Nirvana vs Pearl Jam

[BW]

Out of these 2 grunge bands, which do you prefer.

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by blueworms
Out of these 2 grunge bands, which do you prefer.

Nirvana were a grunge band, Pearl Jam were a polished rock band. Henceforth your poll is flawed.:D

ps, awaits Hitters lunacy regarding Pearl Jam.;)

[SydneyBomber]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


Nirvana were a grunge band, Pearl Jam were a polished rock band. Henceforth your poll is flawed.:D


:D

Don't like either, but I know I hate Pearl Jam a helluva lot more!

Sorry!
:p

[Mr Eagle]

Nirvana were good because they breathed new life into rock music in the early 90s and produced some absolutely iconic songs in the process. Pearl Jam are better because they did the same thing AND THEN kept going with it. So PJ kinda win by default, on the grounds that Eddie Vedder is still with us...

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
ps, awaits Hitters lunacy regarding Pearl Jam.;)

Now now Frank, no need to pre-empt me.

I love both bands, and own every album of each. They are my two favorite bands of all time, and it is so tough for me to seperate them.

That said, I rate Pearl Jam the best band ever, and Nirvana second.

Maybe it's because whenever I am down, I can whack on PJ and I instantly feel better. Perhaps it is because they have changed over the years, but haven't lost their touch, or sold out. Could be Eddie Vedder's noises in between lyrics, or their magical live albums - whatever it is, Pearl Jam stand out for me.

Lunacy Frank? Maybe, but aren't we all a little bit crazy? ;) :D

The Hitman

[Macca19]

Originally posted by The Hitman

Could be Eddie Vedder's noises in between lyrics

noises?? Does he have bad flatulence? :D

[jod23]

Nirvana for me...PJ are good but they never really had what Nirvana had.

[coxon]

nirvana

[35eye]

Pearl Jam for me with healthy respect for Nirvana.

I saw a cover band tonight who butchered the song Black but the sentiment was still there. God I loved that song, I just seemed to forget somewhere along the lines.

I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
In somebody else's sky, but why
Why, why can't it be, why can't it be mine

That killer bridge in Alive... WOW!

I really love that song Yellow Ledbetter. I dunno if anyone knows what its about but the song is just so sweet. Just meaningless ramblings really. I've heard different lyrics sung on different bootlegs so it keeps you guessing.

I loved the first two albums but I guess I lost any serious interest in the band beyond that. It became hard to enjoy the music without the whole Vedder attitude coming through the media which was a put off at the time. Having said that, I think I might go back and rediscover Vitalogy onwards.

I saw them live in Canberra a few years back and it was a great show. I remember them performing the H&C song Throw Your Arms Around Me and at the time they was also doing Split Enz songs at other shows around the country. That was cool.

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by 35eye
I really love that song Yellow Ledbetter. I dunno if anyone knows what its about but the song is just so sweet. Just meaningless ramblings really. I've heard different lyrics sung on different bootlegs so it keeps you guessing.


Yup, beautiful song. It's a B-side off the Daughter single I think.

Black is their best and most beautiful song, and the lyrics you posted then 35eye have been my signature before.

You are lucky to see them live. I have to see them live. I'm just scared that they'll never come back. :(

Just listening to the PJ Live On Two Legs CD.

"This one's called the longest title in the Pearl Jam catalogue: Elderly Woman Behind the Counter In a Small Town. One two, three. Four, two three..."

:D :D :D

The Hitman

[The_Flying_Egg]

Pearl Jam are my favourite band of all time. And I think Norvana are one of the most over-rated bands of all time.

Ten was more succesful than Nevermind, but Nirvana are more famous coz Kurt topped himself. The only good thing to come out of Nirvana is the Foo Fighters

I reckon PJ's best songs are Betterman, Alive, Daughter, Black, Jeremy and Given to Fly

[35eye]

I forgot to mention State of Love & Trust. The first time I heard it was from watching the Unplugged show and I just instantly loved it. I've got a couple of songs that up lift me when I'm feeling down and this is one of them. I know its a really dark song but that one line Eddie sings, Hey na na na na hey that's something, is just like some kind of mantra for me.

I remember eagerly anticipating the movie Singles coming out and just dying to see Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains & Soundgarden on the big screen. I was so rapt when State of Love & Trust came on, that was a really really well chosen sound track.

[Muddy]

Both are awesome bands, the music now doesnt compare to the music of the early 90's, but for me Soundgarden were the Kings of Seattle.

[neville]

Nirvana (over time)

Ten was one of the greatest albums ever made. Then everytime Pearl Jam released a new album it was worse than the previous. The last couple seemed like they didn’t care anymore.

[FIGJAM]

Pearl Jam have been on a gradual decline since Ten, which is disappointing.

Nirvana had a short but sweet career and their music typified the time. Only three real albums, one long B-side EP banger and a couple of live ones.

Nirvana for mine, cause it's ballsier and they weren't in decline. PJ have let them selves down more and more, but I agree songs like Black are just perfect.

Gotta mention Alice and Soundgarden who were more metal than grunge, but still f*cken rocked!

[RoosLuver]

I like both...

[Richmondfan#1]

Nirvana for me. I just prefer their music.

[BT]

Nirvana!!!

It's been all downhill since Ten for PJ in my opinion. They have some good songs but Nirvana really grabbed my attention.

[roobear]

Nirvana for mine.

I will never understand how Pearl Jam can be responsible for the brilliance of Daughter, Alive and Better Man, but also Jeremy and Even Flow.
:confused:

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
Pearl Jam are my favourite band of all time. And I think Norvana are one of the most over-rated bands of all time.

Ten was more succesful than Nevermind, but Nirvana are more famous coz Kurt topped himself. The only good thing to come out of Nirvana is the Foo Fighters

I reckon PJ's best songs are Betterman, Alive, Daughter, Black, Jeremy and Given to Fly

Over rated!!! If Nirvana are overrated what do you call Pearl Jam??? Nevermind had sold literally millions of copies BEFORE Kurt committed suicide, and the band's music is far more influential than PJ's ever was. Before Smells Like Teen Spirit - songs like that would not have even been considered for 'rock' radio stations such as MMM.

Santos is correct - PJ, especially from vs onwards were nothing more than a rock band riding on the tailcoats of 'grunge' because they happened to be from the same city. Grunge as a genre only applies to a few bands - Nirvana, Mudhoney, TAD etc. Many other bands were labelled grunge because journos were too lazy to call them anything else.

Ten may have been more successful commercially, but you cannot measure a band solely on success. Look at how many artists name Nirvana as one of their main influences.

The only benefit Nirvana got from Kurt's suicide was the band ended before they declined to release albums of complete garbage like Pearl Jam have the past 5 years. Would Nirvana have gone the same path? No one knows - but In Utero indicated a less commercial, but IMHO more credible form of music. The only material recorded post In Utero is still in the hands of a certain Ms. Love however.

Anyway, in summary, Pearl Jam are a good band with some very good songs - Nirvana are one of the truly great bands (and they were a BAND - until Grohl joined they were struggling a bit, you can literally hear the difference once Dave joined) who will be remembered as changing the music landscape in a far greater way than Pearl Jam ever will.

[The_Flying_Egg]

Originally posted by GOALden Hawk


Over rated!!! If Nirvana are overrated what do you call Pearl Jam??? Nevermind had sold literally millions of copies BEFORE Kurt committed suicide, and the band's music is far more influential than PJ's ever was. Before Smells Like Teen Spirit - songs like that would not have even been considered for 'rock' radio stations such as MMM.

Santos is correct - PJ, especially from vs onwards were nothing more than a rock band riding on the tailcoats of 'grunge' because they happened to be from the same city. Grunge as a genre only applies to a few bands - Nirvana, Mudhoney, TAD etc. Many other bands were labelled grunge because journos were too lazy to call them anything else.

Ten may have been more successful commercially, but you cannot measure a band solely on success. Look at how many artists name Nirvana as one of their main influences.

The only benefit Nirvana got from Kurt's suicide was the band ended before they declined to release albums of complete garbage like Pearl Jam have the past 5 years. Would Nirvana have gone the same path? No one knows - but In Utero indicated a less commercial, but IMHO more credible form of music. The only material recorded post In Utero is still in the hands of a certain Ms. Love however.

Anyway, in summary, Pearl Jam are a good band with some very good songs - Nirvana are one of the truly great bands (and they were a BAND - until Grohl joined they were struggling a bit, you can literally hear the difference once Dave joined) who will be remembered as changing the music landscape in a far greater way than Pearl Jam ever will.

Firstly Pearl Jam are yet to release a bad album. Binaural and No Code are not as good as the others, but they're still better than anything any other band in the world is doing

And u ask whether Nirvana would have gone the same path? We'll never know because Kurt liked the taste of guns and haven't released anything for the last 10 years, while since 10 PJ have released albums like Vitalogy, V's and Yield.

Surely an important test for a band is how long they can hang around for and still make great music. Nirvana failed that one

And who cares if they're grunge or not? What does that matter, either way they're the greatest band in the world

And Nirvana are over-rated for one reason. Cobain was a gutless bastard and topped himself. Because of that they became mopre famous than they would have if they kept going. If Vedder was the psychotic one PJ would be viewed as more famous and influential

Its like people on the AFL board putting Millane in the best players of the last 20 years. Its only because they had controversial deaths

[Pointy Birds]

No doubt about it - it's Kurt's mob.

Pearl Jam sound too much like Creed.

[NYMets]

I love Pearl Jam....I'da put them up against the Chilis rather than Nirvana.

I taped the Jam unplugged off the TV a while back and it's still one of my fav tapes.

[Mr Eagle]

Originally posted by roobear
I will never understand how Pearl Jam can be responsible for the brilliance of Daughter, Alive and Better Man, but also Jeremy and Even Flow.:confused:
WTF??? Jeremy is one of their most powerful songs! (certainly the most controversial by a long shot...)

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Mr Eagle

WTF??? Jeremy is one of their most powerful songs! (certainly the most controversial by a long shot...)

Also the best clip I have ever seen. Very powerful.

The Hitman

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by The Hitman


Also the best clip I have ever seen. Very powerful.

The Hitman

It gives me the bejebies. Its a freaky adventure

[dbhattarai]

Pearl Jam, easily.

Am i the only one here that likes Last Kiss?

[dogs105]

Originally posted by dbhattarai
Pearl Jam, easily.

Am i the only one here that likes Last Kiss?

probably.

[Grimace]

Originally posted by Pointy Birds
No doubt about it - it's Kurt's mob.

Pearl Jam sound too much like Creed.

don't you mean Creed try to sound like Pearl Jam?

or

Scott Stapp tries to sound like Eddie Vedder?

[Porthos]

I like Ten. I don't particularly like any Pearl Jam after that.

I like all of Nirvana's stuff.

I like Soundgarden's stuff best of all, especially Superunknown (the album, not the song)

I like Temple Of The Dog.

I even like some Stone Temple Pilots.

I like Alice in Chains in moderation.

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Grimace


don't you mean Creed try to sound like Pearl Jam?

or

Scott Stapp tries to sound like Eddie Vedder?

Is sarcasm lost on you Mr Grimace?;)

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Porthos
I like Ten. I don't particularly like any Pearl Jam after that.

I like all of Nirvana's stuff.

I like Soundgarden's stuff best of all, especially Superunknown (the album, not the song)

I like Temple Of The Dog.

I even like some Stone Temple Pilots.

I like Alice in Chains in moderation.

Porthos, you left out the best of the lot........Mudhoney.

[Porthos]

Actually, I didn't. Mudhoney were nobodies :D

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Porthos
Actually, I didn't. Mudhoney were nobodies :D

Ok well if Mudhoney had not been around, many of those bands you like would not have existed. Mudhoney invented that 'grunge' sound and before anyone tells me that Green River did it first, they were NOT grunge. Mudhoney started it, the rest followed. :D

[The Hitman]

Now I have "Here comes sickness, here comes sicknessssssss" stuck in my head. :p

The Hitman

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Ok well if Mudhoney had not been around, many of those bands you like would not have existed. Mudhoney invented that 'grunge' sound and before anyone tells me that Green River did it first, they were NOT grunge. Mudhoney started it, the rest followed. :D .....and improved on it greatly :D

[Grimace]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


Is sarcasm lost on you Mr Grimace?;)

Mister? :confused:
gee, i sound like a boy :( :p

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Porthos
.....and improved on it greatly :D

Wrong again.......they just made more money.:p

[manutd/dogs]

Research File:

Your first task is to compile a research file and this assignment is worth 25%.
According to Murray and White a research file * sets out the history, state of public dialogue, the last time the topic was news, and the main issues (no more than 250 words) * lists all secondary, electronic and primary sources to be consulted.
The research file should consist of a synopsis of no more than 250 words outlining what the subject is and what theme/angle you are taking on the subject.
You should also try to include some background to the subject, for example what has previously been covered in relation to this topic and what new or original angle you hope to cover. Be sure to include some specific factual information at this point and just don't waffle on with generalities.
The chosen topic should have currency and have sufficient depth to allow you to demonstrate your ability to consult a wide range of sources. The synopsis should be followed by details of the key secondary, primary and electronic sources that you will be consulting when you write up the article.
The primary sources should give the names, addresses and telephone numbers of the people you would interview and a brief explanation of why they are relevant to your topic. You should also give full details of secondary sources and also explain briefly what information you hope they will provide. One sentence under each entry should be sufficient, although there is no word count limit to this section. Before commencing you should revise and be clear in your own mind as to what are primary and secondary sources.
Useful references are in Murray and White (Chapter One), Mandy Oakham's Don’t Bury The Lead (Chapter Two), Sally White's Reporting in Australia (Chapters Three and Four). Students always ask how long should the research file be. There can be no answer to that and your assessor will not be counting words, but do remember if you want to do well in this unit you will be demonstrating that you have carried out extensive research and you will want to include a wide range of sources to show that you have made yourself a "mini-expert" on this subject.

Synopsis/Angle
The topic of my research file is the Regional Fast Rail Project for Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong and the Latrobe Valley. Being allocated $550 million by the State Government's 'Growing Victoria' fund, it will provide faster rail links between these cities using 160kmph modern, diesel trains. The project is expected to speed up train travel times around regional Victoria, with the Melbourne to Geelong route expected to be over six minutes faster. The project is being implemented with the support of V-Line Passenger and Freight Australia, who are the private sector rail operators and track access providers affected by the project. The trains will offer new passenger information systems, temperature-controlled carriages, a carpeted saloon area, ergonomic seats and moveable armrests. Several regional stations will aslo be upgraded as part of the project. At present, the State Government is evaluating bidders to complete the project, which is due to start late this year, and is expected to be completed in late 2005.
The choosing of bidders is imperative as to whether semi-rural stations such as Werribee are included as stops. And therein lies my angle. If Werribee is not included, then this could have a massive impact for the city. People who depend on the current service to commute to and from Werribee and Geelong on a daily/weekly basis could end up having to find alternate ways of transportation. Thus, a significant portion of Werribee and Geelong's workforces (not to mention hundreds of Deakin University students) would be greatly disadvantaged. This could have an adverse effect to the growth of Werribee's comunity and infrastructure. Therefore, I will focus on the potential effect this may have on the people and the government's response to all of this (if and how they intend to fix it).

History/Background
The project was announced on the 5th of October.
Construction works are expected to include:
* upgrading of track (rail, fasteners, sleepers, ballast)
* formation and bridge structures to accommodate trains travelling at speeds up to 160km/h;
* modification and upgrading of signalling and the introduction of control and protection systems to ensure improved operation and safety;
* treatment of level crossings to ensure safe operation for the faster train speeds; possible route diversions to reduce travelled distance;
* and track duplication and/or passing loops.

State of Public Dialogue
The state of public dialogue over this topic is coming from a few main sources: the State Government, the Opposition and the Public Transport Users Association.
The State Government considers the Regional Fast Rail Project to be a major boon for regional Victoria in a myriad of ways:

improve the frequency, reliability and comfort of regional rail services;
create thousands of jobs during construction of the works and manufacture of the new trains, including many jobs in regional Victoria;
create new business opportunities;
increase patronage on the four lines;
boost population by more than 20,000 along the railway lines;
boost tourism, a critical industry and big employer in regional Victoria;
reduce growth pressures on Melbourne's urban fringe;
reduce congestion on major roads connecting regional centres to Melbourne; and
benefit the environment by attracting people from road to rail travel.
They have promised that all travellers along the fast rail corridors, not only the users of the fast rail express services, will benefit from the reduced travel times and improved rail services the project will provide.
The Opposition, namely the Shadow Minister for Transport, are voicing serious doubts over the State Government's sources of funding for this project, saying that certain costs have blown out to several times the amount previously expected (see below) and are publicly asking where the extra funds are going to come from.
The third major group, inextricably attached to this issue, are the Public Transport Users Association.

Primary Sources:

Cr. Ian Bunn
Mayor of Wyndham
Address: 45 Princes Hwy, Werribee, 3030
Ph.: (03) 9749 8337
Fax: (03) 9749 8337
Email: ibunn@wyndham.vic.gov.au
The Mayor of Wyndham would have some interesting views on the subject, as I am sure that he and his fellow councillors would be upset if Werribee was not included in the project, as it would definitely have an negative effect on the growth and overall prosperity of Wyndham.

Hon. Peter Bachelor MLA
Minister for Transport and Major Projects
Address: 219 High Street, Thomastown 3074.
Ph.: (03) 9465 7533
Fax: (03) 9465 3656
Email: peter.batchelor@parliament.vic.gov.au
As the Minister for Transport and Major Projects, (the Fast Rail Project belongs to both portfolios) Peter Bachelor is an integral source and will know everything there is to know about the project.

Mr Geoffrey Graeme Leigh MLA
Shadow Transport Minister
Address: Suite 5A, 10 Jamieson Street, Cheltenham 3192
Ph.: (03) 9584 4013
Fax: (03) 9585 0046
Email: geoff.leigh.@parliament.vic.gov.au
As Peter Bachelor's political counterpart, Mr Leigh will hopefully provide some differing views and some diversity of opinion on the matter. Or he may also be able to provide me with new information that Mr Bachelor did not know or not wish to release.

Les Chandra
Public Transport Users Association President
Address: Level 2, Ross House, 247 Flinders Lane, Melbourne VIC 3000
Phone: (03) 9650 7898
Fax: (03) 9650 3689
Email: office@ptua.org.au
The Public Transport Users Association has, bar the opposing political parties, been the group with the most to say about the Fast Rail Project. So far they have been fairly critical of the government's actions and decisions. They will likely provide me with information and quotes about the impact on the average public transport user.

Secondary Sources:

Media Release 1/10/01
"Another Milestone For Regional Fast Rail Project"
From the Minister For Transport, Mr Peter Bachelor.

Media Release 20/9/01
"Electrify fast rail link, says Carbines"
From Hon. Elaine Carbines MLC, member for Geelong Provence.

Press Release
"Bendigo Fast Rail Blows Out"
From the Shadow Minister For Transport, Mr Geoffery Leigh.

Media Release 17/8/2000
Concern Grows Over Fast Train Links
From Vaughan Williams, for the Public Transport Users Association

Electronic Sources: