View Full Version : Our Ruck Woes
chelsworthgale
2 Oct 2006, 23:53
Ok probably highlighted heaps already but I want to gain some thoughts on this specific issue...
Our ruck dilemma...
Current Stock
McLaren - Not capable of taking on the duties full time. Not a bad back up playing the same role as a Seaby or a Doyle.
Bryan - Great VFL player but yet to show a lot at the next step. Has great potential but last legs this year. His kick is a great asset and can be potent down back or up forward.
DeLuca - Too light frame. Shocking dukes, and courage is questionable... trade bait IMO
Batson - Young, rookie, untried should retain for another year. Should push for VFL senior selection this year especially with this his third pre-season under his belt.
Trade Potential
Gardiner (WCE) - Yes doesn't fit the youth policy but neither did Longmuir, Banister, Chambers etc. He is ready made, remourseful and could seriously plug a big hole for us and bide us some time. Finished the year really well in the WAFL with some solid performances in both the ruck and in front of the sticks. Potential pick up in the PSD but a deal may be done to get him here. Maybe pick 19 for him and someone like McKinley or Spagnher, both vic boys.
Rix (St Kilda) - Will be 26 at the start of next season. Again doesnt fit youth policy but see above. Showed plenty on debut and backed it up in the following 4 matches including 22 hitouts against Matthew Clarke. Has enough potential to work in tandem with McLaren.
Moran (Kang) - Played the last two games of the year had 21 stats and 10 hitouts. Was given the famous no. 18 gurnsey so they must see something in him. With Hale and McIntosh rated above him he could blossum at Carlton working with McLaren.
Draft
Mathew Leunberger - Heard and read good things about this boy. Stats in colts level in the WAFL are outstanding yet the step up to the Seniors didnt seem to faze him at all. Obviously will go top ten so to get him we will need to trade up. This is where if we actually lose Thornton then we lose him for something good like Hawthorns first pick. (given something additional might need to be thrown in)
Matthew Kreuzer - 199cm Vic Metro ruckman, stellar season with the knights expected to go anywhere after pick 40
Thoughts and additions welcome... My prefered option is to trade Deluca, pick up Gardiner or Moran and trade up to get a pick to get Leunberger.
TheGeneral
3 Oct 2006, 00:08
Matthew Kreuzer - 199cm Vic Metro ruckman, stellar season with the knights expected to go anywhere after pick 40
Ineligible for the draft and considered by many to be one of the candidates for pick 1 next year. :(
Renouf, Jacobs, Hampson and Tippett are some names the draft watchers say we should keep an eye out for from the second round onwards. :thumbsu: :)
chelsworthgale
3 Oct 2006, 00:13
Ineligible for the draft and considered by many to be one of the candidates for pick 1 next year. :(
13th May 1989... makes him 17 and 6 months come draft day. Will turn 18 2 months into next season. Whats the eligibility criteria for the draft?
The Old Dark Navy's
3 Oct 2006, 00:45
Isn't it 17 and a half by June 30 or something abstract like that?
blues4flag
3 Oct 2006, 00:48
I reckon we should go after Mctinosh. Might have to give up a bit to get him, but he seems to be a very good prospect and better get a good ruckman who will be good over the next decade than someone like a Mclaren.
TheGeneral
3 Oct 2006, 01:17
13th May 1989... makes him 17 and 6 months come draft day. Will turn 18 2 months into next season. Whats the eligibility criteria for the draft?
They have to turn 18 before April 30 to be eligible for the draft.
drusswaylander
3 Oct 2006, 01:28
What about Todd Goldstein? Is he eligible? He had a great game for the Chargers in the TAC grandfinal.
As a guy who has only just swapped to footy from basketball he should have a lot of improvement in him and moves very well.
At over 200cm's he could be worth a late pick if he is eligible:thumbsu:
Ok probably highlighted heaps already but I want to gain some thoughts on this specific issue...
Our ruck dilemma...
Current Stock
McLaren - Not capable of taking on the duties full time. Not a bad back up playing the same role as a Seaby or a Doyle.
Bryan - Great VFL player but yet to show a lot at the next step. Has great potential but last legs this year. His kick is a great asset and can be potent down back or up forward.
DeLuca - Too light frame. Shocking dukes, and courage is questionable... trade bait IMO
Batson - Young, rookie, untried should retain for another year. Should push for VFL senior selection this year especially with this his third pre-season under his belt.
Trade Potential
Gardiner (WCE) - Yes doesn't fit the youth policy but neither did Longmuir, Banister, Chambers etc. He is ready made, remourseful and could seriously plug a big hole for us and bide us some time. Finished the year really well in the WAFL with some solid performances in both the ruck and in front of the sticks. Potential pick up in the PSD but a deal may be done to get him here. Maybe pick 19 for him and someone like McKinley or Spagnher, both vic boys.Rix (St Kilda) - Will be 26 at the start of next season. Again doesnt fit youth policy but see above. Showed plenty on debut and backed it up in the following 4 matches including 22 hitouts against Matthew Clarke. Has enough potential to work in tandem with McLaren.
Moran (Kang) - Played the last two games of the year had 21 stats and 10 hitouts. Was given the famous no. 18 gurnsey so they must see something in him. With Hale and McIntosh rated above him he could blossum at Carlton working with McLaren.
Draft
Mathew Leunberger - Heard and read good things about this boy. Stats in colts level in the WAFL are outstanding yet the step up to the Seniors didnt seem to faze him at all. Obviously will go top ten so to get him we will need to trade up. This is where if we actually lose Thornton then we lose him for something good like Hawthorns first pick. (given something additional might need to be thrown in)
Matthew Kreuzer - 199cm Vic Metro ruckman, stellar season with the knights expected to go anywhere after pick 40
Thoughts and additions welcome... My prefered option is to trade Deluca, pick up Gardiner or Moran and trade up to get a pick to get Leunberger.
Pick 19 should not be involved in any trade related to Gardiner. In fact it shouldn't be traded at all unless its part of a package to gain a higher pick.
I think Rix has very limited ability. Gardiner would have to pass a medical with flying colours to be any hope, and even then we wouldn't want to give up much for him. I don't think there's many other viable options out there, but will see what happens come next week. Meeson won't be going anywhere now.
Assuming we pick Gibbs ahead of Leunberger, if someone like Renouf is available at 17 or 19 that could be a good option, but we may still be drafting for best available at that point. Must pickup a young ruck with talent at some stage this draft and hope he can start to deliver in 2-3 years time when we start moving up the ladder.
For the present, stick with Deluca who's currently our best, sorry - least worst, option and hope Mclaren improves next year, Bryan needs to pull his finger out and get serious next year if he wants to stay on, he still may get cut, especially if we do pick up someone like Gardiner. Batson I'm still not convinced on yet.
Jeremias
3 Oct 2006, 09:29
Currently we have McLaren, Deluca, Bryan on the main list. Batson and Aisake on the rookie list.
The plan:
-Elevate Batson
-Draft Renouf at 19
-Draft Jason Laycock in the PSD if available
-Rookie a ruckman (Goldstein if around)
That leaves us with:
1) McLaren
2)Laycock
-Expect these guys to be our first option ruck choices
3)Bryan
4)Deluca
-Will be used as backup and maybe cameos at some stage up forward
5)Batson
-Insurance year if injuries strike. Will continue developing in the Bullants seniors
6)Aisake
7)Goldstein
-Both on rookie list and will take a while to develop.
Bluebear
3 Oct 2006, 13:17
Currently we have McLaren, Deluca, Bryan on the main list. Batson and Aisake on the rookie list.
The plan:
-Elevate Batson
-Draft Renouf at 19
-Draft Jason Laycock in the PSD if available
-Rookie a ruckman (Goldstein if around)
That leaves us with:
1) McLaren
2)Laycock
-Expect these guys to be our first option ruck choices
3)Bryan
4)Deluca
-Will be used as backup and maybe cameos at some stage up forward
5)Batson
-Insurance year if injuries strike. Will continue developing in the Bullants seniors
6)Aisake
7)Goldstein
-Both on rookie list and will take a while to develop.
Sounds good. Not many options, as due to the youth policy we are bound to get someone who hasn't developed yet.....like Laycock.
I hope and pray that the rumours about Aisake's development being quicker and more exciting than his bro's are true. Haven't seen the ants two's so don't know first hand.
RiteBak@Ya
3 Oct 2006, 13:49
Currently we have McLaren, Deluca, Bryan on the main list. Batson and Aisake on the rookie list.
The plan:
-Elevate Batson
-Draft Renouf at 19
-Draft Jason Laycock in the PSD if available
-Rookie a ruckman (Goldstein if around)
That leaves us with:
1) McLaren
2)Laycock
-Expect these guys to be our first option ruck choices
3)Bryan
4)Deluca
-Will be used as backup and maybe cameos at some stage up forward
5)Batson
-Insurance year if injuries strike. Will continue developing in the Bullants seniors
6)Aisake
7)Goldstein
-Both on rookie list and will take a while to develop.
You left out Renouf. That would be 8 - to many IMO
Agree :thumbsu: We need to pick up Renouf at 19 and use a late pick or rookie the next best available as a project, (I would only do this if Laycock is not traded or becomes available in the PSD). We cant have 8 ruckmen on our list. This should be complemented with Kruezer or Bellchambers next year and offloading 2 ruckman
We need to hold fort with Mclaren, Bryant and Deluca. If Laycock becomes available in the PSD grab him.
Although ruckman take time to develop they can become great currency as trade bait once developed. Other teams are always looking for young bakup ruckman who have developed. If we introduce a number of them into our system over the next few years we can keep the goods ones and trade-off the second stringers. A developing ruckmen is not a major expense to a list in the first 3-4 years. There is no reason why we can't have 7 ruckmen on our list. As we identify talent and the young ruckman develop we can peel it back to 6 then 5.
Mclaren, Bryan, Deluca, Renouf, Batson, Aisake - then 1 late draft or PSD
The Grover
3 Oct 2006, 14:33
They have to turn 18 before April 30 to be eligible for the draft.
Thats correct so if you don't turn 18 on or before April 30 2007, you can't enter the 2006 National Draft. Therefore Kruezer is not eligible.
chelsworthgale
3 Oct 2006, 17:03
Thats correct so if you don't turn 18 on or before April 30 2007, you can't enter the 2006 National Draft. Therefore Kruezer is not eligible.
Well that sucks balls doesnt it! 13 Days, isnt there some sort of exemption to the rules and hasnt it been used of late?
The Grover
3 Oct 2006, 17:37
Well that sucks balls doesnt it! 13 Days, isnt there some sort of exemption to the rules and hasnt it been used of late?
I have a feeling someone did get a special exemption one year. Even if he was in this draft he would probably get picked before our 2nd pick no.17.
Therefore we may have a better chance of getting him 2007 draft provided we finish low enough & the prior picks fall our way.
I think we just have to see what other kids aren't getting a go at other clubs, much like French.
I think in trade week the only trade we might be involved in will be to get us a ruck.
Whom that ruck may be???? Ahhhh trade week oh so close!!
chelsworthgale
3 Oct 2006, 18:05
I think we just have to see what other kids aren't getting a go at other clubs, much like French.
I think in trade week the only trade we might be involved in will be to get us a ruck.
Whom that ruck may be???? Ahhhh trade week oh so close!!
Moran from North...
Meesen from Crows...
Blake from Geelong...
sweetman87
3 Oct 2006, 23:17
Moran from North...
Meesen from Crows...
Blake from Geelong...
I saw Blake play in the VFL GF, and i thought he was the reason for their change of play and the reason why they were able to kick 5 goal in a row, he looks like a good tap ruckman. What do you think? :confused:
Sanguinarius
3 Oct 2006, 23:26
Meesen from Crows...
no chance, unless he's involved in a package deal for you no. 1 pick.
how likley do you think that is?
chelsworthgale
3 Oct 2006, 23:28
no chance, unless he's involved in a package deal for you no. 1 pick.
how likley do you think that is?
arent the stories doing the rounds that the kid is out of contract and home sick? if thats the case we have PSD pick number one... reckon we could use that beauty to snag him...
how likely do you think that is?
C4[2]Yo`DooR
3 Oct 2006, 23:36
so Renouf or Tippet ?
Jeremias
3 Oct 2006, 23:37
arent the stories doing the rounds that the kid is out of contract and home sick? if thats the case we have PSD pick number one... reckon we could use that beauty to snag him...
how likely do you think that is?
Very unlikely-he just signed a 1 year deal, and will not be traded. Ask again in a year and it may be a distinct possibility, but not now.
chelsworthgale
3 Oct 2006, 23:43
Yo`DooR']so Renouf or Tippet ?
who is taller?
who is heavier?
blues4flag
4 Oct 2006, 00:12
I still honestly believe Mctinosh is a very good prospect and with Laycock signing up and our lack of quality rucks, he'll be a very good option. Can play, no doubt and I'd be more than willing to give up pick 19 (possibly even 17) for him instead of going for a Renouf at the same pick. He's had a couple years in the system and showed enough to suggest he will be a very good player and should be easily able to play all 22 games next year.
chelsworthgale
4 Oct 2006, 00:15
I still honestly believe Mctinosh is a very good prospect and with Laycock signing up and our lack of quality rucks, he'll be a very good option. Can play, no doubt and I'd be more than willing to give up pick 19 (possibly even 17) for him instead of going for a Renouf at the same pick. He's had a couple years in the system and showed enough to suggest he will be a very good player and should be easily able to play all 22 games next year.
We would have a better chance at grabbing Moran who has just as big wraps
Sanguinarius
4 Oct 2006, 03:06
arent the stories doing the rounds that the kid is out of contract and home sick? if thats the case we have PSD pick number one... reckon we could use that beauty to snag him...
how likely do you think that is?
while contracted till the end of next year? not ver likely...
considering he has resigned I'm huessing it is not homesickness that has meese troubled, but lack of opportunities, the same with Maric. in 2007 there will be lots of opportunities for a mobile young ruckman at the afc
I still honestly believe Mctinosh is a very good prospect and with Laycock signing up and our lack of quality rucks, he'll be a very good option. Can play, no doubt and I'd be more than willing to give up pick 19 (possibly even 17) for him instead of going for a Renouf at the same pick. He's had a couple years in the system and showed enough to suggest he will be a very good player and should be easily able to play all 22 games next year.
And there it is, you've pointed out why McIntosh is worth more than pick 19 or 17.
journo06
4 Oct 2006, 09:55
What do you guys think will happen to Batson?
What can you tell me about him?
Why, when he's been there for 2 years, when Carlton haven't been doing so well he still appears to be getting no where.
The Ruck is an issue and problem area. Aisake is probably the one with the most potential on our list, but he's about 2 years away. The others (Deluca, Bryan and MacLaren) are stop-gaps IMO. I really think Deluca should be deslited by the way, regradless. Anyway, this is the reason why I think we should consider drafting Gardiner in the PSD. The best case scenario, would be that he manages to hold the #1 Ruck position for a year or 2, while Aisake, and another draft ruckman develop. Bryan is frustrating, because he has the talent and size to make it at this level, but just lacks the intensity and commitment for some reason. Not sure whether we should do this, but Setanta definitely has the attributes to be a top-class ruck, but think we should probably just let him develop his running defender role for a while yet. Pretty sure Denis will give him a few ruck duties next year though. Barry Mitchell put him in the ruck on a few occasions for the Bullants. He obviously had little idea about playing that position ie. leaps were mistimed etc. But he certainly had the size and leap to be very good there. With Setanta, you'll have no doubt he'll be busting a gut to learn the ruck trade if he had to. I have a feeling someone will step up this year, after French has retired. The number #1 ruck position is up for grabs. :)
Beau McDonald is looking for a trade after being offered a one year deal.
Would he be a better stop gap than Gardiner?
Better attitude but extremely injury prone
Delist Bryan and Batson, keep DeLuca only 'cause he's contracted. Give McLaren another chance.
Draft Renouf with pick 17 or 19, and have a look at Kruezer in next years draft. Renouf is mobile enough to play at CHB. Played there in the QFL GF and did a good job apparently. Would make a very handy ruck duo in years to come.
For 2007/2008 whilst Renouf and Kruezer are developing, I would seriously look at Clark Keating for a short term fix.
marcmurphy3
5 Oct 2006, 11:18
I read somewhere that Russel wants to leave and it has been speculated that we might trade him for Fabien Deluca. What would you think of this?
I read somewhere that Russel wants to leave and it has been speculated that we might trade him for Fabien Deluca. What would you think of this?
odd seeing as we past up on him twice i think (?)
Gilly1972
5 Oct 2006, 11:27
Delist Bryan and Batson, keep DeLuca only 'cause he's contracted. Give McLaren another chance.
Draft Renouf with pick 17 or 19, and have a look at Kruezer in next years draft. Renouf is mobile enough to play at CHB. Played there in the QFL GF and did a good job apparently. Would make a very handy ruck duo in years to come.
For 2007/2008 whilst Renouf and Kruezer are developing, I would seriously look at Clark Keating for a short term fix.
My idea would be similar but not exactly the same.
My thinking is predicated on the fact that we have to take our medicine this year.
I would keep DeLuca and McLaren as well, I would tell DeLuca his last chance to survive on the list beyond next year is to become a full-time ruckman, and then ensure he spends most of the pre-season on ruck drills. Start with McLaren and DeLuca as our two ruckmen in round 1. Aisake spends most of the year developing in the Ants as their number 1 ruckman.
With respects to the draft, we make a ruckman our number 1 priority in 2007, that allows us to pick 3 smalls (best available) with 1, 17 and 19 this year. We see who slips through to #35 and make a call on whether to use that selection on a ruckman (IMO, yes to Tippett and Renouf), if they are gone take best available, then see if Jacobs or Hampson are around at #51.
Next year we make Kreuzer our #1 target in the first round, unless there is somebody too good to pass on or he is gone by our pick, otherwise we pick up either McEvoy or Bellchambers with our second round pick.
Meanwhile, I would take a punt on Polak (NOT Gardiner or Keating) in the PSD, he could slot in at CHB immediately. If McLaren or DeLuca are struggliing, we give Polak a run in the ruck and slot Lance back to CHB.
This is assuming we don't pick up a good ruckman during trade week or a better ruck option looks headed for the PSD.
What happens in next years draft if when it comes to our pick our recruiting team deem a small to be the best available
Does Hughes pick best available? When does he pick for position?
sticks74
5 Oct 2006, 11:34
I read Beau McDonald may leave Brisbane...Should we have a crack at him???
Brisbane cant find room in cap for him and notting...
Gilly1972
5 Oct 2006, 11:42
What happens in next years draft if when it comes to our pick our recruiting team deem a small to be the best available
Does Hughes pick best available? When does he pick for position?
I don't think we should pick for need in round 1, that's why i said we take best available (Kreuzer might already be taken as well), but i do think that (fingers crossed), after this years draft (1, 17 and 19 best available) and our first round pick next year, then we will be in a stronger position to draft for need in the second round (i.e. best available ruckman, Bellchambers or McEvoy, etc..), which is sort of the approach Hawthorn took last year with Bailey.
I don't think we should pick for need in round 1, that's why i said we take best available (Kreuzer might already be taken as well), but i do think that (fingers crossed), after this years draft (1, 17 and 19 best available) and our first round pick next year, then we will be in a stronger position to draft for need in the second round (i.e. best available ruckman, Bellchambers or McEvoy, etc..), which is sort of the approach Hawthorn took last year with Bailey.
I wish we traded for another first round pick ;)
SurreyBlue
5 Oct 2006, 11:58
I read Beau McDonald may leave Brisbane...Should we have a crack at him???
Brisbane cant find room in cap for him and notting...
Definitely if he doesn't cost us much. I would love to have someone who can actually ruck again.
Definitely if he doesn't cost us much. I would love to have someone who can actually ruck again.
He will struggle to get on the park
SurreyBlue
5 Oct 2006, 12:07
He will struggle to get on the park
A real concern no doubt Effes. His finish to 2006 is confirmation to that.
Which of Tippet/Renouf are closest to playing senior football?
Gilly1972
5 Oct 2006, 12:19
From what i've seen both are about as physically developed as each other, and wouldn't be far off playing AFL footy, I would still give them a season in the Ants.....both played in the QFL grand final IIRC. Renouf is more of a natural ruckman and has spent more time there, whereas Tippett has spent more time up forward, although from what i have heard (not seen) Tippett has been spending more time in the ruck in the QFL and his basketball background means he is quite natural at palming the ball down to his midfielders.
Kwik-e-mart
5 Oct 2006, 12:33
I notice what hawthorn wants is much different to what Sydney / Saints seem willing to give for Everitt.
Who would you take if Everitt, Gardiner, and Keating were all available in the PSD?
Gilly1972
5 Oct 2006, 13:14
Notting or Polak :D
I read somewhere that Russel wants to leave and it has been speculated that we might trade him for Fabien Deluca. What would you think of this?
Dont rate him.
I'd prefer to take Maric.
BlueWorld
5 Oct 2006, 15:13
Dont rate him.
I'd prefer to take Maric.
Crows will not be giving him up with Biglands out for year and Clarke retiring.
My idea would be similar but not exactly the same.
My thinking is predicated on the fact that we have to take our medicine this year.
I think we need to start looking for the cure Gilly.
I would keep DeLuca and McLaren as well, I would tell DeLuca his last chance to survive on the list beyond next year is to become a full-time ruckman, and then ensure he spends most of the pre-season on ruck drills. Start with McLaren and DeLuca as our two ruckmen in round 1. Aisake spends most of the year developing in the Ants as their number 1 ruckman.
Correct
With respects to the draft, we make a ruckman our number 1 priority in 2007, that allows us to pick 3 smalls (best available) with 1, 17 and 19 this year. We see who slips through to #35 and make a call on whether to use that selection on a ruckman (IMO, yes to Tippett and Renouf), if they are gone take best available, then see if Jacobs or Hampson are around at #51.
With respect mate, I think we really need to pull the trigger on a ruckman this year. Hard to split Renouf and Tippett, but I have Renouf slightly ahead.
I just don't think we can afford to wait another 12 months to draft an up and coming ruckman.
Next year we make Kreuzer our #1 target in the first round, unless there is somebody too good to pass on or he is gone by our pick, otherwise we pick up either McEvoy or Bellchambers with our second round pick.
I'd still look at Kruezer, McEvoy and Bellchambers next year as well. Who says Renouf couldn't play at CHB or Tippett play up forward next to Fev in the FP?
Meanwhile, I would take a punt on Polak (NOT Gardiner or Keating) in the PSD, he could slot in at CHB immediately. If McLaren or DeLuca are struggliing, we give Polak a run in the ruck and slot Lance back to CHB.
I'd look at Polak as well, especially if we lose T-Bird. But I wouldn't put him in the ruck. That's why we have a look at Keating purely as a short term fix so we don't have to rush Renouf or Tippett.
Gilly1972
5 Oct 2006, 23:52
HBF, i agree in principle with drafting a ruckman this year, i think it is a matter of where you think you can pick up somebody of worth, and this is where we differ.....i think we can take a reasonable punt on at least waiting until our third round pick.
Polak has spent a bit of time in the ruck with Freo with some success, and i only advocated him pinch-hitting from time to time, but spending most of the time in the backline :thumbsu: