View Full Version : Shane Johnson axed
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 10:10
Shane Johnson axed.
According to our CEO, its due to a budget review,and cost cutting in the football department.
marcus and lamby to add his player welfare manager job to their list of jobs.
ouch....Not good at all.Loyalty and doing the best job possible, means nothing.
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 10:18
The sky is falling in.
It is a sad sad day:(
Tim the Toolman
28 Sep 2006, 10:33
We're starting to look like Telstra!
Anyway, in my work life, having worked in Queensland on and off over the past 15 years I notice a 'we're going fishing' mentality after a while. I think that's starting to hit with the Lions. The supporters will start to do other things for fun too.
The sky is falling in.
The sky is still where it should be here in Mexico Grim.
The sun come up as usual, the birds are chirping, my rooster is still crowing, in fact it's a beautiful morning.
What's going on over there in Redneck town. The sky has fallen, again!
Must have something to do with this;
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,20485578-5003410,00.html
"It is believed another Young stablemate, LLane Spaanderman, complained of a lack of communication and education to younger players from the Lions coaching staff on his return to Perth after being delisted by Brisbane at the end of last season".
Shane Johnson must be another scapegoat for the Spander fiasco?:rolleyes:
The sky is still where it should be here in Mexico Grim.
The sun come up as usual, the birds are chirping, my rooster is still crowing, in fact it's a beautiful morning.
What's going on over there in Redneck town. The sky has fallen, again!
Theres a bright golden haze in the meadow
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 10:47
He is the players voice.His role was the welfare of the players.
Now that role is vacant, and the Football Admin Manager takes it under his wing, as well as an assistant coach.
He is the players voice.His role was the welfare of the players.
Now that role is vacant, and the Football Admin Manager takes it under his wing, as well as an assistant coach.
It clearly is not vacant. It will be shared by two others. What's the problem with that?
blinker
28 Sep 2006, 10:51
Must have something to do with this;
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,20485578-5003410,00.html
"It is believed another Young stablemate, LLane Spaanderman, complained of a lack of communication and education to younger players from the Lions coaching staff on his return to Perth after being delisted by Brisbane at the end of last season".
Shane Johnson must be another scapegoat for the Spander fiasco?:rolleyes:
if spander was any good, he would have been picked up by another afl club. He is playing wafl and will find it hard to get listed by the dockers or weagles with their talent lists.
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 10:52
It clearly is not vacant. It will be shared by two others. What's the problem with that?
Think about it.
The players have had, 1 person to go to, day and night, whose role within the club is their welfare needs and problems.
Now that position is no longer there, its split between 2 people, who also have other roles within the football department.
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 10:54
What's going on over there in Redneck town.
There is panic in the streets. People are looting buildings. The pavements are scattered with torn memberships.
Best case scenario is the death of the Brisbane Lions football club, but I fear civil war is imminent.
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 11:00
There is panic in the streets. People are looting buildings. The pavements are scattered with torn memberships.
Best case scenario is the death of the Brisbane Lions football club, but I fear civil war is imminent.
Good to see you guys can hijack a thread about a loyal club person,and make fun of it.
pathetic.
blinker
28 Sep 2006, 11:02
now, if they could just get rid of Dr Phil Jauncy, they might be on the right path.
There is panic in the streets. People are looting buildings. The pavements are scattered with torn memberships.
Best case scenario is the death of the Brisbane Lions football club, but I fear civil war is imminent.
I love a good revolution. Freedom, liberty and all that thing. I hear "La Marseillaise" being played as the hordes are storming "The Gabba"
Think about it.
The players have had, 1 person to go to, day and night, whose role within the club is their welfare needs and problems.
Now that position is no longer there, its split between 2 people, who also have other roles within the football department.
Welfare needs and problems:rolleyes: . Look at some of the scariest moments on our Getting To Know You thread. Go work on a production line making tin cans.
Kicking a footy and getting paid. How tough on the poor dears:rolleyes:!
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 11:10
Welfare needs and problems:rolleyes: . Look at some of the scariest moments on our Getting To Know You thread. Go work on a production line making tin cans.
Kicking a footy and getting paid. How tough on the poor dears:rolleyes:!
Not a clue huh!!!!!
Not a clue huh!!!!!
About what? Your the nurse you tell me.
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 11:18
About what? Your the nurse you tell me.
They should think themselves lucky hey John, they are playing footy.Is that what you think.
Player Welfare is crucial.Who the heck do you think organises the newbie 18 yr olds transfers, looks after and settles these guys amongst a million other things.
Its not all about football.The WHOLE player is important.
They should think themselves lucky hey John, they are playing footy.Is that what you think.
Player Welfare is crucial.Who the heck do you think organises the newbie 18 yr olds transfers, looks after and settles these guys amongst a million other things.
Its not all about football.The WHOLE player is important.
So you don't trust the other two to do the job?
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 11:30
So you don't trust the other two to do the job?
What I am saying is the job is a massive role within the club.Its a 1 person job.It has been for many many years.
Marcus and Lamby have very busy roles within the department already, without adding more to those roles.
The players will be the one who lose out in this change.Marcus and Lamby will have increased roles, and in that, their other jobs could be disadvatnaged.Increased workloads means for stressed staff.
What I am saying is the job is a massive role within the club.Its a 1 person job.It has been for many many years.
Marcus and Lamby have very busy roles within the department already, without adding more to those roles.
The players will be the one who lose out in this change.Marcus and Lamby will have increased roles, and in that, their other jobs could be disadvatnaged.Increased workloads means for stressed staff.
So do you think that this will cause morale problems with Marcus and Lamby?
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 11:37
So do you think that this will cause morale problems with Marcus and Lamby?
What do you think John.
Both guys have set job within the department already.Busy specific roles.Now they have this added to their workday.Do you think they would be stressed, or could be stressed.Do you think ALL their roles will be able to be done effectively as they have been this year?Where do you think they will find the extra hours to complete these extra tasks required, without the players being disadvantaged in any way?
Do you think we may have been able to cut costs somewhere else in the department?
What do you think John.
Both guys have set job within the department already.Busy specific roles.Now they have this added to their workday.Do you think they would be stressed, or could be stressed.Do you think ALL their roles will be able to be done effectively as they have been this year?Where do you think they will find the extra hours to complete these extra tasks required, without the players being disadvantaged in any way?
Do you think we may have been able to cut costs somewhere else in the department?
Hmmm you have won me over the club sucks. What can we do about it?
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 11:45
Hmmm you have won me over the club sucks. What can we do about it?
I did not say the club sucks.Goodness me.
So do you think its a good move all around.For the players, marcus and lamby.
Do you think their other roles will suffer because of their increased workloads.
Would you like it if your boss came up to you and said hey John, I know you have a busy job now, but I want you to share this extra job as well as do your own one.
I did not say the club sucks.Goodness me.
So do you think its a good move all around.For the players, marcus and lamby.
Do you think their other roles will suffer because of their increased workloads.
Would you like it if your boss came up to you and said hey John, I know you have a busy job now, but I want you to share this extra job as well as do your own one.
Happens all the time campbell. Happens to countless numbers of people every day. As much as you and I might not like that it is a sad fact of life. I know that you are not going to like trade week as we will watch some of our heros maybe get traded. Do your self a favour and keep away as much as possible from it all as I do not think that you have the mental capacity to take it other than personal. I am not critical of those feelings you have but as I have said to you before players come and go, as do we all in all walks of life. You just have to live with it. That is life.
Lady Lawrence
28 Sep 2006, 12:20
I actually find this very sad but not surprising. Shane Johnson is one of the "old school" ie pre-Bowers and they are pretty much all gone now.
Irregardless of my stance on the club etc etc, I firmly believe this should be a one person role. The involvement in the players welfare should be 100% and not competed with for time by other issues. Dilutes the focus IMO.
This is not a stick up for Campbell post or a trash the club post and I ask all of you to stop this sustained attack on pretty simple post which stated a fact and put their thoughts on it re loyalty etc all of you bar none have given no thought to the post just straight out attack on the poster.
Nowhere was Campbell's post a sky is fallin in type thing, Grim you started this and the rest of you just followed.
This is what I defend as moderator, not an opinion before you jump in beatnik.
People still come and go LL. We could post these types of posts week in week out. "The groundsmans been laid off how sad". What is the point of them? There will be a whole bunch of new people there in a few years and what will we do? Bitch about it? To repeat from my last post. Some of the posters should not bother posting here during trade week as that is going to be brutal and that is a sad fact of life. We live in a hard world.
Lady Lawrence
28 Sep 2006, 12:41
People still come and go LL. We could post these types of posts week in week out. "The groundsmans been laid off how sad". What is the point of them? There will be a whole bunch of new people there in a few years and what will we do? Bitch about it? To repeat from my last post. Some of the posters should not bother posting here during trade week as that is going to be brutal and that is a sad fact of life. We live in a hard world.
I completely agree John, I do not agree with everyone jumping on the too sad so bad tack that has happened here.
The saddest thing about it all is that a lot of the people that have gone over the past 3-4 years are the people that have been there since day dot though and many of us have formed bonds with a lot of them at varying levels and unfortunately all hear the same reasons for leaving.
Yes there is staff turnover in every business, I don't believe an AFL club is unique to a lot of other businesses but I do believe the Lions are pretty unique compared to perhaps 12 of the other 15 teams. The percentage for staff turnover is enormous and recruitment costs are often the largest costs and drain on a business. Staff retention is the key to a successfull busines inthis day and age. I could link to a thousand different articles about this in the past 12 months.
And my own personal opinion on this is that it all relates back to Bowers. He is not successfully running the business. Whether it be because he does live up to his nickname and recruits the right people who cannot stay or is a complete incompetenet and only recruits yes people that cannot do the job and then get sacked for their inability etc. How can 4 CFO's in 5 years all be crap at the job?
There is a difference between come and go with an ebb and a flow as opposed to a bleeding tsunami.
Fair enough that you have those issues. I just might in a couple of years, who knows. I guess to go back to the original point of the thread there maybe comes a point when the same posters post the same negative posts and it all gets a tad tiresome. I am supporter of beatniks points to be honest but respect the debate he and yourself had about it all but to me this is just another dig at The Lions in the long list of many. I am bored with it to be honest. Are we not a fan site? I can handle robust debate but to get the impression that we are just being trashed all the time does not gel with me. I get into a chat on an external club board and have certain posters not defending the club and then apologising about Lions supporters FFS. I do not relate to it. Go support another team.
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 13:08
How will a newbie young player feel at our club in future. No one independent to turn to, who is not a coach or adminsitrator. No sounding block, no help. I think it will be intimidating to the players.
I wonder also about the confidentiality aspect for these players also.
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 13:10
Good to see you guys can hijack a thread about a loyal club person,and make fun of it.
pathetic.
Your scaremongering is pathetic.
The on-field side of things is what I like to talk about, team structure and balance and recruitment are great topics. But we all spend too much time bickering over off-field rubbish that we need to leave the qualified people to deal with.
I agree.
Lady Lawrence
28 Sep 2006, 13:12
Fair enough that you have those issues. I just might in a couple of years, who knows. I guess to go back to the original point of the thread there maybe comes a point when the same posters post the same negative posts and it all gets a tad tiresome. I am supporter of beatniks points to be honest but respect the debate he and yourself had about it all but to me this is just another dig at The Lions in the long list of many. I am bored with it to be honest. Are we not a fan site? I can handle robust debate but to get the impression that we are just being trashed all the time does not gel with me. I get into a chat on an external club board and have certain posters not defending the club and then apologising about Lions supporters FFS. I do not relate to it. Go support another team.
The negative was that a long time servant of the club has been axed.
The rest of you turned it into an all in brawl - can you not see that?
Like a bunch of rabid dogs each time a little tidbit is put out.
How will a newbie young player feel at our club in future. No one independent to turn to, who is not a coach or adminsitrator. No sounding block, no help. I think it will be intimidating to the players.
I wonder also about the confidentiality aspect for these players also.
I don't know. The same as me when I went to work as a 16 year old apprentice back in the good old days when they had barstardisation/initiation ceromonies I guess. Learn from the experiance and get on with life.
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 13:16
I don't know. The same as me when I went to work as a 16 year old apprentice back in the good old days when they had barstardisation/initiation ceromonies I guess. Learn from the experiance and get on with life.
I can't believe you just said that.Amazing.
The negative was that a long time servant of the club has been axed.
And you know in your heart of hear that that is life.
The rest of you turned it into an all in brawl - can you not see that?
Like a bunch of rabid dogs each time a little tidbit is put out.
I agree it comes across that way but read the last part of my post to you and that may explain my postion to the Poster(s). They give it out you get it as well. This is very easy to stop.
I can't believe you just said that.Amazing.
Then you are naive beyond belief.
Lady Lawrence
28 Sep 2006, 13:21
How will a newbie young player feel at our club in future. No one independent to turn to, who is not a coach or adminsitrator. No sounding block, no help. I think it will be intimidating to the players.
I wonder also about the confidentiality aspect for these players also.
this to me is the crux of the issue.
1. Player A has a personal off field issue and goes to welfare manager to chat about it. Welfare manager advises how best to deal with it etc etc
or
2. Player A goes to welfare manager/assistant coach to chat about, in the back of his mind wondering will this affect my selection chances this week etc.
Is there a potential conflict of interest here. Assistant coaches are part of the selection committee, will the be able to maintain confidentiality about player A around the selection table.
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 13:23
The negative was that a long time servant of the club has been axed.
The rest of you turned it into an all in brawl - can you not see that?
Like a bunch of rabid dogs each time a little tidbit is put out.
What do you expect when the source of the information is someone who uses every little excuse to have a go at the club? Why can't we just pay homage to Johnson without abusing the club.
FFS we have been the most successful club this decade and I don't think I have ever heard anybody contratulate the board for that. They must be doing something right, but all anyone ever does is criticise. That's p1ss weak if you ask me, and I find it all very disappointing.
And LL, if people defend the club, then you're not happy about that either. Well I suppose I'll just join in the hatred of the Lions and hang sh1t on them all the time. I might be able to fit then.
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 13:27
Then you are naive beyond belief.
I assume you have never heard of any relevant workplace laws John.
you can't treat people like that nowadays,without going to jail.
I am glad we have evolved from the bastard ways of the past.In no way should we ever condone those ways, let alone expect it could happen in a workplace today, let alone OUR workplace.
Warwick
28 Sep 2006, 13:28
this to me is the crux of the issue.
1. Player A has a personal off field issue and goes to welfare manager to chat about it. Welfare manager advises how best to deal with it etc etc
or
2. Player A goes to welfare manager/assistant coach to chat about, in the back of his mind wondering will this affect my selection chances this week etc.
Is there a potential conflict of interest here. Assistant coaches are part of the selection committee, will the be able to maintain confidentiality about player A around the selection table.
Do you think the leadership group could play a more important role in these sort of things? It wouldn't be ideal to have extra players involved, but this group are the team representatives and the link between the player group and coaching staff. They are a bunch of strong people who would make the right decisions and could be trusted to obey the player's wishes.
What do you expect when the source of the information is someone who uses every little excuse to have a go at the club? Why can't we just pay homage to Johnson without abusing the club.
FFS we have been the most successful club this decade and I don't think I have ever heard anybody contratulate the board for that. They must be doing something right, but all anyone ever does is criticise. That's p1ss weak if you ask me, and I find it all very disappointing.
And LL, if people defend the club, then you're not happy about that either. Well I suppose I'll just join in the hatred of the Lions and hang sh1t on them all the time. I might be able to fit then.
I am looking forward to you apologising for me on the Bulldogs board :rolleyes: .
And by the way no more critiquing anything that other boards say about our rubbish club either:rolleyes:
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 13:32
I hope player confidentiality is paramount in all of this.
I can't see how a young 18 year old, would have the balls to talk to a senior player about something.An intimidating thing that could be.
I can also see how any player can be thinking and be concerned for their pac ein the team or their future within the group, if they talk to a coach about a sensitve player welfare issue.
I assume you have never heard of any relevant workplace laws John.
you can't treat people like that nowadays,without going to jail.
I am glad we have evolved from the bastard ways of the past.In no way should we ever condone those ways, let alone expect it could happen in a workplace today, let alone OUR workplace.
Campbell don't preach to me about those issues. I was involved heavily in my younger days in Unions and fought very hard to get rid of that trash and various health and safety laws. I too am happy we are better than that even though one of your colleagues is pineing for the good old days.
Lady Lawrence
28 Sep 2006, 13:48
What do you expect when the source of the information is someone who uses every little excuse to have a go at the club? Why can't we just pay homage to Johnson without abusing the club.
FFS we have been the most successful club this decade and I don't think I have ever heard anybody contratulate the board for that. They must be doing something right, but all anyone ever does is criticise. That's p1ss weak if you ask me, and I find it all very disappointing.
And LL, if people defend the club, then you're not happy about that either. Well I suppose I'll just join in the hatred of the Lions and hang sh1t on them all the time. I might be able to fit then.
Oh FFS. This is getting beyond a joke. What if our little Sherminator or Vipertooth had posted the story that Shane Johnson had been axed. Would you all have laid into them for informing us abut another departure from the club.
No
The fact that Campbell posted it means that you all lay into her again and everything is a begative hang **** on the lions thread. Really you lot are pathetic.
Yes we thank Shane Johnson for all he has done for the club, yes we grieve for the fact that another long time servant of the club has gone and this is where it then gets ugly.
Sheep people over on this side. Geez that's life, sad but true people come and people go, no problem with sacking him, no problem with splitting the role bwteen two other people. Clubs says it's ok so I'll happily go along with that.
Non sheep people over on this side, jeez that's an interesting one. Wonder how the younguns will fair now, would they still be able to go to an assistant coach etc the same way as they could with an independent.
etc etc etc
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 13:52
Oh FFS. This is getting beyond a joke. What if our little Sherminator or Vipertooth had posted the story that Shane Johnson had been axed. Would you all have laid into them for informing us abut another departure from the club.
No. Because they don't have an agenda and I can take them on face value.
Sheep people over on this side.
Trolls on the other side.
The Flying Belgian
28 Sep 2006, 14:29
A big thank you to Shane for all his hard work over the years. I'm sure all the players appreciate it.
As for the rest of this nonsense...... Yawn. Very Yawn. What a waste of energy. I'll be back when we start talking about football again. See ya's.
Shane Johnson axed.
According to our CEO, its due to a budget review,and cost cutting in the football department.
marcus and lamby to add his player welfare manager job to their list of jobs.
ouch....Not good at all.Loyalty and doing the best job possible, means nothing.
Would it have been better if rather than trash the club for every decision it makes, you extend respect to Shane by acknowledging his contribution to Brisbane Lions.
Perhaps you could have posted a message with a more neutral tone and inflection in order to avoid the angst you are continually creating.
Something like this perhaps;
"Long time servant of the club Shane Johnson is the victim of cost cutting measures at the Lions. Due to budget constraints the club feel at this point in time that The Welfare Manager's position can be shared between Lamb and Ashcroft as part of their current responsibilities within the Lions' Football Department structure. Shane has done a wonderfully job and us supporters and players will miss him and wish him all the best in the future".
Do you see the difference?
LL on this occasion I find it puzzling that you feel you need to rescue campbel from her own naivety and in the process reveal yourself to be again in consort with the clan. Yet you continually state that you are being misrepresented.
Yes, I agree with Grim's sentiments, Sheep to the left trolls to the right. Where do yo belong.? If you classify someone that supports and defends the club from any "TROLL" unjustly attacking and criticizing with malice be it a so called Lions supporter or an interloper, than I am a sheep.
Homer Jnr
28 Sep 2006, 15:49
I am looking forward to you apologising for me on the Bulldogs board :rolleyes: .
And by the way no more critiquing anything that other boards say about our rubbish club either:rolleyes:
It is a sad day, for the football club and the posters here.
Sad for the club that we have lost a loyal hard-working servant.
Sad for the posters here that they can't keep their hands to themselves long enough to stop trying to point-score and harrass each other.
Grow up, all of you, I personally am sick of it.
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 15:59
It is a sad day, for the football club and the posters here.
Sad for the club that we have lost a loyal hard-working servant.
Sad for the posters here that they can't keep their hands to themselves long enough to stop trying to point-score and harrass each other.
Grow up, all of you, I personally am sick of it.
Can I ask what you got suspended for?
Viceregal
28 Sep 2006, 16:16
Does anyone know if this is a temporary measure while things are tight with intent to reinstate the position as an entity when we can afford it or if the job is permanently rationalised into the other two ones with a thought that it is good and will get the job done?
How do the other 15 clubs handle this - is it normally a seperate position or a joint one - and how much of a difference does it make to the players and their ongoing club contributions and longevity at individual clubs?
scott522
28 Sep 2006, 18:51
Thanks Johnno for all you have done for our boys and our club...i believe you made a difference.
Homer Jnr
28 Sep 2006, 19:10
Can I ask what you got suspended for?
Political prisoner :p
Nah, took a shot at Bombers 2003 on the suggestion board... Definately the wrong place to air a greivance.
I don't know exactly what it was, as I was never informed, so I assume it was that.
Bobby Beecroft
28 Sep 2006, 21:32
Agreed its a sad day when we lose a loyal servant of the club & the job is extremely relevant in player welfare & retaining players.
BUT.... (& if anyone calls me a sheep.....hmmm :mad: ) when the possibility of the club announcing a large scale loss surfaced this type of action was always a possibility. What did ppl expect? This is the real world.
Can't be bothered digging up the relevant thread, but I would find it ironic if those that are clearly upset with this decision were the harshest critics when the loss became apparent.
Living in Melbourne I have an appreciation of how well off we are in comparison to Bulldogs, North, Melbourne....etc
I did try to warn people of the eventual bottoming out of the club during the year (on & off the field), but was treated with some distain. On field if Vossy retires, Mal leaves, amongst other players retiring/leaving , etc & off field Shane Johnson is gone, & more than likely other cost saving measures will apply, the bottom out will occur.
With more pain ahead, it will sort out the Lion & Cub supporters.
Im starting to sound like a broken record & I don't enjoy it!!!
TheBrownDog
28 Sep 2006, 21:39
Yeah, the real story here (in addition to the sad loss of a dedicated club servant) is that our financial situation has resulted in cuts in our actual football department.
Not good, not good at all.
The sooner we get the social club up and running so we can get the old folks in to empty their pensions into the pokies the better.
Bobby Beecroft
28 Sep 2006, 21:45
The sooner we get the social club up and running so we can get the old folks in to empty their pensions into the pokies the better.
Sacrifice old ppls social welfare for our players sakes.
You old Robin Hood TBD :D
TheBrownDog
28 Sep 2006, 21:53
Sacrifice old ppls social welfare for our players sakes.
You old Robin Hood TBD :D
They wont starve, cat food is cheap these days.
Bobby Beecroft
28 Sep 2006, 21:56
They wont starve, cat food is cheap these days.
First Shane Johnson axed & Now you want our players on a Cat Food diet.
Wonder what the dietician thinks of that............ if in fact we still have one.
TheBrownDog
28 Sep 2006, 21:57
First Shane Johnson axed & Now you want our players on a Cat Food diet.
Wonder what the dietician thinks of that............ if in fact we still have one.
I meant the old people can eat cat food, not our players! :eek:
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 22:47
Does anyone know if this is a temporary measure while things are tight with intent to reinstate the position as an entity when we can afford it or if the job is permanently rationalised into the other two ones with a thought that it is good and will get the job done?
How do the other 15 clubs handle this - is it normally a seperate position or a joint one - and how much of a difference does it make to the players and their ongoing club contributions and longevity at individual clubs?
All clubs have a PLayer Welfare or similar titled person, who looks after these things.
The recent emphasis on player welfare and development has
resulted in all Clubs now seriously addressing this issue.
This from AFL website.
I know one of my sons did a Uni assignment last year in Sports Management.He had to look at PLayer Welfare in AFL and NRL.He rang Fremantle and Brisbane, plus the NRL in Sydney.Its an area that all clubs are supposed to take seriously.They offer newbie course in financial stuff, cooking classes, get the kids sorted into uni or whatever.The aim is to ensure that all the players are compete people, who after theri career ends whether that be next week or 10 years time, come out of the whol AFL exprience the best they can, as a whole normal person.
They have media lessons, all that sort of stuff.The player welfare officer is the one who orangises all these things and is the lynchpin for the players.
So, I would certainly hope that this position we are taking is temporary.
We have to remember that this time last year we had less Football department staff than we do now.When starch left we increased his job from 1 to 3.We hired marcus as well in an extra position in footy admin.
So, lets hope we can balance the budget this next year, or else we may lose more people.
Shane Johnson has been invaluable in everything he has done for our players over a long period of time.He will be sorely missed.
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 22:50
All clubs have a PLayer Welfare or similar titled person, who looks after these things.
The recent emphasis on player welfare and development has
resulted in all Clubs now seriously addressing this issue.
This from AFL website.
Can you provide a link please.
Thankyou in advance.
campbell
28 Sep 2006, 23:01
Can you provide a link please.
Thankyou in advance.
http://www.aflpa.com.au/media/Parents%20Pres.pdf#search=%22afl%20player%20welfare%22
of course. Would you like the names of clubs player welfare managers as well, I am sure I can hunt them out.
Freo's is Walker I think his name was.
Lawrie Fabian used to be Carlton's
Danny Daly for the Roos
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s28366.htm
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/18/1079199359356.html?from=storyrhs
http://kangaroos.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=afldisplay&articleid=297595
This from our club I particulary like.
While the Lions have been a leader in providing players with personal development from the start of their time at the club, the strategic plan works towards the club providing the best possible player welfare environment before, during and after a player’s career.
“Players are any club’s greatest asset, and we recognise that,” Downie said.
“We want players and their families at National Draft time wishing ‘I hope I’m picked by the Lions’. Equally, we want Lions players retired from the game thinking ‘I’m so lucky I went to Brisbane’.
http://lions.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=chairman_display&articleid=227593
The Broncos Player Welfare Manager is ben Ikin.
Grimreepah
28 Sep 2006, 23:57
All clubs have a PLayer Welfare or similar titled person, who looks after these things.
Actually this was the statement that I was wanting you to back up. You're suggesting we are the only club that doesn't have a person who's sole responsibility is player welfare. Can anyone confirm this?
campbell
29 Sep 2006, 10:06
AFL requirement under the cba, player education and welfare.So yes all clubs have at least 1 staff member to take care of that component.A large role within any club.
I wonder why Bowers got a raise and we sacked the player welfare guy.Can't use the budget in that case can we.
CEOs contract raises etc are generally worked out when they sign on. Therefore his wage rise is irrelevant in this situation. The club is trying to cut costs and it's now hitting the football dept. That is a major concern.
I'd be interested to know how long Bowers contract is for.
campbell
29 Sep 2006, 11:50
CEOs contract raises etc are generally worked out when they sign on. Therefore his wage rise is irrelevant in this situation. The club is trying to cut costs and it's now hitting the football dept. That is a major concern.
I'd be interested to know how long Bowers contract is for.
Why can't we go back to 1 strentgh and conditoning coach as we did in 2005 and prior to that, now we have 3 of them.Thats 2 extra there.
The Flying Belgian
29 Sep 2006, 11:55
Why can't we go back to 1 strentgh and conditoning coach as we did in 2005 and prior to that, now we have 3 of them.Thats 2 extra there.
I'd agree with that in theory. I think that's overkill. I'm with you on this campbell. I prefer a dedicated player welfare officer.
Where was it reported that Bowers got a raise?
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 13:01
Why can't we go back to 1 strentgh and conditoning coach as we did in 2005 and prior to that, now we have 3 of them.Thats 2 extra there.
Actually we had 2, just with different titles.
We had Craig Starcevich & Scott Murphy. When Murph went off to England we had Penfold come in to replace him. 18 months later when Starce went, Penfold was elevated to the position, Moore came in to fill the vacancy and Kennedy was brought in to expand the team. The structure of what they did was somewhat re-designed to accommodate the 3 of them, and other administrative duties for their roles that Starce/Penfold/Murphy used to do were handed over to the new role footy admin manager that Ashcroft came into to allow the strength & conditioning blokes to concentrate more on their hands on duties.
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 13:06
Now as for the topic at hand, I feel like I'm in shock. I hadn't heard/read about Johnson as being school holidays I was away from things for a few days.
Shane Johnson played an integral role within the department. The man worked a ridiculous amount of hours every week. He was there day and night to help with whatever needed doing. He was the liaison with the parents and families, helped with education, accommodation, general well being. I couldn't begin to try and list all the types of things he did.
He will be sorely missed by many people. And I for one send him a big thankyou for all the work he's done over so many years.
I wonder about the divvying up of his duties though. When the player appearance/media assistant left to have a baby last February, it was decided not to replace her. The idea was that her full time role could be now handled by Johnson & Ashcroft ontop of their other workloads. And now Johnson is gone too.
Danni wish you had the time to post more often. You always bring sense and informative contributions.
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 13:23
Thanks kimp. Actually I have not had internet access at home for a couple of months (was just logging in when I could from work - and I only work 3 days a week) as we were 'going to be moving soon' and I didn't want the transfer fee etc. (They want my house for the bloody new eastern busway!!). But as we haven't found the right place yet I rang up yesterday to get it all reconnected. I'll be around more often now.
campbell
29 Sep 2006, 13:30
I would like to know how this will affect the current and new playing group.
If Shane Johnson worked long long hours, how can 2 others take over that role, on top of their already increased roles.
A shame of the players miss out in this cost cutting exercise.
How would the players not miss out on any cost cutting?
campbell
29 Sep 2006, 13:38
How would the players not miss out on any cost cutting?
The players need the time of the Player Welfare manager.Time and empathy in welfare is paramount.
Unhappy players are not good for our business.
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 13:41
How would the players not miss out on any cost cutting?
Personally I find it extremely disturbing that it has been said we are 'cost cutting'. If you had to pick one area in a club not to cost cut, it would have to be the Football Department. Getting the team on the field, providing them with the best opportunities to be happy, healthy,comfortable and as fit as they are able to be, so they can spend their energy concerntrating on playing footy and being competitive and successful as a team, has to be a priority.
Without a team on the field you have no Brisbane Lions. Without a competative team on the field, you can't maximise your opportunities for sponsorship and membership and have a viable, let alone successful, club as a whole.
campbell
29 Sep 2006, 13:52
I wonder whats changed from this in 2005, where we want to do whatever it takes to have happy players, to cost cutting in this area now.
While the Lions have been a leader in providing players with personal development from the start of their time at the club, the strategic plan works towards the club providing the best possible player welfare environment before, during and after a player’s career.
“Players are any club’s greatest asset, and we recognise that,” Downie said.
“We want players and their families at National Draft time wishing ‘I hope I’m picked by the Lions’. Equally, we want Lions players retired from the game thinking ‘I’m so lucky I went to Brisbane’.
http://lions.com.au/default.asp?pg=n...ticleid=227593
I don't relate to any of this. What happens to the thousands of school leavers this and every year when they get a job and find out that the adults they are working with are as childish as school was. Do they have some bloody padre to go cry on the shoulder of? Yeah I know the way they handle themselves in the media and all that B/S. I find all this cult of personality a load of bunkum. A bloke I work with told me the other day a local Rugby player has spent so much of his time kicking a ball all his life in the expectation of being a pro that HE CANT EVEN GET MONEY OUT OF A TELLER. So we hire wet nurses at great cost to explain to them to be nice to little kids who want their autographs, talk nice on Qld Rules, how to bank how to drive and what other afflication might hurt them because they are now in the spotlight. What affing crap:mad: . I would have given my life to be talented but no we wet nurse these boys because they are too stupid to understand that they have been given a natural talent and that life is easy really if you are polite and good to others and try your best with the talent given.
Don't get me wrong Danni I'm very concerned that we're making cuts to the football dept. That to me shows that the financial issues are significantly worse than we've been lead to believe.
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 14:19
Don't get me wrong Danni I'm very concerned that we're making cuts to the football dept. That to me shows that the financial issues are significantly worse than we've been lead to believe.
and further to that kimp, and in response as well to your footy department clean out comment on the aker thread.........
See this is where the 'cost cutting' comment has me concerned. To be honest I keep focusing on two conversations I had with Matthews in the last few years after reading that Johnson was gone, 'cost cutting', and whatever the hell it is going on down there that Aker (who is not stupid, impulsive and self centric, yes, but stupid, no) has opened his mouth again and out has come what can only really be termed 'gossip', yet why would he say that without any semblence of substance?
I'm sure we all remember the reported deal when Matthews came to the Club.
Carte blance. Leigh as Director of Football Operations, Graeme Allan as Football Manager, Leigh as Senior Coach. Once Matthews started here, it was then every job up for grabs. Didn't matter if you'd been in it for 2 months or 10 years, were full time, part time, casual or volunteer. Everyone had the opporutnity to re-apply for their jobs and anyone outside had a chance to apply for them too. The department was overhauled head to toe. Facilities, equipment, personnel.
The end of the week that Starcevich left and other changes were announced last year, I asked Leigh how he was. He told me that it had been a hard week. He talked about the insular world of football that is even smaller on a club then football department basis. How close to people you become, how it's not just that person, but their family, their social circle, their families livliehood that are involved as well in changes. And he went on to say about that aside, decisions have to made. How weighing up options and looking at new strategies, and choosing the ones that would appear to work best come into it. And personal feelings have to be aside for the bigger picture of things in progress. It was a really good conversation.
More than a year earlier than that, we'd had a conversation about how the department worked/structure. Nothing formal, just one of those conversations that 'just happened'. He told me how he (as director of football) surrounded himself with the best of the best. That he simply trusted/believed that each and every person did their job to their best ability. And how each and everyone just expected/respected/accepted the same of each other. How if someone said they needed x piece of equipment or y piece of software, he believe it was the case as they were the best of the best and they got what they needed to perform their roles at their best.
Leigh has an incredible ability of bringing together a group of people that are very different, very talented and work together very well. People that in the day to day real/non-footy world, probably would never work together or even associate. Incredible working relationships and respect, that see them all get on, no matter how different they are as people.
I believe that these attitudes of his are a major part of our golden era. If we are now 'cost cutting' in this area, where does it leave us?
If one acts impulsively and are also self centric that can make them come across as an idiot. Sorry but I have seen the bloke in action in public and you are right he was impulsive, impulsively rude and egostistical. This happened during the glory years so I was not very keen on him after that episode of non idiotic egotistical impulsivness. If the many can justify these actions and not consider them idiotic then I am at a loss.
campbell
29 Sep 2006, 14:39
So. Who actually is making the decisions in the football department then, has it reverted to the CEO having the final say as it used to.or is it the board, or is it still lethal.
Anyone.....
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 14:53
I don't relate to any of this. What happens to the thousands of school leavers this and every year when they get a job and find out that the adults they are working with are as childish as school was. Do they have some bloody padre to go cry on the shoulder of? Yeah I know the way they handle themselves in the media and all that B/S. I find all this cult of personality a load of bunkum. A bloke I work with told me the other day a local Rugby player has spent so much of his time kicking a ball all his life in the expectation of being a pro that HE CANT EVEN GET MONEY OUT OF A TELLER. So we hire wet nurses at great cost to explain to them to be nice to little kids who want their autographs, talk nice on Qld Rules, how to bank how to drive and what other afflication might hurt them because they are now in the spotlight. What affing crap:mad: . I would have given my life to be talented but no we wet nurse these boys because they are too stupid to understand that they have been given a natural talent and that life is easy really if you are polite and good to others and try your best with the talent given.
A player welfare manager isn't a nursemaid John.
Nursemaid might be part of it at some times, but in general they are there to support and guide players through many number of transitions in their careers. They are mother/father/counsellor/confidant/teacher to new boys as they arrive. They are the link between the families and the club.
If these kids were still at home their parents, friends, relatives would be doing it for them. They give the players the tools to do things for themselves, they don't just go and do it all for them.
I still don't relate to it. I suspect my upbringing may play a part in that. We where taught to be independant in thinking and in thoughtful action. Maybe your right but...............:confused:
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 15:22
I still don't relate to it. I suspect my upbringing may play a part in that. We where taught to be independant in thinking and in thoughtful action. Maybe your right but...............:confused:
And who taught you that?
And when you were say 17, 18, 19 and you needed the information to go and do things for yourself instead of having someone do it for you who did you turn to?
The first time you got a speeding ticket or had a car accident, you probably dealt with it yourself, but who did you go ask to find out how to go about it?
When you moved out of home for the first time how did you know how to go about renting a place? Getting the electricity connected, the phone, the gas? Who did you ask?
You've left home and your state and you are making your debut playing footy, your rights/contract/cba say your parents will be there to be part of it. You only find out the night before you are playing. SHould you then be worrying about getting your folks there and put in accommodation and tickets to the game etc? Or would it be great for you to concerntrate on keeping the nerves down and getting ready for the game because you know someone else is doing that for you?
Your in an accident or injured, your away from home, your family/wife/girlfriend needs to get there, who will do that for you? you? from your mobile in the ambulance or from your hospital bed?
You're 17 and suddenly living your dream and getting paid very well to do it. You suddenly have all this money. How do you handle it? What about buying a car who gives you advise?
And on top of those sort of things, you are growing up. You are going to make mistakes, go out get drunk, get into fights, whatever. You'll have regrets and you'll learn from mistakes and life will go on. Or maybe not. What if you are in a fishbowl now. What if you make the sort of mistakes others do when growing up? It ends up front page of the paper. Who teaches you about those traps, how to avoid those mistakes, what life is like in the fishbowl, how to make the best of it, and what the worst of it could entail?
Those are only some of the many many and varied things a welfare and development manager does. These kids can't just wander into the next room and ask their mum or dad, so someone is there to guide them.
OK. You have won me over other than with the impetuous one.
P.S. How about giving a few on here lessons on how to write a post that does not read as an attack on the club.
beatnik
29 Sep 2006, 15:54
Really you lot are pathetic...
Sheep people over on this side....
Non sheep people over on this side...
are you for real? how do you expect to have any credibility as an objective adjudicator on this message board when you carry on like this? how can you lecture me on netiquette after that?
FFS this is not about the club or the management of the club or even the players, fans or fitness staff
as irel already explained, this is about the underlying barbs that posts by a small group of posters seem to contain - while seeming innocuous enough at face value, they are all back-handeds digs at the lions as a club
here's an example of one but there are many more...
Shane Johnson axed.
According to our CEO, its due to a budget review,and cost cutting in the football department.
marcus and lamby to add his player welfare manager job to their list of jobs.
ouch....Not good at all.Loyalty and doing the best job possible, means nothing.
was this neccessary? no
was this designed to get exactly the reaction it did? of course
the same person who criticises the club for losing money then criticises the club for any cost-cutting measures - there's a common theme...criticising the club!
ok, so some people enjoy stirring the pot and if you let that go, that's fine with me but to then jump all over the posters who react to the bait is to me, an appalling lack of judgement by a moderator
See my P.S in the post above beatnik. I agree with you on this.
beatnik
29 Sep 2006, 15:59
I still don't relate to it. I suspect my upbringing may play a part in that. We where taught to be independant in thinking and in thoughtful action. Maybe your right but...............:confused:
i dont mind a dedicated player welfare manager to be honest - it makes sense from a business point of view if nothing else...we invest a lot in these young kids and nothing wrong with shepherding them through a little to increase the chances of seeing a return
having said that, an old saying applies here "beggars cant be choosers"
either we're in the red and need to take some tough cost-savings measures
...
OR
...everything's peachy and we can throw money around ensuring that the players' 'wellness indicators' are high :rolleyes:
they cant argue it both ways....oh hang on a sec...they already have ;)
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 16:06
ok, so some people enjoy stirring the pot and if you let that go, that's fine with me but to then jump all over the posters who react to the bait is to me, an appalling lack of judgement by a moderator
Your choosing to decide the intent of the post was to stir the pot. Personally I didn't read it as that, nor having read it again after your post, do I even see it.
I do see someone expressing that in their opinion loyalty and hard work didn't mean anything in this case.
One thing I really ask people to consider is that intent is very often misread and even harder to convey on an internet message board. Without the aid of tone, looks on the face, gestures, sparkles in the eyes, whatever, it is very easy to misread and misinterpret intent and tone.
It does help if something is presented as 'im my opinion blah blah blah', instead of just 'blah blah blah' like fact. HOWEVER, everyone has a different grasp on the written english language and in emotional and heated discussions, the IMO part can very often by all parties be overlooked.
Please, just remember, you can't now nor will at any stage be able to control who posts what and how they express it, but you can control how you choose to respond to it. If you make the choice to respond to things in a way that has been asked by the moderator not to happen, or in a way that contravenes the rules and regulations, or the spirit of the discussion, then yes you will have words with the moderator.
In general, everyone is entitled to express their opinion unless the way in which they do it, or they content which they post is in contravention of the bigfooty rules.
Besides that, it is up to as individuals to choose who, how, what and when we respond to things. Live and let live folks. On all sides. Please.
Now back to the topic.........
But if the individuals are asked to quantify their posts and always fail and keep posting in like fashion then they must expect the consequences of their style of posting.
You are not going to get away from this one. Some of us are as passionate
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 16:13
But if the individuals are asked to quantify their posts and always fail and keep posting in like fashion then they must expect the consequences of their style of posting.
You are not going to get away from this one. Some of us are as passionate
And passionate doesn't give you any rights or privilages. Again, it is your choice how you respond. And that choice will have just as many consequences.
What I'm asking is that people on all sides make the right choices. And remind all sides they have just as much right to each in having opinions, however, bigfooty rules are that you discuss the issue, not the author, and that isn't about to change.
beatnik
29 Sep 2006, 16:45
and further to that kimp, and in response as well to your footy department clean out comment on the aker thread.........
See this is where the 'cost cutting' comment has me concerned. To be honest I keep focusing on two conversations I had with Matthews in the last few years after reading that Johnson was gone, 'cost cutting', and whatever the hell it is going on down there that Aker (who is not stupid, impulsive and self centric, yes, but stupid, no) has opened his mouth again and out has come what can only really be termed 'gossip', yet why would he say that without any semblence of substance?
I'm sure we all remember the reported deal when Matthews came to the Club.
Carte blance. Leigh as Director of Football Operations, Graeme Allan as Football Manager, Leigh as Senior Coach. Once Matthews started here, it was then every job up for grabs. Didn't matter if you'd been in it for 2 months or 10 years, were full time, part time, casual or volunteer. Everyone had the opporutnity to re-apply for their jobs and anyone outside had a chance to apply for them too. The department was overhauled head to toe. Facilities, equipment, personnel.
The end of the week that Starcevich left and other changes were announced last year, I asked Leigh how he was. He told me that it had been a hard week. He talked about the insular world of football that is even smaller on a club then football department basis. How close to people you become, how it's not just that person, but their family, their social circle, their families livliehood that are involved as well in changes. And he went on to say about that aside, decisions have to made. How weighing up options and looking at new strategies, and choosing the ones that would appear to work best come into it. And personal feelings have to be aside for the bigger picture of things in progress. It was a really good conversation.
More than a year earlier than that, we'd had a conversation about how the department worked/structure. Nothing formal, just one of those conversations that 'just happened'. He told me how he (as director of football) surrounded himself with the best of the best. That he simply trusted/believed that each and every person did their job to their best ability. And how each and everyone just expected/respected/accepted the same of each other. How if someone said they needed x piece of equipment or y piece of software, he believe it was the case as they were the best of the best and they got what they needed to perform their roles at their best.
Leigh has an incredible ability of bringing together a group of people that are very different, very talented and work together very well. People that in the day to day real/non-footy world, probably would never work together or even associate. Incredible working relationships and respect, that see them all get on, no matter how different they are as people.
I believe that these attitudes of his are a major part of our golden era. If we are now 'cost cutting' in this area, where does it leave us?
fantastic post danni - thanks for sharing your insight
the only thing i wasn't with you 100% on is your conclusion - that you're worried that the cost-cutting in this area will set us back
i was heartened by leigh's description of the review - he acknowledged the sense of loss that comes with change but also the longer-term good of refining and improving the structure
i think the Lions are in a holding pattern at the moment and there will be a few structural changes made within the organisation
i'm sure Leigh will draw just as much out of the next generation ;)
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 16:48
fantastic post danni - thanks for sharing your insight
the only thing i wasn't with you 100% on is your conclusion - that you're worried that the cost-cutting in this area will set us back
I can see where you are coming from there. Let me expand by saying.........
My concern lies in the fact that cost cutting has been given as the reason as opposed to say change of direction, restructuring of duties, trying a new approach etc etc......
Cost cutting lends to the conclusion that it's not being able to have the best of the best to do the best they can for our team because we can't afford to do that.
That worries me.
BigCat2
29 Sep 2006, 16:53
Cost cutting lends to the conclusion that it's not being able to have the best of the best to do the best they can for our team because we can't afford to do that.That worries me.
In the corporate world, unless cost cutting occurs strictly in the non-essential areas, or via scaling back people who were overpaid beforehand, will never achieve the desired result.
You've got to have the best people working, and you've got to trust their expertise in their own fields. Compared to the benefit they'll bring, their salary is really a very small cost.
Cost cutting usually reeks of people in high up positions losing sight of the vision, and only focusing on short term figures.
beatnik
29 Sep 2006, 17:02
And passionate doesn't give you any rights or privilages. Again, it is your choice how you respond. And that choice will have just as many consequences.
What I'm asking is that people on all sides make the right choices. And remind all sides they have just as much right to each in having opinions, however, bigfooty rules are that you discuss the issue, not the author, and that isn't about to change.
this is where i run into trouble :o
what is the appropriate way to raise objections to a 'style' of posting without using examples which identify the poster?
is it something that should be discussed via PM?
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 17:05
Sorry I forgot to add too......
It also concerns me because when we hired Matthews and knew the conditions (and they worked for us obviously with 01-03 in mind), we 'coudn't afford it' back then either. Hell an $850k loss in our first premiership year. We've heard alot about the contigency plans, the cash reserves (remember having enough cash on hand to pay players up front as an inducement to stay etc), the 'slush fund' of cash investments, I'm sure there is also a projected income from the new social club/pokies etc.
So even with a project big financial downturn this year, and the slush fund and even the Lions Foundation (you know, where you can leave money to the club in the will etc), the Lethal Lions coterie of millionaire businessmen supporters lending their expertise and their donations as well, it does send alarm bells ringing for me when 'cost cutting' is the reason given for a change in the most important department of our club. No team, no club. No competitive or successful team, no sponsors no members.
BigCat2
29 Sep 2006, 17:10
Given the huge amount of cash AFL has managed to rake in over the TV contract, I would've thought that cost cutting would be one of the last things on the minds of clubs. If I were in a position to decide, I'd say "look, our immediate financial situation is secure. Let's go full steam ahead and see how we can improve our organisation".
But then I've never been a CEO or Chairman either.
*Danni*
29 Sep 2006, 17:27
this is where i run into trouble :o
what is the appropriate way to raise objections to a 'style' of posting without using examples which identify the poster?
is it something that should be discussed via PM?
In general yes, any issues should be addressed to a moderator or admin via pm or email. It certainly doesn't do any good to have bitch-fights on the boards. If anything it can make the situation worse.
The thing to remember is that it is your choice what apprach you use to respond. You don't like the style someone is posting in? You can choose to ignore the style and address the topic and points raised, or you can choose to have a go at the person for posting in that style and annoying you. One of those choices contravenes the bigfooty rules. You make that choice and you'll end up having words with the mod.
Poster says for example from this thread something like "hard work and loyalty counts for nothing"
Replying posters choices are something like:
You can address the issue.....
"I'm not sure where you are coming from there and I don't agree with you because blah blah blah......"
Or you can address the posting style/author:
"for crying out loud when are you going to give this up and stop trying to discredit the club"
which is a reply assuming intent and going the author not the issue.
Personally I am really well and truly over seeing this played out on the boards so I would ask that pm's or emails to me be sent instead of taking this further in the thread.
Thanks.
scott522
29 Sep 2006, 20:42
Maybe I am old fashioned in my way of thinking - but cost-cutting when there has been a loss should start from the top = ceo...down the line, board etc. The money for essential staff and player group should always be there.
Maybe I am old fashioned in my way of thinking - but cost-cutting when there has been a loss should start from the top = ceo...down the line, board etc. The money for essential staff and player group should always be there.
I wouldn't call this old-fashioned, so much as never-fashioned. The bottom has always been where the cuts hit first because it's the people at the top making them.