View Full Version : MacGill 1/170, even though such won't happen is it even worth Australia playing....
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 14:18
a recognised spinner next summer against India?
Considering they are the best players of spin in the world.
MacGill isn't good enough and there is no adequate replacement for Warne at this present time and there is an abundance of fast bowlers. (much more likely to trouble India)
and when they did come four years ago MacGill's bowling was a joke.
Symonds and Clarke would be sufficent and seeing as MacGill isn't a wicket taking threat against India they'd be much tidier as well.
A bowling line-up of Lee, Clark, Hilfenhaus and Tait is far more threatening than anything with MacGill in it.
spanna050
22 Mar 2007, 15:47
I take you're watching the game on Fox?
He's bowled a hell of alot better than those figures suggest.
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 16:13
I've watched him all year and years previous.
He hasn't, didn't and won't cause the Indians any more problems than Symonds will.
It would be a waste of time playing him.
spanna050
22 Mar 2007, 16:17
So you have been watching him today?
One bad series in a stellar career and he's no good?
Ricketts
22 Mar 2007, 16:18
Tasmania are better than India though.
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 16:23
Tasmania are better than India though.
Far better batting and on Australia's FLAT pitches they'll dominate again. The only way they won't dominate is if there is enough in the wicket for the FAST bowlers.
I mean they compiled a second innings score of 600, an effortless 700 and on Boxing Day they were on like 2/300 without breaking a sweat.
Playing MacGill would be a waste of time. His spin has never and will never trouble the Indian batsman. But I can imagine the swing of Hilfenhaus and pace of Tait on wickets doing a bit causing them all sorts of problems.
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 16:25
So you have been watching him today?
One bad series in a stellar career and he's no good?
seen a bit of it,
one bad series?
he's had several other bad series in his career and has gotten more wickets with full tosses/half trackers than any bowler this side of Michael Beven.
his domestic form everytime I see him/have seen him has been poor.
He doesn't deserve a place in the side. Symonds is a better spin option his variation and accuracy is far more likely to cause the Indians problems. (and that's forgetting what he brings to the Australian team batting at 5)
spanna050
22 Mar 2007, 16:28
seen a bit of it,
one bad series?
he's had several other bad series in his career and has gotten more wickets with full tosses/half trackers than any bowler this side of Michael Beven.
his domestic form everytime I see him/have seen him has been poor.
He doesn't deserve a place in the side. Symonds is a better spin option his variation and accuracy is far more likely to cause the Indians problems. (and that's forgetting what he brings to the Australian team batting at 5)
Get your hand off it mate. You don't take 198 wickets in 40 tests with an average of 27 and one of the best strike rates in the game by bowling long hops and full tosses.
MacGill-hating is getting old.
Ted Ed Fred
22 Mar 2007, 16:35
I'd rather Hauritz play than Tait. If they play 4 seamers it would be something like Clark, Lee, Hilfenhaus and Johnson. No way will Tait and Lee play in the same team. Tait is similar to what Lee was like last time India were here except even more erratic, and Lee got murdered in that series
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 16:37
I'd rather Hauritz play than Tait. If they play 4 seamers it would be something like Clark, Lee, Hilfenhaus and Johnson. No way will Tait and Lee play in the same team. Tait is similar to what Lee was like last time India were here except even more erratic, and Lee got murdered in that series
Hauritz?
and to top it off you named Johnson who's proven to be MORE erratic than Tait recently.
poor argument dude, that contains self-inflicted contradictions. come back when you can actually form an 'opinion' that makes even a shred of common sense.
Pura Cup team of the year 2006/07:
Simon Katich (capt, NSW)
Phil Jaques (NSW)
Chris Rogers (WA)
Brad Hodge (Vic)
David Hussey (Vic)
Brad Haddin (vc, NSW)
Andrew McDonald (Vic)
Andy Bichel (Qld)
Shaun Tait (SA)
Stuart MacGill (NSW)
Ben Hilfenhaus (Tas)
12th man: Ben Edmondson (WA).
Shocking year....:rolleyes:
Has bowled a lot better than his figures suggest. 37 wickets in 9 matches this season...
Ted Ed Fred
22 Mar 2007, 16:51
India aren't the best players of spin anyway, Australia are.
The Indian batting line up has gone downhill over the last couple of years as wel. Definitely not the force of old.
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 17:12
India aren't the best players of spin anyway, Australia are.
The Indian batting line up has gone downhill over the last couple of years as wel. Definitely not the force of old.
where's your response to my queries about your obtuse contradictions?
Australia are the best batsman. Clearly. Spin normally comprises 25% of bowling attacks, sometimes 40%.
India are the best players of spin, there's not much doubt about that. They play if beautifully, sometimes effortlessly.
Australia are the best batting team by far, have the best batsman and would be right up there in terms of the best teams facing spin but India are clearly the best. The way they've played Warne and MacGill in particular over the years has been nothing short of mesmerising. Their problems lie almost solely in their inability to play quality fast bowling and a moving ball.
(you've already demonstrated in this thread you have little to know idea what you're on about so anticipation of an intelligent response is not forthcoming)
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 17:13
Pura Cup team of the year 2006/07:
Simon Katich (capt, NSW)
Phil Jaques (NSW)
Chris Rogers (WA)
Brad Hodge (Vic)
David Hussey (Vic)
Brad Haddin (vc, NSW)
Andrew McDonald (Vic)
Andy Bichel (Qld)
Shaun Tait (SA)
Stuart MacGill (NSW)
Ben Hilfenhaus (Tas)
12th man: Ben Edmondson (WA).
Shocking year....:rolleyes:
Has bowled a lot better than his figures suggest. 37 wickets in 9 matches this season...
Simon Katich, captain.
:D
He'd be the worst skipper in the country.
Shaun Tait? what did he play 4 or 5 games? I'd be very surprised if Gillespie's figures for the season weren't similar/better.
Edmonson? the WA fans see him as a source of amusement.
Not really the best team now is it?
I'll let you get back to the tissues though. :p
A valid point when you think about it. Even the great man Shane Warne had limited success against them from memory.
If we played the 4 quicks, some part time spin for a few overs to give the frontliners a rest.
If we went with that option, definitely need to grass up the pitches. Not like the last series against India, where we pretty much played into their hands with flat, low, slow pitches
Marklar_33
22 Mar 2007, 18:22
Do not ever base the talent of Stuart MacGill on anything but Test performances. The man lives to play Test cricket, not anything below. He only plays for NSW because its a pre-requisite for making the next step. He thrives on Test match pressure and will prove over the next 3 years that he is the 2nd best leg-spinner since WWII :thumbsu:
Ted Ed Fred
22 Mar 2007, 18:28
Hauritz?
and to top it off you named Johnson who's proven to be MORE erratic than Tait recently.
poor argument dude, that contains self-inflicted contradictions. come back when you can actually form an 'opinion' that makes even a shred of common sense.
Johnson has a better economy in both first class and ODIs.
Try again
Tasmania are better than India though.
Especially when a bowler is coming up against the might of the Tassie lower order. ;)
MacGill should never play for Australia again.
apollo_creed
22 Mar 2007, 19:34
Johnson has a better economy in both first class and ODIs.
Try again
when did I mention career records?
I said recently. :rolleyes: :D
I didn't like Johnson when he first started out because he didn't deserve his position but a time has evolved he grew on me because he seems to be a good guy.
Johnson was dropped from the team because he had become ridiculously erratic and had lost all line, length and confidence. Or don't you understand this?
evidently you can't read and I could throw other terms in your direction but I'm sure others can guess what they are. again, come back to me when you can construct a decent argument backed up by facts.
to suggest Tait not be considered for being erratic (ignoring the fact India struggle against genuine fast bowling, fast yorkers and reverse swing all being Tait's srengths) and then have the audacity to list Johnson as a replacement shows your ignorance and lack of understanding of cricket and anything relating to it.
A thinking man would've suggested Bracken but that considered we all know how his line and length bowling fared against the Indians. He's far less likely to trouble India's batsman than any erratic bowler around.
BK Eaglesfan
22 Mar 2007, 20:03
I personally would rather not see MacGill in the side next year against India. I'm not anti MacGill, but I genuinely do not believe he will assist in bowling India out for scores that leave us a chance of winning tests.
Last time India toured they made our bowling look impotent.......we need to produce Australian wickets next summer, if there's one thing the Indian batsmen have shown time and time again over the years is they do not like the ball up around their ears.
MacGill does have a good test record, but just from watching over the years (no I haven't checked facts) I would think many of his wickets have come against England and South Africa (two nations not exactly known for their prowess against spinners), on a very spin friendly SCG, or cheap wickets against tail enders. Often he seems to have bowled 30 - 40 overs in an innings and ends up with 3 or 4 for 100 odd, several of the wickets being tailenders.
I don't know what the answer is, but I have a sneaking suspicion it isn't MacGill against India.
dan warna
22 Mar 2007, 20:40
concur that phil jacques has had a stella FC career but is he the best opener on 06/07 form? isn't north and a couple of others ahead of him for this season?
concur that phil jacques has had a stella FC career but is he the best opener on 06/07 form? isn't north and a couple of others ahead of him for this season?
Think that Jacques has probably slipped a bit this past season. Would of thought North and Rogers would be ahead of him at the minute.
It's Stuey's age that's a concern. And we should prepare pitches with pace and bounce if we want to dominate them.
Bomber Bears
22 Mar 2007, 22:11
macgill should ply, tait should be nowhere near the team.
Lee
Clark
Hilfenhaus
Macgill
should be the lineup.
Simon Katich, captain.
:D
He'd be the worst skipper in the country.
He skippered a side missing their best players for the majority of the season into a final...
Shaun Tait? what did he play 4 or 5 games? I'd be very surprised if Gillespie's figures for the season weren't similar/better.
Was your best player and only played 4 games. Pretty much sums SA cricket up. :o
Edmonson? the WA fans see him as a source of amusement.
He was named the best drinks carrier...
Not really the best team now is it?
Well..yes it was? Did you miss the media release?
I'll let you get back to the tissues though. :p
I don't have a cold? :confused:
India, like Sri Lanka are sh*t frightened of fast bowling. Gotta go with the quicks. MacGill is a hasbeen, of sorts.
Ted Ed Fred
24 Mar 2007, 15:03
when did I mention career records?
I said recently. :rolleyes: :D
I didn't like Johnson when he first started out because he didn't deserve his position but a time has evolved he grew on me because he seems to be a good guy.
Johnson was dropped from the team because he had become ridiculously erratic and had lost all line, length and confidence. Or don't you understand this?
evidently you can't read and I could throw other terms in your direction but I'm sure others can guess what they are. again, come back to me when you can construct a decent argument backed up by facts.
to suggest Tait not be considered for being erratic (ignoring the fact India struggle against genuine fast bowling, fast yorkers and reverse swing all being Tait's srengths) and then have the audacity to list Johnson as a replacement shows your ignorance and lack of understanding of cricket and anything relating to it.
A thinking man would've suggested Bracken but that considered we all know how his line and length bowling fared against the Indians. He's far less likely to trouble India's batsman than any erratic bowler around.
Don't worry mate, I saw in another thread that you're from SA. now it all makes sense.
Four right arm seamers with the rubbish of symonds would be an ordinary attack. Just look at South Africa - decent, very good on a bowler friendly pitch but otherwise pretty bog ordinary and predictable. Bracken is at least a left armer and deserves a go more than Tait, much better bowler than he was 3 years ago too.
apollo_creed
24 Mar 2007, 15:56
If Australia produce the same flat, lifeless pitches as last time then not only do they negate their strength/India's weaknesses then they're playing right into India's hands.
India might as well be playing the series at home.
You saw last time in Sydney, Sachan made the most effortless 240 I've ever seen and it was accumulated with ease. The same thing will happen this time. Sehwag will have a field day on flat pitches, any movement/life early on and he's like a dear in headlights. None of the Indian players are troubled by MacGill but not only that he's more erratic than Tait and Lee combined.
I think with no stand-out spin candidate it's a case of horses for courses and all that ****. India on bouncy wickets against quality fast bowling would crumble. On flat wickets, against a young Australian team then they might very well go one better than last time.
NSWCROW
24 Mar 2007, 15:59
DUD
Always has been.
apollo_creed
24 Mar 2007, 16:01
Don't worry mate, I saw in another thread that you're from SA. now it all makes sense.
as are two of the moderators.... your point?
Four right arm seamers with the rubbish of symonds would be an ordinary attack.
Lee, Clark, Hilfenahaus and Tait would be an ordinary attack on pitches more catered to their strengths?
I sincerely doubt it.
Bracken is at least a left armer
so?
and deserves a go more than Tait,
Based on what?
much better bowler than he was 3 years ago too.
Absolutely salami. He's no different, if anything he's become more of a one day bowler. He's successful in one day cricket, because he's hard to get away, the fields suit such and the batsman are implored to attack him. The reason he was unsuccessful in test cricket is one of patience and he isn't and never will be penetrating.
He'll never be a test match bowler. Even Gillespie would still be a far better option at this stage, as would Bichel.