View Full Version : Coach Under Most Pressure
9th Placed Finish
11 Jan 2007, 00:05
Just wondering which AFL coach is under the most pressure to perform in 2007. At present I would say there are 8 coaches that would feel pretty secure. Worsfold, Roos, Williams, Lyon, Craig, Eade, Wallace & Clarkson. Of the others which one is going to be under the most pessure to hold their job at the end of the year.
Would have to be Pagan. He's surely going to be fired if they have another lacklustre year. After that I'd go Connoly but Fremantle seem to be on a bit of a role now and I don't see him being fired if they make a finals appearance in 07.
9th Placed Finish
11 Jan 2007, 00:12
Would have to be Pagan. He's surely going to be fired if they have another lacklustre year. After that I'd go Connoly but Fremantle seem to be on a bit of a role now and I don't see him being fired if they make a finals appearance in 07.
That was the reason I threw Connolly in there, although the Dockers made the finals in 06 a season in which they miss after the fans have had a taste and he would be very shaky. Only thing that would save him is if half the list was unable to play for most of the year, i.e. horrible run with Injury.
Thompson is right under the pump.
That team is too good to have another year like last.
There's actually a few that I think each teams board would be following closely.
If Melbourne drop at all this year Daniher will be gone.
We all know Pagan is in trouble with his clubs board.
Thompson wont survive another poor year like 2006.
Laidley will be moved on after this year, it's almost a certainty if they bottom out.
Agree with all of the above but would add the master of excuse Kevin Sheedy. Another ordinary year at Essendon and the long reign will be over.
The Zebra
11 Jan 2007, 14:06
Laidley will go if we don't play finals.
He might still go if we do play finals and lose.
Final year of his contract, he is under a heap of pressure - as he should be.
Possibly Pagan but his new youngsters for this season may help him retain his job. Time will tell.
Thompson is under enormous pressure as is Laidley.
First to be sacked? Possibly Thompson.
windsock
11 Jan 2007, 14:20
Laidley is under enormous pressure but if the Cats struggle early, Thompson will more than likely be marched out before season's end.
DapperDon
11 Jan 2007, 14:40
so what you're all saying is, If Pagan, Laidley, Daniher, Thompson and Sheedy don't make finals they'll all get the arse?
5 coaches gone in one year is highly unlikely
1. Laidley - been there long enough to 'own' the list - especially with the control he's had with trading. If the Roos miss the 8 he's gone. And that's more then likely
Tie for 2nd. Thomson & Daniher - have been at Geelong and Melbourne respectively, longer the recent premiership coaches Worsfold, Roos, Williams and Matthews were before they won a flag at their current clubs. Yet somehow these two seem to keep escaping the scrutiny. Too forgiving supporters and board IMO. There's no need to be Richmond or St. Kilda like and stab too soon, but a coach should be making the prelim's by the 4th or 5th year and a flag by the 6th year or it's time to move aside. 6 years is enough to rebuild a list, ingrain your gameplan, and show you can match day coach well enough to go all the way. These two haven't.
The rest:
Connolly - SHOULD need to back it up with at least another finals performance to remain. However it is Fremantle, so you can never tell if he'd still be there if they don't make it.
Pagan - 2007 is the last year IMO he'll be able to use the 'draft pick screw over' excuse. Will remain for 2008, but if don't improve to at least 9-10 in 2008 won't be there in 2009.
Sheedy - past success has bought him time the others don't have. Will be there in 2008 regardless, unless he wants to retire.
so what you're all saying is, If Pagan, Laidley, Daniher, Thompson and Sheedy don't make finals they'll all get the arse?
5 coaches gone in one year is highly unlikely
Do you think they have infinite lives? AFL coaching is cut-throat. Supporters and members expect their teams to always be on the improve.
Sheedy is in his last year of a contract, and if the bombers don't improve on last year, he is gone.
Pagan, not sure about his contract, but is in trouble much the same.
Daniher has been at the club for at least 10 years, and while he has been there they have been up and down, if they go down this year, he is gone.
Thompson simply will have run out of excuses if the cats fall this year. They won the preseason cup last year, were flying after be preliminary finalists the year or two before and then fell horribly....if they do again, he is gone.
Laidley employed some terrible tactics last year when under pressure and came under fire from his own members, if the Roo's stay bottom and he doesn't show something to warrant another chance he will be moved on.
All these decisions will be made by each clubs board, and I doubt they will be sitting back saying, "well two coaches have already been sacked, and I know we've under-achieved again but we better keep ours, cos three sacked coaches in a year is too many".
tin can sam
11 Jan 2007, 15:06
Mark Thompson, i hope he gets fired.
cat_fanatic_21
11 Jan 2007, 15:15
Mark Thompson, i hope he gets fired.
If we make the top four he will stay
Finish 5 – 8; and win a final he would probably stay
He will almost definitely go if we have another year like 06, or cannot win a final
jnash196
11 Jan 2007, 16:32
Last contract year for sheedy so a bad year and he is out
moistie
11 Jan 2007, 17:04
I voted for Thompson, quite a good list but not playing anywhere near potential.
Then it would be Laidley. There is an expectation at Norf that he has to keep their heads above water so they can tread water around sixth to eighth. He fails, the board realise they've screwed the pooch and have to rebuild.
The Reverend. Good list, but can't get anywhere with it. Another failure and it's time for another coach to give it a try.
Connolly. Finally getting a finals win and decent ladder position. Team coming into it's prime. No excuses.
goalpie
11 Jan 2007, 19:13
Williams because Scott was right.:D
Whoever put leigh mathews in here is one of the biggest idiots ever on bigfooty. And that is a big call..
9th Placed Finish
13 Jan 2007, 01:32
Whoever put leigh mathews in here is one of the biggest idiots ever on bigfooty. And that is a big call..
IF the Lions had their best 22 available for most of the year and still ended the season in the bottom 4 you don't think questions would be asked. Thompson had the Cats play finals the last few years and came close to getting the flick after 1 poor season. I am not saying Matthews would necessarily get the sack but the board would be asking for answers. Hence he would be under pressure.
Jimthegreat
13 Jan 2007, 05:55
Pagan by a long way. He'll still be lucky to make it to the start bof the season let alone the end. The Board doesn't want him, the players can't stand him and ex-players are willing to dip into their pockets to pay him out. Given the payout, the Board are making life tough for him by vetoing his moves and giving him all the assistanrs he's fallen out with in the past, including retaining Barry Mitchell. He might be gone completely with a new Board (we can only hope).
Let's hope he's got the "lemon and sars" as soon as possible. He's been the worst coach in out history.
Pagan by a long way. He'll still be lucky to make it to the start bof the season let alone the end. The Board doesn't want him, the players can't stand him and ex-players are willing to dip into their pockets to pay him out. Given the payout, the Board are making life tough for him by vetoing his moves and giving him all the assistanrs he's fallen out with in the past, including retaining Barry Mitchell. He might be gone completely with a new Board (we can only hope).
Let's hope he's got the "lemon and sars" as soon as possible. He's been the worst coach in out history.
That is a bit harsh on Denis IMO. True, the statistics don't lie, and he's had a shocking win-loss record at Carlton, but just look at what he's had to work with. IIRC he arrived at the club just when the AFL stung you with all those draft penalties, etc, and he had to basically build a team by trading for a lot of hacks. In that regard to do what he did in 2003 or 2004 and win 10 games for the season was a marvellous effort.
I think Denis's problem is that he came from such a successful stint at the Kangaroos that people just assumed that he'd achieve the same thing at Carlton. I wonder if it was an untried coach who took over when Pagan did with the same list and achieved the same win/loss ratio whether or not the same number of knives would be trying to find their way into his back.
IF the Lions had their best 22 available for most of the year and still ended the season in the bottom 4 you don't think questions would be asked. Thompson had the Cats play finals the last few years and came close to getting the flick after 1 poor season. I am not saying Matthews would necessarily get the sack but the board would be asking for answers. Hence he would be under pressure.
Wallace, Clarkson should be in this poll waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of leigh mathews.
Mathews is one of the best coaches ever.
Wallace and Clarkson have achieved nothing. Considering Wallace has been coaching for many years it shows your bias not to place him in the poll because you know he might win and it would embarrass you and your pathetic little club.
9th Placed Finish
13 Jan 2007, 17:42
Wallace, Clarkson should be in this poll waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of leigh mathews.
Mathews is one of the best coaches ever.
Wallace and Clarkson have achieved nothing. Considering Wallace has been coaching for many years it shows your bias not to place him in the poll because you know he might win and it would embarrass you and your pathetic little club.
So this was just another excuse to have a shot at the Tigers/Wallace.
Wallace has a 5 year contract(3 years remaining), Clarkson just signed a 2 year deal & from memory Matthews and most of the others(Sheedy, Thompson, Laidley, Pagan) are in the last year of contracts.
Unless the Tigers/Hawks finished bottom with 2 wins I could not see a reason why Wallace/Clarkson would really be under pressure. Sure the boards would want to know why but the clubs are not going to cut either coach in the middle of rebuilding their lists, otherwise the Hawks would have done so last year when Clarkson was up for renewal.
IF the Lions had their best 22 available for most of the year and still ended the season in the bottom 4 you don't think questions would be asked. Thompson had the Cats play finals the last few years and came close to getting the flick after 1 poor season. I am not saying Matthews would necessarily get the sack but the board would be asking for answers. Hence he would be under pressure.
Truthfully (I mean i'm trying not to use any bias)...Leigh matthews is not under any pressure.
nick_savo
13 Jan 2007, 18:56
I rekon Dean Laidly is under the most pressure of all those coaches.
Pagen is just expected to finish last again so there is no pressure there.
Thompson would be the other one but i have a little feeling the cats might bounce back a bit this year and just sneak into the 8 and if not the will just miss out finishing 9th.
So this was just another excuse to have a shot at the Tigers/Wallace.
Wallace has a 5 year contract(3 years remaining), Clarkson just signed a 2 year deal & from memory Matthews and most of the others(Sheedy, Thompson, Laidley, Pagan) are in the last year of contracts.
Unless the Tigers/Hawks finished bottom with 2 wins I could not see a reason why Wallace/Clarkson would really be under pressure. Sure the boards would want to know why but the clubs are not going to cut either coach in the middle of rebuilding their lists, otherwise the Hawks would have done so last year when Clarkson was up for renewal.
Malcolm blight was sacked when he was 'rebuilding' too.
Mathews job is much safer than Clarkson or Wallace.
You are a true idiot for placing him in the poll.
I rekon Dean Laidly is under the most pressure of all those coaches.
Pagen is just expected to finish last again so there is no pressure there.
Thompson would be the other one but i have a little feeling the cats might bounce back a bit this year and just sneak into the 8 and if not the will just miss out finishing 9th.
Wouldn't be surprised... :(
Jimthegreat
14 Jan 2007, 07:05
That is a bit harsh on Denis IMO. True, the statistics don't lie, and he's had a shocking win-loss record at Carlton, but just look at what he's had to work with. IIRC he arrived at the club just when the AFL stung you with all those draft penalties, etc, and he had to basically build a team by trading for a lot of hacks. In that regard to do what he did in 2003 or 2004 and win 10 games for the season was a marvellous effort.
I think Denis's problem is that he came from such a successful stint at the Kangaroos that people just assumed that he'd achieve the same thing at Carlton. I wonder if it was an untried coach who took over when Pagan did with the same list and achieved the same win/loss ratio whether or not the same number of knives would be trying to find their way into his back.
Not hard at all. He's been one of the poorest to coach this club. Even in the draft penalty years we still got Simmo, Fisher, Walker and Stevens. That would've been a winner for most clubs. We have 4 AA's in our team (Fev, Whitnall, Lappin & Kouta, who's near the end admittedly), including the Coleman Medalist as well as a player who's played 2 GF's for the Pies (Scotland), another who would've played in a Premiership in 2004 (Stevens), As well as Walker, Simmo, Murphy, Houlihan, Thornton (must have ok to go to such lengths to keep him), Waite, Fisher, French (who I admit is more solid than great but certainly pretty reasonable) as well as up and coming players such as Blackwell, Bentick, Betts and O'hailpain (he come on late in the season admittedly). While it's not a premiership standard team by any means, if you can't get more than 7 wins in 2 years out of that lot you are really struggling.
Then there's the 15 x 90 point defeats during his tenure, including quite a few record 100+ defeats, a ratio of less than 1 in 4 games of 10 goal+ defeats, a 23% winning record (21 wins from 88 matches, and that becomes 16% if you take away the 10 wins of 2004.....11 from 66). Not to mention back to back spoons. That's an indictment given the above players on the list. The list excuse is bullsh1t, a myth. No man management skills, completely lost on a game plan, lost 2 different groups of players (pre-post 2004). He's been a disaster for our club. What he did in the 90's is irrelevant to us now. Sadly as time has passed him right by.
When your in a situation where the Board doesn't want you, the players can't stand you and ex-players are willing to dip into their own pockets to get rid of you I think it tells you something. We're 7 wins worse off than 2004 but currently we have alot better list. I don't think an untried coach wouldn't have to had worked too hard to beat that, and they would've come alot cheaper. At worst they couldn't have done worse.
The link below sums it up. And Cory's not the only ex-players to make such comments.
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14172
So, no, I'm not being harsh. What do you think? Do you think they are playing to their potential with the lack of effort, will and committment displayed out there? Doesn't seem so to me.
Jimthegreat
14 Jan 2007, 07:08
Wallace, Clarkson should be in this poll waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of leigh mathews.
Mathews is one of the best coaches ever.
Wallace and Clarkson have achieved nothing. Considering Wallace has been coaching for many years it shows your bias not to place him in the poll because you know he might win and it would embarrass you and your pathetic little club.Wallace was terrific with what he had at the Bulldogs. Finalists most years, PF twice, and is certainly improving the Tigers. That'll take a little time but they certainly have some respect. He ability to think outside the square is terrific.
Not hard at all. He's been one of the poorest to coach this club. Even in the draft penalty years we still got Simmo, Fisher, Walker and Stevens. That would've been a winner for most clubs. We have 4 AA's in our team (Fev, Whitnall, Lappin & Kouta, who's near the end admittedly), including the Coleman Medalist as well as a player who's played 2 GF's for the Pies (Scotland), another who would've played in a Premiership in 2004 (Stevens), As well as Walker, Simmo, Murphy, Houlihan, Thornton (must have ok to go to such lengths to keep him), Waite, Fisher, French (who I admit is more solid than great but certainly pretty reasonable) as well as up and coming players such as Blackwell, Bentick, Betts and O'hailpain (he come on late in the season admittedly). While it's not a premiership standard team by any means, if you can't get more than 7 wins in 2 years out of that lot you are really struggling.
Then there's the 15 x 90 point defeats during his tenure, including quite a few record 100+ defeats, a ratio of less than 1 in 4 games of 10 goal+ defeats, a 23% winning record (21 wins from 88 matches, and that becomes 16% if you take away the 10 wins of 2004.....11 from 66). Not to mention back to back spoons. That's an indictment given the above players on the list. The list excuse is bullsh1t, a myth. No man management skills, completely lost on a game plan, lost 2 different groups of players (pre-post 2004). He's been a disaster for our club. What he did in the 90's is irrelevant to us now. Sadly as time has passed him right by.
When your in a situation where the Board doesn't want you, the players can't stand you and ex-players are willing to dip into their own pockets to get rid of you I think it tells you something. We're 7 wins worse off than 2004 but currently we have alot better list. I don't think an untried coach wouldn't have to had worked too hard to beat that, and they would've come alot cheaper. At worst they couldn't have done worse.
The link below sums it up. And Cory's not the only ex-players to make such comments.
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14172
So, no, I'm not being harsh. What do you think? Do you think they are playing to their potential with the lack of effort, will and committment displayed out there? Doesn't seem so to me.
I was making an observation from the outside looking in, but after reading that, I'm gonna make a 180 and agree with you. The sooner he's out the better.
Jimthegreat
14 Jan 2007, 08:36
I was making an observation from the outside looking in, but after reading that, I'm gonna make a 180 and agree with you. The sooner he's out the better.
That's fair enough. It's difficult. We look at 15 clubs from the outside looking in. Other than our own club it's sometimes hard to know the situation of others.
Cheers
9th Placed Finish
14 Jan 2007, 12:26
Malcolm blight was sacked when he was 'rebuilding' too.
Mathews job is much safer than Clarkson or Wallace.
You are a true idiot for placing him in the poll.
So you think that coaches like Matthews should never be held accountable for a teams poor performances. Mattews is a great coach no question but what makes him any safer than any other coach in the league. Yes I am aware he won 3 straight flags and went to 4 successive GF's but 3 years later the Lions are a shadow of the team that was so dominant. As I have said repeatedly I am not saying the coaches would get sacked just asking which of them would be under the most pressure considering that 5 of them are entering the final year of their deals. Matthews in all likelihood will be given another 3 years but to say he would not have pressure on him to show improvement on the last 2 years is stupid. The game is about results and if Matthews did not get them then regardless how great the man is under some pressure this year.
So you think that coaches like Matthews should never be held accountable for a teams poor performances. Mattews is a great coach no question but what makes him any safer than any other coach in the league. Yes I am aware he won 3 straight flags and went to 4 successive GF's but 3 years later the Lions are a shadow of the team that was so dominant. As I have said repeatedly I am not saying the coaches would get sacked just asking which of them would be under the most pressure considering that 5 of them are entering the final year of their deals. Matthews in all likelihood will be given another 3 years but to say he would not have pressure on him to show improvement on the last 2 years is stupid. The game is about results and if Matthews did not get them then regardless how great the man is under some pressure this year.
Clarkson and Wallace are under more pressure than Mathews this year.
As I said.
Very bad choice to put Mathews in there. Why don't you start a poll asking who is under more pressure, mathews or wallace;)
9th Placed Finish
14 Jan 2007, 15:22
Clarkson and Wallace are under more pressure than Mathews this year.
As I said.
Very bad choice to put Mathews in there. Why don't you start a poll asking who is under more pressure, mathews or wallace;)
Would be a better poll than Judd vs Jesus, clown.:rolleyes:
DynamoUltra
14 Jan 2007, 15:34
Matthews is under pressure not only because of the on-field failings of his club in 2006, but the perceived lack of support from the players and the off-field troubles. If this continues, why would they keep him?
Here are my rankings for the most under pressure coaches;
1. Pagan - All but gone
2. Laidley - As above
3. Thompson - A poor season and he is gone
4. Sheedy - Will probably retire anyway
5. Daniher - Melbourne will be embracing mediocrity if they keep him and they don't make at least a prelim
6. Matthews - Off-field and on-field troubles need to be rectified
7. Malthouse - In a mini rebuild. Gutsy move to trade Tarrant, meaning they could miss on finals in 2007, but in 2008/9 should be relatively strong contenders.
8. Connolly - Who knows what success is to the Fremantle board?