View Full Version : do we really need spida?
spotthedot
27 Aug 2006, 11:36
a short and sharp question...i have been overseas for a few weeks so havent seen our games...we have been winning so cambo and max must be doing alright...do we really need spida?
Thaihawk
27 Aug 2006, 11:42
If Spida stays he will greatly assist Max's learning. On the other hand what kind of trade would we get for him. If Sydney really want him the balls in their court to broker a deal that suits us.
I can't see Spida wanting to play for the blues, so IMO the PSD draft is out. It's up to the swans.
Let's wait and see!
philhawk
27 Aug 2006, 12:20
I think we'll definitely be looking to trade Spida and then offload the pick we recieve for him/with a player like Ben Kane (perhaps that's why we've been playing him :eek:), to Brisbane for Mal Michael.
I reckon we need to look at this with a 'glass half full' attitude....if he stays, fantastic, we retain one of the comps' best tap Ruckmen, and someone who can also go forward and kick goals. And if he goes, we now have a very worthy replacement in RC, who will no doubt develop quicker in Spida's absence, as will big Max if he becomes 2nd Ruck. And we still got ST and 3rd in line.
So, positives either way.....
matsta1975
27 Aug 2006, 12:53
let spider go, no value to the hawks due to his lack of commitment and lack of versatility these days, he has become a one trick pony. when was the last time he looked dangerous actually running hard forward in a game? i think campbell gives us a much better option
Unfulfilled Potential
27 Aug 2006, 13:01
As great a tap ruckman as spida is, if we are trying to keep him to have him pass on his skills and be a mentor, wouldn't it be better to bring in a recently retired Ruckman as a ruck coach (Matthew Clarke from Adelaide must be near retiring - as an option).
Spida's form has declined this season, whether it be through injury or not and injury's will only be more of a factor as he ages.
I have had enough of the way his contract negotiations have been handled, If he was 25 with many years ahead you may tolerate his disruptions, but at 32 and with a young list, trade him and pick up a KP backman - Polak/Michael.
Bennycoff
27 Aug 2006, 13:07
Polak has potential to improve and will be around for a few years.
Unfulfilled Potential
27 Aug 2006, 13:31
Polak has potential to improve and will be around for a few years.
I agree, as much as Michael makes our team look much more solid on paper, his lifespan with us would be 2-3 maximum - depending on how motivated he is it may be less.
Polak fits in with our young list, fills CHB and has pre-seasons under his belt - like all these things there are pros and cons - Polak would need to want to fit into our culture and we need to have created a culture that he and all our players can develop and thrive within.
LuvMyHawks
27 Aug 2006, 17:57
I can't see Spida staying with us. If he intended to stay, he would have signed with us by now. But he can't commit to the Swans yet, as the AFL would know they have been negotiating terms with him. At the end of next week I believe he will tell us that he is leaving. A pity...but another fact apparently to put pay to that is his partner stated yesterday he has sent a copy of the raffle that he drew for Hawthorn,to his lawyer and he is considering sueing some of the boys at the club for defamation...he is finished at the Hawks, i'll stake my life on it. Too much water has passed under the bridge now. We will survive without him.... We have Robbie, and Max, they will only improve more each time they play. GO HAWKERS!!!! Bring on 2007..
Dr_Mutley
27 Aug 2006, 18:37
let spider go, no value to the hawks due to his lack of commitment and lack of versatility these days, he has become a one trick pony. when was the last time he looked dangerous actually running hard forward in a game? i think campbell gives us a much better option
i fully agree.... he is still worth alot to us, but given his selfish outlook, and poor committment, then i say offloa dhim while he still has some value... i think our ruck stocks can certainly make up the void as long as robbie campbel continues developing into a gun... his continuing involvement with the club would be nice to develop our younger ruckman, but so be it... not hard to get in a retired ruckman to fill that void...
the thing that will continue to kil us as a team is our inability to hold a decent sized key forward... we will continue to be killed next year if this is not addressed... we have killed joel smith over the years making him play on players twice his size... and now hes a shadow of what he could be... Hopefully we can trade spida for a ready made, youngish key position back (preferably CHB)... then trent croad can move to full back full time, and turn himself into the next Jonathon Hay, with his similar level of foot skills and disposal...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/GaryShadforth/welcome441.gif
Dr_Mutley
i fully agree.... he is still worth alot to us, but given his selfish outlook, and poor committment, then i say offloa dhim while he still has some value... i think our ruck stocks can certainly make up the void as long as robbie campbel continues developing into a gun... his continuing involvement with the club would be nice to develop our younger ruckman, but so be it... not hard to get in a retired ruckman to fill that void...
the thing that will continue to kil us as a team is our inability to hold a decent sized key forward... we will continue to be killed next year if this is not addressed... we have killed joel smith over the years making him play on players twice his size... and now hes a shadow of what he could be... Hopefully we can trade spida for a ready made, youngish key position back (preferably CHB)... then trent croad can move to full back full time, and turn himself into the next Jonathon Hay, with his similar level of foot skills and disposal...
Now that is a little bit harsh on Croady. His disposal isn't always too flash, but comparing him to Hay.... C'mon! I think Croad is better suited to CHB so we need to recruit a FB. Michael would be ideal but only has 2-3 years left and may not leave Brisbane. Polak would be a risk given the off-field issues but at this stage he would be my choice. If we could get him in a 3-way trade basically as a straight swap for Spida that would be OK. Everitt is a MUCH better player but considering the age difference it would be OK. I sure would not want to give up either of our first two draft picks for Polak though.
Dr_Mutley
27 Aug 2006, 19:08
Now that is a little bit harsh on Croady. His disposal isn't always too flash, but comparing him to Hay.... C'mon!
yeah granted.. prolly was a little harsh, given my left foot was more developed at age 4 than jon hays right foot at any age... his benzo (sleeping pill) misuse didnt help anything either...
to be fair to croady, of late, i have been impressed with his thinking, which has been the major problem with his disposal... i saw a few times over the last 2 weeks him streaming out across CHB at a hundred miles an hour, and slow down and pin point a 30m pass... finally he is learning... now if we could just get rid of that glass jaw ;)
I would certainly be happy with a Polak <-> Spida swap.. then hopefully Clarko could flog Polaks head into the game, and sort his issues out....
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/GaryShadforth/welcome441.gif
Dr_Mutley
SA HAWK
27 Aug 2006, 20:50
One more year out of him would be nice but only if he really wants to play for us. This would give max a bit more time to develop in the vfl but it seems like spider really doesn't want to play for us anymore.
We should have traded him last year and got what we could. Now he can walk for nothing if he really wants to. Hasn't looked interested all season.
To be honest i am happy to see robbie take the number 1 spot he has been good all season and really looks like he loves playing for us.
..he is finished at the Hawks, i'll stake my life on it. ..
I wouldn't stake my life on it!
Campbell is our future, unlike Spider - even if he did stay, I feel he will be our leading ruck when we launch our next premiership assault, when Spida isn't playing he seems to come into his own. I feel that the probable departure of Everitt could be a blessing in disguise...especially if we get something worthwhile.
Depends on the definition of need.
Are we a better team with spida? Yes
Will we survive & grow without him? Yes
I think there is a danger a number of posters are thinking the worse of spida on the basis of a few very 'liberal' media reports that have been wriitten with a great deal of supposition, inference and conjecture.
He has stuffed up a few times, but that is spida - he has also given the club a number of years of good service winning and also coming 2nd in the B&F amd if he re-signs will provide further good service.
Its now only a week to the end of season when both he and the club said they would resume contract discussion. The only sticking point is the term of the contract.
Lets just see what happens then.
The Kipster
28 Aug 2006, 12:27
No, he has had no interest since about round 10 onwards once our tilt at the 8 was over.....he is doing the same cr*p he did at the Saints....get rid of the fool.....not interested in Polax either as he has done nothing in the WAFL and is not worth the risk, for a bloke that went early in the draft because of so-called potential, has produced little other than headlines for the wrong reasons....for development Michael is the best bet....then we can mould someone to take over in time (3yrs is an excellent amount of time)
Depends on the definition of need.
Are we a better team with spida? Yes
Will we survive & grow without him? Yes
I think there is a danger a number of posters are thinking the worse of spida on the basis of a few very 'liberal' media reports that have been wriitten with a great deal of supposition, inference and conjecture.
He has stuffed up a few times, but that is spida - he has also given the club a number of years of good service winning and also coming 2nd in the B&F amd if he re-signs will provide further good service.
Its now only a week to the end of season when both he and the club said they would resume contract discussion. The only sticking point is the term of the contract.
Lets just see what happens then.
That is very true, but IMO Spida looks to be in the wane, he has been no where near as effective in the games he has played this season as he had been in the 2003-4-5 seasons.
If he doesn't want to play on a one year contract - as Crawford; a club legend does, we may as well milk as much as we can out of him while he still has some value.
I'd be rapt with a 2nd round pick for him to be honest.
Campbell and Bailey are only going to get better with more game time under their belts.