Steve Waugh to be sacked as ODI captain

[Briedis]

Watch this space

From our wire services
News Interactive
13feb02

THE Australian Cricket Board has called a press conference for a "major announcement" amid growing speculation that Steve Waugh will be replaced as captain of Australia's one-day team.

The ACB says the announcement will take place at the SCG at 2.30pm with Waugh and ACB chief James Sutherland present.

The press conference comes on the eve of Waugh's departure to lead Australia on the three Test tour to South Africa.

Those Test matches will be followed by a six match one-day international series and the squad for that series has yet to be announced.

I think that this may be a good idea - but it is a bit harsh considering that without the bonus point system Australia would have finished on top, crushed SA in the finals and there would be no talk of Steve's sacking at all.:rolleyes:

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Briedis
Watch this space

From our wire services
News Interactive
13feb02

THE Australian Cricket Board has called a press conference for a "major announcement" amid growing speculation that Steve Waugh will be replaced as captain of Australia's one-day team.

The ACB says the announcement will take place at the SCG at 2.30pm with Waugh and ACB chief James Sutherland present.

The press conference comes on the eve of Waugh's departure to lead Australia on the three Test tour to South Africa.

Those Test matches will be followed by a six match one-day international series and the squad for that series has yet to be announced.

I think that this may be a good idea - but it is a bit harsh considering that without the bonus point system Australia would have finished on top, crushed SA in the finals and there would be no talk of Steve's sacking at all.:rolleyes:

I agree with you

But it will also act to extend his test match career significantly


Do you think he will carry on as a player if slected for ODI's or just reitre form internation one day cricket.

Very interesting

[Jars458]

This is from the ABS News Online site

I think Ponting will have to replace him as Warne's form has been ordinary. Or mabye LEHMANN!!!!!!!!!!


Australian cricket captain Steve Waugh has been stripped of the captaincy of the national one-day side.

Waugh is set to follow the path of his predecessor Mark Taylor who was replaced by Waugh as the one-day captain in 1997.

That decision reinvigorated the team in their build-up towards the 1999 World Cup victory.

Waugh is Australia's most experienced one-day player but the selectors have shown there is no room for sentiment in their approach to successfully defending the World Cup next year.

Waugh has called a press conference for later this afternoon.

There is no news yet on who will replace Waugh as captain of the one-day side.

[Spogs]

Terry Jenner tipped this last night on C7. His mail was that Darren Lehmann would replace Waugh as captain of the ODI side.

He actually tipped this a month or so ago before Boof was even back in the side so I don't think this is a spur of the moment decision. They were saying last night that the mood in the dressing room is very tense at the moment and there are a few players (Gilchrest maybe one of them) no completely happy with Waugh's attitude on and off the field.

I personnally don't think that Ponting is ready to captain the side and it wouldn't be fair to throw him in now just before the WC anyway, particularly if the teams harmony isn't quite right.

[Darky]

YES GOT HIM! Piss off you're out. :D :D :D

[dennisismyhero]

Originally posted by Spogs
His mail was that Darren Lehmann would replace Waugh as captain of the ODI side.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

[Spogs]

How can you not like Boof Lehmann. What's not to like. Anyway make the most of him because more than likely he'll be the last non production line cricketer we see in the national side for a while.

[gPhonque]

"Steve Waugh to be sacked as ODI captain."

Woohoo!

Can we then sack him from the Test team as well?

And can he please take his brother with him?


Lehmann would be a fantastic captain. I'd be pleasantly suprised if he became captain. My faith in the selectors would finally be restored.

Ponting as captain of Australia? You've gotta be kidding.

Warne? Nup.

Gilchrist? Haha!

Mark Waugh? No comment.

Hayden? Not a captain.

McGrath? Nup.

Martyn? Errr......nup.


Lehmann it is!


I may even start barracking for the Aussies once again!


Giving him the captaincy would basically amount to an apology for not having him in the ****ing team (both teams) for the past 7 or 8 years.

The guy is a better player/thinker than anyone else currently playing in Australia. And that includes Steve "Mr Overrated Hack" Waugh.

In fact, Lehmann should be captain of the Test side as well.

[Briedis]

Steve Waugh doesn't deserve that gPhonque....I bet you were cheering him a year ago when the Aussie side was unbeatable in both form of the game.:rolleyes:

I'd be surprised if Lehmann was picked considering his limited experience in ODIs, not his fault I know....

Gilchrist looks like the logical choice as he is VC of the test side and it would be a good "audition" for him for the top job of test captain, but I'm not convinced of his skills as a captain. I think he should be given a go though....

[dogboy23]

Geez the guys bleeds green and gold and single handedly won us the last world cup and he cops this crap.Fair enough if his performances wernt up to scratch but atleast give him a good send off.Lehamn captaining has a Pakistani feel to it.Not in the side one day and captain the next.Would rather Gilly or Warney(form permitting).I actually thought Steve was alright in the one dayers scoring alot of 30s though.Certainly asks a few questions as to what the composition of the team will be now and who will be captain.Will M.Waugh be allowed to stay now?Will we have the fear factor of other teams especially South Africa now that Steve is gone?

[Catman]

Originally posted by Briedis
but I'm not convinced of his skills as a captain. I think he should be given a go though....

Obviously the ACB aren't convinced of Steve Waugh's skills as a captain anymore either, if they have sacked him as captain of the One Day side, how strong is his position as Test Captain then?

[SeinDude]

Originally posted by Catman


Obviously the ACB aren't convinced of Steve Waugh's skills as a captain anymore either, if they have sacked him as captain of the One Day side, how strong is his position as Test Captain then?

Catman,

I dont think that has anything to do with the ACB making this tough decision. As with what happened to Mark Taylor, the selectors realise that the one-day team wasn't working as it should with Waugh as captain, and lets face it, ODI cricket is a young man's game. We are preparing to defend the world cup next year, and this is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

I would like to see them give the captaincy to Ricky Ponting, simply to get him ready for when he takes over as test captain.

SeinDude

[Briedis]

Originally posted by dogboy23
Will we have the fear factor of other teams especially South Africa now that Steve is gone?

Will the Aussie team lose that "fighting" spirit now that he is gone?

I can't see any captain-like qualities in Ponting. I don't know why his name is always mentioned. Great bat, but very inconsistent...then again maybe the responsibility of captaining his country will help him....

[hilly]

Originally posted by Darky
YES GOT HIM! Piss off you're out. :D :D :D

:confused:

Thanks for a great career at ODI level Steve :) This decision should benefit all parties......it will hopefully freshen up the one day team and will allow Waugh to concentrate on the test form of the game

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by gPhonque
"Steve Waugh to be sacked as ODI captain."

Woohoo!

Can we then sack him from the Test team as well?



Lehmann it is!


I may even start barracking for the Aussies once again!


Giving him the captaincy would basically amount to an apology for not having him in the ****ing team (both teams) for the past 7 or 8 years.

The guy is a better player/thinker than anyone else currently playing in Australia. And that includes Steve "Mr Overrated Hack" Waugh.



This is one of the more pitiful comments I have ever read on these boards.

Your comments are idiotic, ill informed and disgraceful.

It all well and good to suggest there may be a better alternative as captain than Steve Waugh. Fair enough if you can substantiate your argument.

But to call him an over-rated hack and say you might support the Australian cricket team again if he goes just means that you cannot be a true supporter of the Australian team. Have you forgotten how much Steve Waugh has done for Australian cricket over 17 years of international representation. We can talk world cup victories, test match winning streaks, batting average 50+ and most recently a 3-0 whiewash of South Africa to confirm our status as the number 1 test nation in the world.

Further none in my years of watching cricket have worn the baggy green cap with as much pride as Steve Waugh and not many more would be as feared as an opponent on the world stage.

It may very well be time to hand over the reigns to someone else and if that is the case then good luck to the incumbent. But also Goodluck to Steve Waugh and many many thanks for all the fantastic memories he provided us at ODI level and I certainly hope he continues at test level at least.

[BW]

Very harsh. This should be a time to congratulate him on a fantastic one day career. I think his knockers on this board are forgetting about his 120 n.o against South Arica in the world cup, as without that knock we wouldnt of won the world cup.

I do think it was the correct decision, but well done Steve ur a champion and should play Test Cricket for a while yet.

from baggygreen:

Stephen Waugh out of one-day team
Australian Cricket Board - 13 February 2002


Stephen Waugh will not be selected in the Australian one-day international team to tour South Africa and Zimbabwe in March, it was announced today.

The decision to omit Waugh from the one-day team was taken by the National Selection panel of Trevor Hohns (Chairman), Allan Border, David Boon and Andrew Hilditch.

ACB Chief Executive, James Sutherland, said that in making the decision the selectors were meeting their obligation to put their judgement on the needs of the team ahead of all other considerations.

"The selectors have one primary obligation to Australian cricket and that is to pick the team that in their judgement is the best side to represent our country. As difficult as it might be, they have taken this decision to fulfil this obligation," said Mr Sutherland.

Since making his debut in the shortened form of the game in December 1985, Waugh has made 325 one-day appearances, the last of them in the VB Series clash against South Africa in Perth on 3 February, an Australian record.

Only India's Mohammad Azharuddin (334 matches) has played more one-day matches, with Australia's next most capped one-day player Border with 273 appearances.

Only one other player, in addition to Waugh and Azharuddin - Pakistan's Wasim Akram (323) - has topped 300 one-day matches for his country.

Stephen Waugh said that he was disappointed by the decision but would be working to regain his place in the team.

"Of course this is an extremely disappointing decision. The challenge for me is to now ensure that the Australian Test team wins the series against South Africa and to play well enough to force my way back into the one-day team," said Waugh.

Chairman of Selectors, Trevor Hohns, said it had been a tough decision to make.

"Making this decision has been extremely difficult and it is not one that anyone likes but as selectors our responsibility is to pick what we believe to be the best side for Australia. We believe that there are now players ahead of Steve for one-day selection," said Mr Hohns.

"After reflecting on the VB Series, we decided that for the one-day side to continue to be successful and to prepare for the 2003 World Cup, it was time to make this change.

"There is no ideal time to announce a decision like this, but by making the change now we hope that it will give the new captain a chance to step up and grow into the role well before next February.

"It will also allow us to consult with that person so that he can have some input into the side that contests the one-day series in South Africa beginning next month."

In announcing the decision, Mr Sutherland also highlighted Stephen Waugh's contribution to the one-day team.

"Stephen has made an outstanding contribution to one-day cricket in this country as one-day captain over the past four years and has played a major part in building Australia's record in this form of the game."

Waugh has captained Australia in 106 limited-overs matches with 67 wins, 35 losses, three ties and one no-result. Only six players have led their country more often in one-day cricket.

With the bat, Waugh's 7569 runs at 32.90 is the second highest aggregate by an Australian player, eclipsed only by his brother Mark, who has 8500 runs at 39.35 from 244 matches.

Stephen also has 195 wickets to his credit in one-day internationals, leaving him 18th on the list of all-time leading wicket-takers in that form of the game. Of Australians, only Shane Warne (268) and Glenn McGrath (226) are ahead of him.

Waugh also has two World Cup winning medals to his credit, first as part of Border's side that beat England in Calcutta in 1987, then as captain when he led the team to a final win over Pakistan at Lord's in 1999.

That 1999 tournament also included Waugh's highest score in one-day internationals, an unbeaten 120 against South Africa at Headingley in a must-win game for his side, one of three one-day hundreds he has scored.

The selectors will as soon as practicable recommend a captain and vice-captain to the Australian Cricket Board's 14 Directors while the squad for the seven one-day internationals to be played against South Africa starting in Johannesburg on Friday 22 March will be named in due course.

Waugh will depart for South Africa with the rest of the Test squad on Thursday 14 February.

[Rocky]

WAUGH HAS BEEN SACKED????????

[WCE2000]

Well im dissapointed in taking such drastic action after one bad series, but i had this bad feeling it was going to happen :(:(

However, maybe it is for the better, but i feel Mark should've gone before Steve did in the one dayers. Mark will go soon from both teams with Watson coming into the test team.

I have a feeling it could be a while before Steve is gone from the test team though. But what a brilliant career he has had in the one day form. The best one day allrounder Australia has had.

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Originally posted by gPhonque
"Steve Waugh to be sacked as ODI captain."

Woohoo!

Can we then sack him from the Test team as well?

And can he please take his brother with him?

The guy is a better player/thinker than anyone else currently playing in Australia. And that includes Steve "Mr Overrated Hack" Waugh.



Your an absolute disgrace.
Moronic comment. :rolleyes:

Even Darky (who has some psychological vendetta against Waugh) atleast kept his gloating at other people's misfortune to one-line.

"Overrated hack?" :rolleyes:
You should show some respect the man that has done so much with the side since he has taken over. The man that basically won us the World Cup, the man that lead us to 16 test wins in a row. The man who is Australia's second-highest run-scorer of all-time.
Overrated indeed! :rolleyes:

The meomery of the Australian public is very dim...

Congrats on your one-day career Steve.

[RogerC]

I've been gunning for this decision for a while now, and I'm very pleased it's happened.

Not that I don't think Steve Waugh has been a great player and captain. He has. He'll never rate as high as Border for me, because he inherited a team ready to dominate; all he had to do was keep them together, and keep them in that winning frame of mind. But what he has failed to do (and we'll see the results of this in about two or three years) is prepare for the future of the test team.

People like Lehmann should have been test regulars before now. Hayden's return is too late - it cost him at least two or three years of test cricket. Martyn was ignored for too long. We had a big bubble of talent coming through for four or five years, and we couldn't fit them all in to the test side. Count them - Elliott, Blewett, Hayden, Martyn, Slater, Lehmann, both Waughs, Ponting, Gilchrist, Hussey, Bevan, I'm sure I've missed a couple. All batsmen vying for test spots in the same era - there's at least two quality test batting line-ups there. Apart from Hussey and Ponting, they've all hit their thirties now.

The quality coming through is there, but it's nowhere near as strong. We need new blood, and soon, or in three years Ponting will be presiding over a bunch of guys with a bit of talent and no experience. It'll be like the mid 80's all over again.

I'm not saying Waugh is responsible for this, but he is responsible for repeating the mantra that the game is professional now, and players should be allowed to play for as long as they can.

Katich should have played at least ten tests by now. Hussey should have at least been tried. But the approach has been to nurse guys like Mark Waugh through form slumps. Why? He's thirty six, he'll be back in form just in time to retire. While poor old Katich is left to twiddle his thumbs at state level.

Steve's being eased out of both forms of the game. His stated aim of leading us to the next world cup looks a forlorn one. He's been very ambitious, not only for his team but also for himself, and he needs to be shown the bigger picture once in a while. He talks about being given the chance to prove himslelf, and having the right to go out in the way he sees fit. He should have had that in mind while he was helping orchestrate Taylor's retirement.

His recent comments have been glossed over a bit, but seriously, they are no way for an Australian captain to behave. He attacks the media, then wonders why they turn on him.

I think the guy needs a rest. Good work, well done, etc. But why not give him the arse, the same way Border, Taylor, Boon, Healy got the arse.

[Macca19]

Good

thats all i have to say about it

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by NICK THE PIE MAN


Your an absolute disgrace.
Moronic comment. :rolleyes:

Ah....because you disagree with it, that makes me a disgrace.

Ok. Whatever you say.

It'd be a pretty boring world if we all agreed with each other...

Even Darky (who has some psychological vendetta against Waugh) atleast kept his gloating at other people's misfortune to one-line.

"Other peoples misfortune" ????

Well excuse me for not crying away my day because Waugh has been/is getting sacked as captain of the ODI side.

I've never cared for the way he plays the game, the way presents himself to the public, OR his captaincy, and if i want to call him an overrated hack, i will do so whenever i damn well please. (by the way, i don't really think he's that much of an overrated hack. Just a little bit. But couple that with the fact that i don't particularly like the guy and you might begin to understand how one could be happy upon hearing the news of his inevitable sacking.)


Oh, and would you like to know what i think of MARK Waugh? :eek: ;)


"Overrated hack?" :rolleyes:
You should show some respect the man that has done so much with the side since he has taken over. The man that basically won us the World Cup, the man that lead us to 16 test wins in a row. The man who is Australia's second-highest run-scorer of all-time.
Overrated indeed! :rolleyes:

Respect? lol

Am i not allowed to dislike him? I have that right don't i?

The meomery of the Australian public is very dim...


Not mine. He's bored the crap out of me for over 10 years now.

The end is finally nearing......

[GOALden Hawk]

Congrats to Steve Waugh on a great career...and who's to say it's not over yet? Everyone had written off Boof after he was dropped from the one-day squad last year - now he is a potential captain.

I agree with dogboy23, you can't just have someone come from out of the side to national captain after one game!!! Don't get me wrong - Lehmann should have been in the side all along, but as captain??? Where is the long term vision and planning in this? At best we would get 4 years out of Lehmann and then would need another captain before the 2007 World Cup.

To me the only option is Ponting - Gilchrist would struggle with the burden of opening/keeping and captaining - and Ponting has age on his side.

But of course Sutherland said quite clearly others were to go - one can assume Mark Waugh - any other candidates?

[BomberBoy]

I've always like Steve Waugh. Personally hes been a good captain, but in the last year he hasnt been the same. I hope he fights to get back in because that will make him a better player, but i also hope he knows when his time is up...

[SeinDude]

Good luck to Steve Waugh for the remainder of his cricketing career. He has been a great leader, a great player and someone to look up to. I hope he can maintain his form in the test arena and keep the Aussies on top of the game for a few more years to come!! :):)

SeinDude

[mrboy]

gphonque

your comments are rude disrepectful and unaustralian.

you dont deserve to live in australia.

[iceman]

I wouldve thought that Mark Waugh shouldve gone before Steve, but there always going to be some changes to the team after the ODI

Theres no way that S.Waugh will get back into the One day team, and its time everyone said their good byes to M.Waugh and maybe even S.Warne

[dogboy23]

Originally posted by gPhonque


Ah....because you disagree with it, that makes me a disgrace.

Ok. Whatever you say.

It'd be a pretty boring world if we all agreed with each other...

[/b]

"Other peoples misfortune" ????

Well excuse me for not crying away my day because Waugh has been/is getting sacked as captain of the ODI side.

I've never cared for the way he plays the game, the way presents himself to the public, OR his captaincy, and if i want to call him an overrated hack, i will do so whenever i damn well please. (by the way, i don't really think he's that much of an overrated hack. Just a little bit. But couple that with the fact that i don't particularly like the guy and you might begin to understand how one could be happy upon hearing the news of his inevitable sacking.)


Oh, and would you like to know what i think of MARK Waugh? :eek: ;)


[/b]

Respect? lol

Am i not allowed to dislike him? I have that right don't i?



Not mine. He's bored the crap out of me for over 10 years now.

The end is finally nearing...... [/B]Not liking him is one thing but atleast show the guy some respect.He may be just a sportsman but he has done nothing to you to deserve such criticism and always tries his heart out for the green and gold.Shows how much you know about the game really.This will be the last post I address to you.

[Darky]

Originally posted by dogboy23
He may be just a sportsman

A cricketer - yes.
Over the last 10 years a very fine cricketer - probably.

A sportsman he ain't.

I thought RogerC summed it up beautifully, speaking at length where I couldn't be stuffed elaborating.

Many people were savage on Mark Taylor's batting form slump, even though his captaincy remained astute. Fair enough I guess, but the team was winning matches so the change wasn't absolutely urgent. Also Taylor was in his early 30s, and had time to regain form, which he did (Australian record score 334no). However, Steve Waugh was very negative in the media at the time, often hinting that Taylor should be dropped (gee, wouldn't be for self-interest, eh Steve?).

It's turned full circle and Captain Red Ink's on the other side of the fence. Me and Tubby will be waving at you with one finger, Steve.

[dogboy23]

Originally posted by Darky


A cricketer - yes.
Over the last 10 years a very fine cricketer - probably.

A sportsman he ain't.

I thought RogerC summed it up beautifully, speaking at length where I couldn't be stuffed elaborating.

Many people were savage on Mark Taylor's batting form slump, even though his captaincy remained astute. Fair enough I guess, but the team was winning matches so the change wasn't absolutely urgent. Also Taylor was in his early 30s, and had time to regain form, which he did (Australian record score 334no). However, Steve Waugh was very negative in the media at the time, often hinting that Taylor should be dropped (gee, wouldn't be for self-interest, eh Steve?).

It's turned full circle and Captain Red Ink's on the other side of the fence. Me and Tubby will be waving at you with one finger, Steve. Hey im not saying it wasnt time for a change but i do think he has done enough to be treated with respect.

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by dogboy23
This will be the last post I address to you.

Excellent!

One less idiot i have to talk to who can't handle another person's opinion.

I'm very sorry that i don't respect somebody just because they can hit a ****ing ball.

cheers

[Briedis]

Originally posted by gPhonque


Excellent!

One less idiot i have to talk to who can't handle another person's opinion.

I'm very sorry that i don't respect somebody just because they can hit a ****ing ball.

cheers

He has done more than just hit a ball. He has shown qualities of leadership,determination and pure guts at times that should inspire us all.

Australia will be a poorer cricket side without him.

[BMD]

Well, the selectors have bitten the bullet again.
They've been right before - they sacked Taylor from the one day team, forced Border into retirement, eased Healy and Boon out of the team before they really wanted to go.

They were proved right before, hopefully they'll be right again. Better to sack him too soon than too late I guess.

I'm assuming from Trevor Hohns' comments that there will be more changes. M Waugh is certainly gone I would think. Don't like Harvey or Symonds' chances of going to South Africa either. Warney would have to be under pressure.

As for captain, I'm not sure. Ponting doesn't seem captaincy material to me, and they usually don't give the job to the wicket keeper. Which leaves Lehmann basically. What a turn around that would be.

Darky, I never saw S Waugh making any hints about Taylor being dropped. Not letting your dislike of him cloud your memory are you?

gPhonque, you don't have to like him, but to call him an overrated hack is quite frankly ridiculous. His record speaks for itself.

I've been a fan since he made his debut for NSW, so it just brings forward the inevitable day when he's not playing for Australia any more. I'll miss him even if some won't.

[dogboy23]

Originally posted by BMD



I'm assuming from Trevor Hohns' comments that there will be more changes. M Waugh is certainly gone I would think. Don't like Harvey or Symonds' chances of going to South Africa either. Warney would have to be under pressure.

As for captain, I'm not sure. Ponting doesn't seem captaincy Wouldnt think that Harvey or Symonds would tour although one of them might.Not sure about Mark Waugh I would rather a right hander bat with Gilly.Hayden and Elliots credentials in one dayers are questionable and everyone else is untried.Would like to see a bit of new blood though where possible.;) Captaincy will be the tough one.Punters not up to it IMO and Warneys no certainty for a game.Gilly is burnt out already but only he will know if he is capable of handling it.Personally dont like the idea of a keeper as skipper.

[Visro]

Was reported on ten news last night, that the ACB told Hussey and Williams to get visas ready. Make what you will from that...

[dogboy23]

Originally posted by Visro
Was reported on ten news last night, that the ACB told Hussey and Williams to get visas ready. Make what you will from that... Hussey deserves a go I reckon.Personally i have never rated as high as some but he has consistently made runs and can bat anywhere in the order so good luck to him.

[Briedis]

Originally posted by dogboy23
Wouldnt think that Harvey or Symonds would tour although one of them might.Not sure about Mark Waugh I would rather a right hander bat with Gilly.Hayden and Elliots credentials in one dayers are questionable and everyone else is untried.Would like to see a bit of new blood though where possible.;) Captaincy will be the tough one.Punters not up to it IMO and Warneys no certainty for a game.Gilly is burnt out already but only he will know if he is capable of handling it.Personally dont like the idea of a keeper as skipper.

Harvey won't go - he IS a hack.

I'd give Symonds another chance. He's still quite young, can bowl and take wickets, his batting is superb when he is confident and his fielding is up there with Punter.

If there is to be more changes then I think Warne will be cut, he has performed badly this summer in ODIs.

Gilly will get the ODI captaincy I reckon if Warne is dropped, otherwise I think they may give it to Warne considering he has a good record captaining ODIs for Australia. (90% win rate)

One thing to consider is how S. Waughs sacking will affect morale in the test side.....hopefully negligable, but should have been a consideration.

[Jars458]

Originally posted by gPhonque


AhAm i not allowed to dislike him? I have that right don't i?



Not mine. He's bored the crap out of me for over 10 years now.

The end is finally nearing...... [/B]

Yes you have the right

And we have the right to state that you are an idiot for saying it

You are rational on most things but this is rubbish

ok - you don't like him - that's fair enough

But his record does SPEAK for itself

Yes you can be happy he was sacked

but calling him a HACK????????/


Ridiculous.

Yes you have the right to make a fool of yourself!:D

[Dippers Donuts]

Can't say I'm all that unhappy to see Steve Waugh out of the one day side, well past his best in this form of the game.

I think he will stay in the test side for some time, he is desperate to protect his precious 50 test average...

In my opinion Mark Waugh is gawn from the ODI side and that's a good thing.

I would open the batting with Martyn and Hayden and drop Gilly down to 6. Doing this would alleviate some of the pressure on him and would allow the selectors to make him one day (and then test) captain.

Warne wont be made one day captain - he is also on thin ice when it comes to being dropped, Ponting is simply not captaincy material.

Thus my one day side is as follows;

Martyn
Hayden
Ponting
Lehmann
Bevan
Gilchrist
Watson
Warne
Lee (B)
Gillespie
McGrath

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts
Can't say I'm all that unhappy to see Steve Waugh out of the one day side, well past his best in this form of the game.

I think he will stay in the test side for some time, he is desperate to protect his precious 50 test average...

In my opinion Mark Waugh is gawn from the ODI side and that's a good thing.

I would open the batting with Martyn and Hayden and drop Gilly down to 6. Doing this would alleviate some of the pressure on him and would allow the selectors to make him one day (and then test) captain.

Warne wont be made one day captain - he is also on thin ice when it comes to being dropped, Ponting is simply not captaincy material.

Thus my one day side is as follows;

Martyn
Hayden
Ponting
Lehmann
Bevan
Gilchrist
Watson
Warne
Lee (B)
Gillespie
McGrath

Thanks god you're not a selector...

Gilly's worth is at the top of the order when the fielding restriction are in place. He would get caught too often at number 6.

Don't agree at all on M. Waugh. Average of 80 in ODIs in 2001 including 6 100s is hardly poor form. Surely we can forgive a plyer who has provided so much for the team for one below-par series. Don't forget Gilly was the worst-performing batsman of the lot....why don't you pick on him?

[campbell]

I don't think anyone is saying Steve Waugh was not a great Australian Captain at both levels. I think the problem is that he has tactically slipped in the last year and a half.
When we played the South Africans in Perth we were at a Junior Cricket carnival. The topic was the Aussie One day performances this season. If these qualified coaches can see the blazing tactical errors then the ACB would be able to even more faults.
What is sad is that this ultimate cricketer is leaving his carrer on a decline. Its the hardest thing to watch as an outsider, when a player of any sport is aging and doesn't want to give it away.
As for the rest of the team
My thoughts are.
Boof for captain. The ulitmate tactician.part time spinner
Gilly
Ponting
Martyn
Bevan
Watson, medium fast bowler
Hayden or Langer or both
Jimmy Maher or Katich, left arm bowler
McGrath
Bichel
Lee or Gillespie

Out
M Waugh just plain not good enough any more.
Warne currently lacking in ODI form. We can't afford to carry a spinner who can cost 60 runs per game.
Harvey

[Dippers Donuts]

Originally posted by Briedis


Thanks god you're not a selector...

Gilly's worth is at the top of the order when the fielding restriction are in place. He would get caught too often at number 6.

Don't agree at all on M. Waugh. Average of 80 in ODIs in 2001 including 6 100s is hardly poor form. Surely we can forgive a plyer who has provided so much for the team for one below-par series. Don't forget Gilly was the worst-performing batsman of the lot....why don't you pick on him?

Mark Waugh did well in 2001 only against very ordinary opposition (Zimbabwe and WI); I recall all the aussie batsman made hay against this lot last year.

He should have been dropped a long time ago, it's cyclical with him - perform poorly for a long time then just when he is about to be dropped he makes a century. At nearly 37 this cannot continue.

Gilchrist is being exposed against the new ball these days. Bowlers have worked out that he leaves too large a gap between bat and pad. They are now zeroing in on this area and consequently he looks somewhat brittle against the new ball (especially left arm quicks). Drop him down to 6/7 where can thrash the older ball, that's his specialty.

You might want to take off your Blues tinged glasses...

[BMD]

Originally posted by campbell
I don't think anyone is saying Steve Waugh was not a great Australian Captain at both levels. I think the problem is that he has tactically slipped in the last year and a half.
When we played the South Africans in Perth we were at a Junior Cricket carnival. The topic was the Aussie One day performances this season. If these qualified coaches can see the blazing tactical errors then the ACB would be able to even more faults.
What is sad is that this ultimate cricketer is leaving his carrer on a decline. Its the hardest thing to watch as an outsider, when a player of any sport is aging and doesn't want to give it away.
As for the rest of the team
My thoughts are.
Boof for captain. The ulitmate tactician.part time spinner
Gilly
Ponting
Martyn
Bevan
Watson, medium fast bowler
Hayden or Langer or both
Jimmy Maher or Katich, left arm bowler
McGrath
Bichel
Lee or Gillespie

Out
M Waugh just plain not good enough any more.
Warne currently lacking in ODI form. We can't afford to carry a spinner who can cost 60 runs per game.
Harvey

Have to disagree with this, the main reason Australia lost games this summer was poor batting. Most of the batsman had poor summers, I don't think Steve Waugh takes much responsibility for that personally.

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts


Mark Waugh did well in 2001 only against very ordinary opposition (Zimbabwe and WI); I recall all the aussie batsman made hay against this lot last year.



You seem to have forgotton that we also played India, Pakistan and England all away from home in 2001....:rolleyes:

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts

Gilchrist is being exposed against the new ball these days. Bowlers have worked out that he leaves too large a gap between bat and pad. They are now zeroing in on this area and consequently he looks somewhat brittle against the new ball (especially left arm quicks). Drop him down to 6/7 where can thrash the older ball, that's his specialty.

You might want to take off your Blues tinged glasses...

The problem with what you are saying is that when the fielding restrictions finish he will be getting caught alot. Plus the fact that Hayden is more of a test player and needs the gaps of a test field to score heavily regularly, and Martyn to open??? His tecnique has been made suspect by the NZ first and second change bowlers...how do you think he'll go against the new ball bowlers?

BTW, I am PROUD of my blues-tinged glasses.....

[Visro]

Having Martyn opening instead is still dangerous. Marto likes playing his shots and with the field all up he would easily get out. M Waugh is gone and will be dropped next week and Gilly is all out of form opening with the bat.

It doesn't leave many options:

Hayden
Hussey
Elliot
Langer

I know I'm biased, but I would give Hussey a go. This 1-Day season he made 440 runs at an average of 55.0. In his overall 1-Day career he averages 43.78 and can also bowl a bit of medium pace. He just seems and ideal replacement, to me anyway...

[campbell]

Yep, our batting was very very poor. But the options made at selection were poor. Steve Waugh got who he asked for in each team, thats what he has said.
We have played players this season on reputation not form.Warne should have been dropped, both Waughs. Gilcrest had a shocker.
Steve Waugh should never have bowled in Perth, particularly when we had specialist bowlers, who hadn't used their overs.

[Dippers Donuts]

Originally posted by Briedis


You seem to have forgotton that we also played India, Pakistan and England all away from home in 2001....:rolleyes:

Two games in india (one dayers), 138 runs including one century; hardly conclusive...

One game in Kenya vs India score = 7.

5 one day games in England 129 runs at an average of 32, top score of 47.

Real heady stuff huh?:rolleyes:

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts


Two games in india (one dayers), 138 runs including one century; hardly conclusive...

One game in Kenya vs India score = 7.

5 one day games in England 129 runs at an average of 32, top score of 47.

Real heady stuff huh?:rolleyes:

What are you on?

Scoring one century out of two games in India is not worthy of selection? Averaging 32, which is around the general average for batsmen in ODIs, is not worthy of selection?

He had a sensational year, get over your anti-Blues syndrome and realise that Mark is a quality player, and has been for over 10 years for his country and DESERVES a chance to make up for one mediocre series.

Nothing is better than watching Mark Waugh in full flight. If you don't like watching him bat, then I seriously challenge your love for cricket....

[Dippers Donuts]

Originally posted by Briedis


What are you on?

Scoring one century out of two games in India is not worthy of selection? Averaging 32, which is around the general average for batsmen in ODIs, is not worthy of selection?

He had a sensational year, get over your anti-Blues syndrome and realise that Mark is a quality player, and has been for over 10 years for his country and DESERVES a chance to make up for one mediocre series.

Nothing is better than watching Mark Waugh in full flight. If you don't like watching him bat, then I seriously challenge your love for cricket....

No, 32 is not good enough for an opener in ODI's. 35 i might accept, 32 nup. Besides he used to average over 40 in ODI's, it's dropping steadily.

No anti blues syndrome champ...just a realist...

Yes Mark has been a quality player over the last 10 years...emphasis on the HAS...his time has come to go...accept it...

When did I say I didn't like watching him bat? Sure, nothing is better than watching Mark in full flight. I, like most cricket watchers have learned to be patient as Mark in full flight happens about every 2 years.

Accept reality mate.

[Briedis]

In his last 50 matches M Waugh has averaged 42....will you accept that?

His overall average is still 39.35 ...will you accept that?

Gilly's overall average is 34 and he averages almost the same over his last 50 matches. ....should he be dropped too?

Your claim that he averaged well over 40 and his average is falling fast is incorrect. He has only ever averaged 40 for three games in his career, which was during last years Natwest series in England. Since 1995 his average has RISEN by 5 runs.

His average has been around the 38-39.5 mark for the last three years which indicates a steady performance, but it has been RISING slowly.

I have accepted reality.:rolleyes:

I have a funny feeling you will answer "No" to the above questions.....;)

[Dippers Donuts]

Originally posted by Briedis
In his last 50 matches M Waugh has averaged 42....will you accept that?

His overall average is still 39.35 ...will you accept that?

Gilly's overall average is 34 and he averages almost the same over his last 50 matches. ....should he be dropped too?

Your claim that he averaged well over 40 and his average is falling fast is incorrect. He has only ever averaged 40 for three games in his career, which was during last years Natwest series in England. Since 1995 his average has RISEN by 5 runs.

His average has been around the 38-39.5 mark for the last three years which indicates a steady performance, but it has been RISING slowly.

I have accepted reality.:rolleyes:

I have a funny feeling you will answer "No" to the above questions.....;)

Well well, cricinfo has a fan...:rolleyes:

In his last 10 innings he has averaged 20...will you accept that?
So, I'm right...his average is RAPIDLY dropping (although I never said that previously...please read closer...)

When Mark Waugh can keep wickets as well as open the batting then I might consider keeping him (pun intended). You'll probably tell me now that Mark is a great keeper too...

So nup you can't drop Gilly, he's the keeper as well right? Plus he's 6 years younger (longevity occur to you?).

That's the reality, not only that it's the current reality.

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts


Well well, cricinfo has a fan...:rolleyes:


Sorry next time I'll just make wild claims without actually checking the facts, like yourself. :D

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts

In his last 10 innings he has averaged 20...will you accept that?
So, I'm right...his average is RAPIDLY dropping (although I never said that previously...please read closer...)


Well then, I will stick to my original statement and be thankful you are not a selector as 10 bad games means more to you than 10 years of excellent performances over which time he has steadily increased his average....even with the last 10 bad games.

Whatever happened to sticking with quality players though a bad time?

Why should we go with untried talent at international level when we have a proven performer?

Wouldn't it be better to phase in new talent instead of giving the old guys the arse unceremoniously?

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts

When Mark Waugh can keep wickets as well as open the batting then I might consider keeping him (pun intended). You'll probably tell me now that Mark is a great keeper too...

So nup you can't drop Gilly, he's the keeper as well right? Plus he's 6 years younger (longevity occur to you?).

That's the reality, not only that it's the current reality.

If you think Gilly is in the side because of the quality of his keeping you are fooling yourself. There are far better keepers in the country. He is there because his wicket-keeping is quite good, but his BATTING can be explosive. If his batting goes out the door, then his value diminishes. I was simply stating that Waugh has performed better than others in the side and over a longer period of time.....I do not think Gilly should be dropped at all.

[Dippers Donuts]

Originally posted by Briedis


Sorry next time I'll just make wild claims without actually checking the facts, like yourself. :D



Well then, I will stick to my original statement and be thankful you are not a selector as 10 bad games means more to you than 10 years of excellent performances over which time he has steadily increased his average....even with the last 10 bad games.

Whatever happened to sticking with quality players though a bad time?

Why should we go with untried talent at international level when we have a proven performer?

Wouldn't it be better to phase in new talent instead of giving the old guys the arse unceremoniously?



If you think Gilly is in the side because of the quality of his keeping you are fooling yourself. There are far better keepers in the country. He is there because his wicket-keeping is quite good, but his BATTING can be explosive. If his batting goes out the door, then his value diminishes. I was simply stating that Waugh has performed better than others in the side and over a longer period of time.....I do not think Gilly should be dropped at all.

You're good at reading things into my posts that I never stated...

I never stated Gilchrist was in the side for the quality of his keeping. Where do you pull this stuff from?

Hayden, Lehmann untried talent at international? Right...
Mark Waugh a recent proven performer? Yeah right.

You said:
Wouldn't it be better to phase in new talent instead of giving the old guys the arse unceremoniously?

Thank god you're not a selector...
Seems the selectors agree with me;)

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by Briedis
Nothing is better than watching Mark Waugh in full flight. If you don't like watching him bat, then I seriously challenge your love for cricket....

Christ.....you really can't accept other peoples opinions can you?

I guess i have no love for the game at all purely because i can't stand both Mark and Steve Waugh.

I hate Mark Waughs batting. Too lazy. Always looks like he's a chance of getting out. And more often than not, he does get out in a typically soft fashion. Why can't you understand that some people may NOT like the Waughs? (both on and off the field.)

According to you, anybody who doesn't share your opinion on the Waughs doesn't love the game as much as you.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. Much more ridiculous than saying "Steve Waugh is an overrated hack."

Besides - you're questioning people who are on a cricket board about their love of the game. :confused: You should know that i realise Steve Waugh has had a successful career. But he's over it now. And the fact that he's just been dumped from the ODI side shows that i'm not alone in my opinion of his value in the team. (and the fact that i don't particular like the guy either on or off the field means that i'm not about to start paying my respects to a fantastic career. I'm actually happy that he's gone. I'm sorry if that offends you, but too bad.)

The point i was making - is (or was) Steve Waugh taking up a spot that somebody else could fit into, purely on his reputation? And the answer was, obviously, YES. Therefore, the very fact that he was in the side would mean that at this (or that) particular point in time, he is/was overrated. Perhaps i could have left out the "hack" part, but i didn't think (although i should have known better) that everyone was going to take it so seriously. And besides that, "overrated hack" has a nice ring to it....

Steve Waugh was a very lucky cricketer, especially when he became captain. People look at Australia over the past few years as being some kind of super fantastic team. I look at Australia over the past few years as being the best team out of a number of very average teams. Hence my belief that Steve Waugh is not really as good as everybody says. Particularly as a captain.

cheers

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts


You're good at reading things into my posts that I never stated...

I never stated Gilchrist was in the side for the quality of his keeping. Where do you pull this stuff from?


My point was relating to your statement about Gilly being the keeper as well. I don't think Gilchrist is there for his keeping ability, but on his batting.

Originally posted by Dippers Donuts

Hayden, Lehmann untried talent at international? Right...
Mark Waugh a recent proven performer? Yeah right.

You said:


Thank god you're not a selector...
Seems the selectors agree with me;)

OK. M. Waugh has not performed in the last ten games, but he has had a very good run for the 12 months prior to that and to me that is still recent. He will bounce back I'm sure.

The selectors have not dropped M. Waugh yet, so I don't see how the selectors agree with you.

I didn't mean Hayden and Lehmann, I was thinking more long term. Lehmann especially is nearing the end of his career. But you probably right in that these two will get a game in the ODI side.

I'm not too sure of Haydens abilities in the one day game, he did well in India, but really struggled in this series and seems more suited to the more open field placements of the test arena. Definately worth trying for the next few series though.

If thy are going to drop Steve (which they have) and Mark Waugh I would hope that they are doing with the thought of trying to blood some younger players for the future...as well as playing Lehmann.

[Briedis]

Originally posted by gPhonque


Christ.....you really can't accept other peoples opinions can you?

I guess i have no love for the game at all purely because i can't stand both Mark and Steve Waugh.

I hate Mark Waughs batting. Too lazy. Always looks like he's a chance of getting out. And more often than not, he does get out in a typically soft fashion. Why can't you understand that some people may NOT like the Waughs? (both on and off the field.)

According to you, anybody who doesn't share your opinion on the Waughs doesn't love the game as much as you.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. Much more ridiculous than saying "Steve Waugh is an overrated hack."

Besides - you're questioning people who are on a cricket board about their love of the game. :confused: You should know that i realise Steve Waugh has had a successful career. But he's over it now. And the fact that he's just been dumped from the ODI side shows that i'm not alone in my opinion of his value in the team. (and the fact that i don't particular like the guy either on or off the field means that i'm not about to start paying my respects to a fantastic career. I'm actually happy that he's gone. I'm sorry if that offends you, but too bad.)

The point i was making - is (or was) Steve Waugh taking up a spot that somebody else could fit into, purely on his reputation? And the answer was, obviously, YES. Therefore, the very fact that he was in the side would mean that at this (or that) particular point in time, he is/was overrated. Perhaps i could have left out the "hack" part, but i didn't think (although i should have known better) that everyone was going to take it so seriously. And besides that, "overrated hack" has a nice ring to it....

Steve Waugh was a very lucky cricketer, especially when he became captain. People look at Australia over the past few years as being some kind of super fantastic team. I look at Australia over the past few years as being the best team out of a number of very average teams. Hence my belief that Steve Waugh is not really as good as everybody says. Particularly as a captain.

cheers

Still upset at the flak you got over your Steve Waugh comment.... that's funny! :D It was a silly comment and you deserved it, in my OPINION!!! :D

I can accept other peoples opinions, but that does not mean I can't submit my opinions as well does it? It's only a discussion... I value Dippers comments, otherwise I would not bother replying. Our opinions differ, so what? Why don't you have a go at him for not accepting my opinion either?

But seriously, if you have not been able to sit back and enjoy one of the most graceful batsmen in the last 10 years then I feel sorry for you. Gower-esque. Even Dipper could acknowledge that....

I'd hardly say a guy that averages 50 over a 15 year period is "lucky"....I don't know where you get this stuff from.:confused:

[Darky]

Originally posted by Briedis


I didn't mean Hayden and Lehmann, I was thinking more long term. Lehmann especially is nearing the end of his career.

If thy are going to drop Steve (which they have) and Mark Waugh I would hope that they are doing with the thought of trying to blood some younger players for the future...as well as playing Lehmann.

If Lehmann is "nearing the end of his career" (despite still making a massive amount of runs) at age 32, what does that mean for Steve and Mark Waugh who are batting poorly and are nearing 37?

Unathletic types like Clive Lloyd, Viv Richards, Gordon Greenidge, Desmond Haynes, Allan Border, Graham Gooch, Arjuna Ranatunga, Javed Mianded were all very successful batsmen well into their mid to late 30s. The physical similarities are there with Lehmann, the history of scoring runs has been there for a long time (albeit not given much chance on the international stage), the form is definitely there at the moment... I see no reason why Lehmann would not be as effective in 4 years time as he is now.

If he's not, drop him. Fair's fair.

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Darky


If Lehmann is "nearing the end of his career" (despite still making a massive amount of runs) at age 32, what does that mean for Steve and Mark Waugh who are batting poorly and are nearing 37?

Unathletic types like Clive Lloyd, Viv Richards, Gordon Greenidge, Desmond Haynes, Allan Border, Graham Gooch, Arjuna Ranatunga, Javed Mianded were all very successful batsmen well into their mid to late 30s. The physical similarities are there with Lehmann, the history of scoring runs has been there for a long time (albeit not given much chance on the international stage), the form is definitely there at the moment... I see no reason why Lehmann would not be as effective in 4 years time as he is now.

If he's not, drop him. Fair's fair.

Your right, he might be fit enough and I think they will give him a go. But most player retire by the time they are 34 and it seems strange to drop guys who could play one more year for being too old, play a guy who could maybe go on for four years (if he's lucky) and still not develop any young players.

I hope they play Lehmann definately, but they also need to think about some younger players as well.

If you look at the Aussie batting line up, they are all 29+, apart from Ponting. I can't see all of these guys going on as long as the Waughs or any of the others you listed.

Watson is a step in the right direction, what about Klinger, Darky, any chance he might be ready to step up soon? Michael Clarke from NSW is one to watch too, he has looked promising this year....

[Kane McGoodwin]

With a view to the World Cup, I would pick the following team for the South Africa tour:

Maher
Gilchrist (v/c)
Ponting
Lehmann (c)
Martyn
Bevan
Watson
Harvey
Warne
Gillespie
McGrath

Reserves:
Hussey
Smith
Bichel


Maher is having a great season in both forms of the game & played well for Aus A. IMO is a better ODI option than either Langer or Hayden.

Watson deserves a go as an all-rounder in front of the under-performing Symonds. Harvey should be playing even if his batting is ordinary as he is our 2nd best ODI bowler behind McGrath - but he needs to be given a few consecutive games to get some confidence. Mike Smith has been a later bloomer for SA & should be taken as a back-up if either Watson or Harvey struggle for form. He is a genuine bowler who can pinch hit late in the innings (like SOD).

Hussey like Maher has a good domestic season & deserves to me rewarded with selection. Bichel has done nothing much wrong & should be rotated with the other fast bowlers.

Hopes from the Bulls would also have to be a chance of being selected.

[Darky]

Definitely in need of new batting talent, Briedis.

The bowling stocks look pretty good (for pacemen at least), but there seems to have been an X-Gen of cricketers who were half-way between generations and just played their cricket in the wrong era.

That X-Gen comprises of guys like Lehmann, Law, Moody, Cox, Bevan, Hills, Siddons, Elliott, Tucker, and until recently Hayden and Langer. All these guys had several good seasons in the early to mid 90s while the set top order of the 1989 Ashes tourists couldn't be moved.

Now some opportunities may arise with the Waughs getting older, and the next batch of second-stringers is nowhere near as good, while the previous X-Gen are all in their 30s or retired.

Of the current crop, it's mostly more 30+ types, or young guys of 21-22 just starting out. In the 24-28 age group, it's mostly steady Shield players who haven't done enough to warrant higher selection in their peak years.

Let's have a look :

WA - Hussey and Katich are ideally aged, and have good domestic averages around 50. Katich is having his first poor season, but his progress until 2000-01 had been steadily climbing.
Meuleman has impressed early, but is only 21, and averages about 30 in his debut season. Too early to tell, but signs are there. Ryan Campbell gets too many starts which he doesn't convert into big scores. His big hitting is very hit and miss, as he either clears the fielders or hits catches. May be handy in the short game, pass over him for Tests.

NSW - Shane Lee is 28 and averages over 40, and bowls too. Averages improved by county cricket, has been OK at ODI level, but can't see him ever being picked for Tests on the merits of his batting or his bowling alone. Mark Higgs is younger and may look like heading the same way, although his ODI figures are quite good.
Michael Clarke shows a bit, but like Meuleman it's quite early and he hasn't made that many big scores (despite a recent century).
Corey Richards has slipped over the last 2-3 years, I really thought he'd have gone further by now. Averages 33 at First Class level which is disappointing for someone with loads of ability. The next Mark Waugh maybe? LOL

Vic - Not much here. Elliott's form has been good but not spectacular since losing his Test spot, but if he makes runs, there might be a spot. Remember, Hayden poured on the runs for years and eventually got his reward. Hodge looks good but looks good making not many runs. Without facing the top attack in Australia (Reiffel, Fleming, Warne, Inness, Miller, etc) still can't crack a 40 average. 83 matches, 153 innings for a highest score of 140. He's had a couple of good seasons and a couple of shockers.
Klinger is the same as the other youngsters - shows ability but it might be a year or two before we know more.

SA - Not much to look at here. Fitzgerald and Johnson ar egood solid state players, but will never be any more than that. Blewett was tried at international level with some success, but had no idea against spin or against a ODI field. Davies might be a goer, big wraps on the kid, but I haven't seen much of him.

Tas - Like SA, seems to have a few good steady state players who will never go much further. Cox and Hills have been a good opening pair for many years, Cox especially being very stiff not to have been a Test player. Young and Marsh are good solid all rounders who are great to have at state level, but neither would be picked as batsmen or bowlers at international level. Kremerskothen looks a handy type, bowls a bit too.

Qld - Bit of a revolving door, Queensland's top 6. Maher and Love have been consistent performers for several years now and are definitely on the next tier below international squads at the moment. Symonds hasn't made many big scores in four-day games (averages boosted by county cricket) and Law is obviously not in favour anymore despite being a great player for years. Young Brendan Nash hit a big century today, curious to see how he develops.

So in a nutshell, there's the immediate fringe, with all the young prospects being 23 or under and not having quite shown enough to warrant further consideration. Is this considered satisfactory progress with the ages of the current Test squad in mind?