View Full Version : This is what Joffa had to say about Melbourne Victory
wez10000
10 Nov 2006, 10:39
Just when one thought that passion was something the AFL tea drinkers had successfully condemned to the history books tonight was a true revelation, my first experience at a Melbourne Victory football Game at Telstra Dome against Perth Glory with a crowd of 22.000 passionate football followers.
Melbourne Victory clenched victory with two minutes remaining, the noise all night was simply amazing, the cheersquad behind both goals ( melbourne victory ) was a dream come true... at long last i witnessed what a dedicated bunch of fans can do together without the petty jealousies and stupid bitching, all night they stood chanted sang cheered...without any criminal charges pending.. it was good to see a sport where theatre goers were well and truly second class citizens.
A flair was dispatched after the first goal with two mins to go giving the victory the victory...i can tell ya now no back page story by the king of all tea drinkers Mike sheehan will appear in tomorrows paper warning us of the evils of the outer..security personal were hardly noticed, and i was chuffed to see a MELBOURNE VICTORY GAME OVER banner appear towards the very end.
I didnt witness any supporter wanting to hang coach and players whilst the game was in the balance.
It was a fantastic evening, to witness such passion was a marvellous thing congratulations Melbourne Victory and all the wonderful supporters in attendance...a message to all AFL cheersquads if you want to see how it happens go to a melb victory game because let me tell you they are light years ahead of anything we could ever possibly do.
The Melbourne Victory players took time to congratulate and applaud the wonderful support from there supporters......what a crying shame this game tonight shat on any AFL game i have ever atteneded.
Have a good look Demetroiu our game is slowly dying a very painful death
that is of course if it aint well and truly dead allready.
Seeyas all at the next victory clash
http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=33116
Now i know some will say Soccer board, but this is a farely well known AFL supporter saying that last nights game between Victory and Glory s*its on any AFL game he has been too. And the game was boring for the best part of 88mins because of Glory trying to play a 0-0 draw.
Grimreepah
10 Nov 2006, 10:42
Joffa may be Collingwood's favourite son, but I don't think anyone else could give a damn.
JeffDunne
10 Nov 2006, 10:43
"Who Cares?" Board.
It seems to me all he's really said is that there weren't many Collingwood supporters in attendence ;)
TheSaviour
10 Nov 2006, 10:49
A-league Atmosphere > AFL atmosphere.
Andy could learn alot about what occurs when real supporters get to attend matches.
Well now that Joffa has given his blessing to the world game, does this mean I can now start watching with enjoyment?
Why do you feel it nessacary to point out where Joffa stands in all this? Who cares what that toothless bogan has to say?
David_Brent
10 Nov 2006, 10:57
Its pretty easy to create good atmosphere when your side is on top of the ladder, you are expecting your side to win. Hence you cheer louder.
Come to a Perth Glory game, then you'll see what sort of atmosphere a side coming 2nd last generates :thumbsd:
BK Eaglesfan
10 Nov 2006, 10:58
Seeing the soccer fans chant and return chants back and forth across the ground is great fun, and the atmosphere is definately different to an AFL gamem, and very enjoyable.
However......
The flare point has been glossed over somewhat in his rave about a night at the soccer. One of those things lands in your lap because of some loser who think they belong at an indoor sporting event and you're in trouble. This practice is truly dangerous and after the first TD game I watched many people leave after a flare was thrown off the top deck of the stand over the top of thousands of spectators. No such fear of being badly burned at an AFL game.
AFL teams regularly make an effort to clap their supporters, kick footies into the crowd etc etc. And before we rave about soccer on this front, Adelaide were fined by the league the other week because their players jumped some advertising and went over to their supporters at TD so it isn't the great people running te game creating this environment.
It was only last year that Melbourne Victory supporters had an on line petition arranged calling for Merrick to be sacked. So much for supporters 'not wanting to hang the coach'. They are top of the league at present, and many of the supporters since the move to TD are new to the sport and wouldn't know enought to criticise the coach.
I do think a night at the soccer is a good night out and go semi regularly.....but it is disappointing to see someone outright bag the very sport that has made him a mini celebrity around town on the basis of one night at a different sport. I guess it is probably a cry out for the AFL to improve what they are doing because he cares about the code, but to bag it in comparison to a once off viewing of a product is disappointing.
The Majestic
10 Nov 2006, 10:59
http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=33116
Now i know some will say Soccer board, but this is a farely well known AFL supporter saying that last nights game between Victory and Glory s*its on any AFL game he has been too. And the game was boring for the best part of 88mins because of Glory trying to play a 0-0 draw.
I don't know which is more worrying, you caring what Joffa has to say on a matter that doesn't pertain to AFL football. Or the fact you were on a Collingwood message board.
Face it Joffa has his own opinions of things, and he'll express them, why does it matter that he posts on a Collingwood message board about another code? It's not like he's some AFL celebrity.
dockers_bengals
10 Nov 2006, 11:01
Bitter magie fan not happy with his own backyard.One game that ended with a last gasp goal to the home team,what else did he expect?
wez10000
10 Nov 2006, 11:12
AFL teams regularly make an effort to clap their supporters, kick footies into the crowd etc etc. And before we rave about soccer on this front, Adelaide were fined by the league the other week because their players jumped some advertising and went over to their supporters at TD so it isn't the great people running te game creating this environment.
Adelaide got fined for taunting the Melbourne supporters after the game, not because they went to thank there fans, Melbourne scatter all over the ground and kick signed balls into the crowd, win, loss or draw. Alesandro also has a new tradition going where he comes over to the north end, takes off his shirt and waves it over his head in celebration.
I don't know which is more worrying, you caring what Joffa has to say on a matter that doesn't pertain to AFL football. Or the fact you were on a Collingwood message board.
Face it Joffa has his own opinions of things, and he'll express them, why does it matter that he posts on a Collingwood message board about another code? It's not like he's some AFL celebrity.
I found this post because someone put it up on the Melbourne Victory forum. Never go to that crap site.
mustapha
10 Nov 2006, 11:18
If he enjoyed the atmosphere at last nights game he would have loved the atmosphere and excitement at the previous 3-3 game against the Central Coast. Last nights game was the least action packed game of the year with the injury depleted Perth side playing a very defensive game (similar to flooding in AFL terms) in the hope of gaining a point from the game. It was also played in front of the smallest Telstra Dome crowd of the year on a Thursday night.
BK Eaglesfan
10 Nov 2006, 11:18
Adelaide got fined for taunting the Melbourne supporters after the game, not because they went to thank there fans.
I stand corrected.
Still a tough call by Joffa to claim in a roundabout way the AFL could learn from soccer here......Aker's handstands, the images of Melbourne players all around the fence at the G from a game earlier this year....it's not exactly not done in the AFL.
Kowalski
10 Nov 2006, 11:39
I'm just amazed & impressed Joffa has his own secretary to take dictation for him.....
celtic_pride
10 Nov 2006, 12:35
Sydney FC for Premiers !!!
Go the Cove :)
Paralowiepower
10 Nov 2006, 12:44
Both cheer squads behind the goals? lol
Joffa has alot to learn about the world game.
Cassius_Clay
10 Nov 2006, 12:52
Joffa may be Collingwood's favourite son, but I don't think anyone else could give a damn.
You posted :)
Grimreepah
10 Nov 2006, 13:03
You posted :)
What do you think about these comments? Coming from Collingwood's head cheerleader it seems to be a bit of an indictment on the Collingwood Football Club.
Whiskers
10 Nov 2006, 13:29
It seems to me all he's really said is that there weren't many Collingwood supporters in attendence ;)
Absolute gold. Exactly what i thought. Joffa should just go to any other football game not involving collingwood.
mustapha
10 Nov 2006, 13:31
Collingwood supporters are regarded as being very passionate about their club. Collingwood supporters are very vocal compared to supporters of many other AFL clubs. Joffa's comments are more of an indictment on the modern AFL than on Collingwood.
One of the most recognised fans of one of the biggest most recognised AFL clubs was blown away by the atmosphere at the Victory game. It must be pretty good.
celtic_pride
10 Nov 2006, 17:47
The Cove fans from Sydney made more bloody noise then most of the Victory fans all night at the dome (even when they were losing)
Therefore Victory fans = bandwagonners :)
The Fireman
10 Nov 2006, 18:06
I just hope he keeps going to Soccer and gives AFL a miss. It would certainly lift the standard of supporter of the AFL.:thumbsu:
Bitter magie fan not happy with his own backyard.
One has to wonder why he would bite the hand that feeds him? Unless one of the fingers on said hand has already flicked him!
Copernicus
11 Nov 2006, 05:30
Ignoring the fact that he's a nuff-nuff, he might well have a point or two smattered in there.
Of course, the games are different and hence the atmosphere is going to be different, but it's a shame that a 22,000 strong-crowd seems more passionate than the many thousands more who attend a footy match.
windyhill
11 Nov 2006, 06:14
Can you hear the Victory bandwagon creaking ?
Mitchell Madness
11 Nov 2006, 07:00
MElbourne has the luxury of being home to the Current Socceroo Captain, and Former Socceroo Captain in Muskat and Viduka. That genterates some intrest. Add that to the hype surrounding the next big thing in "football" in Archie Thompson and top spot on the ladder, and you have a great scenario for big support. If yoo to other team matches, even Sydney FC, they lack support, because they do not have the publicised players.
It is the same in the AFL. COllingwood and Essendon have the luxury of having players flood the back pages of the papers, and in turn, generate larger support. The hawks at the start of the year did nto generate much, but Franklin started generating intrest, and the support started to increase.
Inferno
11 Nov 2006, 10:21
MElbourne has the luxury of being home to the Current Socceroo Captain, and Former Socceroo Captain in Muskat and Viduka. That genterates some intrest. Add that to the hype surrounding the next big thing in "football" in Archie Thompson and top spot on the ladder, and you have a great scenario for big support. If yoo to other team matches, even Sydney FC, they lack support, because they do not have the publicised players.
It is the same in the AFL. COllingwood and Essendon have the luxury of having players flood the back pages of the papers, and in turn, generate larger support. The hawks at the start of the year did nto generate much, but Franklin started generating intrest, and the support started to increase.Viduka playing for the Victory? Do you even know what your talking about???
Edit: Viduka the 'international ambassador'. I thought you meant he was playing for them...my bad.
Coughlan
11 Nov 2006, 10:33
Viduka playing for the Victory? Do you even know what your talking about???
Edit: Viduka the 'international ambassador'. I thought you meant he was playing for them...my bad.
i dont believe he does, he also has Archie Thompson as the next big thing, the guys like 28, and he isnt international standard, ever noticed that when he played for Australia he struggled and was pretty much a passenger unless playing the Soloman Islands. There is a reason he is playing in the A-League and not somewhere else, and that is because he simply isnt good enough
JF_Bay_22_SCG
11 Nov 2006, 13:01
http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=33116
Just when one thought that passion was something the AFL tea drinkers had successfully condemned to the history books tonight was a true revelation, my first experience at a Melbourne Victory football Game at Telstra Dome against Perth Glory with a crowd of 22.000 passionate football followers.
Melbourne Victory clenched victory with two minutes remaining, the noise all night was simply amazing, the cheersquad behind both goals ( melbourne victory ) was a dream come true... at long last i witnessed what a dedicated bunch of fans can do together without the petty jealousies and stupid bitching, all night they stood chanted sang cheered...without any criminal charges pending.. it was good to see a sport where theatre goers were well and truly second class citizens.
A flair was dispatched after the first goal with two mins to go giving the victory the victory...i can tell ya now no back page story by the king of all tea drinkers Mike sheehan will appear in tomorrows paper warning us of the evils of the outer..security personal were hardly noticed, and i was chuffed to see a MELBOURNE VICTORY GAME OVER banner appear towards the very end.
I didnt witness any supporter wanting to hang coach and players whilst the game was in the balance.
It was a fantastic evening, to witness such passion was a marvellous thing congratulations Melbourne Victory and all the wonderful supporters in attendance...a message to all AFL cheersquads if you want to see how it happens go to a melb victory game because let me tell you they are light years ahead of anything we could ever possibly do.
The Melbourne Victory players took time to congratulate and applaud the wonderful support from there supporters......what a crying shame this game tonight shat on any AFL game i have ever attended.
Have a good look Demetriou our game is slowly dying a very painful death
that is of course if it aint well and truly dead already.
Seeyas all at the next victory clash.
To put it succintly, I'm stunned at his comments. Hey, I'm a member of the famous Cove at Sydney FC and completely agree with him in terms of the atmosphere and passion, even if I will still love my Swans for the rest of my life regardless.
How do the rest of you react to his comments? Does AFL footy really have anything to worry about when you get a diehard making comments like this? Do his comments shock or unsettle you as an AFL footy fan at all?
JF
PS:- "Joffa the Tard", well I never..... :eek: ;)
The Fireman
11 Nov 2006, 13:02
already been done on Bay13..where this belongs.
de_LICA_ish18
11 Nov 2006, 13:12
I don't know why people go to other clubs fansites in the middle of November.
He is entitled to his opinion but I don't see why it needs to be posted everywhere. He has got a big enough head as it is.
I know people who went to that Victory game who said it was a wonderful cure for insomnia.
CatmanForever
11 Nov 2006, 13:17
Every other football code in Australia want to dream/think/wish that AFL is a dying sport and their code is going to be the one to knock it off it's perch. Really it's just wishful thinking at best. I watched the Victory Game on paytv and while I enjoyed it, it will never replace AFL as my number one footy passion. Soccer has a good chance to grow in this country I agree. But AFL has nothing to fear at present. I'd love to see soccer knock rugby down though. That would be cool.
If I was getting paid I would say whatever they wanted as well
"I didnt witness any supporter wanting to hang coach and players whilst the game was in the balance"
Lucky he didnt go to any of last seasons Victory games then.
Sounds like Joffa is well and truly on the Bandwagon. I wonder if he was having as much fun when the Victory were struggling also-rans last year. ;) Just because Joffa loves a winner doesn't mean the AFL is in trouble. The numbers are talking when it comes to the health of our game. And that is a fact. :thumbsu:
mediumsizered
11 Nov 2006, 13:42
Sounds like Joffa is well and truly on the Bandwagon. I wonder if he was having as much fun when the Victory were struggling also-rans last year. ;) Just because Joffa loves a winner doesn't mean the AFL is in trouble. The numbers are talking when it comes to the health of our game. And that is a fact. :thumbsu:
Totally agree with you. All this really demonstrates is that while the A-League plays their season during the AFL off season, many AFL fans are going to go along, therefore bolstering the numbers. A better test of how support for the A-League is going would be to see how many they would get to a Victory game at Telstra Dome while two of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, maybe even St Kilda were battling it out at the 'G' during the AFL season. I would suggest the numbers at TD would be barely half of the 22k that were at the Victory-Glory match.
Until the A-League go head to head with the AFL competition we will not know what their true support base is.
Until the A-League go head to head with the AFL competition we will not know what their true support base is.
Go to the Futbal board to find out... the amount of '' &^%$ I have to choose between ( insert football teams name) and (insert Futbal teams name) because they are both on at the same time *&^%''
If I was getting paid I would say whatever they wanted as well
Probably more to this comment than meets the eye.
PS:- "Joffa the Tard", well I never..... :eek: ;)
JF of all people on BF to give Joff a leg up, I expected more from you.
Remember that simpsons episode with the giant ice cream boy, that catch cry was Just Don't Look!
If I was getting paid I would say whatever they wanted as well
If I paid someone to say something I'd expect something a bit more than a post on an internet forum.
If you have a source saying he was paid for this, state it here, publically. If you don't, well, I think we know..
The Majestic
11 Nov 2006, 14:11
Who says Joffa needed a gold jacket to gain the attention of people.
It seems they were all wrong.
I agree with Joffa - Going to a game of soccer would be better than sitting in the feral Collingwood cheer squad for three hours.
Constipated Duck
11 Nov 2006, 14:27
Good. Let the turnip stick to the soccer.
The Majestic
11 Nov 2006, 14:30
He can be their mascot, and parade himself a newer gold jacket.
lenny&carl
11 Nov 2006, 14:59
It's got nothing to do with being a "threat to the afl." All he's saying is that there's a lot more crowd heat/excitement/involvment at the soccer than there is at the footy. Which is true, and make of it what you will.
GoldenSky
11 Nov 2006, 15:02
Yeah and theres more 'crowd excitement' because soccer is a boring arse game, so the spectators have to amuse themselves during the match.
CatmanForever
11 Nov 2006, 15:09
It's got nothing to do with being a "threat to the afl." All he's saying is that there's a lot more crowd heat/excitement/involvment at the soccer than there is at the footy. Which is true, and make of it what you will.
crap...sorry..that is so crap it isn't funny :thumbsd:
Yeah and theres more 'crowd excitement' because soccer is a boring arse game, so the spectators have to amuse themselves during the match.
Exhibit A: an invalid opinion of a small-minded cretin.
Crosby87
11 Nov 2006, 15:45
Exhibit A: an invalid opinion of a small-minded cretin.
"Invalid opinion"? You must be a soccer fan. It's your sport or nothing, right? Our opinions aren't valid if we don't follow the sport you choose to... isn't that right?
And, it only takes one look at Melbourne Victory's message boards to see something like this posted:
Originally Posted by ROMA
close this thread.. pete...
seriously...
im gona kill someone.
i will never ever respect anyone who never gave football the time of day...
in all these years..
******** HIM.AND ******** AFL..
And hence the reason I will never, ever watch Australian soccer. This "our sport or nothing" hostile attitude has done it for me. You'd think we could co-exist, but no. And this is coming from someone who has played soccer, and who used to follow the EPL (admittedly it was a while ago now).
I mean, comments like that are just ridiculous.
"Invalid opinion"? You must be a soccer fan. It's your sport or nothing, right? Our opinions aren't valid if we don't follow the sport you choose to... isn't that right?
Why would 22,000 people be at Telstra Dome on a Thursday night if the sport is a "boring arse game"? Obviously that's your opinion on the game, but you can't assume that's the reason behind the crowds excitement, with them being genuinely interested in the code, and you shunning it.
Why would 22,000 people be at Telstra Dome on a Thursday night if the sport is a "boring arse game"? Obviously that's your opinion on the game, but you can't assume that's the reason behind the crowds excitement, with them being genuinely interested in the code, and you shunning it.
Same reason the Perth Glory were getting sellouts every match 6 or 7 years ago but now no bastard gives a rats arse.
Funnily enough, exactly the same sort of comments were said back then about the Glory as are said now about the Victory. They were winning every game, the crowd atmosphere was great (which it was), and it's the new sporting behemoth.
No, it was a F-A-D. The attraction of a few funny chants doesn't last forever. People eventually start looking at what else there is to offer, and a bunch of 4th rate soccer players not good enough to play in Europe won't cut it. Especially if they're not winning every game.
Ted Ed Fred
11 Nov 2006, 16:34
And hence the reason I will never, ever watch Australian soccer. This "our sport or nothing" hostile attitude has done it for me. You'd think we could co-exist, but no. And this is coming from someone who has played soccer, and who used to follow the EPL (admittedly it was a while ago now).
I mean, comments like that are just ridiculous.
Completely agree. Make no mistake, the diehard soccer fans want to see AFL (and rugby) dead. I mean, straight after the world cup even the President of FFA started smarting off about how soccer is well on the way to knocking the other codes off their perches as no.1, saying normal service will not be resumed smugly. I'll never understand the hostility and resentment towards Australia's game, partly because they're just setting themselves up for dissapointment after dissapointment. The best they can ever hope for is co-existance
TheSaviour
11 Nov 2006, 18:33
Completely agree. Make no mistake, the diehard soccer fans want to see AFL (and rugby) dead. I mean, straight after the world cup even the President of FFA started smarting off about how soccer is well on the way to knocking the other codes off their perches as no.1, saying normal service will not be resumed smugly. I'll never understand the hostility and resentment towards Australia's game, partly because they're just setting themselves up for dissapointment after dissapointment. The best they can ever hope for is co-existance
Same thing could be said about most AFL fans.
People in this forum are too Melbournecentric. You don't realise how meaningless and tiny AFL is until you leave the Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne Area.
Sir_Adrian84
11 Nov 2006, 19:04
Same thing could be said about most AFL fans.
People in this forum are too Melbournecentric. You don't realise how meaningless and tiny AFL is until you leave the Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne Area.
the soccer people or for that matter league people or anyone are no different. There are people who like some sports and others who don't. You could go further where anyone who didn;t support AUS druing the World Cup because it was soccer are disgraceful, but so are those people who watch the WC but slag off the Wallabies, the cricket team etc.
Most people here, and in Melbourne watch all sports either at the game or on TV, if anything go to Europe and see how many sports other than soccer they play.
TheSaviour
11 Nov 2006, 19:27
the soccer people or for that matter league people or anyone are no different. There are people who like some sports and others who don't. You could go further where anyone who didn;t support AUS druing the World Cup because it was soccer are disgraceful, but so are those people who watch the WC but slag off the Wallabies, the cricket team etc.
Most people here, and in Melbourne watch all sports either at the game or on TV, if anything go to Europe and see how many sports other than soccer they play.
Haven't you seen the Anti Soccer media that AFL papers keep writing about? remember when Channel Seven "suffocated" soccer for the AFL. Its lcearly the other way around mate and because of that Soccer fans don't like AFL. They just don't like it being shoved down there throat all the time.
http://i6.ebayimg.com/06/i/08/bb/e7/82_1.JPGhttp://i6.ebayimg.com/06/i/08/bb/e7/82_1.JPGhttp://i6.ebayimg.com/06/i/08/bb/e7/82_1.JPG
And hence the reason I will never, ever watch Australian soccer. This "our sport or nothing" hostile attitude has done it for me. You'd think we could co-exist, but no.
Please re-read what you just wrote, and have a think about it!
bresker
12 Nov 2006, 12:03
I don't think Melbourne is going to support 8 soccer teams with an average attendance of 25,000 or more in the near futire. No comparison.
Joffa and his type are suited to soccer. The chants and the flares would remind him of the birthday parties for his fellow basket cases in his sheltered accommodation.
He's more interested in the the crowd than the sport. I go to football to watch the game, not listen to people sing or set fire to themsleves. Though I must admit I'd pay money to watch a flare go out of control and set fire to its user's shiny Melbourne Victory tracksuit.
To all the ill-informed bogans out there that have a negative opinion about soccer, do yourselves a favor and get down to a Victory game and experience something very unique in Australian sports. The chanting when done with some imagination can be very humerous eg. the south end supporters giving it to visiting opposition fans.
realfootball
12 Nov 2006, 12:46
Same reason the Perth Glory were getting sellouts every match 6 or 7 years ago but now no bastard gives a rats arse.
Funnily enough, exactly the same sort of comments were said back then about the Glory as are said now about the Victory. They were winning every game, the crowd atmosphere was great (which it was), and it's the new sporting behemoth.
No, it was a F-A-D. The attraction of a few funny chants doesn't last forever. People eventually start looking at what else there is to offer, and a bunch of 4th rate soccer players not good enough to play in Europe won't cut it. Especially if they're not winning every game.
You're talking utter rubbish.
Yes, Perth 'Gory' may have been a bit of a fad, but thats because the NSL was a joke. It was a well run club with money pumped into it, but it couldn't last financially under the old administration and Tanna pulled out eventually. I am also led to believe that the sporting culture in the west remains overtly AFL., with soccer having to struggle to compete to gain any exposure.
Well I can assure you, it aint like that here. Sydney in particular is a multi-code city, and if you look at the papers, the exposure and the 'care-factor', soccer is arguably the no2 code here now. And it is strong at every level. The novelty over here, if anything, is AFL. Soccer is a different ball game now, with huge backing from very powerful people. The marketing of the game, on a tight budget is second to none, and I'm convinced that this is no fad. The second year of any start up comp is tough, but the a-league crowds on average are up on year one. I dare say you are coming from a very WA viewpoint. Sure, Perth Glory may possibly even get the boot, but the a-league is alive and well, and looks in good shape overall. It is VERY well run.
Sure, the standard isn't great, but it isn't 4th rate as you say. I've been to literally hundreds of soccer matches around the world, and the standard is no worse, on average, than serie B in Italy. If you reckon the a-league is 4th rate, you should see some of the lower euro matches i've been to. Many players in the A-league can, and have, cut it in top filght euro comps. That is unquestionable. In anycase, you don't need to have the best comp in the world to have a thriving league. J-league, K-league, are examples outside of europe.
realfootball
12 Nov 2006, 13:02
Completely agree. Make no mistake, the diehard soccer fans want to see AFL (and rugby) dead. I mean, straight after the world cup even the President of FFA started smarting off about how soccer is well on the way to knocking the other codes off their perches as no.1, saying normal service will not be resumed smugly. I'll never understand the hostility and resentment towards Australia's game, partly because they're just setting themselves up for dissapointment after dissapointment. The best they can ever hope for is co-existance
I don't know if that is the case. It may be true that, from what i've seen, Sydney FC fans have a dislike of AFL quite alot, (much to my displeasure), but I don't find much resentment between either of the rugby codes here and soccer. Sydney tis a multi code city. Also having spoken to a number of Victory fans, they told me, (maybe this is wrong), but, in general, there is great cross over and respect between fans of soccer and afl in Melbourne. I don't even think it is 'co-existence'. I think it is more likely people will enjoy the choice more and more in the future.
IMHO, die hard soccer fans want AFL to go away no more than Die hard AFL fans want soccer to disapear. There will always be an element of supporters in each code who believe 'my sport is the only sport' .
You're talking utter rubbish.
Yes, Perth 'Gory' may have been a bit of a fad, but thats because the NSL was a joke. It was a well run club with money pumped into it, but it couldn't last financially under the old administration and Tanna pulled out eventually. I am also led to believe that the sporting culture in the west remains overtly AFL., with soccer having to struggle to compete to gain any exposure.
Not during the summer it aint. But in any case, how's that different to Melbourne?
Well I can assure you, it aint like that here. Sydney in particular is a multi-code city, and if you look at the papers, the exposure and the 'care-factor', soccer is arguably the no2 code here now.
Couldn't even get 10,000 through the gates last game. Shows what happens when the team isn't winning every game. It's not like they're crap either. Imagine how poor their crowds would be if they were losing every game - i'd imagine less than 5,000 would be the norm.
And it is strong at every level. The novelty over here, if anything, is AFL.
A pretty long lasting novelty. They've been drawing strong crowds - much higher than any soccer club - for ages.
Soccer is a different ball game now, with huge backing from very powerful people. The marketing of the game, on a tight budget is second to none, and I'm convinced that this is no fad. The second year of any start up comp is tough, but the a-league crowds on average are up on year one. I dare say you are coming from a very WA viewpoint. Sure, Perth Glory may possibly even get the boot, but the a-league is alive and well, and looks in good shape overall. It is VERY well run.
Big deal. My point was that Melbourne is going through exactly what Perth went through years ago. Perth grew out of it. Read the post before yours by Hornet to prove my point. The attraction isn't the game at all, it's the atmosphere, which is what was drawing full houses for the Glory all those years ago. But that won't last for the majority.
That they're about as popular as aids now has nothing to do with how well they're run off the field - it's simply because people will not become lifelong fans based on decent atmosphere. The novelty of 3 or 4 thousand poms yelling 'stick Croatia up your arse' or 'F**k off back to Sydney' was fun for a while, but eventually just got boring.
Sure, the standard isn't great, but it isn't 4th rate as you say. I've been to literally hundreds of soccer matches around the world, and the standard is no worse, on average, than serie B in Italy. If you reckon the a-league is 4th rate, you should see some of the lower euro matches i've been to. Many players in the A-league can, and have, cut it in top filght euro comps. That is unquestionable. In anycase, you don't need to have the best comp in the world to have a thriving league. J-league, K-league, are examples outside of europe.
You keep telling yourself that. I've seen it all before, as has any medium term Perth resident. People get attracted to the atmosphere and the chants - then after a while they start looking at the product. Most of them leave.
realfootball
12 Nov 2006, 14:53
Not during the summer it aint. But in any case, how's that different to Melbourne?
The difference is, Melbourne people have a club for themselves that is well run under a proper administration, for the first time. Perth glory are currently administered by the FFA from sydney, hardly effective for the fans, or potential punters. Media wise, i've looked closely at the newspapers of both cities regularly, and it is quite plain to see that the victory have far expousre in the media. I could be wrong, but I think soccer just has far more acceptance in Melbourne than perth.
Couldn't even get 10,000 through the gates last game. Shows what happens when the team isn't winning every game. It's not like they're crap either. Imagine how poor their crowds would be if they were losing every game - i'd imagine less than 5,000 would be the norm.
Yes, but it's true of sydney in general. They hate losing, and tend not to go to, irrespective of the code. Fans here, of all sports vote with their feet. the 10K you mentioned was against the knights, a club that should not be in the league, and the crowd was no worse than last year for the same fixture.
A pretty long lasting novelty. They've been drawing strong crowds - much higher than any soccer club - for ages.
And I've been going for ages. Infact, i've been going since season one in sydney, and after that first year, the crowds dropped off to just a few thousand at times, for quite along time too. It was miserable. In comparison, Sydney FC, second year in, looks in much better shape than the swans did at the same time. It still isn't a game of the masses here.
Big deal. My point was that Melbourne is going through exactly what Perth went through years ago. Perth grew out of it. Read the post before yours by Hornet to prove my point. The attraction isn't the game at all, it's the atmosphere, which is what was drawing full houses for the Glory all those years ago. But that won't last for the majority.
That they're about as popular as aids now has nothing to do with how well they're run off the field - it's simply because people will not become lifelong fans based on decent atmosphere. The novelty of 3 or 4 thousand poms yelling 'stick Croatia up your arse' or 'F**k off back to Sydney' was fun for a while, but eventually just got boring.
You could be right, but I don't think so. It may be that people in WA are less interested in soccer, or perhaps more likely, the glory peaked when they had to work under the old nsl regime. Generally, the FFA franchises are sound, financially, something the glory never was.. But we will just have to wait and see.
You keep telling yourself that. I've seen it all before, as has any medium term Perth resident. People get attracted to the atmosphere and the chants - then after a while they start looking at the product. Most of them leave.
Yes, but you keep talking about Perth as the example. It is not representative of Australia. The crowds are up overall, second year in. You would think many would have given up by now, but the opposite is true, and the second season is usually the toughest of all.
diablo14
12 Nov 2006, 15:49
Yes, but you keep talking about Perth as the example. It is not representative of Australia. The crowds are up overall, second year in. You would think many would have given up by now, but the opposite is true, and the second season is usually the toughest of all.
except when the national team makes the WC finals prior to that second season commencing.
im just interested to know how soccer now is any different to basketball here in the 90's? and they are two most played team sports worldwide, so i dont want to hear about 'the world game'
i will also say that i am a big soccer fan (ive been following WHU longer than Geelong even), have been for years, and do go to victory games myself.
The difference is, Melbourne people have a club for themselves that is well run under a proper administration, for the first time. Perth glory are currently administered by the FFA from sydney, hardly effective for the fans, or potential punters. Media wise, i've looked closely at the newspapers of both cities regularly, and it is quite plain to see that the victory have far expousre in the media. I could be wrong, but I think soccer just has far more acceptance in Melbourne than perth.
The media tends to reflect the interest of it's readership. When the Glory was strong, they used to get strong media coverage. Now that they're weak, the media doesn't care because their readers don't care. I'm sure the Victory is getting pretty good coverage in Melbourne (they should be), because they are attracting a fair bit of interest from the general population.
You seem to think it works the other way around - the media generally doesn't operate like that.
Yes, but it's true of sydney in general. They hate losing, and tend not to go to, irrespective of the code. Fans here, of all sports vote with their feet. the 10K you mentioned was against the knights, a club that should not be in the league, and the crowd was no worse than last year for the same fixture.
Didn't Sydney win the league last year? Surely you wouldn't expect them to have declining crowds.
And I've been going for ages. Infact, i've been going since season one in sydney, and after that first year, the crowds dropped off to just a few thousand at times, for quite along time too. It was miserable. In comparison, Sydney FC, second year in, looks in much better shape than the swans did at the same time. It still isn't a game of the masses here.
Don't undersell it, even when the Swans won 4 straight spoons, they still averaged nearly 10k. And back then it wasn't a competition that had nearly as much publicity as the A-League. In the Swans 3rd and 4th years when they were competitive, they were averaging over 20,000. And this was over 20 years ago, when people weren't as affluent and not as likely to attend sporting events. You really can't compare the 2.
You could be right, but I don't think so. It may be that people in WA are less interested in soccer, or perhaps more likely, the glory peaked when they had to work under the old nsl regime. Generally, the FFA franchises are sound, financially, something the glory never was.. But we will just have to wait and see.
True. But I don't think people decide whether or not to go to a soccer match on the basis of how financial the club was.
Yes, but you keep talking about Perth as the example. It is not representative of Australia. The crowds are up overall, second year in. You would think many would have given up by now, but the opposite is true, and the second season is usually the toughest of all.
I talk about Perth as the example because that's what i'm familiar with, and it sounds so familiar. With the Glory, it took them 2 or 3 seasons to start attracting decent support as well. People aren't just going to jump on board because it's new, word had to get around that it was different and worth going to. That seems to be the case with the Victory, they look to have built a reputation for being a different sporting experience. But that seems to be based almost entirely around atmosphere, not the actual product. Go back to the original post - nothing much about what a great game soccer is, only how people make so much noise and generate so much atmosphere. A bit like buying a packet of chips because of how cool the packet is. Eventually people have to open the packet and try what's inside. If they don't like it then they're probably not going to buy it anymore.
I'd imagine you being from Sydney would have a reasonable idea of the phenomenon - you must remember the Northern Spirit.
Ted Ed Fred
12 Nov 2006, 16:43
Same thing could be said about most AFL fans.
People in this forum are too Melbournecentric. You don't realise how meaningless and tiny AFL is until you leave the Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne Area.
I don't live in any of those areas. Last time I checked AFL was Australia's number 1 sporting code by any measure, so what does that say about how meaningless the other codes are I wonder. AFL is the number 1 football code in WA, Victoria, SA, Tasmania, NT (even if RL do force channel 9 to show rugby first) and the stats show it's about 60-40 RL-AFL in QLD. So it's "tiny and meaningless" in Sydney, and even there crowds for Swans games are consistantly larger than the crowds for Soccer and Rugby.
If you love soccer just focus on it and enjoy it :thumbsu: . If you're constantly worrying about AFL and it's popularity you're always going to feel resentful and bitter.
gotheflag
12 Nov 2006, 18:26
You will find Perth's best season average attendance in the NSL was their second season when they finished pretty low I think.
Mind you Perth media are knobs.
mustapha
13 Nov 2006, 09:27
except when the national team makes the WC finals prior to that second season commencing.
im just interested to know how soccer now is any different to basketball here in the 90's? and they are two most played team sports worldwide, so i dont want to hear about 'the world game'
i will also say that i am a big soccer fan (ive been following WHU longer than Geelong even), have been for years, and do go to victory games myself.
With the changed qualification process I doubt that we will be waiting another 32 years for the next World Cup appearance. Our national team will be playing in major tournaments (World Cup, Asian Cup) more often. Has there ever been as much public interest in basketball as there was for the World Cup this year? Would a boomers final be played to 10,000 people at Federation square. I think that there is also a strong ethnic population that has an attachment to football. I doubt that basketball in the 90s had this. For the first time in years people can follow a professional league at home.
I hope that the AFL administration are concerned about the rise of football in Australia (there is really no need to be as both games can co-exist). Hopefully their irrational concern plays a small part in preventing the competition from becoming more of a farce than it already is.
Lockyer24
13 Nov 2006, 11:27
I still love AFL the sport a lot more than the round ball code but theres no doubt at all in my mind the vibe of the crowd is 100 times better at Victory games that any Collingwood games I attend.
Victory is developing a very strong and loyal fan base, anyone who thinks it is just a fad has no idea. Sure you will have your bandwagoners but with 11,000 members already the core is very strong.
Coastering
13 Nov 2006, 11:50
I have been a member of Victory since the club started. I have played soccer all my life and I still do. Compared to AFL I find soccer incredibly boring. To say that the 'vibe' at Victory matches is better than AFL is wrong. Sure the crowd goes insane when a goal is scored. Big deal! For more than half the game the crowd is dead quiet as the ball bounces back an forth through the middle. You get a cheer squad who are so bored that they spend a large part of the game singing songs. AFL crowds don't go insane the way soccer fans do but over the course of an AFL game there is more participation from fans than in an a-league game. That's because AFL is a far more interesting game than girly ball.
mustapha
13 Nov 2006, 12:39
I have been a member of Victory since the club started. I have played soccer all my life and I still do. Compared to AFL I find soccer incredibly boring. To say that the 'vibe' at Victory matches is better than AFL is wrong. Sure the crowd goes insane when a goal is scored. Big deal! For more than half the game the crowd is dead quiet as the ball bounces back an forth through the middle. You get a cheer squad who are so bored that they spend a large part of the game singing songs. AFL crowds don't go insane the way soccer fans do but over the course of an AFL game there is more participation from fans than in an a-league game. That's because AFL is a far more interesting game than girly ball.
You are a member of a club that plays a sport that you find boring. You pay at least $100 to watch a sport that you call "girly ball" ;). You participate in "girly ball". You must be incredibly wealthy if you can afford to offload money into things that you don't like.
PS I have been an Essendon member for 65 years but I hate Aussie Rules and I can't stand watching it.
Coastering
13 Nov 2006, 13:05
Ha, I wish. A Victory membership costs $160 per year. That works out to $16 a game, so it saves me money if I go to every game. I joined last year because I know someone involved with the club and I wanted to support them. I joined again this year as I need to watch some sport during the AFL off season, and I don't follow cricket. I do enjoy going to the games where I catch up with mates. I am unsure if will renew my membership next year, at this stage probably not, it's not worth the money.
I love playing 'girly ball', I just find it boring to watch.
AFL is a far more interesting spectator sport than soccer. I am sick of all the 'I went to my first a-league and now I am a convert' comments I hear recently. Once you get over the singing crowds, the flares, the big goal celebrations and focus on the actual game, it's quite dull.
bzparkes
13 Nov 2006, 13:15
Soccer would never replace AFL as our no.1 sport for the simple fact that it's played in the AFL off-season. How can anyone even consider that the A-League would conquer AFL when they're not even played in competition to each other? You'll find that most ppl who will end up watching the soccer in years to come will pretty much only watch it because Australia will play in the World Cup more often, just like they do with World Cup rugby. It's a bit like when parents enrol their kids in a particular sport whenever an Australian does well at it, the novelty soon wears off.
The Soccer supporters here who do follow A-League will all follow some European-based team first, that you can all but guarante. The fact that they can't watch their team play here makes them want to go to A-League matches, which is most likely why they follow A-League I suspect.
AFL will never be knocked off it's perch as Australia's No.1 sport. It's our indigenous game and too ingrained in our culture. Besides, why would we want some European import to knock off a game that we created?? The mind boggles...
Ron The Bear
13 Nov 2006, 15:13
If I was getting paid I would say whatever they wanted as well
My first thought also, far too complimentary about a run-of-the-mill mid-season soccer match for someone who must have been amongst the ~100,000 at the 1990 GF (unless incarcerated at the time). My interest in soccer is fleeting, I'll watch Premier League or the national team on TV but generally fall asleep unless there is some sort of wager involved.
Don't know Joffa (who would own up to it?) but it's one of
a) paid commentary
b) attempted troll
c) drug-addled waffle
d) Joffa is not the passionate Collingwood supporter he paints himself as, or
e) it's not Joffa.
Not worried in the least about soccer's popularity - it will stand, fall or plateau on its merits.
mustapha
13 Nov 2006, 15:28
My first thought also, far too complimentary about a run-of-the-mill mid-season soccer match for someone who must have been amongst the ~100,000 at the 1990 GF (unless incarcerated at the time). My interest in soccer is fleeting, I'll watch Premier League or the national team on TV but generally fall asleep unless there is some sort of wager involved.
Don't know Joffa (who would own up to it?) but it's one of
a) paid commentary
b) attempted troll
c) drug-addled waffle
d) Joffa is not the passionate Collingwood supporter he paints himself as, or
e) it's not Joffa.
Not worried in the least about soccer's popularity - it will stand, fall or plateau on its merits.
It sounds more like a passionate AFL supporter who is disappointed with the current direction of the AFL and the modern game (or possibly option c ;) ).
realfootball
13 Nov 2006, 15:45
The media tends to reflect the interest of it's readership. When the Glory was strong, they used to get strong media coverage. Now that they're weak, the media doesn't care because their readers don't care. I'm sure the Victory is getting pretty good coverage in Melbourne (they should be), because they are attracting a fair bit of interest from the general population.
You seem to think it works the other way around - the media generally doesn't operate like that.
I don't really agree with that.I think it works both ways. I could give a plethora of examples where the media itself, through top-down marketing, have created the interest and hype itself, or even held it back. For example, the daily telegraph in sydney have a liftout 'football fever' every tuesday for soccer fans, no doubt paid for by sponsors. This was never available in the old nsl. It has given exposure. The lift-out, mainly focusing on sydney FC, creates exposure and interst to those football curious. And this liftout will exposure will no continue whether sydney win lose or draw. I'm sure many people became interested in the world cup, only because of hype created around it, not through overt interest in the game itself. Media expoure alone helps and occurs not necessarily because more people attend the games.
Didn't Sydney win the league last year? Surely you wouldn't expect them to have declining crowds.
Yes, and they don't have decling crowds.
Don't undersell it, even when the Swans won 4 straight spoons, they still averaged nearly 10k. And back then it wasn't a competition that had nearly as much publicity as the A-League. In the Swans 3rd and 4th years when they were competitive, they were averaging over 20,000. And this was over 20 years ago, when people weren't as affluent and not as likely to attend sporting events. You really can't compare the 2.
Other than 86/87, the crowds up till 96 were pretty ordinary, as you have shown. But, not because of fans, but through financial luck, and a bit of help from AFL headquarters, the club kept their head above water. The club and the AFL has worked tirelessly over the past decade to hype it up, and it has actually worked to some extent. And that's my point, the difference between Perth glory and Nth spirit in the nsl, and Melb victory and Sydney FC in the a-league is that this time, the clubs have governing body administration at the highest level to ensure business success, and to guide through tough times, just like the swans had.
True. But I don't think people decide whether or not to go to a soccer match on the basis of how financial the club was.
As in previous points, media and sound administration can generate interest.
I talk about Perth as the example because that's what i'm familiar with, and it sounds so familiar. With the Glory, it took them 2 or 3 seasons to start attracting decent support as well. People aren't just going to jump on board because it's new, word had to get around that it was different and worth going to. That seems to be the case with the Victory, they look to have built a reputation for being a different sporting experience. But that seems to be based almost entirely around atmosphere, not the actual product. Go back to the original post - nothing much about what a great game soccer is, only how people make so much noise and generate so much atmosphere. A bit like buying a packet of chips because of how cool the packet is. Eventually people have to open the packet and try what's inside. If they don't like it then they're probably not going to buy it anymore.
Yes, but that's just your opinion. Many people go along to a-league games and enjoy the match, as simple as that. I do for one. Sure, it isn't the highest standard. That doesn't deter everyone. I'm confident that the lowest standard is the starting point, ie last year. Do you really think that a guy like Frank Lowy is going to not want to continually improve the standard from here? If a man like Lowy says failure is not an option, I tend to believe him.
realfootball
13 Nov 2006, 15:49
AFL will never be knocked off it's perch as Australia's No.1 sport. It's our indigenous game and too ingrained in our culture. Besides, why would we want some European import to knock off a game that we created?? The mind boggles...
It's not ingrained in NSW or QLD culture. The AFL have had to work damn hard at it. European imports have always flourished here, the rugby codes,( and emerging now is soccer ) in these states much more compared to AFL
realfootball
13 Nov 2006, 16:05
except when the national team makes the WC finals prior to that second season commencing.
Sure, and that's one of the advantages soccer has over many other sports. It will work to the games advantage.
im just interested to know how soccer now is any different to basketball here in the 90's? and they are two most played team sports worldwide, so i dont want to hear about 'the world game'
It's different because It is now run by the most competent sporting business body in this country, and few would disagree with that, including a very powerful person at the top. Money will not be wasted.
Its different because many more people at grass roots level play the game at both junior and senior level than basketball in australia. (abt 3 times more at junior level, from the abs stats i just looked at for 2003), more poeple playing, i'm assuming means greater interest.
It's different because independent reports (eg http://www.sweeneyresearch.com.au/newsPDF/news_pdf_13.pdf)
have found that interest in soccer is almost that of AFL in australia,something basketball never has achieved.It also shows that interest in soccer has always been high, just not harnessed.
Its different because there is true meaningful direction for the game, asian cups at the domestic level, asian championships and world cups at the national. Something basketball did not have.
bzparkes
13 Nov 2006, 19:56
It's different because independent reports (eg http://www.sweeneyresearch.com.au/newsPDF/news_pdf_13.pdf)
have found that interest in soccer is almost that of AFL in australia,something basketball never has achieved.It also shows that interest in soccer has always been high, just not harnessed.
Its different because there is true meaningful direction for the game, asian cups at the domestic level, asian championships and world cups at the national. Something basketball did not have.
Interest in supporting or playing? I know a tonne of ppl who play soccer but follow AFL far more passionately than they do Soccer. A lot of them don't even support a Soccer team at all but they follow AFL very strongly.
Point; A lot of parents would much rather have their kids play Soccer than AFL because it's a non-contact sport, thus they don't worry about their children as much. I myself like playing Soccer but I'll be arsed if I'm going to watch a game of it. I'll watch Australia play because it's the only time I find watching Soccer exciting and only when there's stakes riding on it, world cup qualifying, etc... and I know so many people who are the same but won't support it outside of that, it's just not as exciting as AFL and most ppl who watch sport don't actually play it.
People just want to be entertained and a lot of people simply don't find Soccer entertaining, why do you think in the EPL there's so many fights and all they do is sing? It's 'cause they're bored. However the game is ingrained in their culture as is AFL here, do you think some foreign sport will knock off Soccer as No.1 in England? Of course not. Why on earth do you think it'd be any different here?
bzparkes
13 Nov 2006, 19:59
It's not ingrained in NSW or QLD culture. The AFL have had to work damn hard at it. European imports have always flourished here, the rugby codes,( and emerging now is soccer ) in these states much more compared to AFL
Then why does the AFL have consistently higher crowds to their games than these other 2 codes? Soccer doesn't even have anything to really compete with at this time of year yet barely drew a crowd of 10k on the weekend. At the moment it's a novelty, it'll soon wear off.
O'Brien
13 Nov 2006, 19:59
im just interested to know how soccer now is any different to basketball here in the 90's? and they are two most played team sports worldwide, so i dont want to hear about 'the world game'
I don’t think the two sports, or the two scenarios are comparable. I was teenager during the early to mid nineties and I distinctly recall the period where basketball was extremely popular. Indeed I still have my basketball collection (hoops) from the ’92, ’93 NBA seasons.
I think Michael Jordan played a huge role in the popularity of the game overseas- I even recall the McDonalds commercial he did with Larry Bird. As soon as he retired interest in the game began to wane – there wasn’t the wow factor anymore. Also remember there was no internet back in the early nineties and cable television was still in its infancy, so it was difficult to keep up with how your NBA side was going. Today, people can watch their favourites Premier League side live, can stay up to date with the news via the internet- there’s not such a great divide as before. In a way local basketball was unfortunate as it peaked a little too early.
As has also been stated ‘soccer’ is already extremely strong at the grass-roots level, this, coupled with Australia’s large ethnic population ensures that it can be self-sustaining.
Your point regarding the worldwide status of the two sports also isn’t quite accurate. ‘Soccer’ is played everywhere; professional leagues exist in most nations. Basketball has started to gain momentum in Europe and in parts of Asia, but there is still plenty of room for it to grow. One sports is truly global, the other slowly gaining popularity and may well challenge ‘soccer’ for its global mantle one day in the future.
Oh yeah, and GO THE SUNS!!!
I don't really agree with that.I think it works both ways. I could give a plethora of examples where the media itself, through top-down marketing, have created the interest and hype itself, or even held it back. For example, the daily telegraph in sydney have a liftout 'football fever' every tuesday for soccer fans, no doubt paid for by sponsors. This was never available in the old nsl. It has given exposure. The lift-out, mainly focusing on sydney FC, creates exposure and interst to those football curious. And this liftout will exposure will no continue whether sydney win lose or draw. I'm sure many people became interested in the world cup, only because of hype created around it, not through overt interest in the game itself. Media expoure alone helps and occurs not necessarily because more people attend the games.
There's always exceptions to the rule, I could come up with them for every sport. Like how News Ltd, being a 50% owner of the NRL, would obviously give rugby league preference in their newspapers, all other things being equal. I know the AFL have a deal with media outlets in Sydney to provide a minimum level of coverage.
But the bottom line is that they're a business, and they will put in their paper whatever sells the most papers (or alternatively earns the most revenue). They aren't just going to publicise a sport (or any other event) if there isn't anything in it for them.
Yes, and they don't have decling crowds.
If crowds decline after winning the comp, they would be in crisis.
Other than 86/87, the crowds up till 96 were pretty ordinary, as you have shown. But, not because of fans, but through financial luck, and a bit of help from AFL headquarters, the club kept their head above water.
But you can put that down to being completely sh*t. Imagine Sydney FC after 7 or 8 years like the Swans had from the late 80's till the mid 90's. Not many professional sporting clubs would survive that without some generous benefactors.
And I wouldn't say the Swans crowds were that bad. In the 1980's every year the Swans average attendance was well ahead of the NSWRL average attendance. You've got to put things in perspective.
The club and the AFL has worked tirelessly over the past decade to hype it up, and it has actually worked to some extent. And that's my point, the difference between Perth glory and Nth spirit in the nsl, and Melb victory and Sydney FC in the a-league is that this time, the clubs have governing body administration at the highest level to ensure business success, and to guide through tough times, just like the swans had.
Eh? How can you say Sydney and Melbourne are going through tough times? One won the league last year, the other is on top of the ladder this year. The Swans won 4 straight spoons. In a 15 team comp.
Yes, but that's just your opinion. Many people go along to a-league games and enjoy the match, as simple as that. I do for one. Sure, it isn't the highest standard. That doesn't deter everyone. I'm confident that the lowest standard is the starting point, ie last year. Do you really think that a guy like Frank Lowy is going to not want to continually improve the standard from here? If a man like Lowy says failure is not an option, I tend to believe him.
Of course it's my opinion, I don't try and present it as fact.
It's all well and good putting your faith in Lowy, but he aint holding a gun to people's heads to show up. And if interest starts to wane, what's he going to do? It's failing pretty badly over here in the West. Where's Lowy? I'd bring up New Zealand, but that would be too cruel on him. It's pretty easy to call things a roaring success when you're blind to the areas in which things look grim.
If it can happen in Perth, it can happen in Melbourne or Sydney. And the signs (particularly in Melbourne) are so familiar it's spooky.
The difference between the Glory several yrs ago and the Victory is that back then they ruled the roost of a mickey mouse NSL competition that never had any scope for burgeoning improvement.
The A-league have set the foundations for a long lasting and improving competition. The standard is a lot better and will continue to improve with more and more aussies abroad coming back and eventually preferring to stay at home rather than play in a 2nd/3rd tier euro league. In time all but the very best will stay, in turn the standard will continue to rise. More importantly the fact that we are now part of Asia gives the sport another exciting dimension. A few people on here have said the only time they will watch soccer is when Australia is playing in an important match, fair enough, an Asian Champions League semi-final or final with your local team representing Australia is a pretty exciting prospect I'd say :)
Theres more money in soccer now with the last TV rights deal with Foxtel, there'll be a lot more $$$ to come from tv rights in the lucrative asian market both for the national and club teams, this is no fad, its the real deal.
realfootball
14 Nov 2006, 09:50
Then why does the AFL have consistently higher crowds to their games than these other 2 codes? Soccer doesn't even have anything to really compete with at this time of year yet barely drew a crowd of 10k on the weekend. At the moment it's a novelty, it'll soon wear off.
I'm not saying soccer is ingrained in the general public here either. What i am saying is that, depite the swans getting good crowds here, they just aren't of major public interest, compared to the traditional sports here. The point is, some people obviously say that that they believe that AFL is ingrained in the pubic culture in Australia. I'm saying its not in sydney. Although, in recent seasons, the public through mass marketing, and succuss on the field, they (swans) have become more prominent, which is great. But i'm a realist. I don't see it really being much different to the melbourne storm situation in melbourne. The club is there, it gets some local following, it has some ex-pats going. In the case of sydney swans , the club has all those factors, but, and its a big 'but', it has cleverly and successfully marketed very well to well heeled la-di-da north shore/eastern suburbs females, who love the game. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but that is a fair chunk of the represntation of fans at swans games, and that has become, in my opinion more prominent over the past decade. The club and game is not ingrained in sydney nor NSW culture. You go to most rural NSW areas, and the locals generally play rugby league and/or to a lesser extent, soccer. Sure the far west and southern/albury areas might be exceptions.
On the other hand, for reasons in the other posts, there is absolutely no evidence at all that the a-league will soon wear off. none at all. That crowd you mentioned was no worse for the same fixture last year. again,The crowds are increasing on average. That is the evidence.
realfootball
14 Nov 2006, 10:03
Interest in supporting or playing? I know a tonne of ppl who play soccer but follow AFL far more passionately than they do Soccer. A lot of them don't even support a Soccer team at all but they follow AFL very strongly.
Actually, if I remember correctly it is interest in the sport. What that means, I don't know, bec as you say, there is varying levels of interest. However, it is a significant finding. In terms of participation, junior and senior levels are highest for soccer (over other football codes, not other sports), that has been shown in other threads over the last few years. They can be found at the abs, and plenty of other people have posted them before.
People just want to be entertained and a lot of people simply don't find Soccer entertaining, why do you think in the EPL there's so many fights and all they do is sing? It's 'cause they're bored.
The same boredom factor could be said fair any sport. Sure, some people don't find soccer entertaining. However when I try to get some of my mates to go to swans games with me, they say no, AFL is boring.
The fighting/boredom theory you ave put forward is just simplistic. There are many factors that go into football violence, and I doubt if any has to do with boredom.
Coastering
14 Nov 2006, 14:26
Stats only tell half the story. A Sweeney study undertaken during the biggest bandwagoning period in Australian sport (the World Cup) is going to inflate the popularity of soccer. Likewise any stats regarding junior soccer participation are irrelevant when it comes to AFL and its popularity. I suspect that the stats for the USA and Canada are the same as Australia - that soccer has more junior participation than grid iron or ice hockey but that it hardly rates as a spectator sport.
Different people get bored by different sports but games requiring a high level of physical contact, a broader range of skills and more strategic possibilties are always going to more popular in countries like Australia.
realfootball
14 Nov 2006, 15:40
Stats only tell half the story. A Sweeney study undertaken during the biggest bandwagoning period in Australian sport (the World Cup) is going to inflate the popularity of soccer. Likewise any stats regarding junior soccer participation are irrelevant when it comes to AFL and its popularity. I suspect that the stats for the USA and Canada are the same as Australia - that soccer has more junior participation than grid iron or ice hockey but that it hardly rates as a spectator sport. .
This is not correct at all imho. First of all, if you take a look at the report, soccer has consistently been quite popular (in public interest) years before the world cup, including recent data, taken BEFORE the WC. Second, the researchers themsleves are quite clear that they expect this interest to continue for the reasons that they and myself previously have outlined.
Different people get bored by different sports but games requiring a high level of physical contact, a broader range of skills and more strategic possibilties are always going to more popular in countries like Australia.
What constitutes a broader range of skills is quite subjective. If this assumption was correct, then we may as well say goodbye to cricket from now on, as it isn't physical enough, despite its popularity.
realfootball
14 Nov 2006, 16:09
There's always exceptions to the rule, I could come up with them for every sport. Like how News Ltd, being a 50% owner of the NRL, would obviously give rugby league preference in their newspapers, all other things being equal. I know the AFL have a deal with media outlets in Sydney to provide a minimum level of coverage.
But the bottom line is that they're a business, and they will put in their paper whatever sells the most papers (or alternatively earns the most revenue). They aren't just going to publicise a sport (or any other event) if there isn't anything in it for them...
I take your point, and what i'm saying is, that, now that major sponsors are involved in the a-league, papers can run such 'liftouts' for their own financial benefit. This in turn creates exposure to the general public. Before, many people had not even heard of 'northern spirit' despite living in Sydney.- no positive soccer exposure. Everyone now knows about Sydney FC.
But you can put that down to being completely sh*t. Imagine Sydney FC after 7 or 8 years like the Swans had from the late 80's till the mid 90's. Not many professional sporting clubs would survive that without some generous benefactors.
And I wouldn't say the Swans crowds were that bad. In the 1980's every year the Swans average attendance was well ahead of the NSWRL average attendance. You've got to put things in perspective...
No the swans crowds haven't been that bad, and neither have Sydney FC's crowds, or Victory's, or QLD's crowds for that matter. In fact, the average crowd is looking pretty good, and even if the crowds fall off, they have the ability to be bailed out by the FFA, if the FFA wants to do it. They have the cash to do it, it seems.
Eh? How can you say Sydney and Melbourne are going through tough times? One won the league last year, the other is on top of the ladder this year. The Swans won 4 straight spoons. In a 15 team comp...
No, I didn't explain myself clearly. I'm saying that if they did go through tough times in the future, they can be bailed out, unlike clubs in the old nsl
Of course it's my opinion, I don't try and present it as fact.
It's all well and good putting your faith in Lowy, but he aint holding a gun to people's heads to show up. And if interest starts to wane, what's he going to do? It's failing pretty badly over here in the West. Where's Lowy? I'd bring up New Zealand, but that would be too cruel on him. It's pretty easy to call things a roaring success when you're blind to the areas in which things look grim. ..
I'd agree. I know through a number of glory fans in the west that this team is not in good shape, -and NZ well, its a disaster. (I think this may have been the FFA's and John O'Neils worst decision). To be honest what I think Lowy will do is just let market forces previal. If the WA franchise doesn't pay it's way, with a sound business plan, then maybe they will get the boot. Some other franchise from another place will move in. I can't see the FFA financing dodgy set-ups. Maybe the people of WA are just soccer 'novel' bandwagonners, I don't know, you'd know better than me. But it's definately not like that here.
Coastering
15 Nov 2006, 08:12
Soccer's popularity jumped 15% this year, that is not consistency. If you want consistent results look at AFL. It is irrelevant what the researchers think about the future, it is the results of this study next year that matter. My guess is that soccer will drop off (again) without the hype of the World Cup.
What constitutes a broader range of skills is not subjective. I have played soccer, basketball and ice hockey at a junior level. I have done all the drills, learnt all the skills for these games. Soccer is a far easier sport to pick up due to the limited skill set required. That is fact.
Cricket, like a baseball in the US, has a long history in Australia. I suspect that has a lot to due with its appeal.
realfootball
15 Nov 2006, 08:39
Soccer's popularity jumped 15% this year, that is not consistency. If you want consistent results look at AFL. It is irrelevant what the researchers think about the future, it is the results of this study next year that matter. My guess is that soccer will drop off (again) without the hype of the World Cup.
What constitutes a broader range of skills is not subjective. I have played soccer, basketball and ice hockey at a junior level. I have done all the drills, learnt all the skills for these games. Soccer is a far easier sport to pick up due to the limited skill set required. That is fact.
Cricket, like a baseball in the US, has a long history in Australia. I suspect that has a lot to due with its appeal.
What I said was that soccer has been consistently popular ( by the way, more than both rugby codes), according to this research. No doubt a WC is going to INCREASE this popularity. Wouldn't argue with you there.
I'm sorry, I still disagree with you on this skill set thing. I'm sitting on the fence, because I know my experience atm having played 3 football codes at varying levels still doesn't constitute objectivity. There have there have been threads on this topic and some very die-hard afl fans have still put forward strong arguments for soccer having a stronger skill set. As you say, you have played some sports, and it is therefore YOUR subjective experience as to which ones are more 'skillful', based purely on your experience. At a junior/amateur level, sure anyone can kick/head a ball. At a professional level, it's a different 'ball game' all together. Anyone could come up with arguments for and against on both sides.
Cricket has had a long history, you are right. And it is not really that physical.
It's also important to point out that cricket was heading down the gurgler fast, in the 1970's, until packer bailed it out with WSC - Not unlike the Lowy led A-league.