IF Ben Cousins had played for Port......

[portentous]

how do you think our club would have handled things? Would he still be with us?

I can't imagine Gavin Wanganeen ever behaving that badly but IF he had, what would our expectations have been re the consequences? Does what happen in the off-season have ANY impact on a players' future at the club?

Are West Coast soft, or have other clubs just been better at "hushing things up"? Are they the "new St Kilda" re culture off-field or is Cousins the only offender?

[Toots Hibbert]

Just watch the Dean Brogan incident unfold to completion and you'll have your answer Portentous.

We could also look at the club's handling of Byron Pickett but I guess the difference is that despite a few of field dramas Cousins has continued to play really well whereas Pickett's form was pretty poor in his last year at Alberton.

In Cousins case he lost the captaincy of the club. Another player with apparently even bigger issues, Gardiner, is no longer there.

I think the club needs to balance a few issues. They include maintaining a good image, ensuring that the playing group remain focussed on the goal of onfield success and also getting the best value out of the squad of players it has recruited.

You would be reluctant to dump a player but a situation could occur where not doing so sends too many wrong signals to the other players and does too much damage to the club's reputation.

[morell]

Its not as if the Port boys have been angels.

Look at;

Burgoyne
Heuskes
Brogan
Pickett
Thurstans

Look at the way the club handled those issues ...

[manureid]

West Coast's fourth pick at the 2006 NAB AFL draft, Will Schofield, initially prepared himself for a life in Adelaide when he first heard his name read out in the draft.

In all the commotion of the big occasion, Schofield heard his name called out but missed what club he had been drafted by, initially believing he was headed to the Power.

"Mum and dad were really happy and giving me hugs but I had no idea where I was going … I thought it was Port Adelaide," Schofield said with a laugh.

"To hear it was West Coast - I was over the moon. You probably couldn't come to a more professional setting. I'd rather go to West Coast any day of the week.
"You look at (Chris) Judd and (Ben) Cousins - the best players in the league. To get the opportunity to come and play with them, you couldn't ask for much more."


Made more amusing given little Bennies latest indescretion. Bennie is displaying all of the professionalism that this young fellow should take on board and emulate. :D

[goneloco62]

I say with all the problems with theirs players maybe the Worst COaST COOLERS oops i mean Eagles should buy the old FREO PRISON to house their players so that when they do play up the police/courts can just return them home to the club:D

[Gunnar Longshanks]

People are acting as though Cousins got caught in a hotel room with a pound of cocaine and a dozen underage prostitutes.

He got drunk at a club.

Is this really worth all the questions about whether WC are soft and have a rotten culture?

Last I checked, West Coast have a pretty good on-field record, so we must be doing something right.

Having a few players who like the sauce hasn't completely derailed the club, has it?

The media love these stories, and the punters eat it up because they get to tut-tut and be all high-and-mighty and judgemental.

But seriously, do you really care? Is it really that big a deal?

Is anyone seriously suggesting that this is horribly damaging to the club and the player group?

It's just overblown and people are all over it because there's nothing else happening.

Cousins will front up to training in immaculate condition. WC will be thereabouts in 2007 and Cousins will still be a gun.

But in the meantime, let's all freak out about the fact he got drunk.

Can you be bothered?

[dreamkillers]

People are acting as though Cousins got caught in a hotel room with a pound of cocaine and a dozen underage prostitutes.

He got drunk at a club.

Is this really worth all the questions about whether WC are soft and have a rotten culture?

Last I checked, West Coast have a pretty good on-field record, so we must be doing something right.

Having a few players who like the sauce hasn't completely derailed the club, has it?

The media love these stories, and the punters eat it up because they get to tut-tut and be all high-and-mighty and judgemental.

But seriously, do you really care? Is it really that big a deal?

Is anyone seriously suggesting that this is horribly damaging to the club and the player group?

It's just overblown and people are all over it because there's nothing else happening.

Cousins will front up to training in immaculate condition. WC will be thereabouts in 2007 and Cousins will still be a gun.

But in the meantime, let's all freak out about the fact he got drunk.

Can you be bothered?

it's the off season so don't take the posts too seriously..........:D

[Toots Hibbert]

Not only that but the thread is actually looking at how we would manage a situation.

I'd have to say, Gunnar, that given that you like to endlessly bump old threads about the Eagles you can hardly complain if people are taking a good hard look at your team and it's players. It's no different to celebrities who are happy to get positive media attention but then complain when there is bad publicity.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I'd have to say, Gunnar, that given that you like to endlessly bump old threads about the Eagles...What has that got to do with anything?

...you can hardly complain if people are taking a good hard look at your team and it's players. Take a good hard look. Go for your life.

Just don't draw stupid conclusions.

Cousins getting drunk is not very serious. Let's not pretend otherwise.

What will the ramifications of this be? With the attention paid to it, you'd think there would actually be some pretty significant consequences for the club and the player.

But there won't be. This will change nothing. That's why I consider it trivial.

[Troy Wingate]

I wouldn't expect West Coast to get rid of Cousins, he is too good a player and is too valuable to the club. Chris Judd may officially have the captaincy, but Ben Cousins is still the captain on field.

[Porthos]

This is becoming borderline Twilight Zone

[dreamkillers]

Cousins getting drunk is not very serious. Let's not pretend otherwise.

What will the ramifications of this be? With the attention paid to it, you'd think there would actually be some pretty significant consequences for the club and the player.

But there won't be. This will change nothing. That's why I consider it trivial.

Completely agree but the media and discussion boards will always have a bit of fun with things like this given the lack of real footy news in the off season.

[dreamkillers]

This is becoming borderline Twilight Zone

It would definitely be there is this was the footy season.........

[morell]

What has that got to do with anything?

Take a good hard look. Go for your life.

Just don't draw stupid conclusions.

Cousins getting drunk is not very serious. Let's not pretend otherwise.

What will the ramifications of this be? With the attention paid to it, you'd think there would actually be some pretty significant consequences for the club and the player.

But there won't be. This will change nothing. That's why I consider it trivial.

Completely agree but the media and discussion boards will always have a bit of fun with things like this given the lack of real footy news in the off season. I'm not sure it should be considered trivial.

He is a professional athlete who has essentially committed a misdemeanour / crime.

He is 28 and should know better, it is by no means a gravely serious matter but it shouldnt be swept under the rug either.

Like it or lump it, he is a role model, if he doesn’t want to be one, that’s fine. Not many people look up to the local plumber who earns 70K a year ;)

I am sick of both arguments;

a) AFL footballers should be Jesus like figures
b) AFL footballers are just normal people like you and me

As usual its all about balance.

What will the ramifications of this be?Perhaps another contribution to the continued flawed logic of the Australian psyche that alcohol abuse is harmless and a bit of fun?

[RussellEbertHandball]

He got drunk and did what?? Chucked up? Punched somebody? Mooned someone? Had a leak in public? When I find out what hid did, I might raise half a concern. Another example of a footballer, of all persuassions, doing the the wrong thing. The cops dealt with him, if need be, the law will as well so, big deal? I actually enjoy this sort of crap. It gives all the morals officers on these boards and in the media something to have a football orgasm about. I guess it's better to have a football orgasm than none at all. Did anybody get hurt? I don't think so.

Average player mucks up, club fines him, maybe dismisses him.
Great player mucks up, fine him, keep him on the list, we need to win the flag.
What else do you expect from this industry? NEXT!!

[morell]

He got drunk and did what?? Chucked up? Punched somebody? Mooned someone? Had a leak in public? When I find out what hid did, I might raise half a concern. Another example of a footballer, of all persuassions, doing the the wrong thing. The cops dealt with him, if need be, the law will as well so, big deal? I actually enjoy this sort of crap. It gives all the morals officers on these boards and in the media something to have a football orgasm about. I guess it's better to have a football orgasm than none at all. Did anybody get hurt? I don't think so.

Average player mucks up, club fines him, maybe dismisses him.
Great player mucks up, fine him, keep him on the list, we need to win the flag.
What else do you expect from this industry? NEXT!!Is it ok if he did heroin or cocaine?

If not, what is the difference?

I would hazard a guess that alcohol abuse destroys more familles and lives than all the other drugs combined. Yet the abuse of it is socially acceptable. Very strange.

Mods. I think its moved into the twilight zone.

[Sandola]

Could I drag it back to the main Power board by asking if anyone has news about Brogan? Wasn't he supposed to go to court in October or November? Nothing in the local papers?

[DSL64]

Is it ok if he did heroin or cocaine?

If not, what is the difference?

I would hazard a guess that alcohol abuse destroys more familles and lives than all the other drugs combined. Yet the abuse of it is socially acceptable. Very strange.

Mods. I think its moved into the twilight zone.

Difference is alcohol is legal...
The last time I looked, heroin & cocaine is not...

[dreamkillers]

I'm not sure it should be considered trivial.

Trivial isn't probably the way I would see it but these things happen at each and every AFL footy club and are generally hushed up if they can.

If the allegations of what Farmer did are true I would hope he gets the appropriate punishment but we'll have to wait and see what actually happened before making judgement there.

He is a professional athlete who has essentially committed a misdemeanour / crime.

Correct but this latest incident is very minor compared to a couple of his pasts efforts and in this case most clubs would have players each year in the same situation.............it's just the clubs will do their utmost to ensure it isn't leaked into the media.

He is 28 and should know better, it is by no means a gravely serious matter but it shouldnt be swept under the rug either.

It won't be swept under the carpet......the club will discipline him in some way especially given past incidents and if any charges are laid he will face them with it getting a huge media blitz that any ordinary person would never face.

Like it or lump it, he is a role model, if he doesn’t want to be one, that’s fine. Not many people look up to the local plumber who earns 70K a year ;)


Agreed and things like this when they leak out mean he faces a lot more exposure and negative publicity than any local plumber would and as I said above the club will certainly ensure he is punished for it.

I am sick of both arguments;

a) AFL footballers should be Jesus like figures
b) AFL footballers are just normal people like you and me

As usual its all about balance.
It certainly is and balance that up with the amount of publicity this gets compared to if it was a local plumber and you'll see they get a bigger punishment.

Perhaps another contribution to the continued flawed logic of the Australian psyche that alcohol abuse is harmless and a bit of fun?

I wouldn't say that as I wouldn't put this into some of the extreme alcohol abuse that goes on in this country every single day of the week but like a lot of things governments want to be seen to be doing something but in reality they don't want to reveal the true extent of the problem.

If you have a problem with this type of thing it's state and federal governments you should be addressing it with as they're very good at hiding the 'real problems' this country faces as unfortunately bringing them out into the open isn't a vote winner.

[dreamkillers]

Could I drag it back to the main Power board by asking if anyone has news about Brogan? Wasn't he supposed to go to court in October or November? Nothing in the local papers?

last I heard was that the case had been deferred but no idea to when and when that happened........given it's a court case we can pretty much be guaranteed when it goes to court it will be on the front page of the Adelaide paper.

[dreamkillers]

Is it ok if he did heroin or cocaine?

Not at all and there are much more serious consequences if it was.

If not, what is the difference?

The AFL player regulations and the law.

I would hazard a guess that alcohol abuse destroys more familles and lives than all the other drugs combined. Yet the abuse of it is socially acceptable. Very strange.

Agreed although the real effect of other drugs won't really be known for a number of years yet given all the new and different substances used in them.

If you want to blame anyone for it being socially acceptable it's the government/s as they really don't put the effort into things like this as they don't see it as a vote winner.......they are more interested in short term fixes/stunts that will win them the next election instead of putting real long term agendas into solving things for the long term.

Mods. I think its moved into the twilight zone.

It's very close.........

[morell]

Difference is alcohol is legal...
The last time I looked, heroin & cocaine is not...

Not at all and there are much more serious consequences if it was.

The AFL player regulations and the law.
So the severity of the issue is dependant on the regulations (which are greatly affected by how much tax the substance can earn the government rather than the health or criminal ramifications) that binds the substance in use rather than the severity of the issue itself?

Are you saying that if the government decides to regulate illicit drugs, AFL players should be free to use them, providing the AFL is ok with that as well? Silly assertion perhaps, but dope could conceivably be legalised.

Drug abuse is drug abuse, wether that drug is legal or not should not be the sole determining factor on what is socially acceptable and what isn’t. What should be a factor is how much influence that abuse is having on people lives – in the case of Cousins I would say very little, nonetheless, the accepting trend of many Australian's towards alcohol abuse is a major reason why it is such a scourge on society.

[morell]

Trivial isn't probably the way I would see it but these things happen at each and every AFL footy club and are generally hushed up if they can.Absolutely, including ours, hence why we should be bringing this sort of stuff into the limelight, rather than shunning it.

If the allegations of what Farmer did are true I would hope he gets the appropriate punishment but we'll have to wait and see what actually happened before making judgement there.I am not aware of this story so I will keep my big mouth shut on that one....

Correct but this latest incident is very minor compared to a couple of his pasts efforts and in this case most clubs would have players each year in the same situation.............it's just the clubs will do their utmost to ensure it isn't leaked into the media. Sure. Still isn’t good enough for a professional athlete, If he wants to behave in such a manner, no dramas, can completely understand, join me and my mates down at the pub, along with our 9 till 5 jobs and piss poor pay.

If players want all the spoils of AFL and celebrity, they should have to put up with some of the restrictions as well. One of them is behaving in a manner which reflects well on your club.

It won't be swept under the carpet......the club will discipline him in some way especially given past incidents and if any charges are laid he will face them with it getting a huge media blitz that any ordinary person would never face.

Agreed and things like this when they leak out mean he faces a lot more exposure and negative publicity than any local plumber would and as I said above the club will certainly ensure he is punished for it.Yeah agreed, I'm not saying he should be sacked/dropped or anything like that, but I also don’t think he should be free from criticism.

On the celebrity bit, the normal person doesn’t get paid 500k a year for kicking a football around an oval, or 10K for my picture to be on a weeties box. As I said, if he doesn’t want that, he absolutely has the choice to step down and become the aforementioned plumber aka Stuart Dew and Adrian DeLuca

I know which choice he, and I, would make.

I wouldn't say that as I wouldn't put this into some of the extreme alcohol abuse that goes on in this country every single day of the week but like a lot of things governments want to be seen to be doing something but in reality they don't want to reveal the true extent of the problem.Absolutely. Cousins isn’t even the tip of the top of the tip of the iceberg.

If you have a problem with this type of thing it's state and federal governments you should be addressing it with as they're very good at hiding the 'real problems' this country faces as unfortunately bringing them out into the open isn't a vote winner.Agreed, and have done so.

My thesis at uni was based on such matters >

"A spatial approach to identifying and creating key poverty indicators"

In other words, how do I display and highlight alcohol abuse (and other things) effectively on a map, its a good read of you can get you hands on it :o .

[morell]

Agreed although the real effect of other drugs won't really be known for a number of years yet given all the new and different substances used in them.
There is now a massive market for fresh, naturally grown dope (especially amongst the baby boomer generation) as responsible users are sick to death of speed laced dope messing with their heads.

Like normal dope is any better but that is a whole other argument …

If you want to blame anyone for it being socially acceptable it's the government/s as they really don't put the effort into things like this as they don't see it as a vote winner.......they are more interested in short term fixes/stunts that will win them the next election instead of putting real long term agendas into solving things for the long term.One of the toughest things the authorities will face is swaying public opinion.

Nearly everyone has a relative or friend who they know drinks too much, hell I’ve got several, and yet it goes by without concern. The pissed larrikin is almost a hero, someone to look up too. How many times have you heard the “I could drink you under the table” argument? Check out the limbo club for more confirmation ...

Getting it into people heads that alcohol abuse can ******** you and your family up big time is not easy in the Aussie beer swilling on a hot day barbie culture.

Don’t get me started on underage drinking ...

[dreamkillers]

So the severity of the issue is dependant on the regulations (which are greatly affected by how much tax the substance can earn the government rather than the health or criminal ramifications) that binds the substance in use rather than the severity of the issue itself?

I can assure you the $ cost to society of legal drug abuse is much more than the taxes it brings in. If alcohol and cigarettes were made illegal all that would do is play into the hands of criminals who would exploit things and make lots of money for themselves as what happens with illegal drugs now as well as who knows what other things they would put into them which would be even more detrimental to the health of those that use them.

Are you saying that if the government decides to regulate illicit drugs, AFL players should be free to use them, providing the AFL is ok with that as well? Silly assertion perhaps, but dope could conceivably be legalised.

Not saying that at all but in a way if they were legalised they could be controlled a lot more than present given there is only 1 motivation for those that produce/sell them - make as much money as possible without looking at the consequences to those that use them...........

I know of at least half a dozen people that were in the same year as myself at high school many years ago that are no longer here due to the 'extra substances' put into drugs they used so the dealers made more money without any thought of the damage they do.

Drug abuse is drug abuse, wether that drug is legal or not should not be the sole determining factor on what is socially acceptable and what isn’t. What should be a factor is how much influence that abuse is having on people lives – in the case of Cousins I would say very little, nonetheless, the accepting trend of many Australian's towards alcohol abuse is a major reason why it is such a scourge on society.

I agree that drug abuse is drug abuse and not sure why you bring up being socially acceptable or not as you didn't reply to the rest of my post which I believe covers my thoughts on that.

Governments in this country traditionally are not interested in looking at long term problems like this as it won't win them votes from the 'sheep who only look at what personally affects them' who vote for them at each election. Unfortunately on top of this is big media outlets controlled by only a few people who again are only looking at the $$'s they can bring in and not about promoting 'real change' that would benefit all in the short, medium and long term.


Time to move this discussion to the twilight zone..........

[dreamkillers]

Absolutely, including ours, hence why we should be bringing this sort of stuff into the limelight, rather than shunning it.

We'll never be able to convince club's it's in their interests to bring things like this out into the limelight as it will affect their bottom line.

I am not aware of this story so I will keep my big mouth shut on that one....

You'll be hearing about it in the media in coming days/weeks.......

Sure. Still isn’t good enough for a professional athlete, If he wants to behave in such a manner, no dramas, can completely understand, join me and my mates down at the pub, along with our 9 till 5 jobs and piss poor pay.

If players want all the spoils of AFL and celebrity, they should have to put up with some of the restrictions as well. One of them is behaving in a manner which reflects well on your club.

The clubs certainly do try and control things like that but these players also have lots of 'interesting' characters hanging off them and unfortunately the more $'s involved the more these characters hang off them.

As a completely different example have a look at the Tour de Farce (France) and all the illegal activities that happen there with the support of plenty of big businesses.

Yeah agreed, I'm not saying he should be sacked/dropped or anything like that, but I also don’t think he should be free from criticism.

He'll get more criticism than any average person who committed the same offence/s and probably be affected in areas he could make money away from footy.

On the celebrity bit, the normal person doesn’t get paid 500k a year for kicking a football around an oval, or 10K for my picture to be on a weeties box. As I said, if he doesn’t want that, he absolutely has the choice to step down and become the aforementioned plumber aka Stuart Dew and Adrian DeLuca

I know which choice he, and I, would make.

It's a lot easier to say that than actually do it if you are in their situation giving the amount of people that hang off them.

That said we will see more Dew's and DeLuca's now that the game is full time professional but plenty of them will continue to chase the lifestyle and $'s it brings.

Absolutely. Cousins isn’t even the tip of the top of the tip of the iceberg.

correct and there are a lot more problems with this by those that have no $'s or life as the average person knows......again the govt and media do little to highlight and address these 'real problems'.

Agreed, and have done so.

My thesis at uni was based on such matters >

"A spatial approach to identifying and creating key poverty indicators"

In other words, how do I display and highlight alcohol abuse (and other things) effectively on a map, its a good read of you can get you hands on it :o .

Will certainly look out for it as these type of publications always make interesting reading that the average person like to avoid........Peter Garrett was a very big influence on me when I was in high school much to the annoyance of my parents as they hated discussing anything political.

[dreamkillers]

There is now a massive market for fresh, naturally grown dope (especially amongst the baby boomer generation) as responsible users are sick to death of speed laced dope messing with their heads.

Like normal dope is any better but that is a whole other argument …

Not just speed but all those lovely chemicals used in hydro crops........the real health cost of this won't be really know for quite a few years yet.

One of the toughest things the authorities will face is swaying public opinion.

Always has been the problem and to an extent it's worse in this country as too many of the 'sheep' just go along with the flow as they aren't interested in looking at consequences until it personally affects them.

Nearly everyone has a relative or friend who they know drinks too much, hell I’ve got several, and yet it goes by without concern. The pissed larrikin is almost a hero, someone to look up too. How many times have you heard the “I could drink you under the table” argument? Check out the limbo club for more confirmation ...

and if they do get concerned it's generally only when it personally affects them.........I'll avoid the limbo club just like I do with Bay 13 as I'm not interested in garbage.

Getting it into people heads that alcohol abuse can ******** you and your family up big time is not easy in the Aussie beer swilling on a hot day barbie culture.

Don’t get me started on underage drinking ...

Unfortunately the authorities will probably only be able to sway public opinion when things are 'supposedly critical' or later than that.

A classic example is to look at the number of environmental issues that have been known for decades but are only really looked at when it's almost/is too late to properly address them.

Water usage/wastage in this country is a classic example of this.

[Carnport]

My thesis at uni was based on such matters >

"A spatial approach to identifying and creating key poverty indicators"

In other words, how do I display and highlight alcohol abuse (and other things) effectively on a map, its a good read of you can get you hands on it :o .

Sauce...

[morell]

I can assure you the $ cost to society of legal drug abuse is much more than the taxes it brings in. If alcohol and cigarettes were made illegal all that would do is play into the hands of criminals who would exploit things and make lots of money for themselves as what happens with illegal drugs now as well as who knows what other things they would put into them which would be even more detrimental to the health of those that use them.The government is making billions out of people's lung cancer and alcohol abuse.

The Howard Government expects to collect $7.36 billion this financial year in excises, primarily from alcohol and tobacco

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/31/1075340891742.html?from=storyrhs

You could argue that it is offset by the 39 billion set aside for health in the 06 budget, and that the overall cost of smoking and alcohol is far greater, but the government cannot do without that 8 billion, year in year out.

I’m not saying lets make the use of cigarettes of alcohol illegal, but at least make it unpopular to do so. A task far more difficult.

Not saying that at all but in a way if they were legalised they could be controlled a lot more than present given there is only 1 motivation for those that produce/sell them - make as much money as possible without looking at the consequences to those that use them...........There are many arguments for legalising illicit drugs;

Safety - regulation means we all know what is in them
Control - instead of going to the dodgy bloke with a gun for your fix, you go to the chemist
Money - much like ciggies and alcohol, the state makes money, which it can then spend going to war :oops:

Imagine trying to get it past some of the fundamentalists though

I know of at least half a dozen people that were in the same year as myself at high school many years ago that are no longer here due to the 'extra substances' put into drugs they used so the dealers made more money without any thought of the damage they do.Its an absolute god damned tragedy what has happened to the youth of this country since the 60's. As you can probably tell, this is a passion of mine for similar reasons as yours above.

I agree that drug abuse is drug abuse and not sure why you bring up being socially acceptable or not as you didn't reply to the rest of my post which I believe covers my thoughts on that.Yeah sorry about that, this is a discussion that lengthened out considerably, plus I am responding to multiple posters, making it difficult to keep track of what I have and haven’t responded too. If I didn’t reply it was probably because I agreed and felt I couldn’t add anything more to the discussion

plus that post was more in reply to DSL84's >

Difference is alcohol is legal...
The last time I looked, heroin & cocaine is not...

Governments in this country traditionally are not interested in looking at long term problems like this as it won't win them votes from the 'sheep who only look at what personally affects them' who vote for them at each election. Unfortunately on top of this is big media outlets controlled by only a few people who again are only looking at the $$'s they can bring in and not about promoting 'real change' that would benefit all in the short, medium and long term

Time to move this discussion to the twilight zone..........Absolutely, capitalism at its finest.

We'll never be able to convince club's it's in their interests to bring things like this out into the limelight as it will affect their bottom line.Sometimes its worth a shot to air it out and show the public at large that the club is trying to help out with such difficult issues.

Just as it isn’t good publicity when it goes wrong, it is also great publicity when it goes right. Think "Port saves young gun from drug and alcohol abuse nightmare"

The clubs certainly do try and control things like that but these players also have lots of 'interesting' characters hanging off them and unfortunately the more $'s involved the more these characters hang off themSure, perhaps even more time and money needs to spent on educating the players on such matters.

This is the crux of the problem. Sometimes I feel that the education of young people is geared towards fear and scare tactics. That only makes it cooler. We need to somehow make it so it is "uncool" to get stupidly inebriated or to smoke a joint. One way to do this is to make the role models young ones look up to behave in such a manner that it convinces them that is the way to go. Hence why this Ben Cousins issue could be used effectively to educate.

As a completely different example have a look at the Tour de Farce (France) and all the illegal activities that happen there with the support of plenty of big businesses.I’ll admit I don’t know much about this scene. I though it was more performance enhancing drugs than illicit or recreational...

He'll get more criticism than any average person who committed the same offence/s and probably be affected in areas he could make money away from footy. Just like he would get more plaudits and rewards than any average person for performing the same feats or actions eg Michael Long goes for a walk and raises money (and good on him) all of a sudden he’s the greatest indigenous person that has ever lived. Never mind Mabo, he didn’t kick a footy.

The rewards of being a footballer far far outweigh the negatives, especially in modern times.

It's a lot easier to say that than actually do it if you are in their situation giving the amount of people that hang off them. Sure, I am not saying its all fair floss and bubble gum, I know what I would rather be doing though.

That said we will see more Dew's and DeLuca's now that the game is full time professional but plenty of them will continue to chase the lifestyle and $'s it brings.Indeed we will, I suspect we will have more Terrell Owens as well > http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=2497227

correct and there are a lot more problems with this by those that have no $'s or life as the average person knows......again the govt and media do little to highlight and address these 'real problems'.Agreed. and there are many more - seen the road toll lately? Hows aged care looking? Enough teachers? What about our water supply? etc etc etc

Never enough money I guess, but it is annoying too see billions squandered on issues the vast majority of us never wanted to happen any way, but that’s another story....

Will certainly look out for it as these type of publications always make interesting reading that the average person like to avoid........Peter Garrett was a very big influence on me when I was in high school much to the annoyance of my parents as they hated discussing anything political.I doubt you will find it, it was more posting evidence to the fact I aint just a keyboard warrior on this issue.

It was sent to every major LGA in SA and is still available in the UNISA library however...

Not just speed but all those lovely chemicals used in hydro crops........the real health cost of this won't be really know for quite a few years yet.I read a stat that there are more carcinogenics in you average 90’s dope plant than paint thinner.

.I'll avoid the limbo club just like I do with Bay 13 as I'm not interested in garbage.wise wise move.

I noted yesterday that they were having a week long masturbation tournament.

Lovely.

Unfortunately the authorities will probably only be able to sway public opinion when things are 'supposedly critical' or later than that.

A classic example is to look at the number of environmental issues that have been known for decades but are only really looked at when it's almost/is too late to properly address them.

Water usage/wastage in this country is a classic example of this.Fundamental flaw of western capitalism. I think you see a direct correlation between when an issue affects profit margins/tax base and when it becomes critical.

For example - we wont have a solution for a sustainable energy source until it is not economically viable to keep digging up fossils.

Much like we wont have a solution to Ben Cousins drinking alcohol until he cant afford it any more ... errrr :D

[morell]

Sauce...Are you asking for proof I wrote it or an actual online copy?

[morell]

Interesting article, perhaps a better synopsis of my argument than I could provide >

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/19/1079199396818.html?from=storyrhs

[RussellEbertHandball]

Is it ok if he did heroin or cocaine?

If not, what is the difference?

I would hazard a guess that alcohol abuse destroys more familles and lives than all the other drugs combined. Yet the abuse of it is socially acceptable. Very strange.

Mods. I think its moved into the twilight zone.

What has heroin or cocaine got to do with someone get pi.ssed and acting like a fool. What did he do that was so wrong that got him into trouble? I don't know, do you? If so what then. Did he beat anyone up or did he abuse people?

From a practical point of view, yes legal drugs affect people more than illegal drugs, but so what. People have consistently voted for this hypocritical double standard and it won't change in my life time.

Fear is a driver for this double standard and will always be so. How many people have shat their pants the last few years that they would be blown up by a terrorist when they are more likely to die of a car crash, skin cancer, prostrate cancer, breast cancer etc, yet they restrict their life, and want to restrict the rest of our lifes because of their disproportinate fear.

We all go on about the road toll and how it's terrible that about 1,300 people die a year. There is one way to stop it. Restrict all vehicles to 20km/hr. Will we accept this. No way. Yet we accept the death of 1,300 people a year. We aren't prepare to say we tolerate this, but we actual do. So don't expect double standards to be over turned quickly, especially on emotional matters like drugs.

Don't expect an industry that is heavily relient on alcohol $$ and constantly uses alcohol as part of the celebration of the games great moments and where most of us who love our footy combine it with alcohol to expect players to never transgress. Expect more personal responsibility, yes, perfection, no chance.

[dreamkillers]

The government is making billions out of people's lung cancer and alcohol abuse.

The Howard Government expects to collect $7.36 billion this financial year in excises, primarily from alcohol and tobacco

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/31/1075340891742.html?from=storyrhs

You could argue that it is offset by the 39 billion set aside for health in the 06 budget, and that the overall cost of smoking and alcohol is far greater, but the government cannot do without that 8 billion, year in year out.

I’m not saying lets make the use of cigarettes of alcohol illegal, but at least make it unpopular to do so. A task far more difficult.

I haven't got time to search for links on articles tonight but I know from many discussions I have had with health professionals and what I have read in various articles that the true cost to society for smoking and alcohol is at least 3-4 times that $8 billion a year. So even though the money comes in the real cost/debt is getting bigger and bigger year in year out and that cost increases each and every year at a higher rate than the taxes coming in from it increase.

Mind you I can't comment too much on it as I still smoke but will be giving it up after the Xmas/New Year Party period and will be putting the money aside to pay for a solo parachute course..........that's going to be my next addiction.

There are many arguments for legalising illicit drugs;

Safety - regulation means we all know what is in them
Control - instead of going to the dodgy bloke with a gun for your fix, you go to the chemist
Money - much like ciggies and alcohol, the state makes money, which it can then spend going to war :oops:

Imagine trying to get it past some of the fundamentalists though

It went close in the 80's and early 90's after looking at what some overseas countries have done but again the 'majority sheep voters' pretty much don't look at the big picture if it doesn't personally affect them.

Unfortunately the Federal Govt isn't interested which is apparent by the difficulty they made for the heroin centres the NSW Govt started a few years ago.

In much the same way they don't act on the 'real problems' in Aboriginal communities as it's never going to be a vote winner for them.

Its an absolute god damned tragedy what has happened to the youth of this country since the 60's. As you can probably tell, this is a passion of mine for similar reasons as yours above.

The best thing to do is get out and involved with groups that push the 'real issues' and continue pushing as maybe oneday the majority of blind sheep will start listening and hopefully before it's too late.

Something of a similar vein is the water crisis this country is facing and govts are finally starting to looking into actually doing something given it's now starting to affect the economy in a big way...........unfortunately they have left things to the last minute and there will be some big costs to pay but hopefully it's not quite past the point of no return......and hopefully they'll ignore some of the stupid suggested solutions that will impact on other parts of this planet like using icebergs to help with the supply.

I know with water that once it hits $3 a kl that there will be pipes built from up this way to pump water to southern states and whilst this may seem reasonable it doesn't look at the impact on the environment that water is being taken from. Another recent stupid suggestion is for more farmers to move up this way to take advanatge of water we generally have year round but again they aren't looking at the impact on the environment that will have up here just as long as the farmers can grow their crops.

The above is a little of the topic we've been discussing but again it shows a longer term picture on the environment that governments aren't looking at........Pete Garrett's influence on me is really showing in the above.

Yeah sorry about that, this is a discussion that lengthened out considerably, plus I am responding to multiple posters, making it difficult to keep track of what I have and haven’t responded too. If I didn’t reply it was probably because I agreed and felt I couldn’t add anything more to the discussion

plus that post was more in reply to DSL84's >

I realised that when I saw your subsequent replies.

Absolutely, capitalism at its finest.

Correct.........maybe Labor's new leadership team can work on this when they beat Howard at the next election as we've pretty much got no hope with the current govt.

Sometimes its worth a shot to air it out and show the public at large that the club is trying to help out with such difficult issues.

Just as it isn’t good publicity when it goes wrong, it is also great publicity when it goes right. Think "Port saves young gun from drug and alcohol abuse nightmare"

That could still happen if things were kept quiet before and during and then released favourably into the media/public once the situation is resolved.......clubs would never want it out in the open before and during any such activity.

Sure, perhaps even more time and money needs to spent on educating the players on such matters.

This is the crux of the problem. Sometimes I feel that the education of young people is geared towards fear and scare tactics. That only makes it cooler. We need to somehow make it so it is "uncool" to get stupidly inebriated or to smoke a joint. One way to do this is to make the role models young ones look up to behave in such a manner that it convinces them that is the way to go. Hence why this Ben Cousins issue could be used effectively to educate.

I think it will be interesting to see the AFL Players Assoc response as they are generally pretty quiet about these things when it is in their best interests to get programs in place. I'm pretty sure all AFL clubs do have some courses that players must do in relation to alcohol/drug abuse but it doesn't appear to be very effective.

Perhaps they should get them to visit the hospitals/clinics that have many examples of people seriously affected by alcohol and drugs, the open counselling sessions of AA and DA so they can see it can affect anyone from the bottom end of society right to the top.

I’ll admit I don’t know much about this scene. I though it was more performance enhancing drugs than illicit or recreational...

They are perfromance enhancing drugs.........but they are still drugs making un-natural changes to the way our body works and the real impact of them on the body is either un-known at present or not published and addressed with those that take them as it's not in the team/s interests.

Just like he would get more plaudits and rewards than any average person for performing the same feats or actions eg Michael Long goes for a walk and raises money (and good on him) all of a sudden he’s the greatest indigenous person that has ever lived. Never mind Mabo, he didn’t kick a footy.

The rewards of being a footballer far far outweigh the negatives, especially in modern times.

Actually Michael Long does a lot more work in these type of fields that don't make the media outlets as it's not something the mainstream media or governments want to focus on.

In the main I would agree with that last sentance but like most things there are always exceptions to the rules and unfortunately the Govt, AFL, Players Assoc etc don't want to have the negatives properly aired and discussed to look at 'real long term solutions'........much easier with the odd media statement and band aid approach.

Sure, I am not saying its all fair floss and bubble gum, I know what I would rather be doing though.

I think most of us would feel the same but young people with money are very easy to exploit and we will see more and more of this in the future.

Indeed we will, I suspect we will have more Terrell Owens as well > http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=2497227


Unfortunately I agree.......

Agreed. and there are many more - seen the road toll lately? Hows aged care looking? Enough teachers? What about our water supply? etc etc etc

Never enough money I guess, but it is annoying too see billions squandered on issues the vast majority of us never wanted to happen any way, but that’s another story....

Yet if the world spent less than 5% of what it does on military operations quite a lot of good could be done........again our govts tend to avoid these issues or put them on the back burner as they don't win the vote of the 'sheep' who don't look at the bigger picture unless they are personally affected.

I doubt you will find it, it was more posting evidence to the fact I aint just a keyboard warrior on this issue.

It was sent to every major LGA in SA and is still available in the UNISA library however...

I'm sure there will be some references to it using Google...........

I read a stat that there are more carcinogenics in you average 90’s dope plant than paint thinner.

Wouldn't surprise me at all when you look at the various chemicals that hydroponics shops sell......let alone the extras some growers use to stimulate growth and make things look nice.

wise wise move.

I noted yesterday that they were having a week long masturbation tournament.

Lovely.

Sounds about standard for the garbage boards.

Fundamental flaw of western capitalism. I think you see a direct correlation between when an issue affects profit margins/tax base and when it becomes critical.

We wont have a solution for a sustainable energy source until it is not economically viable to keep digging up fossils.

and unfortunately it's generally when the fix will cost many many times more what it would have been if looked at properly from when concerns are first raised........as I said above if the world put 5% of what it spends on weapons/war into fixing the planet's real problems we wouldn't be facing some of the issues we face now and unfortunately the even worse issues we will be facing in the near future.

Much like we wont have a solution to Ben Cousins drinking alcohol until he cant afford it any more ... errrr :D

:D


That's it for me tonight but I've enjoyed the discussion and I'm sure it will continue.......

[portentous]

Some people here have missed my point entirely. I'm not singling out Cousins' latest misdemeanour but rather asking about his "pattern" of behaviour. How long do you put up with it for? Is it dependent on how good a player the guy is?

All the arguments about whether AFL players are/should be role models etc are secondary. If Cousins wants to drink etc his life down the drain then so be it, but should the club keep him on the payroll when he's obviously got major offield issues? Where do you draw the line?

BTW what he did WAS illegal hence he was in the lockup. Lucky he wasn't caught behind the wheel yet again is all I can say. Sooner or later the bloke's gonna cause harm to someone other than himself.

[dreamkillers]

Some people here have missed my point entirely. I'm not singling out Cousins' latest misdemeanour but rather asking about his "pattern" of behaviour. How long do you put up with it for? Is it dependent on how good a player the guy is?

All the arguments about whether AFL players are/should be role models etc are secondary. If Cousins wants to drink etc his life down the drain then so be it, but should the club keep him on the payroll when he's obviously got major offield issues? Where do you draw the line?

BTW what he did WAS illegal hence he was in the lockup. Lucky he wasn't caught behind the wheel yet again is all I can say. Sooner or later the bloke's gonna cause harm to someone other than himself.

Actually what we have been posting is discussing your original point but more deeply in the fact what Cousins has been caught doing has been pretty common for quite a few AFL footballers except it's normally kept quiet.

I also think the AFL itself should be involved in developing acceptable and 'real' accountable policies that actually enforce codes of conduct for players on an AFL contract as this Cousins incident is one of many that happen each and every year.

On top of that is the need for governments to get more serious about alcohol abuse as that is what Cousins (and other players) continue to do each and every year whilst being held up as figure heads by the masses.