Thornton May Leave Blues for Hawthorn - The Age - "$150,000 a season" !?!

[OZBomb]

Stephen Rielly
September 28, 2006

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/09/27/1159337221831.html

CARLTON full-back Bret Thornton might have played his last game for the Blues, with the 22-year-old understood to have privately indicated that he is prepared to move to Hawthorn.

Thornton flew out of Melbourne on Tuesday, destined for Thailand with a group of Carlton teammates, but did so after leaving behind a power of attorney with his manager, Anthony McConville, and an impression with several people close to him that a switch is more likely than not.

If Thornton leaves for Hawthorn, it will not be the only bad news the club will have received this week.

The AFL Commission voted on Monday to reject Carlton's request for the reinstatement of the 2002 priority pick that was taken from the club as part of its penalty for systematic salary cap breaches during the 1990s. The commission also learnt of the conclusions former St Kilda chief executive Jim Watts reached after his league-sanctioned investigation of Carlton's operations.

It is understood the report was highly critical of several administrative and board practices and the recent ground naming-rights deal with MC Labour.

The only bright note was Eddie Betts' agreement this week to a new two-year contract.

After several months of fruitless negotiating over a new contract, Thornton was left with a choice between a two-year Carlton offer comprising a guaranteed sum of $150,000 a season, and an earning capacity of up to $240,000 next year and $260,000 in 2008, or a three-year deal from the Hawks worth almost $300,000 a season.

His departure would not only be a significant loss to the Blues on the field but amount to a symbolically important blow given that the club is rebuilding and looking to a youth-led recovery.

Thornton has been a regular senior player almost from the time he stepped into the side in 2002. The 193-centimetre defender played all 22 games this year for a total of 91 in five seasons and finished seventh in the recent best-and-fairest count.

McConville would not comment yesterday other than to restate the fact that Carlton and his client were yet to reach any agreement on a new deal. "The ball is in Carlton's court, as it has been for some time," McConville said.

The Hawks are believed to be keen to trade for Thornton, something the Blues might be compelled to do given that they will not want to give up their chance to secure an uncontracted player by using their first pick in the pre-season draft on reclaiming a player who does not want to play for them.

[OZBomb]

Does the board not realise that losing Thornton completely wastes about 4 years of work that's been done.

You can't even blame him for not signing, $150,000 guarenteed is a joke... actually the board is a joke.

[SimmoiISaGUN6]

I am more confident than ever after reading that bs story that he will stay a blue apparently all carlton and essendon players sign the power of attorny slips when they arnt in town during trade week and i think tbird is trying to get more cash out of us FAIR ENOUGH to if we are to tight to match it then he should walk anyways its not as if they can get him for free soo we cant really be held to ransom .BLOODY HAWK ****ERS STAY AWAY FROM OUR PLAYERS

[DIG]

It'd be the final straw for the board if we lose Thornton over $$.

Stephen Reilly seems to be on a mission vs Blues these days, hopefully most of it proves to be BS.

Some key points from the article:


IF the $$ quoted are true, what on earth are the board thinking, and why is Thornton so undervalued by the club - surely he's in our top 10-12.
The fact he's travelling with his Blue teammates means he's surely not out the door just yet.
Great news to hear Eddie Betts has re-signed for 2 years, though i can't find any confirmation of this elsewhere yet.
What's next for our extra priority pick hopes, all over or will we take legal action now?

[Funkalicous]

Losing Thornton over money issues would be ridiculous. Money shouldn't even be an issue as far as our salary cap is concerned. The board are just trying to cut corners.

I can't blame Thornton for doing what he's doing. Like his manager said, the ball's in Carlton court. Eventually they'll approach Bret with a respectable contract one hopes.

How much more damage can this board do? :(

[RiteBak@Ya]

What a bloody joke if this is true.

The guy is worth a 3 year contract at about $250K a year. We have no ready made backs to take him up and it would take 3 years to develop one.

You have to pay what players are worth to have any hope of survival. This would crush us.

What the hell are our board thinking. This makes me sick.

[Effes]

And we re-sign Kouta on $300K :rolleyes:

[Gibbsrightboot]

This shows that we need to vote out Smorgon and most of the board come the December elections.

We are going downhill under this guy, losing thornton now, the message this will send to the young kids is very distressing

[thylacine60]

It'd be the final straw for the board if we lose Thornton over $$.

Stephen Reilly seems to be on a mission vs Blues these days, hopefully most of it proves to be BS.

Some key points from the article:

IF the $$ quoted are true, what on earth are the board thinking, and why is Thornton so undervalued by the club - surely he's in our top 10-12.
The fact he's travelling with his Blue teammates means he's surely not out the door just yet.
Great news to hear Eddie Betts has re-signed for 2 years, though i can't find any confirmation of this elsewhere yet.
What's next for our extra priority pick hopes, all over or will we take legal action now?

2002 PP claim got knocked on the head by AFL on Monday. All over.

[Bluebear]

And we re-sign Kouta on $300K :rolleyes:

Is that on a hot key or do you re-type it every time?:p

For what its worth, I believe the club is waiting to see what is on offer for a number of our players, possibly looking to trade up for 1st round picks.
When we don't get them we will re-sign a number of players for their actual value.
$150,000 base plus some performance incentive up to $240,000 is interesting, if he perfroms he will get what he is worth. I can't see how the Hawks could afford him at $300K a year.....sound like manager speak to me. Doesn't leave them much room for some of their new young stars to anti-up in the next couple of years.

Either way he will re-sign or we will get a great booty for him (?1st round pick, maybe 3 way deal for Polak? and a 2nd round pick).
Don't fret bluebaggers.

[sticks74]

Is that on a hot key or do you re-type it every time?:p

For what its worth, I believe the club is waiting to see what is on offer for a number of our players, possibly looking to trade up for 1st round picks.
When we don't get them we will re-sign a number of players for their actual value.
$150,000 base plus some performance incentive up to $240,000 is interesting, if he perfroms he will get what he is worth. I can't see how the Hawks could afford him at $300K a year.....sound like manager speak to me. Doesn't leave them much room for some of their new young stars to anti-up in the next couple of years.

Either way he will re-sign or we will get a great booty for him (?1st round pick, maybe 3 way deal for Polak? and a 2nd round pick).
Don't fret bluebaggers.

Spot on Bluebear... We will take Pick #6 for him thats for sure...

[Effes]

Very unlikely they'd give up pick 6

[LukeHodge15]

Very unlikely they'd give up pick 6

Not a chance in hell that we would give up pick 6 for thornton.

KP Defender dont grow on trees, IF that media report is correct on what carlton offered thornton, thats a joke :eek: But we all know the media never lie when they are reporting a good story.

[blue_gun]

[quote=DIG]It'd be the final straw for the board if we lose Thornton over $$.

Stephen Reilly seems to be on a mission vs Blues these days, hopefully most of it proves to be BS.

Some key points from the article:

IF the $$ quoted are true, what on earth are the board thinking, and why is Thornton so undervalued by the club - surely he's in our top 10-12.
The fact he's travelling with his Blue teammates means he's surely not out the door just yet.
Great news to hear Eddie Betts has re-signed for 2 years, though i can't find any confirmation of this elsewhere yet.
What's next for our extra priority pick hopes, all over or will we take legal action now?
i believe we should take legal action as we have the right to a first round priority pick as we have one less then 10 games in t he last 2 years.

[blues4flag]

We have got to get him signed up and soon. If true, this board is a rabble, 150,000 is a joke. If they want to give him an incentive based contract, than give him a base value of atleast 200,000, with a possible 250-275,000 if he performs. If its over 2 years, than its pathetic, he is more than worthy of a three year contract given his age and performances to date.

[celtic_pride]

Mercenary ...
I'm sick of the days of player's holding clubs to ransom.
Shouldn't Thornton owe the club for all the faith that it showed in him ?
I don't think it's the board's fault this time, frankly this is a act of greed and selfishness by Thornton if he leaves for more money.
How many ordinary joe bloggs out there earn over $200 K a year anyway ???
Frankly if we back down now and accede to his demands, then that would set a dangerous precedent amongst the other young players.
I support the board on this issue, they have to draw a line in the sand and say we are not going to pay over the top dollar for a player who isn't worth it (Market value would indicated that there is no way in hell Thornton is worth 300 K a season)
I don't care if we don't a key backmen for the next few years anyway, it's not as if we're going to be finals contenders.

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I wish I earned $150,000 a season

[LukeHodge15]

Mercenary ...
I'm sick of the days of player's holding clubs to ransom.
Shouldn't Thornton owe the club for all the faith that it showed in him ?
I don't think it's the board's fault this time, frankly this is a act of greed and selfishness by Thornton if he leaves for more money.
How many ordinary joe bloggs out there earn over $200 K a year anyway ???
Frankly if we back down now and accede to his demands, then that would set a dangerous precedent amongst the other young players.
I support the board on this issue, they have to draw a line in the sand and say we are not going to pay over the top dollar for a player who isn't worth it (Market value would indicated that there is no way in hell Thornton is worth 300 K a season)
I don't care if we don't a key backmen for the next few years anyway, it's not as if we're going to be finals contenders.

I reckon Thornton would have to be worth around the 300k mark on market value easy.

KP Defender are GEMS in the afl these days.

[celtic_pride]

I reckon Thornton would have to be worth around the 300k mark on market value easy.

KP Defender are GEMS in the afl these days.

Well that maybe so, but that just proves to me that footballers are an overpaid lot these days.
Also the club has an MASSIVE DEBT and is really earning around $260 Ka year that bad a pay cut from $300.
Also we got into trouble in the past for overpaying players their market value, hence the salary cap trouble etc.
I mean if Kouta can swallow his pride and only accept a $200 K offer next year, why can't Thornton just accept the fact that he has to make an financial sacrifce for the next couple of years (besides if he did accept an pay cut, I'm sure a player's sponsor would help him out)
I mean if we acceed to Thornton this time, what happens when Marc Murphy and Josh Kennedy etc come out of contract ???
No the club has to take a stand here,and as much as I dislike Smorgon and the current board, I support them in this issue 110 percent.

[Effes]

Add $100K to Kouta's

[SA Blue]

Add $100K to Kouta's

What is your probem with Kouta? Every thread, there you are bringing up his salary like it is an issue. Kouta has done more for this club than Thornton ever will, and has made more sacrifices than him. He is also worth more next year, especially given his unselfish attitude and leadership qualities.

Get over it.

[LukeHodge15]

Well that maybe so, but that just proves to me that footballers are an overpaid lot these days.
Also the club has an MASSIVE DEBT and is really earning around $260 Ka year that bad a pay cut from $300.
Also we got into trouble in the past for overpaying players their market value, hence the salary cap trouble etc.
I mean if Kouta can swallow his pride and only accept a $200 K offer next year, why can't Thornton just accept the fact that he has to make an financial sacrifce for the next couple of years (besides if he did accept an pay cut, I'm sure a player's sponsor would help him out)
I mean if we acceed to Thornton this time, what happens when Marc Murphy and Josh Kennedy etc come out of contract ???
No the club has to take a stand here,and as much as I dislike Smorgon and the current board, I support them in this issue 110 percent.

Lets say u earnt 100 k a year celtic. And ur emplyer came up to u and said, look we struggling at the minute with our cash flow and our debt.

"U wont have a problem dropping 15k off ur wage to help our company out."

When there is also a heap more emplyers out there that are prepared to pay u 120+ k a year.

Footy is now a business, and like i said be4, i dont begrudge the players getting every penny that they can outa the AFL footy careers.

[WTTF]

Add $100K to Kouta's

$235K he ended up signed for, not the $300K he actually wanted.

[Effes]

What is your probem with Kouta? Every thread, there you are bringing up his salary like it is an issue. Kouta has done more for this club than Thornton ever will, and has made more sacrifices than him. He is also worth more next year, especially given his unselfish attitude and leadership qualities.

Get over it.

The club can't get their priorities right.

[cschreuder61]

Most players wont leave if they get paid what they are worth. As Lukehodge15 said, footy is a business, you do have to worry about yourself, but the club does get taken into account.

I'm still unsure whether Thornton will go, I just can't see Carlton letting him slip (unless they want quality selections in a quality draft, and want to secure picks 1 and 2 next year?).

Anyhow, you have to get what you can while playing AFL to an extent, and Thornton is young and is improving so you'd expect his salary to start reflecting that from his current age onwards. Also a three year deal is a lot of security compared to 2 years.

I'd keep him, pay him, but it seems weird that you'd play cat and mouse with a player who appears so important to you guys from the outside.

[celtic_pride]

Lets say u earnt 100 k a year celtic. And ur emplyer came up to u and said, look we struggling at the minute with our cash flow and our debt.

"U wont have a problem dropping 15k off ur wage to help our company out."

When there is also a heap more emplyers out there that are prepared to pay u 120+ k a year.

Footy is now a business, and like i said be4, i dont begrudge the players getting every penny that they can outa the AFL footy careers.

The thing that concerns me greatly is if the club finally gives into Thonton and his manager's demands, what happens next when other young star out of contract players contracts come up ?
Sure, you have to award him for his services, but I fear is that managers will demand unreasonable pay demands for young players with a lot of potential that haven't proven themselves yet.
I mean how many B & F placing's has Thornton got, or any AA spots etc ???

The club basically cannot afford to spend beyond it's means at the moment, otherwise you won't have enough money under the cap to pay the other player's what they are worth IMHO.

[WTTF]

I'd keep him, pay him, but it seems weird that you'd play cat and mouse with a player who appears so important to you guys from the outside.

It's quite simple, the club is being run by a group of amateurs at the moment and it shows.

[jj1978]

The thing that concerns me greatly is if the club finally gives into Thonton and his manager's demands, what happens next when other young star out of contract players contracts come up ?
Sure, you have to award him for his services, but I fear is that managers will demand unreasonable pay demands for young players with a lot of potential that haven't proven themselves yet.
I mean how many B & F placing's has Thornton got, or any AA spots etc ???

The club basically cannot afford to spend beyond it's means at the moment, otherwise you won't have enough money under the cap to pay the other player's what they are worth IMHO.

Agree.... if any of the prices reported are true.. then we should shoot any player that allows their managers to leak info out to the media.

We should place in our contracts with players and managers to keep their mouths shut to media relating to financial arrangements and dealing come trade time.

[bluegal1983]

Mercenary ...
I'm sick of the days of player's holding clubs to ransom.
Shouldn't Thornton owe the club for all the faith that it showed in him ?
I don't think it's the board's fault this time, frankly this is a act of greed and selfishness by Thornton if he leaves for more money.
How many ordinary joe bloggs out there earn over $200 K a year anyway ???
Frankly if we back down now and accede to his demands, then that would set a dangerous precedent amongst the other young players.
I support the board on this issue, they have to draw a line in the sand and say we are not going to pay over the top dollar for a player who isn't worth it (Market value would indicated that there is no way in hell Thornton is worth 300 K a season)
I don't care if we don't a key backmen for the next few years anyway, it's not as if we're going to be finals contenders.

I agree with all points highlighted in bold. There is no way Thornton is worth $300K a year! What a joke!!!

I am also glad that they haven't backed down to his demands and hope that they don't because I can just imagine the precedent it will set for the other guys who are coming out of contract.

Stick to your guns Carlton because he isn't worth what he is asking for and if Hawthorn are prepared to pay him that much then good luck to them!

[BlueWorld]

$235K he ended up signed for, not the $300K he actually wanted.

And how would you know that?

[Effes]

BW,

What are your thoughts in regards to Thornton?

[FieryNayta]

Yo`DooR']I wish I earned $150,000 a season

You wouldnt if everyone around you doing the same job was earning at least 200+

we gotta respect our players or else they will all leave, and you cant blame them for wanting to.

If the club resembled a proffessional outfit then the players would be alot happier.

[jj1978]

So which newspaper is right here...

quote from an article in the Australian today..

Meanwhile, Carlton is confident of retaining its required players, including Brad Fisher and Bret Thornton, who are both out of contract.
Blues general manager of football operations Grant Williams said he expected the pair, and another 10 uncontracted players, to agree to terms in the near future.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20487155-36035,00.html

[celtic_pride]

You wouldnt if everyone around you doing the same job was earning at least 200+

we gotta respect our players or else they will all leave, and you cant blame them for wanting to.

If the club resembled a proffessional outfit then the players would be alot happier.

That is odd, I believe the club is offering a lot more thn 150 K a season. That figure was mis-represented and taken out of context.

[DIG]

So which newspaper is right here...

quote from an article in the Australian today..

Meanwhile, Carlton is confident of retaining its required players, including Brad Fisher and Bret Thornton, who are both out of contract.
Blues general manager of football operations Grant Williams said he expected the pair, and another 10 uncontracted players, to agree to terms in the near future.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20487155-36035,00.html
Easy - one paper's talking to Thornton's manager, the other's talking to the club.

[TheGeneral]

Thornton expected to stay at Carlton. (http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=300771)

[audas]

Right. SO people dont know what the hell is going on, as USUAL, and the same old people are calling for the board to be sacked.

Its same stuff week in week out. Its pathetic, really pathetic.

If colllingwood was having contract negotiation problems with one of their players would they be calling for their board to be sacked ?

Get a grip, its one article by someone who dosent know.

It really is sad the way people around here, and those such as Brown have behaved. Its like a pack of vultures, worse than Saints or Tigers ever were. PEople need to take the keys to the room of mirrors and have a good hard look at themselves.

[Andyt30]

Hands off blues offer him alot more put it right out of hawthorns Reach :D
thank goodness its not Collingwood defently stick the $ into a few Million ;)
hopefully the blues will match hawks Offer :)

[mediumsizered]

Easy - one paper's talking to Thornton's manager, the other's talking to the club.
I think The Age is finding it a little hard to get information from the club. Serves them right. They have done our club no favors, so why should the club do any favors in return. If you want to find out anything about the Carlton Football Club in the near future don't bother looking in The Age because all they can offer is speculation, rumours and regurgitation of old stories.

[elgranto]

I think The Age is finding it a little hard to get information from the club. Serves them right. They have done our club no favors, so why should the club do any favors in return. If you want to find out anything about the Carlton Football Club in the near future don't bother looking in The Age because all they can offer is speculation, rumours and regurgitation of old stories.

you mean with such amazing writers like caroline (mine is bigger than yours!) wilson and mr essendon??

[Bluebear]

Lets say u earnt 100 k a year celtic. And ur emplyer came up to u and said, look we struggling at the minute with our cash flow and our debt.

"U wont have a problem dropping 15k off ur wage to help our company out."

When there is also a heap more emplyers out there that are prepared to pay u 120+ k a year.

Footy is now a business, and like i said be4, i dont begrudge the players getting every penny that they can outa the AFL footy careers.

I take your point but there is one huge difference.
Most employees don't work because they want the company, and themselves at the same time, to be successful. Its nice if it happens and it means greater job security, but as long as they're getting paid, they wouldn'y really care.

Footy players play to win prenierships. They get paid a truck load to do it, but at the end of the day they are training their asses off, not for a pay rise, but to win a flag.

Slightly different motives.

These days with the salary caps the most successful clubs will be the ones whose players accept a slightly lower pay at their club instead of chasing big bucks. Fev should realise that by holding the club ransom last year he has in fact limited his chances of winning a premiership, because we won't be able to afford pay rises to retain emerging stars.
The quicker players realise this the better.
But I don't begrudge them getting whatever they can either......they just make it clear where there priorities are at.
As far as T-bird is concerned, I have heard nothing from him or the club - so as far as I'm concerned there is NO STORY, other than the weekly Carlton bashing (at least its come down to weekly now):)

[Bluebear]

Hey Effes, whats your take on Fevs wage, and Lappin's tantrum from last year?
You seem to be all over Kouta in threads that really don't concern him, so where are these guys on your hit list?

[bluegal1983]

Right. SO people dont know what the hell is going on, as USUAL, and the same old people are calling for the board to be sacked.

Its same stuff week in week out. Its pathetic, really pathetic.

If colllingwood was having contract negotiation problems with one of their players would they be calling for their board to be sacked ?

Get a grip, its one article by someone who dosent know.

It really is sad the way people around here, and those such as Brown have behaved. Its like a pack of vultures, worse than Saints or Tigers ever were. PEople need to take the keys to the room of mirrors and have a good hard look at themselves.

People who want the Board sacked are not just basing their view on uncontracted players not signing up. Sure it adds fuel to the fire and is definately a contributing factor but alot has happened in the past few weeks. The way the Board behaved with the whole Pagan debacle was deplorable and embarrassing. Hopefully the AGM will see a change and this proud club can work towards rebuilding and getting some respect back.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Well Fev has come out and said that T-Bird is being offered $1 million over 3 years compared to Carlton offering 440k over 2 years. $110k per year plus an extra year's security is pretty hard to turn down, especially considering it isn't much fun losing all the time. FWIW, T-Bird is kidding himself if he thinks he is worth that much and the Hawks are being a little irresponsible themselves. Why would you try and drive the Blues wages up, not as though we are a threat.

[2centsworth]

Well Fev has come out and said that T-Bird is being offered $1 million over 3 years compared to Carlton offering 440k over 2 years. $110k per year plus an extra year's security is pretty hard to turn down, especially considering it isn't much fun losing all the time. FWIW, T-Bird is kidding himself if he thinks he is worth that much and the Hawks are being a little irresponsible themselves. Why would you try and drive the Blues wages up, not as though we are a threat.

I heard fev as well. He also said that t-bird wants to stay but is waiting for Carltons next offer.
I agree with you on the value. I don't think he's worth more than $250k IMO.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Don't get me wrong, I would up the offer but it would still fall some 50k per season short of what they are offering. 280k would be my maximum and that is only because we should have cap room.

[shagger]

Right. SO people dont know what the hell is going on, as USUAL, and the same old people are calling for the board to be sacked.

Its same stuff week in week out. Its pathetic, really pathetic.

If colllingwood was having contract negotiation problems with one of their players would they be calling for their board to be sacked ?

Get a grip, its one article by someone who dosent know.

It really is sad the way people around here, and those such as Brown have behaved. Its like a pack of vultures, worse than Saints or Tigers ever were. PEople need to take the keys to the room of mirrors and have a good hard look at themselves.

Of course.
The fact that we have borrowed money from the AFL just to pay our bills is irrelevant.
Not to forget the fact that the AFL have sent a former ST KILDA administrator in to assess our club and he has bagged the crap out of us.
Or the fact that our players routinely conduct their negotiations through the media because our reactive buffoons in the board room fold like a deck of cards at any negative publicity.
And dont forget the fact that we have no assistant coaches, no conditioning staff to assist our numerous players who have had post season surgery.
Or how about the fiasco with Silvagni being offered the assistant job and then the club denying it. AFTER Silvagni had confirmed it!

Apart from those few aspects and about another dozen, everything is just dandy.
I'd suggest you visit the room of mirrors but I doubt you'd be able to find it.

Next.

[Effes]

Of course.
The fact that we have borrowed money from the AFL just to pay our bills is irrelevant.
Not to forget the fact that the AFL have sent a former ST KILDA administrator in to assess our club and he has bagged the crap out of us.
Or the fact that our players routinely conduct their negotiations through the media because our reactive buffoons in the board room fold like a deck of cards at any negative publicity.
And dont forget the fact that we have no assistant coaches, no conditioning staff to assist our numerous players who have had post season surgery.
Or how about the fiasco with Silvagni being offered the assistant job and then the club denying it. AFTER Silvagni had confirmed it!

Apart from those few aspects and about another dozen, everything is just dandy.
I'd suggest you visit the room of mirrors but I doubt you'd be able to find it.

Next.

:thumbsu::cool:

[SA Blue]

Of course.
The fact that we have borrowed money from the AFL just to pay our bills is irrelevant.
Not to forget the fact that the AFL have sent a former ST KILDA administrator in to assess our club and he has bagged the crap out of us.
Or the fact that our players routinely conduct their negotiations through the media because our reactive buffoons in the board room fold like a deck of cards at any negative publicity.
And dont forget the fact that we have no assistant coaches, no conditioning staff to assist our numerous players who have had post season surgery.
Or how about the fiasco with Silvagni being offered the assistant job and then the club denying it. AFTER Silvagni had confirmed it!

Apart from those few aspects and about another dozen, everything is just dandy.
I'd suggest you visit the room of mirrors but I doubt you'd be able to find it.

Next.

I really do not understand people like yourself and Effes who do nothing but bag the club at every opportunity and have nothing posittive to say.

Todays article was speculative crap and little factual basis, but it doesn't stop trolls and people like yourself, wetting yourself at the chance to stick the boot in.

Pathetic.

[rdhopkins2]

Thought I'd make a few comments in regards to this and see what you guys think in Blue land, (whether about your players or not)!

Can't help but thinking about the player/club relationship and how it works in relation to loyalty:-

Player A thinking of leaving club for more money and is seen as disloyal.
B wants to stay, accept a paycut and the like

Club C tells both their services are no longer required any time the club feels it is in its interests to get rid of them, that the club is bigger than the individual etc.

So given we know a club won't turn round and say hey we know you have been with us X yrs and been fantastic but still we want some young blood/someone wanting less $$/trade value and off you go, so why do players still cop so much stick.

It reminds me of the guy that works for Organisation X since he was 15, after 40yrs service the boss walks in and says thanks for your efforts, you have been fantastic, but head office has instructed we retrench you. How many ppl can honestly say that at the end of the day they think their org will take care of them rain, hail or shine?? Is footy any different?

Whilst I would love to see and encourage more loyalty in footy, at the end of the day a player is not going to be looked after by a club despite length of service and for doing the team thing. Who can blame the player that seeks to maximise earnings given that his career is always an uncertainty Ie injury, team formation etc.

Just my 2 cents and 1 p! What do you guys reckon?

Damned if you do, damned if you dont! You can never pls everybody! Yes I'd love to see loyalty in footy I really would, but how many clubs have had great players leave on bad terms after long periods of service. Too many!!

Yes the fans will always support the club. When a player leaves they are a villain, when they come to your club they inherit a hero status as opposed to the enemy status from when they played against us.

Football is business. In the end a business decision. So a players own career is their own personal business decision.

Would you take £15000 a year to work full time as an accountant or would you walk and take the £50000 on offer up the road??

No- who are you kidding! Yourself, your family, your boss?
Yes- Normal I would say!

[Bluebear]

Of course.
The fact that we have borrowed money from the AFL just to pay our bills is irrelevant.
Not to forget the fact that the AFL have sent a former ST KILDA administrator in to assess our club and he has bagged the crap out of us.
Or the fact that our players routinely conduct their negotiations through the media because our reactive buffoons in the board room fold like a deck of cards at any negative publicity.
And dont forget the fact that we have no assistant coaches, no conditioning staff to assist our numerous players who have had post season surgery.
Or how about the fiasco with Silvagni being offered the assistant job and then the club denying it. AFTER Silvagni had confirmed it!

Apart from those few aspects and about another dozen, everything is just dandy.
I'd suggest you visit the room of mirrors but I doubt you'd be able to find it.

Next.

See what happens when you get all steamed up, you come out and say something silly.......and of course Effes is up there cheering you on.....what a joke.

Firstly its the managers who are conducting themselves through the media, not the players........name me one player....ever....who has wanted his earnings splashed all over the press........joke.
As for folding like a pack of cards.............T-bird hasn't been re-signed, nor have a number of other players.
Campo left, Lappin nearly did too........fold my a$$.

Since when has Barry Mitchell re-singed, did I miss that........even if he did I wasn't aware of his, or any of the sacked staff's medical or physiotherapy degrees.
NONE of the m would have ANYTHING to do with those players recovering from surgery right now. Start pre-season and maybe you have a point, but right now.......your an absolute joke.

This is for you Effes :mad: :thumbsd: :( ;) :cool: , I know you prefer them to typing.

Oh, wait Kouta is overpaid.........yeah we heard ya.

[TheGeneral]

See what happens when you get all steamed up, you come out and say something silly.......and of course Effes is up there cheering you on.....what a joke.

Firstly its the managers who are conducting themselves through the media, not the players........name me one player....ever....who has wanted his earnings splashed all over the press........joke.
As for folding like a pack of cards.............T-bird hasn't been re-signed, nor have a number of other players.
Campo left, Lappin nearly did too........fold my a$$.

Since when has Barry Mitchell re-singed, did I miss that........even if he did I wasn't aware of his, or any of the sacked staff's medical or physiotherapy degrees.
NONE of the m would have ANYTHING to do with those players recovering from surgery right now. Start pre-season and maybe you have a point, but right now.......your an absolute joke.

This is for you Effes :mad: :thumbsd: :( ;) :cool: , I know you prefer them to typing.

Oh, wait Kouta is overpaid.........yeah we heard ya.
Um, the players are working for a new contract through their managers and they have to cop it sweet for doing this through the media.

If you were Polak, Laycock, etc. would you think twice about joining Carlton if we rewards our players this way?

The salary cap is going up next year by $500,000 for every club and half of Kouta's salary isn't even in the cap after his earnings came down from $1,000,000 last year.

So why can't we find the money for our best tall defender? :confused:

The Hawks will dump Everitt's contract so they will have a bit of money to splash around looking for uncontracted player and are doing the right thing.

It's what Carlton used to do when we weren't a joke.

[Bluebear]

Um, the players are working for a new contract through their managers and they have to cop it sweet for doing this through the media.

If you were Polak, Laycock, etc. would you think twice about joining Carlton if we rewards our players this way?

The salary cap is going up next year by $500,000 for every club and half of Kouta's salary isn't even in the cap after his earnings came down from $1,000,000 last year.

So why can't we find the money for our best tall defender? :confused:

The Hawks will dump Everitt's contract so they will have a bit of money to splash around looking for uncontracted player and are doing the right thing.

It's what Carlton used to do when we weren't a joke.

You're right, they do have to wear whatever their managers do on their behalf. I just hate the perceptionthat its the players themselves talking it up in the media. Makes T-bird sound like Aker or Everitt.

The second bold point here is - who says we haven't.
My question to you and every other poster on this site with similar sentiments is: What is happens during trade week? Would we be smart to give T- bird a contract we know he'll sign if there are 5 clubs after him. We may get above market for him - if not we'll re-sign him. We have got the money to give him, its all about timing.
The same crap happens every year.
Next year it will be.........will Bower and Kennedy go home????? We haven't re-signed them yet....oh no......sack the board.......oh, wait, they just re-signed.......sorry everyone, back to work.:rolleyes:

The club is in negotiations - NEGOTIATIONS.......read it slowly.

[TheGeneral]

You're right, they do have to wear whatever their managers do on their behalf. I just hate the perceptionthat its the players themselves talking it up in the media. Makes T-bird sound like Aker or Everitt.
The point is he should have been signed up before Kouta and the board has to cop criticism for that.

Why defend them?

If we lose Thornton what will your excuse be then?
The second bold point here is - who says we haven't.
Grant Williams and his manager McConville.
My question to you and every other poster on this site with similar sentiments is: What is happens during trade week? Would we be smart to give T- bird a contract we know he'll sign if there are 5 clubs after him. We may get above market for him - if not we'll re-sign him. We have got the money to give him, its all about timing.
The same crap happens every year.
Next year it will be.........will Bower and Kennedy go home????? We haven't re-signed them yet....oh no......sack the board.......oh, wait, they just re-signed.......sorry everyone, back to work.:rolleyes:

The club is in negotiations - NEGOTIATIONS.......read it slowly.
Hawthorn bending over a club is what usually happens in trade week. :p ;) :mad:

Why isn't Simpson a more important signing than Kouta as well?

Isn't he still uncontracted? :confused:

The Carlton board are a joke and you're looking like an apologist for them.

Weren't you criticising me over being angry at Carlton looking at Gardiner a while back? :rolleyes:

[Bluebear]

The point is he should have been signed up before Kouta and the board has to cop criticism for that.Why isn't Simpson a more important signing than Kouta as well?

They are both worth something in trade week. Like last year we probably won't trade them, but if somone makes an offer we can't refuse......

If we lose Thornton what will your excuse be then?

That we have got a high draft pick, and/or a quality player. Otherwise he will be re-signed.

Grant Williams and his manager McConville.
Didn't realise that that was the final offer. Of course there is more money.


Hawthorn bending over a club is what usually happens in trade week. :p ;) :mad:

Don't you mean Essendon?


The Carlton board are a joke and you're looking like an apologist for them.
True, they have not done much to gloat about (um, anything actually), but their strategy right now is sound. Wait until you see what is onthe (trade) table before you do anything. What if we signed him to a three year deal worth $300k as some have suggested.......and pick 6 is taken off the table because of it. This is of course hypothetical, but why not wait and see.

Weren't you criticising me over being angry at Carlton looking at Gardiner a while back? :rolleyes:
Yes. Why shouldn't we look at EVERY option.......or do you have one of Effes crystal balls to?:p

[shagger]

See what happens when you get all steamed up, you come out and say something silly.......and of course Effes is up there cheering you on.....what a joke.

Firstly its the managers who are conducting themselves through the media, not the players........name me one player....ever....who has wanted his earnings splashed all over the press........joke.

Not only do you spell like a 7 year old, you reason like one as well.
A player manager is a player representative. Whatever a manager says, he is doing so on the players behalf. Ignorance isnt an excuse.

As for folding like a pack of cards.............T-bird hasn't been re-signed, nor have a number of other players.
Campo left, Lappin nearly did too........fold my a$$.

Fevola mentions the G word (Gardiner) and the president runs to the media with a statement. Thorntons representative goes to the media, the club runs to the media with a statement. There have been more reactive statements out of PP than anywhere in the known world in the past month.

Since when has Barry Mitchell re-singed, did I miss that........even if he did I wasn't aware of his, or any of the sacked staff's medical or physiotherapy degrees.
NONE of the m would have ANYTHING to do with those players recovering from surgery right now. Start pre-season and maybe you have a point, but right now.......your an absolute joke.

The players recieve programs to maintain a fitness base during their off season. Players who have had post season surgery should have their rehab programs monitored and managed by the strength and conditioning staff.
We dont have any.
I wouldnt have thought it was too difficult for an intelligent person to understand that.
Perhaps I'm overstating your abilities.

[shagger]

I really do not understand people like yourself and Effes who do nothing but bag the club at every opportunity and have nothing posittive to say.

Todays article was speculative crap and little factual basis, but it doesn't stop trolls and people like yourself, wetting yourself at the chance to stick the boot in.

Pathetic.

Yes, you're right.
Move over and let me share that bucket of sand with you.
Thats just what the club needs, more apathetic followers like you.

Unlike your good self SA, I get involved and become proactive.
If all supporters had your attitude, John Elliot would have killed our club off completely.
And you'd be sitting back saying "what happened?"

Not everyone is like you. I'm not happy to sit back and see our club driven into the ground.

See, its funny isnt it?
You think supporters who get off their bum and do something are pathetic when I believe ostriches like yourself are the pathetic ones.

It takes all types hey?

[Bluebear]

[Not only do you spell like a 7 year old, you reason like one as well.
Thinking of someone else? Apart from odd blunders here and there, I'm not aware of a major spelling problem - besides the point anyway.

The players recieve programs to maintain a fitness base during their off season. The players would already have these programs

Players who have had post season surgery should have their rehab programs monitored and managed by the strength and conditioning staff.I wouldnt have thought it was too difficult for an intelligent person to understand that.
Perhaps I'm overstating your abilities.
Actually I'm a physiotherapist who has had ties with AFL clubs in the past.
You are UNDERSTATING my abilities and you're out of your depth.
Unless we have sacked the club doctor and physiotherapist you're full of SH$T.
The strength and conditioning coach takes care of the players schedules for their muscular strength, strength-endurance, and power training (if you don't understand the difference between these three opt out now).
They do this IN CONSULTATION with the medical staff who are responsible for allowing injured and recovering players back to varying degrees of training.
Strength and conditionng coaches have NO MEDICAL TRAINING. In general they are exercise physiologists/sports scientists.

Get out of the big kids pool Shagger:p

[SA Blue]

Yes, you're right.
Move over and let me share that bucket of sand with you.
Thats just what the club needs, more apathetic followers like you.

Unlike your good self SA, I get involved and become proactive.
If all supporters had your attitude, John Elliot would have killed our club off completely.
And you'd be sitting back saying "what happened?"

Not everyone is like you. I'm not happy to sit back and see our club driven into the ground.

See, its funny isnt it?
You think supporters who get off their bum and do something are pathetic when I believe ostriches like yourself are the pathetic ones.

It takes all types hey?

I have an idea, let's respond to someone with something totally off topic and pretend I am right that way. It is easier than responding to the actual point.

Your idea of action is to destroy all you can see and just whinge without offering anything positive in return.

You say you are getting off your bum. Well can you enlighten me with what you have done??