View Full Version : KPPs in the Draft
Boy from the West
3 Oct 2006, 22:50
Further to my earlier posts regarding ruckmen, it is time to list KPP. Indicate stats such as hgt, wgt etc and a preference as a forward or back (or both eg hansen). I will compile them. Fire away:cool:
From SA
1. James Sellar - 196 cm forward
2. Mark Austin - 194 cm defender
3. James Turner - 190 cm forward
4. Justin Westhoff - 197cm forward (age 19 and playing league)
f00ty-1S-L!fe
4 Oct 2006, 16:45
chris dawes - 195 cm (i think) forward
Gumbleton
Hansen
Thorp
Sellar
Riewoldt
Hawkins
Ried
McKenzie
Allen
Brown
Brown
Frawley
Everitt?
Collier?
Dawes
Tarrant
Tapp?
Cheetham?
Any others?
sinepari
4 Oct 2006, 18:05
Garland, Mohr.
Some people consider Morton KPP material (at 190cm it's feasible).
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 18:13
Gumbleton
Hansen
Thorp
Sellar
Riewoldt
Hawkins
Ried
McKenzie
Allen
Brown
Brown
Frawley
Everitt?
Collier?
Dawes
Tarrant
Tapp?
Cheetham?
Any others?
Top Tier:
Hansen (CHB/CHF)
Gumbleton (CHF/CHB)
Thorp (CHB/CHF,anywhere!)
Hawkins (F/S Geelong) (FF)
Sellar (CHF/CHB)
Riewoldt (
Some would say the mysterious Caleb Mourish!!
Second Tier:
Reid
Everitt
McKenzie (FB/CHB)
Collier
M. Brown (CHF/FF)
N. Brown (FB)
J. Allen (CHF/CHB)
C. Dawes (CHF)
Frawley (FB/CHB?)
Morton
Third Tier:
Tarrant
Westhoff
Garland
Faulks
Mark Austin
Turner
Guys in italics are more versatile HPP/Flanker types at the moment and might take more time to develop into KPP
wouldn't have Riewoldt in the top tier. Allen, however would be pushing a spot in the top tier spot , possibly MacKenzie too. Both better than Riewoldt IMO.
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 18:22
wouldn't have Riewoldt in the top tier. Allen, however would be pushing a spot in the top tier spot , possibly MacKenzie too. Both better than Riewoldt IMO.
Fair enough, that is why i put a space between Riewoldt and the 'true' top tier, couldn't decide whether to demote him or not :p
I'm not convinced Allen is top tier though, he may make it, but he may not.
I haven't seen McKenzie play any colts games but he didn't do enough in the champs to convinve me he belongs with the Hansen's and Gumbleton's of this world. I also tend to be more of a Scarlett FB type man than a big developed Rutten FB type :)
Macca, you have probably seen these kids play more often than i so i will bow to your superior judgement :)
Fair enough, that is why i put a space between Riewoldt and the 'true' top tier, couldn't decide whether to demote him or not :p
I'm not convinced Allen is top tier though, he may make it, but he may not.
I haven't seen McKenzie play any colts games but he didn't do enough in the champs to convinve me he belongs with the Hansen's and Gumbleton's of this world. I also tend to be more of a Scarlett FB type man than a big developed Rutten FB type :)
Agree I dont think Allen and McKenzie are as good as Gumby, Sellar, etc, but both a better than Riewoldt, who IMO is overated on these boards.
McKenzie wasn't 100% fit at the champs, forget what was wrong with him, but he's a much better player than he showed at the champs.
I have seen Allen show more than enough that he's talented enough to make it at AFL level, but he lacks consistancy at this point, but there is plenty there for clubs to work with.
Macca what is it about Riewoldt that you don't like? Not that I doubt your opinion just wanted to know why and what flaws you see etc.
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 18:34
Agree I dont think Allen and McKenzie are as good as Gumby, Sellar, etc, but both a better than Riewoldt, who IMO is overated on these boards.
McKenzie wasn't 100% fit at the champs, forget what was wrong with him, but he's a much better player than he showed at the champs.
I have seen Allen show more than enough that he's talented enough to make it at AFL level, but he lacks consistancy at this point, but there is plenty there for clubs to work with.
Agreed on that.
Riewoldt showed a lot in some of the VFL games i watched, good work ethic and good second and third efforts, he also seemed to hold his own against bigger opponents even though he has a relatively light frame at this stage, so that gave me some extra confidence in him. Having said that i am mindful he was injured earlier in the season so he was probably peaking towards the end of the year.
Macca what is it about Riewoldt that you don't like? Not that I doubt your opinion just wanted to know why and what flaws you see etc.
It's not that I don't rate him as such, there is definately a lot to like about him, but on these boards he is considered a top tier player alongside Sellar, Gumby, Hansen, etc, when he isn't of that superstar quality at this stage. He doesn't have the capacity to break games open and win games off his own boot, like the better players in this draft do.
He doesn't have a lot of weaknesses, but he isn't quick for a leadup player, isn't consistant as he tends to fade in and out of games, often doesn't play his best footy for 4 quaters, which may be a psychological thing or might just be a lack of aerobic capacity or it could even be his versitility effecting his ability to play 4 quaters in one position consistantly.
He will become a good/great player, just not an elite player like the guys he seems to get compared to a bit on here. Could end up slipping a bit like Cleve Hughes did last year.
sinepari
4 Oct 2006, 18:57
Cleve slipped because his size dropped after draft camp. People thought he was taller. He just wasn't overly mobile for a 191 player. If he would have been 194 etc that would be a different story.
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 19:06
Cleve slipped because his size dropped after draft camp. People thought he was taller. He just wasn't overly mobile for a 191 player. If he would have been 194 etc that would be a different story.
he shrunk after draft camp? :eek: :p
Where do people think Riewoldt SHOULD go? And where do people think Riewoldt WILL go? Two different questions.
Hughes is 192cm, 193cm according to footydraft.com. What does "wasn't overtly mobile" mean? As a Richmond supporter, that's slightly concerning.
Where do people think Riewoldt SHOULD go? And where do people think Riewoldt WILL go? Two different questions.
Hughes is 192cm, 193cm according to footydraft.com. What does "wasn't overtly mobile" mean? As a Richmond supporter, that's slightly concerning.
Answer to both questions is 10-20 IMO.
sinepari
4 Oct 2006, 19:35
Lol gilly, that's not what I meant. Poor phrasing on my behalf.
He was listed at over 193 prior to draft camp but turned out to be 191 I believe.
I could be wrong
Im assuming the crows will probably take a key forward with their first pick at 14, who do you guys think will be the best KP left by then?
sinepari
4 Oct 2006, 19:44
Depends if anyone slides Fudd.
Allen & MacKezie are in the 15-20 range but aren't really KF.
Riewoldt a chance if he lasts. Too early for Garland. Collier isn't really a KF and probably to early. Mitchell Brown is an option, but would that be overpaying?
Basically, I'm not sure if they'll go KF first pick. I know they need one, but should be available 2nd round.
Allen, Riewoldt and Tippett would be your best bets at this stage. Mourish would be a chance also.
Depends if anyone slides Fudd.
Allen & MacKezie are in the 15-20 range but aren't really KF.
Riewoldt a chance if he lasts. Too early for Garland. Collier isn't really a KF and probably to early. Mitchell Brown is an option, but would that be overpaying?
Basically, I'm not sure if they'll go KF first pick. I know they need one, but should be available 2nd round.
Cheers.
Im guessing they will probably go for the best talent available if there isnt one of the gun forwards left, and then go for specific positions with the other picks.
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 20:26
Allen mainly plays CHF for Calder sinepari, and has kicked bags, 8 and 9 from memory, but as Macca said runs hot and cold. He played CHB, loose man in defense for Vic metro as they had Mitch Brown and Dawes taking up the KPF.
I would be surprised if the Crows picked Allen up. I think they will go for a Connors, Schmidt or O'Brien with their first pick and maybe see what talls are around for their second pick. If they did go tall i can see them surprising us and taking a punt on a bottom age tall with more potential upside like a Reid or Everitt. Pure guess though.
sinepari
4 Oct 2006, 20:28
Yeah I know Gilly, but I reckon he's more of a backman at AFL level, who can pinch-hit forward.
Wayne's-World
4 Oct 2006, 21:03
Allen mainly plays CHF for Calder sinepari, and has kicked bags, 8 and 9 from memory, but as Macca said runs hot and cold. He played CHB, loose man in defense for Vic metro as they had Mitch Brown and Dawes taking up the KPF.
I would be surprised if the Crows picked Allen up. I think they will go for a Connors, Schmidt or O'Brien with their first pick and maybe see what talls are around for their second pick. If they did go tall i can see them surprising us and taking a punt on a bottom age tall with more potential upside like a Reid or Everitt. Pure guess though.
Would be amazed if Adelaide took Everitt....think family history may influence some clubs.
No they'll take at least 2 KPP.....when were looking at ruckmen a couple of years ago I think we took 3 talls and a midfielder.
This year I would imagine 2 talls and a midfielder with a best available in the PS draft.
What do people think of Tippet at #14...too early, too late....?
Wayne's-World
4 Oct 2006, 21:04
Allen, Riewoldt and Tippett would be your best bets at this stage. Mourish would be a chance also.
Macca who IYO has the biggest development in them of the 3 you've named?
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 21:09
WW - I don't doubt that the crows might be looking for a couple of KPP's, i suppose my point is that at least in my mind, the best talent around their first pick are likely to be ball carriers, therefore they might go tall with their next 2 picks.
ernie burger
4 Oct 2006, 21:09
Daniel Currie
Wayne's-World
4 Oct 2006, 21:14
WW - I don't doubt that the crows might be looking for a couple of KPP's, i suppose my point is that at least in my mind, the best talent around their first pick are likely to be ball carriers, therefore they might go tall with their next 2 picks.
So far most top 10 have probably half as KPP.....I somehow think that as clubs view the West Coast and Bulldogs model of quick midfielders that I agree some clubs in the top 10 will take midfielders over a KPP.
But I would be very very surprised given we've lost Hentschell, Biglands (part time forward) and Watts last year, that we won't take the best Forward KPP at 14.
kempos_kingz_05
4 Oct 2006, 21:15
It's not that I don't rate him as such, there is definately a lot to like about him, but on these boards he is considered a top tier player alongside Sellar, Gumby, Hansen, etc, when he isn't of that superstar quality at this stage. He doesn't have the capacity to break games open and win games off his own boot, like the better players in this draft do.
He doesn't have a lot of weaknesses, but he isn't quick for a leadup player, isn't consistant as he tends to fade in and out of games, often doesn't play his best footy for 4 quaters, which may be a psychological thing or might just be a lack of aerobic capacity or it could even be his versitility effecting his ability to play 4 quaters in one position consistantly.
He will become a good/great player, just not an elite player like the guys he seems to get compared to a bit on here. Could end up slipping a bit like Cleve Hughes did last year.
God what a load of cr*p. You obviously have never seen him play.
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 21:21
So far most top 10 have probably half as KPP.....I somehow think that as clubs view the West Coast and Bulldogs model of quick midfielders that I agree some clubs in the top 10 will take midfielders over a KPP.
But I would be very very surprised given we've lost Hentschell, Biglands (part time forward) and Watts last year, that we won't take the best Forward KPP at 14.
That's a reasonable argument mate, and i can imagine there are circumstances where a club will draft on need if they rate two different type of players about the same on ability and potential. Tippett might be a good fit, as he could spend time both up forward and in the ruck.
God what a load of cr*p. You obviously have never seen him play.
you think Riewoldt is in the same class as Gumby, Sellar, Hansen, etc?
Macca who IYO has the biggest development in them of the 3 you've named?
Very hard to answer as their all different types of players. I'd say Tippett has the biggest potential upside, but could easily stagnate in his development.
Wayne's-World
4 Oct 2006, 21:53
Very hard to answer as their all different types of players. I'd say Tippett has the biggest potential upside, but could easily stagnate in his development.
Your not a lawyer are you...bit each way :p
Your not a lawyer are you...bit each way :p
lol, just saying he's a high risk, high reward type. It's impossible to say who will develop into the better player with any certainty, but if they all reach their peak then Tippett will be the better player IMO, although as he is a year older than the other 2, he may find it harder to reach his peak. Hope that makes sense.
lol, just saying he's a high risk, high reward type. It's impossible to say who will develop into the better player with any certainty, but if they all reach their peak then Tippett will be the better player IMO, although as he is a year older than the other 2, he may find it harder to reach his peak. Hope that makes sense.
Agree with all that and add into it the fact he's only been playing for a couple of years coming from a Bball background.
Massive up-side I reckon.
sinepari
4 Oct 2006, 22:12
Massive down-side too. Some clubs don't like risk.
Massive down-side too. Some clubs don't like risk.
Theres always one of these project type players that go higher than most expect. He's my bet for it this year.
sinepari
4 Oct 2006, 22:17
Of course. It's become fairly obvious to most that it's the case. I'm finding it hard to 'allocate' him a club so early though.
crowsarethebest
4 Oct 2006, 22:21
I'm supprised Macca that you don't think Riewoldt is in the Sellar, Gumby and Hansen class etc. I don't get why you say that he can't win a game off his own boot and break games open. He proved that he could do that.. he did it in the U18 championships. He was struggling early but then turned it on and kicked 3 goals or something like that to win the game for Tassie or sometihng like that. Can't remember properley but he can certainly win games and break games open.
Of course. It's become fairly obvious to most that it's the case. I'm finding it hard to 'allocate' him a club so early though.
I'm not convinced we should do it but I wouldn't be surprised if Carlton used either of 17 or 19 on him.
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 22:26
I'm not convinced we should do it but I wouldn't be surprised if Carlton used either of 17 or 19 on him.
Uo until a few weeks ago i would have said we'd go small with 1, 17 and 19, but i am starting to get the same feeling as you TGR.
Uo until a few weeks ago i would have said we'd go small with 1, 17 and 19, but i am starting to get the same feeling as you TGR.
I'm still praying for mids with those picks. I reckon theres some pretty good value ruckman who we could snaffle with later picks.
IMO we're in no position to gamble with our early choices.
Gilly1972
4 Oct 2006, 22:35
I'm still praying for mids with those picks. I reckon theres some pretty good value ruckman who we could snaffle with later picks.
IMO we're in no position to gamble with our early choices.
no arguments here :thumbsu:
footyman5
9 Oct 2006, 20:16
Ive heard a bit about this kid from the west in nugent. can he play a key position. i saw a few games this year and last year and he played chf and took some very strong grabs and also kicked 2 and 3 goals playing there and in the ruck. Whats some peopls opinions or is he genuinly just a ruckman who can only play in the ruck
Boy from the West
9 Oct 2006, 21:03
Ive heard a bit about this kid from the west in nugent. can he play a key position. i saw a few games this year and last year and he played chf and took some very strong grabs and also kicked 2 and 3 goals playing there and in the ruck. Whats some peopls opinions or is he genuinly just a ruckman who can only play in the ruck
Yes I think that there is plenty in this kid. Surprisingly didn't get a gig at Draft Camp or State Screen - although he did Screen last year.
Carried injuries this year but when scouting East Freo colts I was always amused when he rucked and then was often interchanged via the bench.
Got screwed by coach at Nationals.
Whenever he did play CHF he looked good.
Shron Watt
9 Oct 2006, 21:18
Will Schofield from Geelong measured in at over 195cm at the recent draft camp. Finished in the top 10 for beep test and 3km time trial, which is handy for someone that tall. Very athletic and can easily take a small or a tall forwrad. Would have to be considered and is only bottom age. Any thoughts?
sinepari
9 Oct 2006, 21:19
Rookie-listing BFTW? Can you confirm how tall he is?
I have him listed at 197cm but I reckon he could be a tad taller now.
Passion Blue
9 Oct 2006, 21:22
Guys can anyone tell me more about Sellar? Is he more a forward or ruckman?
sinepari
9 Oct 2006, 21:25
KP, forward of defender is yet to be established. Underage. If he was 3-4cm taller would be a quality ruck prospect.
Boy from the West
9 Oct 2006, 23:01
Rookie-listing BFTW? Can you confirm how tall he is?
I have him listed at 197cm but I reckon he could be a tad taller now.
Assume that is NUgent you are talking about - 197 is right. 90 Kg.
One thing I noted is his accurate goal kicking and ability to use his non dominant side.
sinepari
9 Oct 2006, 23:04
Yeah mate. I haven't seen a great deal of him, but what I've seen I've liked. Considering injury, I reckon he's possibly the goods.
Shame he isn't testing at State screening. I reckon he's grown.
Boy from the West
10 Oct 2006, 12:14
Another one on the scene is James Thomson (Claremont) who missed Carnival with injury. Plays CHB / FB. Excellent results at Draft Camp will only help his cause. Thoughts anyone?