View Full Version : 'Bluffing' Botham thinks we're running scared
Is he bluffing, being an ******** or just likes his name in the press?
Beefy clains that Aussies are fearful Of England
Ian 'Beefy' Botham claims Australia will be wracked by fear at the prospect of facing England's pace attack in the Ashes.
The legendary all-rounder also believes England's decision to make Andrew Flintoff captain for the tour, rather than Andrew Strauss, will have sent shockwaves through the Australia squad.
England's outstanding fast bowling paved the way for Ashes glory last year, with Simon Jones, Matthew Hoggard, Steve Harmison and Flintoff proving destructive.
This time England will tour without Jones, whose knee injury sidelines him until next season, but the remainder of the attack remains intact, with Sajid Mahmood and James Anderson vying for the role of fourth seamer.
"I expect England to retain the Ashes this winter because our four-pronged pace attack will haunt Australia as much as they were unsettled in 2005," Botham told the Daily Mirror.
"I can't see how Australia's batsmen will be any better equipped to deal with Freddie Flintoff's fab four quick bowlers this time round."
Botham, 50, added: "For me, if Flintoff, Steve Harmison, Matthew Hoggard and Sajid Mahmood stay fit and hunt as a pack, the Ashes stay where they belong. Right here."
Botham argued that Australia "must slay the demons" of their Ashes defeat, but predicted that with Flintoff at the helm England would be daunting opponents.
"I notice Ricky Ponting was surprised by Flintoff's appointment as captain, which means the Aussies would have preferred to see Andrew Strauss get the job," said Botham.
"That's no reflection on Strauss, who did a terrific job against Pakistan this summer, but chairman of selectors David Graveney was right when he said the Aussies fear Freddie."
Ian 'Beefy' Botham claims Australia will be wracked by fear at the prospect of facing England's pace attack in the Ashes.
The legendary all-rounder also believes England's decision to make Andrew Flintoff captain for the tour, rather than Andrew Strauss, will have sent shockwaves through the Australia squad.
England's outstanding fast bowling paved the way for Ashes glory last year, with Simon Jones, Matthew Hoggard, Steve Harmison and Flintoff proving destructive.
This time England will tour without Jones, whose knee injury sidelines him until next season, but the remainder of the attack remains intact, with Sajid Mahmood and James Anderson vying for the role of fourth seamer.
"I expect England to retain the Ashes this winter because our four-pronged pace attack will haunt Australia as much as they were unsettled in 2005," Botham told the Daily Mirror.
"I can't see how Australia's batsmen will be any better equipped to deal with Freddie Flintoff's fab four quick bowlers this time round."
Botham, 50, added: "For me, if Flintoff, Steve Harmison, Matthew Hoggard and Sajid Mahmood stay fit and hunt as a pack, the Ashes stay where they belong. Right here."Gotta love the typical fat c*nts arrogance, even if it was their first series win in 18 years and this time 'round on our turf.
Botham argued that[b] Australia "must slay the demons" of their Ashes defeat, but predicted that with Flintoff at the helm England would be daunting opponents.
"I notice Ricky Ponting was surprised by Flintoff's appointment as captain, which means the Aussies would have preferred to see Andrew Strauss get the job," said Botham.
"That's no reflection on Strauss, who did a terrific job against Pakistan this summer, but chairman of selectors David Graveney was right when he said the Aussies fear Freddie."
I didn't bother responding to allthe Botham dribble.I find it interesting that he is so confident, but then, its Botham.I highlighted in bold a few interesting if not laughable parts of your post Romeo because I find it quite interesting, and laughable.Personally regarding flogster/the south african, Ponting wouldn't give a f*ck.Whenever Botham writes it should be known as "Bothams banter".And he should be relegated to being a Crackers Keenan in inside football.Thats about where he stands in cricket these days.The fact that the Limeys take him seriously is a pretty "headshakingly" embarassing situation. :)
Gotta love the typical fat c*nts arrogance, even if it was their first series win in 18 years and this time 'round on our turf.
I didn't bother responding to allthe Botham dribble.I find it interesting that he is so confident, but then, its Botham.I highlighted in bold a few interesting if not laughable parts of your post Romeo because I find it quite interesting, and laughable.Personally regarding flogster/the south african, Ponting wouldn't give a f*ck.Whenever Botham writes it should be known as "Bothams banter".And he should be relegated to being a Crackers Keenan in inside football.Thats about where he stands in cricket these days.The fact that the Limeys take him seriously is a pretty "headshakingly" embarassing situation. :)
Because of his Headlingly exploits and him being one of the pommies rare great all-rounders, they bow in reverence to all his comments, no matter how bizarre.
Because of his Headlingly exploits and him being one of the pommies rare great all-rounders, they bow in reverence to all his comments, no matter how bizarre.
Botham has some impressive stats, make no mistake about that.For a bloke who was basically a slobby yob, he was a great cricketer.But he wasn't by any stretch the be all and end all, and the recent limey media talk about him as though cricket wise he was the second coming.And he wasn't.
Funnily enough, they originally hated him.See, Botham made his debut for England in the days of selection being all about wearing the right school tie.And he simply didn't.He was kinda like the guy who you hate at work, but you'll wear him cos' he does a good job.For years that was how the MCC saw Botham.It wasn't until for some unf*ckingfathomable reason, he stated his undying love for that pathetic country that they even started to acknowledge him.
Cooldude
15 Sep 2006, 16:08
The ****'s going through one of the essential Ashes events for the past 15 years: "Beefy Botham pre-Ashes talking **** session"
He always talks **** somewhere along these lines before the Ashes starts
He often got dominated by our batsmen when he came out here. You look at someone like Greg Chappell. I have footage of him treating him with disdain. He was inventive but was mainly successful when the pitch assisted him.
He's master of the trash talk though.
He often got dominated by our batsmen when he came out here. You look at someone like Greg Chappell. I have footage of him treating him with disdain. He was inventive but was mainly successful when the pitch assisted him.
Despite the crap that GS Chappell often copped for his "lean season", he gave it to most bowlers.He was often considered almost arrogant because of the natural ease that he disposed of "so called" world class bowlers.
He's master of the trash talk though.
He probably sits behind IM Chappell in this regard though.Difference is, unlike Fatso, and despite the fact he is actually quite short, Ian at least had the guts to do it to their face, and more than once.I don't want to pump up the South Africans, but hasn't it ever struck someone as odd that Englands toughest cricketers (mentally AND physically), were Tony Greig, Allan Lamb
If you send an idiot around the world on a boat he doesn't become an expert in circumnavigation, and just because Ian Botham has played Test cricket all around the world it doesn't make him a cricket expert
Gotta love the typical fat c*nts arrogance, even if it was their first series win in 18 years and this time 'round on our turf.
I didn't bother responding to allthe Botham dribble.I find it interesting that he is so confident, but then, its Botham.I highlighted in bold a few interesting if not laughable parts of your post Romeo because I find it quite interesting, and laughable.Personally regarding flogster/the south african, Ponting wouldn't give a f*ck.Whenever Botham writes it should be known as "Bothams banter".And he should be relegated to being a Crackers Keenan in inside football.Thats about where he stands in cricket these days.The fact that the Limeys take him seriously is a pretty "headshakingly" embarassing situation. :)
do we though? I just press mute when he commentates and listen to Aggers,
He probably sits behind IM Chappell in this regard though.Difference is, unlike Fatso, and despite the fact he is actually quite short, Ian at least had the guts to do it to their face, and more than once.
Yeah Ian Chapell is a great example of someone with more ticker than Botham, he especially showed it that time when he was mouthing off about England in a bar in Melbourne & Beefy offered him out & Chappell ran outside & got saved by a couple of plods driving past.
I don't want to pump up the South Africans, but hasn't it ever struck someone as odd that Englands toughest cricketers (mentally AND physically), were Tony Greig, Allan Lamb
I want give either of those two a prayer in a tear up with Flintoff.
swanfan
17 Sep 2006, 04:39
Is he bluffing, being an ******** or just likes his name in the press?
Beefy clains that Aussies are fearful Of England
Ian 'Beefy' Botham claims Australia will be wracked by fear at the prospect of facing England's pace attack in the Ashes.
The legendary all-rounder also believes England's decision to make Andrew Flintoff captain for the tour, rather than Andrew Strauss, will have sent shockwaves through the Australia squad.
England's outstanding fast bowling paved the way for Ashes glory last year, with Simon Jones, Matthew Hoggard, Steve Harmison and Flintoff proving destructive.
This time England will tour without Jones, whose knee injury sidelines him until next season, but the remainder of the attack remains intact, with Sajid Mahmood and James Anderson vying for the role of fourth seamer.
"I expect England to retain the Ashes this winter because our four-pronged pace attack will haunt Australia as much as they were unsettled in 2005," Botham told the Daily Mirror.
"I can't see how Australia's batsmen will be any better equipped to deal with Freddie Flintoff's fab four quick bowlers this time round."
Botham, 50, added: "For me, if Flintoff, Steve Harmison, Matthew Hoggard and Sajid Mahmood stay fit and hunt as a pack, the Ashes stay where they belong. Right here."
Botham argued that Australia "must slay the demons" of their Ashes defeat, but predicted that with Flintoff at the helm England would be daunting opponents.
"I notice Ricky Ponting was surprised by Flintoff's appointment as captain, which means the Aussies would have preferred to see Andrew Strauss get the job," said Botham.
"That's no reflection on Strauss, who did a terrific job against Pakistan this summer, but chairman of selectors David Graveney was right when he said the Aussies fear Freddie."
Too many blows to the head with a cricket bat can't be good. :D
Yeah Ian Chapell is a great example of someone with more ticker than Botham, he especially showed it that time when he was mouthing off about England in a bar in Melbourne & Beefy offered him out & Chappell ran outside & got saved by a couple of plods driving past.
Well given Chappell stands all of about 5 foot 7, thats probably Bothams go.But Botham has never been backward in coming forward about what a "man" he is.Unfortunately, two things bring that into question.Firstly what you mentioned is only half the story.It escalated when Botham was taunting Chappell during the next match, and Chappell threatened to smash his head in with the cricket bat.Didn't see Botham being too accomodating after that.Also the second thing would prove that Botham obviously picks his mark.I guess you either didn't know, or had forgotten that Botham made disparaging remarks about Merv Hughes when Hughes called the English team a pack of public school sissies.I notice he didn't front up to Hughes all that quick. Could it be that he forgave the big fella? Or could it be that he knew he might be in a bit of strife given Merv wasn't actually half his size, and rather fond of a stoush in his day? :confused: ;)
I want give either of those two a prayer in a tear up with Flintoff.
I don't think you've gotten the jist of what I was actually talking about.
Bennycoff
17 Sep 2006, 12:33
Couldn't be further from the truth. His guy is a knob.
red+black
17 Sep 2006, 14:04
Credit where it's due, England played exceptionally well just to be competitive, though I'm not sure I'll live long enough to ever see them dominate us.
As well as England played last year, we lost due to one act of utter stupidity and carelessness: McGrath got injured.
Order will be restored this Summer.
Credit where it's due, England played exceptionally well just to be competitive
England were primed for that series.The fact that they've been utter crap ever since proves this.And yes they have suffered injuries, but all that shows is that they also have no depth.Even though it was only a ODI, Australia took an experimental side to Malaysia and last night ripped apart India's top order.Stuart Clark gets introduced to international cricket, goes to South Africa and is almost the bowler of the series.That is what depth is.Not relying on having to bring back 36 year old unfit fast bowlers who are only a shadow of their former self, and with bad knees, or a donut like Ian Bell who is the modern day Alec Stewart.Burns against sub standard bowling attacks and can't handle moderately good ones.They're in strife.And as for Flintoff, each time I've seen him play on Australian pitches, he's been shocking.With bat and ball.And from an Australian perspective about last years ashes series, if anything was to come out of it apart the fact that they (finally) won one as they so often tell us, its that they STILL, can't handle Warne.
Blues_Man
17 Sep 2006, 14:55
Yeah Ian Chapell is a great example of someone with more ticker than Botham, he especially showed it that time when he was mouthing off about England in a bar in Melbourne & Beefy offered him out & Chappell ran outside & got saved by a couple of plods driving past.
I want give either of those two a prayer in a tear up with Flintoff.
Botham is just your typical big mouth pom ..all pyss and wind .
I just hope he is commentating when the poms get their arses handed to them by the Aussies this year ...he has a habit of practically crying
go_the_bombers
17 Sep 2006, 15:06
I wonder if he's coming over for the series
Botham is just your typical big mouth pom ..all pyss and wind .
He is, bujt thats not what his problem is.His problem is that he hates Australia, and he absolutely positively c.a.n.n.o.t stand the fact that we have torn their ass for so many years.The Aussies used to give it to Botham pretty severely when he came out here, and I guess the sh1t stuck.In the 1999 world cup, he had to admit Australia were the best side in the world but you could tell he was livid about having to say it.Mainly because he amplified it in a split second by saying "they won't always be though, they won't always be".I can't wear poms and ********s like him are the main reason why.He's not your typical loud mouth pom, he's your typical arrogant pom with a chip on the shoulder about the fact that for 20 years, the "convicts" have bitchslapped them time and time again.
I guess you either didn't know, or had forgotten that Botham made disparaging remarks about Merv Hughes when Hughes called the English team a pack of public school sissies.I notice he didn't front up to Hughes all that quick. Could it be that he forgave the big fella? Or could it be that he knew he might be in a bit of strife given Merv wasn't actually half his size, and rather fond of a stoush in his day? :confused: ;)
Was the thing with Hughes a real full on falling out or was it a bit of tongue in cheek banter.
From my memory of Merv a lot of his bluster was a bit pantomime & pretty funny, for ages everyone thought him & Robin Smith hated one another but in reality there seemed a mutual respect there.
I remember Botham making a big score in 86/87, probably the ton at Brisbane & he'd smashed Merv around, the reporter said that did he remember facing Merv as a net bowler a few years before & Botham made some crack about Merv still being a net bowler.Got the impression it was just all that no holds banter.
Anyway you've got your views about Botham, personally I don't worship at his feet but I've always thought that he's a big fan of Australia & Australians, maybe you don't get that stuff over there, maybe you just the get the provocative comments but I've seen him talk many times about his respect & affection for you lot & admiration for the winning culture that you have.I've read his book where he says much the same & his friendship with Lillee is utterly genuine & enduring.
There's a bunch of ex-aussie cricketers who like to put the knife into the England, there's far fewer that do it the other way.I think Botham's utterances are as much to fight back against that lot.Particularly Ian Chappell who can't let go of his contempt for England at any point.
If he really hated Australia that much why was he always the first one to either go into their dressing room or invite a few of them into England's to share a few beers after a day's play?Read about him doing it a lot in 82/83 (when we were losing, so can't say that he was just matey when things went our way), some of the blokes like Norman Cowans didn't like Rodney Marsh & the like coming in after they'd been sledging him mercilessly on the park but Botham let's all that go at the end of play & engages in what you lot would call mateship.
He used to throw a big drink up BBQ for both teams on the Saturday night of the Headingly Test as well.If he couldn't stand aussies as you say then surely he wouldn't want to have anything to do with them.
As for Ian Chappell he's the biggest c*** in cricket, & whatever other stuff you add to that tale the bottom line is that Botham was ready to go & Chappell didn't fancy it, he may be smaller but a true tough guy wouldn't let that be a problem.
Was the thing with Hughes a real full on falling out or was it a bit of tongue in cheek banter.
It wasn't banter.Hughes was an easy guy to get along with, but he ridiculed the "tea and scones aspect of English cricket like most Australians right or wrong.
From my memory of Merv a lot of his bluster was a bit pantomime & pretty funny, for ages everyone thought him & Robin Smith hated one another but in reality there seemed a mutual respect there.
Like most other Australian cricketers, they were often gobsmacked when they'd roll up in England and often the sporting tabloids would be running some condescending article about the Australian team and more often than not it was after they'd caned the poms and obviously Hughes like the rest of them thought it was often uncalled for.So he retaliated.When he did that, Botham responded and it was pretty vindictive, and Hughes said "Lets just say I hope we cross paths soon".Hughes was a play up, but when he got riled, you knew about it and would want to be 1000 miles away.Dean Jones found out first hand.
I remember Botham making a big score in 86/87, probably the ton at Brisbane & he'd smashed Merv around, the reporter said that did he remember facing Merv as a net bowler a few years before & Botham made some crack about Merv still being a net bowler.Got the impression it was just all that no holds banter.
Actually the score in 86/87 was a ODI where he made a quickfire 70 odd but the majority of the bowling he was facing was Simon Davis which would be akin to facing Martin McCague.I don't recall Hughes playing in that match.But thats not to say he didn't, but I don't recall him playing.
Anyway you've got your views about Botham, personally I don't worship at his feet but I've always thought that he's a big fan of Australia & Australians, maybe you don't get that stuff over there, maybe you just the get the provocative comments but I've seen him talk many times about his respect & affection for you lot & admiration for the winning culture that you have.I've read his book where he says much the same & his friendship with Lillee is utterly genuine & enduring.
When Botham started playing cricket, it was the whole era before the mid eighties where you had the likes of Lillee, G.Chappell, Thomson, Marsh, Walters, Pascoe, Hookes, Walker etc, and they probably put a lot of people off side because they were violent and aggressive, and I'm sure it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.It also took cricket miles away from the English polite gentlemans aspect.My point about Botham is I don't think he likes the fact that Australia dominate.But on the other hand you could be right because last year they finally won an ashes series after almost two decades and he had his chance to gloat and didn't.But I just don't like the mannerisms of the man, which is fair, everytime we go to your country we're hearing the same things about Warne and it almost appears to be forgotten that he is the worlds leading wicket taker and the greatest leg spinner of all time.
There's a bunch of ex-aussie cricketers who like to put the knife into the England, there's far fewer that do it the other way.I think Botham's utterances are as much to fight back against that lot.Particularly Ian Chappell who can't let go of his contempt for England at any point.
Ian Chappell has no respect for England whatsoever.His great comment was the best thing about English cricket is that they invented the game.A lot of it stems from the fact that he thinks they do everything arse about.You also have to understand that Chappell is a left wing radical, which goes against every pommy conservative constitution.So it was never going to work out any other way than it did.But he's not gutless.There are a lot of cricketers around the world who would argue with that, most of which would be living comfortable lives nowadays because of the way he stood up to the establishment and forced others to do so by saying if you keep paying us crap, we aint playing.
As for the others, well again, they were a pretty volatile side in those days and a lot of them regarded the English as poofs, or little school girls.
If he really hated Australia that much why was he always the first one to either go into their dressing room or invite a few of them into England's to share a few beers after a day's play?Read about him doing it a lot in 82/83 (when we were losing, so can't say that he was just matey when things went our way), some of the blokes like Norman Cowans didn't like Rodney Marsh & the like coming in after they'd been sledging him mercilessly on the park but Botham let's all that go at the end of play & engages in what you lot would call mateship.
Well that still happens today.Australia were attacked mercilessly when they returned after the series last year for being too matey matey with the opposition.And Hughes came out and said this series that isn't on.Whether it will be or not who knows.You've got blokes like Hayden and Flintoff and Warne and Pietersen who are also friends away from the field so I can't see how it will be all that different, but I think a lot of the powers that be in the ACB were pretty annoyed that the Aussies didn't apply the "gamesmanship" enough.
He used to throw a big drink up BBQ for both teams on the Saturday night of the Headingly Test as well.If he couldn't stand aussies as you say then surely he wouldn't want to have anything to do with them.
I'm going by remarks I've heard from him about Australia that appear condescending.Let me say, its no skin off anyones nose one way or the other, but that is the impression I've always had.I'm sure he did enjoy the company of most of the opposition, as you said he and Lille and Jeff Thomson were good mates.
As for Ian Chappell he's the biggest c*** in cricket,Well you're from England, his sworn enemy, so you would think that & whatever other stuff you add to that tale the bottom line is that Botham was ready to go & Chappell didn't fancy it, he may be smaller but a true tough guy wouldn't let that be a problem.
I think you're confusing tough guy with guts.Chappell was 5'7".Chappell had guts, still does.You could put Botham and Chappell in a room right now, and he'd still make his derogatory remarks about England as he did in the ashes series out here in 1998/99.
Cooldude
20 Sep 2006, 23:08
I'd agree that Ian Chappell's a ****...
Thanks for the response Mark, it was actually pretty interesting, you're much better when you're not in full pommy bashing mode.:)
The thign with Botham that I guess is the most annoying is the way he seems to say that Aussie are there for the taking before very Ashes series, which obviously goes way into the ridiculous at times, especially some of those series in the 90s.
But I don't think there's anyone from over here who says anything with the aim of being so blatantly offensive as Chappell, to me the bloke adds little to the debate when he's so clearly unable to show a basic level of respect.I'd be interested to know if he has struck up any friendships with England cricketers of his day.
One last thing Botham did make a century at Brisbane in 86 in the 1st Test.
Botham 138, Hughes 3/134 off 35.
So he obviously took a bit of punishment.....I remember it as it was Botham's last Test ton.:D
Great England team that.....2nd worst team in the world beating the worst, happy days.
In his autobiography, he speaks quite glowingly about Australians at times.
He is, bujt thats not what his problem is.His problem is that he hates Australia, and he absolutely positively c.a.n.n.o.t stand the fact that we have torn their ass for so many years.The Aussies used to give it to Botham pretty severely when he came out here, and I guess the sh1t stuck.In the 1999 world cup, he had to admit Australia were the best side in the world but you could tell he was livid about having to say it.Mainly because he amplified it in a split second by saying "they won't always be though, they won't always be".I can't wear poms and ********s like him are the main reason why.He's not your typical loud mouth pom, he's your typical arrogant pom with a chip on the shoulder about the fact that for 20 years, the "convicts" have bitchslapped them time and time again.
How can one person hate another country so much .I keep telling you their is no need to be jealous of England Aus is a lovely country and can stand in its own right .Remember throw off that yoke of an inferiority complex and step out into the wonderful country you have .
By the way anyone with any sense knows how much Botham loves Australia and the Australians attitude he has said it so many times .Sadly because he was succesful especially against Aus some people have stupid prejudices against him
Weigh that against a similar character in Warne who is pretty universally liked in England unless he is playing us at the time .
Funny that mark -73
But I don't think there's anyone from over here who says anything with the aim of being so blatantly offensive as Chappell, to me the bloke adds little to the debate when he's so clearly unable to show a basic level of respect.I'd be interested to know if he has struck up any friendships with England cricketers of his day.
He has always talked positively about John Snow.Apart from that I couldn't say.I think Chappell got along with England pretty well until the "Headingley incident" in 1973 when Massie and Lillee were kicking arse, and all of a sudden the Headingley pitch was "mysteriously" infected with some fungus and took every blade of grass off it, yet every other blade of grass on the field was intact perfectly..At that stage it became a spinners paradise and England rushed back Underwood who hadn't played until then, and I think it was pretty clear to Chappell that they'd been duped.I think thats when he started to lose whatever respect for the English cricket team and its hierachy that he ever had.
I think the disdain for England came along in that same series also, when your media dubbed it the worst Australian side ever, and when they went on to square the series, particular after they felt they'd been cheated at Headingley, his opinion was sort of well we'll beat you pricks under any conditions.Also, the pommy m,edia doesn't help by giving him ammunition.To say that side was the worst ever from these shores, was now as we all know, a pretty imbecilic thing to say when you consider the guys in it that went on to become stars of the game.And I don't think he has ever allowed them to live that down either.I don't know how much you follow AFL, but some years ago there was a Collingwood player called Aaron James who Dermott Brereton said would be the next Wayne Carey.It was that type of idiocy.
How can one person hate another country so much .I keep telling you their is no need to be jealous of England Aus is a lovely country and can stand in its own right .Remember throw off that yoke of an inferiority complex and step out into the wonderful country you have .
What is this inferiority complex you keep blabbing about? I'm afraid you have exaggerated thoughts, about our thoughts, towards your country.It only gets thought of at ashes series time or cricket in general.As a country to live in there is no comparison, so no inferiority complex there.Cricket is our only talking point when it comes to England, and if we want to talk inferiority complex, who is it that keeps talking down the Australian players and continually ignoring their achievements? You along with other pommy supporters here, continually try to highlight Australia's short comings, and do it regularly.You've jumped out of the woodwork after one ashes victory.You have to retain them too, you've done nothing as yet.That, is an inferiority complex if I ever saw one.
By the way anyone with any sense knows how much Botham loves Australia and the Australians attitude he has said it so many times .You don't actually know what I'm talking about, so theres no point going into it further with you.Sadly because he was succesful especially against Aus some people have stupid prejudices against him As far as England cricketers go, he had success against everyone, I've already stated he could play cricket, in this thread even.Did you miss that?
Weigh that against a similar character in Warne who is pretty universally liked in England unless he is playing us at the time .
Maybe its just the "Australian" in me, but I've always found Warne to be easy to get along with.The fact that Botham is respected, more so than liked, and obviously there would be the odd acception to the rule, is my point.
Funny that mark -73
Yes I guess it is.
SnowyCasanova
21 Sep 2006, 13:58
wat i dont understand is how they can be so confident after beating us 2-1 in ONE series ??
wat i dont understand is how they can be so confident after beating us 2-1 in ONE series ??
I'm not so sure that everyone here is that confident, most of the media seems fairly doubtful.
I know that I am.
The only thing that might rub you up a bit is the way that most of the media seem to sing the tune that if Vaughan & Jones were fit & Flintoff was 100% then we'd be favourites.I'd be a lot more confident myself if that were the case but I reckon I'd still make us less than a 50/50 chance to win the series.
Also although we only won 2-1 would you agree that the series as a whole wasn't a case of us sneaking it by the odd Test but that actually we were a bit more dominant overall than that?
He has always talked positively about John Snow.Apart from that I couldn't say.I think Chappell got along with England pretty well until the "Headingley incident" in 1973 when Massie and Lillee were kicking arse, and all of a sudden the Headingley pitch was "mysteriously" infected with some fungus and took every blade of grass off it, yet every other blade of grass on the field was intact perfectly..At that stage it became a spinners paradise and England rushed back Underwood who hadn't played until then, and I think it was pretty clear to Chappell that they'd been duped.I think thats when he started to lose whatever respect for the English cricket team and its hierachy that he ever had.
I think the disdain for England came along in that same series also, when your media dubbed it the worst Australian side ever, and when they went on to square the series, particular after they felt they'd been cheated at Headingley, his opinion was sort of well we'll beat you pricks under any conditions.Also, the pommy m,edia doesn't help by giving him ammunition.To say that side was the worst ever from these shores, was now as we all know, a pretty imbecilic thing to say when you consider the guys in it that went on to become stars of the game.And I don't think he has ever allowed them to live that down either.I don't know how much you follow AFL, but some years ago there was a Collingwood player called Aaron James who Dermott Brereton said would be the next Wayne Carey.It was that type of idiocy.
Yeah it was fusarium and the Aussies were determined to win at the Oval to stick it up them. Both Chappells made tons in the first dig and in doing so set the record partnership for brothers. That series was when they also lost respect for Boycott who pulled up stumps after the second test at Lord's when he fell to Lillee and Massie ran amok.
He has always talked positively about John Snow.
He probably had a bit of respect for Snow smashing Terry Jenner on the noggin & then going & standing right by the fence on the Hill when they were all going off rather than taking his normal position a bit in from the boundary.
Apart from that I couldn't say.I think Chappell got along with England pretty well until the "Headingley incident" in 1973 when Massie and Lillee were kicking arse, and all of a sudden the Headingley pitch was "mysteriously" infected with some fungus and took every blade of grass off it, yet every other blade of grass on the field was intact perfectly..At that stage it became a spinners paradise and England rushed back Underwood who hadn't played until then, and I think it was pretty clear to Chappell that they'd been duped.I think thats when he started to lose whatever respect for the English cricket team and its hierachy that he ever had.
I wonder if his resentment of that would be more to do with the hypocracy of those pompus estabilishment types who would decry Australian overt aggression, sledging & overall bad sportsmanship etc but would then pull something like that, rather than the act itself.
I've always been able to see how the snooty, Oxbridge educated elite who've run English cricket for most of it's history would be like a red rag to a bull to a lot of Australians such as Chappell, as it is incidentally to many of us as well.But I reckon it's an image that is still perpetrated in people's minds to hang something on us even though it doesn't really exist anymore.
My view is that in many ways England can never win in the minds of a lot of Aussie fans & maybe that's how is should be but when we roll over every series we're mocked a gutless joke when up the aggression & stand toe to toe then we're accused of being bad sportsmen for things like not going over & seeing how Ponting is after he's been hit on the head.
The funny thing is when we lose all the time after every series there's a mocking for how bad we are & how we haven't held the Ashes for 10...12....15...18 years, should we lose this time the mocking in our ears will be how we got above ourselves after one series win & what a joke we are for believing that we could hold onto them.It's a no winner & we should just accept it.:)
Kim Chambers
21 Sep 2006, 18:33
Yeah it was fusarium and the Aussies were determined to win at the Oval to stick it up them. Both Chappells made tons in the first dig and in doing so set the record partnership for brothers. That series was when they also lost respect for Boycott who pulled up stumps after the second test at Lord's when he fell to Lillee and Massie ran amok.Boycott cops a lot of criticism, mostly for being a wife basher, but I don't buy into it all that much.The story was that part of the reason he never toured in 74/75 was because he was frightened of Lillee and Thomson.I think more of it had to do with the fact that he hated Mike Denness' guts and refused to play under him.Boycott is from Yorkshire, and for that I doubt he was actually "frightened", just couldn't accept having to play under what was a sub standard cricketer, and captain in Denness.
He probably had a bit of respect for Snow smashing Terry Jenner on the noggin & then going & standing right by the fence on the Hill when they were all going off rather than taking his normal position a bit in from the boundary.
No it was just because Snow was a good competitor.I know the situation you are talking about, but that is where I think there is a misunderstanding about Chappell.His bowlers used to dish it out a fair bit, but Chappell had time for Snow because he gave his all.It was quite clear by the time the eighties rolled around and they had teams coming out here in the summer wanting a drink every five minutes and whinging about the Australian tactics that the John Snows of this world had all but gone.People think the Aussies love Darren Gough because he seems like a "top bloke" and would often involve himself in the drinkathons.That is actually a misnomer and quite a big one.People out here respected Gough for the same reason they respected Snow.Whatever the situation, he gave everything he had.And lets face it, there were many times because of the roof he often carried over his toolshed that most of us thought Gough woulkd have a heart attack any second given the sometimes heat they would be playing in, but it didn't stop him finishing a days play the way he started it, and thats how all Aussies approach cricket, and any sport.That is what they respect.Despite what some sectors of England may want to believe, its not about how many crown lagers you can down after a game.If it was, we'd never win a test match.
I wonder if his resentment of that would be more to do with the hypocracy of those pompus estabilishment types who would decry Australian overt aggression, sledging & overall bad sportsmanship etc but would then pull something like that, rather than the act itself.
Exactly.To him, it was a gutless act.And in all honesty it was.To this day, Australia never dock their pitches.Perth and Brisbane always give pace and bounce, Melbourne a bit of everything, Sydney a spinners wicket, and Bellerive and Adelaide even.If we can do it, why should we adhere to the arrogant Indian notion of specifically setting up pitches to hinder the opposition.If you can't win without cheating, f*ck off.
I've always been able to see how the snooty, Oxbridge educated elite who've run English cricket for most of it's history would be like a red rag to a bull to a lot of Australians such as Chappell, as it is incidentally to many of us as well.But I reckon it's an image that is still perpetrated in people's minds to hang something on us even though it doesn't really exist anymore.
Probably, but unfortunately shi1t sticks.Much the same here with us being bullies and what not.Australian team play hard.The opposition can always do the same.Nobody is holding a gun to their head saying they can't.
My view is that in many ways England can never win in the minds of a lot of Aussie fans & maybe that's how is should be but when we roll over every series we're mocked a gutless joke when up the aggression & stand toe to toe then we're accused of being bad sportsmen for things like not going over & seeing how Ponting is after he's been hit on the head.
They can win by shutting up the smartarsing, gloating over one series win, ashes victory "parades" sorry but that was a p1sser, and just putting their heads down, arses up and fighting fire with fire.If you want respect from the Australian cricket team, you have to match them over the same amount of time.That doesn't mean that your team won't be respected until you retain the ashes for two decades, it means if they are super competitive that respect will come.In regards to Ponting, I don't think he would have lost a seconds sleep about it and if he did, ity would have only been momentarily.With the amount of heads and cuts the likes of Lillee, Thomson, Pascoe, McDermott, Lee, McGrath, even Reiffel have caused over the years, I doubt there would be too many complaints.BUT...there is a but, don't come whinging when the barrage goes the other way. :)