Which young players do you expect to take the next step this season?

[sainter]

The Wizard Cup and the practice matches are over and it's time to embark on other season.

Our form of late has been average so it's probably best to put it behind us and look forward.

Before the season starts, I was wondering which of our young players do you expect to take the next step and consolidate a position in our best 22 players.

Lenny Hayes is someone who has to step up this season. He has too much talent to simply hold his place in the side. He needs to take his game to a new level. I think he will be one player to have a much better season.

One youngster who has had very little spoken about him but who I believe has a hell of a lot of potential is Chris Oliver. Because of a knee injury he hasn't played too much this season. After watching him play in Ballarat, he is possibly a smokey that has got through everyones guard. He didn't take the game by the scruff of the neck or dominate but the way he moves around the ground and is athleticism is very similar to Riewoldt and Koschitzke. Ever since watching him play for Springvale last year he has reminded me of a young Jeff White and he took a big speccie on Saturday very reminiscent of White. He may take a while to develop as most talls do but my prediction is that Chris has as bright a future as Koschitzke and Riewoldt and the three of them will cause headaches for the rest of the competition for many years to come.

Of our draftees I'm not sure which ones will emerge from the pack and play for the bulk of the season. Houlihan and Montagna may need another year before playing regular senior footy, along with Luke Ball who even without his Xavier committments has admitted his body wouldn't have been ready for the rigours of AFL footy anyway. Nick Dal Santo and Xavier Clarke were the most impressive midfielders while Matt Maguire will probably be given a chance some time throughout the year in a key defensive post.

It's easy to forget that Heath Black is only 22 himself so if he can have a year as good as last year he will slot very nicely into our midfield. I for one hope that Grant Thomas moves him up the ground because he has played in a sweeping role in defensive for most of the preseason.

Cadyn Beetham is much maligned amongst many of our supporters for his poor disposal and perceived laziness. The one thing he does have is natural ability. Let's hope GT and the coaching staff can help him to harness some of that ability.

I could easily have gone through all of our youngsters but I'm sure you all have your own views on who you think will take the next step in 2002.

[Falchoon]

I'll define young as those born in the eighties.

Riewoldt, obviously :rolleyes: looked good in limited time last year but will develop into a key this year. Koschitzke will also develop into a key, look for these two to be right up in the B&F voting and to be leading the club in Brownlow votes, both are very eye catching.

Of the rest Maguire impressed and will get quality game time this year, a semi regular. Unlike others Clarke hasn't impressed me as much yet, needs to find the speed of the game, but hopefully natural talent will shine through (has been very fumbly).
This years other draft picks will take time though.

Baker will be serviceable
Beetham, talent talent talent, needs to think and work
Begley, looks good at times at others is continually 5m behind opponent
Blake, needs to develop peripheral vision, good courage
Davis, I like him never does much wrong
Hayes, all class needs to step up and dominate, is one year younger than Brisbanes Simon Black, needs a similar season to Blacks 2001
Knobel, one outing did not impress, although looked good in intra club
Milne, behind Riewoldt player of the pre-season, should be valuable this year, as he was last year, 27goals in 17 games is probably two goals a game in actual game time. Developing midfield bow to his arsenal.
Moyle, I expect Moyle to develop into one of our best midfielders this year, great with the ball, needs to work harder without it.
Oliver is at least 2 years away
Schwarze ???????
Wulf looks good but needs a position to develop in.

[anchor man]

Can anyone tell me how Dirty Harry is going?

[sainter]

Originally posted by Falchoon
Baker will be serviceable
Beetham, talent talent talent, needs to think and work
Begley, looks good at times at others is continually 5m behind opponent
Blake, needs to develop peripheral vision, good courage
Davis, I like him never does much wrong
Hayes, all class needs to step up and dominate, is one year younger than Brisbanes Simon Black, needs a similar season to Blacks 2001
Knobel, one outing did not impress, although looked good in intra club
Milne, behind Riewoldt player of the pre-season, should be valuable this year, as he was last year, 27goals in 17 games is probably two goals a game in actual game time. Developing midfield bow to his arsenal.
Moyle, I expect Moyle to develop into one of our best midfielders this year, great with the ball, needs to work harder without it.
Oliver is at least 2 years away
Schwarze ???????
Wulf looks good but needs a position to develop in.

Good job Falchoon,

You've inspired me to speak about all of them

- Baker will play as not only a tagger, but someone that can win the ball out of the middle in his own right. Having said that does anyone know if he was injured or played for Springvale last weekend? His aggression in the middle is much needed.

- Begley is an interesting one. He's one of those players that most saints fans rate very highly yet hasn't really seemed to go forward. (Much like the team sadly)

- Spot on with Blake. There seems to be far too big a gap between his best and worst footy but the ability and endeavour is there.

- Davis may not do a lot wrong but he just doesn't do enough. His pace is questionable. I was impressed with his final quarter against Collingwood. He's a good kick for goal and needs to take advantage of all his chances. Last chance this year.

- I agree with your thoughts on Knobel. At 21 years of age, with his height and weight and only about 5 years of Aussie Rules experience, definitely something to work with

- As the Milne fanatic I'm not sure I can be too objective with my thoughts. :) Seriously it will be great for his footy to move into the midfield. Two silly mistakes in the last quarter in front of goal against Collingwood may have been his way of telling Thommo he's a midfielder now. :O

- Moyle has been surprisingly disappointing this preseason. I doubt it's much of a concern, he's a ball magnet and if he can continue on developing his game like he has in 2000 and 2001 he will become a key midfielder.

- Schwarze may become the saints supporters whipping boy. I was pleased the way he stuck to his guns against Cummings, there was a huge weight difference between the two and he never gave up. Definitely not a key defender but has pace and athleticism and could be used as a 3rd tall defender. Last chance.

- Agree with your thoughts on Wulf as well. He could become an excitement machine if given a chance in a specific position. Some of the things he did in the VFL in 2000 can't be done by many senior players.

[sainter]

Originally posted by anchor man
Can anyone tell me how Dirty Harry is going?

He's had an injury interrupted preseason recovering from a shoulder operation but played in our practice match against Collingwood. He'll be pushing for a spot against Carlton on Saturday week.

I love his aggression and attack on the ball. Wish we could see it in a few more of our players.

[Savatage]

I guess a personal quick overview.

Heath Black- needs time to settle in a position, will be good.
Lenny Hayes- never been capable of putting it together for a whole game, he needs to shift up a gear in a hurry.
Nick Riewoldt- last year didn't impress me, so far this year has probably been our best player. One grab player.
Luke Ball- I guess 2003 will give us a real indication.
Chad Davis- seems to need a kick up the arse to get going, once he gets going he generally plays well. Needs a big year or gone.
Xavier Clarke- looked impressive in the intra club for a half, since then has found the pace of the game way too quick. Needs time to adjust from NT league to the AFL & that can only be done in the VFL first up.
Caydn Beetham- a real disappointment. Verging on overrated dud. Harsh? Perhaps, but I have seen every game this year & he's been absolute attrocious. Needs a huge kick up the arse.
James Begley- no confidence, needs to play for Springvale & well to secure a spot in the senior team. Will need to impress from this point forward.
Justin Koschitzke- all we can hope for is a continued development from his 2001 form, an absolute revelation.
Chris Oliver- Big wrap for Chris Oliver, needs a little more football education but has the athleticism & talent to make it in the AFL.
Nick Dal Santo- will be a very good player. Really disappointed that the club hasn't played him more than the last 5 minutes of a pre-season game. The definition of skill.
Jason Blake- last month has been terrible. Needs to find his position.
Leigh Montagna- quick, skilful, just needs to put on weight before making an impact on a wing.
Steven Baker- skills are suspect, but has huge heart & work ethic. Really developed in 2001, should continue to step up. Sainter, he was injured last week.
Daniel Wulf- a HUGE fan of Wulf. The match committee don't show enough faith in this guy. He's quick, fantastic skills, huge leap & hard to match up on. GIVE HIM A PROPER GO.
Matthew Maguire- still learning, but have been very impressed. Will be an AFL player.
Josh Houlihan- haven't seen enough of him to really comment.
Trent Knobel- an awkward mover, however has been dominant in the centre square in previous games. Has a bit to learn about the game, but may be handy.
Troy Schwarze- will he be an AFL player??? The question will hopefully be answered this year.
Brett Moyle- average pre-season. Hopefully will kick into gear when the season proper starts.
Stephen Milne- first half of preseason games was our best player, last couple has featured amongst our worst. Plays on instinct, sometimes his instinct radar goes crazy.

An Interesting mix of kids. Some cause for optimism, some cause for concern. However pre-season form means JACK****- so lest we reserve judment until weeks into the season!

[Vaul Darkhour]

guys.. you gotta remember that some of our young players actually need some good form.. and this comes from playing together as a team ... etc.. i think the whole 'when the team gets it's act together, we'll see the good, the bad and the tim elliot'!..

:D :D

[anchor man]

Originally posted by sainter


He's had an injury interrupted preseason recovering from a shoulder operation but played in our practice match against Collingwood. He'll be pushing for a spot against Carlton on Saturday week.

I love his aggression and attack on the ball. Wish we could see it in a few more of our players.
I hope both Harry and Heath Black have good seasons for you.Harry is a bit of a problem though with injuries,that is one of the reasons he was traded by the Dockers.Black is a good player, we at the Dockers never saw the best of him.
I think the Saints are in for as long a season as we had last year.Spider will be a huge loss for you.

[sainter]

Originally posted by anchor man

I hope both Harry and Heath Black have good seasons for you.Harry is a bit of a problem though with injuries,that is one of the reasons he was traded by the Dockers.Black is a good player, we at the Dockers never saw the best of him.
I think the Saints are in for as long a season as we had last year.Spider will be a huge loss for you.

Apparently Callaghan was also disenchanted about not being able to get a game when he was fit. Not sure why Drum didn't play him, I thought he was better than quite a few of the players chosen before him.

Heath Black was a huge coup for us. He might take a while to settle into the team and find his niche in the side like Gehrig and Hamill did initially but he'll prove to be a great player for the club.

I'm not sure what to expect this season. It may take a while for the young players to develop but if we can have a more fortunate season with injuries and get some solid improvement from the bulk of the squad we'll surprise a few people. Spider will be back around rounds 6-8, he's lucky it wasn't as serious as many knee injuries end up being.

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

the draftees:-

- ball, he is rated higher than chris judd which augers well when you consider how impressive judd has been for west coast. i think he will be given a couple of senior games at some time this year for the experience.

- clarke, had a fantastic first 1/2 in the intra club at moorabbin but has seemed nervous or overawed in the wizard cup games and fumbled a fair bit. i still like the look of him though and once he gets the pace of the game he should develop into a good player. will play senior football this year.

- dal santo, very slight build but looks to have the skills required to be a player. my brother in law knows the dal santo family in bendigo (the whole family are talented sports people apparently) and was telling me that apart from his talent that he is an extremely disciplined and focussed young man. whilst his friends went out drinking and celebrating he would refrain and go home to give himself every chance to become an afl footballer. he was hoping to go to the hawks but was happy to be picked up by any of the melbourne based sides. maybe when our officials said that they drafted players that displayed good character as well as skills they might actually be telling the truth. :D

- matt maguire showed glimpses of knowing where the ball was and looked promising for a 17 year old. i expect he will play senior football early in the season.

- montagna and our hooligan will probably spend the year developing in the springvale side. with bomba sheldon as the coach i am sure they will be given every chance in the springy seniors and not the reserves like the disgraceful situation that occurred last year.

the players that have been at the club that i believe will 'step up' this year are:-

- reiwoldt, could not have been more impressed with his pre season form. hopefully he will give the club back to back rising star awards. him and kossi are the cream of the crop and i will cross my fingers and hope like hell that they can be the foundation stones to build our future success. other young players will step up if they see that these two young men can take games by the scruff of the neck.

- hayes, he has to be more consistent over 4 quarters but has the talent to make an impact in our midfield and switch to the forward line.

- beetham, is now in his 3rd year at the club and has shown enough in the previous 2 years to suggest that this could be the year where he consolidates as a consistent player. our supporters have been harsh on this kid because of his lapses in concentration which contribute to skill errors but he can be explosive when he gets the ball and should be given the chance to be an integral part of the midfield rotation.

- moyle, has shown improvement for the last couple of years and the difference between him and players such as begley, blake and davis is that he gets the ball. the other 3 and troy shcwarze are on their last chance and will have to show a bit to stay on the list.

- baker, is another player that has improved every year he has been at the club. he is not a pretty footballer but he is tough, determined and tenacious, i like his grit and think that he can continue to improve.

- milne, is a hit and miss player that can win you games on his good days and go missing others. he was good at times in the midfield this pre season but i think he should be left as the dangerous small forward that we saw last year.

- oliver, liked what i saw of him for springvale last year. has a tremendous leap in the ruck but didn't show much when he was promoted to the seniors albeit in difficult circumstances. i would prefer to give oliver a run in the ruck than trent knobel.

- wulf, he has shown glimpses of talent in games last year and should be given a chance on the wing or across 1/2 forward.

with everitt out capuano has to stand up in the ruck, and if he doesn't we should get rid of him and that includes if he is injured during everitts absence. he was recruited to be the 2nd ruckman and if he can't fulfill those obligations successfully then show him the door.

- black, should be a good addition to the side.

what we really need is for all these players to play and develop together. if at the selection table there is a 50/50 between a senior player or a young player then we should pick the young player regardless of who we are playing or how important the game might be. we have to play these young blokes at every opportunity to give them a chance to gel into a team.

it won't be the end of the world if we lose on saturday as we should be taking a longer term view but a win against that old and slow blues outfit will be just the tonic that these players need to start to gather some confidence. it will also give some serious bragging rights to yours truly, which i will gleefully use to cut down some of those arrogant carlton pricks that i know.;) :D

go saints. :D :D

[sammm]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty
the draftees:-


it won't be the end of the world if we lose on saturday as we should be taking a longer term view but a win against that old and slow blues outfit will be just the tonic that these players need to start to gather some confidence. it will also give some serious bragging rights to yours truly, which i will gleefully use to cut down some of those arrogant carlton pricks that i know.;) :D

go saints. :D :D

i would like to think we could win, but now with everitt, gherig, and kosi out this and maybe next week, i somehow doubt it. it would 've been better if mckeron and witnall could not make it to round 1!!

oh well we can always hope!!!

what do you think?

[Savatage]

Josh Dicketts
Troy Schwarze

[Savatage]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty
i would prefer to give oliver a run in the ruck than trent knobel.



Agreed.

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

Originally posted by sammm


i would like to think we could win, but now with everitt, gherig, and kosi out this and maybe next week, i somehow doubt it. it would 've been better if mckeron and witnall could not make it to round 1!!

oh well we can always hope!!!

what do you think?

sammm,

last year we used the excuse of injuries for all our on field woes and whilst they did contribute, on reflection it was just another excuse to explain away poor losses. i can take a loss if i know the team has gone down fighting and given it everything they have, i don't believe that is what we got last year. there is no disgrace in being beaten and outclassed by a better team however when our side is good enough to get 6 goals in front at 1/2 time or 3/4 time and lose the game then that is simply a disgrace and should not be tolerated by any of us.

this week against carlton we will go into the game without a few of our better players but if the team are committed and work for each other for the whole 4 quarters then we are capable of winning.

it is a disgrace that i can't remember the last time our side had a good fighting win slightly against the odds. :mad: it is now time for this team to show some mental toughness and some spirit. i am sick of all the rhetoric and encouraging words and the positive spin doctoring from the club. i wan't positive actions not words, i want discipline and fight not mentally weak surrender when it gets a bit tough, i want wins, not excuses.

i will be dissappointed if we lose but have gone down fighting. i will be fu*king furious if we simply capitulate weakly.

i am sick of following a team that is the laughing stock of the competition. give me some solid development from our youngsters along with an obvious gameplan carried out by a committed and determined team and i'm sure some wins will follow. then i will be happy.

all the talk is over and the season is finally upon us. :D :D

GO YOU SAINTERS. :D :D

[sammm]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty


sammm,

last year we used the excuse of injuries for all our on field woes and whilst they did contribute, on reflection it was just another excuse to explain away poor losses. i can take a loss if i know the team has gone down fighting and given it everything they have, i don't believe that is what we got last year. there is no disgrace in being beaten and outclassed by a better team however when our side is good enough to get 6 goals in front at 1/2 time or 3/4 time and lose the game then that is simply a disgrace and should not be tolerated by any of us.

this week against carlton we will go into the game without a few of our better players but if the team are committed and work for each other for the whole 4 quarters then we are capable of winning.

it is a disgrace that i can't remember the last time our side had a good fighting win slightly against the odds. :mad: it is now time for this team to show some mental toughness and some spirit. i am sick of all the rhetoric and encouraging words and the positive spin doctoring from the club. i wan't positive actions not words, i want discipline and fight not mentally weak surrender when it gets a bit tough, i want wins, not excuses.

i will be dissappointed if we lose but have gone down fighting. i will be fu*king furious if we simply capitulate weakly.

i am sick of following a team that is the laughing stock of the competition. give me some solid development from our youngsters along with an obvious gameplan carried out by a committed and determined team and i'm sure some wins will follow. then i will be happy.

all the talk is over and the season is finally upon us. :D :D

GO YOU SAINTERS. :D :D

maybe you should send this to the club,

i totally agree wtih you. i am tired of them not trying!!!!

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty




it is a disgrace that i can't remember the last time our side had a good fighting win slightly against the odds. :mad: GO YOU SAINTERS. :D :D


That is a disgrace that you can't remember :p :eek: :rolleyes:

The last one I remember was the last game of AFL we played, and to think I wasn't going to go, it was sensational.

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

Originally posted by Falchoon


That is a disgrace that you can't remember :p :eek: :rolleyes:

The last one I remember was the last game of AFL we played, and to think I wasn't going to go, it was sensational.

to much alcohol over the summer. ;)

that win had the gloss taken off it 2 weeks later when boof head hall decided to leave the club, everitt and jones were going and the media were highlighting the charade of the thomas appointment. i have consigned everything from that season (and many others) to that deep dark place in my memory that some shrink will discover in a few years time and come up with a new diagnosis, saints_supporter_sendya_insania.

i did have a good night on the night though after 10 minutes of maniacal jumping around. :D :D

[karnaby]

Thanks people, there are some good forthright assessments of the younger players amongst that lot.

stl, I have to congratulate you on a couple of great sentences:


"it is now time for this team to show some mental toughness and some spirit. i am sick of all the rhetoric and encouraging words and the positive spin doctoring from the club. i wan't positive actions not words, i want discipline and fight not mentally weak surrender when it gets a bit tough, i want wins, not excuses.

i will be dissappointed if we lose but have gone down fighting. i will be fu*king furious if we simply capitulate weakly.

i am sick of following a team that is the laughing stock of the competition. give me some solid development from our youngsters along with an obvious gameplan carried out by a committed and determined team and i'm sure some wins will follow. then i will be happy."


This does a pretty good job of summing up how I feel about our situation. Excuses went out the door some time ago now, & while I'm sadly prepared to be somewhat patient, I'm not in the least bit interested in putting up with sub-standard efforts.

Re the youngsters, Chris Oliver started the game over here against the weagles at full-forward(ish) & earnt a couple of good chances for goal which he squandered, it was only fleeting but he looked fine. We can only hope he continues to improve to help shoulder the load that is going to be thrust on Kosi & Nick.

If there's one other thing that I want it's to be able to say at the end of the year that half a dozen or so (how greedy am I allowed to be?) young blokes really took some steps forward & showed significant development over the season.

[Oh When the Saints]

Bump.

Nice to read some of the predictions and see how they came true.

[Oh When the Saints]

Lenny Hayes- never been capable of putting it together for a whole game, he needs to shift up a gear in a hurry.

I guess he managed that :p

Nick Riewoldt- last year didn't impress me, so far this year has probably been our best player. One grab player.

Improvement? :D

Leigh Montagna- quick, skilful, just needs to put on weight before making an impact on a wing.

Spot on. :thumbsu:

Steven Baker- skills are suspect, but has huge heart & work ethic. Really developed in 2001, should continue to step up. Sainter, he was injured last week.

Certainly stepped up ...

[ChrisFooty]

Brett Moyle used to be one of my favs at the Saints. He came off the rookie list, i remember, and played a beauty of a first game (against the lions???)

One thing i loved about this guy was he found the footy. I guess the pace of the game, along with an injury or two, was the main reason why he didn't developed into a 200 game player. I'm a big believer that if Mark Mcgough debut in 1985, he would of been a star. The game has become a lot quicker.

Beetham was a sad story (giving the game away quite young)