View Full Version : Draft/Trade
nicko016
14 Sep 2006, 23:35
Who should we look at in the Draft in Trade. I'd look at Leunberger and Riewodlt for our first pick and then some quick midfielders.
There's a few players I reckon we could target in trade week. I'm not sure about there contracts though but for most our second round draft pick (27) and a fringe player might do. These players would be:
M Seaby, D Hale, B Reilly, K Simpson, A Bentick, S Dodd, J Kelly, S Salopek, N Malceski, S Butler, M Rosa.
Most are quickish midfielders who could develop into good players and would add to our depth.
Jeremias
15 Sep 2006, 00:01
Interesting to see you are interested in Simpson and Bentick.
What would you be willing to give up for each of them?
Keep in mind that Simpson is virtually untradeable, so it would have to be something very good.
Also interesting to see you mention Bentick-wouldn't have thought many would be interested in him-doesn't do the spectacular, surprised he has caught your eye. Very solid player.
borderbarry
15 Sep 2006, 12:25
I would suggest we would need one ruck, one big defender, and the rest quick mid-fielders. De-list or trade either Blake or Ackland, Powell has retired, Peckett should, and we should de-list or trade 3 or 4 of Murray, McGough, Fiora, maybe Raymond who cant seem to get a game for Scorps Seniors, Schwartz. We dont need to be recruiting any more than 5 or 6. Maybe promote Pfitzner, recruit a ruckman, a large defender, and 3 mid-fielders. I would like one of them at least to be a fast a aboriginal player.
Anyone agree with this?
We must keep our first and second pick in a bumper draft so that leaves us with late picks and dud or old players (assuming no one wants out). We aren't going to trade for much.
The Punter
15 Sep 2006, 16:30
Who should we look at in the Draft in Trade. I'd look at Leunberger and Riewoldt for our first pick and then some quick midfielders.
There's a few players I reckon we could target in trade week. I'm not sure about there contracts though but for most our second round draft pick (27) and a fringe player might do. These players would be:
M Seaby, D Hale, B Reilly, K Simpson, A Bentick, S Dodd, J Kelly, S Salopek, N Malceski, S Butler, M Rosa.
Most are quickish midfielders who could develop into good players and would add to our depth.
I think we should be going after midfielders full stop. We have defenders, just Gilbert needs some more muscle and Maguire got injured. Remember Andy Kellaway is on the market and could be good value for a couple of years as a hard-working, honest defender.
Of the possible trade targets, obviously ruckmen are prevalent. Seaby isn't much chop, but Hale would be interesting but difficult to get. Carlton are very unlikely to let Simpson or Bentick go for anything. Salopek has just cemented his spot in a young, exciting Power team, and the same with Malceski, Butler and Rosa. James Kelly is not quick, and that is our deficiency. Don't know much about Reilly, but apparently Sheedy is keen on him.
nicko016
15 Sep 2006, 21:15
Interesting to see you are interested in Simpson and Bentick.
What would you be willing to give up for each of them?
Keep in mind that Simpson is virtually untradeable, so it would have to be something very good.
Also interesting to see you mention Bentick-wouldn't have thought many would be interested in him-doesn't do the spectacular, surprised he has caught your eye. Very solid player.
To tell you the truth, I haven't actually seen him that much of Bentick but have read that he is quick. However, his stats have him third in 1st possesions at Carlton, 3rd for clearances and 1st for contested possessions at Carlton. This shows that he is very good in the contested stuff. The best midfielders are those who are both quick and good in the contested stuff and he has both of these attributes. The best examples are Judd and Burgoyne. You would have seen him more so is this a fair assessment?
As for what we give up I don't think we could give up enough for Simpson, but he would fit us nicely. Would our 2nd round pick (27 I think) and say Ackland or Ferguson cut it?
Kouta_legend
16 Sep 2006, 01:44
pick 27 + a hack, id rather keep our future captain in simpson
Warwick
16 Sep 2006, 01:49
You have to trade quality to get quality. You can't expect Carlton or any other teams to trade their good players for an average pick and some spare parts.
Jimthegreat
16 Sep 2006, 17:48
To tell you the truth, I haven't actually seen him that much of Bentick but have read that he is quick. However, his stats have him third in 1st possesions at Carlton, 3rd for clearances and 1st for contested possessions at Carlton. This shows that he is very good in the contested stuff. The best midfielders are those who are both quick and good in the contested stuff and he has both of these attributes. The best examples are Judd and Burgoyne. You would have seen him more so is this a fair assessment?
As for what we give up I don't think we could give up enough for Simpson, but he would fit us nicely. Would our 2nd round pick (27 I think) and say Ackland or Ferguson cut it?No. In my "expert" opinion sitting here on my couch I'd say that Simmo's is close to untouchable, unless of course he's out of contract and walks.
You're almost right on Bentick except he isn't quick. Plays more a Brett Ratten/Sam Mitchell role. Be nice if he turned out as good.
Kildonan
16 Sep 2006, 23:04
Bentick is a player of similar ilk to Powell and McGough.
They don't look pretty, but they're vital in making the highly skilled midfielders look good. They do a lot of the in and under work, gain first possessions and give the ball off or tie it up. Frequently get a few tackles as well.
This type of player often doesn't get the time to get disposals away cleanly so are dogged by claims of poor disposal.
Hale would be interesting but difficult to get.
You're not wrong.He would be difficult to get for a few reasons.The amount of investment that has gone into him given he is a player the club has built/is building, and the fact that for a ruckman, he is still only a baby but already a valuable player, you'd have to give up a bit.Added to that, the Kangaroos would know that Hale could solve a few problems for St.Kilda,and that even on its own would force them to play hardball.My thoughts are that it could be done, but I doubt St.Kilda would come to the party, and for that, and the fact we are talking about a future star, North wouldn't either.
You'd have to give up something like a straight swap for a top tier (ie - a Dal Santo), or a mid range pick (somewhere in the vicinity of a 20's - early 30's), and a mid range player (ie - a Montagna etc).Since the Roos would be fixing what is a gaping hole at St.Kilda, they'd be expecting the same in return and although we have class acts like Smith and McConnell coming through, a (top line) outside midfielder would be the go.
nicko016
17 Sep 2006, 20:46
I didn't really think pick 27 and a player such as Ferguson would do for Simpson but I thought it might do for Bentick. However, I thought he was quick and given that he isn't I porbably wouldn't want him any way. What we need is a quick player who can play in the centre square. We already have Montagna who is going to be a star but he isn't really suited to the centre square. We need a quick player who is going to be able to use their pace out of centre clearances. At the moment we have fairly one-paced midfielders inside the centre square. Any ideas on who we could get?
Premiership Quarter
17 Sep 2006, 21:19
I think pick 27 would be sufficient for Bentick..No player needed. Win win for both clubs.
Jeremias
17 Sep 2006, 21:40
I think pick 27 would be sufficient for Bentick..No player needed. Win win for both clubs.
Yeah I would probably do that.
Bentick shows he will be ok, just gives 110% all the time. Great tackler as well. But he is slow, and I think that Blackwell will overtake him. Having said that, would like to keep him as I think he can add something to the team.
Pick 27 in this draft especially, could still get us a very good player. Would be a good player for us.
Would you Saints be interested in Carrazzo?
nicko016
17 Sep 2006, 21:57
Yeah I would probably do that.
Bentick shows he will be ok, just gives 110% all the time. Great tackler as well. But he is slow, and I think that Blackwell will overtake him. Having said that, would like to keep him as I think he can add something to the team.
Pick 27 in this draft especially, could still get us a very good player. Would be a good player for us.
Would you Saints be interested in Carrazzo?
Maybe. Is he very quick and can he play in the centre square? Because in my opinion we need someone quick who can play in the centre square and give us some dash out of centre clearances.
Jeremias
17 Sep 2006, 22:06
Maybe. Is he very quick and can he play in the centre square? Because in my opinion we need someone quick who can play in the centre square and give us some dash out of centre clearances.
He certainly isn't the fastest going around, but having said that he does have quite good pace. Can play anywhere, really. Small/medium defender, midfielder or defensive forward. Disposal is poor, however. Has absolutely no trouble in finding the ball.
Would be a good pickup for any team, valuable, and would certainly look very good with better players around him.
mad-saint-guy
17 Sep 2006, 23:15
We won't trade either of our first two picks. In fact I doubt that we will trade at all.
Draft
Pick 9 - Albert Proud, Joel Selwood, Thomas Hislop
Pick 27 - Gavin Uquart, other pacey midfielders/HFF'ers
3rd-Round pick: If there is a decent ruckman/KPP available we'll go for him otherwise we'll just draft more midfielders
4th-round pick: That kid that plays in Stewie Loewe's team that won the league B&F (is a ruckman, great skills, great mark, good pace, only been playing for a couple of years)
5th-round pick: JB's smokey
mad-saint-guy
17 Sep 2006, 23:17
He certainly isn't the fastest going around, but having said that he does have quite good pace. Can play anywhere, really. Small/medium defender, midfielder or defensive forward. Disposal is poor, however. Has absolutely no trouble in finding the ball.
Would be a good pickup for any team, valuable, and would certainly look very good with better players around him.
Third Round pick? Would he be able to play on and negate the Wirrpanda/Johncock/Gilbee types while kicking a couple of goals? What's his endurance like?
mad-saint-guy
17 Sep 2006, 23:18
I think pick 27 would be sufficient for Bentick..No player needed. Win win for both clubs.
We won't trade either of our first two picks. Pacey midfielders needed.
Jeremias
17 Sep 2006, 23:27
Third Round pick? Would he be able to play on and negate the Wirrpanda/Johncock/Gilbee types while kicking a couple of goals? What's his endurance like?
What pick is your 3rd rounder?
He would be able to play on them, and he would put pressure on them to keep it in the 50. Hasn't got a good kick so whether he would kick goals is debatable. But he would be able to supply the other forwards. But I think he is more suited to a midfield role, even running out of the back pocket, will provide quite a bit of drive. Played forward only once I think, was against Hawks and played on Guerra. Certainly kept him quiter, and created a lot of opportunities. But kicked 1 goal 3 or 4, so kicking isn't so good. But certainly worried the defenders with his pressure, which would keep the ball in the 50 zone for a while.
Endurance is pretty good.
mad-saint-guy
17 Sep 2006, 23:38
What pick is your 3rd rounder?
Pick 43 I think. If we could get him for that I'd be interested.
Jeremias
17 Sep 2006, 23:44
Pick 43 I think. If we could get him for that I'd be interested.
That pick is too low. You would either need to trade for a better pick, or offer us a player on top of the pick. There is no way we would trade Carrazzo for pick 43.
whippersnipper
17 Sep 2006, 23:56
Wouldnt mind Rix for Carazzo, but I doubt you guys would go for that, would you? Carrazzo would be worth a pick around 30-40, I reckon, more likely the lower end of that. Having said that, not sure if I would want to trade him.
evertonfc
18 Sep 2006, 00:07
Some reasonable trade talk here - good to see it's coming with a minimun of slander.
Bentick and Carrazzo don't interest me enough to think about parting with anything better than a 3rd round pick. Certainly, that wouldn't be enough for Carlton - they could snaffle better deals elsewhere.
I wouldn't mind trading one of Ferguson, Brooks, Blake, Rix or Ackland for the right price. I'd even do Sam Fisher if it was a pearler of a deal.
Kildonan
18 Sep 2006, 00:29
Carazzo would be a good pick up but I doubt that we will make any trades on that level. Our only likely trade would be for a good ruckman.
I think Brooks and Kosi may be our first two ruck choices, Ackland remains servicable and Rix is good backup.
We will most likely return to our youth policy. Sticking to draftees in the national draft and improving out utilisation of the rookie draft.
nicko016
18 Sep 2006, 14:10
I'd be fairly happy with Carazzo for our 3rd round pick. If not what about a trade of Carazzo for Ackland?
Apart from trading for a quick midfielder who is going to make an immediate impact I don't think we will should trade to get any other players. But I think we should consider trading one or two of Brooks, Ferguson, Ackland, Schwarze and Fiora for draft picks. This would give us a few extra lowly draft picks which in this so called 'superdraft' could be worth much more. However, I would only get rid of one ruckmen in the offseason and look at drafting a ruckmen and some quickish midfielders.
Mad Saint Guy do you have any info on Selwood, Proud and Hislop? Are they explosively quick or just quick?
Bourky23
18 Sep 2006, 14:33
carrazzo would be good... he'd be able to play grammy's role and we could chuck grammy into the midfield
Except he's about 5'2" tall and can't kick over a jam tin. :p
mad-saint-guy
18 Sep 2006, 14:55
Except he's about 5'2" tall and can't kick over a jam tin. :p
He's actually 187cm (taller than Gram) and does have a decent kicking efficiency percentage,
The Punter
18 Sep 2006, 17:06
I think they should rename this board the "St Kilda supporters suffer Carlton supporters" board.
Hale for either Dal Santo or Montagna + 2nd Round pick isn't going to happen. Remember that this is not the trade happy professional sporting leagues of the USA. Trades don't happen very often, and last year is an example of that.
You have to give up something you are either willing to let go under the circumstances. I doubt St Kilda would give up Dal Santo for any ruckman in the league, even Dean Cox. David Hale is still unproven.
To the draft, I think Selwood would be a steal at #9, as his brothers are tough, tagging types who can get plenty of the footy themselves. I'll be doing cartwheels in my lounge if we get Selwood.
lethalselbow
19 Sep 2006, 10:20
Interested to know why most St Kilda fans think Blake is trade bait or a hack? I thought he looked alright, but i don't watch too many Saint games.
Bourky23
19 Sep 2006, 12:04
Interested to know why most St Kilda fans think Blake is trade bait or a hack? I thought he looked alright, but i don't watch too many Saint games.
haha obviously
Hale for either Dal Santo or Montagna + 2nd Round pick isn't going to happen. Remember that this is not the trade happy professional sporting leagues of the USA. Trades don't happen very often, and last year is an example of that.
Which is what I said.The point I was getting at is that that is what St.Kilda would have to look to be giving up for him if they were ultra keen.
You have to give up something you are either willing to let go under the circumstances. I doubt St Kilda would give up Dal Santo for any ruckman in the league, even Dean Cox.Oh I think they would.Particularly for one who is still 22 and has a huge amount of upside to him, most of which is he has at least another 8-10 years in him.The ruck is a gaping hole at St.Kilda atm, they are using "band aid" options, but I would be very annoyed to see Hale traded. David Hale is still unproven.
I would argue that.What I would say is that he still has a lot of improvement in him.People need to remember something about Hale.He was a bottom age player that was always going to need developing, but the skill and precision in his attributes was always there, even at 16.Hence being a top 10draft pick ala McIntosh.And on top of that is the versatility, of both he and McIntosh.Both of them are just as effective in front of goal.Most ruckman don't hit their straps until about 26, and by that time I assume Hale will be well within the top 3 in the comp, if he at that stage is our no.1 ruckman.By that stage if his general progress goes to plan, I wouldn't be surprised if Moran would be.And there is another one who can serve multiple purposes.
Williams02
20 Sep 2006, 13:48
U guys have been talking about picking up a ruckman....
Wat r ur thoughts on Laycock
Personally i rate him pretty highly but he is constently injured.
Although i think its pretty probable that he wont be playing for essendon next year... wat would u guys give up for him.. if u r interested at all of course.
mad-saint-guy
20 Sep 2006, 15:45
Mad Saint Guy do you have any info on Selwood, Proud and Hislop? Are they explosively quick or just quick?
Proud: Very fast, highly skilled, strong inside midfielder. Is an absolute tank and will be playing AFL in his first season.
Selwood: Best clearance player in the draft (except for perhaps Gibbs), has extremely clean hands, a bit of pace, but kicking (while reliable) lacks penetration/power. Similar to Scott West, or even Luke Ball.
Hislop: Shoulder reco a bit of a worry, but has been likened to Lenny Hayes. Good all-round midfielder. Great kick, plenty of mongrel, not slow, gets lots of the ball.
Those three are the stand-out midfielders after Gibbs, and we're very fourtunate there are so many quality KPPs going early letting the midfielders slip.
mad-saint-guy
20 Sep 2006, 15:47
U guys have been talking about picking up a ruckman....
Wat r ur thoughts on Laycock
Personally i rate him pretty highly but he is constently injured.
Although i think its pretty probable that he wont be playing for essendon next year... wat would u guys give up for him.. if u r interested at all of course.
While I don't think we need another ok ruckman, if we were interested we'd probably offer any of Schwarze/Blake/Fiora.
Williams02
20 Sep 2006, 17:02
While I don't think we need another ok ruckman, if we were interested we'd probably offer any of Schwarze/Blake/Fiora.
Not enough.... surely:o
nicko016
20 Sep 2006, 21:30
Proud: Very fast, highly skilled, strong inside midfielder. Is an absolute tank and will be playing AFL in his first season.
Selwood: Best clearance player in the draft (except for perhaps Gibbs), has extremely clean hands, a bit of pace, but kicking (while reliable) lacks penetration/power. Similar to Scott West, or even Luke Ball.
Hislop: Shoulder reco a bit of a worry, but has been likened to Lenny Hayes. Good all-round midfielder. Great kick, plenty of mongrel, not slow, gets lots of the ball.
Those three are the stand-out midfielders after Gibbs, and we're very fourtunate there are so many quality KPPs going early letting the midfielders slip.
Thanks for posting this. I probably go for Proud just over Selwood, mainly because he has a lot of pace and good skills. Once Lenny comes back and Bally gets back to full fitness we should be right in the clearances. They are both predicted to be top 10 and hopefully at least 1 will be available. Hopefully too, Hislop can slip through to our second pick but not likely.
Bourky23
20 Sep 2006, 21:47
yeah i'd pick proud out of that group
Kildonan
20 Sep 2006, 22:00
U guys have been talking about picking up a ruckman....
Wat r ur thoughts on Laycock
Personally i rate him pretty highly but he is constently injured.
Although i think its pretty probable that he wont be playing for essendon next year... wat would u guys give up for him.. if u r interested at all of course.
Laycock is a similar type of player to Brooks - he can play in the ruck but he will take some time to become the main Ruckman and will have to hold down a key forward position to maintain his spot in the squad.
We probably would be better advised to target a first rate specialist ruckman or none at all.
Invigoration
20 Sep 2006, 22:03
What are you guys thinking will happen with Barry Brooks?
I always heard he was never in great favor with Thomas, and it's obviously shown only playing a handful of games in 5 seasons? (It has been 5 yeh?)
I've always liked the look of him and would hate to see him just slip away? Collingwood would be perfect for him, exactly what they need. His a ready made ruckman now, a good back up for Fraser. What would the Saints ask, obviously they wouldnt have much power to bargain from his football career so far, but enlighten me on what you guys think he would be worth
Gunnar Longshanks
21 Sep 2006, 21:31
M Seaby, S Butler, M Rosa.What would you offer for these guys?
Two things:
WC only have two ruckmen. Seaby is a player we need.
Butler is going to be a very good player. People at WC know that. He's 21 and is best 22. That's pretty impressive when you look at the quality we already have in our midfield.
What would you guys offer to persuade WC to part with the players mentioned?
Kildonan
21 Sep 2006, 23:31
Trade idea
I am impressed with a Sydney Reserves player, Tim Schmidt, who debuted this year (2 matches in total) in the AFL side. A midfielder in the reserves, he played wing for Sydney. This kid is one of the most immaculate kicks of a football that I have ever seen. He seems to get voted best for the Sydney reserves team almost every time he plays, frequently getting 30+, even 40+ possessions.
I wonder what they would want for him.
KING-JAMES
24 Sep 2006, 11:57
You guys might not like this one but i think its pretty even. I dont want to see Laycock go as i rate him very highly when he is fit an has all the potential in the world but he seems to be playing hardball with Essendon so how about
Pick 18 and Laycock for pick 9? You will get a quality ruckmen who is ready for senior football now and another pick. I have heard you cant trade priority picks but i also hear you can get permission from the AFL to.
Saint Corin
24 Sep 2006, 12:46
While it isn't a bad idea...
Laycock is another ruck/forward and a bit injury prone, I wouldn't call him a quality rucking option either really... He is playing silly buggers with essendon, wanting more money, and he hasn't earned it really, I don't wana spend money on him if it's going to put in danger keeping ot good group togeather.
Kildonan
26 Sep 2006, 22:27
Who thinks that St Kilda would be willing to trade their first pick?
What would we need to entice us to do so? A top 10 ruckman? a similar quality midfielder? A key defender?
I think we will retain our first pick. It would take a sweet deal to pry it out of our hands.
nicko016
26 Sep 2006, 23:05
A quality or really promising midfielder. One I'd consider is Steven Salopek.
lethalselbow
27 Sep 2006, 12:54
I think you'll find that every side will be retaining their first draft pick. The draft is so strong that you'd be mad to give it up.
borderbarry
2 Oct 2006, 20:07
I hope the Saints dont trade for players, only improved draft positions.
Jonesy1987
2 Oct 2006, 20:39
As Spider is out of contract and Saints need a developed ruckman would St.Kilda consider getting him back now that Grant Thomas has gone as the main reason he left was bad blood with Thomas
TheGeneral
2 Oct 2006, 23:10
Wouldnt mind Rix for Carazzo, but I doubt you guys would go for that, would you? Carrazzo would be worth a pick around 30-40, I reckon, more likely the lower end of that. Having said that, not sure if I would want to trade him.
A back up ruckman for a defender/midfielder who has done beaten Davey in the past and can win the ball?
We're not that desperate for a ruckman if it's Rix
Maybe if it's a straight swap for Goddard. ;)
lethalselbow
3 Oct 2006, 07:29
St Kilda can also pay Everitt what he wants and only have half of it go towards the salary cap. You guys deserve each other. :D
He's been an Albatross around Hawthorn's neck.
Give us Blake & a late pick for Everitt :rolleyes:
Depending on what the new coach thinks, will depend on whether we try and trade for a ruckman.
After GT sacked Capuano, he basically said that he didn't rate ruckman at all.
Despite being shown to be wrong countless times as opposition ruckman absolutely destroed us, GT remained firm on his stance. I put it down to his deadset pig headedness (is that a word!!) and his refusal to admit he was wrong.
Let Rix, Ackland and Brookes battle it out for the No#1 rucking spot. Rix and Brokkes never got a fair crack, and Cain Ackland always seemed to be the one to take a fall for a loss (Same with Troy Schwarze)
And please, please give up on trying to make Jason Blake something he isn't.
Kildonan
3 Oct 2006, 21:27
GT didn't rate ruckmen who didn't contribute in other ways.
This is the reason Jason Blake was played as a ruckman, he would end up getting almost the same number of effective hitouts as one of our dedicated ruckmen, but he would get 20 possessions as well.
A new coach is sure to have a different approach, and our ruck stocks are all maturing into potential AFL grade ruckmen, so Blake may not ever play that role again. In fact he may find himself without a place in the team.