Your Opinion On Jollys Choice Of Seeing His Child Be Born

[Jimmy Gwilt]

what would u do in this situation

[duncan]

what would u do in this situation

Play the game - and I`m sure all involved would understand.

[Dr AlfAndrews]

How does he know it's his anyway?

[Jimmy Gwilt]

How does he know it's his anyway?


LMAO - Good Point:eek:

[celtic_pride]

If he doesn't play in the GF, he is an coward in my book and I hope his teammates never speak to him again, esp if the Swans lose.
I mean you can see your bloody kid everyday for the rest of your life, whereas how many chances to you get to be a premiership player.
How would the old Bloods stalwarts like Bob Skilton who bleed for the club, yet only played in one final.
Also his wife is a very selfish woman from the sounds of it ...

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,20465943%255E19742,00.html

Just give the lady some drugs so the birth can be delayed or brought forward IMO.

[Xtreme]

Have her give birth in the players rooms OR on the interchange bench, so when he's rotated on and off the ground he can get a first hand update on the birth :D


I'd choose playing, you could make the trek back to the hospital after the game.

[duncan]

If he doesn't play in the GF, he is an coward in my book and I hope his teammates never speak to him again, esp if the Swans lose.
I mean you can see your bloody kid everyday for the rest of your life, whereas how many chances to you get to be a premiership player.
How would the old Bloods stalwarts like Bob Skilton who bleed for the club, yet only played in one final.
Also his wife is a very selfish woman from the sounds of it ...

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,20465943%255E19742,00.html

Just give the lady some drugs so the birth can be delayed or brought forward IMO.

Settle down. She`s not due for three weeks so it`s highly unlikely that it`s going to happen.

As for his wife being selfish - where did that come from. Sheesh.

[celtic_pride]

Settle down. She`s not due for three weeks so it`s highly unlikely that it`s going to happen.

As for his wife being selfish - where did that come from. Sheesh.

Well she said that wanted him to be there, and from I read women who are knocked up in her family give birth 2 weeks early from the due date.
As far as I'm concerned, on Grand Final day, the footy club and the game is more important then matters like this.
I mean he is going to see his kid for the rest of life, and how many more chances does Jolly have to play in a GF ?
I mean it took the Swans over 70 years to win a flag.
If he misses the GF to attend the birth, He should be sacked from the Club IMO.

[Bellablaise]

FFS! Which is more important, your child or playing football??

If he wants to be there for the birth of his baby, good on him. I'd like to know how the hell that makes him a coward!

[Bellablaise]

I mean he is going to see his kid for the rest of life, and how many more chances does Jolly have to play in a GF ?

You're a damn fool. How many chances of seeing his child be born is he going to have? He's already played in one GF, and he's played footy every bloody week for years.

I hope you don't have kids, you wouldn't deserve them.

[JUBJUB]

Will Sydney put out an S.O.S for 'Torture/Unco' if Jolly doesn't play.Surely they can't rely on 'Donkey' do to all the ruck work.

[raikkonen]

Fancy 'planning it' around the time of GF week/s? :confused:

[celtic_pride]

FFS! Which is more important, your child or playing football??

If he wants to be there for the birth of his baby, good on him. I'd like to know how the hell that makes him a coward!

Because he is making the gutless, easy, politcally correct decision to miss one of the most important games in the club's history for an freaking birth. there is plenty of time to watch the little sprog grow up etc.
The Sydney FC pay the bloke his wages, and his teammates bust their guts out week in, week out to play for the club.
I find the notion that he will miss an GF because his dear ol wife needs support at the birth offensive, and that makes him mentally weak IMO.
IF he misses the GF and the Swans lose, esp due to Cox's influence on the game, if I were one of Jolly's teammates, I would treat him with contempt and make sure that Jolly is no longer welcome at the club.
It's AN GRAND FINAL, not a bloody home and away game, or even a regular final.
The club has basically paid his way into having a good lifestyle and his wages so he can have a house to raise his family, and for him to turn his back on them at their hour of need, well I find that disgraceful treatment not only to the blokes who play his wages, but his teammates and fans etc.
So what if his wife can't cope with the birth if Jolly is not there ? His teammates need him far more then the missus on that day.

[-WWJD-]

I'm a chick and I would want my husband to play, but I don't think Jolly should be dragged over hot coals for choosing his family.

[celtic_pride]

You're a damn fool. How many chances of seeing his child be born is he going to have? He's already played in one GF, and he's played footy every bloody week for years.

I hope you don't have kids, you wouldn't deserve them.

What a load of rot, he has plenty of time to have more kids later on.
Also he can tape the birth and watch it later, but he is more obliged to the club on Grand Final day.
I would rather play and win in a GF then have a kid anyway. That is a more special moment IMO. Fact is, the world is overpopulated as it is, and how many people have kids compared to how many players are premiership winners ???
Fact is Sydney are berefit of Ruckman so it is crucial that Jolly plays.

[Jimmy Gwilt]

What a load of rot, he has plenty of time to have more kids later on.
Also he can tape the birth and watch it later, but he is more obliged to the club on Grand Final day.
I would rather play and win in a GF then have a kid anyway. That is a more special moment IMO. Fact is, the world is overpopulated as it is, and how many people have kids compared to how many players are premiership winners ???
Fact is Sydney are berefit of Ruckman so it is crucial that Jolly plays.


would u rather let down 1 person his wife or 30 000 people as in the swans fans - someone said hes played footy all his life?? so what he can just have more kids - he shouldnt think twice about playing in a gf and hes chose the other option - its hes decision but its the wrong one

[Lukesta63]

Celtic I've generally respected your posts ,but your replies today are nothing short of bizzare.I know this sounds mushy but as someone who has lost a kid to SIDS,the birth of your kid is comparable to nothing else in your life.
IMO opinion he is playing it smart bowing to the wife's wishes because she eventually might cave in and give her blessings to him and tell him to play.
You obviously don't have kids so I can understand that you can't see a parents' perspective.
I'd go to the birth,I'm the one sacrificing the glory,how does that make me a coward,tell me???

[fearlessone77]

T....

[f00ty-1S-L!fe]

say if jolley actually did miss the game, do you think they would bring in another ruckman? if so, then who? erickson? shaw?

[natlovestheswans]

Like i've said before on the Swans board i would be pretty upset if he decided to see the birth of his child instead of playing. I'm 17 years old and i wouldn't have a clue if my father was at my birth.. it doesn't matter to me either way. I think he'll regret missing the game so much more like 10 years down the track. His kid would probably be pretty disappointed if his father missed the game and potentially cost the Swans the premiership because he didn't want to miss their birth. I know i would.

[natlovestheswans]

say if jolley actually did miss the game, do you think they would bring in another ruckman? if so, then who? erickson? shaw?

No they wouldn't. LRT and Adam Goodes would help Doyle with the ruck, mainly LRT. Paul Bevan or Luke Vogels would be bought back into the team.

[duncan]

Like i've said before on the Swans board i would be pretty upset if he decided to see the birth of his child instead of playing. I'm 17 years old and i wouldn't have a clue if my father was at my birth.. it doesn't matter to me either way. I think he'll regret missing the game so much more like 10 years down the track. His kid would probably be pretty disappointed if his father missed the game and potentially cost the Swans the premiership because he didn't want to miss their birth. I know i would.

You might change your position when it`s your turn. My brother has 3 kids. Was there for each birth. Best moment of his life apparently.

[Bellablaise]

would u rather let down 1 person his wife or 30 000 people as in the swans fans - someone said hes played footy all his life?? so what he can just have more kids - he shouldnt think twice about playing in a gf and hes chose the other option - its hes decision but its the wrong one

Jesus. Let's see. The person he's married to and is in love with, or thirty thousand strangers. Real tough choice. :rolleyes:

Just have more kids? FFS. Having a child is the biggest thing that can ever happen to you. People who don't realise that shouldn't be parents anyway.

As for you, Celtic, I'd say it's just as well you don't want kids.

[DaveMorro]

Id respect him either way
A few months ago i would of said play footy but after recently being there for the birth of my little guy i couldnt imagine how id feel if i didnt have that experience.

Football is just a job, no matter how crazy we all are about it.

[Dandy_GO]

FFS! Which is more important, your child or playing football??

If he wants to be there for the birth of his baby, good on him. I'd like to know how the hell that makes him a coward!

Spot on :thumbsu:

[Proud_Pies_Feral]

Well childbirth is a thing that you dont witness too often especally if its your first to be honest I don't know what I would choose.

[worthy]

The birth of my first child was one of the most amazing experiences of my life, and if you haven't experienced it, it would be easy to dismiss it and say play the game, either way it would not be an easy decision for him to make, some of the comments in this thread have wreaked of immaturity.

[mudgeathon]

Is it just me or is the word 'champion' used these days?

SWANS champion Darren Jolly is ready to pass up the chance to play in Saturday's AFL Grand Final -- so he can witness his first child's birth.

I know it says 'Swans Champion', but still shouldn't that be reserved for the elite of the club?

Anyway back on the topic, doesn't bother me what he wants to do.

[celtic_pride]

Celtic I've generally respected your posts ,but your replies today are nothing short of bizzare.I know this sounds mushy but as someone who has lost a kid to SIDS,the birth of your kid is comparable to nothing else in your life.
IMO opinion he is playing it smart bowing to the wife's wishes because she eventually might cave in and give her blessings to him and tell him to play.
You obviously don't have kids so I can understand that you can't see a parents' perspective.
I'd go to the birth,I'm the one sacrificing the glory,how does that make me a coward,tell me???

Look mate, I'm very sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine the pain that you and your partner went though. I only hope that SIDS cases are very, very rare because I can't think of anything worse in life then losing a child, esp when he or she is an infant.
You are right, I have no kids myself (and to be fair, I don't really want any for a few more years yet) so I don't know personally the pressure that is on Jolly and his wife and I'll admit I was wrong in calling him a coward.
I have always felt that only missing a GF through personal reasons is acceptable for a death in a family or if there is something seriously ill with a child or partner/parent.
Perhaps I am a bit critical because I was inspired watching Jarrad Waite play the day after his father (who was a champion of the club) pass away. That to me showed the character of the young man, and I think that is why he'll play his whole career at Carlton (despite some fans wanting to trade him, which is something I'll never undersand)
Also I do remember the devestation of John Longmire after he watched his Roos win the 1996 GF, so him winning the medal in the 99 GF is about the only thing I enjoyed about the 99 Grand Final.
As I said, I don't have children myself, but seeing as so many other past champions who never got to play in a premiership, or the devestation of players like Jason Cloke or Phil Carmen who missed GF's through suspension, I guess that I found it hard to believe that a player would miss a GF willingly to attend a child's birth.
BTW a lot of female callers on 3AW this arvo agreed with me and Caro's opinions that Jolly should play in the GF ahead of the birth.

[jerry springer]

Storm in a teacup board

[worthy]

BTW a lot of female callers on 3AW this arvo agreed with me and Caro's opinions that Jolly should play in the GF ahead of the birth.

In the end it really doesn't matter what other people think, to a young unattached player, footy may be the most important thing in their lives, to other players starting a family, it may be family and the birth of their children, it's an individual choice, and one that wouldn't be made easily.

[Jeremias]

Family ALWAYS comes before footy.

ALWAYS!

And I pity all those who suggest otherwise.

[Lukesta63]

Celtic I wasn't fishing for sympathy , just pointing out that I was looking at the question very heavily "biased" perspective.
I understand your view but I'll bet you'll think back differently if you have a child!!!

[Power21]

Well she said that wanted him to be there, and from I read women who are knocked up in her family give birth 2 weeks early from the due date.
As far as I'm concerned, on Grand Final day, the footy club and the game is more important then matters like this.
I mean he is going to see his kid for the rest of life, and how many more chances does Jolly have to play in a GF ?
I mean it took the Swans over 70 years to win a flag.
If he misses the GF to attend the birth, He should be sacked from the Club IMO.

Settle down you tool.

[celtic_pride]

Family ALWAYS comes before footy.

ALWAYS!

And I pity all those who suggest otherwise.

The reason why it is so important and pivotal these days is that basically Jolly is just about Sydney's only ruckman and I do not believe that the Swans can win the flag without him.
The Swans need him to play if they want to win back to back flags. Also the game only goes for like 3 / 4 hours at the most, and in the off chance that his wife goes into labor on the same day, how long do they last ???
They go for a miminum of 12 hours so I doubt that Jolly playing in the GF is going to be as bad for his wife as the Swans missing their ruckman in the GF, esp against Dean Cox.

[DynamoUltra]

This is exactly why footballers should not have sex between Christmas and Jan 7. The risk is too great.

[Cassius_Clay]

He'd be a selfish fool if he didnt play. Letting down 21 of his players and letting down the whole football club. He's their most important player and Sydney wont win it without him.

[celtic_pride]

Celtic I wasn't fishing for sympathy , just pointing out that I was looking at the question very heavily "biased" perspective.
I understand your view but I'll bet you'll think back differently if you have a child!!!

Fair enough, but most women I've listened to today on the radio think that he should play in the GF and not be obliged for his wife.
I probably was wrong to call for him to be sacked if he didn't play, but if I was his teammate and/or fan of the Swan, I would be very irked if he didn't play.
It would be a waste of a season if he played every / most of the games throughout the year only to pull out for an hypothetical situation that his wife will give birth on the same day.
If I was in the same situation, I would play in the GF without a shadow of a doubt.
The club pays him a very healthy salary to help them win a flag, so I reckon he owes the club, and his teammates and his fans to play on the big day. Anyway the odds are unlikely that his wife will give birth on the same day anyway (well I hope so anyway)
Whe I think about it logically (And take the emotional aspect out of it) the swans need him more on the day then his wife IMO (unless there was something going wrong with the pregancy obviously)

[Jeremias]

The reason why it is so important and pivotal these days is that basically Jolly is just about Sydney's only ruckman and I do not believe that the Swans can win the flag without him.
The Swans need him to play if they want to win back to back flags. Also the game only goes for like 3 / 4 hours at the most, and in the off chance that his wife goes into labor on the same day, how long do they last ???
They go for a miminum of 12 hours so I doubt that Jolly playing in the GF is going to be as bad for his wife as the Swans missing their ruckman in the GF, esp against Dean Cox.

And what if, god forbid, the baby is stillborn? I wonder whether Jolly will think he has made the right decision then? Of course he won't, he WILL regret it. Family is the most important, far more important than a premiership.

[Jeremias]

He'd be a selfish fool if he didnt play. Letting down 21 of his players and letting down the whole football club. He's their most important player and Sydney wont win it without him.

He'd be a selfish fool? Are you kidding? is wife needs him, and if he goes to play, he will have let his wife down. I am sure that he would prefer to see his baby born safe and healthy than win a premiership. How can you say that by putting family first he is selfish? That's one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

[Cassius_Clay]

And what if, god forbid, the baby is stillborn? I wonder whether Jolly will think he has made the right decision then? Of course he won't, he WILL regret it. Family is the most important, far more important than a premiership.
Well what happens if Jolly goes for the birth and the Swans lose by a point with Cox getting 45 touches and 4 goals? Of course he'll regret it.

[Jeremias]

Well what happens if Jolly goes for the birth and the Swans lose by a point with Cox getting 45 touches and 4 goals? Of course he'll regret it.

Sure he will be disappointed. But I know that he will be more disappointed if his baby is born lifeless. He will get over the missed premiership. But a dead child he will never recover from.

This is a no brainer. You are saying footy over family. Family is way more important.

[skipper kelly]

Well what happens if Jolly goes for the birth and the Swans lose by a point with Cox getting 45 touches and 4 goals? Of course he'll regret it.

Nah. If some of the Swans fans have their way he will be sacked. Then he can make room for spider, go into the PSD and probably get picked up by St.Kilda.

[celtic_pride]

And what if, god forbid, the baby is stillborn? I wonder whether Jolly will think he has made the right decision then? Of course he won't, he WILL regret it. Family is the most important, far more important than a premiership.

How could/would the tragic scenrio of a baby being stillborn be Jolly's fault anyway if he wasn't there ?
Also as I said, it does appear very unlikely that the baby will be born on the same day as the Grand Final, and even if it does, Jolly would still have ample time to play in the GF and then go straight to the hospital afterwards (he can forefit the medal presentation if the Swans win)
Also if she has other family members around with her to comfort her, then she should be okay.
The Swans cannot afford to lose Jolly on GF day.

[bunsen burner]

Has to play. If I was the coach and he didn't play and the Swans lost I'd almost sack him, ie the only thing that would stop me would be the backlash.

He has 21 other team mates to consider here. Does that mean they are more important than his wife and child? No. Is it be all end all if he misses the birth? No. Is it be all end all if he misses the GF? Well it is for those other 21 players.

There's only a few things a man should miss the birth of his child for and unfortunately this is one of them.

[da_ilks]

Jesus... a lot of people take footy pretty seriously. It's his decision at the end of the day. If I was him... I'd rather attend the birth of my child. It's only a game of footy.

Would you blokes care if he wasn't such an important part of Sydney's team structure? Nah, didn't think so. Stop been selfish :)

[de_LICA_ish18]

I would like to see him play as GF's don't come along very often and he could be back at the hospital fairly quickly afterwards if it were to happen (It won't). He has a whole lifetime to bond with the child.

But you do have to respect a man that puts his family ahead of a dream. I think for that he should be applauded.

[bunsen burner]

Jesus... a lot of people take footy pretty seriously. Including 21 of his team mates.

It's his decision at the end of the day. No one's disputing that.


It's only a game of footy.Stupid and ignorant comment.

It's not just a game of footy. It's the grand final. Many players Spend their whole career trying to get one (a flag). It is the holy grail of football.

Miss the grand final you may never have a chance. Miss the birth of your child and you still get to enjoy it for the rest of your life. Missing your child's birth is not to be taken lightly but please go and get yourself some perspective. I'd say 95% of players would choose to play the game. It's not hard to work out why.

[bunsen burner]

But you do have to respect a man that puts his family ahead of a dream. I think for that he should be applauded.There's one prblem with this: there's 21 other people who lose out.

[skipper kelly]

Jesus... a lot of people take footy pretty seriously. It's his decision at the end of the day. If I was him... I'd rather attend the birth of my child. It's only a game of footy.

Would you blokes care if he wasn't such an important part of Sydney's team structure? Nah, didn't think so. Stop been selfish :)

Agree. The birth of your child far outweighs the importance of a game of football.

[bunsen burner]

Agree. The birth of your child far outweighs the importance of a game of football.It's not just a game of football. It's a life long goal for most players and part of a pact you have with your team mates. Of course there is a pact with your partner, but both have to be considered.

I went to the birth of my two chldren and to date the only thing I think I'd miss it for is if was an AFL player and a GF came along. Given my meagre existence I couldn't imagine missing it for anything, but at the same time I never think about those births. Those particular days don't hold any specific special memories. my relationship with my children isn't tangible and isn't something you can measure by being at the birth or not.

[skipper kelly]

It's not just a game of football. It's a life long goal for most players and part of a pact you have with your team mates. Of course there is a pact with your partner, but both have to be considered.

I went to the birth of my two chldren and to date the only thing I think I'd miss it for is if was an AFL player and a GF came along. Given my meagre existence I couldn't imagine missing it for anything, but at the same time I never think about those births. Those particular days don't hold any specific special memories. my relationship with my children isn't tangible and isn't something you can measure by being at the birth or not.

I agree with the last part. There is more to being a parent than just being at their birth. Having said that I wouldnt miss it for anything. Now I am not in a position to compare that to playing in a GF in the AFL because it is something I never did and obviously never will. I have been involved in many sports though and in one case put many many hours per week into admin, coaching and playing. My choice in this instance would have been easy and any team mates that didnt accept that, well that would be their issue.

I feel that many supporters believe they have some kind of ownership over AFL players and how they run their lives. The bloke could be delisted in 2 or 3 years and non of these supporters will bat an eyelid. Family before a Grand Final would be a brave decision, but one that he has every right to make.

From a personal POV of course I want him to play. Him being at his childs birth will have no impact on my life whatsoever. Him not playing in the GF will have a minor impact on my life. But in the end if the unfortunate thing happens and he has to choose then I believe it is soley his choice and I for one will certainly not be calling for him to be sacked.

[bresker]

I went to my daughter's birth.

While she was pushing the baby out my wife crapped herself. It smelled like catsh*t.

Trying to make a joke out of the situation, I asked her, "Phew! Have you been necking cat food?"

She didn't see the funny side.

I advise Jolly to go to the grand final.

[Hard Ball Get]

Any other game I would be at the birth.
Granny I would play.

[bunsen burner]

I know if I was a team mate I'd be well f***** off. I also know my partner would urge me to play considering it'd be a life long goal.

[Jeremias]

I know if I was a team mate I'd be well f***** off. I also know my partner would urge me to play considering it'd be a life long goal.

Whereas having children and building a family isn't? :rolleyes:

[bunsen burner]

Whereas having children and building a family isn't? :rolleyes:No.

But even if it was, it's not as simple as saying "family is more important than footy therefore on every occasion I must choose family". That's a stupid way of think that's very common with selfish women.

Here's the two sides of the argument:

GF
Your life long goal is to win a flag. The pinnacle of Australian Rules is to win a premiership medallion. They're hard to come across and you may never get another chance. Many players would trade a lot just to get their hands on one. It is the holy grail for a footballer.

You're also playing with 21 other guys whom you have travelled the path with. They all have a burning desire to win a medallion. It is a pact.

What if you miss it? The time is now. You may never get another chance. You may never achieve your life long career goal.

Birth
Your family is the most important thing in your life. Going to a birth is about personal pleasure, support for partner, and possible memories. It's a big moment.

But what if you miss it? You still get to see your kid a lot for the rest of it's life. You still achieve your personal goal.


Summary
Having a family is a life long journey. Missing one day (albeit important) is only a small part of the whole experience. But you still get the result. Winning a premiership medallion might come down to that one day. It's a very large part of the whole experience (maybe the whole thing if it's the only crack you get).

And that is the difference. To say it's as simple as "family comes first" is just ignorance. If you weigh all that up and still think the birth is the go, then good for you.

[bresker]

Of course Jolly would rather go to the Grand Final.

He's just worried that every time he and his partner have an argument from this moment on, she will come out with the killer line,

"But you chose football over our child's birth!"

There's no comeback to that line.

[garth p]

FFS! Which is more important, your child or playing football??

If he wants to be there for the birth of his baby, good on him. I'd like to know how the hell that makes him a coward!


I'm with you. Anyway takes more courage to stand upright and conscious in a labour ward and delivery room than it does to run out onto a football field.:D

[bunsen burner]

What I can't work out is if your the partner of an AFL player you know how hard they train, how big a deal the big day is, and that it may be the only opportunity. It's most players' lifelong dream that can only be achieved on that particular day.

So I'm miffed as to why someone would expect their partner to give up their lifelong dream for one day that is a very small portion of parenthood? I know my partner would almost force me to play the match.

[skipper kelly]

What I can't work out is if your the partner of an AFL player you know how hard they train, how big a deal the big day is, and that it may be the only opportunity. It's most players' lifelong dream that can only be achieved on that particular day.

So I'm miffed as to why someone would expect their partner to give up their lifelong dream for one day that is a very small portion of parenthood? I know my partner would almost force me to play the match.

I dont think she is forcing him.

[gandaal]

Why would you even make this an issue. Jolly is a fool. Why doesn't he do what every other footballer/sportsman has done for the last 10-20 years? Have the child induced a couple of days before, grow a brain and get on with his job.

[bunsen burner]

I dont think she is forcing him.That was generic rather than about Jolly. Was going to mention it but forgot.

[skipper kelly]

That was generic rather than about Jolly. Was going to mention it but forgot.


My missus would tell me to play also.

[bunsen burner]

Why would you even make this an issue. Jolly is a fool. Why doesn't he do what every other footballer/sportsman has done for the last 10-20 years? Have the child induced a couple of days before, grow a brain and get on with his job.Don't think it's that simple. It's due in 3 weeks, will be 2 weeks due come Saturday. His partner has a family history of prem births of usually 2 weeks. Don't know if doctors would induce 2.5 weeks prem? Can anyone clarify this?

[skipper kelly]

Don't think it's that simple. It's due in 3 weeks, will be 2 weeks due come Saturday. His partner has a family history of prem births of usually 2 weeks. Don't know if doctors would induce 2.5 weeks prem? Can anyone clarify this?

I dont think a doctor would induce so as not to miss a footy game, unless of course it was Dr. Edelstein.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Not an easy choice. I have one child and I was there for her birth. At the time it was the most amazing, emotional experience. 10 years on and we are closer than ever, in fact I bring her up by myself and she is my best friend. However, I can only remember small details of her birth now. Some of the feeling, the weighing, the first feed. Getting up in the middle of the night to take a tired toddler to the toilet. The event itself has lost some of its lustre but has been replaced by thousands of other memories. First day of school, millions of kisses and cuddles, conversations, school plays, managing her soccer team ... and the list goes on. I can have a rewarding moment with her many many times per day for the rest of my life. I'm not sure Jolly will be able to say that about football.

I think I would play. It's your actions for years after the birth that matter the most. He will be there to lend support to his wife, the baby will come, they will do tests, and he will be sent home elated but also with an eye on what is happening with the footy.

How does he gauge when the baby is coming anyway? She could be in labour for 36 hours. He will have regrets if he is sitting in the maternity ward for hours after the GF has been played, especially if the Swans go down narrowly and get killed in the ruck.

What terrible timing. Clubs actually councel players about pregnancy planning these days.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Don't think it's that simple. It's due in 3 weeks, will be 2 weeks due come Saturday. His partner has a family history of prem births of usually 2 weeks. Don't know if doctors would induce 2.5 weeks prem? Can anyone clarify this?Yes, my daughter was induced. Had a lot of problems during the pregnancy trying to figure out exactly how many weeks she was. They kept changing it. In the end, they figured she was due and her fluid was getting low so they decided to induce. There has to be a medical reason, usually when there are complications or the baby is 'overcooked' so to speak.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The old saying ... 'when the moment comes, you define the moment or the moment defines you.'

Jolly is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't potentially.

A thought ... a wife can be taken away, a child can be taken away, personal accomplishments that last forever can not be taken away.

Another thought .... missing the birth will not lead to a broken marriage if he is a decent bloke thereafter. Missing the grand final may lead to resentment which may lead to a broken marriage if he holds any regrets. Being at a birth is symbolic of your love, playing in a GF is physical. Symbolism vs realism?

You can argue this one until the cows come home I reckon.

[Dry Rot]

Of course Jolly would rather go to the Grand Final.

He's just worried that every time he and his partner have an argument from this moment on, she will come out with the killer line,

"But you chose football over our child's birth!"

There's no comeback to that line.

Yes there is.

"I chose to give you this nice house and comfortable lifestyle that you so enjoy that we wouldn't have had otherwise."

Footballers get paid sums a multiple they could expect to earn as ordinary citizens. In return, it's not unreasonable to expect that they make sacrifices like other highly paid individuals in responsible postions.

[philhawk]

Footballers get paid sums a multiple they could expect to earn as ordinary citizens. In return, it's not unreasonable to expect that they make sacrifices like other highly paid individuals in responsible postions.

Would you take leave of your wife at a time where she needs you most? It's a damn noble decision by Jolly and I approve of it 100%.

A Grand Final is 1 day in your entire life. It isn't as if Jolly hasn't won a GF either. His first childs birth though is a far greater occasion then any sporting day.

At the end of the day, it's just a sport ...

[da_ilks]

Miss the grand final you may never have a chance. Miss the birth of your child and you still get to enjoy it for the rest of your life. Missing your child's birth is not to be taken lightly but please go and get yourself some perspective. I'd say 95% of players would choose to play the game. It's not hard to work out why.

lol at perspective. If you think a football game is a greater reward then witnessing the birth of your child then that's your choice; me, I'd pick family first. You're not going to convince me otherwise, nor do I expect to change your opinion.

However, if he chooses to witness the birth, I hope some people keep perspective, instead of asking for sackings, calling him a coward, deserting his team mates etc.

Also, no one has addressed my other point - If Jolly wasn't such a vital cog for Sydney, would everyone be so upset about it?

[Dry Rot]

Just broadening the argument, one group of people who I really despise are women in really serious jobs who complain that their workplaces are not "family friendly".

Classic case is really serious law firms. They pay a motza and carry the cachet of working there. Good luck to them.

But in return for a fabulous salary, they don't expect you to **** off and pick up your kid at 3.00pm. And more importantly, when you do, some poor bastard has to cover for you.

Ditto Jolly.

He's paid far more than whatever he could earn otherwise, and works in a team environment where if he ****s off to his childbirth he puts enormous pressure on his co-workers and basically buggers what his annual salary was paid for.

If attends the childbirth on GF day, he should pay back his 2006 salary and get de-listed.

[Dry Rot]

Would you take leave of your wife at a time where she needs you most? .

I'm sorry, I didn't realise it was Dr Jolly and he was delivering the baby.

[Dry Rot]

lol at perspective. If you think a football game is a greater reward then witnessing the birth of your child then that's your choice; me, I'd pick family first.

Forget the reward of the GF to Jolly - what is he paid amazing to do?

I have no problem if he repays his salary.

Also, no one has addressed my other point - If Jolly wasn't such a vital cog for Sydney, would everyone be so upset about it?

Yes, the principle counts.

[kleos]

Dont get me wrong, but he has already won 1 premiership, it's not that it would not be awesome to win two.

But at the end of the day as much as i love football, it's is still just a sport and a living (be it a very good one).

So i see nothing wrong with it, as childbirth would be an amazing thing to see , specially seeing your first baby as it is born.

So i think Darren Jolly is right to make any choice, if that time comes.

Eitherway, he will be a winner, be it if he wins the premiership or when his child is born.

Anyone who calls him a coward is pretty off the mark.

I think it's actually quite the reverse.

Kleos

[Dry Rot]

But at the end of the day as much as i love football, it's is still just a sport and a living (be it a very good one).



What responsibilities go with receiving that?

Barring something odd, the lives of his wife (and baby to be) are not at risk.

[duncan]

Just out of curiosity - what are peoples thoughts on missing for funerals. Now I know for a fact that this happens in the regular season.

What about for a Granny.

[kleos]

Hey fair enough, but at the end of the day these players are only human, they like ourselves having emotions and feelings.

With Money comes Responsibility, but i dont think any amount of money comes above a persons emotions dude.

Kleos.

[TheBrownDog]

Its an extremely personal decision.

Consider this though... what if the unthinkable happened and his wife died while giving birth and he wasnt there with her because he was playing football.

Would kind of make the premiership cup a little meaningless to him.

Some people in this thread need to get some perspective.

[Dry Rot]

Hey fair enough, but at the end of the day these players are only human, they like ourselves having emotions and feelings.

With Money comes Responsibility, but i dont think any amount of money comes above a persons emotions dude.

Kleos.

Hope you enjoyed your typography there.

Maybe we are in agreement - put emotions first, go for the indulgence of missing the GF and Jolly can repay his salary.

PS I would take a differnet view if his wife was on her death bed.

[Dry Rot]

Its an extremely personal decision.

Consider this though... what if the unthinkable happened and his wife died while giving birth and he wasnt there with her because he was playing football.

Would kind of make the premiership cup a little meaningless to him.

Some people in this thread need to get some perspective.

What are the mortality rates with childbirth these days?

[philhawk]

What are the mortality rates with childbirth these days?

Complications never arise?

[kleos]

Hope you enjoyed your typography there.

Maybe we are in agreement - put emotions first, go for the indulgence of missing the GF and Jolly can repay his salary.

PS I would take a differnet view if his wife was on her death bed.

At the end of the day, nothing you say or i say will sway him either way.

Good luck to him though.

[Dry Rot]

Complications never arise?

No, but every day a lot of ordinary folk wish their loved ones all the best at hospital and then have to go to work while they have their op.

I have no problems with dads attending childbirth, and I have no problems with people earning high salaries which are many multiples of average weekly earnings.

But I know a few of the latter (I'm not one) and I know what sacrifices they make in their personal lives.

I suppose my point is that you can't have your cake and eat it.

My view would be different if his wife was dying.

[Rozza44]

This thread proves why there are so many bad fathers these days

[section8]

Funerals more important than births. So indicative of humanity's relative contempt for life in this world.

I applaud Jolly's decision.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

This thread proves why there are so many bad fathers these daysAbsolute rubbish. I think he should play and I raise my daughter as a single father and no child has more of a bond with their father as my daughter does I assure you. She is my everything and how we interact day to day means a hell of a lot more than the fact I was in the hospital room when she was born.

Silly silly assumption on your part.

[bresker]

I attended the birth and I'm a crap father.

[bunsen burner]

A Grand Final is 1 day in your entire life.Time wise yes, but occasion wise no.


At the end of the day, it's just a sport ...
It's much more than that. For most people it is a life long dream that is hard to come by and can't be rescheduled. Stop playing it down.

I racked my brain for other situations where i'd miss a birth and I can't think of one since most other things can be postponed or missed etc. There's not many occasions where a life long goal can only be achieved on one specific day and if not taken missed forever. That is the difference. Please don't insult peoples' (as well as your own) intelligence by calling it "just a sport" or "just a game of footy".

[bunsen burner]

lol at perspective. If you think a football game is a greater reward then witnessing the birth of your child then that's your choice; me, I'd pick family first. You're not going to convince me otherwise, nor do I expect to change your opinion.That's a simple perspective. Do you have kids?

However, if he chooses to witness the birth, I hope some people keep perspective, instead of asking for sackings, calling him a coward, deserting his team mates etc.A person who misses a GF because of a birth is letting down his mates more than he's letting down his partner.

Also, no one has addressed my other point - If Jolly wasn't such a vital cog for Sydney, would everyone be so upset about it?More or less the same. Although Jolly's the centre of attention here it's pretty much a generic topic. Could apply to any player. But of course, the more vital a cog, the bigger the let down.

ps I wouldn't be bothered if he didn't play as I don't think the Swans would win without him.http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[bunsen burner]

Just out of curiosity - what are peoples thoughts on missing for funerals. Now I know for a fact that this happens in the regular season.

What about for a Granny.Funerals are pretty much a nonsense from my point of view. I generally don't go to them and my only excuse is "they're f***ed".

[Fred]

There are 2 scenarios but 1 outcome.

1) If the wife wants you at the birth then be there or you've given them a lifetimes supply of ammunition against you.
2) If she says it's your choice and she won't mind, don't believe a word of it and refer to 1)

[rick James]

My opinion is as follows:

The birth of a child is a disgusting thing to see - they make the father wear gumboots becasue of all the fluids that are discharged, many men find it hard to ever sleep with that woman again following seeing a child come out of her.

On the other hand, football is tops.

His child won't remember being born anyway, so play the GF and save yourself from being grossed out imo.

[music_2000]

Would dearly love to see him play but you're asking him to choose between his family and the game. yes it is a grand final but think about it, how much $$$ will he lose from not playing in this years GF? would anyone in any other career be willing to lose money to see the birth of their child, for eg would a sales manager be willing to miss the chance to gain a multi million dollar account because of a birth in the family?

[Dry Rot]

Would dearly love to see him play but you're asking him to choose between his family and the game.

He has no problem choosing to take the money (ie his annual salary, not just his pay for a GF) and setting up his family for life, has he?


for eg would a sales manager be willing to miss the chance to gain a multi million dollar account because of a birth in the family?

If his employer expected him to win the account and the sales manager wanted to continue to have his work car, subsidised loans, a better house, high salary and other perks, then yes.

[bunsen burner]

Would dearly love to see him play but you're asking him to choose between his family and the game. yes it is a grand final but think about it, how much $$$ will he lose from not playing in this years GF? would anyone in any other career be willing to lose money to see the birth of their child, for eg would a sales manager be willing to miss the chance to gain a multi million dollar account because of a birth in the family?You just don't get it. Why are you comparing this to a job? And what has it got to do with money?

To go to a birth you have to completely sacrifice everything you play for and there's no getting it back.

To play in the grand final you are sacrificing a very small part of fatherhood.

You can have happy families for ever after but you'll never get that premiership medallion.

[Mozza1972]

I think hes pretty clever, missus isnt due for a week or two later and think of the points hes racking up ,..I have kids and your 1st is pretty spinny but 22 mates that are playing for something that big makes it a tough one. glad Ill never have to make that decision, family all the way for me....

[Financialpanther]

I think it is important for Jolly to assist the wife in the occasion - I believe that they go through a lot to bring children into the world and it is something that the men should help them through (if they are around). Don't forget that its not all about being there to witness the moment, but to be there for the partner.

A person who misses a GF because of a birth is letting down his mates more than he's letting down his partner.

He has to live with his partner for the rest of his life - he is only effectively living with his team mates for another couple of years.

[bunsen burner]

He has to live with his partner for the rest of his life - he is only effectively living with his team mates for another couple of years.You don't seem to be able to take into the account the different weight of each issue. They're not the same.