If Thompson doesn't coach us next year...

[d_henderson1810]

I like Mark Thompson. He seems like a nice guy. I think though that maybe he is too nice, and may not make hard decisions that need to be made to make us a premiership club (e.g. off-load players). There has been talk that Thompson may not coach us next year. I'd like him to, but if he doesn't, I have someone who may be an adequate replacement , and may be available next year...Denis Pagan.

Why Pagan? For the following reasons:

(1) He can make tough decisions: He had no trouble off-loading players, even club veterans like Wayne Schwass when he was at the Kangaroos. He also knows who to play and where to play them.

(2) He is a disciplinarian. At the Kangaroos, he was known for running a tight ship. He may know just how to handle Cameron Mooney's constant anger problems, and would discipline him within the club accordingly.

(3) He is a premiership coach. He took the Kangaroos to two flags, so he knows what having a team play well on Grand Final day is all about.

(4) He would instill leadership, and make players accountable. The Kangaroos were a well-organised unit, and looked out for each other.

(5) He could use the Pagan's paddock gameplan for us. Instead of handballing incessantly and kicking sideways, backwards etc, he could order the ball to be kicked straight down forward into the waiting arms of Ottens, Mooney and Tom Hawkins.

There are other reasons too. I know that he has failed at Carlton, but Carlton don't have the players. Geelong has a lot more talent, but lack discipline and leadership. I know that he will cost a lot, but we aren't playing any players massive amounts, so we can afford to pay for a more expensive coach.

Thompson will probably stay, and make the necessary changes. I hope so. But if he doesn't, we could do a lot worse than approach Denis Pagan, especially if Carlton let him go (and let's face it, after three spoons in four years, that could happen).

[hyperswivel]

From someone on the outside, Pagan would appear a backward step.
He has lost the respect of the AFL fraternity. He is a non-entity in the coaching world, far removed from what he was in decades gone by.
I'll reserve my opinion on Thompson as I certainly do not know enough about him or his workings with the club to have formulated one. I will say that there are some very talented coaches getting around in the VFL and in assistant AFL positions that would be more than up to the task. Ex Falcons coach Damien Christensen would be ready in a few years I reckon.

[worthogs]

From someone on the outside, Pagan would appear a backward step.
He has lost the respect of the AFL fraternity. He is a non-entity in the coaching world, far removed from what he was in decades gone by.
I'll reserve my opinion on Thompson as I certainly do not know enough about him or his workings with the club to have formulated one. I will say that there are some very talented coaches getting around in the VFL and in assistant AFL positions that would be more than up to the task. Ex Falcons coach Damien Christensen would be ready in a few years I reckon.


Please state facts where Pagan has lost respect. He has a bunch of duds but keeps them competative. Add a player like Goddard from the Saints in there and others who they lost through cheating and Pagan would stack up


FFS we dont need another 1st time coach at Geelong we have a history of them and to no avail
Thompson
Ayres
Blight (if you ignore 16 or so games at North as Capt coach 8 years earlier)
Devine

You have to go back to Hafey in the 80s to get someone with experience at the club and we shafted him.

Pagan can coach and is respected but would not come anyway.

[DBAH0]

FFS we dont need another 1st time coach at Geelong we have a history of them and to no avail
Tell that to the likes of West Coast, Adelaide etc. who both have 1st time coaches in Craig and Worsfold and have their teams on top of the ladder.

Cresswell or Pyke would be good choices as a replacement for Bomber. Don't want Pagan, and I think the game has changed a lot since he won those premierships, and his coaching methods haven't.

[ripitup27]

Tell that to the likes of West Coast, Adelaide etc. who both have 1st time coaches in Craig and Worsfold and have their teams on top of the ladder.

Cresswell or Pyke would be good choices as a replacement for Bomber. Don't want Pagan, and I think the game has changed a lot since he won those premierships, and his coaching methods haven't.

McKenna and Longmire sound good too.

[thegerman]

Tell that to the likes of West Coast, Adelaide etc. who both have 1st time coaches in Craig and Worsfold and have their teams on top of the ladder.

Cresswell or Pyke would be good choices as a replacement for Bomber. Don't want Pagan, and I think the game has changed a lot since he won those premierships, and his coaching methods haven't.

Great post. However if the job is available !! We haven't lost our coach, so stick by him. 7 from last 10 is good, let him lead us for the remainder of his contract.

Pagan is an ol timer and isn't required at GFC. Guys like Cresswell have really impressed me, especially due to our rising midfield performance whilst he was here and the lack of skills since his departure.

We don't need to sack the head coach, we need new skills coaches. That is reality, our skills and ability have dropped off. Therefore the midfield and forward coaches have to go, IMO.

[thehoff]

(2) He is a disciplinarian. At the Kangaroos, he was known for running a tight ship. He may know just how to handle Cameron Mooney's constant anger problems, and would discipline him within the club accordingly.



You are right. He is a disciplinarian but did'nt he already get rid of Cam Mooney once? What makes you think he would be able to kerb his agression this time? He may will discard him again.

IMO Dennis would be a step backwards. His best seems to be behhind him and seem to have lost passion. I also beleive his coaching style suits the old style game. I.e. Long kicks, contested situations, pack marks and 50m+ goals.

[Jack-Packenham]

(2) He is a disciplinarian. At the Kangaroos, he was known for running a tight ship. He may know just how to handle Cameron Mooney's constant anger problems, and would discipline him within the club accordingly.


So was Gary Ayres.

[worthogs]

So was Gary Ayres.

Subtle difference Pagan can Coach Ayres knows how to kill a Team

[Partridge]

From someone on the outside, Pagan would appear a backward step.
He has lost the respect of the AFL fraternity. He is a non-entity in the coaching world, far removed from what he was in decades gone by.
I'll reserve my opinion on Thompson as I certainly do not know enough about him or his workings with the club to have formulated one. I will say that there are some very talented coaches getting around in the VFL and in assistant AFL positions that would be more than up to the task. Ex Falcons coach Damien Christensen would be ready in a few years I reckon.

Agreed. If ever the doctrine "players make coaches" has been illustrated, it's with Pagan. One absolute champion at North and a very good team delivered 2 premierships. A not too good team at Carlton has delivered 1 wooden spoon and may well be another. Pagan might have had his strengths, but recruiting Mick Martyn so he could escort him to 300 games was a disgrace. Given that his rebuilding at Carlton has been so-so at best, I'd think there are better options around.

Personally, I'd go with a newcomer and give him carte blanche to crack the whip and get things running properly. We shall see.

[tommahawk_07]

2 words boys: ken hinkley


look no further...

[Partridge]

2 words boys: ken hinkley


look no further...

You reckon? He's the forward line coach and our forwards haven't exactly set the world on fire. Who knows, maybe he can do it.

[year of the cat]

2 words boys: ken hinkley


look no further...

Will be lucky to retain his spot as assistant coach let alone be seen as a legitimate candidate for the main gig..

[tommahawk_07]

You reckon? He's the forward line coach and our forwards haven't exactly set the world on fire. Who knows, maybe he can do it.

Will be lucky to retain his spot as assistant coach let alone be seen as a legitimate candidate for the main gig...

thats coz he hasnt got a key forward to base his plan around. when the tomahawk comes in things will sort themselves out. hinkley is a gun coach ask anyone that knows anything around geelong football. its easy to sit in the outer and say "our forward lines no good must mean hinkleys no good" but when you hear the man speak and get fired up it really is inspiring...

year of the cat...what would u base this on??

[year of the cat]

Only that there are sure to be several scape-goats at the end of the season and if Thompson retains his position it follows that there will be some changes to the assistant coaching panel. You would think that Lovell will almost certainly go in view of how poorly our midfield have perfomed and Hinkley would have to be also looked at very carefully as well.

When he was "special comments" man on K-rock he was impressive - clear and well organised ideas. However, I wonder if another candidate who is better credentialled (i.e. actually played in the forward line) may be looked at.

Again nothing personal against Special K but changes have to be made.

[Unwritten_Law]

We cleared the backroom staff out completely 2 years ago - hasn't worked.

Hatchet job on the head job is now required in addition. Shake the place up and knock them into gear.

[chapmanmagic35]

Whilst I don't think Pagan will ever coach the cats, the people who suggest he wouldn't be good are dreaming.

The man is a sensational coach.

[d_henderson1810]

Tell that to the likes of West Coast, Adelaide etc. who both have 1st time coaches in Craig and Worsfold and have their teams on top of the ladder.

Cresswell or Pyke would be good choices as a replacement for Bomber. Don't want Pagan, and I think the game has changed a lot since he won those premierships, and his coaching methods haven't.


I wouldn't say that Neil Craig is a first-time coach exactly. He is in AFL, but he has years of experience in coaching in SANFL.

[Bluebear]

Agreed. If ever the doctrine "players make coaches" has been illustrated, it's with Pagan. One absolute champion at North and a very good team delivered 2 premierships. A not too good team at Carlton has delivered 1 wooden spoon and may well be another. Pagan might have had his strengths, but recruiting Mick Martyn so he could escort him to 300 games was a disgrace.

Thought I must have been on the CFC board with all this Pagan chatter - makes interesting reading, but just neede to correct one error.
Martyn was recruited for one reason only - to protect the young bodies of Thornton and Livingston from being mauled by the Gorrilas - Thompson, Roccas, Brown etc.
He was a body gaurd period. It worked for Thornton, unfortunatley Livo is mentally scarred from his experience and is shaking in the corner somewhere.
Back to your biz.

[d_henderson1810]

Great post. However if the job is available !! We haven't lost our coach, so stick by him. 7 from last 10 is good, let him lead us for the remainder of his contract.

Pagan is an ol timer and isn't required at GFC. Guys like Cresswell have really impressed me, especially due to our rising midfield performance whilst he was here and the lack of skills since his departure.

We don't need to sack the head coach, we need new skills coaches. That is reality, our skills and ability have dropped off. Therefore the midfield and forward coaches have to go, IMO.

There are three or four people posting to pick a young guy as coach. Except for Roos this year, look at a lot of the premiership coaches, how many have won a flag in their first coaching job, or their first couple of years at the club. The average AFL premiership coach is usually mid-40's, has a lot of football and life experience, and has usually coached losing teams previously (read Sheedy, Pagan, Malthouse, Matthews, Blight etc). Neil Craig even fits this catergory, based on his years in SANFL.

[d_henderson1810]

You are right. He is a disciplinarian but did'nt he already get rid of Cam Mooney once? What makes you think he would be able to kerb his agression this time? He may will discard him again.

IMO Dennis would be a step backwards. His best seems to be behhind him and seem to have lost passion. I also beleive his coaching style suits the old style game. I.e. Long kicks, contested situations, pack marks and 50m+ goals.

Getting rid of Mooney had nothing to do with his agression. When Leigh Colbert went to the Roos, they tried to shaft Brady Rawlings (who couldn't get a game) to Geelong. The Cats wanted a premiership player, so they gave us Mooney, who was the most expendible, and only played in the '99 GF because McCartney was suspended. It was to get a lot by giving little, not because of aggression.

[d_henderson1810]

thats coz he hasnt got a key forward to base his plan around. when the tomahawk comes in things will sort themselves out. hinkley is a gun coach ask anyone that knows anything around geelong football. its easy to sit in the outer and say "our forward lines no good must mean hinkleys no good" but when you hear the man speak and get fired up it really is inspiring...

year of the cat...what would u base this on??

Ken Hinkley should never have been our forward coach. Where did Hinkley play his best football? As a defender. He was a forward at Fitzroy at the start of his career, but at Geelong was one of our best defenders. Maybe that's why our forwards aren't accurate at goal. They've got a defender teaching them. He should be the backline coach. Maybe he could teach Josh Hunt to stick to his man once this century.

[DBAH0]

I wouldn't say that Neil Craig is a first-time coach exactly. He is in AFL, but he has years of experience in coaching in SANFL.
But there's also a difference in being a senior coach in the SANFL, and being one in the AFL.

John Longmire is coaching the 2's up in Sydney (correct me if I'm wrong please Swans fans). Does that make him more qualified than a Darren Cresswell who would know the strengths and weaknesses of the Geelong players already?

[hyperswivel]

So what was wrong with Damien Christensen?
Coached a couple of todays stars when with the Falcons. Now doing as well as he can with a learning side in the VFL. Also played a few games for The Cats if I remember correctly.

[Partridge]

Thought I must have been on the CFC board with all this Pagan chatter - makes interesting reading, but just neede to correct one error.
Martyn was recruited for one reason only - to protect the young bodies of Thornton and Livingston from being mauled by the Gorrilas - Thompson, Roccas, Brown etc.
He was a body gaurd period. It worked for Thornton, unfortunatley Livo is mentally scarred from his experience and is shaking in the corner somewhere.
Back to your biz.

Now it's my turn. That comment was based on very reasoned (and separate) opinions of 4 diehard Carlton supporters I know. Of course what would they know.

[d_henderson1810]

Why get rid of one inexperienced coach to get another?

I think that our next coach should be high-profile, who knows about winning and can bring out something extra. I don't rate newer coaches or assistants in the same light as senior coaches with years of experience. Why do you think that Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade were so sought after? Because they offer experience. Name one recent coach who coached the team to the premiership in his first year?

If we are just going to get another first-club coach, we may as well stick with Bomba. Otherwise, only a marketable, seasoned coach can do what is necessary to take us to the next step.

[lowbo]

I hear if Bomber takes us to a premiership next year, Skeppersap will do a nude run around Kardinia park.

[DBAH0]

Why get rid of one inexperienced coach to get another?

I think that our next coach should be high-profile, who knows about winning and can bring out something extra. I don't rate newer coaches or assistants in the same light as senior coaches with years of experience. Why do you think that Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade were so sought after? Because they offer experience. Name one recent coach who coached the team to the premiership in his first year?

If we are just going to get another first-club coach, we may as well stick with Bomba. Otherwise, only a marketable, seasoned coach can do what is necessary to take us to the next step.
Bomber has been coaching us for 7 seasons. I would hardly call him inexperienced.

But how many Wallaces and Eades are out there, and available right at this minute? None basically, unless you wanted to count Pagan, who I don't consider to be a top coach.

How many coaches are going to win a premiership in their 1st season as coach, no matter if they're experienced or not?

Just because someone like Pagan has experience, doesn't mean that he'll be a better choice than a Darren Cresswell.

[The Fireman]

I hear if Bomber takes us to a premiership next year, Skeppersap will do a nude run around Kardinia park.
:D :D There will be nothing to see.