View Full Version : Is Brock McLean over-rated?
Hodge2Franklin
7 Nov 2006, 23:15
I haven't paid for the polls but listening to Rick James, day after day just makes me sick. Brock McLean is a great pleayer but will never be a champion or in the leagues of Deledio or Griffin.
This is the thread where we all let RJ know he is a dreamer.
philhawk
7 Nov 2006, 23:18
No, he's a freakin' gun.
End matter.
Hodge2Franklin
7 Nov 2006, 23:20
No, he's a freakin' gun.
End Thread.
So would you swap Franklin for him?
What about Birchall?
Get a grip Phil old boy he is over-rated and RJ needs to stop with the vaseline.
philhawk
7 Nov 2006, 23:21
So would you swap Franklin for him?
What about Birchall?
Get a grip Phil old boy he is over-rated and RJ needs to stop with the vaseline.
I wouldnt swap him with those players because i'm biased and subsequently made favourites of both Franklin and Birchall whilst they've played for the Hawks.
It doesnt prevent McLean from being a fantastic player within his own rights though. To be honest, he'll probably win a Brownlow by the end of his career.
Hodge2Franklin
7 Nov 2006, 23:24
I wouldnt swap him with those players because i'm biased and subsequently made favourites of both Franklin and Birchall whilst they've played for the Hawks.
It doesnt prevent McLean from being a fantastic player within his own rights though. To be honest, he'll probably win a Brownlow as well by the end of his career.
He'll never win a brownlow.
man BigFooty is so obsessed with him. The reason I have thrown him up is that my close firend is a Melbourne supporter so I went to a lot of Melbourne games last year.
I actually talked to him today about Brock because of all this who-ha and he said he is a great player but no super-star.
McLean = AA maybe one day, but will never be a superstar of the competition.
Hodge2Franklin
7 Nov 2006, 23:26
I wouldnt swap him with those players because i'm biased and subsequently made favourites of both Franklin and Birchall whilst they've played for the Hawks.
It doesnt prevent McLean from being a fantastic player within his own rights though. To be honest, he'll probably win a Brownlow by the end of his career.
Would you swap Judd for him?
What about Johnathon Brown?
Silly I know but it makes my point, Brock will never be in the elite.
You all are just thinking about his final last year and did not watch him enough throughout the season.
How did he poll in the Brownlow???
philhawk
7 Nov 2006, 23:35
Would you swap Judd for him?
What about Johnathon Brown?
Silly I know but it makes my point
Not really, it just makes you look silly comparing the two best players in the game to a promising, still-developing young player who still has a fair way to go first and foremost be the same age as those players.
That said, even in comparison to Judd statistically, he doesn't fare too 'badly'.
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=109&pid1=2004063&tid2=116&pid2=2002147
Brock will never be in the elite.
Based on what?
How did he poll in the Brownlow???
Not sure, cant recall. But if my memory serves me right, didnt he rack up 9 Brownlow votes in 2005 as a 19 year old? ...
Bartram_Class
7 Nov 2006, 23:37
You have lost all your respect in this thread by asking how he polled in the brownlow.
Players arent rated on how they poll in the Brownlow, Woewodin won one FFS.
McLean is an awesome player and overrated by no-one, we have the right to rate our youngsters just like you rate Franklin or Birchall. He is almost the best player in our team, a team that finished 6th overall.
How hard is it to acknowledge that other clubs can have decent young players? I will happily go on record and say Franklin and to a lesser extent Birchall will be guns of the competition in a couple of years. RJ can say all he wants about McLean's prowess, the kids a brilliant footballer.
EDIT: Yeh Phil, 3 BOGs in 2005 in his 2nd year on the list.
philhawk
7 Nov 2006, 23:39
You have lost all your respect in this thread by asking how he polled in the brownlow.
Players arent rated on how they poll in the Brownlow, Woewodin won one FFS.
McLean is an awesome player and overrated by no-one, we have the right to rate our youngsters just like you rate Franklin or Birchall. He is almost the best player in our team, a team that finished 6th overall.
How hard is it to acknowledge that other clubs can have decent young players? I will happily go on record and say Franklin and to a lesser extent Birchall will be guns of the competition in a couple of years. RJ can say all he wants about McLean's prowess, the kids a brilliant footballer.
EDIT: Yeh Phil, 3 BOGs in 2005 in his 2nd year on the list.
Bingo - Therein lies the problem with a certain few posters within BigFooty.
Hodge2Franklin
7 Nov 2006, 23:40
You have lost all your respect in this thread by asking how he polled in the brownlow.
Players arent rated on how they poll in the Brownlow, Woewodin won one FFS.
McLean is an awesome player and overrated by no-one, we have the right to rate our youngsters just like you rate Franklin or Birchall. He is almost the best player in our team, a team that finished 6th overall.
How hard is it to acknowledge that other clubs can have decent young players? I will happily go on record and say Franklin and to a lesser extent Birchall will be guns of the competition in a couple of years. RJ can say all he wants about McLean's prowess, the kids a brilliant footballer.
EDIT: Yeh Phil, 3 BOGs in 2005 in his 2nd year on the list.
I'm not bagging McLean its just that RJ would have us think he is better than Deledio, Griffin, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy and others.
At this stage this is simply not true.
McLean has not come out like Judd did and set the world on fire and until he does he cannot be called a superstar.
Hodge2Franklin
7 Nov 2006, 23:42
Bingo - Therein lies the problem with a certain few posters within BigFooty.
Phil STFU I have been reading your posts for years and now that your a mod you talk crap. If I could be bothered I could drag out dozens of examples of you saying almost the identical thing that I am now.
There is nothing wrong with loyalty and loving your own players but RJ takes is too far.
Bartram_Class
7 Nov 2006, 23:53
I'm not bagging McLean its just that RJ would have us think he is better than Deledio, Griffin, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy and others.
At this stage this is simply not true.
McLean has not come out like Judd did and set the world on fire and until he does he cannot be called a superstar.
I reckon any 20 year old that can average 20+ possesions a game has to be regarded as a superstar or at the very least, a potential superstar.
All the players you mentioned there are very good players but McLean has done one thing all of them have failed to do so far and thats a BOG in a cut throat finals encounter, taking the game by the scruff of the neck and lifting his team to victory.
Give it 5 or so years and this group (McLean, Lids, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy, Thomas) will be the new Judd, Cousins, Riewoldt, Brown, Kerr, Hall
Phil STFU I have been reading your posts for years and now that your a mod you talk crap. If I could be bothered I could drag out dozens of examples of you saying almost the identical thing that I am now.
There is nothing wrong with loyalty and loving your own players but RJ takes is too far.
Thats crap mate, I regard Phil as one of the better posters on BF, i dont mind posters who talk up their youngsters, there isnt a poster on here who doesnt but at least Phil can stand there and admit others are just as good and not just over-rated by their supporters on a meaningless forum.
delirious1
7 Nov 2006, 23:58
Great player, probably over-rated by melbourne fans, but then again some hawks fans when franklin had a good game you would see 6 "franklin is a superstar" threads
I haven't paid for the polls but listening to Rick James, day after day just makes me sick. Brock McLean is a great pleayer but will never be a champion or in the leagues of Deledio or Griffin.
This is the thread where we all let RJ know he is a dreamer.
RJ might be a dreamer but he's got more of a clue than you. McLean is already in those two's league. Probably one or two leagues above deledio. He missed a bunch of games this year and still shat all over deledio.
Would you swap Judd for him?
What about Johnathon Brown?
Silly I know but it makes my point, Brock will never be in the elite.
You all are just thinking about his final last year and did not watch him enough throughout the season.
How did he poll in the Brownlow???
Stupid comments. Of course you wouldn't swap judd or brown for him. is that the benchmark for a star these days? Anyone who west coast wouldn't give judd up for isn't a star? There ain't many going round if that's the case. it doesn't even come close to making your point. it makes you look like a moron. Brock may never be as good as judd, but most likely niether will anyone else playing today.
He polled 9 votes even though that doesn't mean much. deledio polled 0. griffen 5, cooney 4, franklin 5. in the b&f he finished third in a team that won a final (i shouldn't say team, one player won that game for melbourne, if only i could remember who). deledio was outside the top 10 in a team that finished outside the finals. i'm assuming 9th coz it's richmond but not sure.
i just remembered who won that final for melbourne - McLean
i saw him play about five games and the final wasn't his best (at least not easily).
I'm not bagging McLean its just that RJ would have us think he is better than Deledio, Griffin, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy and others.
At this stage this is simply not true.
McLean has not come out like Judd did and set the world on fire and until he does he cannot be called a superstar.
RJ would be making a good point. He is on par with griffen, more consistent than cooney and franklin, and a long way ahead of deledio. Murph's only played 12 and a bit games and will be a champion, but so will mclean and griffen (and probably cooney and franklin).
That closing line would have to be the most STUPID things i have ever heard. Until someone sets the world on fire like judd they aren't a star. Sh1t sorry, you are right then. i didn't realised a player had to be as good as judd to be a star. that means there's, what 2 stars going around? maybe 3? d1ckhead
I'm not bagging McLean its just that RJ would have us think he is better than Deledio, Griffin, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy and others.
At this stage this is simply not true.
McLean has not come out like Judd did and set the world on fire and until he does he cannot be called a superstar.
Thats because he is just as good as those players - if not better, he is definately way more consistent than Deledio, Griffin and Cooney. Did you watch the Melbourne vs St. Kilda elimination final? He pretty much won the game for the 'Dees
Mclean overated - no way , he's player with grunt who gos hard for the ball , 15 other coaches would love to have him on their lists.
Adelaide Hawk
8 Nov 2006, 05:55
I don't think McLean is over-rated in most footy circles but he certainly is on BigFooty.
Theseventhhamster
8 Nov 2006, 05:58
No, he's a freakin' gun.
End matter.
This is Bay 13 Phil, you're meant to say that he isn't fit to clean your captain's shoes. Lift your game mod.
Coughlan
8 Nov 2006, 12:44
I haven't paid for the polls but listening to Rick James, day after day just makes me sick. Brock McLean is a great pleayer but will never be a champion or in the leagues of Deledio or Griffin.
This is the thread where we all let RJ know he is a dreamer.
no Mclean isnt over rated, is an out and out gun, the dreamer is you for thinking otherwise, and BTW it doesnt cost a cent to make a poll, so i take it as you knew that you would get slaughtered in a poll, or you really are just stupid:thumbsu:
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 12:53
Would you swap Judd for him?
What about Johnathon Brown?
Silly I know but it makes my point, Brock will never be in the elite.
You all are just thinking about his final last year and did not watch him enough throughout the season.
How did he poll in the Brownlow???
If you offered Griffen or Deledio + a good draft pick for McLean I would knock it back. I would wager I'm not the only Melbourne supporter who would do the same either.
Stop lying abuot going to lots of Melbourne games, or having a friend. You claimed he got his reputation on the back of one good final (one more final than Luke Hodge has played btw) - so clearly you didn't go to any Melbourne games last year.
You know jack sh*t about football if you think Franklin, Deledio, Griffen or Birchall haev shown anywhere near the amount of talent Brock has so far.
From an MFC point of view we haven't had a youngster play this well and show this much promise since David Schwarz imo.
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 12:56
I'm not bagging McLean its just that RJ would have us think he is better than Deledio, Griffin, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy and others.
At this stage this is simply not true.
McLean has not come out like Judd did and set the world on fire and until he does he cannot be called a superstar.
He is better than all of those players by a decent margin at this point in time, and has played close to the same amount of games as Deledio.
This ins't to say they won't all be better players, or that none of them will be better than him. But at this point not one of those players is as good at football as McLean is. They don't have the same impact he does, and they aren't as consistent as he is.
If you don't know that, you simply aren't qualified to have an opinion on this matter. It shouldn't even be up for discussion.
CaptainDavey
8 Nov 2006, 12:59
If anything he doesn't recieve as much attention as he should outside the confines of BigFooty...Which is a good thing I reckon!
No way near overrated, is a freak talent, mature beyond his years. It's not very often a player of his calibre comes along and I'm sure as hell glad he's playing for us. Not only that, but he looks so comfortable running around in the famous #5 jersey of ours!:thumbsu:
And no, I wouldn't take Deledio or Griffen for him, nor Murphy or Franklin
Coin_Toss
8 Nov 2006, 13:00
I thought he was overrated, but should be a good player for Melbourne - consistenly good, I guess.
McLean is already in those two's league. Probably one or two leagues above deledio.
Spot on.
A league above all three actually not just Deledio.
There is no doubting McLeans talent. He is top shelf and could go that step further into superstardom with a good 2007.
But I do worry that if rJ ever gets him alone, the poor boy will never walk, let alone run, the same way again.
Be afraid Brock....be very, very afraid.
I'm not bagging McLean its just that RJ would have us think he is better than Deledio, Griffin, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy and others.
At this stage this is simply not true.
McLean has not come out like Judd did and set the world on fire and until he does he cannot be called a superstar.
That's where your argument falls apart, he is better at this stage than any of the players you mentioned. No-one knows what the future will bring. By the way, there has been a poll (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266661&highlight=brock+mclean)about young midfielders, perhaps you're just jealous or you've really let RJ troll you to ignorance?
bringbackschwarter5
8 Nov 2006, 15:54
Brock Mclean ********s all over the entire Hawks team
BudddddyLove
8 Nov 2006, 16:00
Brock Mclean ********s all over the entire Hawks team
You are a one-eyed f**kwit if you think that is the case. You have obviously never watched a hawthorn match.
Monkeyboy
8 Nov 2006, 16:55
Absolute gun.
McLean>Hodge
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 17:02
You are a one-eyed f**kwit if you think that is the case. You have obviously never watched a hawthorn match.
Actually, in all seriousness, the only player on your list who I would compare to Brock is Hodge and I reckon Brock's better (though it's hard to say as Brock's younger but Hodge has a worse team around him).
BudddddyLove
8 Nov 2006, 17:04
Absolute gun.
McLean>Hodge
Until McLean can get a BF and AA selection I think that is complete bs, if we're gonna go on raw talent franklin>neitz
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 17:10
Until McLean can get a BF and AA selection I think that is complete bs, if we're gonna go on raw talent franklin>neitz
McLean would have had both this year had he not missed 6 games through injury. (finished 3rd in our BnF btw)
And he would have had them playing in the guts, not getting cheapies on the wing and half back
mad-saint-guy
8 Nov 2006, 17:15
He's without a doubt the best under 21 midfielder in the comp but he is overrated. Many people are now putting him in with the best 10 midfielders of the AFL, but he's just not that good yet.
In time he will be a long-serving captain and will earn multiple AA selections but right now he's just a good player.
very good footballer and very over rated on BF in terms of his talent... Hodges best>>>>>>>daylight>>>>>McLeans best. He's what you would call a warhorse, a warrior ever reliable a bit like Scott West but with a better kick. Off the top of my head I'd take Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Burgoyne, Ball, Dal Santo, Power, Hodge, Mitchell over him. All of those listed off the top of my head are more talented than Brock, Mitchell the exception, but hes a better clearance king than anyone going around so I'd have him in my side.
As for the melbourne supporters claiming he's up there with Judd, get ur hands off it, nowhere near that level.
he will be a champion for the dees, not sure about the whole competition though, he has to sting as couple of great seasons together, not just 1/2 a season.
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 17:22
very good footballer and very over rated on BF in terms of his talent... Hodges best>>>>>>>daylight>>>>>McLeans best. He's what you would call a warhorse, a warrior ever reliable a bit like Scott West but with a better kick. Off the top of my head I'd take Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Burgoyne, Ball, Dal Santo, Power, Hodge, Mitchell over him. All of those listed off the top of my head are more talented than Brock, Mitchell the exception, but hes a better clearance king than anyone going around so I'd have him in my side.
As for the melbourne supporters claiming he's up there with Judd, get ur hands off it, nowhere near that level.
Brock is consistent yes, but he also goes up a gear when its needed. Name a game Hodge played that was better than McLeans final against St Kilda.
McLean's best is impressive, not for the way he does it, but the fact he just does it.
OneEyedHawk
8 Nov 2006, 17:35
I'm not bagging McLean its just that RJ would have us think he is better than Deledio, Griffin, Cooney, Franklin, Murphy and others.
At this stage this is simply not true.
McLean has not come out like Judd did and set the world on fire and until he does he cannot be called a superstar.
At this stage I'd say he has all those players covered.
There is alot of hype surrounding him on BF...but for good reason.
BudddddyLove
8 Nov 2006, 17:47
Brock is consistent yes, but he also goes up a gear when its needed. Name a game Hodge played that was better than McLeans final against St Kilda.
McLean's best is impressive, not for the way he does it, but the fact he just does it.
This pathetic excuse that McLeans played in a final therefore he is better than Hodge is just stupid. McLean has played in a final because he has been in a better team and he lifted a gear to help Melbourne win that final. Who's to say that Hodge when he is fit and firing won't do the same if Hawthorn make a final.
RickJames I think you seem to forgot that before last year Hodge won a BF and finished AA. He was a clearance king who used to dominate in the middle. This year he had injuries that crippled him and forced him to play off half back and get "cheap possessions". And in your response to Hodge having a better game than McLean's, his game vs Geelong in round 3 was better. Just because it was a final doesn't mean McLean's game was better. Also R8 2005 I believe our midfield of Hodge/Mitchell/Crawford/Bateman absolutely spanked your midfield of McLean/Sylvia/Johnstone/McDonald/Moloney that day which goes to show when we have a fit and firing midfield, ours is just as good as yours.
bringbackschwarter5
8 Nov 2006, 18:16
You are a one-eyed f**kwit if you think that is the case. You have obviously never watched a hawthorn match.
Well i was there when Melbourne beat the Hawks by 70 odd points this year, what were the hawks young guns doing that day
At this stage I'd say he has all those players covered.
There is alot of hype surrounding him on BF...but for good reason.
he has all those player cover now, wait until they reach their prime in about 08' mclean who?
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 19:27
This pathetic excuse that McLeans played in a final therefore he is better than Hodge is just stupid. McLean has played in a final because he has been in a better team and he lifted a gear to help Melbourne win that final. Who's to say that Hodge when he is fit and firing won't do the same if Hawthorn make a final.
RickJames I think you seem to forgot that before last year Hodge won a BF and finished AA. He was a clearance king who used to dominate in the middle. This year he had injuries that crippled him and forced him to play off half back and get "cheap possessions". And in your response to Hodge having a better game than McLean's, his game vs Geelong in round 3 was better. Just because it was a final doesn't mean McLean's game was better. Also R8 2005 I believe our midfield of Hodge/Mitchell/Crawford/Bateman absolutely spanked your midfield of McLean/Sylvia/Johnstone/McDonald/Moloney that day which goes to show when we have a fit and firing midfield, ours is just as good as yours.
Excuse me numbnuts, but I never claimed McLean was better because he played in a final. I'm tipping you just read the word 'final' and though I did, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
What round 8 2005 showed is that when your midfield is fit and firing, and our team is severely depleted through injury, you can beat us. Congratulations. McLean had played 16 games at that stage - and he was still about the only Melbourne player actually damaging you guys that day. Your midfield is nowhere near as good as ours, that's a fact.
McLean would have won a BnF and had AA this year had he not missed 6 games. McLean IS a clearance machine (gets more clearances per time on ground than anyone else in the comp) and he DOES dominate the middle AND he plays injured as well.
McLean is more damaging than Hodge, ANd he's more consistent than Hodge, AND he's a better leader than Hodge - that's my opinion on it and I won't be swayed because I'm right.
FWIW - I rate Hodge as the second best young midfielder in the comp behind McLean so don't tell me I under rate him, I just rate McLean higher.
rick James
8 Nov 2006, 19:27
he has all those player cover now, wait until they reach their prime in about 08' mclean who?
McLean has only palyed as many games as Deledio. Wait til he hits HIS prime.
nick_savo
8 Nov 2006, 19:54
I dont think McLean is ova-rated at all.
He will b a champion 4 the dees in years 2 cum.
Cassius_Clay
8 Nov 2006, 20:10
So would you swap Franklin for him?
What about Birchall?
Get a grip Phil old boy he is over-rated and RJ needs to stop with the vaseline.
Dude,
McLean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Birchall
dutchy12
8 Nov 2006, 20:10
McLean is the most exciting young player since Judd. Who else in their first three years had made such an impact. Hodge really only came on his 4th year and where did Hawthorn finish 14th.
He is a champion something Melbourne has not had since Flower. All you Hawks supporters should be supporting him, he's probably the only man who can bring the premship cup back to Victoria in the next 5 years