View Full Version : Where to now for the Fitzroy Football Club?
Roylion
12 Feb 2001, 09:44
I posted the following on the Brisbane Board a couple of days ago, to see whether any Roys who now follow the Brisbane Lions would be interested in making a comment about a serious football topic, that has a bearing on their club. However it appears that the Brisbane posters were more interested in talking about how they were going to beat the number of posts that the Kangaroo board currently have. The lack of response also appears to indicate little interest in Fitzroy or its current doings by Brisbane fans and maybe strengthens the case for a seperate Fitzroy board on Big Footy, where these sort of things can be discussed.
Anyway I'd be interested in Fitzroy people's views on the following. I hope to give some feedback from supporters to a couple of the directors of the FFC that I have regular contact with, as to what FFC should / could be doing in the future. If there is little to no response here (and I know there are few old Fitzroy supporters who read these boards) and who perhaps don't read the Brisbane Board, well that also says something about the FFC's future.
Where to now for the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd? The latest disappointing news is that apparently is the City of Yarra, in response to a Victorian State Government decision to cap the number of poker machines in the state has refused the Fitzroy Football Club’s application to manage pokies in their intended social club at Rising Sun Hotel. Rather than appeal the decision which could take two-three years to resolve, the FFC Ltd., has decided not to pursue the Rising Sun as an option for a social club. This is a bitter blow for the many people that support the Fitzroy Football Club.
An U/19 team which was intended to be run by the FFC Ltd., for the 2001 season has also not come to fruition at least for this year.
Apparently Fitzroy and Tasmania were talking about the possibility of aligning to place a team in the VFL. Despite being approached by Tasmania originally, the FFC board asked for the proposal in writing and received no further response. According to one Fitzroy director I know, the proposal had “cold water” (his words) poured over it, not by Tasmania, but by the VFL itself. Tasmania not wishing to jeopardise it’s entry into the VFL therefore dropped the proposal.
Preston and Fitzroy have also been talking, but while Preston are keen to have Fitzroy’s money and members (well over 1,000) they aren’t, according to my information, prepared to give enough guarantees about Fitzroy’s identity or corporate independence or enough representation on their board.
The question therefore is what should the FFC Ltd do in the future? On the face of it, it would seem that the board of FFC Ltd. as the last legally elected board should be the logical body that should manage the growing Victorian arm of the Brisbane Lions. However for various reasons this is very unlikely to occur. As it stands the Fitzroy ‘family’ remains divided. The VFL, who you would think stands most to gain from having at least a couple of thousand Fitzroy diehards attending it's fixtures on a regular basis appears to be deliberatly discouraging a Fitzroy presence and identity in its competition, which quite frankly I find very surprising.
In a way this division may spell the end of both the FFC Ltd. and also any aspirations that the Brisbane Lions have of building Victorian membership much beyond 3,000, even though it is obvious Brisbane’s supporter base in Victoria is much greater than 3,000. The board of the FFC Ltd. are confident that there is a great deal of latent support for ‘Fitzroy’ out there….. up to at least 60,000 Victorians they believe, but there is little for many of them to focus on without a fair-dinkum Fitzroy side, wearing the old guernsey etc. etc. in a senior Victorian or national side. It was hoped that Coburg-Fitzroy would fulfill this role, but this also fell through, for reasons totally beyond Fitzroy’s control.
FFC has three options open to it in the future in my view. It needs to justify its existence as a football club and run one-two-three sides in different competitions. Otherwise it will disappear completely due to lack of interest.
1. Pursue closer relations with the Brisbane Lions (reciprocal) and use those connections to lobby for a position in the VFL as a stand-alone team bearing the name 'Fitzroy', the colours and the emblem. This new club might have close ties with Brisbane in terms of sponsorship, membership etc and might also have FFC acting as the controller of the Victorian arm of the Brisbane Lions.
2. Continue to support the Fitzroy Reds and Fitzroy Juniors only from the Brunswick Street Ground and eventually establish an U/19 team to operate only in the northern suburbs of Melbourne.
3. Continue to seek a completely independent "alignment" with an existing VFL club, or as some continually hope for, a Melbourne based AFL club to get back into senior Victorian football.
Any comments would be welcomed.
Roylion - I did infact read your post - though I am not in a position myself to make comment I don't think. I am however, also intersted in hearing others thoughts on the matter.
Definitely option 2 for me.
If at all possible I'd love to see the Reds become the actual playing team of the Fitzroy FC, rather than just naming sponsor etc etc. The Reds should entail the playing operations of the Fitzroy Football Club. If this happens, we should abandon any other outlet and concentrate on making the Reds a powerful team in the Amateur Leagues. If this entails the Juniors becoming part of the Reds as under-age sides, even better.
Fitzroy should do everything in its power to keep a separate identity going, in fact a stand-alone identity. I have no faith in ANY alliance with anyone after what has happened with Coburg. At least if we solely concentrated on the Reds we would be masters of our own destiny once again.
If however, the Reds want to stay somewhat separate from the FFC, then an u/19's team would be the next best option.
My two cents......
Sorry, posted too early......
Option 1 would be okay, but can we be assured of the Brisbane clubs goodwill and support for an indefinite period. If the Lions got in trouble financially, I'd suspect we'd be the first one's culled.
I can't see why the old Fitzroy supporters don't get behind the Brisbane Lions.You get to see your team live on TV every second week and see them in melbourne most of the other weeks.Why you would follow Fitzroy in some other crappy league is a mystery to me.Fitzroy is gone,not even Coburg wanted you.
Why is the Fitzroy Football club still trading. I thought they went bankrupt.
Why are they trying to become a VFL team again.Trying to undermine the Brisbane Lions ????
What about the Fitzroy clubs outstanding debt they owe the Brisbane Lions.Remember it was the Fitzroy club that owed all those millions.They were articled for bankruptcy .
In good faith I remember reading that the Brisbane club is not persuing that debt.
Fot the life of me I can't see why they are allowed to trade under that name.
Seem to be a lot of troublemakers.Aren't some of their board members from 1996 still on the board of the new Fitzroy club.
Roylion, as you seem to be someone in the know about the inner and outer workings of the merger agreement, I was wondering about your thoughts on the following.
The actual legal option for Fitzroy to field a stand alone team.....
Surely they couldn't call them the "Fitzroy Lions"?
In most buy-out's, liquidations,sales etc of businesses, there seems to be a 'non competition' clause of something of the like. In this case that would mean that the current legal entity of Fitzroy FC that is still around, would not be able to field a football team using that name. And possibly, depending on the terms, not be able to field a team at all -even tho it would not be in direct competition to the Brisbane Lions, it would still be 'football', as opposed to them starting a business and calling it Fitzroy Lions Paper, and them making envelopes or something as equally non-football related.
The wearing of the Jumper would then become another issue with any aligned football team they may become part of. I believe that the Brisbane Lions gave permission for Coburg-Fitzroy to wear the Fitzroy jumper last year. There is definately no guarantee that they will do that again, and I suppose that once again puts it on the Brisbane Lions to decide what more to give back to the Fitzroy community, even if it is not in their (Brisbane Lions) own best interest (ie something they would not benefit directly from).
Originally posted by Slore:
Fitzroy should do everything in its power to keep a separate identity going, in fact a stand-alone identity. I have no faith in ANY alliance with anyone after what has happened with Coburg. At least if we solely concentrated on the Reds we would be masters of our own destiny once again.
If Fitzroy can not field a team, are not not entitled to use the Fitzroy Lions name, and not the owners of their jumper anymore, do they have a stand-alone identity?
Thoughts?
Originally posted by Carl:
I can't see why the old Fitzroy supporters don't get behind the Brisbane Lions.You get to see your team live on TV every second week and see them in melbourne most of the other weeks.Why you would follow Fitzroy in some other crappy league is a mystery to me.Fitzroy is gone,not even Coburg wanted you.
Some Fitzroy fans do support Brisbane, but probably 65% don't. The reason I'll follow Fitzroy no matter what 'crappy' league we're in is because I have always followed the Fitzroy FC. I do not follow the AFL, without Fitzroy the AFL mean bugger all to me. If you follow the league instead of your club, thats your choice, but do not try to impose what you think on us. And Coburg did want us, they tried to get us in the Richmond deal, but they were speaking from a position of weakness and were in no place to dictate to Richmond.
Originally posted by greeny:
Why is the Fitzroy Football club still trading. I thought they went bankrupt.
Why are they trying to become a VFL team again.Trying to undermine the Brisbane Lions ????
What about the Fitzroy clubs outstanding debt they owe the Brisbane Lions.Remember it was the Fitzroy club that owed all those millions.They were articled for bankruptcy .
In good faith I remember reading that the Brisbane club is not persuing that debt.
Fot the life of me I can't see why they are allowed to trade under that name.
Seem to be a lot of troublemakers.Aren't some of their board members from 1996 still on the board of the new Fitzroy club.
Fitzroy never were liquidated. The Fitzroy FC that exists now is exactly the same one that has always existed. We went into administration and our playing operations were merged with the Brisbane Bears. The club itself came out of administration in late 97 I think. The club held a meeting to ask the members what to do with what existed of the club and it was decided that we should continue as a club. We are not trying to undermine the Brisbane Lions, how could we? What on earth could Fitzroy do to hurt Brisbane.....
Brisbane herself is not claiming the debt back, and has indicated it never will. She could claim it, and kill of Fitzroy once and for all, but Brisbane knows if they did that it would be the absolute end of any chance they had of winning over the majority of Fitzroy fans to support Brisbane as well as whatever league Fitzroy ends up with. Brisbane won't do it, and very wisely too. And how are we Fitzroy Loyalists trouble makers? We want to keep our club alive, thats all. Personally although I have nothing to do with Brisbane I certainly don't ridicule those who do.
And yes, the board of directors is basically the same, because it is the same club...not a new one. All that happened was that we lost our AFL licence, playing operations etc. The club itself lives on.......it still has over 1000 members apparently.
The wearing of the Jumper would then become another issue with any aligned football team they may become part of. I believe that the Brisbane Lions gave permission for Coburg-Fitzroy to wear the Fitzroy jumper last year. There is definately no guarantee that they will do that again, and I suppose that once again puts it on the Brisbane Lions to decide what more to give back to the Fitzroy community, even if it is not in their (Brisbane Lions) own best interest (ie something they would not benefit directly from).
Not really a problem....The Fitzroy FC are still the legal owners of the FFC logo that was on the front of the old guernseys. We could simply place that logo on a red and/or blue strip. I hardly see what Brisbane can do...
I have to ask having read a few Fitzroy threads here......
Why do some Brisbane fans consider Fitzroy's continuing existence a threat to them? It seems to me that Brisbane are a much bigger threat to our future than we could ever be to yours....
lioness
12 Feb 2001, 20:11
My apologies for not responding to your post at the Brisbane board, Roylion. I am interested in the topic, and I like both options, however, I agree with Slore, if Brisbane got in financial strife, there may be no guarantee that a 'Fitzroy' entity would survive, but that's just speculation.
I would support Fitzroy in any capacity, in any league. I was going to join Coburg-Fitzroy this season (last year I was in no financial position to join any club) but as we all know, that's no longer an option. That's my thoughts on the subject. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif
This topic is a perfect example of why we should have a Fitzroy board, so it won't get lost amongst other threads. 6 people emailed Bluey.........guess we need more huh.
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*the one and only lioness*
If they are still the owners of the logo etc - why did they have to ask permission of the Brissy Lions to wear the old strip? I don't understand?
Originally posted by Slore:
Fitzroy never were liquidated. The Fitzroy FC that exists now is exactly the same one that has always existed. We went into administration and our playing operations were merged with the Brisbane Bears. The club itself came out of administration in late 97 I think. The club held a meeting to ask the members what to do with what existed of the club and it was decided that we should continue as a club. We are not trying to undermine the Brisbane Lions, how could we? What on earth could Fitzroy do to hurt Brisbane.....
Brisbane herself is not claiming the debt back, and has indicated it never will. She could claim it, and kill of Fitzroy once and for all, but Brisbane knows if they did that it would be the absolute end of any chance they had of winning over the majority of Fitzroy fans to support Brisbane as well as whatever league Fitzroy ends up with. Brisbane won't do it, and very wisely too. And how are we Fitzroy Loyalists trouble makers? We want to keep our club alive, thats all. Personally although I have nothing to do with Brisbane I certainly don't ridicule those who do.
And yes, the board of directors is basically the same, because it is the same club...not a new one. All that happened was that we lost our AFL licence, playing operations etc. The club itself lives on.......it still has over 1000 members apparently.
My understanding is not that Brisbane will never pursue that debt - but that the reason they haven't pursued the debt is due to 'good faith' - ie 'not to kick someone when they are down' - the financial situation of the legal entity of the current FFC. If the pokie venture had gone ahead, and started making the bucks - could you realisticly see the Brissy Lions sitting back and saying "let em have their money"? Especially after their undertaking to pay certain debts out of the merger money from the AFL, ended up costing them alot more than was orignally admitted to (as in the amount of $$ it would take to clear certain debts)??
And as one of the financial members of the '1000' members of the FFC, I do want to know, has it ever occured to you, or your fellow members, to ask that that membership money be used to repay some of that extra debt? to clear the slate, as it may be? to put yourselves in a position where you don't owe anyone?
If not, why not?
These are genuine questions, I am not having a go at 'Fitzroy'.
[This message has been edited by Danni (edited 12 February 2001).]
Sorry - I forgot a question in that:
If they are not 'allowed' to wear the jumper, or a combination of the colours and logo (which could be highly likely if that sort of clause was included) and they are not allowed to call themselves the 'Fitzroy Lions', what is it that would be the 'stand alone identity' of them being the Fitzroy that you all remember?
What determines if the club exists? Nickname....the name Lions is superflous to me and I suspect many fans, especially old time; actually the name is relatively recent in Fitzroy Histroy dating only from the late 1950's. In fact after we turned to the Lions we became rubbish!! The only name that matters is Fitzroy, fullstop.
As to the strip, I'm not sure but I'd suspect Brisbane has the rights to the design but the FFC logo is Fitzroy's alone, in fact if Brisbane used it they'd be in trouble I'd suspect :-)
As to paying our membership money, why not use the Brisbane Lions Melbourne Membership for that, or indeed the proceeds from the Manningham........after all we're part of the same family aren't we? (Well thats what we are told ad nauseam by some) Brisbane knew EXACTLY what they were getting when they merged, if you inherited unknown crippling debts like we did with Coburg then gripe about it I'd say.
As long as Fitzroy Football Club exists, as it has always existed, I don't really care about the little things. And I don't hate Brisbane at all, I've been to a few of their Melbourne games, but I'm too loyal to the Fitzroy club for my own good I suspect.
BTW if Brisbane did kill off the Fitzroy FC, fine. But eventually some of us would probably reform, name a club Fitzroy Social Club FC (which Brisbane cannot touch) or something, maybe even the Reds would keep the name Fitzroy, and play in social leagues. We're a hardy bunch, look at what has been thrown at us, and certain Brisbane fans still seem to fear us. (God knows why.....)
Conversely the Brisbane Lions would destroy their Melbourne Membership hopes forever. They'd probably lose a few current Melbourne members and the propaganda value to the anti-Brisbane faction would be absolutely enormous. Imagine how they could exploit it....."See how much Brisbane love the Fitzroy connection, they destroyed the club entirely for the sake of a unpayable debt. They couldn't even leave us the littlest part of our club, and If they are for us imagine if they were against us, etc etc etc"...... How much money could Brisbane potentially lose in the long term if they killed Fitzroy for the sake of a few million dollars we could never pay? We really have nothing to lose, but Brisbane does. Thats why they'll never touch us. But don't get me wrong, if Fitzroy got into the money someday of course we should pay the debt off........
Slore - what planet are you from???
Can you please now go back and answer my genuine questions? not just rehash your propoganda??
How about I give you a template - to try and help me understand....which is why I asked the questions in the first place! :
1)The logo/ jumper jumper - here is the legal position of that as far as I am aware.......
2) I am/am-not aware of the extra debts that were undisclosed or not correctly reported at the time of the merger. The Brisbane Lions payed the extra money rather than cause extra insolvency problems for FFC, this did also benefit the Brisbane Lions (ie they were then able to trade under the merger conditions that they paid all the debts nominated in the merger agreement)....this is my position on what should happen with that extra debt should the legal entity of the FFC become financial viable (including our membership money).....
3)The one major thing that has been repeated time and again is that the Fitzroy community would only associate the name Lions with 'Fitzroy' and more times than not - the issue of wearing of the Fitzroy jumper - that would then give them back something that they have 'lost'. This is how the wearing or not legally being able to wear the jumper would help/perpetuate/affect the support of the identity of a club called 'Fitzroy' in another league....
And as for 'getting the debt repayed out of the manningham or the melbourne membership money' - what a crock - this is one time where I do now lose my cool - Ask the ppl who are now dedicated to the new club to repay the debts of the old?? The ppl that poured their money into the old - only to see them fold (as such)???
As you would have seen my comments stated that HAD the pokie venture gone ahead, and then HAD that same venture MADE THE BUCKS, that the extra debt would have been a topic to have been raised. I never at any time suggested that the Brisbane Lions go out now and bury what is left of Fitzroy.......
For crying out loud - you claim that Brisbane supporters FEAR Fitzroy......yet you at the same time - get defensive and won't help the rest of us learn or understand the feelings and thoughts of the 'other camp'......
You can't have it both ways......
You want us to understand and appreciate and acknowledge?? Then give us the info so we can.
[This message has been edited by Danni (edited 12 February 2001).]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Danni:
1)The logo/ jumper jumper - here is the legal position of that as far as I am aware.......
Can you read.....Guernsey...don't know
FFC logo is ours. Full Stop. Finit...get it?
2) I am/am-not aware of the extra debts that were undisclosed or not correctly reported at the time of the merger. The Brisbane Lions payed the extra money rather than cause extra insolvency problems for FFC, this did also benefit the Brisbane Lions (ie they were then able to trade under the merger conditions that they paid all the debts nominated in the merger agreement)....this is my position on what should happen with that extra debt should the legal entity of the FFC become financial viable (including our membership money).....
Pay it back, but not until we can.....again did I not state this.
3)The one major thing that has been repeated time and again is that the Fitzroy community would only associate the name Lions with 'Fitzroy' and more times than not - the issue of wearing of the Fitzroy jumper - that would then give them back something that they have 'lost'. This is how the wearing or not legally being able to wear the jumper would help/perpetuate/affect the support of the identity of a club called 'Fitzroy' in another league....
No...again read my comment instead of calling it propaganda. The name Fitzroy is the most important..why do you think so many fans preferred a North merger, the name Fitzroy was going to be included...
and the FFC logo is ours.....you have no rights to it therefore I consider the wearing of the old Fitzroy strip by Brisbane a dead issue
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Danni:
[B]And as for 'getting the debt repayed out of the manningham or the melbourne membership money' - what a crock -
of course it is...heard of irony? Fitzroy fans are famous for it.
this is one time where I do now lose my cool - Ask the ppl who are now dedicated to the new club to repay the debts of the old?? The ppl that poured their money into the old - only to see them fold (as such)???
re: above. Of course Brisbane shouldn't pay the debt, but then again we shouldn't pay our $15.00 per annum to give to you.
As you would have seen my comments stated that HAD the pokie venture gone ahead, and then HAD that same venture MADE THE BUCKS, that the extra debt would have been a topic to have been raised. I never at any time suggested that the Brisbane Lions go out now and bury what is left of Fitzroy.......
And I was stating the reasons why they wouldn't regardless.
For crying out loud - you claim that Brisbane supporters FEAR Fitzroy......
You do. Why on earth does a Brisbane based Lions fan have any concern on what goes on in Melbourne Amateur Football. It has nothing to do with you. Get this through your heard...Brisbane are not Fitzroy. You do not own us, you are not our lords and masters and your club should only concern itself with Brisbane. Stay out of Fitzroy FC affairs. You even lobby for not allowing us a Fitzroy board here? Why..........
yet you at the same time - get defensive and won't help the rest of us learn or understand the feelings and thoughts of the 'other camp'......
You have no interest in what Fitzroy FC loyalists think. You even referred to Fitzroy in 'quotes' did you not, implying that we are somehow not Fitzroy.
You can't have it both ways......
Lost you now........
You want us to understand and appreciate and acknowledge?? Then give us the info so we can.
No....want non-Fitzroy fans to mind their own affairs and clubs and stay out of ours. Again certain Brisbane fans seem to think they have a god-given right to put their noses into Fitzroys affairs because in 1996 we were forced to merge our playing operations with you. And you keep saying regarding the merger "Get Over it" do you not? Well, we're bloody well trying but others seem intent on having their agendas heard when they are not requested or wanted.
Slore - I am asking you to back up those statements of yours with evidendence....so that I can understand where you are coming from....Why are you so objective to that situation?
The ownership of the logo - can you please tell me where that is stipulated? my original post was to roylion, who I thought might know - but you have taken it upon yourself to answer that one - so can you please tell me where the ownership of that logo is stipulated.
If the logo IS owned by FFC - why is the GUERNSEY of the last FFC not owned by the current FFC legal entity (as you would assume it may be) or if it is why do they need to ask permission from the BL to use it? And as for the wearing of it by the BL being a dead issue - I have never suggested that they should - so why was it ever alive in your mind anyway?
A 'north' merger including the name Fitzroy?? To be honest that is the first time I have ever heard that.....
btw I do take it hat you are aware that the Brisbane Lions is only a name used to describe the team? The Club's actual name is Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club.
Why are you being so defensive to my questions? Do you want me to believe that Fitzroy supporters are all unreasonable? Cause you ain't succeeding in that - I have the fortunance of knowing a few - and they are great and reasonable ppl - we may not agree 100% all the time - but we also ALL take the time to understand where the other is coming from.
Slore I do have a right to understand/learn and appreciate Fitzroy History.....it is part of the History of my CLUB......whether you like it - or more than obviously - don't like it........
You seem to be one that will never understand let alone acknowledge what it was like for us as Bears supporters to lose our team/club/history (however breif it was) too.......you are all too consumed in your own pain/ego/want/obsession to be human enough to recognise what went on for the rest of us....
I am making the best of it, and part of that is learning of our 'parentage' as such....if you don't like that....to friggin bad.....it ain't sticking my nose in.....it is part of who my club now are....therefore part of my business as a supporter/member/barracker for my club...
And yes - it is ppl like you making such abject comments that have certainly dissuaded me from endorsing a Fitzroy board on this site....
Olmy - can I being to use my "I told you so" now?........please???
[This message has been edited by Danni (edited 12 February 2001).]
look, you started on the offensive against me first...I only answered the questions and then you came out on the attack. Of course I will retaliate. I'm not going to sit back as you claim I'm on another planet.
FFC Logo: Owned by Fitzroy FC. Well known fact, ask the Club. Read the 'Roy Boy' magazine from a few years ago and it was on the FSG site. As for the strip, I have no idea as I have said. Did I not state that I assume that the Lions have rights to the colours and design.
As to North Melbourne the club was due to be named North Melbourne-Fitzroy or North-Fitzroy. And I know the Lions are called Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy FC Ltd. If they played under that name it might be different for some (Brisbane-Fitzroy), but they don't so.......The fact is that Fitzroy FC still exists, the same ACN number, the same club. Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy is not the same. that clinches it for me. Sorry if you cannot handle it, I have no problems with the Brisbane Lions separate existence, why do you have one with ours?
If you want to celebrate the Lions Fitzroy heritage, fantastic, that is what will get Fitzroy fans interested in Brisbane, but I perceived you as being completely anti-Fitzroy, if I'm wrong I'm sorry. But it is certainly how it appeared to me.
And please don't 'state the told you so'...you cannot antagonise a differing point of view and them claim victimisation when they retaliate using exactly the same methods you did. Six of one.......
and of course I know that it was hard for Bears fans to accept the new club, and I sympathise, but I'm not a Bears fan so i wouldn't get involved in that debate. Have I ever stated anything anti-Brisbane, or just pro-Fitzroy? Why do we have to rehash this every year? Can't we just let live, thats all we want on this side of the fence. And you have me all wrong BTW....I'm not obsessed or egotistical. I just love the club I've always followed and will always follow.
Can I state this again; I really don't care what occurs within the Brisbane Lions. It's not hatred, it's not antagonism, its simply indifference. As I don't care about Richmond, Carlton and Collingwood.
But unfortunately being solely concerned with Fitzroy gets you labelled with some traits........
What is your problem Slore? What is this offensive crapolla? I have stated the whole way thru that these were genuine questions!
How can I be anti Fitzroy when I am stiving to learn more about them???
Who ever said that I have a problem with the existance of the Fitzroy Football Club (with or without the same ACN as they had prior to the merger)?
I am also not aware that it is a 'well known fact' or able to read copies of 'Roy Boy' from 'years ago' or even being in the know of the address off the top of my head or in my browser of the FSG - which I take it means 'Fitzroy Supporters Group'.
How easy would it have been for you to elaborate on the above earlier? Instead of presume that I was on the attack?
I still am not aware that it is common knowledge except for you saying so, or have a copy of the Roy Boy, or have the addy of the FSG in my possession, so how am I to have that info as 'common knowledge', if ppl such as yourself are unwilling to impart that knowledge to those of us that seek it? And also - where do we go to find if that 'common knowledge' is correct knowledge?
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Mobbenfuhrer
13 Feb 2001, 01:36
Option 2.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Mobbenfuhrer
13 Feb 2001, 02:04
... and the debt is more than repaid with supporters, Vic infrastructure, and possibly even the player injection.
If Brisbane Lions absorb Fitzroy, then they should be prepared to take on the debt. If they hadn't gained compensation for this, maybe they should offload all the Roys members, and then claim that they performed no absorption.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Seems like some people are splitting hairs here.
If the Fitzroy Football club still has the same people running it as prior to the merger, and the debt that was disclosed prior to the merger turned out to be millions more , how are they the Fitzroy Football CLub not responsible for their outstanding debts now.
Just because the Brisbane Lions are so called not recalling that debt in good faith.
What a pack of jerks they must be then.Bottom line is they were told one thing by the Fitzroy club, and then another occured.Someone told a pork pie.The new merged club was behind the financial 8 ball from the start.Didn't they go to court in Brisbane and pay another sporting club 1 million for the Lions name, so that they could trade as the Brisbane Lions.
So they are trying to be nice for their Melbourne supporters. Precious lot they must be.What if the club has problems in the future, don't those ex roys reckon that the millions that are owed to the Brisbane Lions may just come in handy to continue operating.
I can tell you other clubs would not be so generous.Could you see a West Coast or an Essendon or Carlton letting this scenerio happen.Fat chance.
gotta tell you also, I am so sick of hearing how badly done by these Fitzroy people are.How bad Brisbane is, blah blah blah.Who gives a fig.
Reading over these posts on this forum on Fitzroy, they seem to be a whinging lot.
Maybe the Doggies supporters are right,the Lions lot are whingers.
magpie_joffa
13 Feb 2001, 04:08
Hey roylion i love your passion for the fitzroy footy club so i just wanna say keep it up dude.Long live the memory of the fitzroy football club.
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There is nothing in life greater,than to be a supporter or our beloved collingwood football club,we must remain united,we must stand tall,we must be prepared to fight for our glorious black and white,for we are THE ENVY OF ALL NATIONS.
OldLion
13 Feb 2001, 07:42
RoyLion,
When in doubt, back to the grassroots. If the community don't want Fitzroy, it won't happen. If they do ( and the evidence in my community is that they do ) then the junior football will expand. The numbers of kids from AusKick alone in the inner suburbs have increased rapidly - maybe people in rennovated terrace houses do have kids ! - and there are a number of teams in the Yarra Valley league that wear the jumper and sing the song ( one U10 team went thru' the season undefeated ). This is goodness, and they play on the Bunswick St. oval - site of those crackly b&w newsreels showing Bunton's footy skills. That's a pretty good start - the whole AFL thing is too fraught.
Originally posted by Slore:
Some Fitzroy fans do support Brisbane, but probably 65% don't. The reason I'll follow Fitzroy no matter what 'crappy' league we're in is because I have always followed the Fitzroy FC. I do not follow the AFL, without Fitzroy the AFL mean bugger all to me[b]...
Sorry to move away from the topic slightly, but this is exactly the reason why the AFL should not allow any of the other existing teams to go under.
------------------
This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.
Originally posted by Danni:
Olmy - can I being to use my "I told you so" now?........please???
[This message has been edited by Danni (edited 12 February 2001).]
Danni - why? Slore hasn't bagged the Brisbane Lions, which is what you were fearing from a Roys board.
Danni - you bought into this argument yourself, and it kinda shits me that you are using this to justify being against a Roys board.
As Slore has said, if people aren't interested in the Roys, then they don't have to concern themselves with our affairs.
Danni, if you didn't like what Slore, or any others have written (and as far as I can see Slore has been reasonable in his discussions - not radical), then you didn't have to bother responding (ala the jibes I made about the Gabba crowd on the Lions forum - which were only a stir, btw).
In any regard, what's the problem with peole having their own say? If you don't like it, you don't even have to reply.
Roylion, I've posted many a topic on this on a few other forums.
As far as I see it, unless the Brisbane Lions and FFC come to terms with each other (somewhat), and try to work together with common goals, then I see the future of the FFC and the Victorian support for the Brisbane Lions as being very short term.
Obviously, these common goals would be based around giving Victorian Lions supporters, and Fitzroy supporters, clubs that they can support. For instance, while the Brisbane Lions offer somewhat of a 'Fitzroy' presence in the AFL, it's hardly enough to keep some of us entertained for a full season. It's essential that clubs like the Reds, Juniors, and hopefully the U/19's, prosper. Even if at a local level, it is still giving Roys fans something to support - something close to their hearts.
The way I see it, for the Brisbane Lions that is, is that they'll either build a substantial support base out of Victoria over a number of years (by doing the 'right' things), or they'll eventually lose all interest from Victorian supporters altogether. Both of these scenarios might be relatively a few years away (perhaps 10 to 15 or so), however, the Brisbane Lions should start doing things now to ensure that a decent support base IS built in Victoria.
IMO, while you'll find a lot of people are passionate about the Brisbane Lions, you'll also find that they haven't forgotten about Fitzroy either. From people I've talked to at VFL, VAFA, and AFL games (including nights at the Manningham), there is generally a concensus that whether people support the Brisbane Lions or not, that they still want to support Fitzroy, or at least, what the club was about, in some way.
Sure, the Brisbane Lions offer some of that, but not all. They never will either - it's something that has to be accepted. However, this doesn't mean that Fitzroy can't be offered elsewhere, as a complementary team/club. Similarly, the Brisbane Lions only real chance of a support base in Victoria is amongst Fitzroy supporters.
Similarly, it's also worth noting that the supposed "anti-Brisbane" element, IMO, is often blown out of proportion. From my experiences, there seem to be a fair few Roys supporters, who aren't members of the Brisbane Lions, but do 'barrack' for the club. Perhaps a closer involvement with Fitzroy and the club's activities, is one way of appealing to these particular Fitzroy supporters.
IMO, if the Brisbane Lions are serious about prospering a support base out of Victoria (and a serious support base at that), then they need to be involved in the grass roots in Victoria.
"What has this got to do with Fitzroy?" I can hear people asking. Well, I believe, that without some form of co-operation, that neither the FFC or the Victorian arm of the Brisbane Lions will prosper.
The latest setback in regards to the Rising Sun Hotel, pretty much puts Fitzroy in a position where it will have to look elsewhere for any significant source of funding.
As far as I know, the Brisbane Lions give a small percentage of financing to the Lion Cubs team in the Qld state leauge. Perhaps the club could consider also giving a small amount of financing to the ventures of the FFC in Victoria. Perhaps it could be a small percentage of the Victorian membership profits (even $1 per membership would be great - especially when you consider we have around 3000 members).
A move such as this would have the effect of not only giving Fitzroy a life-line, but also being a good-will gesture towards the club and its supporters.
For this to happen though, there needs to be some sort of rift-healing. Fitzroy has to be able to offer the Brisbane Lions something for their returned support.
However, as I see it, the prosperity of Fitzroy at local and hopefully, eventually stand-alone VFL level, is the key to the Brisbane Lions having a substantially sized, long-term support base in Victoria.
Carn the Roys! Go Lions!
Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer:
... and the debt is more than repaid with supporters, Vic infrastructure, and possibly even the player injection.
If Brisbane Lions absorb Fitzroy, then they should be prepared to take on the debt. If they hadn't gained compensation for this, maybe they should offload all the Roys members, and then claim that they performed no absorption.
Exactly! After all, the BL's wouldn't have scored $6mil if there hadn't been a merger for them to be created in the first place. The Bears certainly wouldn't have got $6mil had Fitzroy just gone to the wall. Therefore, logically, and ethically, the BL's have already received all the compensation that is needed.
Some people here try to make out that the Bears merged with Fitzroy just to be nice to the Roys fans by keeping some aspects of their club running in the AFL. Err, fuking get with it! The BL's were a financial success from day 1. The Bears took on the merger, knowing full well what it all entailed (and if they didn't, then they shouldn't have been running the club). Regardless, they knew that the merger would be a huge success, financially, for the club. And this has been proven by the Lions financial success over the last 4 years.
After all, without the remaining monies left over from the AFL's compensation (of which there was quite a substantial amount - even though some with deny this), the Brisbane Lions would not be in the good fortune that they are now, with their corporate and social facilities at the Gabba.
While the Brisbane Lions might have some legal claim to the debt that was owed by Fitzroy (I'd have to read the Hore-Lacy book again to find the exact figure) - IMO, it would be ethically wrong to take it to court. After all, they wanted the merger and all it's good-fortune, therefore, they also were prepared to take on the debt, along with the merger monies that were offered as compensation.
BUBBALOUIS
13 Feb 2001, 11:30
I believe the only way you will get a 'Fitzroy' presence in the VFL is with the total support of the Brisbane Lions, in a joint venture, the AFL after finally getting there wish and destroying a Victorian club will not then entertain reviving them even in a token way. Being a hawk fan who has a mate who is Fitzroy through and through, i know the agony you guys have gone through, remember the AFL knocked back many an initiative from Fitzroys board where subsequently they have ok'd for other clubs, such as playing games out of Canberra!! Im glad to say that after a couple of years of denying the existence of the BL, my mate now follows them (although nowhere near as passionately.) But more needs to be done for the Victorian lions so they can feel part of this merger and not merely taken over. However i do feel nothing will ever be done without the cooperation of Brisbane. Good luck guys
Fat Pizza
13 Feb 2001, 11:31
Fitzroy should support the Redz at Brunswick Street.
I'd like to have a social club too, but realistically, I wouldn't go there much. The annual Fitzroy Foundation dinner is probably enough to keep me going. Maybe a couple of drinks at a Fitzroy pub after a Redz game??
I'm not interested in VFL. If Fitzroy had our own team in the VFL, I'm sure I'd be keen, but I can't see that happening. A merged team is not enough to excite me. I went to a couple of Coburg-Fitzroy games, but they didn't feel like my team.
It is similar with Brisbane Lions. There is probably more chance of me following them, than a VFL team, because they are regularly on tv. I don't have to travel to Coburg or Preston or wherever to watch them play. Don't get me wrong - I would have no objection to travelling to watch Fitzroy, but I can't be bothered going out of my way to watch a team I'm only lukewarm about.
I would follow the Lions if they were just called Lions, not Brisbane Lions.
Fat Pizza
13 Feb 2001, 11:51
Now let me comment about that debt Fitzroy owes to Brisbane Lions...
Fitzroy originally owed the money (about $1 million I think) to Nauru, as repayment of a loan.
Brisbane paid Nauru out of the AFL's $6 million merger "carrot" & had money left over. Nauru was paid out, but the debt was then assigned to Brisbane. Therefore Brisbane accepted the AFL's money, used it to pay Nauru & now they are allowed to claim the money a second time - this time from Fitzroy. It doesn't sound morally right to me. My guess is it was designed to stop Fitzroy from rising from the ashes & threatening Brisbane. It probably wasn't needed, but it is working.
Dannii, if you hadn't heard of North offering to keep the Fitzroy name, maybe you should re-read Dyson's book.
Back to Roylion's original topic, another possibility to consider would be a Fitzroy Super-Rules side.
I am with all the Lions fans. When the merger happened I said it was a crying shame and I still feel that way now. I am a hawthorn fan who lives in Qld and I strongly believe the Fitzroy Lions should play in the VFL. The AFL and Brisbane owe it to the club and there passionate supporters.
As for the Brisbane Lions, they are a joke. I don't care if I cop abuse over this but they are. I am a Brisbane season ticket holder but only because it is the only way I can see footy in Brisbane. The tickets are overpriced (I get 12 games here for the price of 18 & social club membership for the Hawks) and the atmosphere on match days is a joke. the supporters are uneducated and wouldn't know half the rules of the game and only think that umpires cause their team to loose.
Sorry.... to my point. I have never ever met a Brisbane fan that gives a stuff about Fitzroy and I know plenty of them. Fitzroy is not part of the Brisbane Lions and it never has been. Simply people in Brissie and everywhere see the New Lions as a refromulation of the brisbane Bears and a cheap and pathetic attempt by a club up here to get some supporters interstate. I am sorry if this offend people... I dont want to cause trouble but the Brisbane Lions arejust money hungry scounrels.....
Go Hawks! and Long Live Fitzroy!
I also think the Roys should start making bumper stickers. I'd buy a full crate of them and stick them around everywhere - just like those "Heavy Product" stickers that some maniac has stuck all over Melbourne's railway stations.
Perhaps they could also commission a re-issue of the FFC club song (in every version available). I'd buy it!
Mobbenfuhrer
13 Feb 2001, 14:49
I'm not whingeing.
My God is Fitzroy.
Here lieth no whinge.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Fat Pizza the debt I am referring to is NOT the Nauru debt, the merger proposal that was accepted agreed to pay the following:
Pay in full the $1.25million debt to the Nauruan Insurance Corporation.
Under-write the player costs for the 1996 season, including money they were already owed, to a maximum of $1million.
Cover Fitzroy debts, estimated by the club to be $950,000.
It is the last one of those 3 that I am talking about, the estimations were way under par according to Andrew Ireland:
"All we could go on at the time was that what we were told by Fitzroy was the financial position. And as it would turn out later, the $950,000 only covered about a third of the debt," Ireland said. "They were closer to $5million in debt than $3million."
Mobbenfuhrer
13 Feb 2001, 15:08
Bumper stickers ... heh!
We had a few tee shirts at the (old) Lynch Mob. Some involved a cartoon insignia of a lion with a number 11 on a torn piece of guernsey, with The Lynch Mob written above it.
Then, after Lynch left and the group changed name to just 'The Mob' (MOB standing for Masters Of Bulls**t) there was the tee shirt which claimed simply : MOB FFC - Rye Tupya Dee Pinya Kae Kyerb Leed. Not in the best taste, but a talking point.
Is that the sort of thing yer on about, Olmessimo?
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Hallowed be thy Roy
I have said it before and copped it and I will say it again....
The FFC got itself into a position where it lost control. It therefore put itself into a position where it had to accept a deal which was in the best interests of the creditors of the club, and the AFL...but not Fitzroy. I really don't understand all of the fuss now 4 years later. That was the position the FFC got itself into and now it must live with the outcome.
What should the FFC do ? Get behind the Brisbane Lions. If the FFC have enough underlying support in Melbourne then they will have significant say on the board of the BL's and then be able to influence from the inside. Looking for Brisbane to come to the party when the FFC (and clearly some of its members) have still not come to grips with the merger in the first place is pathetic. You are treating Brisbane as some foreign entity from which you need support; rather than the entity which now includes what remains of your team and history....if not the legal entity which is your club.
Oh, and if Brisbane did not realize that the debt was $3M instead of $1M then they should not have merged in the first place. That is what dueprocess is about....who was running the show. If I was to merge a company with someone else I would at least like to view the books !!!!
ptw
Mobbenfuhrer
13 Feb 2001, 17:53
ptw,
FFC seem intent on respecting those of its members who do not wish to have anything to do with the Brisbane Lions.
I am one of those members.
'The Roy is all'
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Phil Doyle
13 Feb 2001, 18:28
This place shuts at twelve, and they don't sell take-aways after eleven, so maybe we should go to the Carlton Club in the city and crack onto some backpackers?
I think the decision regarding the Rising Sun is grouse. It's the last decent pub left south of Brunswick Road. And the alcoholic manager Gordon is a legend. Bruce Mathieson is a crook and a charlatan who has led the FFC up the garden path on this one. Pokies are for suckers and pimps and have buggered up every pub they're associated with.
As we've established before God barracks for Fitzroy and as such i think we should explore option D.
There is a three year old filly called Astrodramus running around in the class two races in New South Wales. It's the best thing since, oh, I dunno, the last time there was a best thing.
What we do is get every cent that everyone associated with Fitzroy has and we back it on a quinella with the Field. After that we buy the Swans and we move them back to Lakeside, change their strip to the FFC monogram and call them Fitzroy.
Danni, the Narooma Football Club is playing in the Fitzroy strip without Brisbane's permission. I suggest you call the lawyers immediately. And you're still the cutest Minogue that ever there was.
And while we're at it Shane Warne's mobile number is 0419 232 323.
last Saturday night we ran out of piss at a party in Clifton Hill so we ended up spending $52 on a slab! We got a taxi driver to drive down to Chalkies and get it for us.
Just thought I'd share that with you.
We ended up at a party in Northcote, as you do, and Michael Thomas from Weddings Parties Anything was there. I kept whispering into his ear 'Sainters are doomed big boy', until he had us thrown out.
The Rising Sun is a great pub. I'm glad they're not going to bugger it up like everything else in creation.
Phil
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Remonstrating with the goal umpire
Michele
13 Feb 2001, 19:51
Some of the replies to this thread have very little knowledge and understanding of the Fitzroy Football Club, its background and long tradition. Fitzroy was one of the original VFL clubs.
Some posters show very litte understanding of the passion and pain and hurt caused to its supporters by the demise of Fitzroy.
Football is a very big part of the Melbourne, Vic psyche.
Telling supporters of a club that has been around for over 100 years, "get over it" won't heal rifts. I understand Bears supporters 'lost' their club too. What if the situations were changed? How would the Bears supporters feel, if their club was merged and re-located to Melbourne? Would the distance make them feel alienated? Perhaps the too would like a board for old-times sake?
Brisbane supporters should realise the merger has benefited their club, the grounds, players and Brisbane itself immensely.
What is the harm in old Roy supporters wanting to have a 'footy-board to reminisce or chat about the local Fitzroy teams?
Michele
NMFC 1869
DANNI - Yes, North were going to go with North/Fitzroy - I'm surprised you were unaware.
lioness
13 Feb 2001, 19:54
Originally posted by Phil Doyle:
As we've established before God barracks for Fitzroy and as such i think we should explore option D.
There is a three year old filly called Astrodramus running around in the class two races in New South Wales. It's the best thing since, oh, I dunno, the last time there was a best thing.
What we do is get every cent that everyone associated with Fitzroy has and we back it on a quinella with the Field. After that we buy the Swans and we move them back to Lakeside, change their strip to the FFC monogram and call them Fitzroy.
hehehehe now THAT'S an original idea. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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*the one and only lioness*
lioness
13 Feb 2001, 19:56
Originally posted by Michele:
Some of the replies to this thread have very little knowledge and understanding of the Fitzroy Football Club, its background and long tradition. Fitzroy was one of the original VFL clubs.
Some posters show very litte understanding of the passion and pain and hurt caused to its supporters by the demise of Fitzroy.
Football is a very big part of the Melbourne, Vic psyche.
Telling supporters of a club that has been around for over 100 years, "get over it" won't heal rifts. I understand Bears supporters 'lost' their club too. What if the situations were changed? How would the Bears supporters feel, if their club was merged and re-located to Melbourne? Would the distance make them feel alienated? Perhaps the too would like a board for old-times sake?
Brisbane supporters should realise the merger has benefited their club, the grounds, players and Brisbane itself immensely.
What is the harm in old Roy supporters wanting to have a 'footy-board to reminisce or chat about the local Fitzroy team?
YES!!!!!!!!!! Very well-put. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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*the one and only lioness*
Phil Doyle
13 Feb 2001, 20:31
That's it Lioness...without poetry they lack vision and imagination. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/wink.gif
Mobbenfuhrer
14 Feb 2001, 02:30
Nuffin'
Just up early, missed my ride to work, gonna get a taxi in late.
Needed somethin' to do.
I just remembered when buses used to run to Waverley from three stations for matches. On Saturdays they started from Clayton at 11am ... so there was no way to see all the ressies.
That annoyed me.
Anybody remember going to a Fitzroy guernsey presentation at Brunswick Street, and some loony accidentally brought down the volleyball net? That was me.
Anybody remember Roys matches at the Woval, with some loony screaming out to the Roygirls 'Gold! Gold! Gold for Australia!'? That was me.
If I'm knowledgeable, I do my level best to disguise it http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Ahhhhhh *reminisce*.
Maybe saints supporters will remember a saints/roys match at VFL Park, saints fans kicking football at halftime, ball rolled over onto the ground. Black Bombers confiscated it. Whole crowd chanted 'we want the ball back'. Police took ball off security and booted it back to the crowd. Much applause.
Ahhhhhh.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
cascade
14 Feb 2001, 03:01
Run it all by me again.
Whose clubs management was 5 million in debt.Whose club was it that didn't pay their players for a year.
The Bears right. Not on your life. They were in the black .They were solvent.
These supporters are pathetic.It is over 4 years, and you guys are never happy.
Maybe the best thing that could happen is that the Bears did the dirty on you as your club did,Mislead you.
But......
They havent, and will not. They are making a financial loss in Melbourne to appease and foster the Lions Melbourne membership base.They have changed the logo, song, colours, name.
But wait you want more.
What a load of crap, you guys are pathetic whingers.
Go watch the Fitzroy Reds and leave the Brisbane Lions alone.
cascade
14 Feb 2001, 04:24
Another thing.
Before the old Roys start to ridicule me. I have seen the merger docments, I have seen all the Annual reports of all the AFL clubs.
Your arguments are purely emotional, not factual.Emotion is football I agree.
But continuing on with the rose coloured glasses, that Fiztroy was done wrong by the media, AFL, Brisbane is wrong. It takes away the premise that all was financially correct at Fitzroy, and it wasn't. They had been telling the members for years it was ok, when really they were not okay financially.
Lots of pipe dreams. It just strung it out for 10 years more than it should have.
As for making Brisbane the bad guys in all this, that defies all logic.
Would you be feeling the same way if the Roos, who had and still have financial troubles took over your club. Would that have made you happier.
In the end, I think it wouldnt have you know. I think people have a need to lash out still at the death of their Fitzroy.
The problem os this is an AFL footy forum. Not a local league forum.
SO really unles syou want to talk about a curent AFL team, you should not be posting here.
Originally posted by Phil Doyle:
...maybe we should go to the Carlton Club in the city and crack onto some backpackers?
Do you have to be an ex-Roy to partake in this? If not, where do I sign? http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Port Adelaide 1870
14 Feb 2001, 04:40
Originally posted by cascade:
Another thing.
Before the old Roys start to ridicule me. I have seen the merger docments, I have seen all the Annual reports of all the AFL clubs.
Your arguments are purely emotional, not factual.Emotion is football I agree.
But continuing on with the rose coloured glasses, that Fiztroy was done wrong by the media, AFL, Brisbane is wrong. It takes away the premise that all was financially correct at Fitzroy, and it wasn't. They had been telling the members for years it was ok, when really they were not okay financially.
Lots of pipe dreams. It just strung it out for 10 years more than it should have.
As for making Brisbane the bad guys in all this, that defies all logic.
Would you be feeling the same way if the Roos, who had and still have financial troubles took over your club. Would that have made you happier.
In the end, I think it wouldnt have you know. I think people have a need to lash out still at the death of their Fitzroy.
The problem os this is an AFL footy forum. Not a local league forum.
SO really unles syou want to talk about a curent AFL team, you should not be posting here.
HARK !!! What is that that gleams from your Scabbard !!!!!
Raise it Not !
My words are not being heeded, for he has plunged that jagged Dagger into my heart, and the blood of my beloved Fitzroy is being spent upon the floor.
Leave Fitzroy alone Cascade and go follow the Bears...
PA1870
Hey cascade, emotion IS football. What do you think we're all here for??? It's not just a throwaway line. It's the only thing that matters. I don't want to buy into this argument. It breaks my heart. But if Fitzroy could have had just a tenth of the money the AFL hurled at Brisbane and Sydney to appease Channel 7 and their precious broadcasting revenue, they'd still be around today. Fitzroy were the victims of one of the biggest acts of public sodomy the AFL ever perpetrated, and none of your smug posturing is going to change that.
All these guys want is a link to a proud past and a way to keep the memory alive. They don't need lectures from you, my friend. And Brisbane haven't lost a damn thing. Their jumpers are better, their theme song is better, and they had a fistful of players thrown in to boot. So cut it out.
That really pisses me off.
Roylion, I'll go with option 2 as well.
Cascade - who are you kidding?
The Bears were a joke. They only performed in 1995-96 and the rest of their history was a joke. I have lived in Brisbane since I was five and been to see the Bears since they first played in 1987. Your arrogance is only suppassed by your ignorance. Fitzroy may have been broke and only had a small supporter base, but they were real supporters and still are. Who ever really gave a stuff about the bears, in fact how long have you supported them? Did you go to see them play at carrara before they were "in fashion" and when 2000 was a good crowd?
The problem with Brisbane football followers like yourself is they live in a big bubble. they have never known what it is to support a club for several generations in which the club is a massive part of your family history. Or are you one of those weak mongrels who abandonded a Victorian side to support the Bears when they started to play well? C'mon Give the Real LIons fans a break. Their club was ripped apart by a Brisbane outfit who lets not forget shouldn't even be here because they were on the brink of folding so many times. If the AFL helped the LIons like they did the Bears and Swans they would still be here..... That is just the fact.
And another question.... when the Bris Lions fall and loose more games than they win over about 10 years will you support them or go back to Rugby or soccer or support another club which is more fashionable?
Dont kid yourself real fans and real passion grows over time not after a few years clapping in the Northern stand drinking cafe lattes!
It seems to me that the only people who are objecting to us discussing the Roys are folk who just havent followed the game for very long.mobbbenfuhrer, myself, olmy(?)we are all 4th generation Fitzroy supporters. This is NOT a short amount of time .I know that I have never entertained a thought of barracking for ANYONE else even though for the 20 odd years, you know, the Roys were pretty bad.But as it has been pointed out age and tradition mean nothing now to the A**, just bums on seats (watching it on TV)Also from the amount of posts about Fitzroy in a very short time from Olmys original asking for a board (there's over 200)it is obvious there is a lot of support for the Roys and not all from old royboys.Thanks to the Hawkie barrackers-hope to Christ you're not next.
InTheBack!
14 Feb 2001, 08:15
Originally posted by RogerC:
And Brisbane haven't lost a damn thing. Their jumpers are better, their theme song is better, and they had a fistful of players thrown in to boot.
Dont think old Bears supporters will appreciate this condescending attitute. BUT I have seen this argument go round & round & round with no hope of resolution.
Lets have a Roys page for gawds sake so that they can go & communicate in peace.
FitzroyRamone
14 Feb 2001, 09:26
THE CLUB ON BRUNSWICK STREET
(to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun")
There is a club on Brunswick Street,
They bear the name Fitzroy,
Their called the Reds and their jumper,
I've worn since I was a boy
They don't play at the Gabba,
At Optus, they don't dwell,
They play their games on the Holy site,
Where Roys of yore did fell,
Now the only thing 'bout Brunswick Street,
Is it really needs a Bar,
Cos the Amo's don't like beer,
And the Newry's just too far,
Now Mother, tell your children,
Don't follow the AFL,
They'll take your soul, and kill your dreams,
And steal your money, as well,
I've got one foot on the oval,
The other's on the fence,
I'm going out to play kick-to-kick,
Got in at no expense,
Well, there is a club on Brunswick Street,
They bear the name Fitzroy,
Their called the Reds and their jumper,
I've worn since I was a boy
Cheers,
FitzroyRamone
Mobbenf*hrer Cover band
[This message has been edited by FitzroyRamone (edited 13 February 2001).]
Roylion
14 Feb 2001, 11:09
Just a reminder that this thread was a call for opinions on what the FFC Ltd. should do in the future, not a discussion on whether there should be a Fitzroy board.
Dannii, if you are reading this I'll let you know the answers to your question, from my understanding... when I have a little more spare time. It's complicated and will need explaining carefully.
Roysfanatic
14 Feb 2001, 11:27
HAHAH!!! Fu*k off cascade/greeny! Look at all the responses to your pathetic posts!! Everyone has had a go at you. You're a disgrace. You've got no idea! Just fu*k off and support your Bears (or at least your old videos of them, cos they aren't the fu*k coming back!).
And you think by posting under a number of different profiles that people will think you're more than one person? Puh-leeeeaassee!
Roysfanatic
14 Feb 2001, 11:30
Originally posted by cascade:
The problem os this is an AFL footy forum. Not a local league forum.
SO really unles syou want to talk about a curent AFL team, you should not be posting here.
Bull$hit. Where the fu*k does it say that? No-thefu*k-where. Get stuffed you loser!
Originally posted by Roylion:
Dannii, if you are reading this I'll let you know the answers to your question, from my understanding... when I have a little more spare time. It's complicated and will need explaining carefully.
Much Appreciated Roylion!
Mobbenfuhrer
14 Feb 2001, 16:09
Better clear the air here ... I'm a first generation supporter and none of my relatives follow the Roys. In fact, they're nearly all Pies fans.
Okay, I feel obliged to answer 'Where to now?' ...
Why ask? We are the only footballing entity in the history of VFl, and/or AFL footy, to have successfully established omnipresence. We are already all. Let's sit back and relax, and discuss it. If more Roys clubs come to be, so be it, and bonzah, but that is matter for fate. Feel free to support the causes, but don't belittle the existing supremacy of all that is Roy. 'Though they've erased what is you, its still all true.'
I was particularly amused by cascade, who somehow read into this (and/or other) topic(s) that the Roys fans were whingeing.
Seems like 9 out of ten Roys fans are constructively suggestive. Perhaps the other 1 out of ten might express the odd bee still buzzing in their headgear.
On the other hand, there seems to be a lot of complainants on the other side. Once again, there are a couple who are objective, but a majority, such as cascade, seems to be no more than a very large sour grape.
Fitzroy are now the most powerful footballing entity the world has ever seen. All spiritual paths lead to Brunswick Street. Zion, hosted by Adonai, is sitting at the bar happily, stating to a questioner that Fitzroy has a lease on the material world for an indefinite period.
We've got a filibuster, my friend. Oh, I'll call you a friend if a wish to, I as a Roy have supreme right.
We've got a filibuster, we cannot die, so long as we live. Like reciprocal love itself, that is a circle that may not be broken.
Heh, the Roy is so omnipotent that even requirement of worship is below it. Like the locust, all Roys speak with one mind, the mind of the Roy. Potent, beyond shattering ... HAHA it's the shattering of the Roy that gives us this power. We're everywhere. Only we see.
Geeze yer gottah love it! We can do a number of things to extend our holy realm, but what we already have does not require maintenance. It's self-supporting, above reproach. Constantly regenerating, spreading like a gentle malaise on the path to full blossom.
Where to? To your hearts! That's where the Roy is! That's where that godly feeling of quiet achievement, of satiation is to be found. With a beanie on it.
It howls! It howls! Into ever ear!
Roys Roys Roys Roys.
Roys Roys Roys Roys.
ROYS ROYS ROYS ROYS!
ROYS ROYS ROYS ROYS!
Roys Roys Roys Roys.
Roys Roys Roys Roys.
ROYS ROYS ROYS ROYS!
ROYS ROYS ROYS ROYS!
Where's the Tylenol ...
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Hallowed be thy Roy
I think what you're saying, Kev, is that the Roys are 'zen"?! http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/cool.gif
I too am only a 1st generation supporter (bit of a story attached, tho!).
Mobbenfuhrer
16 Feb 2001, 01:15
zen?
err ... no ... that was Bo Derek http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Margaret
16 Feb 2001, 04:16
Lost the plot the lot of you.
Give generational Fitzroy members a bad name by coming on here and bad mouthing our club.
We still follow the Lions.Yes the Brisbane Lions.
They have our history, they are part of us. Its not the same, but by goodness its damn good. I love watching my colours run around on Michael Voss, singing my song.
Is it still school holidays or something.
Roysfanatic
16 Feb 2001, 10:46
Originally posted by Margaret:
Lost the plot the lot of you.
Give generational Fitzroy members a bad name by coming on here and bad mouthing our club.
We still follow the Lions.Yes the Brisbane Lions.
They have our history, they are part of us. Its not the same, but by goodness its damn good. I love watching my colours run around on Michael Voss, singing my song.
Is it still school holidays or something.
Give up you fool. You're the same person who posted under "cascade" and all those other stupid names. And you're definitely NO Fitzroy supporter.
Mobbenfuhrer
16 Feb 2001, 13:43
I'm still trying to work out where I was badmouthing any club ...
... nope. Either its not directed at me, or they're claiming something that's quite obviously not true.
I'd say its not directed at me.
Like the slant on 'generational' ... http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Hallowed be thy Roy
OldLion
16 Feb 2001, 13:52
It's about creating new traditions whilst respecting old ones. No one said it was going to be easy, especially due to the geographic and cultural differences.
But hopefully it'll be enjoyable creating those traditions. Imaging Fitzroy at the turn of the century ( 1900 that is ) looking forward to a glittering decade - now turn the clock forward 100 years.
Fat Pizza
20 Feb 2001, 10:13
She probably couldn't understand what you were saying, Mobbenfuhrer.
I'm a 3rd generation Royboy & proud of it. I have nothing against the Brisbane Lions or their supporters.
To me, Fitzroy had more in commom with Dudley Moore than Bo Derek.
And Kev, you were obviously in disguise at the Mentals gig. If you'd been wearing your Fitzroy jumper or at least the Forty-bloody-Four windcheater, I'd have found you straight away.
Mobbenfuhrer
20 Feb 2001, 15:22
Fat Pizza ... I spent an hour or more looking for a bottle shop ... finally found one past the 'doof doof' music way down somewhere near Carlisle Street.
Got a Melways out later, no sign of that pub.
*twilight zone theme*
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Mobbenfuhrer
20 Feb 2001, 15:26
I wonder, how do you know about the forty-bloody-four windcheater?
Haven't worn that since the Roys were at Princes Park ...
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Fat Pizza
20 Feb 2001, 15:32
I hope you paid homage to the Kevin Murray Stand, as you passed the Junction Oval.
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Fat Pizzas. They're Big & they're Cheesy.
Mobbenfuhrer
20 Feb 2001, 15:34
Yep, did that, on the way there, might have forgotten on the way back.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Mobbenfuhrer
23 Feb 2001, 01:07
Recently saw the application form for a Fitzroy Reds social membership, will be signing up shortly.
Where to for Fitzroy FC? Well, I know where to for this Fitzroy fan. To Brunswick Street, and don't spare the whip.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Phil Doyle
23 Feb 2001, 02:16
I hope you see it within your soul to pop into the Lord Newry for a pot on the way...
And Fred Negro's band is playin' at the Tramways on a Saturday night these days...
Grouse opportunity to pay him out for barracking for Collingwood. He's the guy who did the Footymouth and Pub cartoons in InPress and Inside Football.
He's not a bastard as his parents were married long before he was born, just not to each other.
Phil Doyle
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Remonstrating with the goal umpire
Mobbenfuhrer
19 May 2010, 04:27
Feb 2001!
While looking for other stuff, came across this thread. Can we please have it shifted to the ROYal (the Fitzroy board?). I wanna *says this as creepily and perverted-sounding as can* discuss it. :)
yes i know this an old message
How many teams does fitzroy run or sponsor ?
( first grade, reserve, or under 19 )
seems to me if they were struggling with money
they should par things down a bit
i don't want to see fitz go down the fritz
just my op
many thanks to the lady who left fitz the $10,000 in her will
many thanks
Mobbenfuhrer
29 May 2010, 14:47
Well they fund Fitzroy seniors & Reserves, plus umm two U19s teams, and one or two (can't remember now) Club XVIII teams. They also sponsor about 1400 junior teams.
But the senior teams are Fitzroy teams now. They don't sponsor them. They are them.
catters05
31 May 2010, 15:20
To be honest, i dont understand why the Brisbane Lions and Sydney Swans dont build two VFL teams.
Thats what i would do anyway.
Brisbane Lions could build a Fitzroy Lions team in VFL and they could curtain raiser to all Lions games that are in Vic.
Social club which could make a killing each time the Brisbane lions visit. Potentially more members from it.
Same with South Melbourne/Sydney Swans. Especially Swans, they could play their reserves team in the South Melbourne team in VFL.
Wonaeamirri33
1 Jun 2010, 00:02
Brisbane Lions could build a Fitzroy Lions team in VFL and they could curtain raiser to all Lions games that are in Vic.
Social club which could make a killing each time the Brisbane lions visit. Potentially more members from it.
Oh they certainly could do this. But that'd require the Bris Lions administration to actually RESPECT Fitzroy people. Frankly, there ain't much sign of that at this point, especially under Bowers.
Witness what's happened this year with their removal of any real recognition of Fitzroy within the Bris Lions logo and the jersey, in direct violation of the legal agreement they signed in 1996.
fishmonger
8 Jun 2010, 14:24
I'd love to see the FFC in the VFL, but the AFL would never let it happen. The AFL has no interest in seeing the VFL become a strong, viable competition which it would if clubs like Fitzroy were to become involved, especially given that Geelong and Collingwood now field sides in the league.
I also think Fitzroy should push for a demerger. The Brisbane Lions are pretty much going there own way anyway and are creating their own brand to shed their history. They owe a LOT to Fitzroy. But what is the benefit to Fitzroy of being part of the Lions merger now ? There are no more Fitzroy players in the team and the Brisbane premierships were all paid for by the AFL anyway. Where was the fanfare from Brisbane when Kevin Murray was named a legend of the club ? Where's the statue at the Gabba ? All I saw was a small bit of copy recycled from AFL House. And do a search for Fitzroy on the Brisbane website, apart from a small page in the history section and one board member, there isn't much left to link the two clubs.
But now what would Brisbane do in the event of a demerger ? They'd be left with no name and would have to come up with new colours etc. They'd have to become the Bears again ...
Fitzroy has proven that they can maintain their own proud history and significant fanbase without being tied to the top comp. North Sydney Bears have shown that they can do it in the NSW Rugby League and Melbourne University has in the amateurs.
But the question is does the AFL now own the Fitzroy brand ?
Mobbenfuhrer
8 Jun 2010, 14:31
While this is an old thread (from about 2001), I guess the subject will never age.
I'll just look at your last line. I believe the AFL does not own the brand, though there might be smaller elements of it that they have some sort of control over.
Roylion would be able to answer that one better for you.
I'd love to see the FFC in the VFL, but the AFL would never let it happen. The AFL has no interest in seeing the VFL become a strong, viable competition which it would if clubs like Fitzroy were to become involved, especially given that Geelong and Collingwood now field sides in the league.
I too would love to see the Fitzroy Football Club in a strong independent VFL. However while the VFL is run the way it is - as a defacto AFL reserves for the Victorian sides. Fitzroy is definitely better off in the VAFA. And raising the annual funds to compete in the VFL - about $1 million - is also a factor.
I also think Fitzroy should push for a demerger. The Brisbane Lions are pretty much going there own way anyway and are creating their own brand to shed their history. They owe a LOT to Fitzroy. But what is the benefit to Fitzroy of being part of the Lions merger now ? There are no more Fitzroy players in the team and the Brisbane premierships were all paid for by the AFL anyway. Where was the fanfare from Brisbane when Kevin Murray was named a legend of the club ? Where's the statue at the Gabba ? All I saw was a small bit of copy recycled from AFL House. And do a search for Fitzroy on the Brisbane website, apart from a small page in the history section and one board member, there isn't much left to link the two clubs.
Brisbane are clearly re-positioning themselves as a solely Queensland based club and that has always been a concern. If the logo issue does get to court and the Brisbane Lions win, the merger is effectively over in any case. One of the remaining key planks of the agreement will not apply and the other - the six games in Victoria - will go in due course as well.
But now what would Brisbane do in the event of a demerger ? They'd be left with no name and would have to come up with new colours etc. They'd have to become the Bears again ...
No, Brisbane would remain the Lions. Fitzroy has no exclusive claim on the lion mascot and the colours. If the Brisbane Lions win the court case and the Fitzroy Lion logo is no longer used,, then Fitzroy may be able to trademark it themselves sometimes in 2013. Under Australian law, the non-use of a registered trademark for three years or more may expose the registration to cancellation on the grounds of non-use.
But the question is does the AFL now own the Fitzroy brand ?
Depedns what you mean by "the brand".
The Fitzroy Football Club can use the graphical representation lion if they wish. The AFL does not trademark all lions (as Dimmey's are currently arguing) and the Fitzroy FC could select any lion they wanted to, as their own.
However as "the Fitzroy lion logo" is currently trademarked to the AFL, the Fitzroy Football Club cannot use that lion without permission, especially if the AFL consider the use of it would dilute the Brisbane Lions identity in Victoria.
Neither are the red, blue and gold colours trademarked to either the AFL or Fitzroy, so Fitzroy can and do wear those colours currently. The FFC monogram on the front of the traditional Fitzroy jumper is trademarked to the Fitzroy Football Club, so can be worn at will.
Most other intellectual property of Fitzroy in its AFL guise is trademarked by the AFL and licensed for use by the Brisbane Lions. Whether the Lions or the AFL want to allow Fitzroy to benefit by that use as well, is in the end their decision.
Mobbenfuhrer
8 Jun 2010, 15:40
... However as "the Fitzroy lion logo" is currently trademarked to the AFL, the Fitzroy Football Club cannot use that lion without permission, especially if the AFL consider the use of it would dilute the Brisbane Lions identity in Victoria. ...
and, (earlier in post)
... Under Australian law, the non-use of a registered trademark for three years or more may expose the registration to cancellation on the grounds of non-use. ...
two and a half years to go, then, eh? :thumbsu:
The Lions Den
8 Jun 2010, 16:08
How do Therry Penola get away with using it? Wonder if they sought permission or just threw it on their Guernsey? :confused:
Mobbenfuhrer
8 Jun 2010, 16:16
sought :p
How do Therry Penola get away with using it?
I don't think the Brisbane Lions or the AFL would care about Therry Penola using it.
However both organisations might be a bit sensitive about the Brisbane Lions supposed merger partner, the 127 year old Fitzroy Football Club, using their former Lion logo as a marketing / branding symbol in Victoria. They might consider that to be in direct competition with their own marketing. And as they hold the trademark to the logo, they can refuse permission for an organisation to use it.
Maroon Goon
9 Jun 2010, 19:20
I don't think the Brisbane Lions or the AFL would care about Therry Penola using it.
However both organisations might be a bit sensitive about the Brisbane Lions supposed merger partner, the 127 year old Fitzroy Football Club, using their former Lion logo as a marketing / branding symbol in Victoria. They might consider that to be in direct competition with their own marketing. And as they hold the trademark to the logo, they can refuse permission for an organisation to use it.
Murrambena, And Toorak use just in the southern Football League alone. From what i saw of Toorak a year ago it was a carbon copy of the Melbourne stip of the Red blue and gold lion???
Murrambena, And Toorak use just in the southern Football League alone. From what i saw of Toorak a year ago it was a carbon copy of the Melbourne stip of the Red blue and gold lion???
That's true.
But neither Murrambena nor Toorak are the Fitzroy Football Club, with one hundred years of history in the VFL-AFL.
Who owns the Fitzroy brand, including identity and history? Can there be any doubt that the Fitzroy Football Club in the VAFA has a history stretching back to 1883? Yet the Brisbane Lions and the AFL also claim ownership of one hundred years of Fitzroy history in the VFL-AFL competition from 1897-1996.
Ideally all would work together, but at the moment that's not happening.
And from 1997-1999 it didn't happen either. If Fitzroy had fielded teams in 1997-1999, there's absolutely no way the Lions and the AFL would have permitted Fitzroy to use any Fitzroy logo or brand that the AFL had trademarked.
Wonaeamirri33
10 Jun 2010, 01:34
I also think Fitzroy should push for a demerger. The Brisbane Lions are pretty much going there own way anyway and are creating their own brand to shed their history. They owe a LOT to Fitzroy. But what is the benefit to Fitzroy of being part of the Lions merger now?
AMEN Brother!
http://application.denofgeek.com/images/gb/sm/leap.jpg
Nobody would be happier than me if a demerger took place. And I'd be happier than a pig in mud if we gained sufficient financial strength to compete at a professional level again, whether it be the VFL, or another competition for that matter...
The Lions Den
10 Jun 2010, 09:15
And I'd be happier than a pig in mud if we gained sufficient financial strength to compete at a professional level again, whether it be the VFL, or another competition for that matter...
Call me selfish or whatever but im not with ya on this one, i love where the club is at the moment playing in the VAFA and at Brunswick st, its a great chemistry, the players are great blokes and giving their heart for the jumper, remember they arnt being payed so they are playing for Fitzroy coz they want to, some are even paying to play who arnt sponsored. The officials and the management are sensational people who are giving alot of their time to the club purely because they love Fitzroy, the supporters are the type who bleed maroon and blue, the diehards. Even the oppositions grounds are sensational in most cases, Como park and Selesian were great places to watch a game of footy and im sure there are many other clubs grounds in different grades that would be awesome to watch a game of footy also. Playing in the VAFA is so up close and personal that its unreal and u feel part of it. I for one would hate to go to a concrete colosium to watch the Roys nowadays, especially after having a good taste of whats going on now at Brunswick st, which you would say bye bye too if things changed. The only thing i would like to see change is this years win loss ratio, and more Fitzroy supporters at the games supporting the Roys both at home and away. Brunswick st is such a beautiful place to spend a Saturday afternoon, even if its pissing down rain, i would hate to loose that, and hate to loose the chemistry that the people including the players create. Its just sensational!!!!!!!!!!! but feel free to call me selfish if you wish...
Mobbenfuhrer
10 Jun 2010, 12:44
Yep while Wona's point is valid in many ways, I fall into the Lions Den category. The only real thing i didn't like about the ammos was the dryness.
One thing preventing the Roys fromjoining a non-ammo league is the lack of a fence around the ground. Entry fee can't be enforced. That's why finals can't be held there.
caveman
17 Jun 2010, 23:12
What is the latest on the logo case with Brisbane and Fitzroy? Is there a court date set?
Mobbenfuhrer
17 Jun 2010, 23:58
Hiya caveman, good to see you around. I hope you received my spam ... err ... I mean, my message :)
Logogate? No discussion on it recently, but we have a thread on it here : http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=648264