View Full Version : Best young midfielder?
As I said in my previous thread I was thinking who was the best under 23 midfielder/HBF/HFF. Decided to not inlcude first year players as you have to show yourself for more than one year and interstate players, who I don't get to see enough of, so I can't fairly compare.
Bomberz_pacers07
9 Sep 2006, 23:23
Judd's still 23 so id go for him
philhawk
9 Sep 2006, 23:24
Under 23?
Judd.
sput1956
9 Sep 2006, 23:34
Seeing as Chris Judd isn't in the poll I went for McLean.
Some of those boys don't play much in the midfield.
From that list.... I want to say Simmo but in all honesty its probably Hodge.
philhawk
9 Sep 2006, 23:41
Hodge
Ball
Dal Santo
Ablett Jnr
Cooney
Richo83
10 Sep 2006, 00:20
As I said, no interstate players. And why would I even put Judd in there anyway? That would be a useless poll wouldn't it?
mini_me316
10 Sep 2006, 03:27
On that list, Ball.
Extremly tough and hard at it ball winner.
Hodge merely receives the ball from the one who goes in hard and thats Sam Mitchell.
dipper86
10 Sep 2006, 04:43
On that list, Ball.
Extremly tough and hard at it ball winner.
Hodge merely receives the ball from the one who goes in hard and thats Sam Mitchell.
Hmm flawed logic. Hodge avgs 2.2 contested possesions compared to Mitchell 2.8 so where exactly is the ball coming from my simple little friend.
Ball avgs 1 more contested posession than Hodge per game at 3.2. You have no idea.
gandaal
10 Sep 2006, 08:59
There's someone else missing: Marc Murphy
vinnie_vegas69
10 Sep 2006, 11:15
On that list, Ball.
Extremly tough and hard at it ball winner.
Hodge merely receives the ball from the one who goes in hard and thats Sam Mitchell.
Clearances
Luke Hodge: 5.0
Luke Ball: 3.8
First Possessions
Luke Hodge: 5.3
Luke Ball: 4.8
Clearly, Luke Ball is doing less "ball winning" than Luke Hodge.
Irrelevant anyway - Nick Dal Santo is better than both.
Jeremias
10 Sep 2006, 11:21
There's someone else missing: Marc Murphy
I suspect Murph's exclusion is a bit like why Judd is excluded from these sorts of polls. The answer would be too obvious, and poll results would be too one sided :thumbsu:
I suspect Murph's exclusion is a bit like why Judd is excluded from these sorts of polls. The answer would be too obvious, and poll results would be too one sided :thumbsu:
Or it may have been specified in the initial criteria that first year players aren't listed. Murph wil be a champ but is still a long way behind many of those players.
gandaal
10 Sep 2006, 14:52
Or it may have been specified in the initial criteria that first year players aren't listed. Murph wil be a champ but is still a long way behind many of those players.
A long way? He's behind but it wouldn't be that far away. People have forgotten but before his injury people were arguing about the possiblity of Marc making the All Australian team (and I'm not talking just Carlton supporters either).
goal sneak
10 Sep 2006, 15:30
Looks like 78% of people voting know nothing about football. That would be the 78% that haven't voted for brocky.
pffffttt - Brock by a long shot
go fullta
10 Sep 2006, 16:38
I would say daniel cross but he isnt on the list!!
he is proving why he is one of the best young midfielders, by his performance at moment vs the pie's....had 15 touches mid way through 2nd qrter last i heard(mostly effective too), and he do's it everyweek
mudgeathon
10 Sep 2006, 16:47
Clearances
Luke Hodge: 5.0
Luke Ball: 3.8
First Possessions
Luke Hodge: 5.3
Luke Ball: 4.8
Clearly, Luke Ball is doing less "ball winning" than Luke Hodge.
Irrelevant anyway - Nick Dal Santo is better than both.
No he's not. Goes missing far too much in the big games and when the pressures on. I'd take both Hodge and Ball before Dal Santo everyday of the week and twice on Sundays
SA HAWK
10 Sep 2006, 16:48
pffffttt - Brock by a long shot
Hodge. Brock is overrated a bit i think. He hasn't been all australian or won a best and fariest award yet.
pafc4life
10 Sep 2006, 17:52
Adam Thomson, easily
He would have done both this season had he not missed 6 games through injury.
SA HAWK
10 Sep 2006, 18:19
He would have done both this season had he not missed 6 games through injury.
Of course he would have. :rolleyes:
TheGeneral
10 Sep 2006, 18:40
There's someone else missing
Gibbs?
goDees22
10 Sep 2006, 18:54
Of course he would have. :rolleyes:
Would have won our B&F if he had have played all games, probably AA as well, no need for the roll eyes
Richo83
10 Sep 2006, 19:06
Or it may have been specified in the initial criteria that first year players aren't listed. Murph wil be a champ but is still a long way behind many of those players.
Thank you lord. Someone has the brains to read the criteria. 13 games don't make a player, they make a good debut season, that's all.
Richo83
10 Sep 2006, 19:33
I would say daniel cross but he isnt on the list!!
he is proving why he is one of the best young midfielders, by his performance at moment vs the pie's....had 15 touches mid way through 2nd qrter last i heard(mostly effective too), and he do's it everyweek
Yes, not really young though. 23 years and 5 months old drafted on 2000, he has had five years in the system and at this stage, you would expect him to be a good player.
I had to make a cut off point and I decided that at 23, you move from young to standard, as most 23 y.o. have had 5-6 years expierience in the AFL, and that's not young. Compare it to someone like his team-mate Griffen, who is playing just his third season, and there is a difference in age and expierience.
Lord_Travis
10 Sep 2006, 19:38
Brock Mclean. In 2 years time, he will be the best midfielder in the competition behind Judd. Absolute freak.
SA HAWK
10 Sep 2006, 19:42
Would have won our B&F if he had have played all games, probably AA as well, no need for the roll eyes
No offense i just think it is too easy to say a player would have done this or that if they didn't get injured. What if he played poorly in the games he missed if he had of played.
That is like saints supporters saying they would have won friday night if they didn't get injuries.
melbournemartin
10 Sep 2006, 19:55
Hodge. Brock is overrated a bit i think. He hasn't been all australian or won a best and fariest award yet.
He will be a top 5 finisher in the Dees best and fairest behind the likes of TJ, Bruce, McDonald and Neitz while Hodge has less competition for the Hawks B&F. I also don't think that McLean has been overrated. Comparing him to Judd would be overrating him but comparing him to Hodge, Dal Santo and Ball is pretty accurate after the year he has had. Doesn't have as many runs on the ball, with 2 less years in the system, but has shown just as much if not more potential.
Neutral_observer
10 Sep 2006, 20:06
Brock, easily
By the way Hodge is not very good. Am I the only one that can see this?
SA HAWK
10 Sep 2006, 20:07
He will be a top 5 finisher in the Dees best and fairest behind the likes of TJ, Bruce, McDonald and Neitz while Hodge has less competition for the Hawks B&F. I also don't think that McLean has been overrated. Comparing him to Judd would be overrating him but comparing him to Hodge, Dal Santo and Ball is pretty accurate after the year he has had. Doesn't have as many runs on the ball, with 2 less years in the system, but has shown just as much if not more potential.
Hodge, Ball & Dal Santo were all AA in their 4th season. Brock has played only 3 seasons so is 2 behind them in total. On what he has acieved so far they are better.
SA HAWK
10 Sep 2006, 20:13
Brock, easily
By the way Hodge is not very good. Am I the only one that can see this?
Better than brock will ever be. Fast becoming the most overrated player in the comp. Especially by melbourne supporters. One good final and the sun shines out of his ass.
Ball was fortunate to make AA when he did. If they picked an AA team right now, Mclean would be in it, thats all that matters. You usually have to play a full season to make AA. Its like saying Paul Williams is better than Jono Brown because Williams got AA a few years back. Thats ridiculous. Missed games have probably cost Mclean, Swan and Brown AA.
philhawk
10 Sep 2006, 22:22
Ball was fortunate to make AA when he did. If they picked an AA team right now, Mclean would be in it, thats all that matters. You usually have to play a full season to make AA. Its like saying Paul Williams is better than Jono Brown because Williams got AA a few years back. Thats ridiculous. Missed games have probably cost Mclean, Swan and Brown AA.
True, you often see Paul Williams playing at Full-Forward.
Cassius_Clay
10 Sep 2006, 23:18
Hodge, McLean, Ball, Dal Santo = All guns
Goddard, Bartel, Cooney = Extremely good players
Richo83
11 Sep 2006, 17:19
Hodge, McLean, Ball, Dal Santo = All guns
Goddard, Bartel, Cooney = Extremely good players
Very insightful.
Who is the best?
Don't suppose there would have been much of a point to this poll if Judd was included...
blues4flag
11 Sep 2006, 17:46
Many close ones - ofcourse the best young midfielder is younger than all those, Marc Murphy, but unfortunately for him he's a first year player. Out of those, its close b/w a few, I voted Simpson - biased I know, but being perfectly honest, it would be either Hodge, Ball or Dal Santo, with Simpson, Mclean and Cooney in the next group. Judd is the best (yes, even better than Murphy, hard to believe, I know) - turned 23 three days ago, though.
However in two to three years, the second name on list, the up and coming young star - will be without a doubt the best midfielder - no, player - in the AFL:D :thumbsu: .
Richo83
11 Sep 2006, 18:12
Don't suppose there would have been much of a point to this poll if Judd was included...
It would be a complete waste of bandwidth to include him.
The next person who makes a thread asking whos a better midfielder and inlcudes Judd should be arrested for contempt of bigfooty.
hodge is the best player in that list by far but hes played five seasons now and cant really be considered a young midfielder even tho he is 22
Jeremias
11 Sep 2006, 18:46
Am I the only one that can see this?
Yes......................................................... ......and that's because you are an idiot, and have shown us on countless occassions that you know a very limited amount on football.
goDees22
11 Sep 2006, 19:01
No offense i just think it is too easy to say a player would have done this or that if they didn't get injured. What if he played poorly in the games he missed if he had of played.
That is like saints supporters saying they would have won friday night if they didn't get injuries.
going on our votes on the melbourne board if he had have got even a few votes in those 6 games that he missed he would be winning, has consistently been great, averaging 23 a game or so, and earns every one. He would definitely be top 2 if not winning
Keithy George
11 Sep 2006, 19:15
Someone had the nerve to vote for Andrew Walker. :rolleyes:
Jeremias
11 Sep 2006, 19:18
Someone had the nerve to vote for Andrew Walker. :rolleyes:
Obsessed much?
gandaal
11 Sep 2006, 19:20
God damn you Melbourne fans have issues.
TheGeneral
11 Sep 2006, 19:23
Someone had the nerve to vote for Andrew Walker. :rolleyes:
At least he's there unlike Sylvia.
Walker is more deserving of a vote than Gram who has only had one good year.
Only four votes for Griffen which puts him level with Swan. :eek: :rolleyes:
Cassius_Clay
11 Sep 2006, 19:24
At least he's there unlike Sylvia.
Walker is more deserving of a vote than Gram who has only had one good year.
Walker has had 1 fairly good year.
Jeremias
11 Sep 2006, 19:26
Walker has had 1 fairly good year.
1 very good year
1 solid year
Bits and pieces of class throughout the others.
Sylvia is still showing the very rare signs of class. Extremely rare in fact.
Cassius_Clay
11 Sep 2006, 19:27
1 very good year
1 solid year
Bits and pieces of class throughout the others.
Sylvia is still showing the very rare signs of class. Extremely rare in fact.
Whats his very good year? This one?
Grams 2006 >>> Walker's 2006
Jeremias
11 Sep 2006, 19:31
Whats his very good year? This one?
Yes...
Grams 2006 >>> Walker's 2006
Relevance?
port_brad
12 Sep 2006, 06:18
no pearce/jnr burgoyne/saloepk?
Richo83
12 Sep 2006, 17:18
no pearce/jnr burgoyne/saloepk?
No interstate players. Can't compare players I haven't seen to players I have. And Shaun? He's not young, he turns 24 next month. Even if he was playing for a Victorian side I wouldn't include him because he is too old.
delirious1
12 Sep 2006, 17:23
cooney/hodge/mclean
goDees22
12 Sep 2006, 18:00
1 very good year
1 solid year
Bits and pieces of class throughout the others.
Sylvia is still showing the very rare signs of class. Extremely rare in fact.
sylvia is improving, he's taken a while to find his feet.
(cue chick kicking jokes)
Richo83
12 Sep 2006, 18:30
Sylvia isn't included because ATM Walker > Sylvia, and Colin isn't in the best 20 under-23 Vic midfielders.
Sherman not in there? probably would be in my top 3 young onballers.
rick James
13 Sep 2006, 13:42
McLean and Hodge imo are the best, Cooney just after that.
Reasoning for this is that all three get tagged, and have all adjusted to it to at least some degree (McLean and Hodge have adjusted better than Cooney, but Coondog is coming good at the right end of the season).
Coondog has that real goalkicking ability and pace.
McLean is just a deadset warhorse who leads his team on the field and punishes the opposition with no frills, direct, attacking football.
Hodge is sort of a combination of both, without being as good as either - more of a complete package.
All three have exceptional skills. Good examples of taking footballers ahead of athletes in drafting.
konstas_87
13 Sep 2006, 13:52
Sherman: 19.
Geddy Lee
13 Sep 2006, 14:41
Sylvia is a bad as Brock is good. Yang and ying.
konstas_87
13 Sep 2006, 14:51
Yep?
not on the list.
rick James
13 Sep 2006, 15:14
Sylvia is a bad as Brock is good. Yang and ying.
Mate Sylvia was decent last week, and he's been really hindered by injur thus far, give him time - it took TJ about 7 seasons to come good - and it was worth teh wait.
p.s. I agree sherman is being stooged by being ommitted from this poll.
JoffaMan
13 Sep 2006, 15:20
Mate Sylvia was decent last week, and he's been really hindered by injur thus far, give him time - it took TJ about 7 seasons to come good - and it was worth teh wait.
p.s. I agree sherman is being stooged by being ommitted from this poll.
Ablett>>>Sylvia
turbo182
13 Sep 2006, 15:35
LUke Ball is god.
The Tackle Machine
Trav 20
13 Sep 2006, 15:47
Hodge, Ball & Dal Santo were all AA in their 4th season. Brock has played only 3 seasons so is 2 behind them in total. On what he has acieved so far they are better.
It was Ball's 5th year on the list when he was nominated for AA. Two years older than McLean is now.
Also, neither Hodge, Ball, or Dal Santo have had a career better year than McLean's 2006. The AA selectors were always going to make a 20 year old 3rd year player pay his dues before consideration for representation.
This year McLean ranks only behind Scott West for disposals per TOG. He's no. 8 in the league for ave. 1st possessions. He's no. 9 in the league for ave. clearances. He's 13 in the league for ave. inside 50's.
He already has an ability to make others hesitate with his vigour, he's a goal kicking midfielder, and a natural born leader. In fact he's the complete package.
Would I do a direct swap for Hodge, Ball, or Dal santo ? Hell no.
Richo83
13 Sep 2006, 16:43
p.s. I agree sherman is being stooged by being ommitted from this poll.
He has not been stooged, I didn't put him in there for a reason, I only put Vic players there that we see regulary to make a fair assesment. how many times does the average Victorian see Sherman play each year? Four times? Compare that to players like Swan and Griffen amd he is disadvantaged.
However, I will create a poll with the 6 most voted for players and the best 14 interstate players later on. I tried to fit in all, but there is only 20 spots.
rick James
13 Sep 2006, 16:44
He has not been stooged, I didn't put him in there for a reason, I only put Vic players there that we see regulary to make a fair assesment. how many times does the average Victorian see Sherman play each year? Four times? Compare that to players like Swan and Griffen amd he is disadvantaged.
However, I will create a poll with the 6 most voted for players and the best 14 interstate players later on. I tried to fit in all, but there is only 20 spots.
Fair enough, but I think you'd have to be an ignoramous to not consider Sherman one of the best youngstes going around (though I'm fully aware that many an ignoramous will be voting in this poll so I do see your logic)
Richo83
13 Sep 2006, 17:05
Fair enough, but I think you'd have to be an ignoramous to not consider Sherman one of the best youngstes going around (though I'm fully aware that many an ignoramous will be voting in this poll so I do see your logic)
Oh yeah, Sherman is IMO the best 2004 draftee, better than Deledio, better than Franklin, he is awesome.
My point is that the problem is that there are many ignoramuses who would say that Simpson is better than Sherman because they have seen Simpson's best whereas Sherman has done nothing, in reality they have never watched Sherman play and so the poll becomes pointless.
I know it is a bit stupid leaving out some players that deserve spots there and I realise that, but I'm trying to limit the number of idiot votes so we can get a fair assesment.
Ryan Griffen will be the best player from the 2004 draft class, but Sherman will be second.
SA HAWK
13 Sep 2006, 18:28
It was Ball's 5th year on the list when he was nominated for AA. Two years older than McLean is now.
Wrong! It was balls 4th year on the list and only his 3rd year playing. He sat out the first year while he finished school.
Top Dog
13 Sep 2006, 21:28
Surprised Deledio has so many votes. Didn't have the greatest second season, and BF loves a bandwagon.
Don't get me wrong, he is going to be very, very good. With Brown et al out at various stages this season, Deledio copped the hard tag and struggled a little. Will be better for it next season.
Top Dog
13 Sep 2006, 21:30
No bias here, but Griffen will be elite.
Has it all at his disposal, just needs to improve his aerobic capacity and he will tear teams apart in the midfield. I dare anyone to try and tackle him... You can't. He has the best hips, since R. Harvey.
trueblue_91
13 Sep 2006, 21:37
No bias here, but Griffen will be elite.
Has it all at his disposal, just needs to improve his aerobic capacity and he will tear teams apart in the midfield. I dare anyone to try and tackle him... You can't. He has the best hips, since R. Harvey.
100% agree mate. Can find the ball, has flair and dares to take on opponents. Will be the best player from that draft
sput1956
13 Sep 2006, 22:13
No bias here, but Griffen will be elite.
Has it all at his disposal, just needs to improve his aerobic capacity and he will tear teams apart in the midfield. I dare anyone to try and tackle him... You can't. He has the best hips, since R. Harvey.
Griffen is elite already.
If I could have two players from that list it would be McLean and Griffen.
Top Dog
13 Sep 2006, 22:17
Griffen is elite already.
If I could have two players from that list it would be McLean and Griffen.
Two tough nuts there.
McLean, the more dour of the two but super tough and has great leadership qualities. Griffen on the other hand has sublime foot skills, and good mark for his size amongst other qualities.
Got a funny feeling that Griff & Coons will form one of the more fomidable midfield duo's in the competition. They seem to balance out each other nicely.
Trav 20
13 Sep 2006, 23:17
Wrong! It was balls 4th year on the list and only his 3rd year playing. He sat out the first year while he finished school.
You're right, and what's more you're a witness to a phenomenon.
Btw, as an Old Xav, I knew he sat out the first year, just got my no.'s wrrr wrrrro....
He's only played 4 AFL seasons so it had to be 05.
rick James
14 Sep 2006, 09:31
Two tough nuts there.
McLean, the more dour of the two but super tough and has great leadership qualities. Griffen on the other hand has sublime foot skills, and good mark for his size amongst other qualities.
Got a funny feeling that Griff & Coons will form one of the more fomidable midfield duo's in the competition. They seem to balance out each other nicely.
Agree, and Melbourne will have McLean and Bate.
Good times ahead for both sides imo.
Traffic Light
14 Sep 2006, 09:40
McLean at this stage.
Griffen hasn't played in the midfield enough.
I'd still take deledio over anyone else in the 04 draft. Showed in the 2nd half of the season it's a helluva lot easier to look good playing off a HBF rather than being tagged in the guts. Has the tools to be special including a football brain which most ignorant BF bandwagoners don't realise.
as for the poll, of those listed McLean(workhorse, reliable), Griffin(will be a jet) and Lids. But Judd>>>>>>>>>everyone, big deal if hes a few months older.
Richo83
18 Sep 2006, 13:15
Top dog, Deledio averaged 18 possesions this year compared to 13 last year, if anything he has improved from last year. The notion that Deleio's efforts have slipped tis year are a myth.
gandaal
18 Sep 2006, 18:18
Top dog, Deledio averaged 18 possesions this year compared to 13 last year, if anything he has improved from last year. The notion that Deleio's efforts have slipped tis year are a myth.
Agreed, the myth was that Deledio had a great year last year.
trav_16
20 Sep 2006, 23:21
Mate Sylvia was decent last week, and he's been really hindered by injur thus far, give him time - it took TJ about 7 seasons to come good - and it was worth teh wait.
p.s. I agree sherman is being stooged by being ommitted from this poll.
I have no doubt sylvia will be better than most on this poll through out his career (including walker)
I went with McLean, however I must confess to seeing much more of his game.
I've liked what Griffen has shown thus far
Jeremias
21 Sep 2006, 09:24
I have no doubt sylvia will be better than most on this poll through out his career (including walker)
I have no doubt that you are wrong.
Sylvia is poop. Easily one of the worst on that list. Walker is miles ahead of him, and has show that he will be a much better player.
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 16:00
McLean and Hodge imo are the best, Cooney just after that.
Reasoning for this is that all three get tagged, and have all adjusted to it to at least some degree (McLean and Hodge have adjusted better than Cooney, but Coondog is coming good at the right end of the season).
Coondog has that real goalkicking ability and pace.
McLean is just a deadset warhorse who leads his team on the field and punishes the opposition with no frills, direct, attacking football.
Hodge is sort of a combination of both, without being as good as either - more of a complete package.
All three have exceptional skills. Good examples of taking footballers ahead of athletes in drafting.
I was going through this thread with the user names obscured (off screen) and got to this post and was nodding along going "spot on, top post, top post" in my head. And it realyl is the best summation of these young players in this thread - then I wanted to see who posted it, unsurprisingly it was me.
Top work me. Spot on.
Lightning_Rod
8 Nov 2006, 16:28
no Shaune Burgoyne or Danyle Pearce i see.
I was going through this thread with the user names obscured (off screen) and got to this post and was nodding along going "spot on, top post, top post" in my head. And it realyl is the best summation of these young players in this thread - then I wanted to see who posted it, unsurprisingly it was me.
Top work me. Spot on.
u really are a spanker of the highest order
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 17:04
u really are a spanker of the highest order
haha tell me about it.
no Shaune Burgoyne or Danyle Pearce i see.
Shawn Burgoyne? Is this the ShaUn (Port supporters can't even spell the names of the team's stars, tsk tsk) that's 24 years old? Hardly young. As for Pearce, he's in the other poll, use the search function ffs.
RJ, you love yourself, way too much. :D
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 19:40
RJ, you love yourself, way too much. :D
haha I know, I even liked the words I was using, I was oging "this is written really well, who is this phantom poster with such an ability to harness his thoughts into word form" and lo, it be me.
Lightning_Rod
8 Nov 2006, 19:47
Shawn Burgoyne? Is this the ShaUn (Port supporters can't even spell the names of the team's stars, tsk tsk) that's 24 years old? Hardly young. As for Pearce, he's in the other poll, use the search function ffs.
RJ, you love yourself, way too much. :D
i never wrote shawn moron i accidentally put an e at the end. and how about danyle, instead of attacking me for my spelling take what i said into account and answer properly.
i never wrote shawn moron i accidentally put an e at the end. and how about danyle, instead of attacking me for my spelling take what i said into account and answer properly.
I did, Burgoyne's too old, Pearce is in the other thread.
nick_savo
9 Nov 2006, 18:40
yeh, judds only 23, i would go 4 him aswell
Wishinman
10 Nov 2006, 20:44
As I said, no interstate players. And why would I even put Judd in there anyway? That would be a useless poll wouldn't it?
Maybe you should re title this thread to 'best young midfielder minus the best':rolleyes:
Hodge2Franklin
10 Nov 2006, 22:18
The fact that McLean is winning this thread just shows that BigFooty is riddled with sheep. A good player but I saw a lot of him this year and will never be anywhere near as good as a dozen other players on that list.
Truly the most over-rated person of all time on BigFooty. Rick James is the pied piper ...