seeing him play 50/50. He really needs to be 70/30 or 80/20.
thegerman
22 Aug 2006, 08:45
i'm also sick of hearing about what a great kick he is... but i disagree with you about the rest... Otto has been the only forward who looks remotely dangerous and can hold his marks. He's grown in stature as the seasons gone on, especially after the mid year break. Hopefully next year Otto can play primarily in the goal square, Mooney can stop giving out cheap shots and actually play footy and Hawkins/Ablett can rotate up forward.
Have to agree, he has been the only tall forward to look menacing all year. Sure his kicking has been off at times, but he is working extremely hard. The weekend he also had 21 taps to go with his stats.
Just getting into the ruck, then trying to hold down a key post is going to be difficult and I believe he has done exceptionally well.
Dont you hate pants?
22 Aug 2006, 11:28
I think he has been well worth it. Yes, after all the hard work he does, he occasionly drops the mark but you cannot expect him to take every grab that comes in especially if it is bombed in on top of his head. His role is done, the ball is on the ground where the crumbers should be. Sure, last year was a right off due to injury (as was half the list) but this year he has also spent a fair bit of time with rucking duties (which I think he has done an okay job of) due to kings injuries and Blakes lack of abilty and he can still go down forward, take a contested grab (who else in our forward line is capable of taking a contested grab??) or two and kick a goal or two a game. Not bad for a ruckman. Next year injures allowing, hopefully he can spend more time forward- has shown in parts this year when the midfield looks for him and actually hits him on the chest he is a dangerous player.
TheTimeCometh
22 Aug 2006, 11:49
if the whole team was winning, even an extra 3W's this year, then this querie would not exist...
LifeSpan-Void
22 Aug 2006, 12:30
assuming he doesn't get hurt in the last two games, this will have been the first full H/A season for Ottens since 2001. All things considered, He's been great this year.
catempire
22 Aug 2006, 12:51
If at the start of the year, you had been told Brad Ottens will play every game for the club, he’ll kick 25-30 goals, lead the hitout stats for the club by over 100 and lead the contested marks stats for the club (and be 9th in the league), I think every one of us would have taken it.
Boundary-Rider
22 Aug 2006, 13:09
My review of Otto is positive.
Has been our best ruckman all year and also a strong target for the small forwards to get to his feet. if he does not mark the ball at least he brings the ball to the ground for our small brigade.
Has been a focal point up forward as the best defender will have to go to him and thus all other forwards move down one defender. Needs support and this will occur with the new season. Nate or Tom Hawkins will benefit from his efforts.
Tall forwards Otto N Ablett and Tom H
Small forwards Chapman, GAJ S Johnson
rotations prismall, mackie, king, mooney, would prefer mooney on the ball roaming the centre corridor from half back to half forward. He can break lines and is as tough as they come just need to work on his mental side, stop cheap shots and play the game.
Otto's ruckwork is excellent and he mades a difference when going onto the ball, generally taps to over advantage and makes a strong contest, yes he does go to ground too much but at least he is being proactive on the field.
Forward top1-2
Ruck 1
Contested marks 1
Overall a good year not great but a soild year with a full preseason will get better. Would like to see a settled structure up forward and give the three talls some time together to develop cohesion.
The result is he was worth the chase and starting to see he wants the ball, watch his plays he is attacking the ball strongly leading out of the square. Agree if at the start of the year we said we wanted 25 - 30 goals from Otto and lead our ruck brigade and take the most contested marks we would all have been very happy
Just need our midfield to be positive and give the three talls a chance get it in early and see the results
nananana catman
22 Aug 2006, 14:00
Very solid, and very important.
Imagine if he wasn't on the park for us atm! The forward line and ruck stocks would be threadbare!
Partridge
22 Aug 2006, 14:35
If at the start of the year, you had been told Brad Ottens will play every game for the club, he’ll kick 25-30 goals, lead the hitout stats for the club by over 100 and lead the contested marks stats for the club (and be 9th in the league), I think every one of us would have taken it.
Agreed. Our position on the ladder is not Ottens' fault. If you want to blame players for our predicament, you could start with Mooney getting suspended 4 times, Ling being played woefully out of position as a playmaker instead of a tagger, Kingsley being selected week after week when he was not kicking any goals, or a lazy overrated toad like James Kelly being selected at all.
This year has been a disaster for many reasons. But Brad Ottens has not been one of them.
nananana catman
22 Aug 2006, 14:39
Agreed. Our position on the ladder is not Ottens' fault. If you want to blame players for our predicament, you could start with Mooney getting suspended 4 times, Ling being played woefully out of position as a playmaker instead of a tagger, Kingsley being selected week after week when he was not kicking any goals, or a lazy overrated toad like James Kelly being selected at all.
This year has been a disaster for many reasons. But Brad Ottens has not been one of them.
I dont think it is Kent and Kellys fault for being selected, and Lings for being played out of position :rolleyes:
I think those mistakes lie with the coaching staff...
Partridge
22 Aug 2006, 14:43
I dont think it is Kent and Kellys fault for being selected, and Lings for being played out of position :rolleyes:
I think those mistakes lie with the coaching staff...
Definitely. Well said. It's not coincidence Ling's return to form has been since they've played him solely as a tagger again.
Most of this season's woes I directly attribute to Thompson.
If Brad Ottens has a full and uniterrupted pre-season, I think that he will only get better.
And alot of the reasons why he doesn't hold all of his marks is because of the way that the ball is delivered to him. It is either at his feet or 10 feet over his head. We all have to remember that this is a big unit we are talking about, 6ft 7in I think. Not so easy to mark the ball at your feet, and then try and retrieve the ball yourself. (needs the help of Chappy or Little Gazza to get the crumbs)
Unwritten_Law
22 Aug 2006, 15:10
Ottens does drop a few dollies but he generally always brings the ball to ground in the contested situations. It is hardly his fault, that when we do bother to kick it in long to him, he has to beat 4 opponents and when he does negate the contest and bring it to ground the opposition use the numbers to pick it off and run it out of defence because there isn't a Geelong player within 30 metres.
How hard is it to anchor Gaz, Chappy or Stokes at his feet for the crumb yet it never ever happens. It is the most obvious and most frustrating thing when you are sitting back watching the game. Which again is another Thompson, and Hinkley, issue.
Ottens does drop a few dollies but he generally always brings the ball to ground in the contested situations. It is hardly his fault, that when we do bother to kick it in long to him, he has to beat 4 opponents and when he does negate the contest and bring it to ground the opposition use the numbers to pick it off and run it out of defence because there isn't a Geelong player within 30 metres.
How hard is it to anchor Gaz, Chappy or Stokes at his feet for the crumb yet it never ever happens. It is the most obvious and most frustrating thing when you are sitting back watching the game. Which again is another Thompson, and Hinkley, issue.
Totally agree with all of that. Due to his style of play which is mainly bustling in the goalsquare rather than on the lead he is constantly competing with a loose man dropping back into the marking contest. Combine this with the fact that he is held 100% of the time during the marking contest and not given a free means that he really does have to work bloody hard for every grab he takes.
Two things need to happen for our forward line to fire and the first is to ensure that there is not a loose man playing back (exactly what happened in the Saints game). This leaves Otto one out, a situation that will either end in a mark or the ball brought to ground (vary rarely beaten in the air).
The second as pointed out before is have someone front and square. FFS if we're going to bomb it long to him get someone to crumb the ball if it hits the ground. It's great that Gaz & Chappy have the ability to create opportunities up the ground but one of them needs to be near Otto when he's one out. The amount of times this year alone when the ball spills from a contest and is simply swept away by the opposition back pocket is rediculous.
If these two simple things can be done you will see exactly what impact Otto can have on a game. He has been serviceable in his time at the cattery without being outstanding but let him play one out with a crumber close by and reap the rewards that we rightly deserve.
It was the same thing went on years ago when Gary Snr was at FF. He was always double or triple teamed and yet there were no small blokes feeding off him. Would have loved to see just Gaz and Ronnie Burns inside the 50 metre arc. They would have created havoc.
jacross
22 Aug 2006, 16:55
you could start with Mooney getting suspended 4 times,
How many games did that lose us Partridge?
I'll give you a hint, it's not 1, 2, 3, or 4.
Partridge
22 Aug 2006, 17:45
How many games did that lose us Partridge?
I'll give you a hint, it's not 1, 2, 3, or 4.
I would hardly have known that. I suppose Scarlett's suspension didn't matter (we lost both games), or Bartel's (we lost to St.Kilda).
Fact is no senior players should be getting suspended full stop. And 4 times in 1 season by 1 player is totally unacceptable. But the bigger problem is overall discipline. If Mooney is touted as any kind of leader you have to set correct examples. Call me strange but getting rubbed out 4 times doesn't exactly do that.
And Mooney getting suspended did have a disruptive influence. It further disrupted an already fractured and unsettled forward line which is one of the big reasons why we haven't performed this year.
Can you imagine King and Otto having a full preseason........We should have the best ruck combo in the comp 2007
jacross
22 Aug 2006, 20:56
Yeah well I say bring on the fractures if it means wins.
You are making a good point with overall discipline. I absolve you of your sins partridge.
Rockford
24 Aug 2006, 12:25
Otto has been great this year, and is constantly improving. He is only 26 and I think he's got his best years to come at FF and he does the job in the ruck. He'll be massive for the Cats in years to come.
Also, I saw him after the open day earlier this year and he stood in the car park for close to an hour, talked to everyone and signed autographs for an ever increasing group of kids.
GO CATS!
If Brad plays the remaining two games this season, it'll be his first full season since 2001. This, coupled with (hopefully) a full pre-season, will see him absolutely fire next year.
Has shown some amazing glimpses this year (v Fremantle, Brisbane etc) but has also been very solid in both the forward line and ruck.
He'll never be a 70+ goal forward but if he can keep up his 2-odd goal per match ratio plus drop into the ruck, he will be a major key to the team's success over the next few years.
catcozmo
24 Aug 2006, 13:17
I agree with the fact that if at the start of the year we were told he would have the stats he has had so far we all would have taken it, but i also recongise the fact that we are seeing what is capable of it is frustrating to see him not always achieve it.
Ie comes out takes strong contested grab almost killing bolton and then kicks the goal, but then later on drops a couple of marks when clearly had best position and would be expected to mark it.
But i think that with the full pre-season, and more confidence gained from this year, he should be very good next year, and will hopefully start taking all these marks that he drops sometimes, but blokes like Fev or Llyod always take.
I also dont really want to see, or think we will see Tomhawk and Nablett playing a lot in the same foward line next year.
unless its vfl.
coz Nablett still needs to commitment to really wanting to play AFL, while Tomhawk will only be a first year player so cant expect much from them.
a foward line of Otto, Mooney and one of Nablett or Tomhawk along with Chap, Gaz, and Johno would be very nice next year, with Nablett and Tomhakw to start playing as the two key targets in 3 years time.
My5t3r10u5
24 Aug 2006, 14:15
Most of the discussion about Otto suggests that people see him as a key forward who can occasionally play in the ruck. I think he is actually the opposite - a ruckman who can play forward. Ideally (assuming we have the likes of Nath or Hawkins stepping up to a key forward position) I would much rather see Otto played mainly in the ruck with the occasional foray forward. My reason for this is that I think Otto is a fantastic ruckman but more importantly is able to take contested marks around the ground (something we haven't seen too much of from Kingy) and we need ruckmen who can contribute more than just contesting hitouts.
Whaddayathink?
Most of the discussion about Otto suggests that people see him as a key forward who can occasionally play in the ruck. I think he is actually the opposite - a ruckman who can play forward. Ideally (assuming we have the likes of Nath or Hawkins stepping up to a key forward position) I would much rather see Otto played mainly in the ruck with the occasional foray forward. My reason for this is that I think Otto is a fantastic ruckman but more importantly is able to take contested marks around the ground (something we haven't seen too much of from Kingy) and we need ruckmen who can contribute more than just contesting hitouts.
Whaddayathink?
otto is one of the best, if not the best tap out player in the league. The direction he gets on the ball and accuracy is superb.
costanza23
24 Aug 2006, 19:26
Has anyone seen his stats when he was our No.1 ruckman earlier in the year when King was out? He didn't kick many goals, but he got between 20-30 hitouts a game. If (yes if) Nab and Tom are firing up forward in the next few years and Kingy's retired, Otto has to play ruck more. Although I love his crashing marks at FF, I really like him in the ruck.
Has been a very good player for us this year, should get in the Top 5 for the Best & Fairest at the club this year.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=10&pid1=240&tid2=10&pid2=335
That might be some assistance
My5t3r10u5
25 Aug 2006, 10:07
Great site Rizzo and interesting stats. Be nice if you could separate Otto's stats for when he was rucking vs playing forward. I suspect he gets much more of the ball when rucking. It's a bit like comparing the great man's goal kicking record to Lockett or Dunstall when he played most of his footy wing or half-forward.