View Full Version : Howard the stinking LIAR
joffa_pies4ever
14 Feb 2002, 16:52
Howard Your a racist little fat pig, and even worse your a filthy maggot lying biggot!!
London Dave
14 Feb 2002, 19:10
How unsuprising this has happened, regarding the children overboard lies....Reith 'blaming' bureaucrats (after 'refusing' to vomment at all!), Howard claiming he and his ministers acted in 'good faith', when there was massive 'doubt' about the legitimacy of the claims from the moment they were made.
A combo of incompetence, negligence, accepting ill informed information (or fantasy) as fact...but in reality the desparate desire of a government bent on seeking election victory by any means, fair or foul.
Johnny Boy, your excuses dont stand up...can you live up to your nickname 'Honest'? I doubt it. Liar or incompetent, take your pick.
Tip of the icenerg this!
sandeano
14 Feb 2002, 19:24
Originally posted by joffa_pies4ever
Howard Your a racist little fat pig, and even worse your a filthy maggot lying biggot!!
Joffa, you are wrong, dead wrong. I cannot abide by you making false and libel-worthy remarks against our Prime Minister.
John Howard is not fat....a tad pudgy perhaps, but not fat.
Seriously though...was anyone really surprised when the truth was revealed?
I never thought I'd see the day our government (even a Liberal one) could stoop so very, very low. We all could smell the smoke, now we've found the gun.
How Howard and his cronies act is not important now, hey have done their dash. It is how the electorate reacts to the confirmation of lies that will be the litmus test of whether our country has any shred of decency left.
i think its disgusting that the Howard government acted the way it did... it was obviously all a ploy to get the votes in the end
lucky i voted labor
joffa_pies4ever
14 Feb 2002, 22:27
About 4 weeks ago in one of my postings i opiniated that the tampa boat crisis would somehow bring down the howard government, this government is doomed it is pretencious self serving and basically thinks it can do as it wishes.
Reith will be sacked and howards credibility will never be the same not that the little four eyed pea brain had any credibility at all to start with.
Costello must be in absolute glee and will very soon be prime minister which will ultimately see the return of a labour government a government that will care for all orstralians.
This evil government led by howard is now on borrowed time!!AND MUST BE TOLD TO MOVE ON, may i i suggest we destroy all records of this most evil and terrifying government. A government which for ever will be most embarrassing to all orstralians.
GO THE BATTLERS!!!
sandeano
14 Feb 2002, 22:41
Although these findings are bviously damning, I'd hate to think the electorate would turn on Howard for lthe act of lying in this situation.
For even if it were true - that kids were being thrown overboard (for whatever reason) that should not mean we deny them our help, caring and plain old compassion.
So overboard or not - this government should have been helping. Howard's lies are horrid enough, but a far, far greater sin were his mean and nasty actions against the folk of the Tampa.
Howard is a Liberal. Lying is his job. Villify him for his true crimes, not for him telling a porky.
Dr AlfAndrews
14 Feb 2002, 23:01
Clearly the last federal election was won on false pretences. The Howard government is not fit to govern and has no legitimacy.
The Governor-General should intervene immediately, sack the Howard government, and call another election.
Originally posted by Dr AlfAndrews
Clearly the last federal election was won on false pretences. The Howard government is not fit to govern and has no legitimacy.
The Governor-General should intervene immediately, sack the Howard government, and call another election.
I agree 110% Alf!! :mad:
sandeano
14 Feb 2002, 23:16
Man, I wish it were possible.
About the time the office of GG did something useful. Redeem themselves for 27 years ago.
Originally posted by joffa_pies4ever
Reith will be sacked
Ah Joffa, Rieth's no longer in parliament.
Rusty Brookes
15 Feb 2002, 07:32
Originally posted by Dave
Ah Joffa, Rieth's no longer in parliament.
Thank God for that.
What's this ? The lunie lefty thread?
As if people voted for Liberal because children had been theown overboard a ship :rolleyes: The issue was about border protection you idiots!!!
And it's all about sour grapes from Labour. We lost and it was not our fault they cry. Well it was your fault.....you were a pathetic disorganised rabble that didn't deserve to get into power.
Oh yes, Liberals used anything coming their way and there is nothing to say children weren't thrown overboard, just no proof that they were. So how did they get there? Five year olds climbing the rails and diving in eh? duhhhhhhh.. Or did Reith fly out there and throw them in himself just for the photographs........duhhhhh.
So this little bit of payback for Reith breaking the union waterfront blackmail rort gets its few days of exposure. Too far away from the next election to make one iota of difference other than make lunie lefties feel smug.
And anyone reading the report is an idiot if they can't see that Howard was proven squeaky clean.
Originally posted by Frodo
As if people voted for Liberal because children had been theown overboard a ship :rolleyes: The issue was about border protection you idiots!!!
And now the issue is did some of our pollies know about something and conceal it and are they now lying to try and conceal that?
You'd have to be a moron not to keep an open mind about it.
wagstaff
15 Feb 2002, 11:23
I heard Howard interviewed on Neil Mitchell show today and he performed his usual "what did I do wrong?" line of speaking, manages to find justification for whatever he does. His refusal to say sorry on the reconciliation issue has been well-documented but it goes deeper than that. I can't remember him admitting any mistake or apologising over any issue i EVER during his Prime Ministership. Even when he performed a series of shameless political backflips before the last election, Howard attempted to justify it as a virtue of his government that they were "listening" to the people. :rolleyes:
Anyway, even if one were to accept Howard's explanation that he was relying on his department, does that mean he's merely a puppet of the public service if he's totally reliant on them for his information?
Originally posted by Frodo
What's
And anyone reading the report is an idiot if they can't see that Howard was proven squeaky clean.
I'm with you Frodo....our Prime Miniture would "NEVER EVER" tell a lie.
:rolleyes:
Frodo, they knew that the report of children being thrown overboard was incorrect, but they kept on about it because they knew they were on to a vote winner!
If Johnny wasn't told the truth, then why not? Could it be because his advisers knew he didn't want to hear it? Or is it that his senior public servants are incompetent?
Border protection, my bum! It was racism and xenophobia!
wagstaff
15 Feb 2002, 11:39
Originally posted by Frodo
What's this ? The lunie lefty thread?
Well it was until you came along. :D
As much as Frodo's posts irritate me for their robotic, predictable responses, he does make some valid points.
It would be naive to think that the general public's response to the asylum seekers issue is going to change rapidly because of this revelation. This has become an issue about the integrity (ahem) of the Howard government.
And for all the noises emenating from the Labor party about the asylum seeker issue, they were the party in this country to introduce the policy and it's notable that these people are only saying these things after an election. Gutless.
Briedis
15 Feb 2002, 11:55
Originally posted by joffa_pies4ever
About 4 weeks ago in one of my postings i opiniated that the tampa boat crisis would somehow bring down the howard government, this government is doomed it is pretencious self serving and basically thinks it can do as it wishes.
The people forgot/forgave him for the "There will never be a GST" lie...well, they still voted for him anyway....
What's the big deal anyway...you mean a politician LIED?:eek: :eek: :eek: Strike me down with a feather.... what is this world coming too?:rolleyes:
Maybe it's time to start thinking about changing our poilitical system so that lying and cheating is not such an effective means of governing the nation....
Sydneyfan
15 Feb 2002, 12:01
I don't think that this current revelation is going to change much unfortunately. Howard will remain in power for the next year or 2 at least (until Costello mounts a challenge). The majority of the Australian public were in favour of Howard's policies regarding refugees and still are, and I doubt that the news of Howard lying will change much. Many Australians have an entrenched xenophobic fear that this country will be 'invaded' by 'outsiders' and Howard has manipulated this fear perfectly. For many people it seems, their fear of 'outsiders invading' Australia is more important than the issues and facts behind the situation. Howard is a master at pandering to popular opinion and making himself look like a 'strong' leader in doing so.
I doubt that the Governor-General's going to do much, he's got enough issues of his own at the moment. I can't remember hearing him enter the refugee debate at all so far. It's a shame Sir William Deane still isn't G-G, he seems like a kind, compassionate man. If only more members of the Liberal Government were of the same ilk of Malcolm Fraser (compassionate) rather than Howard (bigoted, cold-hearted), the situation wouldn't be as bad.
I cant understand why everone is so suprised about a politician lying. If everyone was so outraged everytime that someone told a lie then we would never have enough time to deal with any other issues whatsoever. Or is the reason that people are so annoyed because the government has actually admitted it this time or that the issue is so uncomplicated that they are able to understand it.
As for saying that the government won the election on the pretences of a lie, it would have been equally arguable that had the ALP won the election it would have also won on a lie, the rollback on the GST being fairer for Australia. This was blatently untrue and if any changes were to occur then it should have been rolled forward, but thats getting off the track.
People should not be suprised in the slightest that politicians are lying it happens virtually everyday and if, as suggested previously, the Governor General disolve the parliament then it would set a precedent that would almost see us never have a parliament. (the last constitutional crisis occured because the labor govt couldn't get the budget through the parliament and therefore could not run the country, the govt refused to call an eary election, cause they knew they'd lose, so the GG had no choice but to disolve the parliament. It had nothing to do with any sort of vendetta agianst the ALP as most people seem to think)
Originally posted by ACV
I cant understand why everone is so suprised about a politician lying. If everyone was so outraged everytime that someone told a lie then we would never have enough time to deal with any other issues whatsoever.
So that makes it ok?
Or is the reason that people are so annoyed because the government has actually admitted it this time or that the issue is so uncomplicated that they are able to understand it.
They've admitted to lying?
As for saying that the government won the election on the pretences of a lie, it would have been equally arguable that had the ALP won the election it would have also won on a lie, the rollback on the GST being fairer for Australia. This was blatently untrue and if any changes were to occur then it should have been rolled forward, but thats getting off the track.
That's a subjective assessment. It' not quite the same as people chucking kids into the water. Either they did or they didn't. Objective, black and white.
People should not be suprised in the slightest that politicians are lying it happens virtually everyday and if, as suggested previously, the Governor General disolve the parliament then it would set a precedent that would almost see us never have a parliament.
Or perhaps set a precedent that would see us with honest politicians for a change. Who was it that said we get the government we deserve?
(the last constitutional crisis occured because the labor govt couldn't get the budget through the parliament and therefore could not run the country, the govt refused to call an eary election, cause they knew they'd lose, so the GG had no choice but to disolve the parliament.
That's one interpretation of events.
It had nothing to do with any sort of vendetta agianst the ALP as most people seem to think)
Of course it didn't. Thank you for your input Sir John.
On a serious note, if a political party (of any persuasion) promises us something, and we vote for them based on that promise, and they then go back on their word, does that not constitute breach of contract?
Briedis
15 Feb 2002, 12:34
Originally posted by Dave
Or perhaps set a precedent that would see us with honest politicians for a change. Who was it that said we get the government we deserve?
I don't believe in our system we do vote for the government. The only people who voted for howard were the people in his electorate. And the only people who voted to make him leader of the nation are the liberal party.
Where's my chance to vote for the guy in the top job?:confused:
The PM is not the government ;)
Briedis
15 Feb 2002, 13:55
Originally posted by Dave
The PM is not the government ;)
But it would be nice if we could at least have a say in the guy who is the head of the government. Currently, he is elected by his mates and not the people of the country...it's a bit of a quasi-democracy....we get to vote, but usually for someone who sits up the back never getting a chance to speak because he is not leader or in the cabinet....
Originally posted by Dave
"So that makes it ok? "
No it doesn't make it ok but why is everyone so suprised its not like its a new concept.
"They've admitted to lying?"
Haven't they? or did they admit to being misled by others? I don't really know, what happened? it all amounts to the same thing doesn't it
"That's a subjective assessment. It' not quite the same as people chucking kids into the water. Either they did or they didn't. Objective, black and white. "
No its not subjective because they claim its fairer for all Australians etc. If they didn't claim that then yes you would be correct.
"Or perhaps set a precedent that would see us with honest politicians for a change. Who was it that said we get the government we deserve? "
In an ideological world, sure that would be great. But we don't live in an ideological world do we.
"That's one interpretation of events. "
No, thats what happened, whats your interpretation?
"On a serious note, if a political party (of any persuasion) promises us something, and we vote for them based on that promise, and they then go back on their word, does that not constitute breach of contract?"
Originally posted by Frodo
And anyone reading the report is an idiot if they can't see that Howard was proven squeaky clean.
Defence knew it was Bull****
Prime Ministers Dept. knew it was Bull****
Immigration Dept. knew it was Bull****
Reith knew it was Bull****
YET Not ONE person told the Prime Miniture?
Look !!!!! a flying pig..........
Shinboners
15 Feb 2002, 16:03
Originally posted by Dave
On a serious note, if a political party (of any persuasion) promises us something, and we vote for them based on that promise, and they then go back on their word, does that not constitute breach of contract?
Depends if it's a core or non-core promise.
But it would be very hard to prove as there would be no written evidence or contract between you and the politician that you made your vote on the basis of their promise. And even if you did do that, how could you prove that you did vote for that politician when the ballot papers have no indication that it was you that made that vote?
Johhny dwarf is the next greg williams. Most handballs I have ever seen anyone pass of in less than 10 minutes.
joffa_pies4ever
15 Feb 2002, 21:55
Originally posted by Frodo
What's this ? The lunie lefty thread?
As if people voted for Liberal because children had been theown overboard a ship :rolleyes: The issue was about border protection you idiots!!!
And it's all about sour grapes from Labour. We lost and it was not our fault they cry. Well it was your fault.....you were a pathetic disorganised rabble that didn't deserve to get into power.
Oh yes, Liberals used anything coming their way and there is nothing to say children weren't thrown overboard, just no proof that they were. So how did they get there? Five year olds climbing the rails and diving in eh? duhhhhhhh.. Or did Reith fly out there and throw them in himself just for the photographs........duhhhhh.
So this little bit of payback for Reith breaking the union waterfront blackmail rort gets its few days of exposure. Too far away from the next election to make one iota of difference other than make lunie lefties feel smug.
And anyone reading the report is an idiot if they can't see that Howard was proven squeaky clean.
hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha for an idiot like yourself who prides in the liberal movement and after reading that dribble i have come to two conclusions your evil, and hell awaits for you or your just a twathead...grow up you fool !!!
GO THE BATTLERS!!!!
GO THE BATTLERS!!!!
joffa_pies4ever
15 Feb 2002, 21:59
Originally posted by 1AD
Defence knew it was Bull****
Prime Ministers Dept. knew it was Bull****
Immigration Dept. knew it was Bull****
Reith knew it was Bull****
YET Not ONE person told the Prime Miniture?
Look !!!!! a flying pig..........
HAHAHAHAHA WHAT A PISSER!!!
It's like an episode of yes minister!!
Oh your clever howard you stenched stinking fat little ****!!!
GO THE BATTLERS!!!
joffa_pies4ever
15 Feb 2002, 22:01
Originally posted by Dave
The PM is not the government ;)
OH GOD YOUR A PROFFESSOR ARN'T YOU DAVE ?
HE IS THE LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT YOU IMBICILIC FOOL!!
GO THE BLOODY BATTLERS!!!
Pessimistic
16 Feb 2002, 12:36
As one politician once said. Weak and Sneaky.
Can't even own up to it blaming anyone and everyone.
Joffa please contribute more than abuse or you will be booted.
joffa_pies4ever
16 Feb 2002, 20:55
Originally posted by Bluey
Joffa please contribute more than abuse or you will be booted.
Ok sorry mate!!
London Dave
16 Feb 2002, 21:19
Looks like Reith is gonna have to carry the can for this..real sad thing is no one really gives a stuff...Johnny must be glad footy season has started, but the entire saga leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Dont think its time for the GG to sack him, especially as a 'pay back'. To paraphrase a former immigration minister, two wrongs dont make a right!
Anyone taking a look at what's gone on could not but think something is not quite right here. Howard, Ruddock and Reith are not coming out of this smelling like roses. Not only do pollies have to be straight, they need to be seen to be straight. They say a part of any mud thrown sticks. In this case, I think its well deserved. If you want to pursue a policy fine, but telling deliberate porkies is a big no no in my book.
Howard has expressed his 'regret' that the 'overboard' claims were not corrected before the election. He had ample opportunity before Nov 10th to correct this and did not.
He made a central platform of his re election his handling of the immigration crisis. 'Are these the sort of people you want in this country?'
Howard can point the finger at public servants, but the real issue is he, above all else, had the moral responsibilty to clear the air. A guy who has set himself as a defender of 'family values' is exposed as a cynical politician, just like the supposed 'appartchiks' he contrasts himself with. Being Prime Minister means taking responsibilty for your actions or inactions. Johnny is buck passing, and already declaring it a politically motivated witch hunt. Predictable John, but the solution is simple. Tell the Truth, release the cabinet papers etc.
Reiths reluctance to testify suggests to me there is skeletons in the closet. His record suggests he himself has no moral qualms abot being 'economical' with the truth. Whether he is gonna allow himself to be sacrificed for Johnny and Phil is another matter. I reckon he;ll squeal like a pig when they put the screws on him.
I suppose in reality, we will have to wait 30 years to find the truth. History will judge these guys, and do it in a way the electorate couldnt, with all the relevant facts at their disposal!
Dr AlfAndrews
16 Feb 2002, 22:11
Originally posted by London Dave
... To paraphrase a former immigration minister, two wrongs dont make a right! ...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I think it was Calwell, wasn't it? And I think the exact quote was "Two wongs don't make a white."
Funny how you wouldn't get away with that sort of silliness today, but you can make up kok-n-bull stories about people throwing kids overboard and win an election on the strength of it.
At least in Calwell's day, the racists had a sense of humour.
floreat picaman
16 Feb 2002, 22:31
Originally posted by Dr AlfAndrews
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I think it was Calwell, wasn't it? And I think the exact quote was "Two wongs don't make a white."
Funny how you wouldn't get away with that sort of silliness today, but you can make up kok-n-bull stories about people throwing kids overboard and win an election on the strength of it.
At least in Calwell's day, the racists had a sense of humour.
Racism is recism no matter when expressed or in what manner it is expressed. Cant you take it, it was only a joke doesn't really wash.
That bloke should have bumped off Caldwell in 66. Labor might have achieved something a bit earlier than what it allegedly did otherwise.
Of course the clean out of the Trotskyites like Harltey from the Victorian branch in 1970 paved the way for the 72 election victory. Unfortunately though, the inept trio of Cairns Connors and Crean remained.
Originally posted by joffa_pies4ever
GO THE BLOODY BATTLERS!!!
Jeff, Joffy or Joffa (how you wish to be addressed),
You are the typical Labour follower; you claim that because Labour represents the battlers or the underdogs, they make the correct decisions.That is total rubbish and is the reason why the party you support has not won office.
You always let your lack of understanding of the true economic and political situation hinder your ability to make coherent opinions about our nation.
Liberal have delivered economic growth, decreased foreign debt, unemployment and inflation. This has all been done in a period, which saw an Asian recession and now an World recession.
This is in direct contrast too the economic mismangement of your party. Record unemployment, low growth and huge foreign debt were the cornerstones of the inept Labour Party.
It is also ironic that the party who claims to represent the battlers, is trying to lessen the role of these people by dismantling the influences of the Unions
London Dave
17 Feb 2002, 02:19
Wow Alf, you got a result with that one. seems our tory mate floreat pica (or is it yassir arafat, the histrionic screamer after a name change, certainly seems to be regurgitating the inane dribble of ya) is a politaclly correct little devil after all, although he does seem to agree with politically motivated killing (re Calwell), something he has in common with the NKVD and their ilk, whom he (rightly) constantly criticises. Cant have your cake and eat it mate.
Seems like Reithy is under the cosh, look like losing your 'consultancies', according to the Sunday papers. Funny how he can get away with trading on insider knowldge, its illegal in most other countries! Ministers in most other 'western' countries are banned from taking up such 'opportunites' for 2 years or so after leaving office. Will he take the wrap for his master???? Can't wait to find out!
floreat picaman
17 Feb 2002, 09:41
Originally posted by London Dave
Wow Alf, you got a result with that one. seems our tory mate floreat pica (or is it yassir arafat, the histrionic screamer after a name change, certainly seems to be regurgitating the inane dribble of ya) is a politaclly correct little devil after all, although he does seem to agree with politically motivated killing (re Calwell), something he has in common with the NKVD and their ilk, whom he (rightly) constantly criticises. Cant have your cake and eat it mate.
Seems like Reithy is under the cosh, look like losing your 'consultancies', according to the Sunday papers. Funny how he can get away with trading on insider knowldge, its illegal in most other countries! Ministers in most other 'western' countries are banned from taking up such 'opportunites' for 2 years or so after leaving office. Will he take the wrap for his master???? Can't wait to find out!
Brixton Dave
Obviously you cant read carefully. I said the guy would have done your lot a favour if he bumped off Caldwell b/c he held back the Labor Party. I am glad he didnt kill him b/c it delayed Whitlam's onset by a couple of years.
This is opposed to the Commo policy of destroying the intellectual class to negate any organised opposition b/f introducing stupid land reforms taking property from those who know how to farm and giving it to those who cant get off their butts and work and wouldnt know what to do with it anyway thus ******* up their economy even more than Gough ever could.
The killing off millions b/c they disagree with what is happening...yes that must be a better form of "democracy" than capitalism (because of your poor comprehension skills Brixton, I will point out that last comment was a form of sarcasm). An what do you know it isnt only right wingers who are racist, the biggest racists are your working class...go out to Footscray and see how the battlers like having the Vietnamese out there.
Anyone who says they are proud to be a Communist is akin to someone saying they are proud to be a paedophile.
I think Rohan summed it up quite nicely with respect to everything else.
wagstaff
17 Feb 2002, 10:21
Originally posted by Rohan_
You are the typical Labour follower; you claim that because Labour represents the battlers or the underdogs, they make the correct decisions.That is total rubbish and is the reason why the party you support has not won office.
You always let your lack of understanding of the true economic and political situation hinder your ability to make coherent opinions about our nation.
Liberal have delivered economic growth, decreased foreign debt, unemployment and inflation. This has all been done in a period, which saw an Asian recession and now an World recession.
This is in direct contrast too the economic mismangement of your party. Record unemployment, low growth and huge foreign debt were the cornerstones of the inept Labour Party.
It is also ironic that the party who claims to represent the battlers, is trying to lessen the role of these people by dismantling the influences of the Unions
Couldn't agree with you more about your comments about Labor, anyone who thinks that they represent the "battlers" is deluding themselves.
On the other hand, I couldn't disagree with you more about Liberal Party who are deemed successful because of their "economic management". Contraty to what is presumed in the mainstream media, things like economic growth and decreased foreign debt don't mean that the majority of the people in this country are better off. The Liberals are the party for big business and that's who their econominc policies benefit, at the expense of the majority of workers.
And for various reasons, the employment situation is nothing to crow about currently.
London Dave
17 Feb 2002, 11:59
gee picaman, when someone says ..."That bloke should have bumped off Caldwell in 66. " it seems to me you are approving of killing, but then again, it may be just your sense of humour, somthing you dont think Alf is allowed to have.
Still trying to have your cake and eat it too!
floreat picaman
17 Feb 2002, 15:57
Originally posted by London Dave
gee picaman, when someone says ..."That bloke should have bumped off Caldwell in 66. " it seems to me you are approving of killing, but then again, it may be just your sense of humour, somthing you dont think Alf is allowed to have.
Still trying to have your cake and eat it too!
but read what came straight afterwards, it was said in relation to helping the red-flaggers err....I mean Labor Party. I wasnt advocating someone to kill him. SOmeone already tried and if he was successful Labor would have gotten govt. earlier than they did. Is it so hard to understand.
And where is my chocolate cake.
And it is rumoured Alf has a sense of humour but no one can prove to me that anyone has found it.....maybe it is buried with his comrade's victims.
Fascinating topic. Although, as usual, it seems to have split down party lines, which isn't really going to get us anywhere.
This isn't going to bring down the government. Which is a pity because, if we were a truly democratic and fair society, it would. There is little doubt that either there was massive incompetence among those paid to advise John Howard and Phillip Ruddock, or there was some kind of lying and conspiracy in the upper echelons of the Liberal Party. There is no other possible interpretation.
As some have said, politicians lie; there are plenty of precedents for that. But to base the centrepiece of an electoral campaign around a lie of that magnitude, and to engineer it so that the truth of the allegation (the truth being that there is no evidence whatsoever to prove the allegation) cannot be shown to have reached the Prime Minister and the minister relevant to the subject for a whole month (or, as it appears, until last week), reeks of something beyond mere politics. And it beggars belief.
But it will mean nothing to the Liberal Party for as long as the public is set against the refugees. If opinion was to soften against them, and questions were to be asked by the public at large about the detention centres, and the 'Pacific Solution', it would suddenly become obvious to all that this Government are a pack of weaselly liars. But unfortunately, the majority of Australians have to believe whatever the Government tells them because, in their eyes, the alternative is hordes of refugees flooding the country. That is due to the extent of the spin the Government has put on the issue, and is the reasoning behind the comments by Ruddock to the effect that, regardless of the truth of the "children overboard" scandal, these Afghani refugees are "no angels".
In other words, in the eyes of the Liberal Party, "we can say what we like about them, and treat them as badly as we like, because Australians don't like them." If there's votes in it, humanity and honesty can go to hell.
And Democracy, so it seems, is expendable. For those who don't get it yet, we don't magically stay a democracy if we start to legitimise undemocratic behaviour.
The refugee issue is a vexed one, and some sort of border policy and quota system is necessary. I would hope it doesn't have to include persecution of asylum seekers, and blatant lies for political gain.
Both parties are the same. A bunch of lying economic rationilistic pigs.
Originally posted by joffa_pies4ever
OH GOD YOUR A PROFFESSOR ARN'T YOU DAVE ?
HE IS THE LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT YOU IMBICILIC FOOL!!
And here I was starting to think you'd mellowed. He may well be the leader of the government but he does not have the same sort of power as say the US president. That's all I was trying to point out.
I have no more itme for him than you do btw so next time perhaps you might direct your abuse at someone other than one who agrees with you on this topic.
Originally posted by 1AD
Defence knew it was Bull****
Prime Ministers Dept. knew it was Bull****
Immigration Dept. knew it was Bull****
Reith knew it was Bull****
YET Not ONE person told the Prime Miniture?
Look !!!!! a flying pig..........
Please add the:
Indigenous Affairs Dept. and the Office of National Assesments to the list:D
I particularly like Fabulous Phil Ruddocks excuse of " I didn't get it writing" . Didn't stop him in the first place.....
Duck....... another Flying pig....
Joe Mama
19 Feb 2002, 19:14
Well since that Packer and Murdoch have a duopoly in running the country, well it's the government's job to tug thier forlocks.
And chicken minute, the country is not full of renecks and racists, its just that there are far too many of them living here, and influencing government policy.
London Dave
19 Feb 2002, 19:20
Yeah, it suprised me on my last trip home. Funny how those who were most vehemnetly screaming about the 'unsuitability' of people who throw children overboard are keeping quiet on this particular issue, now the real story is emerging. The silence is deafening. No one likes to admit they were conned I suppose.
Don't know about rednecks and racists...most people are decent deep down.
Pessimistic
20 Feb 2002, 08:38
I am confused.
How can we show so much concern for the well-being of the children yet want to send them and their parents back to a hell-hole war zone.
And call me cynical but the truth which is now coming out is coming out at the most 'convenient' time for the libs. the SA election now over.
Speaking of SA, the liberals there are saying the victory by labour is not legit because the independent supporting them 'lied' to the electorate during the campaign ???? Irony anyone ?
The Hun is claiming that it's poll showed 91% would not have changed their vote because of the 'truth overboard' affair. so the victory is legit - but surely 9% would have which with a majority of only 1% and several seats on slender margins it would have.
It may not have because the doubts were there before the vote itself. But I think Crean is establishing doubt about the Honesty of the government, even though Reith has left. What he needs to do now is examine all things proposed by the government in that light. Nothing can be taken on face value. Remind voters every week.
Given the complicity of the media in all this the changes to media ownership in particular need to be scrutinised very carefully.
Originally posted by Pessimistic
The Hun is claiming that it's poll showed 91% would not have changed their vote because of the 'truth overboard' affair. so the victory is legit - but surely 9% would have which with a majority of only 1% and several seats on slender margins it would have.
.
In the Australian 18/2, it stated that if 7657 electors in 11 marginal seats had of voted the other way "Honest John " would
be in opposition now.
Pessimistic
20 Feb 2002, 09:59
But I think it benefits a new government to get in with a larger majority.
It is better for labour to wait to get in. We'll all be thoroughly sick of john by then.
Goldenblue
20 Feb 2002, 10:32
Originally posted by 1AD
In the Australian 18/2, it stated that if 7657 electors in 11 marginal seats had of voted the other way "Honest John " would
be in opposition now.
Dishonest John would have retired with his perks and free travel etc etc and Costello would be leader of the opposition......
dreamkillers
20 Feb 2002, 11:40
Not that I'm saying Little Johnny supports child sexual abuse.......
but I bet he is glad about the coverage it is getting at the moment and as it is keeping this scandal off of the headlines of our daily papers.........
Both of these scandals are certainly ensuring the rest of the world is wary of what is happening in the 'great land downunder'..........
:(
Judging by today,Hollingworth is Howards BUM boy and visa versa.Both these ********s should go away,play choo,choo trains and letus get on with our life.
Why dosent the Government of the day,let the PEOPLE decide thru a referendum W H O is gonna be the GG for this country.This is the 2nd or 3rd mistake Howard has made,and if he was in private enterprise he would have been SACKED,so why is he still there?????
I would have liked to have seen Howard come out thundering "Why Wasn't I Told??" last week. He seems very blase about communication breakdowns amongst his advisers. His only interest seems to be in saving his own skin, and establishing the circumstances under which he personally wasn't told.
We all know politicians lie. But things are looking pretty bleak when they openly drop even the pretence of fairness and honesty, or any desire to establish accountability and transparence.
As the nominal leader of his party, and as someone who has openly expressed his intention to raise parliamentary standards in the past, Howard has steered a very dangerous course for his party on the issues of accountability, integrity and honesty in the past few months. If he accepts any possible version of the events surrounding the children overboard scandal, he at the very least condones incompetence in his own department - certainly if he doesn't follow his current version of the story with some widespread sackings.
But as I've said, he'll weasel his way out of this one. I only hope voters can remember this come the next election; I doubt even that will happen. But in the future he will be remebered as the Prime Minister who oversaw one of the more tawdry episodes in Australia's history.
London Dave
21 Feb 2002, 01:23
As I said before, I don't think the 'overboard' incident had great bearing on the election result, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that Peter Reith has been exposed as, if not a bare faced liar, certainly someone who is 'economical with the truth'. The corroborated testimony of Air Marshall Houston has shown Reith in what I believe his true light. Reith has also put Howard in an increasingly indefensible postion.
Intersting to see Senator Hill claim 'a hatchet job' being done on Reith, and he has no ability to reply. He did, and does, but chose to refuse to make himself available as a witness.
Absolutely no sympathy for Reith at all. He had no problems putting in the boots when required, but its interesting to see his reactions when he is given a taste of his own medicine. Tastes a little foreign, doesnt it Pete. Will he have the guts to face the music?
Also interesting to note the government has 'replaced' three members of an investigatory panel with people who have, how does one say, ministerial ambitions.
Political bullcrap blown out of proportion by the media.
1) Kids were in the water. Who threw them in? So what if a political party used a situation to their advantage. Nothing new in that. Howard tells truth. Not the whole truth.....which politician does? Easy to say 'I don't want to hear any negatives about XXXX' and turn a blind eye. Election had been called. Howard only acting PM. All party politics. All the same. What's the point of all the discussion........so Labour can cry 'we was robbed'?......sour grapes.......let's get on with doing something useful, the election is over well and true.
2) Hollingworth. He had a job before he became GG. He may have made a few mistakes...don't we all? He also adid a hell of a lot of good. He is not a molestor!!!!!!!! Give the guy a break......none of you made any bad decisions in life eh? Given a person a second chance because you had faith in them?
All Humbug.........Let's get on with some real reforms and look forwards, not backwards.
London Dave
21 Feb 2002, 03:47
Frodo is back!!!!
I have no problem with politcal parties using a situation to their advantage, it's the nature of the business, but there is such a thing a ethics. I'm all for moving forward, but what went on here needs to be exposed, and the guilty punished. If not, what credibilty do the people central to this have?
Houstons testimony makes is clear Reith (and /or Howard) knew he (they) were misleading the public. Reith was told three days before polling day there was NO evidence to suggest that children were thrown overboard. This didnt come through idle chit chat, it was via a briefing from the acting head of the defence force. They then 'confirm' the original story a day later, denying there is any 'doubt' about the original 'facts' as reported.
Now, i'd suggest if the boot was on the other foot, the howls of indignation from the tories would be as loud, if not louder than what is occuring now.
Its really a simple question. Do you want an honest government or not? Politicians need not only to be clean, but to be seen to be clean. Reith fails on both counts, it remains to be seen who will join him.
Santos L Helper
21 Feb 2002, 08:04
Originally posted by Frodo
Political bullcrap blown out of proportion by the media.
1) Kids were in the water. Who threw them in? So what if a political party used a situation to their advantage. Nothing new in that. Howard tells truth. Not the whole truth.....which politician does? Easy to say 'I don't want to hear any negatives about XXXX' and turn a blind eye. Election had been called. Howard only acting PM. All party politics. All the same. What's the point of all the discussion........so Labour can cry 'we was robbed'?......sour grapes.......let's get on with doing something useful, the election is over well and true.
2) Hollingworth. He had a job before he became GG. He may have made a few mistakes...don't we all? He also adid a hell of a lot of good. He is not a molestor!!!!!!!! Give the guy a break......none of you made any bad decisions in life eh? Given a person a second chance because you had faith in them?
Frodo, what a load of rubbish. You sure your not actually one of Howard's spin doctors?
Politicians lie about election promises (granted) but this was lying to gain political mileage by exploiting the lives of these unfortunate people and he has been exposed.
Also a typical response from someone who can see no possible chance of winning an argument when you say (whimsically) 'All Humbug.........Let's get on with some real reforms and look let's get on with doing something useful, the election is over well and true'. The Australian people are now discovering something very useful..........John Howard is prepared to risk lives to stay PM.
Hollingworth may not be a molester, but I question his role in the denial of the charges laid against colleagues as molesters. If this were someone protecting a person who molested someone close to you, and not a Liberal Party patsy, I'm sure we'd hear a different tune from Frodo.
This will not go away Frodo, no matter how much you try to trivialise it.
Pessimistic
21 Feb 2002, 08:50
Originally posted by Frodo
Political bullcrap blown out of proportion by the media.
All Humbug.........Let's get on with some real reforms and look forwards, not backwards.
The point is you can't trust Howardand his bootlicking cronies to tell the truth... so what chance of real reforms that you are talking about
You slag off the ALP at any chance but at least they have some internal democracy (Caucus) and the PM would have been brought into line.
Plus many supporters are now agreeing that he barefaced lied but saying all politicians lie and it is OK ?
Do you lie Frodo ? Is it OK to lie ?
Let me assure you the truth overboard and the villification of a group of people based on the (falsified in this case) actions of one person in that group is exactly where Nazi Germany started out. And the population there cheered them on too.
Leaders have a responsibility to lead us away from base responses. There is nothing to indicate that howard would not do the same thing again and again. His hero is Menzies who stayed in power for ages by going on and on about a communist / asian threat which proved to be baseless.
Porthos
21 Feb 2002, 09:08
Originally posted by Pessimistic
You slag off the ALP at any chance but at least they have some internal democracy (Caucus) and the PM would have been brought into line.On the other hand, in the Liberal party you don't get automatically thrown out if you vote against the party on a given issue. The ALP isn't a fan of geographically representative government.
Originally posted by Frodo
2) Hollingworth. He had a job before he became GG. He may have made a few mistakes...don't we all? He also adid a hell of a lot of good. He is not a molestor!!!!!!!! Give the guy a break......none of you made any bad decisions in life eh? Given a person a second chance because you had faith in them?
Do you really want as our head of state a man who suggested that a 14 yo girl was responsible for being molested by a man who's care she was in?
That really is beyond the pale.
wagstaff
21 Feb 2002, 09:58
Originally posted by Frodo
Let's get on with some real reforms and look forwards, not backwards.
And pray tell, what would some of these "reforms" be? (and no looking at the Liberal party web site for your answers)
Fat Red
21 Feb 2002, 10:25
Originally posted by chicken minute
From where I am sitting, it would seem that Australia is full of red-necks and racists. I've been out of the country for around five years now and it really looks like Australia has gone downhill and that seems to be the concensus of other expats I know.
Definition of expat--an expert who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Ausralia has gone downhill since you left...god help whatever country has gained you.
If you were here, you would know that Australia is not full of rednecks and racists. we have plenty, but no more than we had 5 years ago.
What we do have is fearmongers in both sides of politics.
My reading of most people's objections to the refugees is the queue-jumping/law-breaking argument. It's a false argument I think, but I understand why it's widely held. Racism has little to do with this very wrong policy. There is however an element of the "I'm all right Jack" aspect of Australian culture which is a real concern IMO.
Fat Red
21 Feb 2002, 10:26
Originally posted by Porthos
On the other hand, in the Liberal party you don't get automatically thrown out if you vote against the party on a given issue.
Tell that to Greg Barns.
Posting on this board is a bit like a white democrat attending a Mugabe party meeting! So radical are most in their left wing hero worship of the 'trade union party' that common sense becomes irrelevant. The nice prose of personal abuse is plentiful but guys, I am a lone voice but you all react with such intensity that you effectively declare that you know I am right and are worried someone may listen and understand.
Yes I tend right wing, but then so did Keating!! And he's a Labour hero. Why?, because he had the tongue of a poisonous snake and you lefties just revel in Liberal bashing........damaged Australia he did albeit........but you guys don't care about that eh.......the orations in parliament is what it's all about!
Santos said :-
This will not go away Frodo, no matter how much you try to trivialise it.
Of course it will. It may be a good media tyopic for a few weeks but no-one in the cabinet will fall. And with the GG even if he goes, who cares? Who really gives a fig about the representative of the Queen?
And guys....I will put my point but don't expect debate. A radical lefty board v Frodo is a no win situation.
Santos L Helper
21 Feb 2002, 10:56
Frodo, when I say it will not go away...........I mean primarily on these boards. Sure the general public may forget it, just as the media will once they have a new bone to gnaw on, but some of us here enjoy discussing important topics at length.
Personally, I will not try to look at you as right wing when arguing because if you come up with something decent in your discussions, I will acknowledge it.
There is still one thing left for me to ask however. In this thread you say that all Governments lie to achieve their aim of obtaining power, yet in the thread where I call the early policies against Aboriginal people 'attempted genocide', you ask me to prove genocide was a policy by ordering me to look for it in released Government documents, as if they are proof of truth and justice. So which is it Frodo, are Governemts truthful or are they prone to consistent lying for their own benefit? I agree with you that they lie most of the time and therefore would never trust one of these documents you would have me investigate as proof of anything.
dreamkillers
21 Feb 2002, 14:01
Originally posted by Frodo
Political bullcrap blown out of proportion by the media.
1) Kids were in the water. Who threw them in? So what if a political party used a situation to their advantage. Nothing new in that. Howard tells truth. Not the whole truth.....which politician does? Easy to say 'I don't want to hear any negatives about XXXX' and turn a blind eye. Election had been called. Howard only acting PM. All party politics. All the same. What's the point of all the discussion........so Labour can cry 'we was robbed'?......sour grapes.......let's get on with doing something useful, the election is over well and true.
2) Hollingworth. He had a job before he became GG. He may have made a few mistakes...don't we all? He also adid a hell of a lot of good. He is not a molestor!!!!!!!! Give the guy a break......none of you made any bad decisions in life eh? Given a person a second chance because you had faith in them?
All Humbug.........Let's get on with some real reforms and look forwards, not backwards.
1) The kids probably jumped themselves......it was very easy to say they were thrown until we saw the full picture that showed a boat almost completely under water.....I would think most people would get themselves off the boat in that situation........but we weren't supposed to see that.
I'm not interested in the 'Labor We Was Robbed' crap that the Liberals have been spinning since this important issue flared up.......I'm interested in knowing what actually happened and what was covered up (or not let known to the general public) and the longer this has gone on the more cover ups are being exposed............
Just think this is only the first small senate enquiry - I can't wait for the bigger one that will be looking much wider issues like how many millions have been wasted trying to keep a few thousand people out of the country.
I love it how they say they have slowed them down with their policies........forgetting to mention it's the monsoon season up here in the North........the real test will be how things go from May this year when monsoonal activity is almost non existant south of the equator........
2)......I agree with you on the point......he isn't a molester........
as for giving him a second chance......sounds like he's had 3 or 4 given his recent press releases and says he would have done thing differently now..........very easy to say with hindsight but it doesn't stop the fact he has on a number of occasions been involved in covering up child abuse........
IMO anyone who partakes, assists (no matter how slight) or helps cover up these hideous crimes is almost as bad as a child abuser themselves........
No he hasn't done anything like this since becoming G-G (that we are aware of) but with these slurs on his past there is no way I (and others) want him as our head of state as I believe it reflects poorly on our nation............
stand him aside and bring back William Deane (liked by both sides of politics) until the Anglican Church Inquiry is complete - it's good to see at least the church appears to want to clear things up and find out what really did happen.
As for the real reforms I agree we need them.........although I don't see either of the major parties acting on the reforms this country really needs..........like reversing the destruction to the environment in this country that both of the major parties have had a great hand in............if we keep going like we are there won't be much left worth keeping within 100 years........
I wish Australia would take the lead in environmental policy give the uniqueness of the country we have instead of bowing to anything the US say.
and then there are the topics of education & health where both parties again have been involved with downgrading this countries systems over the last 30 years or more -
As you say you 'tend right wing' - could you then please explain to us how this big push for 'globalisation' of which both parties have supported in the past (Johnny keeps mentioning it as well) will be of any benefit to the people and businesses based in this country.
All we hear is how good it will be for us all without any actual details of what this 'good' really is.........
The only good I see is to the US and other major economies in the world (something we are no-where near) at the expense of genuine businesses and the lifestyle of the majority of people living in this country. We'll just become a branch residence for big business with profits going offshore and the gap between the filthy rich and the rest of us growing bigger and bigger.
I've asked the question of the benefits to Australia of 'globalisation' on a number of posts but yet to see anyone prepared to answer the question..........
PS....Frodo.....I hope you see there is no personal abuse in the above post........I'd like to think I don't droop to those standards except when 'debating' with opposition supporters at the footy....:D
Pessimistic
21 Feb 2002, 14:13
You are alone because not many are supporting howard on this one... and the excuses are very lame.
What was it today "I can't see anything in this which warrants sacking the Govenor general ?"
Let Reithy have a go, John, he'll see even less.
GG must be feeling much better now John has supported him.
Shinboners
21 Feb 2002, 19:45
Originally posted by Pessimistic
You are alone because not many are supporting howard on this one...
Interesting that Peter Costello and Tony Abbot haven't come running to help Howard in his defence. If there is political point scoring to be done, or if there is a position where they know they can win, and when it's something that is getting high exposure in the media, the political heavyweights will find a way to get into the debate. But the fact that Costello and Abbot have stayed clear indicates to me that they feel that these are two political issues that the government can't win.
Actually it's kinda lucky for Howard that the Coalition were elected. With his advisers' capacity for keeping unwanted information from him, he might have spent six months wandering around under the misconception he was still running the country otherwise.
We can probably leave Frodo drifting aimlessly through his 1950s relaxed-and-comfortable world. Cheering on the destruction of parliamentary standards isn't a particularly edifying sight.
I'd hate to see any sympathy extended towards the refugees. I really don't think the government has dehumanised them enough. Smearing them as child-killers wasn't quite as successful as planned (if only the Defence Department were as fast and loose with the truth as the Liberals!); branding them as possible terrorists didn't stick; "queue-jumpers" and "illegal immigrants" were nice, resonant phrases, but sections of Australian society still want to stick up for their rights.
Perhaps if we could get Ruddock to commission a film of them and portray them as rats infiltrating our society... oops, nearly forgot, that's already been done in the 1930s....
London Dave
21 Feb 2002, 22:38
Frodo,
"Howard tells truth. Not the whole truth.....which politician does?"
There is a difference between telling the 'truth' as all the information you have indicate to you at the time, and doing what Reith (and perhaps Howard did). If you can't see the difference, heaven help you.
lol at your film making tips RogerC. I can suggest a title for the film of the next Liberal party conference...Triumph of the Will!
Maggie Greg
21 Feb 2002, 23:54
Just finished watching question time and I can see why LAbor get their arses kicked there every time.
The Libs have turned it around on Crean & Co by stating in the lead up to the election they said they supported the Govt policy on the refugees, then as soon as they lost the election they said actually it wasnt true we dont support it. Meaning they were heaven forbid, telling fibs in the lead up to the election so they wouldnt lose votes.
Dont get me wrong, I think the Libs tell porkies too, I am just pointing out they are as bad as each other.
by frodo
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Posting on this board is a bit like a white democrat attending a Mugabe party meeting! So radical are most in their left wing hero worship of the 'trade union party' that common sense becomes irrelevant. The nice prose of personal abuse is plentiful but guys, I am a lone voice but you all react with such intensity that you effectively declare that you know I am right and are worried someone may listen and understand.
Yes I tend right wing, but then so did Keating!! And he's a Labour hero. Why?, because he had the tongue of a poisonous snake and you lefties just revel in Liberal bashing........damaged Australia he did albeit........but you guys don't care about that eh.......the orations in parliament is what it's all about!
Santos said :-
This will not go away Frodo, no matter how much you try to trivialise it.
Of course it will. It may be a good media tyopic for a few weeks but no-one in the cabinet will fall. And with the GG even if he goes, who cares? Who really gives a fig about the representative of the Queen?
And guys....I will put my point but don't expect debate. A radical lefty board v Frodo is a no win situation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
very arrogant frodo
first of all i dont vote at all,
im not a leftist/rightist of whatever but i would support the unions over non unions any day, why? its simple, people will do whats best for themselves, better the average guy gets looked after than the rich executives and thier lapdogs
today the unions are pathetic, but 20-30 years ago from what my dad has told me they made life bearable in some of the harshest conditions of australia, you think a politician will care if someone works 16 hrs a day, no paid holidays, no nothing, seriously you know they wouldnt,
in my opinion in the end if unions are needed to protect the rights of workers (and admit it in this country they are) then the system itself is an inherent failure and the system itself is wrong.
i dont think labour/libs are any different from each other, manipulated/funded by the same powerfull and rich individuals/lobbies/corporations. Anyone who thinks there is a vibrant and active political climate that is moving towards the betterment of the austrlian way of life is ignorant. Just like in the states 80% of the people "donating" to one party donated to another. eg good old enron.
Secondly if you actually support the governments stand on refugees then you need to have a good hard look at your morals.
The large majority of people just want thse people treated with some respect and dignity and that evil thing of those stupid do gooders called compassion. (im sure howard will try to make it illegal soon). Fine even keep them "detained" to an area but not in concentration camps, and yes that is exactly what they are. There are compassionate solutions that would also meet the security requirements of this country and its obligations to a decent moral code. curretly were abiding by hitlers one.
Simple facts
if the detention centres were as ruddock claimed such lovely places to live the media would be allowed inside and the government would use every brown nosing politically scoring opporturnity to promote itself as the saviour of mankind. If the media isnt allowed inside, its NOT good, your logic will tell you that. youre telling me that a politician has a chance to show you how great thier government is and show themselves kissing babies saving the poor and destitute and they wouldnt take it?
lies, manipulation, logic will tell you that
if these people were living in comfortable surroundings that were so "great" they wouldnt be sewing thier lips together, i dont know about you but i wouldnt do that unless i was desperate.
would you do it as you claim they do just because they are spoilt rich selfish creeps"
would you? think for a minute, seriously ponder it and allow yourself to question it.
and by the way where does the que start?? do they let people go and apply during thier breaks of oppression??
ok today we wont opress you, go to those nice australians and ask to go live there, tommorow we will beat you again, kill anyone who opposess us and torture the rest.
if things were as the government claimed they would jump at the chance to show the world,
they have been shown to have intentionally lied and misled the australian people and demonished a destitute minority and you allow yourself to stand up for them? what kind of human being are you? where is your compassion, your logic, love or righteousness.
and seriously, only an idiot will beleive that a terrorist wouldnt have the means to come into this country by plane, if they can afford weapons costing in the millions they can afford a stupid plane ticket.
try to walk in thier shoes for a moment,
joffa_pies4ever
22 Feb 2002, 06:31
Originally posted by Frodo
Political bullcrap blown out of proportion by the media.
1) Kids were in the water. Who threw them in? So what if a political party used a situation to their advantage. Nothing new in that. Howard tells truth. Not the whole truth.....which politician does? Easy to say 'I don't want to hear any negatives about XXXX' and turn a blind eye. Election had been called. Howard only acting PM. All party politics. All the same. What's the point of all the discussion........so Labour can cry 'we was robbed'?......sour grapes.......let's get on with doing something useful, the election is over well and true.
2) Hollingworth. He had a job before he became GG. He may have made a few mistakes...don't we all? He also adid a hell of a lot of good. He is not a molestor!!!!!!!! Give the guy a break......none of you made any bad decisions in life eh? Given a person a second chance because you had faith in them?
All Humbug.........Let's get on with some real reforms and look forwards, not backwards.
Your real dissapointing infact you really have become imbarrasing
nah he wasn't a child molester, but he did nothing to bring the dirty stinken child molester's to justice.He helped sweep it under the carpet and to me THATS as good as GUILTY!!
And it's been proved this most evil government lied about the refugees throwing children into the water, what other lies have been told.
GO THE BLOODY BATTLERS!!!
I have read this post and as far as im concerned everything is ok so please dont start another LETS BOOT JOFFA FROM BIGFOOTY OK.
oh by the way frodo have a nice day!!