Stafford and Chaffey Retire

[DyerBolical]

Thanx guys for giving your best, good luck for the future. Will Gaspar and Kellaway go, i don't think so, maybe next year.

[Big Punt]

Gaspar, Kellaway may join exodus of senior Tigers
Rohan Connolly
August 29, 2006


RICHMOND is poised to part company with up to four of its most senior players, with two veterans expected to retire today and at least one and possibly two more having been told their time at Punt Road is up.

Ruckman Greg Stafford and defender Mark Chaffey are expected to announce their retirements at a press conference at Punt Road today after both decided they'd had enough of AFL football.

But key defenders Andrew Kellaway and Darren Gaspar may be less willing casualties of the Tigers' review of its senior list.

Stafford, a former Swan who played in the 1996 grand final and has spent the past five seasons at Punt Road, reached his 200th game against the Western Bulldogs three weeks ago and hinted at his retirement when he reached that milestone.

Chaffey, who confirmed to the club yesterday that he would not be going on in 2007, thrived under the coaching of Terry Wallace last year, but has struggled all through 2006 after a groin injury hampered his pre-season, with his battle to make up for lost time resulting in him not being selected in the senior team until round 17.

But the situation regarding Kellaway and Gaspar is more problematic. Richmond remained tight-lipped on the potential axings last night, coach Terry Wallace refusing to confirm what would be a big clean-out of the Tigers' senior core.

"We've got one game to play and we'll deal with delistings and things like that once the season has finished," Wallace said.

But it is believed the club has told both players their careers are on the line. Gaspar's controversial five-year deal with Richmond, worth $500,000 a season before he took a pay cut, ends this season, resulting in the defender being the subject of much speculation.

Gaspar's manager Ron Joseph met Richmond director of football Greg Miller yesterday in an attempt to negotiate a new deal for the 2001 best-and-fairest winner and two-time All-Australian.

The dour key backman had a fine 2005, finishing fourth in the best and fairest, but has struggled throughout 2006, managing only eight games, his season ended by knee cartilage damage for which he had surgery before round 17.

But Kellaway would be a more surprising casualty, the courageous defender having played 15 of 16 games this season before straining a hamstring while surfing — an injury from which he was due to return this week.

The 2000 best-and-fairest winner, who won All-Australian honours the same year, has played 172 games with the club since 1998.

If all four players are finished, Richmond will have lost more than 750 matches of senior experience in one hit, Gaspar and Stafford two of only four Tigers in a young and developing list to have played more than 200 matches.

[Tigerland]

Good servents but yes time to go for all 4.

Wallace wants a highly skilled team. Gas and Kellaway don't fit into that mould.
Thursfield will take Gaspers role. Kellaways courage will be missed but Raines is just as couragous.

Anyone over 26 that has bad skills has to get the chop.
Not looking good for Tivendale.

Gone - Stafford, Chaffey, Gasper, Kellaway, Rodan, Humm, Tivendale.

Trade Hall - the skills are shocking. I'd be inclined to keep Moore as we'll probably be getting rid of 3 - 4 defenders already.

No doubt there's a couple of rookies/unprovens that might get the axe too.

Jackson, Roach? - they haven't been seen ffor a while.

[tiger4life]

sad to see them go.

Both stafford and chaffey have been terrific servants of the Richmond Football Club and did well throughout their careers. Good luck in the future.

Thanks and Good job guys :thumbsu:

[tiger4life]

Good servents but yes time to go for all 4.

Wallace wants a highly skilled team. Gas and Kellaway don't fit into that mould.
Thursfield will take Gaspers role. Kellaways courage will be missed but Raines is just as couragous.

Anyone over 26 that has bad skills has to get the chop.
Not looking good for Tivendale.

Gone - Stafford, Chaffey, Gasper, Kellaway, Rodan, Humm, Tivendale.

Trade Hall - the skills are shocking. I'd be inclined to keep Moore as we'll probably be getting rid of 3 - 4 defenders already.

No doubt there's a couple of rookies/unprovens that might get the axe too.

Jackson, Roach? - they haven't been seen ffor a while.

i really cant see us getting rid of kellaway and tivendale. Kellaway played 15 out of 16 games before injuring his hammy (could come back this weekend) and tivendale has basically played every game it think.

Jackson, Moore and Roach will all be looked at for possible delistings/trades...as limbach may be?

[Truetiger]

Chaffey and Stafford were always going to go.
Gasper I thought was. Now he should do the right thing and agree with the club.

Kellaway though i kinda Disagree with.

[itsintheblood]

A bit of a surpise with kellaway going but to be quite honest, we've achieved nothing with all four of these players in the side. Time to change the guard and find some skillfull players. Courage is great but skill counts for more.

I think we'll find kellaway and possibly gaspar will be at other clubs next year and wont retire. Tivendale is on really shaky ground.

[Truetiger]

A bit of a surpise with kellaway going but to be quite honest, we've achieved nothing with all four of these players in the side. Time to change the guard and find some skillfull players. Courage is great but skill counts for more.

I think we'll find kellaway and possibly gaspar will be at other clubs next year and wont retire. Tivendale is on really shaky ground.

Now which clubs would take Gasper or Kellaway more so Gasper though. Tivendale is on very shaky ground. One i would be sad to see the tivs go.

Darren Gasper off to Job network to find another career path.

[jezza]

If we got rid of all 4, it will be one or two years late for a decision like that. I have no doubt we will go backwards if we lose that much experience in one hit, especially in defence. So if we were going to do something drastic like that we should have done it at the start of Wallace's reign and rebuilt further through the draft. Instead we've persisted with senior guys and been much better off in the short term than say the Hawks, but if we did this now we risk slipping right down. I'm not convinced that if we lost those 4, we have enough players ready to take us forward.

Stafford was always going. Chaffey has been decent lately, but missed a lot through injury and perhaps has had enough.

So if those two go, it leaves Gaspar free to go on the veterans list, therefore not taking a spot away from a draftee. We could also negotiate a pretty good deal I imagine (wouldn't surprise me if this article was the club simply putting the pressure on him to sign on their terms).

As we saw against Sydney, our defensive stocks are pretty thin and I don't think we can afford to lose Gaspar and/or Kellaway for next season.

[Truetiger]

Stafford/Knobel - Simmonds-Hall or Patterson
Chaffey - Hartigan
Gasper - Thursfield
Kellaway - Hall/Schulz

Looks to have em covered.

Or there is a good young backman in Bock with Adelaide who has not really had a go.

[jezza]

Stafford/Knobel - Simmonds-Hall or Patterson
Chaffey - Hartigan
Gasper - Thursfield
Kellaway - Hall/Schulz

Looks to have em covered.

Or there is a good young backman in Bock with Adelaide who has not really had a go.


We lack depth this year (Sydney game anyone?). Lose those 4 and what's our depth going to be like next year? People seem to take it as a given that Thursfield will be fine and ready to play 22 games as starting full back. Well what if he's not? What's the plan then? Keep Gaspar on for 1 season as a veteran on a reasonably cheap deal, and there's your insurance if something happens to a key defender.

With Stafford going, we do suddenly look a bit light on for rucks. Knobel has barely strung a couple of games together this year with all his injuries, Pattison still very young and when was the last time you saw Hall ruck?

[tomthetiger]

Yes, we will go backwards for a while now. You just can't go too far without ANY senior players. Oh well, future future blah blah. Im looking forward to 2010.

[Truetiger]

Why keep players ie Stafford and Gasper. When they are not apart of the future. Free up there money and who knows whom we can get in the coming draft or trade time.

[Harvey Leadpipe]

We lack depth this year (Sydney game anyone?). Lose those 4 and what's our depth going to be like next year? People seem to take it as a given that Thursfield will be fine and ready to play 22 games as starting full back. Well what if he's not? What's the plan then? Keep Gaspar on for 1 season as a veteran on a reasonably cheap deal, and there's your insurance if something happens to a key defender.



Agree we will lack depth down there Jezza, but the way the ball was pumped down there during the Sydney match, a fit Glen Jakovich, Mal Michael and Chris Langford would have found it a tall order. When the ball is getting belted inside the forward 50 every 30 seconds, there's not much the backs were going to do against Sydney. Our midfield is going to be the key to improvement. If we have a rotation of 8 or so blokes that could all play in the guts, when resting they can head down the back flanks and pockets. All we need is a couple of talls to spoil, and let the skilled ones mop up. Makes it a hell of a lot easier if the midfield are winning the ball, and limiting the supply into the opposition forwardline as well.

Although, if both Gaspar and Kellaway do get the heave, wouldn't mind another tall down there as a top-up, just incase Thirsty is going to take a while to develop.

[itsintheblood]

We lack depth this year (Sydney game anyone?). Lose those 4 and what's our depth going to be like next year? People seem to take it as a given that Thursfield will be fine and ready to play 22 games as starting full back. Well what if he's not? What's the plan then? Keep Gaspar on for 1 season as a veteran on a reasonably cheap deal, and there's your insurance if something happens to a key defender.

With Stafford going, we do suddenly look a bit light on for rucks. Knobel has barely strung a couple of games together this year with all his injuries, Pattison still very young and when was the last time you saw Hall ruck?


They ALL played against the bulldogs and look what happened. Stafford has done absolutely NOTHING in the ruck this year. Pattison will bulk up over summer and be simmos backup along with knobel.

Time to clean em out.

[jezza]

I don't think anyone's arguing about Stafford, his time is clearly up. Chaffey we have plenty of cover for. It's key defenders we lack.

[I Rock]

Kellaway is the name that surpised me, with Gaspar they could feel it's his time to go or it's just a squeeze to sign him on alot less.

But with AK I would have thought another year would be no drama's, unless he's pulled up worse than reported after the surfing injury and club feels his body is not up to it.

[Darth_Tiger]

kellaway would be a surprise cut. the other three wont make alot of difference.

[Weaver]

I don't think anyone's arguing about Stafford, his time is clearly up. Chaffey we have plenty of cover for. It's key defenders we lack.

Stafford isn't much value playing 5-6 good games a season.

Chaffey's role as tagger has gone to Johnson and Polo, and the back-pocket job has gone to Raines. Hartigan, Neman, White and Howat are in contention for those spots now. Simply no game time for Chaffey left in 2007.

Gaspar and Kellaway at the same time would be overkill. Hall, J.Bowden, P.Bowden ... Thursfield coming off a knee injury ... maybe Schulz if he doesn't play forward. Be very, very light on down back.

Surely have to keep Kellaway ... he has been very good when he has played. He has run hard, played the Wallace gameplan, and his kicking is not nearly as bad as made out ... too many people lazily lump him in with his brother.

I would have thought Kellaway was the ideal veteran to keep around. Tough, never in any trouble off the field, respected and able to play 15-16 games a season at a high level in a number of different spots. Madness to get rid of him.

[Goldust]

:) NEVER underestimate the value of a tall defender. I journeyed to Telstra on Friday night to watch the Bulldogs play the Saints. Poor ol' Dogs never stood a chance. Just didn't have the capabilities in defence to hold Riewoldt, Gehrig, Hamill and Kosi! They have Brian Harris and ....... nothing else in the way of talls. A real surprise that they don't get big scores kicked against them more often.
So with only Thursfield......who will take time to develop further and only then if he overcomes this latest setback (which must have some form of question mark), we are going to be needing to retain at least one of Gaspar or Kellaway. I vote the latter!:)

[The Dice Man]

Stafford/Knobel - Simmonds-Hall or Patterson
Chaffey - Hartigan
Gasper - Thursfield
Kellaway - Hall/Schulz

Looks to have em covered.

Or there is a good young backman in Bock with Adelaide who has not really had a go.


And if we get an injury hello more 100 point hidings.


I also think we will go backwards next year if we were to lose both Kellaway and Gas in one year.

[Darth_Tiger]

you are right weaver, andy is actually a very good kick and a quite creative defender. reading between the lines in that article i think the writer has no factual evidence for suggesting ak is going to be cut.

[UpTheGuts]

Agree with Weaver... definitely keep Chubba. Surely the hardest body player around. Yes, get's beaten in the air, but frankly I'd be expecting some more serious towellings next year if our defence can't be improved over the break - cutting Gaspar and Kellaway is nuts.

AK is a quality quality bloke too - remember it was he that actually turned down Richmond's offer after his AA year becuase he thought the offer was too HIGH and he (allegedly) wanted to enable us to chase others and improve the team...

A cheap Gaspar still has some appeal. Top 5 in 2005 B&F and I still think he has some impressive traits. Not all his fault that his body's been shyte for a while now. Keep both.

[peejay]

Agree with Weaver... definitely keep Chubba. Surely the hardest body player around. Yes, get's beaten in the air, but frankly I'd be expecting some more serious towellings next year if our defence can't be improved over the break - cutting Gaspar and Kellaway is nuts.

AK is a quality quality bloke too - remember it was he that actually turned down Richmond's offer after his AA year becuase he thought the offer was too HIGH and he (allegedly) wanted to enable us to chase others and improve the team...

A cheap Gaspar still has some appeal. Top 5 in 2005 B&F and I still think he has some impressive traits. Not all his fault that his body's been shyte for a while now. Keep both.

Agree 100%

[Punt_Road_Roar]

I will be disappointed if we get rid of Kellaway, that I cannot understand.

The rest I dont care, their time is up but not Andrew Kellaway surely.

[itsintheblood]

Stafford isn't much value playing 5-6 good games a season.

Chaffey's role as tagger has gone to Johnson and Polo, and the back-pocket job has gone to Raines. Hartigan, Neman, White and Howat are in contention for those spots now. Simply no game time for Chaffey left in 2007.

Gaspar and Kellaway at the same time would be overkill. Hall, J.Bowden, P.Bowden ... Thursfield coming off a knee injury ... maybe Schulz if he doesn't play forward. Be very, very light on down back.

Surely have to keep Kellaway ... he has been very good when he has played. He has run hard, played the Wallace gameplan, and his kicking is not nearly as bad as made out ... too many people lazily lump him in with his brother.

I would have thought Kellaway was the ideal veteran to keep around. Tough, never in any trouble off the field, respected and able to play 15-16 games a season at a high level in a number of different spots. Madness to get rid of him.

I wouldnt be surprised one bit if miller has a serious plan here. Getting rid of kellaway would be a brave move without a backup plan. Polak would be in the mix here I'd say. Definately acker also with a heap of cap relief.

[duckboy]

Andy Kellaway must play on. I think I agree with Darth that the article in question gives no real insight and is speculation regarding AK.

As for Gas, I agree with all of those that said we need him around as security. Thursfield has played a total of what? 8 games? Coming off a knee reco, he's unlikely to be as good as he was, let alone develop further in 2007. 2008 and beyond will be his time.

If we happen to offload both of them and have a similar injury run to the Sydney game, god help us!!

[oxx]

Im wrapped.

Throw stones at them as they leave.

[Weaver]

Andy Kellaway must play on. I think I agree with Darth that the article in question gives no real insight and is speculation regarding AK.


The rumour around the club (midseason) was that if Kellaway and Gaspar were to be offered deals they would be 1-year, minimum wage + match payments type deals.

The story about Gaspar maybe leaving has come (it appears) from his management.

Probably a game of chicken / public negotiation going on here. We make a low-ball offer. The player's manager basically issues a public statement to see if there is any interest in his player. If another club offers some cash then the manger goes back to Richmond etc.

I think the journo has seen that Kellaway is yet to be contracted and maybe done the old 1+1=3.

I agree that Miller might have something up his sleeve but it is a dangerous game. He might be trying to string along Gaspar and Kellaway until after trade week. If we get out target then only one might get a deal. If we miss out we have a couple of months to get the contracts signed.

[ata40]

I agree that Miller might have something up his sleeve but it is a dangerous game. He might be trying to string along Gaspar and Kellaway until after trade week. If we get out target then only one might get a deal. If we miss out we have a couple of months to get the contracts signed.

Agree this is a likely scenario just a shame that after all these years loyalty is still not a 2 way deal.

I am not convinced that Gasper is a "must have" and still have some reservations on Kelleway. It will get down to whether Wallace feels we need another "learning" year or go hell for leather on a Top 8 spot.

Somehow with what has been said over the last few weeks I get the impression that Wallace has set the Top 8 expectation for Year 3 so I think one of these veterans will be mandatory.

[peternorth]

need kellaway to stay on for another year. granted he maybe overtaken during the year but its important to have someone we know who can do a job (when fit) to ease the burden on our younger key defenders (ie thursfield).

how old is chubb anyway?

[IDGAF]

A cheap Gaspar still has some appeal. Top 5 in 2005 B&F and I still think he has some impressive traits. Not all his fault that his body's been shyte for a while now. Keep both.About Gaspars only appealing attribute is that magnificent bouffant .

You`ve answered your own question there UTG .

The game has passed him by and obviously Terry agrees ... staggers out of the backline like a drunken sailor when he has the pill , no-one knows which way to turn .

[Infamy]

If Chaffey is going then why would we get rid of Gaspar? He wouldn't take up any space on the list as he's a veteran, provides depth in defence and gives us an option to play on Gorilla forwards.

If we get rid of Kellaway as well then it would be a massive mistake. He's been our best defender this year, if he goes then we will go backwards next year. We certainly won't make finals.

[Madtiger2006]

we must keep kellaway. Great player and has another 2 years. Staff and Chaff retiring has made room and we will get rid of Moore. I thought Gas would be worth another year too. I don't want hall to be a 1st pick key defender or ruckman, please no.

[True Thylacine]

Theres a drop of blood int he water in most of these posts. Kellaway definitely not, surely not. As Weaver said fits the game plan and represents some real experience and hardness down back. What is more of a concern to me is that somehow Will Thursfield has turned into a bona fide key backman! WTF did that happen? Promising kid yeah but now he appears to be developing a guaranteed KPP status on the back of 3 quarters agianst the Saints. I agree with Jezza that I dont want to see another Sydney debacle. Get a grip some of you fellas, kick em out yeah when their use by date is up sure, but lets have a Plan B. Makes us no better that the one who grows potatoes!

[Madtiger2006]

thursfield looks great, but we can't rely on him at FB. He isn't that tall or bulky yet. He's about 190cm?

[Big Punt]

Chaffey, Staff and Gaspar have become liabilities IMO and should go or be let go.

AK is still a very solid, reliable and courageous player. We are not ready to let him go, unless there is a ready made replacement in the wings. And I can't see any obvious ones.

[lozza5]

Thursfeld will be a ripper in time. I saw 2 years of him at the Dragons and he is a class act. On top of that he is one hell of a guy. Post your thoughts on Tivendale, is his time up?

[True Thylacine]

Thursfeld will be a ripper in time. I saw 2 years of him at the Dragons and he is a class act. On top of that he is one hell of a guy. Post your thoughts on Tivendale, is his time up?

Exactly...in bloody time! After he not only recovers froma serious knee injury and establishes himself a s regualr senior player. Just a coupla minor hurdles before we can pencil him in as a definite. Tivendale is a long way from our worst. Lots more need the @rse before him at the moment.

[Truetiger]

Thursfeld will be a ripper in time. I saw 2 years of him at the Dragons and he is a class act. On top of that he is one hell of a guy. Post your thoughts on Tivendale, is his time up?


Tivendales time is up at the end of every season :) so again i dont see how this year is any different.

[PLSC]

welcome to the new richmond = finally

[plough]

Well done Chaff, solid career with some over head marking that belied your size, solid tagging and later very reliable across half back.

Kellaway has to go on. Size and commitment.

Agree it is time for elbows to retire.

Can't decide on Gaspar, but I think he still has the ability to blanket a forward if he is fit. Sometimes I think he is victimised by the emphasis on stats these days. May not be the premier full back in the comp but there a few worse than him still. Keep him providing he promises the hair does not get too girly.

[banzai]

need kellaway to stay on for another year. granted he maybe overtaken during the year but its important to have someone we know who can do a job (when fit) to ease the burden on our younger key defenders (ie thursfield).

how old is chubb anyway?

I love Andy Kellaway and certainly wouldnt complain if we decide to keep him for one more, but who was the last decent player he did a good defensive job on? He still takes great marks running back with the flight and as the 3rd man up but i think his great defensive days are past.

We need to move on. Thursfield to full back (Joel if Thursfield isnt right to go at the start of the year), Schulz to CHB. The forward line to be held down by Richo and Browny with cameos from Luke McGuane and Cleve.

[Bojangles17]

Theres a drop of blood int he water in most of these posts. Kellaway definitely not, surely not. As Weaver said fits the game plan and represents some real experience and hardness down back. What is more of a concern to me is that somehow Will Thursfield has turned into a bona fide key backman! WTF did that happen? Promising kid yeah but now he appears to be developing a guaranteed KPP status on the back of 3 quarters agianst the Saints. !

well said TT, this has serious risk of taking us back a few paces before we go forwards. In taking K2 and Gas off our list it means that JB would become a permanent fixture at FB which I wouldnt have thought is ideal set up.

K2 easily has a year left in him, Gas is more questionable and it would appear has concerns over longer term fitness so i can understand that. Chubba has been prety sound in that dept and I could see him playing 22 games plus finals

[Bentleigh]

Good to see the club moving forward.

Gaspar should go as well.

AK has been solid but wouldn't be a bad move if he also left.

Club is finally starting to rebuild.

[tigerdan]

Club is finally starting to rebuild.

Not deliberately trying to start another flame war with you Bentleigh, but surely last year or the year before we started the rebuilding?

[jezza]

Good to see the club moving forward.

Gaspar should go as well.

AK has been solid but wouldn't be a bad move if he also left.

Club is finally starting to rebuild.


All I have to say is this:

I don't want to hear a single ****ing complaint next season when Ray Hall gets towelled up by a forward.

[Bojangles17]

All I have to say is this:

I don't want to hear a single ****ing complaint next season when Ray Hall gets towelled up by a forward.

thats what worries the hell out of me or alternately we play JB out of position robbing us of 30 possies rebounding off HB

[Rodgerramjet]

I wouldnt be surprised one bit if miller has a serious plan here. Getting rid of kellaway would be a brave move without a backup plan. Polak would be in the mix here I'd say. Definately acker also with a heap of cap relief.

Yes my thinking is this way inclined also. The only way you could get rid of both is to KNOW you have a viable solution.

[The Dice Man]

We will be spoon contenders next year if Gas and AK go.

If in doubt, just remind yourself of results when both of those 2 were out at stages in 06.

[Rodgerramjet]

Im wrapped.

Throw stones at them as they leave.


LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[cairo tiger]

we have to be bold and we have to be fair dinkhum, time to go lads and thanks for the mamaries....do not expect big things next year, mayvbe just squeeze into 8 but the year after baby ahama ahma

[banzai]

We will be spoon contenders next year if Gas and AK go.

If in doubt, just remind yourself of results when both of those 2 were out at stages in 06.

Like the last 3 weeks.

[jezza]

Like the last 3 weeks.


And what absolute powerhouses we have demolished....

[banzai]

And what absolute powerhouses we have demolished....

Well it hardly makes us spoon contenders.

Which powerhouses have we demolished with them playing? We have had only 2 wins against top 8 teams, one when we caught Adelaide out with tactics, the other in the wet v Collingwood and they aint that great anyway. Who has Andy Kellaway beaten this year that would have destroyed us if he didnt play?

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Maybe this is Terry's way of keep supporters expectations down, probably feels we are challenging for the 8 a year too early in his 5 year stint so he gets rid of a few experienced backmen thus making it much tougher to finish mid table next year.

We wont win a premiership with Stafford, Chaffey, Gaspar and Co, as most of us here have always said, perhaps Terry knows it aswell so thinks this is the perfect time to dump them and lower our expectations for a Final 8 finish next year ...........


what a prik !!!! LOL

[Booms]

Polak is definitely in GM's mind...

[banzai]

We will be spoon contenders next year if Gas and AK go.

If in doubt, just remind yourself of results when both of those 2 were out at stages in 06.

An interesting stat for you Dice Man.

In 06 with Darren Gaspar playing we have won 2 games and lost 6. Without Gaspar we have won 9 and lost 4. Which win/loss record makes us spoon contenders????

[Truetiger]

Did it or did it not say one of kellaway or gasper? Even if it is both with the money we get in return we could pick up other players or backman. Miller knows what he is doing ;)

[The Dice Man]

Did it or did it not say one of kellaway or gasper? Even if it is both with the money we get in return we could pick up other players or backman. Miller knows what he is doing ;)


Thank you TT.

[The Dice Man]

An interesting stat for you Dice Man.

In 06 with Darren Gaspar playing we have won 2 games and lost 6. Without Gaspar we have won 9 and lost 4. Which win/loss record makes us spoon contenders????


Do you have the win/loss stat for when both AK and Gas are out of the side?

[CoggaRules]

An interesting stat for you Dice Man.

In 06 with Darren Gaspar playing we have won 2 games and lost 6. Without Gaspar we have won 9 and lost 4. Which win/loss record makes us spoon contenders????


how about you illuminate us with the other stat. The aggreagate losing score in the 6 games we lost, with him, as opposed to the aggregate to the 4 we lost without him. Then you can illuminate us on who we played when we won 2 and lost 6 and who we played when we won 9 and lost 4.

When you have produced those stats, then you can call them real stats and not JS, which yor appraisal looks alot like. ;)

[banzai]

Do you have the win/loss stat for when both AK and Gas are out of the side?

Ill work it out.

Ok when they have Both missed we are 3-3.
Both played we are 2-6.

I understand your agument that we need one of them in the backline for experience, but If Gaspar goes its not like AK could play on any player Gaspar would have anyway as i dont think Kellaway could even fill in as a KP player anymore. Further to the point the way our team is headed is pace and skill out of defence, neither of these players help us in this area. Andy Kellaway has been great for the club and can still be a solid player, however i dont believe he would be a great loss if he goes. Neither player will be around when we plan to challenge for the flag so we may as well start trying to find player to fill their positions.

[Punt_Road_Roar]

We need Kellaway

We dont need Gaspar, Chaffey and Stafford anymore

[banzai]

how about you illuminate us with the other stat. The aggreagate losing score in the 6 games we lost, with him, as opposed to the aggregate to the 4 we lost without him. Then you can illuminate us on who we played when we won 2 and lost 6 and who we played when we won 9 and lost 4.

When you have produced those stats, then you can call them real stats and not JS, which yor appraisal looks alot like. ;)

Well in those 4 games we lost without him, which would we have won? The only debatable one was the bulldogs game, but If Simmonds plays, we probably win anyway.

[The Dice Man]

If AK and Gas both leave, who will play in their positions in 07?

Moore, Thursfield?

Thursfield's played half a dozen matches coming off the rookie list, and is recovering from a sever injury. He is an unknown quantity at this stage.

Dont under-estimate the value of an experienced backman... I mean how many here were keen for Mark Graham to continue through this season?

[tomthetiger]

I agree it would make absolutely no sense to get rid of Kellaway, especially considering we recruited Graham for last year, who played exactly the same role.

[banzai]

If AK and Gas both leave, who will play in their positions in 07?

Moore, Thursfield?

Thursfield's played half a dozen matches coming off the rookie list, and is recovering from a sever injury. He is an unknown quantity at this stage.

Dont under-estimate the value of an experienced backman... I mean how many here were keen for Mark Graham to continue through this season?

Personally i think we need to move Schulz back to defense. Then if Thursfield can come back as well, we should be set for the future. We are going to have to find replacements soon anyway, why not start now?

FB: Thursfield
CHB: Schulz
R: Simmonds
CHF: Richo
FF: Brown (could move Brown into the pocket as Cleve + McGuane develop, both may take one more year though)

[CoggaRules]

Well in those 4 games we lost without him, which would we have won? The only debatable one was the bulldogs game, but If Simmonds plays, we probably win anyway.

when Gas was missing and we came up against sides that had a true FF and not a clayton's FF. We got smashed and the FF had party time. That is the stat that counts. ;)

[The Dice Man]

Personally i think we need to move Schulz back to defense. Then if Thursfield can come back as well, we should be set for the future. We are going to have to find replacements soon anyway, why not start now?



See right there we completley differ. I see Schulz as a foward. Always have, and probably always will.

[TheBacko]

See right there we completley differ. I see Schulz as a foward. Always have, and probably always will.
i'm with you there. schulz is a natural forward. very good on the lead and a pretty accurate set shot for goal. needs to know how to find the footy more tho.

and just on the staff and the chaff, enjoyed watching them over the years. stafford has been a bit unfairly criticised at times this year and when on song was great to watch, and chaffey has been unlucky this year with injury and was a very solid and mostly consistant player over his career. hope the boys get up for them on satuday, and make sure all tiger fans get to the game to farewell these two blokes.

[PLSC]

lol at you guys thinking we are gonna get rid of chaffey, gaspar and kellaway but not recruit any defenders

its called LONG TERM you idiots, im sure there are a few jason roe's or stephen gilhams around the traps come draft time

id rather get beaten with mcguane playing FB rather than gaspar

[Truetiger]

lol at you guys thinking we are gonna get rid of chaffey, gaspar and kellaway but not recruit any defenders

its called LONG TERM you idiots, im sure there are a few jason roe's or stephen gilhams around the traps come draft time

id rather get beaten with mcguane playing FB rather than gaspar


How about Bock from Adelaide he is a backman and looks alright ;)

[tiger4life]

How about Bock from Adelaide he is a backman and looks alright ;)

yeh he looks good....but would they trade him? especially with another defender...ben hart...looking as though he may retire?

[The Dice Man]

I think Chaffey has shown great spirit and even leadership in announcing his time is up.

He's come to the conclusion on his own, probably realising his time was coming to an end, and would like to go out on his own terms.

He's battled injury all year and got back into the side, so I commend him for that and thank him for his 10 years at Tigerland.

Wish both Staff and Chaff the very best of luck in both their futures.

[Goldust]

If AK and Gas both leave, who will play in their positions in 07?

Moore, Thursfield?

Thursfield's played half a dozen matches coming off the rookie list, and is recovering from a sever injury. He is an unknown quantity at this stage.

Dont under-estimate the value of an experienced backman... I mean how many here were keen for Mark Graham to continue through this season?


:) TAKE a bow Dice Man...telling it like it is. Blind Freddie can see that the Tigers will be in big strife in they offload both Kellaway and Gaspar and pin their season's hopes on Good Will Thursfield.
My take on the situation is that I rate Thursfield highly, but think many are going a little "ga-ga" over his one performance against Nick Riewoldt this season. The guy has played a mere handful of games since coming off the rookie, FINISHED BOTH HIS SEASONS ON THE INJURED LIST (hence he is a huge risk) and needs work on his body strength!!!! Asking a heck of a lot for this guy to take on the likes of Fevola, Brown, Hall, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Gehrig, Rocca (though don't rate him), Tredrea, Hansen, Thompson, Bradshaw etc. Without any notable help, we would plain bury the guy.
Count me in those who wanted Graham to continue. His 2005 was outstanding!
And I find it interesting that many of those who are calling for Gaspar and Kellaway to disappear and the very same people calling for Ray Hall to be culled!
Yes ladies and gentlemen, we would have a backline the size of the one that we fielded against the Swans at the Dome ........ and we all saw the results that day.
Your call on Schulz too is right on the money. SCHULZ IS A FORWARD!!!!!!!! Abandon any notion of him being a defender, he is needed elsewhere!:)

[Crumden]

Well done Staff and Chaff. Congrats on your careers and on making the right decision as to when to go. :thumbsu:

As for Gas and Chubb, the brave decision would be to delist them. We may take a step backwards if we delist them, but we risk treading water if we keep them. We've thrown kids in the deep end this year and in most cases they have responded. This is the way forward, as well as looking for value pickups of under 25yo players in the trades/draft.

And with Kellaway, he's as game as Ned kelly. But its a cop-out to say its a cop-out to compare his kicking to Dunc. :D He kicks within his limitations, which means slowing things done to increase his accuracy, but the team pays for that at times.

Up to now we've been able to improve our list by making easy decisions. Now we have to start making the harder ones about the list. No use keeping blokes that will just help us scrape into the 8 when they are at the wrong end of their career. We need to build for a list that will take us toward being a powerhouse. Time for Gas and Chubb to go, and we should think long and hard about fringe-dwellers like Hall and Hyde as well. We may still be able to get something useful for these last two at the trade table.

[tiger4life]

Up to now we've been able to improve our list by making easy decisions. Now we have to start making the harder ones about the list. No use keeping blokes that will just help us scrape into the 8 when they are at the wrong end of their career. We need to build for a list that will take us toward being a powerhouse. Time for Gas and Chubb to go, and we should think long and hard about fringe-dwellers like Hall and Hyde as well. We may still be able to get something useful for these last two at the trade table.

i really wouldnt say hyde is a fringe-dweller! He has played every game this season, kicking 12 goals and averaging about 17 possessions a game!

[Truetiger]

i really wouldnt say hyde is a fringe-dweller! He has played every game this season, kicking 12 goals and averaging about 17 possessions a game!


Agree Hyde has played well. :thumbsu:

[TheBacko]

:) TAKE a bow Dice Man...telling it like it is. Blind Freddie can see that the Tigers will be in big strife in they offload both Kellaway and Gaspar and pin their season's hopes on Good Will Thursfield.
My take on the situation is that I rate Thursfield highly, but think many are going a little "ga-ga" over his one performance against Nick Riewoldt this season. The guy has played a mere handful of games since coming off the rookie, FINISHED BOTH HIS SEASONS ON THE INJURED LIST (hence he is a huge risk) and needs work on his body strength!!!! Asking a heck of a lot for this guy to take on the likes of Fevola, Brown, Hall, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Gehrig, Rocca (though don't rate him), Tredrea, Hansen, Thompson, Bradshaw etc. Without any notable help, we would plain bury the guy.
Count me in those who wanted Graham to continue. His 2005 was outstanding!
And I find it interesting that many of those who are calling for Gaspar and Kellaway to disappear and the very same people calling for Ray Hall to be culled!
Yes ladies and gentlemen, we would have a backline the size of the one that we fielded against the Swans at the Dome ........ and we all saw the results that day.
Your call on Schulz too is right on the money. SCHULZ IS A FORWARD!!!!!!!! Abandon any notion of him being a defender, he is needed elsewhere!:)
couldn't agree more. i don't understand why kellaways name was there & there is no chance we can afford to lose him. those rumors are stupid. gaspar should be given another year because the best tall backmen have experience! zac dawson has had a terrible year, & we all saw what richo did to bradley on the weekend.

[Crumden]

i really wouldnt say hyde is a fringe-dweller! He has played every game this season, kicking 12 goals and averaging about 17 possessions a game!He's not a fringe dweller in a team that finishes outside the eight, but he would be in a better team. He just seems to me to perform well against poorer opposition and go missing against the better teams. I keep hoping he will prove me wrong and a couple of times he has looked like he was going to, only to go missing again after a few games. IMO he is probably our best trade bait because he would have some value but not be missed too much. Much like Fiora.

[slightlycynical]

jesus, everyone just needs to calm down:

(a) Stafford was always going to retire: wallace convinced him of one more year last year.
(B) Chaffey knows enough is enough... great decision... he can see there is no more place for him.

(C) as per gasper & kellaway, we really need to be sure that we have some decent players to replace them with. 1st draft pick may well be a midfielder. Both players fill positions that add a lot to the team... you can't teach the courage they have.
(d) don't believe everything you read!!!!!!!!!

[Rancid_Beasties]

If we got rid of Gaspar, Kellaway and Ray Hall like some of you want, we wont make the finals next year. No chance. We need at least Kellaway, and probably Hall too.

McGuane at full back? No chance, hes actually a forward for christs sake!
Thursfield on a big power forward in the square? Not proven at this stage, hes played on midsized/quick forwards not the gorillas... I even doubt he'll be able to play on quick mid sized forwards anymore now that hes done a knee so early in his career. I think he'll be a decent tall defender but no more useful than Rayzor.
Schulz, hes a full forward plain and simple. If he plays at centre half back he'd do ok but we need him to develop as a decent key forward for when richo retires. Would be a waste at CHB.
Who else is there? Nobody wants to see Joel Bowden stuck at full back for the rest of his career...we have to keep Ray Hall and Kellaway and replace Gaspar with a decent tall back of some sort from somewhere as soon as possible.

[Rodgerramjet]

See right there we completley differ. I see Schulz as a foward. Always have, and probably always will.

I believe that Shultz has proven beyond all doubt this year that he is a forward and not a backman. I don't mind seeing him doing a pre season and wizard cup campaign down back for experience, but in the real stuff he's a forward.

[metallichris]

I believe that Shultz has proven beyond all doubt this year that he is a forward and not a backman. I don't mind seeing him doing a pre season and wizard cup campaign down back for experience, but in the real stuff he's a forward.
Very excited to see his impact in 2007 with a full pre-season under his beft. :)

[IDGAF]

Post your thoughts on Tivendale, is his time up?LMAO

(hillbilly accent) yeerrrr aint frum round here are yeeeerrr ...pfftt ... ting

[Bojangles17]

I believe that Shultz has proven beyond all doubt this year that he is a forward and not a backman. I don't mind seeing him doing a pre season and wizard cup campaign down back for experience, but in the real stuff he's a forward.

Id actually prefer to see him at FF whilst Richo watches from the stand licking ice creams just to see what he can do with a bit more of the pill coming his way

[Bentleigh]

I believe that Shultz has proven beyond all doubt this year that he is a forward and not a backman. I don't mind seeing him doing a pre season and wizard cup campaign down back for experience, but in the real stuff he's a forward.

He is a Brabshaw type.

Will be very handy to have at both ends.

[sante]

Good luck to both Stafford and Chaffey...they have been great servants for the RFC and had very good careers...sad to see that Chaffey's career was cut short by injury but he has done the right thing by hanging the boots up early :thumbsu: and Stafford always had it in his mind that 2006 was his final AFL season


For the talk about Schulz and his position, this weekend he is named CHB and rightly so as Hall is out. Schulz played a little down back verse the Dons too last week

[True Thylacine]

Even in retirement Chaffey is the quiet silent type, who just tries to get it done. Good luck Chaff and thanks for not choosing baseball!

[Truetiger]

All I have to say is this:

I don't want to hear a single ****ing complaint next season when Ray Hall gets towelled up by a forward.

Dont worry i wont. All players have gotta learn. So lets wait and see what happens with Hall.

[jezza]

Dont worry i wont. All players have gotta learn. So lets wait and see what happens with Hall.

I guarantee the same people that are calling for the heads of Gaspar and/or Kellaway will be those whinging when we are copping a flogging and have no back-line depth.

[Kurtis G]

Why keep players ie Stafford and Gasper. When they are not apart of the future. Free up there money and who knows whom we can get in the coming draft or trade time.
The point is though, if there was going to be a clean out of senior players, it should have been done in Terrys first or even second year at the club, not at the start of the season where thhose 2004 picks turn into third year players.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

All this talk about Kelleway and Gaspar not being skilled enough is balderdash. They arent highly skilled, so what? For starters, who is? Our skills have been what have let us down this year, so why push all the blame onto these two when its not their fault? Chris Hyde, Greg Tivendale, Shane Tuck, even the great Matthew Richardson have all been serial offenders with their poor foot skills and poor delivery into the forward line, so why not cut all of those players as well?

We NEED Kelleway down back for the next two seasons. He is the hard-nut, he is the guy making all the spoils, his courage is inspirational and he is as fit as anyone in the team. Gaspar is also important. He can hold important players while the likes of Bowden x2 and others do the creating and setting up. Thats not their job.

It is way to late to be making some bulls*** stand like this. When Terry took over they claimed it would be five years until we challenged for a flag, not five years until we made the eight. We will go backwards if we get rid of these two. We must develop players this season who can take their spots over the coming seasons.

Terry has done a few dumb things since being at Richmond, but this would just be outrageous, especially after losing two magnificant players in Stafford and Chaffey.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

There will no doubt be a tear in my eye this afternoon when Stafford walks off the field for the final time, and Chaffey ofcourse, but Stafford is the one closer to my heart. He has been more than a servant, he has been a real f***in rock in our side since he joined and I wish he had of experienced some success, but im sure he will sing the song aloud one final time with as much effort as ever this afternoon.