What would you want for Ash McGrath? [Archive]

konstas_87

29 Sep 2006, 12:17

does he?
ive heard rumours but does he REALLY plan to leave?

itd be a shame because we've put the 80-90 games into him, stuck by him as a crumbing forward through inconsistency, etc.
he's just running into the prime of his career where he may start performing regularly. so i doubt we'd let him go for nothing.

having said that i hope he stays, he is our number 1 small forward, way ahead of Corrie, Hooper, Harding, etc.

BigCat2

29 Sep 2006, 12:33

konstas, you make a good case for why we should try and keep him. However, if all our attempts fail, we should look to get good value for him through trading.

I reckon we might be interested in one of the less established midfielders at West Coast (not Fletcher). Somebody with pace and good disposal, with room for improvement sounds like a good deal. You guys have an abundance of midfielders, so you're more likely to part with one of them. A later draft pick may be thrown in to balance the deal, depending on who the player is.

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 12:34

does he?
ive heard rumours but does he REALLY plan to leave?
That's what it sounds like.

When guys decide that they want to go home, their club tends to get a little bit screwed.

FattyLumpkin

29 Sep 2006, 12:57

How bout we throw in Beau Mc too & take Dean Cox !

Or maybe just Hunter for McGrath.

Don't think you guys have an idiot involved at the trade table though!

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 13:03

I reckon we might be interested in one of the less established midfielders at West Coast (not Fletcher). Somebody with pace and good disposal, with room for improvement sounds like a good deal. You guys have an abundance of midfielders, so you're more likely to part with one of them.Who are you talking about?

Matt Rosa?

BigCat2

29 Sep 2006, 13:07

I can't say for sure. I haven't watched the Eagles nearly enough in recent times to make comments about exact players.

xplo

29 Sep 2006, 13:24

That's what it sounds like.

When guys decide that they want to go home, their club tends to get a little bit screwed.

No screwing will be going on here, either with McGrath or Moody. I reckon you'll find that after 3 months of the Jackassmanis thing, they won't rolling over for anyone. We're in a rebuilding phase, so if he doesn't play, it's not costing us a flag.

If he wants to go, there'd need to be an appropriate deal. If he wants to try the PSD, good luck with that.

Most likely a player swap if anything. Rosa or Spangher would be my picks.

campbell

29 Sep 2006, 13:32

Anyone know what happened with Corrie?

konstas_87

29 Sep 2006, 13:55

Anyone know what happened with Corrie?
in what sense? is he out of contract?

i think he ll be given another shot.

campbell

29 Sep 2006, 13:57

in what sense? is he out of contract?

i think he ll be given another shot.
There was talk of him going a month or so ago.

notting18

29 Sep 2006, 13:59

For ash mcgrath u would want the same as what is being spoken about for aker... second round and a player or there abouts he has 8 great years of footy left in him

dlanod

29 Sep 2006, 14:05

There was some mention of him getting put back on the rookie list (somehow?) given he'll miss most of next season due to injury.

campbell

29 Sep 2006, 14:09

There was some mention of him getting put back on the rookie list (somehow?) given he'll miss most of next season due to injury.
How does that work????

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 14:58

For ash mcgrath u would want the same as what is being spoken about for aker... second round and a player or there abouts he has 8 great years of footy left in himPfffttt.... dreaming.

joshhem

29 Sep 2006, 15:14

For ash, I would want Adam Selwood. I think this is a fair enough trade too.

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 15:21

For ash, I would want Adam Selwood. I think this is a fair enough trade too.Not if Ash McGrath wants to leave. You won't get as much for him.

Adam Selwood is in our best 22. There's no guarantee that Ash McGrath would be.

SDG72

29 Sep 2006, 15:47

Not if Ash McGrath wants to leave. You won't get as much for him.

Adam Selwood is in our best 22. There's no guarantee that Ash McGrath would be.

As said before if a Western Australian club want a Brisbane player they will have to deal or pass, I think Brisbane will not be held to ransome, if a player wants to leave that much they can try the pre season draft.

konstas_87

29 Sep 2006, 15:48

Not if Ash McGrath wants to leave. You won't get as much for him.

Adam Selwood is in our best 22. There's no guarantee that Ash McGrath would be.
hes still our player, hes welcome to try the PSD and end up at carlton...

you guys as good as your midfield is dONT have a small forward, and he's played his 90 games and ready to step up.
he'd slot right in IMO.

captain_obscure

29 Sep 2006, 15:56

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 16:08

I think Brisbane will not be held to ransome, if a player wants to leave that much they can try the pre season draft.hes still our player, hes welcome to try the PSD and end up at carlton...I don't think Brisbane are going to let him go into the PSD. Then you'd get nothing. That's the worst outcome for you guys.

I'm not saying WC would give you nothing for McGrath. But in this situation, Brisbane is in the weaker negotiating position. That's undeniable.

The fact that McGrath is a WA boy and apparently wants to go home means you'll get less than what you would otherwise. It sucks, but that's the reality and there's not much you can do apart from persuading him to stay.

So you're not going to get a young best 22 WC player (like Selwood, Butler or Waters) in a straight swap. Just shelve that idea.

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 16:10

From a Brisbane perspective we should probably be looking at one WCE's abundance of running midfielders with development left in them e.g Rosa, Sam Butler, Waters, also don't mind the look of Brett Jones in defence. How do WC supporters rate these players?Rosa is the guy from that list who we'd be most likely to trade.

Although he's a Victorian and has been mentioned in trades for Chris Tarrant.

Forget about Butler, Selwood and Waters. You'd have to sweeten the deal to get any of those guys.

If McGrath wants to return to WA, you'll have to settle for minimising your losses. You're in a weak negotiating position.

If you can't persuade McGrath to stay, you'll either accept the offer of Freo or WC - which will probably be short of what you think McGrath is worth - or lose him for nothing in the PSD.

This is what happens when a player wants out. It sucks. You get what you can and move on. You certainly don't stamp your foot and force him into the PSD and get nothing in return. That's stupid.

sherminator

29 Sep 2006, 16:16

captain_obscure

29 Sep 2006, 16:27

The nature of BF (fans discussing their own players) means that it is hard to get objective discussion or agreement on the fair value of players. IMO a straight swap for Butler is not outrageous, although i agree we would have to sweeten a deal for Waters.

McGrath would walk into your starting 18 as a small forward and ****s all over Armstrong.

I don't agree that the Lions are bent over a barrel in any discussion over Ash's future, if he wants to go West (I'm not totally convinced that he does) then he will have to be traded, there is absolutely no way he can get there via the PSD, therefore a trade will have to be organised which can satisfy all 3 parties.

beatnik

29 Sep 2006, 16:28

Rosa is the guy from that list who we'd be most likely to trade.

Although he's a Victorian and has been mentioned in trades for Chris Tarrant.

Forget about Butler, Selwood and Waters. You'd have to sweeten the deal to get any of those guys.

If McGrath wants to return to WA, you'll have to settle for minimising your losses. You're in a weak negotiating position.

If you can't persuade McGrath to stay, you'll either accept the offer of Freo or WC - which will probably be short of what you think McGrath is worth - or lose him for nothing in the PSD.

This is what happens when a player wants out. It sucks. You get what you can and move on. You certainly don't stamp your foot and force him into the PSD and get nothing in return. That's stupid.

back it up, gunnar no-one's stamping any feet

i agree with you that we are in a weaker negotiating position if mcgrath wants to 'go home' (and i look forward to your support the next time a Collingwood feral is denying that Brisbane deserve a retention allowance :D )

i rate mcgrath very highly (of course) but i rate adam selwood very highly too so i can accept the Eagles wouldn't go for a straight swap

not sure how to sweeten though...adding moody would be too much

ok what about:

mcgrath and pick #22

for

selwood and pick #35

all hypothetical of course ;)

dlanod

29 Sep 2006, 16:32

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 16:34

IMO a straight swap for Butler is not outrageous, although i agree we would have to sweeten a deal for Waters.Butler has leap-frogged Fletcher and RoJo in our midfield pecking order.

Since returning from injury in R13, he's averaged 23 touches pg and hasn't missed a game.

Has had a very good finals series as well. Will turn 21 in January.

Butler is a natural centreman and will be a gun. He's the guy most likely to replace Cousins.

A Butler for McGrath swap would represent a royal shafting for the Eagles. No doubt about it.
I don't agree that the Lions are bent over a barrel in any discussion over Ash's future, if he wants to go West (I'm not totally convinced that he does) then he will have to be traded, there is absolutely no way he can get there via the PSD, therefore a trade will have to be organised which can satisfy all 3 parties.Wishful thinking.

If you can't persuade him to stay, you'll take what you can get because it's better than nothing.

Don't pretend you're in a strong position. When a player decides they want out, their club gets burnt.

BigCat2

29 Sep 2006, 16:39

If the PSD is on the table then Ash would end up with a choice between convincing a WA club to put a decent offer on the table, go into the PSD and chances are ending up at a Victorian club, or staying with the Lions. Since he'd be trying to get home, I'm guessing he'd rather stay with the Lions than end up in Victoria. Net result: decent offer or we'll probably re-sign him.

Agreed. Gunnar Longshanks, I don't think we're that much of a weaker bargaining position just because a player wants to go home.

If Ash's attitude was "give me a decent contract or I'm packing my bags", then yeah, we might have to settle for a lesser deal, rather than risking not getting anything at all. Nick Stevens is a perfect example of this. The player in question and his manager will try their hardest to make sure a deal is agreed by the 2 clubs.

There's 3 possible scenarios for McGrath in 2007
1. He'll get traded to a club he wants to go
2. He'll walk out on the club can get picked up in PSD
3. He'll agree to a new contract with Brisbane

Now the club doesn't want to get rid of him, so ideally the Lions are thinking scenario 3. McGrath wants scenario 1, so he'll hope for either WCE or Freo to offer up an acceptable trade for Brisbane. If the deal falls through, McGrath would stick with scenario 3, and rather play on with Brisbane, and either concede that he won't end up in WA, or bide his time until next time round.

He's a required player by the club, and only wants to go to a WA club, both of which have very low PSD picks. Scenario 2 will never happen.

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 16:40

ok what about:

mcgrath and pick #22

for

selwood and pick #35
Not too interested in that.

I don't think you're going to be satisfied with what you get for McGrath.

I think WC or Freo will end up getting him for a bargain. That's not what you guys want to hear, but that's what happens when a player shoots through.

Once a guy decides he wants out, their original club tends to get shafted.

I'd be reluctant to offer Brisbane any of the players that they'd probably want: Butler, Waters or Selwood.

I expect WC to move guys like Gardiner, McDougall and Gaspar on this post-season.

So maybe McDougall and pick 20-something for McGrath.

If you can't persuade McGrath to stay, then you're not going to do much better than that.

xplo

29 Sep 2006, 16:40

Gunnar, I don't think Ash is that high in our drafting priorities.

That said, I would personally seriously look at Matty Rosa. He's 19, a midfielder tallish and has already left home, so Brisbane shouldn't be too difficult a move. He's the sort of bloke we could probably use.

BigCat2

29 Sep 2006, 16:41

Don't pretend you're in a strong position. When a player decides they want out, their club gets burnt.

Gunnar Longshanks, I know you've said this a few times over, but could you please explain to me why this would be the case. I've read some insightful posts of yours on other boards, so I hope you'll be able to clear it up for me.

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 16:45

Gunnar Longshanks, I don't think we're that much of a weaker bargaining position just because a player wants to go home.
Then you're kidding yourself.

No offence - but you are.

If Ash's attitude was "give me a decent contract or I'm packing my bags", then yeah, we might have to settle for a lesser deal, rather than risking not getting anything at all.What if his attitude is "I don't want to play for Brisbane anymore. Trade me to WA or I'll go in the PSD and you'll get nothing"?

Now the club doesn't want to get rid of him, so ideally the Lions are thinking scenario 3. McGrath wants scenario 1, so he'll hope for either WCE or Freo to offer up an acceptable trade for Brisbane. If the deal falls through, McGrath would stick with scenario 3, and rather play on with Brisbane, and either concede that he won't end up in WA, or bide his time until next time round.Wishful thinking.

When a player decides they want to go home, their current club inevitably gets shafted.

The fact that you don't think you're in a weaker negotiating position suggests to me you're just burying your head in the sand on this one.

If McGrath wants out, and demands to be traded to WA, you're not going to get what you want.

BigCat2

29 Sep 2006, 16:50

Gunnar Longshanks, I know you've said this a few times over, but could you please explain to me why this would be the case. I've read some insightful posts of yours on other boards, so I hope you'll be able to clear it up for me.

I know it's poor form to quote oneself, but I'm disappointed that you didn't answer my question or try to explain this to me. You say that I'm going by wishful thinking - you're perfectly entitled to make such claims. Just please point out exactly why that's wishful thinking on my part, and which parts of my argument were flawed because of my bias towards my club, or some other logical fault. I'd appreciate if you can point out my faults so I can learn from it.

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 16:57

Gunnar Longshanks, I know you've said this a few times over, but could you please explain to me why this would be the case. I've read some insightful posts of yours on other boards, so I hope you'll be able to clear it up for me.If McGrath says "I don't want to play with you anymore - trade me to WA", Brisbane can either comply, or they can make it tough for the player.

If they try to block McGrath's passage to WA, they risk losing him for nothing. Blocking the move back home can also make a player so dirty he becomes even more convinced that his future lies elsewhere, to the point where he is prepared to go in the PSD rather than stay at Brisbane.

Brisbane have to hope they can convince him to stay. If they can't, then you're basically forced to take what you can get from the WA sides. What's the alternative? Play hardball and watch him walk into the PSD? That's the worst outcome. This is assuming that attempts to retain McGrath have failed.

If you comply with McGrath's wishes and start talking to the WA clubs, you're in a worse situation than if you were sending a Victorian player home.

There are only two clubs in WA, so there's not going to be a bidding war to drive the price up. Freo and WC will know that they're the only clubs in the running, and they'll know that Brisbane want to do a deal, because, as I've outlined, the alternative is McGrath going for nothing.

So that puts WC and Freo in very strong bargaining positions. They'll offer something reasonably fair, but not something that's going to satisfy many Brisbane people. They're not going to say "here's pick 50, take it or leave it."

But maybe something like a fringe player and pick 20-something. On a more level playing field, Brisbane would probably haggle. But they won't be in a position to do that, because they want to do a deal with a WA club, and the WA clubs know that.

Brisbane will then have a choice: "do we take what's on offer, even though it's not great, or do we let McGrath go for nothing?"

Brisbane will take what's on offer. It won't be terrible. But they'll be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.

That's the way these things unfold. It sucks.

captain_obscure

29 Sep 2006, 17:03

Butler has leap-frogged Fletcher and RoJo in our midfield pecking order.

Since returning from injury in R13, he's averaged 23 touches pg and hasn't missed a game.

Has had a very good finals series as well. Will turn 21 in January.

Butler is a natural centreman and will be a gun. He's the guy most likely to replace Cousins.

A Butler for McGrath swap would represent a royal shafting for the Eagles. No doubt about it.

Didn't realise Butler had been quite that good, no wonder i liked the look of him, ;) however the fact remains that you have a plethora of midfield options and a dearth of forwards, a definciency which Ash would more than adequately cover.

Wishful thinking.

If you can't persuade him to stay, you'll take what you can get because it's better than nothing.

Don't pretend you're in a strong position. When a player decides they want out, their club gets burnt.

Perhaps we are both thinking wishfully;) .
The reason stated for Ash leaving is that he 'wants to go home' so i seriously doubt that he will enter the PSD if he can't get a trade organised, IMO he is more likely to re-sign with the Lions for a year and then try to get home at the end of next season. Obviously this would help nobody and the club wouldn't want a player on their list who doesn't want to be there 100% but i think the Lions would prefer this to getting shafted.

BigCat2

29 Sep 2006, 17:03

Cheers. :thumbsu:

If we get somebody and pick 20-odd for McGrath, I won't be that disappointed to be honest. I know we've already invested 5 or so good years of development in him, he hasn't been able to produce consistently even though at various stages in those 5 years he has looked like he'll step up and become that consistent small forward who'll kick 30+ goals every year.

Apart from the draft where the players have no say in where they go, the player will have to want to stay there. The club can try to convince the player to stay by developing a good culture, having the right people, enjoying onfield success (like how we managed to keep our group together in 2001-2004) etc, but if the player wants to leave, they'll leave most of the time.

You can do all the preparation you like, like determining how much of a factor 'go home' will be when contemplating a draftee, but there's no guarantee there won't be a change of heart later on. The recruitment department of a club can only do so much, but there's never any guarantees.

Edit: oh and you think that McGrath may contemplate going to PSD given that he really wants to leave Brisbane. I think that McGrath will either go to WA or stay here next year. I'm happy to agree to disagree here. :)

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 17:06

That said, I would personally seriously look at Matty Rosa. He's 19, a midfielder tallish and has already left home, so Brisbane shouldn't be too difficult a move. He's the sort of bloke we could probably use.
Rosa is the obvious one.

He's been discussed in a possible trade for Tarrant, so he might be a Collingwood player by the time McGrath gets put on the table.

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 17:10

Didn't realise Butler had been quite that good, no wonder i liked the look of him, ;) however the fact remains that you have a plethora of midfield options and a dearth of forwards, a definciency which Ash would more than adequately cover.Butler's not going anywhere. Sorry.

Perhaps we are both thinking wishfully;) .
The reason stated for Ash leaving is that he 'wants to go home' so i seriously doubt that he will enter the PSD if he can't get a trade organised, IMO he is more likely to re-sign with the Lions for a year and then try to get home at the end of next season. Obviously this would help nobody and the club wouldn't want a player on their list who doesn't want to be there 100% but i think the Lions would prefer this to getting shafted.Well this is where it becomes a case of bluff and double-bluff.

The Lions will be thinking "bad luck for McGrath - he doesn't want to go to Victoria. We can't do a trade with the WA sides, so Ash can just stay put."

There's no iron-clad way of predicting how McGrath would react to this.

He might bite the bullet and say "oh well - Brisbane's not so bad. I'll re-sign".

Or he might say "Screw Brisbane - I wanted to go home and these pricks stymied me. I'm outta here."

BigCat2

29 Sep 2006, 17:12

There's no iron-clad way of predicting how McGrath would react to this.

He might bite the bullet and say "oh well - Brisbane's not so bad. I'll re-sign".

Or he might say "Screw Brisbane - I wanted to go home and these pricks stymied me. I'm outta here."

Given the (variable) amount we know about him as a person, which is more likely?

Gunnar Longshanks

29 Sep 2006, 17:15

Given the (variable) amount we know about him as a person, which is more likely?Who knows?

That's the thing about the trade period.

If McGrath doesn't get what he wants, then it could leave him so sour that staying in Brisbane is no longer an option.

It's a very delicate situation.

captain_obscure

29 Sep 2006, 17:15

Butler's not going anywhere. Sorry.
Go on trade him to us, you know you want to.:p :D

Well this is where it becomes a case of bluff and double-bluff.

The Lions will be thinking "bad luck for McGrath - he doesn't want to go to Victoria. We can't do a trade with the WA sides, so Ash can just stay put."

There's no iron-clad way of predicting how McGrath would react to this.

He might bite the bullet and say "oh well - Brisbane's not so bad. I'll re-sign".

Or he might say "Screw Brisbane - I wanted to go home and these pricks stymied me. I'm outta here."
Agreed Gunnar, which means that nothing is guaranteed and we won't actually know for a couple of weeks yet. Supporters from either club are likely to have different opinions on players/trades because of their subjective views. Fun to discuss though.:thumbsu:

dlanod

29 Sep 2006, 17:48

I foresee twelve more pages of:

"Brisbane want to take two rookies and some gum off the bottom of a Subiaco seat for McGrath because they don't want to get nothing."
versus
"McGrath doesn't want to go to Victoria in the PSD so WA better give us their first two draft picks and a promising midfielder this year or he'll stay in Brisbane."

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Quigley

29 Sep 2006, 18:14

One factor that you are not taking into account Gunnar is the "I just want to get the chance to play" factor that a lot of the young guys sitting behind the Eagles midfield will be experiencing. We had it up here when we were at the top and lost quite a few guys we would love now (eg Bolton, Gram) because they couldn't get in the first team and forced their way onto a team where they would get a chance.

They may look at Brisbane and think - same climate, good coach, opportunities to play - include me please. Wishful thinking maybe but it should not be discounted.

For me I don't think McGrath has the same value this year as last when he had picked up 35 goals for the year and looked to be developing well. That being said he is still our best small forward option and I don't think the Lions will give him away for nothing. I would think a young prospect looking for a chance to play and a third rounder or a early second / late first would probably get it done.

TheBrownDog

29 Sep 2006, 18:50

This topics are useless unless people accept that to get something of value you have to give something of value.

Grimreepah

29 Sep 2006, 21:08

I think McGrath would be worth pick 30 or so. I actually think he has at times been unfairly criticised during the year (probably realised this more in hindsight as I was one of those being too critical) because it is hard for a small forward to be consistent in an inconsistent side.

I would rather keep McGrath, who is in my starting lineup, than Moody, partly because he has that extra experience.

Gunnar Longshanks

30 Sep 2006, 11:54

One factor that you are not taking into account Gunnar is the "I just want to get the chance to play" factor that a lot of the young guys sitting behind the Eagles midfield will be experiencing.Who are you talking about?

WC basically play 14 midfielders every game, so those young blokes (Selwood, Butler, Waters, Rosa) are getting games.

You're talking about players "sitting behind our midfielders" who aren't playing much, but I'd be interested to know which players you're actually talking about.

The reality is that our promising young midfielders have been given plenty of opportunities. If you want someone who can't crack a regular game, then you're looking at Josh Wooden and Matt Priddis (who could be good). Outside of the midfield, you've got Andrew McDougall and Mitch Morton (who I definitely rate).

Help yourself to Wooden and McDougall, but I don't expect that's what you had in mind.

Bobby Beecroft

30 Sep 2006, 12:20

Who are you talking about?

You're talking about players "sitting behind our midfielders" who aren't playing much, but I'd be interested to know which players you're actually talking about.

You might be better revisisting this after todays game.
Amazing how the one game of the year that has more focus than any other can shape a guys career. Has happened for years now.
Win - & everyone is a hero Lose - well weaknesses suddenly appear

Eg. How much did Michael Gardiners stock devalue after the 2005 GF?

Good luck anyway.

black_hart

30 Sep 2006, 15:08

Selwood would be a good swap although the only problem would be do they want to play together?
As for aker not being valued that's true on a personal level but I think everyone agrees his value in pure football ability is still highly rated.

Snuka

30 Sep 2006, 23:55

Have I missed something? Has McGrath said he wants to go home? Or is another Bradshaw type situation? Where a Brisbane player hasn't signed a new deal so it must means he 'wants to go home'.

Gunner, you seem to be quite sure that West Coast can offer up any old fringe players that you don't want to get McGrath. I don't think this will be the case. If he really wants to go home then I highly doubt that Brisbane would give him to WC or Freo for whatever WC decide. I'm sure they'd be quite prepared to take the risk of losing him to the PSD and getting nothing to get a good deal. I wouldn't be upset if they did either. The whole trading and drafting game is always a risk...You win some and lose some, I'm happy for my club to make the judgements and take the risks.

sherminator

1 Oct 2006, 02:17

ok what about:

mcgrath and pick #22

for

selwood and pick #35

all hypothetical of course ;)

Sounds good. Did you see Adams GF performance? Was solid, not outstanding, but good none the less. :) :thumbsu:

Gunnar Longshanks

1 Oct 2006, 20:07

Gunner, you seem to be quite sure that West Coast can offer up any old fringe players that you don't want to get McGrath. I don't think this will be the case. If he really wants to go home then I highly doubt that Brisbane would give him to WC or Freo for whatever WC decide. I'm sure they'd be quite prepared to take the risk of losing him to the PSD and getting nothing to get a good deal.I'm afraid your certainty is misplaced.

Gunnar Longshanks

1 Oct 2006, 20:09

Sounds good. Did you see Adams GF performance? Was solid, not outstanding, but good none the less. :) :thumbsu:Selwood got 26 touches while keeping a variety of the Swans' dangerous small forwards quiet.

He's not going anywhere.

Snuka

1 Oct 2006, 20:21

Selwood got 26 touches while keeping a variety of the Swans' dangerous small forwards quiet.

He's not going anywhere.

Wow! You know all about the future of Selwood and Mcgrath, man you are connected!

Gunnar Longshanks

2 Oct 2006, 15:28

Wow! You know all about the future of Selwood and Mcgrath, man you are connected!I only know what has been reported about McGrath: that he is toying with the idea that his future lies elsewhere.

If you know something different, then let's hear about it.

I know that Adam Selwood has really been pushed through in the last couple of years, and that he's currently worth a fair bit more than Ash McGrath.

roostersgal4eva

2 Oct 2006, 15:57

I'm afraid your certainty is misplaced.
I'm afraid the oppositions certainy of us being forced to accept the bare minimum for our players and take it because of a percieved salary cap problem is also misplaced.

I'm quite happy to have debate on who is going and what will be a good trade - it's why the lead up to trade week is just as good as the week itself.

What is starting to ware thin is this perception of the situation with our cap being so dire that we will either forced to accept the bare minimum or get nothing at all when this is not the case. I am not niaeve to think there is not an issue but I also don't believe its as great as oppostion supporters are hoping it to be.

We might have to with Aka thanks to his big mouth but hopefully this is where it ends!!!

Quigley

2 Oct 2006, 17:01

I agree with Gunnar about Selwood being worth more than McGrath. Both the twins are starting to look like guys who can mark some the best out of the game whilst picking up 20 possessions themselves. That has a lot more value in my book than a so-so small forward who might or might not become something. I tell you what there is no way I would be trading Troy for McGrath.

Gunnar why don't you give us your version of what McGrath is worth - pick and player wise.

Quigley

2 Oct 2006, 17:05

Here's a question - if McGrath does decide to go into the draft and there is no-one better would the Lions redraft him with the 4th pick? The terms aren't likely to be extravagent and they could decide its better than giving him up for nothing. That is a threat the Lions could make. McGrath has to specify terms he can't specify a team to go to.

Snuka

2 Oct 2006, 17:06

I only know what has been reported about McGrath: that he is toying with the idea that his future lies elsewhere.

If you know something different, then let's hear about it.

I know that Adam Selwood has really been pushed through in the last couple of years, and that he's currently worth a fair bit more than Ash McGrath.

Would prob agree that WC are not going to give away Selwood. But apart from Bigfooty speculation, I haven't read anywhere that McGrath is considering a change of club. It's become a common theme with Bigfooty and even the media that if a Brisbane player is unsigned, it somehow means he wants to go home. Your the one who has brought it up, shouldn't you find the source.

Quigley

2 Oct 2006, 17:33

It was reported in the papers on Friday that he was unsigned and was considering how good it would be to go back to WA. Standard negotiating ploy really. I don't think anything is likely to come of it but it is out there.

luthor

2 Oct 2006, 21:24

Pfffttt.... dreaming.

Agree.

Realistically, a second round draft pick would just about pull it up.

Gunnar Longshanks

2 Oct 2006, 23:52

I'm afraid the oppositions certainy of us being forced to accept the bare minimum for our players and take it because of a percieved salary cap problem is also misplaced.

I'm quite happy to have debate on who is going and what will be a good trade - it's why the lead up to trade week is just as good as the week itself.

What is starting to ware thin is this perception of the situation with our cap being so dire that we will either forced to accept the bare minimum or get nothing at all when this is not the case. I am not niaeve to think there is not an issue but I also don't believe its as great as oppostion supporters are hoping it to be.

We might have to with Aka thanks to his big mouth but hopefully this is where it ends!!!I never mentioned your salary cap.

If McGrath wants out, and wants to go back to WA, then that's all the reason he needs.

I certainly never pointed to salary cap issues anywhere in this thread, so I'm afraid you're rebutting an argument that I never made.

Gunnar Longshanks

3 Oct 2006, 00:04

Gunnar why don't you give us your version of what McGrath is worth - pick and player wise.What McGrath is worth is one thing.

What you're likely to get if he decides he wants to head home may be another.

I don't think you'll get completely screwed, but I don't think you'll look at the trade too fondly either.

From WC, maybe McDougall and a third rounder. I don't expect you to be too enthused by that.

But WC aren't really in a position where they're particularly motivated to trade. We'll be pretty keen to keep our squad together. Any guys that do get moved on will be the ones struggling for a game, and who opposition supporters will turn their noses up at.

I don't think any premiership players will be traded, and there are probably 4-5 guys outside that team who will also be staying put.

If McGrath decides he definitely wants to leave Brisbane, and that he wants to go to Perth, you're going to be in a tricky position. You'll get something decent, but nothing to write home about.

The Dockers and the Eagles can make you a ball-park offer, in the knowledge that the Lions are facing the prospect of losing their player for nothing if they don't strike a deal with a WA team.

You'll be in a position where you want to do a deal with a WA side, and where the WA sides know that.

It sucks when a player decides he wants to go home, especially to a state with two or less teams. There's not going to be much of a bidding war.

Gunnar Longshanks

3 Oct 2006, 00:06

Snuka

3 Oct 2006, 01:26

It sucks when a player decides he wants to go home, especially to a state with two or less teams. There's not going to be much of a bidding war.

This situation is actually probably better for the Lions than a player wanting to go to Vic, since they would have no fear of the PSD because they know they would get picked up by a Vic club since they have finished bottom for the last 7 odd years.

Gunnar Longshanks

3 Oct 2006, 11:53

This situation is actually probably better for the Lions than a player wanting to go to Vic, since they would have no fear of the PSD because they know they would get picked up by a Vic club since they have finished bottom for the last 7 odd years.Mate, you're clueless.

If a player wanted to go home to Victoria, at least there would be more than 2 clubs prepared to bid.

That would drive the price up and increase the likelihood of Brisbane getting a trade that satisfied them.

Compare that to having two WA clubs who both know the Lions want to do a deal with them.

We're talking about a decent player - if they were heading to Victoria there would be no chance on them slipping through to the PSD. There would be enough clubs interested that Brisbane could get a deal that satisfied them.

You can insist that Brisbane are in great position with regard to McGrath, but that's not how it is. If he definitely wants out, it won't turn out happily for you guys.

Grimreepah

3 Oct 2006, 12:05

Gunnar, go away. You do not have the ability to have a civilised conversation, as all you do is call people stupid if they don't agree with you. Your narcisissm is very boorish.

Snuka is far from clueless so show him some respect. He made a good point and all you are doing is repeating yourself on a separate point. We heard you the first time.

Bobby Beecroft

3 Oct 2006, 12:49

This situation is actually probably better for the Lions than a player wanting to go to Vic, since they would have no fear of the PSD because they know they would get picked up by a Vic club since they have finished bottom for the last 7 odd years.

Agree Snuka the only problem being Carlton Have the no 1 PSD pick.
Coincidently Ash's brother Corys team, so while he may not end up in WA playing with his brother may be an attractive 2nd option.

I think he may end up staying but who knows.
All speculation.

Gunnar Longshanks

3 Oct 2006, 14:19

Gunnar, go away. You do not have the ability to have a civilised conversation, as all you do is call people stupid if they don't agree with you.I just have no patience for people who posit something that is utterly counter-intuitive but pretend it's coherent and sensible.

He made a good point...No - he didn't.

He spun the facts in a completely bogus, self-serving way. I can see why you'd admire that.

"I think it's better to have 2 clubs bidding for our player than having 10 clubs interested!"

Yeah - great point!

irel

3 Oct 2006, 14:43

I just have no patience for people who posit something that is utterly counter-intuitive but pretend it's coherent and sensible.

Me foreign person. Me no understand your sentence. What you mean? Is it written in drivel or gibberish?

No - he didn't.
Yes he did. Only your all knowing ego got the better of you and you tried to show off by spewing forth some crud which you assume is the panacea of all that is knowledge about trading strategies. Shouldn't you be up to your knees in cow splat rolling it in neat balls and stockpiling it in your underground bunker you f****g dung beetle.

Gunnar Longshanks

3 Oct 2006, 15:22

Me foreign person. Me no understand your sentence. What you mean? Is it written in drivel or gibberish?

Yes he did. Only your all knowing ego got the better of you and you tried to show off by spewing forth some crud which you assume is the panacea of all that is knowledge about trading strategies. Shouldn't you be up to your knees in cow splat rolling it in neat balls and stockpiling it in your underground bunker you f****g dung beetle.Translation: "I don't like Gunnar's attitude, but I don't have the balls to engage him on anything he's said."

Is there anything I've argued that you actually disagree with?

Snuka

3 Oct 2006, 22:06

Mate, you're clueless.

If a player wanted to go home to Victoria, at least there would be more than 2 clubs prepared to bid.

That would drive the price up and increase the likelihood of Brisbane getting a trade that satisfied them.

Compare that to having two WA clubs who both know the Lions want to do a deal with them.

We're talking about a decent player - if they were heading to Victoria there would be no chance on them slipping through to the PSD. There would be enough clubs interested that Brisbane could get a deal that satisfied them.

You can insist that Brisbane are in great position with regard to McGrath, but that's not how it is. If he definitely wants out, it won't turn out happily for you guys.

Hardly any need for the name calling. I never insisted anything, i'm merely questioning the claim that you seem to be making that WC or Freo can offer up any old crap and Brisbane will have to just close their eyes and think of jesus.

You may be right, we may be in a better position if he wanted to go to Melbourne, but I still think it's a valid point that if Brisbane don't get a good deal from WC or Freo, he won't want to go into the PSD so would be more likely to give Brisbane another shot. All i'm suggesting is that the Lions may not be in such a helpless position as you seem to suggest they are.

Grimreepah

3 Oct 2006, 22:21

i'm merely questioning the claim that you seem to be making that WC or Freo can offer up any old crap and Brisbane will have to just close their eyes and think of jesus.

In support of that argument, when Des Headland wanted to go home, we got picks 3 and 19 as compensation.

Lady Lawrence

4 Oct 2006, 18:49

Translation: "I don't like Gunnar's attitude, but I don't have the balls to engage him on anything he's said."

Is there anything I've argued that you actually disagree with?

settle down mate - I have read some of your early posts in this thread and they were pretty well thought out and written, regardless of whether anyone agreed or disagreed with them so thank you for taking the time to come over to the Brisbane Lions Board and discuss this from your Weagles point of view.

However take a second to remember where you are and treat the posters here with respect. No one here is clueless etc etc. Remember we are all Lions supporters here so will probably have a higher opinion of our players than you and vice versa.

Gunnar Longshanks

4 Oct 2006, 23:06

Hardly any need for the name calling. I never insisted anything, i'm merely questioning the claim that you seem to be making that WC or Freo can offer up any old crap and Brisbane will have to just close their eyes and think of jesus.Not "any old crap".

Just something that you wouldn't leap at if you were in a stronger trading position.

roostersgal4eva

4 Oct 2006, 23:12

Not "any old crap".

Just something that you wouldn't leap at if you were in a stronger trading position.
why do you think we are in the weaker postion out of intrest

Thats where i was comming from with my last post

Because of a perceieved salary cap crisis we are suppose to be a weaker team

Bullldog supporters have assumed this with aka - forgive me for being cynical

Snuka

4 Oct 2006, 23:35

why do you think we are in the weaker postion out of intrest

Thats where i was comming from with my last post

Because of a perceieved salary cap crisis we are suppose to be a weaker team

Bullldog supporters have assumed this with aka - forgive me for being cynical

I believe Gunnar's opinion was that if he wanted to go home to Vic, there would be more bidding for his services, so it would drive the price up. Fair enough, although IMO I didn't think it was that simple, including what Bobby said about his brother playing in the club with the 1st pick in the PSD. That said, there's no guarantee he would be 1st taken depending on what other deals are arranged.

roostersgal4eva

4 Oct 2006, 23:39

ok fair enough

Snuka

4 Oct 2006, 23:47

ok fair enough

Glad I could help...oh, and i'm clueless.

roostersgal4eva

4 Oct 2006, 23:54

u are not cluelless

ive well and truly taken that title

Gunnar Longshanks

5 Oct 2006, 00:53

Glad I could help...oh, and i'm clueless.
u are not cluelless

ive well and truly taken that titleRelax, kids.

There's room for both of you on the list.

Snuka

5 Oct 2006, 01:05

Relax, kids.

There's room for both of you on the list.

Gee, thanks mate. Your a good egg. Not one to fly off the cuff, resort to abuse. Keep it up.:thumbsu:

GoOsH1

5 Oct 2006, 01:30

Personally, unless brisbane take an interest in one of the guys not likely to get a new contract, meaning Gaspar, McDougall, Wooden, Gardiner (I believe their contracts end this year), then it will probably be a trade for a pick, my guess would be a 2nd rd pick. Knowing freo they'd trump us with their 2nd rd pick, even if they don't need another small fwd.

Gunnar: why do you keep shopping rosa around? as far as I am aware he hasn't stated that he wants to head off, and if thats the case, when was the last time we traded a kid we liked (i.e. believed would be in our best 22 soon - which we surely must believe with Rosa) unless he wanted to go? That's correct, never.
Even if he did want to go it would be back to Vic, he almost certainly wouldn't want to go to brissy, so you'd have to organise a 3 way trade with a vic club.

Gunnar Longshanks

5 Oct 2006, 01:36

Gee, thanks mate. Your a good egg. Not one to fly off the cuff, resort to abuse. Keep it up.:thumbsu:Did I hurt your feelings?

Have a wollipop.

Gunnar Longshanks

5 Oct 2006, 01:41

Gunnar: why do you keep shopping rosa around?Maybe you should read my posts.

I don't recall saying we'd trade Rosa for McGrath.

I was making a separate point about our "young midfielders", saying that most of the guys who fall into that category are probably off the table.

However, I would trade Rosa for the right deal.

I don't think that amounts to "shopping him around".

Grimreepah

5 Oct 2006, 01:46

Did I hurt your feelings?

Have a wollipop.

I have never known anyone to be so up themself as you are Gunnar. You are a very unpleasant person:thumbsd:

GoOsH1

5 Oct 2006, 01:58

Maybe you should read my posts.

I don't recall saying we'd trade Rosa for McGrath.

I was making a separate point about our "young midfielders", saying that most of the guys who fall into that category are probably off the table.

However, I would trade Rosa for the right deal.

I don't think that amounts to "shopping him around".
I've read your posts in both this thread and the tarrant thread, and you seem to use rosa as a player we'd be willing to part with, or at the very least as a measuring stick for what another player might be worth.
I'm just telling you theres no way our footy dept. will trade him unless he asks to leave, or they have decided they're going to let him go (which we all know won't happen), simple as that. We know this because of our trading record over the last 20 yrs which shows that we don't trade young guys unless we were going to delist them, or they ask to go (a very good policy IMO)
And since he hasn't asked to leave, using him in your hypothetical trades isn't very useful. You may as well use Waters or butler or selwood, because they're all about as much chance of being traded as Rosa.

Gunnar Longshanks

5 Oct 2006, 02:01

I've read your posts in both this thread and the tarrant thread, and you seem to use rosa as a player we'd be willing to part with, or at the very list as a measuring stick for what another player might be worth.
He's outside our best 22 but would be attractive to other clubs.

He's a handy type, but is surplus to our requirements at the moment.

That's the kind of player who gets traded.

Gunnar Longshanks

5 Oct 2006, 02:01

I have never known anyone to be so up themself as you are Gunnar. You are a very unpleasant person:thumbsd:Get some new material.

Grimreepah

5 Oct 2006, 02:07

Get some new material.

Material for what? I'm not playing games. I just think you are a bit of a sad case if you can't have a civilised conversation with someone. What's wrong with you?

GoOsH1

5 Oct 2006, 02:31

He's outside our best 22 but would be attractive to other clubs.

He's a handy type, but is surplus to our requirements at the moment.

gosh he's pretty damn close to our first 22, butler wasn't in our best 22 earlier in the year and Rosa was - 10 games out doesn't mean suddenly he's 'surplus'

That's the kind of player who gets traded.
by who? not the eagles. as I said, any young guy who doesn't want to get traded doesn't get traded, unless they were going to be delisted. It's an unwritten policy at the Eagles. If you have an example of a young guy that was going well and didn't want to be traded that we have traded in the last 20 yrs I'd like to hear it, because as far as I know it's never happened.