View Full Version : Collins End Of Carlton
chimpreo
28 Sep 2006, 16:06
This man has destroyed our club. Came in, moved us out of Optus Oval completely after we just built a new stand when we should be playing at least 4 games their per year. Hires a mediocre board and runs the club into the ground.
This man then later on resigned and the next person in line Smorgon has taken the club even lower than before.
No-one wants to be at carlton, No-one wants to go to Carlton, Memberships wont be renewed, Let our young good prospects leave, Have its Internal talks such as Contracts of Players and Coach released to the public.
Im almost ashamed to be a member of this once proud club.
GET RID OF THIS Sh*T BOARD AND GET SOME REAL CARLTON PEOPLE IN THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
believe me, im still not happy that we moved to the Telstra Dome - our record shows that we are 10-27 playing there
Errrrr Yep, moving our home games away from Princes Park is the route of our evil:rolleyes:
Get real, look at the big picture.
i didnt say it was lol...i was merely pointing out that im not happy that we moved
Monty Burns
28 Sep 2006, 17:40
I'm disgusted in our so-called "movers & shakers" out there who aren't willing to put their hands up at this stage.
You look at the Magpies, in the late 90's and Eddie stepped up to the plate....total respect for the guy, as it was always going to be tough for him to revamp the place but he had the guts to do it.
It seems our financially astute and business & marketing savvy "supporters" don't want to do it at this stage "cos it's too hard" - effing soft c**ks.
Seriously, if ever there was a time to do it - it's RIGHT NOW. Yes - it will be hard - but we can only go up from here, and that person will get the rewards forever, for re-building the club.
In fact it doesn't take a genius to work out that the natural progression of a club at the bottom (in this era of drafts & salary caps) is that the bottom clubs will always improve on the field.
With on field success - the off field success will naturally follow.
Blue Thunder
28 Sep 2006, 18:24
I'm disgusted in our so-called "movers & shakers" out there who aren't willing to put their hands up at this stage.
You look at the Magpies, in the late 90's and Eddie stepped up to the plate....total respect for the guy, as it was always going to be tough for him to revamp the place but he had the guts to do it.
It seems our financially astute and business & marketing savvy "supporters" don't want to do it at this stage "cos it's too hard" - effing soft c**ks.
Seriously, if ever there was a time to do it - it's RIGHT NOW. Yes - it will be hard - but we can only go up from here, and that person will get the rewards forever, for re-building the club.
In fact it doesn't take a genius to work out that the natural progression of a club at the bottom (in this era of drafts & salary caps) is that the bottom clubs will always improve on the field.
With on field success - the off field success will naturally follow.
With you completely on this Monty, what a dissapointment they all are. I just wish that someone with some clout would stand up and do something, this club is looking like a laughing stock and is so far from where it once was it is not funny.
chimpreo
28 Sep 2006, 19:05
Someone with balls needs to stand up and take control of our club. Someone that knows Football and someone that knows about money.
Until we find that someone as a few of you guys said. We are and will still remain the AFL's laughing stock
TheGeneral
28 Sep 2006, 19:23
Elliott
Daylight
Collins.
drusswaylander
28 Sep 2006, 19:37
Yeah totally agree. Elliott was just misunderstood and left our club in great shape:D
chimpreo
28 Sep 2006, 19:45
at least he was a carlton person
drusswaylander
28 Sep 2006, 19:52
Totally..ruin the club, but it's okay. I'm a Carlton person:D
Makes all the difference:thumbsu:
Andyt30
28 Sep 2006, 20:01
THE Afl must have a check list to see what next they will try to get into debt :) their jsut trying to get rid of victorian Clubs their 2 i recond should be next inline :D
mediumsizered
28 Sep 2006, 20:24
Elliott
Daylight
Collins.
Elliott was an '80s man. Unfortunately the '80s are long gone. He thought he could call the AFL's bluff by going ahead and building the Legends Stand. All that has achieved is leaving the club in massive debt. Ian Collins was the only person prepared to put his hand up and run against Elliott. He had nothing to gain from doing that. He did it for the club. Anyone that doubts Collins' ability as an administrator should look no further than the way he turned Colonial Stadium/Telstra Dome from a financial basket case into a viable asset. Let's not forget in his time at Carlton $5million was paid off our debt. How much of that debt do you think Elliott would have got paid off? He would have denied there was any debt.
2centsworth
28 Sep 2006, 20:34
I think there is 6 board members up for re-election at this years AGM.
We need a strong leader for a united board to stand behind not just a rich person looking to glorify themself.
Being a voting member I am hoping someone will put up their hand to guide the club through the bad times ahead with a clear buisness plan and a united board with no factions or leaks.
Can we clone George Harris LOL. He must have been ok, he still has a stand named after him.:D
elgranto
28 Sep 2006, 20:44
totally agree. carlton is not actually in that bad a shape financially. the main issue is cash flow which is why they are asking for help from the powers. that is why a short term loan is the answer. once we get the right people in charge and some belief in our board, the money side of things will look after itself. there are still quite a lot of powerful carlton investors not wanting to waste their money now. some recent proof of this is brisbane... 15 years ago they were kept alive on a prayer, now they are the richest afl club, over $12mil in the bank (yes cash!), collingwood is another example, 8 years ago they were insolvent more than any club has been (in relation to assets), now they are the victorian superpower.
the best thing to do is get memberships for you, your partner, everyone you know. then lets get the right people running the club and with the talent we are building on the field it will all work out great!
elgranto
28 Sep 2006, 20:45
Can we clone George Harris LOL. He must have been ok, he still has a stand named after him.:D
so did john elliott
TheGeneral
28 Sep 2006, 21:11
Yeah totally agree. Elliott was just misunderstood and left our club in great shape:D
My post was referring to Elliott's ability to destroy a club. ;)
Collins put his hand and he was the only Carlton identity who had the profile who could get rid of Jack. But that's the only thing he achieved as President and he was working for Carlton when we were breached the cap in the nineties.
Did Collins do a thorough review of Pagan's coaching before re-signing him to another generous contract?
elgranto
28 Sep 2006, 21:30
at the time of pagan new contract, we had won 10 games the prev year, won the wi cup, had fev and lance footy turned around. plus kids like thornton, walker, fisher etc looking like devoloping and the likes of lappin, kouta, stevens doing there job as leaders. that is a huge cange from 2002 when he took over so it was not a bad move at the time. i dont recall anyone complaining then!
TheGeneral
28 Sep 2006, 21:40
Fisher only played seven games that year, Walker was tagging, Lance had an average year for the money he was on and should have been traded for picks , Lappin had a poor year because he was sooking and Kouta and Stevens haven't lead anyone.
Russell's Captain ran away after he was decked this year! :thumbsd:
The proof is in the pudding and apart from Simmo, Walker and Fev, we haven't improved from where we at last year and the board wanted to sack Pagan. He must be doing well and improving our kids if his best mate Elshaugh was chopped.
Yep, theres someone out there who could have made us millions and won us two , maybe three flags instead of the spoons. Oh well, the main thing is we are now in a position to start rising agin having done the hard work we should sack everyone, again, and put some idiot in place who can take all the glory for the pain we've gone through.......its like Plato's Republic around here what with all the well considered logic comments.
I keep hearing that Ahmad Fahour keeps being asked but keeps turning downs pleas to join the board, and then one day take over as president. Unfortunately, his duties at the NAB keep him too busy for this.
Hopefully Greg Lee can become a bit more of a "face" at Carlton and look at taking over the presidency from Smorgon sooner rather than later.
drusswaylander
29 Sep 2006, 08:28
totally agree. carlton is not actually in that bad a shape financially. the main issue is cash flow which is why they are asking for help from the powers. that is why a short term loan is the answer. once we get the right people in charge and some belief in our board, the money side of things will look after itself. there are still quite a lot of powerful carlton investors not wanting to waste their money now. some recent proof of this is brisbane... 15 years ago they were kept alive on a prayer, now they are the richest afl club, over $12mil in the bank (yes cash!), collingwood is another example, 8 years ago they were insolvent more than any club has been (in relation to assets), now they are the victorian superpower.
the best thing to do is get memberships for you, your partner, everyone you know. then lets get the right people running the club and with the talent we are building on the field it will all work out great!
The Lions weren't competing with nine other clubs in Victoria to open up revenue streams.They also had salary cap concessions which helped them build and importantly retain such a great list which then due to on-field success had financial flow ons.
We don't have an Eddie Maguire. For all that he is an arrogant so and so he turned that club around. Shame it was the enemy:D
The Carlton brand name was hammered by the cheating. No-one in the corporate world wants to be associated with that baggage and subsequent idiocy by the club has hurt us even more.
My wife is a Bomber. So I don't think she will go for a Blues membership:D I bought memberships for the cat and the dog:eek: , bought the overpriced stuff from the Blues shop that I didn't need, but I won't this season. I will renew my membership, but until I think we have someone at the helm who seems capable I'll be holding back on the extras. Blind faith can only take you so far:(
If the powerful investers think it is a waste of money now. Why should we waste ours as well?
drusswaylander
29 Sep 2006, 08:33
I keep hearing that Ahmad Fahour keeps being asked but keeps turning downs pleas to join the board, and then one day take over as president. Unfortunately, his duties at the NAB keep him too busy for this.
Hopefully Greg Lee can become a bit more of a "face" at Carlton and look at taking over the presidency from Smorgon sooner rather than later.
Ahmad has conflict of interest issues as well, because our main debt is to the NAB. Don't expect him on the board until that is paid off:eek:
drusswaylander
29 Sep 2006, 08:40
There has to be a white knight out there somewhere who doesn't have a conflict of interest, has charisma without being dodgy, has money that they are willing to invest, has a business brain, has a clear vision for the Blues and most important of all loves our club:thumbsu:
Expressions of interest should be forwarded to the Carlton football club ASAP:D
mediumsizered
29 Sep 2006, 08:40
Fisher only played seven games that year, Walker was tagging, Lance had an average year for the money he was on and should have been traded for picks , Lappin had a poor year because he was sooking and Kouta and Stevens haven't lead anyone.
Russell's Captain ran away after he was decked this year! :thumbsd:
The proof is in the pudding and apart from Simmo, Walker and Fev, we haven't improved from where we at last year and the board wanted to sack Pagan. He must be doing well and improving our kids if his best mate Elshaugh was chopped.
Let's put this statement into perspective. Lance finished 3rd in the B & F last year. The 2 players ahead of him? Kouta (the highest paid player at the club), Stevens (the 2nd highest paid player at the club). So if you rank players' performances on where they sit in the contract stakes, Campo should probably have been 3rd in the B & F and then Lance. To put it further in perspective, Lance was given a lesser contract, but took his game to another level this season & won the B & F. He will be offered the captaincy next season ahead of the 2 players that will be the highest paid (Stevens & Fevola) and will prove to be a very good leader.
Lance is a Carlton man, through & through. You don't trade those types, you trade those that don't have such an emotional link to the club. There are a couple of players that fit that criteria and one of them should have been traded at the end of last year when he still had some value.
Monty Burns
29 Sep 2006, 09:33
[quote=drusswaylander]
The Carlton brand name was hammered by the cheating. No-one in the corporate world wants to be associated with that baggage and subsequent idiocy by the club has hurt us even more.
Essendon rorted the cap and were lost draft picks (not sure about a fine) in the late 90's - the same occurred with Melbourne. I don't think they have any trouble achieving sponsorship targets.
The difference is that they have been successful ON-FIELD since then. If you look like you'll be successful, it's easy to get sponsorship money.
I keep hearing that Ahmad Fahour keeps being asked but keeps turning downs pleas to join the board, and then one day take over as president. Unfortunately, his duties at the NAB keep him too busy for this.
Hopefully Greg Lee can become a bit more of a "face" at Carlton and look at taking over the presidency from Smorgon sooner rather than later.
Ahmed will never be Carlton President whilst he is CEO at the NAB. He is also very good friends with Smorgan.
Lance is a Carlton man, through & through. You don't trade those types, you trade those that don't have such an emotional link to the club.
too right mate! well said!
Kenny Hunter
29 Sep 2006, 14:22
Lets get one thing clear , when John Elliot came to power at the Carlton F.C, as the president , we(Carlton ) were one of the powerhouses of the League.
When Elliot exited we had just won our first wooden spoon, lost our draft picks for cheating and we were broke
So make sure u direct the blame to the right person , John Elliot, Mr i send everything bankrupt
With us moving away from Princess Park , we had to grow . I would have preferred the MCG instead of Dome
drusswaylander
29 Sep 2006, 18:09
Lets get one thing clear , when John Elliot came to power at the Carlton F.C, as the president , we(Carlton ) were one of the powerhouses of the League.
When Elliot exited we had just won our first wooden spoon, lost our draft picks for cheating and we were broke
So make sure u direct the blame to the right person , John Elliot, Mr i send everything bankrupt
With us moving away from Princess Park , we had to grow . I would have preferred the MCG instead of Dome
Hear, hear:thumbsu:
drusswaylander
29 Sep 2006, 18:20
[quote=drusswaylander]
The Carlton brand name was hammered by the cheating. No-one in the corporate world wants to be associated with that baggage and subsequent idiocy by the club has hurt us even more.
Essendon rorted the cap and were lost draft picks (not sure about a fine) in the late 90's - the same occurred with Melbourne. I don't think they have any trouble achieving sponsorship targets.
The difference is that they have been successful ON-FIELD since then. If you look like you'll be successful, it's easy to get sponsorship money.
Unfortunately mate those clubs did not garner the negative press we did. How many of the general public even know that other clubs rorted the cap?
Our penalties were the harshest handed down to stop what the AFL saw as systematic rorting by some clubs and so it was a huge story:thumbsd: We were the example to the rest of the clubs as we were the worst offenders.
The trade penalties were so much harsher for us because of what we lost in terms of talent. Essendon especially were riding high when they were caught. A bottom club losing their picks is much worse a penalty than a top club. If we had been caught two years earlier our recovery would have been much quicker sadly:(
mediumsizered
29 Sep 2006, 23:12
Lets get one thing clear , when John Elliot came to power at the Carlton F.C, as the president , we(Carlton ) were one of the powerhouses of the League.
When Elliot exited we had just won our first wooden spoon, lost our draft picks for cheating and we were broke
So make sure u direct the blame to the right person , John Elliot, Mr i send everything bankrupt
With us moving away from Princess Park , we had to grow . I would have preferred the MCG instead of Dome
You've summed it up pretty well, Kenny. The success of the '80s & to a lesser extent the '90s was built on the foundations put in place by the Harris administration. Those foundations were well and truly washed away in the last decade of the Elliott administration. Elliott is a passionate Carlton man but he spent too long in denial and we as supporters are suffering because of his head in the sand attitude.