View Full Version : Murphy vs Cooney vs Deledio
Da Shag On Fire
24 Oct 2006, 16:54
Who will be the best (most skilled & consistent) in 3 years?
delirious1
24 Oct 2006, 16:58
i would rather Cooney
The Zebra
24 Oct 2006, 17:02
I don't know about most skilled and consistent, but if you are talking the best - far and away it will be Deledio.
I would say Cooney next and then Murphy.
All are welcome at North though.
Now, or in 3 years.
NorthBhoy
24 Oct 2006, 17:04
Deledio
Cooney
Murphy
That was an easy one.
one_twelve112
24 Oct 2006, 17:14
Murphy
a better poll would be griffen/deledio/murphy
astro_toby
24 Oct 2006, 17:35
i'd have to say murphy looked the most composed in his first season compared to the other 2 first seasons.
in regards to in 3 years time, who ****ing knows!
delirious1
24 Oct 2006, 17:36
i like cooney more because he can kick goals
murphy will be a gun,
deledio is the odd one out
bluesforever
24 Oct 2006, 20:02
Hmm in 3 years...
Murphy will be a possesion king for years to come, knows how to kick a goal too.
Cooney will be a game breaker, great at the clearances, maybe be the best of these 3 at breaking games wide open.
Deledio will be ok, consistant enough without becoming a champion. IMO he has been over-rated a little.
Richo83
24 Oct 2006, 22:42
It depends. While Cooney is a great player, he is a bit inconsistent.
Murphy is an unknown. It's not hard to star in your first 13 games, just ask Bartram. It's hard to say what he'll be like in 3 years time because he doesn't have the runs on the board like Cooney and Deledio does.
Deledio's in the middle, more consistent than Cooney but probably doesn't get that much of the ball compared to Murphy. If it was kicking goals consistently in 3 years time, Cooney. If it was consistenty getting posessions, Murphy. However, IMO consistently good, Deledio. Even with Deledio's "poor" year he averages close to 19 possesions a game this year. One wonders where he'll be in three years time.
I'm starting to sound like parrot now, but hey. That said, I'd wouldn't be surprised if either player became the best out of these three. Then again, players can become stars when they previously struggled (Hodge) so its hard to tell.
Can anyone tell me why Kangaroos fans particulary rate Deledio highly? Here its the Kangas fans trupmping his skills and before in that "Deledio's over-rated" it was Kangas fans who came to his side. I like it, keep it up.
Jeremias
24 Oct 2006, 22:48
1. Murphy
2. Cooney
3. Deledio
Woodstock..
24 Oct 2006, 22:56
Cooney
Deledio
Murphy
Coughlan
24 Oct 2006, 23:00
odd one out is Murphy, while he will be consistent, just as Deledio who had an average year this year and still averaged 19-20 possies a game and Cooney will be consitent as well, Deledio and Cooney have the ability to tear you apart and single handedly win a game, where as Murphy doesnt have these qualities, add to the fact that Deledio is more versatile then the other two and IMO it goes Deledio>Cooney>Murphy
Murph by a fair margin, then Cooney, then Deledio. :)
Anja_Nees
25 Oct 2006, 00:00
All the supporters of the teams involved will be biased to their own, but there's still no way I'd give up Cooney for either of the other two. His game against Adelaide this year was better than any game the other two have produced. Granted, he is the oldest, but 33 possessions and 5 goals in a close game in your third year against the (then) ladder leaders where the stakes were so high pretty much sums it up.
He's inconsistent, but he's had to carry injuries. Then again, I know the other teams probably wouldn't trade their players. All look to have great futures either way.
bluesforever
25 Oct 2006, 00:00
Pity Deledio can't kick, he'd be pretty good.
Pity Deledio can't kick, he'd be pretty good.
He can run very fast in a straight line though. But I guess Chambers could also. :)
rick James
25 Oct 2006, 00:41
Murphy is the only one out of three who can get his own ball effectively, but Cooney is far more dangerous than the other two, while Lids is probably athletically superior to either of them.
In summary, I voted for Brock McLean. Who is miles ahead of these try-hards.
Nah just kidding, I voted for the Coon. Only cause we wouldn't need Murphy's "type" as much at Melbourne with Jones and Bate there, but Murphy will be the best all around performer imo and will lead the blues back to the finals.
NorthBhoy
25 Oct 2006, 11:26
Pity Deledio can't kick, he'd be pretty good.
As far as stupid comments go, even in a thread like this that is up there.
Deledio is an amazing kick. Him hitting a drop punt on the burst is beautiful to watch. Better kick than Cooney (hits them better, makes far better decisions) and is so much more damaging by foot than Murphy it's ridiculous.
Monkeyboy
25 Oct 2006, 12:00
You would love to have them all.
Going on the 13 games of this year, i would take Murphy at number 1
Murphy
Cooney
Deledio
The Zebra
25 Oct 2006, 12:08
is so much more damaging by foot than Murphy it's ridiculous.
Unless your 15.4 metres away.
He is a precise little fella.
I'd prefer the explosive mother****er.
Nah just kidding, I voted for the Coon. Only cause we wouldn't need Murphy's "type" as much at Melbourne with Jones and Bate there, but Murphy will be the best all around performer imo and will lead the blues back to the finals.
I don't think the question was who would you rather at your club rj.
Who will be the best (most skilled & consistent) in 3 years?
If anything from what I've seen of Marc Murphy, he's a shocking kick.... All floater.
Cooney is a superstar....but I dont think he has the potential that Deledio has to become one of the real superstars.
Cooney will be around longer in the league I reckon.
Im gonna say 1. Cooney 2. Deledio 3. Murphy
bluesforever
25 Oct 2006, 12:35
As far as stupid comments go, even in a thread like this that is up there.
Deledio is an amazing kick. Him hitting a drop punt on the burst is beautiful to watch. Better kick than Cooney (hits them better, makes far better decisions) and is so much more damaging by foot than Murphy it's ridiculous.
More damaging than Murphy by foot? I am unsure whether you are joking or not? Murphy hit Fevola on the chest 9/10 where as Deledio just blazes away with a long kick that isn't too anyone in particular... Ofcourse he has his moments but as for hitting targets, Murphy has him covered comfortably.
More damaging than Murphy by foot? I am unsure whether you are joking or not? Murphy hit Fevola on the chest 9/10 where as Deledio just blazes away with a long kick that isn't too anyone in particular... Ofcourse he has his moments but as for hitting targets, Murphy has him covered comfortably.
hahaha Are you kidding....Deledio is one of the most skillfuly atributed players to come out of the draft for a long time.
Murphy has SHOCKING skills....I never seen him hit a target with it rolling end over end like a pinapple. Or floating all over the shop like a boomerang.
Jeremias
25 Oct 2006, 12:42
hahaha Are you kidding....Deledio is one of the most skillfuly atributed players to come out of the draft for a long time.
Murphy has SHOCKING skills....I never seen him hit a target with it rolling end over end like a pinapple. Or floating all over the shop like a boomerang.
Then you obviously don't watch him often, because, for the most part Murphy has excellent skills.
Deledio and Cooney will be better and are so far.
I'd take them before Murphy, we are crying out for ball carrying explosive midfielders.
gandaal
25 Oct 2006, 13:02
hahaha Are you kidding....Deledio is one of the most skillfuly atributed players to come out of the draft for a long time.
Murphy has SHOCKING skills....I never seen him hit a target with it rolling end over end like a pinapple. Or floating all over the shop like a boomerang.
What alternate universe do you live in? :eek:
I know its saying something but that's just about the dumbest comment I've ever read during my time on bigfooty.
Murphy>Delido>Daylight>Cooney.
Anthony_
25 Oct 2006, 13:23
Murphy>Delido>Daylight>Cooney.
Cooney>Delido>Murphy>Daylight>Any youngster Collingwood has produced in the last three years.
Richo83
25 Oct 2006, 13:50
Murphy is the only one out of three who can get his own ball effectively, but Cooney is far more dangerous than the other two, while Lids is probably athletically superior to either of them.
In summary, I voted for Brock McLean. Who is miles ahead of these try-hards.
Nah just kidding, I voted for the Coon. Only cause we wouldn't need Murphy's "type" as much at Melbourne with Jones and Bate there, but Murphy will be the best all around performer imo and will lead the blues back to the finals.
Have to admitt, is McLean was in this poll, he'd be winning quite easily. He's tough, but also has that silky quality and ability to run through and kick a goal. I'd take Brock over Adam any day.
That said, I'm happy with Deledio in his second year averaging 19 possesions. Pretty good.
Pav for AA
27 Oct 2006, 15:53
Murphy > Mundy > Cooney > Deledio :thumbsu:
Realistic Tiger
27 Oct 2006, 16:18
Using each players first season stats:
Murphy 13 games 235 possessions @ 18 per game.
Deledio 22 games 336 possessions @ 15 per game.
Cooney 19 games 224 possessions @ 12 per game.
You would say that Murphy had the better first year even cut short he would have had 396 possessions if he continued at his average for the year. As for who will be the better player in 3 years time will tell.
As for Cooney and Deledio in their second seasons:
Cooney 22 games 434 possessions @ 19.7 per game
Deledio 21 games 394 possessions @ 18.7 per game
With their only being 1 possesion per game difference between the averages, I would argue that most clubs would be happy to have either player on their list. Further to that you could argue that as long as they improve each year they will all have decent AFL careers.
Murphy > Mundy > Cooney > Deledio :thumbsu:
Who's Mundy? :)
Realistic Tiger
27 Oct 2006, 17:06
Who's Mundy? :)
Is it not the thing that follows Sunday
Using each players first season stats:
Murphy 13 games 235 possessions @ 18 per game.
Deledio 22 games 336 possessions @ 15 per game.
Cooney 19 games 224 possessions @ 12 per game.
You would say that Murphy had the better first year even cut short he would have had 396 possessions if he continued at his average for the year. As for who will be the better player in 3 years time will tell.
As for Cooney and Deledio in their second seasons:
Cooney 22 games 434 possessions @ 19.7 per game
Deledio 21 games 394 possessions @ 18.7 per game
With their only being 1 possesion per game difference between the averages, I would argue that most clubs would be happy to have either player on their list. Further to that you could argue that as long as they improve each year they will all have decent AFL careers.
I find possession stats completely irrelevant, especially with some of the ridiculous ineffective keeping-off game plans adopted by the Hawks and Tiges on occasions this year. I rate Murph and Cooney highly. Both have natural footy smarts. While Murph looks to be the most talented, he has only played 1/2 a season at this stage. Deledio will be a good player for the Tiges, and is very fast running in a straight line over 100m, but is just not in the same class as the other 2, because of his relative lack of instinctive footy smarts, and ordinary decision making. His skills are a little suspect under pressure, and tends to panic a bit. The ultimate poll next year will be Marc Murphy V Bryce Gibbs - 2 of the best #1 picks the game has ever seen and in the one team. A great spectacle for all footy fans. :)
blues4flag
27 Oct 2006, 17:16
Murphy has SHOCKING skills....I never seen him hit a target with it rolling end over end like a pinapple. Or floating all over the shop like a boomerang.
Shocking skills huh? Might not be the longest kick, but he has deadly accurate footskills, espicially going into 50. Best at Carlton by foot inside 50, according to Fev.
Kim Chambers
27 Oct 2006, 18:24
ATM;
Cooney
Murphy
Deledio
haha at this poll
Murphy, a player of the same mould as Mitchell and West and will be interesting to see if will ever be as good as these guys at getting the hardball and yet is being talked about as a superstar after 12 games. :D Suspect about his short floating kicks
Cooney no doubt has that x-factor but apart from one super game in 3 years of footy hasnt done anything to be labelled. A few murmurings about whether he's hard enough..
Deledio finished his 2nd year in hot form and has played a variety of roles already. Bottom aged number 1 draft pick and like cooney has that x factor + more, strong overhead mark and could pinch hit at KP with his size. Has more tools than the others and will be a better player. Great footy brain contrary to what some believe. Also makes a lot less unforced errors/clangers than the other 2.
Deledio
cooney
murphy
rick James
31 Oct 2006, 14:49
Murphy isn't like West or Mitchell imo.
He's much more like McLean just less developed physically (though pretty similar to Brock in his first season).
i.e. the main difference between a Brock/Murphy and a Mitchell/West is that Brock and Murphy are predators first and foremost. They get to the ball first fairly frequently, but not as frequently as West and Mitchell.
Where they excel is that they tackle hard, they are superb in traffic, have great balance, they pounce on any oppurtunity and it's almost impossible to tag them out of the game - they also have better foot skills than West and Mitchell.
They will rack up clearances, but it isn't through being tough, it's through sheer footy smarts and the ability to attack the footy and the man. They're somewhere between a West/Mitchell clearance specialist, and a Judd/Burgoyne game breaker but without being better than either.
Just my take on it.
I dont think Murphy is a McLean type, hes a lot smaller, not as strong and doesnt have the motor
McLean might be built like an outhouse and tough at the hardball, but he also has plenty of run like you said in the mould of a gamebreaker. Thats what makes him such a damaging player. Saw a story on him a while back, one of the hardest working and committed footballers you will ever meet, he will be a star for many years, have no doubt about that.
However not sold on Murphy being anything more than a very good rover, cant kick long and hasnt shown he has the running capacity to be a line breaking player from what I have seen.
Murphy isn't like West or Mitchell imo.
He's much more like McLean just less developed physically (though pretty similar to Brock in his first season).
i.e. the main difference between a Brock/Murphy and a Mitchell/West is that Brock and Murphy are predators first and foremost. They get to the ball first fairly frequently, but not as frequently as West and Mitchell.
...
I always admire your efforts at trying to talk up McLean by comparing him to a player with a vastly superior talent-level like Marc Murphy. Next you'll be comparing Moloney to Bryce Gibbs. Huge laughs. :)
rick James
31 Oct 2006, 15:09
I always admire your efforts at trying to talk up McLean by comparing him to a player with a vastly superior talent-level like Marc Murphy. Next you'll be comparing Moloney to Bryce Gibbs. Huge laughs. :)
Haha McLean is a cut above anyone in this poll in spite of playing only as many games as Deledio.
I'm not sure Murphy will be as good as McLean, but he is in the same mould (may not develop physically though) just less penetrating kicking skills and not as tough.
KING-JAMES
31 Oct 2006, 15:47
I really think one day Cooney will click and i see so much potential in him. He has that gamebreaker factor and to me will only improve.
TheBacko
31 Oct 2006, 15:55
the latest crop of youngsters are always better then the previous.
Murphy
Deledio
Cooney
I really think one day Cooney will click and i see so much potential in him. He has that gamebreaker factor and to me will only improve.
Tend to agree. Lots of upside. Looked a bit lost under pressure in that Final, but he'll learn from that I'm sure. :)
philhawk
31 Oct 2006, 16:14
Deledio>Cooney>Murphy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thomas
Really not much in it between the first three. Deledio has the pace and the silky skills to play both on the HFF's and in the Midfield, whilst Cooney is going to become an excellent 'Brad Johnson' type forward who can play through the middle and rack up an 'easy' 20 disposals.
Murphy looks the goods at this stage, but he needs to improve his footskills and aerobic capacity (which should come with a few Pre-Seasons under his belt).
Deledio>Cooney>Murphy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thomas
Really not much in it between the first three. Deledio has the pace and the silky skills to play both on the HFF's and in the Midfield, whilst Cooney is going to become an excellent 'Brad Johnson' type forward who can play through the middle and rack up an 'easy' 20 disposals.
Murphy looks the goods at this stage, but he needs to improve his footskills and aerobic capacity (which should come with a few Pre-Seasons under his belt).
I dont think they are that much better than Thomas.
Richo83
31 Oct 2006, 16:23
the latest crop of youngsters are always better then the previous.
Murphy
Deledio
Cooney
So Goddard is better than Hodge?
TheBacko
31 Oct 2006, 16:55
So Goddard is better than Hodge?
um... no not in that case.
celtic_pride
2 Nov 2006, 20:53
Can't believe all North fans are paying out on Marc Murphy.
When is Wells ever going to come good ? :)
Cassius_Clay
2 Nov 2006, 21:08
So Goddard is better than Hodge?
Hmmm, his last season was outstanding.
He could become a better player than Hodge, no doubt.
Mitchell Madness
3 Nov 2006, 06:44
Birch>>>>>>everyone else
The_Bulldogs_Bite
4 Nov 2006, 15:47
Murphy - Solid build, good balance. Bit too small IMO but still, he'll be a great player for The Blues. Getting Gibbs will help. Means the two can work in tandem, rather then Murphy having to do ALL the work. Murphy, with 2 or 3 other good midfielders, will shine.
Deledio - Relatively good mark, is he not? Fast in a straight line, but not in the same class as Murphy or Cooney. Not a match winner, not strongly built & not a big goal kicker. He'll be a GOOD consistent player, but no where near the best of the 3.
Cooney - Inconsistency and injury are holding him back. If he can overcome them, he'll be the best by a mile. Natural game breaker & winner. Capable of kicking bags of goals. Electrifying pace. Good at stoppages, able to run away with it. Good skills also. Big body & a good leap with a good set of hands. Needs to get better below his knees and harder at the ball & improve tackling, but if he improves on these few little things he'll be in the Top 5 of the comp.
Deledio will probably have a little more consistency - it seems at this stage - throughout his career. But will struggle to push beyond that.
Murphy will be a perfect all rounder. Body size, skills, balance. Just needs support around him and he'll be an absolute gun.
Cooney on potential has a much bigger upside. If he improves on a few things and finds consistency, he'll be up there with the best 2 or 3 midfielders in the competition.
All three are pretty versatile, so I think The Clubs would be happy with what they've got.
On another note; Griffen beats them all :)
Coughlan
4 Nov 2006, 22:31
Murphy - Solid build, good balance. Bit too small IMO but still, he'll be a great player for The Blues. Getting Gibbs will help. Means the two can work in tandem, rather then Murphy having to do ALL the work. Murphy, with 2 or 3 other good midfielders, will shine.
Deledio - Relatively good mark, is he not? Fast in a straight line, but not in the same class as Murphy or Cooney. Not a match winner, not strongly built & not a big goal kicker. He'll be a GOOD consistent player, but no where near the best of the 3.
Cooney - Inconsistency and injury are holding him back. If he can overcome them, he'll be the best by a mile. Natural game breaker & winner. Capable of kicking bags of goals. Electrifying pace. Good at stoppages, able to run away with it. Good skills also. Big body & a good leap with a good set of hands. Needs to get better below his knees and harder at the ball & improve tackling, but if he improves on these few little things he'll be in the Top 5 of the comp.
Deledio will probably have a little more consistency - it seems at this stage - throughout his career. But will struggle to push beyond that.
Murphy will be a perfect all rounder. Body size, skills, balance. Just needs support around him and he'll be an absolute gun.
Cooney on potential has a much bigger upside. If he improves on a few things and finds consistency, he'll be up there with the best 2 or 3 midfielders in the competition.
All three are pretty versatile, so I think The Clubs would be happy with what they've got.
On another note; Griffen beats them all :)
now give your unbiased opinion
Thalidomide
4 Nov 2006, 22:39
Murphy is a brilliant kick!
TheGeneral
4 Nov 2006, 22:44
Birch>>>>>>everyone else
Paul Bower will be every bit as good.
TheGeneral
4 Nov 2006, 22:48
I was going to vote for the other guys because they are more attractive packages than Murphy given their size, upside and pace. But I couldn't bring myself to because Murphy's debut season is second to none and he's a freak.
whippersnipper
4 Nov 2006, 22:50
Wow I'm slightly urprised that so many people are voting for Murphy. I mean, I voted for him because I'm a Carlton supporter and so I've seen how good he is (and I do genuinely think he is the best of the three) but Cooney surely should attract a few more votes as well. Has an excellent all round game. Delidio, sadly, is the one that doesnt really belong there. Solid, but will be no superstar.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 15:22
now give your unbiased opinion
Bitter about picking Deledio before Griffen?
Idiot.
Coughlan
5 Nov 2006, 15:34
Bitter about picking Deledio before Griffen?
Idiot.
no mate, im not bitter at all, but you are biased, read it again with both eyes open, the idiot is you you deluded ********, i never paid out anybody, i just stated a fact that your post was incredibly biased.:rolleyes:
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 16:25
no mate, im not bitter at all, but you are biased, read it again with both eyes open, the idiot is you you deluded ********, i never paid out anybody, i just stated a fact that your post was incredibly biased.:rolleyes:
Fact: Deledio is no where near EVER being a Superstar, and YOU - you pathetic little man - you can't handle it.
..At least you got the second best midfielder in the draft, though.
Perhaps you're Nathan Brown, and are merely pissed off the side you left is now miles ahead of the side you're in. ;)
That, or you're just another moron.
Coughlan
5 Nov 2006, 16:54
Fact: Deledio is no where near EVER being a Superstar, and YOU - you pathetic little man - you can't handle it.
..At least you got the second best midfielder in the draft, though.
Perhaps you're Nathan Brown, and are merely pissed off the side you left is now miles ahead of the side you're in. ;)
That, or you're just another moron.
hows about some evidence to back up these so called facts you imbecile, the only evidence you could use its stats and career achievements, and oh no, what do you Deledio is ahead of Griffen in all of them, and is nearly a year younger;)
Fact: Deledio is no where near EVER being a Superstar, and YOU - you pathetic little man - you can't handle it.
..At least you got the second best midfielder in the draft, though.
Perhaps you're Nathan Brown, and are merely pissed off the side you left is now miles ahead of the side you're in. ;)
That, or you're just another moron.
You're a tool. :thumbsd:
Griffin had better be a superstar if this is the way idiot supporters like you are going to behave before he's actually done anything of any consequence.
Coughlan
5 Nov 2006, 17:04
You're a tool. :thumbsd:
Griffin had better be a superstar if this is the way idiot supporters like you are going to behave before he's actually done anything of any consequence.
yes he is, i actually like griffen, but if all WB supporters are going to be morons like he is about him, a lot of people will be wishing for him to fail.
the sad and pathetic thing is he thinks he is being objective, he actually said to date that Griffens career has been better the Brock McLeans:o
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 17:07
hows about some evidence to back up these so called facts you imbecile, the only evidence you could use its stats and career achievements, and oh no, what do you Deledio is ahead of Griffen in all of them, and is nearly a year younger;)
Stats account for jack ******** - surely even you know that.
Deledio hasn't influenced games like Griffen has, and he's played his majority of games right in the guts whilst Griffen has played mostly HBF. Suggests to me that once Griffen DOES permanently slot into the midfield, he'll take Deledio to the cleaners.
Picked up in the same draft as AFL ready made players. Age doesn't count for a lot, since they have developed at the same time.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 17:09
yes he is, i actually like griffen, but if all WB supporters are going to be morons like he is about him, a lot of people will be wishing for him to fail.
the sad and pathetic thing is he thinks he is being objective, he actually said to date that Griffens career has been better the Brock McLeans:o
Correction; said they were even taking into account McLeans added year of development, but think Griffen has more of an upside. Might want to read through it a few times and actually get the point behind it before you start criticising you fool.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 17:11
You're a tool. :thumbsd:
Griffin had better be a superstar if this is the way idiot supporters like you are going to behave before he's actually done anything of any consequence.
People like Coughlan piss me off.
I'm giving valid REASONS for my opinions, yet all he can do - and you can do - is trash it.
If I was simply whoring out "Griffen's better then Deledio" and giving no explanations, then yes - that's being a tool. But expressing an opinion and giving reasons?
You're the tool, gandaal. :thumbsd:
yes he is, i actually like griffen, but if all WB supporters are going to be morons like he is about him, a lot of people will be wishing for him to fail.
the sad and pathetic thing is he thinks he is being objective, he actually said to date that Griffens career has been better the Brock McLeans:o
Griffin isn't a superstar. He's a potential superstar. I wouldn't even call him a star yet. He's only really had a sizeable impact on 3 or four games so far in his career. Same as Deledio really.
People like Coughlan piss me off.
I'm giving valid REASONS for my opinions, yet all he can do - and you can do - is trash it.
If I was simply whoring out "Griffen's better then Deledio" and giving no explanations, then yes - that's being a tool. But expressing an opinion and giving reasons?
You're the tool, gandaal. :thumbsd:
So the other guy being a tool first makes it ok for you to be a tool too? :rolleyes:
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 17:17
Griffin isn't a superstar. He's a potential superstar. I wouldn't even call him a star yet. He's only really had a sizeable impact on 3 or four games so far in his career. Same as Deledio really.
So the other guy being a tool first makes it ok for you to be a tool too? :rolleyes:
I didn't say Griffen IS a Superstar. Perhaps check up a little more then you have.
I said along the lines that Griffen will be, or at very least, has all the potential to BE a Superstar in the near future.
Bit of a difference there.
How is justifying my belief being a tool? You & Coughlan didn't like my opinion - thus criticising - but how does that make me a tool? There's plenty of people that think along my lines.
Coughlan
5 Nov 2006, 17:18
But the problem is you didnt give reasons, you just said, Griffen is miles better, i never slagged off anybody.
Would you like me to get the posts, or just concede defeat know
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 17:31
But the problem is you didnt give reasons, you just said, Griffen is miles better, i never slagged off anybody.
Would you like me to get the posts, or just concede defeat know
Are you blind?
No. Really.
Are you?
I've given explanations as to why Griffen is better (I.E Bigger body). And the comparisons of influencing a game when Deledio played mostly in the center, and Griffen mostly at HB.
You've just screamed bias for the past hour. :rolleyes:
Coughlan
5 Nov 2006, 17:55
Are you blind?
No. Really.
Are you?
I've given explanations as to why Griffen is better (I.E Bigger body). And the comparisons of influencing a game when Deledio played mostly in the center, and Griffen mostly at HB.
You've just screamed bias for the past hour. :rolleyes:
i feel like im talking to a brick wall, ive called it bias because thats what it is, you have just stated your opinions of Griffen calling him better and stating it as facts, this is not a fact, a fact is when you have evidence to back it up, you can only really do this by using stats and career achievments which have Deledio ahead im sorry to say.
head to head stats have Deledio on top (http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=2006&PlayerName1=Brett+Deledio&PlayerName2=Ryan+Griffen&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&Compare=Add+to+Comparison&SelectedPlayers=1529%2C1551%2C)
To date in their career's Deledio has achieved more, he is also younger and IMO has more upside.
These are the only facts you can use and i am sorry it proves you wrong:o no matter your opinon on stats they are more reliable then the opinions of spectators who most are biased even if you dont want to admit it its true.
Ryan Griffen - Complete player. Superb balance & side steps. Breaks tackles all the time. Great skills by both hand & foot. Poise. Footy smarts. What more could you want? Miles ahead of Deledio. 2007 will see him a little more in the midfield, but I suspect it won't be until 2008 until he's a permenant midfielder. Not because he "cant" get into our midfield, but because he plays a very important HB role. That, and he needs to build his fitness levels up. Once he does become a Full Time midfielder - watch out.
Your ability to make an objective opinion? What have you come up with? That my theory is biased.
Please, explain to me; how does Deledio - in the slightest of ways - even compare to Griffen?
Pace? Barely. Griffen's pretty quick.
Marking? Nope.
Tackling? Nope.
Shrugging tackles & side stepping? Nope.
Goal kicking? I'll say even.
Defensively? Nope.
Offensively? Nope.
Deledio has Griffen beat on nothing. After two years, Griffen has clearly overtaken Deledio.
Deledio has played the majority in the center, but how many games has he won or influenced?
Griffen - playing 80% off a HBF - has had a HELL of a lot more influence on games then Deledio.
Case closed.
hmm and heres your definition of proving your point with facts, well maybe you should go and get yourself a dictionary and look up the word "facts" in the dictionary- hint it has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion, which anybody can see other then you it is biased, and other then giving your one eyed facts as to why Griffen is better your only other reasoning is that im just jelous.
Maybe you should learn how to make a structured argument, yes?
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 18:10
i feel like im talking to a brick wall, ive called it bias because thats what it is, you have just stated your opinions of Griffen calling him better and stating it as facts, this is not a fact, a fact is when you have evidence to back it up, you can only really do this by using stats and career achievments which have Deledio ahead im sorry to say.
head to head stats have Deledio on top (http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=2006&PlayerName1=Brett+Deledio&PlayerName2=Ryan+Griffen&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&Compare=Add+to+Comparison&SelectedPlayers=1529%2C1551%2C)
To date in their career's Deledio has achieved more, he is also younger and IMO has more upside.
These are the only facts you can use and i am sorry it proves you wrong:o no matter your opinon on stats they are more reliable then the opinions of spectators who most are biased even if you dont want to admit it its true.
hmm and heres your definition of proving your point with facts, well maybe you should go and get yourself a dictionary and look up the word "facts" in the dictionary- hint it has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion, which anybody can see other then you it is biased, and other then giving your one eyed facts as to why Griffen is better your only other reasoning is that im just jelous.
Maybe you should learn how to make a structured argument, yes?
For a second time; stats do NOT mean a thing. Every single person, with HALF a brain, will tell you that.
The proof is in the pudding itself. How they have influenced games. How they perform are in specific areas (I.E Marking, Kicking).
That is fact.
Stats? Wash 'em down the toilet. They're worthless in today's game. Surely you can recognise that? Maybe not.
Griffen has barely tapped on his potential. He's yet to move into the midfield for extended periods. Deledio has been in there for the last 2 years, and whilst he HAS done well, he hasn't been "extrodinary" by any means. Griffen on a HBF has been equally or MORE damaging. If he were in the middle as much as Deledio, you'd see the big difference between them. However, Griffen is doing an 'apprenticeship' if you will on the HBF and has done extremely well. Played maybe 2 bad games? Had a hand in quite a few of our wins and played really well in some of our defeats.
The fact that you rely on stats to tell you everything clearly suggests to me that you're a tool of the absolute highest order.
It's clear to the naked eye Griffen's balance and bigger body is superior to Deledios, and thus his marking, breaking of tackles & ability to play on all sizes etc. is much better.
Deledio will get bigger, but he's never going to get to Griffen's size and thus is "somewhat" restricted.
Griffen has played on big bodied players. Quality players. Been told to beat them. Deledio hasn't had to do this. He has more or less ran free, coping a few tags this year.
It's never going to get through to your head, so call me bias ALL you want. But I'm not the only one to have an opinion as such about Deledio. So what, they're biased too? Bookmark this, and come back to it in five years. Then we'll see who's talking ********.
Coughlan
5 Nov 2006, 18:26
my god, i didnt say stats are proof, you have been going on that it is a fact that Griffen is better, it isnt, i used stats because it is the only form of evidence to say that player A is better then player B, all is said is if your going to say somethings a fact back it up, you have failed to do this, the only evidence is stats, i dont think they are of great importance either, but they are worth something, if they pointed in Griffens direction i am sure you would say, "Ha, see griffens better"
The fact is, they have been pretty much even throughout their entire career, you can't judge the effect saying that one has had more then the other, because they play different roles.
And for the record, your claims that Deledio will be restricted because he wont be the same size as Griffen, thats a load of bollox, they are nearly the same size Deledio just a little bit taller, but with a lot of filling out to do, dont just make things up to suit your argument, because it doesnt work it has the opposite effect. He wont be restricted.
Bookmark it if you will, it will be the total opposite, his size will allow him to play through the middle, anywhere on the ground but FB
maybe someone should start a griffen vs deledio poll
trashos mob
5 Nov 2006, 18:53
i'd rather a coughlan vs bulldog bite poll
I didn't say Griffen IS a Superstar. Perhaps check up a little more then you have.
Was I talking to you? Did I quote your post before making that comment about Griffin not being a superstar yet?
Take your own advice.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 19:34
Was I talking to you? Did I quote your post before making that comment about Griffin not being a superstar yet?
Take your own advice.
My apologies then, I took it the wrong way.
always right
5 Nov 2006, 20:19
My apologies then, I took it the wrong way.
Do us realistic bulldogs a favour and take a break. We all have high hopes for Griffen...and Cooney...and Ray...and Higgins, but let's not get carried away.
At this stage Cooney has been exciting but needs to be more consistent. Griffen has shown glimpses of his outdoubted talent but needs to show it on a more regular basis. I have no doubt they will all prove to be guns but you are becoming a little tiresome. Wait til these guys have the runs on the board and then come back on to gloat.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
5 Nov 2006, 20:45
Do us realistic bulldogs a favour and take a break. We all have high hopes for Griffen...and Cooney...and Ray...and Higgins, but let's not get carried away.
At this stage Cooney has been exciting but needs to be more consistent. Griffen has shown glimpses of his outdoubted talent but needs to show it on a more regular basis. I have no doubt they will all prove to be guns but you are becoming a little tiresome. Wait til these guys have the runs on the board and then come back on to gloat.
With all due respect, if you have read the threads, you'll realize I haven't said these players ARE Superstars, but merely expressing my opinion that (Griffen) will be.
murphy's twin
5 Nov 2006, 22:09
my god, i didnt say stats are proof, you have been going on that it is a fact that Griffen is better, it isnt, i used stats because it is the only form of evidence to say that player A is better then player B, all is said is if your going to say somethings a fact back it up, you have failed to do this, the only evidence is stats, i dont think they are of great importance either, but they are worth something, if they pointed in Griffens direction i am sure you would say, "Ha, see griffens better"
The fact is, they have been pretty much even throughout their entire career, you can't judge the effect saying that one has had more then the other, because they play different roles.
And for the record, your claims that Deledio will be restricted because he wont be the same size as Griffen, thats a load of bollox, they are nearly the same size Deledio just a little bit taller, but with a lot of filling out to do, dont just make things up to suit your argument, because it doesnt work it has the opposite effect. He wont be restricted.
Bookmark it if you will, it will be the total opposite, his size will allow him to play through the middle, anywhere on the ground but FB
What a ********er, stats are a form of proof. Actually i will give you a FACT: Who was voted the young player of the year award.......GRIFFEN
What a ********er, stats are a form of proof. Actually i will give you a FACT: Who was voted the young player of the year award.......GRIFFEN
Murphy shouldn't even be included in this poll, he has barely played 15 games compared to Cooney and Deledio who have played 2-3 seasons and have been continually improving. Murphy could end up being a hack who knows? McGough was a star in his first few games and look what happened to him
Murphy shouldn't even be included in this poll, he has barely played 15 games compared to Cooney and Deledio who have played 2-3 seasons and have been continually improving. Murphy could end up being a hack who knows? McGough was a star in his first few games and look what happened to him
Only if he broke both of his legs three or four times in a row.
Coughlan
6 Nov 2006, 09:58
What a ********er, stats are a form of proof. Actually i will give you a FACT: Who was voted the young player of the year award.......GRIFFEN
wanna play like that do you, um well Deledio won the Rising star award in his first season after being drafted at number 1 well being one of the youngest players in the draft, he also won the AFLPA best first year player as well, there's two facts, true he didn't star in 2006 but was still about even with Griffen only Deledio had taggers on him.
And by the way, with your first sentence you are supporting what i was saying you moron, read over what the other doggies supporter said;) dumbarse
murphy's twin
6 Nov 2006, 10:26
wanna play like that do you, um well Deledio won the Rising star award in his first season after being drafted at number 1 well being one of the youngest players in the draft, he also won the AFLPA best first year player as well, there's two facts, true he didn't star in 2006 but was still about even with Griffen only Deledio had taggers on him.
And by the way, with your first sentence you are supporting what i was saying you moron, read over what the other doggies supporter said;) dumbarse
I didnt say that the stats are a form of proof to back up ur stupid argument, they only proove which player had more touches of the ball :o
Hardly worth boasting about, cause everyone knows that it countes for jack ********, its all about what you do with those possessions. Also the only reason why Griffen didnt win the rising star was because he didnt play all 22 games. Anyway call me biased if u wish, cause (through your logic) all the afl coaches must be biased towards the dogs aswell
And he hasnt even started in the middfield yet :eek:, i cant image how much of an influence he will have on the game then.
Coughlan
6 Nov 2006, 10:32
I didnt say that the stats are a form of proof to back up ur stupid argument, they only proove which player had more touches of the ball :o
Hardly worth boasting about, cause everyone knows that it countes for jack ********, its all about what you do with those possessions. Also the only reason why Griffen didnt win the rising star was because he didnt play all 22 games. Anyway call me biased if u wish, cause (through your logic) all the afl coaches must be biased towards the dogs aswell
And he hasnt even started in the middfield yet :eek:, i cant image how much of an influence he will have on the game then.
oh god, not another dumb doggies supporter, surely you must be related, im not going to even bother debating with you untill you start to talk some sense
T-I-G-E-R-M-A-N
6 Nov 2006, 19:06
Nah, Cooney is a gun but his a bit older I hope Dledio will keep improving next year as well
Well, it looks like Murph is pretty much the clear winner of this poll. No real surprise. The next poll I'm looking forward to next year is Bryce Gibbs V Marc Murphy - the ultimate elite midfield talent comparison. :)
Well, it looks like Murph is pretty much the clear winner of this poll. No real surprise. The next poll I'm looking forward to next year is Bryce Gibbs V Marc Murphy - the ultimate elite midfield talent comparison. :)
I'm staggered that Murphy is clearly the favourite - The question is who do you think will be the better player and people are judging a player who has barely played 15 games to two other players that have had 2-3 full seasons under their belts. Judge Murphy when he's had at least 2-3 seasons, he is still yet to prove himself.
A better poll would've been Deledio vs Cooney; or
Murphy vs Thomas
You can't compare apples with oranges
rick James
7 Nov 2006, 13:28
I'm staggered that Murphy is clearly the favourite - The question is who do you think will be the better player and people are judging a player who has barely played 15 games to two other players that have had 2-3 full seasons under their belts. Judge Murphy when he's had at least 2-3 seasons, he is still yet to prove himself.
A better poll would've been Deledio vs Cooney; or
Murphy vs Thomas
You can't compare apples with oranges
If you go on games played Deledio vs Cooney vs McLean would be much closer games played wise.
If you go on games played Deledio vs Cooney vs McLean would be much closer games played wise.
Pretty funny you trying to compare McLean to players a class or two above him. Admire your efforts throughout the year, but as you know, Brock will always be just an in-and-under little tough-nut, but nothing more. The Dees really lack top-shelf talent at the moment. Davey's probably the most talented on your list. :)
rick James
7 Nov 2006, 13:59
Pretty funny you trying to compare McLean to players a class or two above him. Admire your efforts throughout the year, but as you know, Brock will always be just an in-and-under little tough-nut, but nothing more. The Dees really lack top-shelf talent at the moment. Davey's probably the most talented on your list. :)
Indeed parrot, Mclean is a true battler and will hopefully one day be able to bring himself down to the lve of the likes of Walker, Murphy, Cooney, Griffen, Deledio, Mundy and so forth - but until that day comes he'll have to just be content being compared to Kerr, Judd, Burgoyne, Hodge and West.
I'm staggered that Murphy is clearly the favourite - The question is who do you think will be the better player and people are judging a player who has barely played 15 games to two other players that have had 2-3 full seasons under their belts. Judge Murphy when he's had at least 2-3 seasons, he is still yet to prove himself.
A better poll would've been Deledio vs Cooney; or
Murphy vs Thomas
You can't compare apples with oranges
Murphy has already proved himself more than Deledio has so your arguement is more than a little shaky in my book.
What would be the point of either of those polls? Cooney would win the first one with ease, and in the second the only people voting for Thomas would be the odd delusional Collingwood supporter.
rick James
7 Nov 2006, 15:12
Murphy has already proved himself more than Deledio has so your arguement is more than a little shaky in my book.
Neither of them have proved themselves imo. I would wager most peple would see it the same way.
Deledio reminds me of a faster, more athletic, Adam Cooney with slightly worse skills.
And Murphy reminds me a bit of Daniel Kerr.
But the fact is, neither of them have done a whole lot, and you wouldn't really have expected them to just yet anyway. they're still pretty young, and very few players can simply adjust to AFL football dominate immediately, the way Brock McLean, or even Chris Judd, has.
Coughlan
7 Nov 2006, 15:19
Murphy has already proved himself more than Deledio has so your arguement is more than a little shaky in my book.
um no he hasn't, care to expand, Murphy has played what 12 games or so? Deledio has proved himself a lot more then what murphy has, but still they both have a lot to prove still:rolleyes:
Realistic Tiger
7 Nov 2006, 15:35
Indeed parrot, Mclean is a true battler and will hopefully one day be able to bring himself down to the lve of the likes of Walker, Murphy, Cooney, Griffen, Deledio, Mundy and so forth - but until that day comes he'll have to just be content being compared to Kerr, Judd, Burgoyne, Hodge and West.
As long as 1 person compares McLean to Kerr, Judd, Burgoyne, Hodge and West then by definition it is a comparison, however until the majority of people make the same comparision then I guess you will just have to live in your own fantasy world.
rick James
7 Nov 2006, 15:39
As long as 1 person compares McLean to Kerr, Judd, Burgoyne, Hodge and West then by definition it is a comparison, however until the majority of people make the same comparision then I guess you will just have to live in your own fantasy world.
McLean is better than Hodge already.
McLean is better than Hodge already.
You sound a little needy don't you. Need some reassurance? Few niggling doubts? Concerned about the Dees lack of top-shelf talent? Huge laughs. :)
um no he hasn't, care to expand, Murphy has played what 12 games or so? Deledio has proved himself a lot more then what murphy has, but still they both have a lot to prove still:rolleyes:
He's played more games but that doesn't mean he's proven himself more than Murphy, it just means he's played more games.