The Hayden/Hodge argument

[cold toaster]

Some dishonest stats have been thrown around claiming Hayden has been in worse form than Hodge and deserves to be dropped.

This is simply incorrect.

Hodge was recalled to the Australian side on 19th January 2007 against England, and has played in 10 matches since that time.

Over this period, he has averaged 54.62: http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=player;playerid=6253;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;t eam=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=2006%2F07;homeaway =0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefaul t=2005-12-03;start=2005-12-03;enddefault=2007-03-18;end=2007-03-18;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;s cheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0; captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;viewtype=aro_list;runslow=; runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=; ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wi cketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caught low=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;csear ch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

Hayden, over the same period, has played 13 matches for an average of 58.18: http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=player;playerid=6253;class=odiplayer;filter=basic;t eam=0;opposition=0;notopposition=0;season=2006%2F07;homeaway =0;continent=0;country=0;notcountry=0;groundid=0;startdefaul t=2005-12-03;start=2005-12-03;enddefault=2007-03-18;end=2007-03-18;tourneyid=0;finals=0;daynight=0;toss=0;scheduledovers=0;s cheduleddays=0;innings=0;result=0;followon=0;seriesresult=0; captain=0;keeper=0;dnp=0;recent=;viewtype=aro_list;runslow=; runshigh=;batposition=0;dismissal=0;bowposition=0;ballslow=; ballshigh=;bpof=0;overslow=;overshigh=;conclow=;conchigh=;wi cketslow=;wicketshigh=;dismissalslow=;dismissalshigh=;caught low=;caughthigh=;caughttype=0;stumpedlow=;stumpedhigh=;csear ch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

If we include only Hayden's last 10 matches, his average shoots up to 65.66.

This 'Hodge has outperformed Hayden' line isn't doing Hayden justice.

He is not in prime form, but he has been better than Hodge and his runs have come against better opposition.

[eddiesmith]

So how can Hayden play more matches than Hodgey if Hodgey was supposed to have been recalled to the Aussie side? If he was recalled then he would be playing? Oh thats right, you want to include 1 off matches as part of his recall even though he was dropped and then recalled again later because that wouldnt support your pathetic argument :rolleyes:

Oh and why put down Hodgey just because Hayden wasnt good enough to make runs against the Minnows?

[cold toaster]

Excuse me?

So when other players were rotated out of the side like Hodge was, they had to be 'recalled'?

Hodge was recalled, rotated out and came back in. He was never removed from the squad.

There is no need to be aggressive simply because the facts don't suit your argument.

[eddiesmith]

He was rotated? Oh god thats a classic :D

Brad Hodge was never in the Australian squad, he came in when Ponting wanted a rest and was removed immediately afterwards, he went back to Victoria and didnt travel with the Aussie team because he was only brought in as a 1 off

When Symonds got injured was the first time he was added as the best available player to the squad and was permantly in the side which he guaranteed with a 99* in his first game of his recall

[Power21]

So how can Hayden play more matches than Hodgey if Hodgey was supposed to have been recalled to the Aussie side? If he was recalled then he would be playing? Oh thats right, you want to include 1 off matches as part of his recall even though he was dropped and then recalled again later because that wouldnt support your pathetic argument :rolleyes:

Oh and why put down Hodgey just because Hayden wasnt good enough to make runs against the Minnows?

Oh dear.

Stats prove Hayden is more deserving of a spot and he still tries to argue the point.

Hayden's runs vs non-minnows >>> Hodge's runs vs minnows

He is unlucky but honestly who gives a crap he is Victorian.

[Cooldude]

Some middle order batsmen are in way worse form than Hodge is

Plus I doubt Symonds is anywhere near fully fit anyway

[Groucho]

This 'Hodge has outperformed Hayden' line isn't doing Hayden justice.



I don't think that's the line. It's more a case of whether it's better to open with an all rounder and therefore strengthening the bowling rather than weakening the batting, given that Watson's form as an opener has been quite good.

[eddiesmith]

Oh dear.

Stats prove Hayden is more deserving of a spot and he still tries to argue the point.

Hayden's runs vs non-minnows >>> Hodge's runs vs minnows

He is unlucky but honestly who gives a crap he is Victorian.
Actually stats prove that Hodge is the most in form batsman in the Aussie side and the 2nd best in the World Cup of all nations

Of course people want to remove minnow bashing when the player they are defending failed against the minnows

[Bomber Bears]

Neither hsould be dropped, watson should be

[IN & UNDER]

Neither hsould be dropped, watson should be

Agreed BB, Symonds if fit should be in the side along with Hodge. Watson is way too inconsistant with both bat and ball.:thumbsd:

[Tapee]

It's a shame for Hodge. Watson and Clarke should have been ahead of him on the to drop list.

[Greg Miller= Messiah]

what the hell is this Hayden Hodge arguement at the moment on form there Australia's two best batsman alongside Ponting.
If anyone has to go for Hodge its definatly Watson

[red+black]

Stupid thread, stupid argument.

Who the hell is saying that Hayden should be dropped for Hodge?

[cold toaster]

Think the Hayden over Hodge argument is well and truly sealed.

Fastest century.

[eddiesmith]

Stupid thread, stupid argument.

Who the hell is saying that Hayden should be dropped for Hodge?
Those that refuse to accept the most out of form players in the side are those who they dont think should ever be droped

[cold toaster]

Those that refuse to accept the most out of form players in the side are those who they dont think should ever be droped

Oh eddiesmith.

Talking up Hodge over Hayden, Hayden smears egg all over your face by getting runs when they count.

Fastest World Cup century. BOOM.

[eddiesmith]

Oh eddiesmith.

Talking up Hodge over Hayden, Hayden smears egg all over your face by getting runs when they count.

Fastest World Cup century. BOOM.
No he doesnt :rolleyes:

Hodgey scored a century in his last innings for Australia, good luck to Hayden if he scored a hundred, doesnt change my argument at all

[cold toaster]

No he doesnt :rolleyes:

Hodgey scored a century in his last innings for Australia, good luck to Hayden if he scored a hundred, doesnt change my argument at all

You talked up Hodge over Hayden.

Hayden has averaged better than Hodge over their previous 10 matches in 2007.

He has now hit the fastest World Cup hundred, against the No 1 side in the world - NOT a minnow.

Hayden >>>> Hodge.

[eddiesmith]

You talked up Hodge over Hayden.

Hayden has averaged better than Hodge over their previous 10 matches in 2007.

He has now hit the fastest World Cup hundred, against the No 1 side in the world - NOT a minnow.

Hayden >>>> Hodge.
It is funny how Aussie fans kept saying rankings mean nothing etc when SA took over now they are using it to justify an argument, hilarious :p

BTW you do realise he took the record off a player who couldnt even get a game for South Australia dont you? ;)

[Crow-mo]

Hodgey scored a century in his last innings for Australia, good luck to Hayden if he scored a hundred, doesnt change my argument at all

well one needs to consider whose opinion it is ;)

[lyall]

See you later Hodgey

[Homer Jnr]

South Africa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Netherlands

Thus, Hayden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hodge.

Hayden has rocked the biggest score by an Australian in ODI history and the fastest ever 100 at a World Cup in his past 5 or so innings. I much prefer that vein of form rather than the lazy form where Hodge goes minnow-bashing and has a whole state stroking themselves for it.

[Blues_Man]

It is funny how Aussie fans kept saying rankings mean nothing etc when SA took over now they are using it to justify an argument, hilarious :p

BTW you do realise he took the record off a player who couldnt even get a game for South Australia dont you? ;)

Once again you have been owned ..Hayden and Coldtoaster has made your comments look pretty stupid ...mind you thats no tough gig :D

[eddiesmith]

Not really, Hodgeys form was better than Haydens, thats what the argument was, even with that Hundred Hodgey is still probably ahead but the player who I would have dropped for Symonds failed yet again last night

[beatnik]

Not really, Hodgeys form was better than Haydens, thats what the argument was, even with that Hundred Hodgey is still probably ahead but the player who I would have dropped for Symonds failed yet again last night

who? :confused:

[RoosterLad]

He thinks Hussey should be dropped. :rolleyes:

[likka]

He thinks Hussey should be dropped. :rolleyes:

A wish more than a personal objective opinion.

[dtm06]

It is funny how Aussie fans kept saying rankings mean nothing etc when SA took over now they are using it to justify an argument, hilarious :p

BTW you do realise he took the record off a player who couldnt even get a game for South Australia dont you? ;)

Mate, you are making a fool of yourself. Your last bit doesn't even make sense! You do realise Hodge can't even score a century quicker than a guy who couldn't get a game for South Australia don't you;) .

I like Hodge but you my friend, are wrong.

[Slay Master G]

Hayden is a proven matchwinner over many years.

As are Symonds, Clarke and Hussey.

Hodge has won Australia the game in his only opportunity v NZ at the the MCG

The only weak link in the team is Watson. He is the only player in the Australian squad not capable of making a matchwinning impact.

PLEASE DROP HIM, PLEASE.

[cold toaster]

Hayden is a proven matchwinner over many years.

As are Symonds, Clarke and Hussey.

Hodge has won Australia the game in his only opportunity v NZ at the the MCG

The only weak link in the team is Watson. He is the only player in the Australian squad not capable of making a matchwinning impact.

PLEASE DROP HIM, PLEASE.

I believe Watson is doing exactly what is wanted from him this World Cup.

He is yet to be dismissed, striking at 150, bowling as required (picked up a key wicket) and is a phenomenal fielder - Cricinfo calls his runout of De Villiers the turning point of yesterday's game.

Consider your opinion questioned.

[Slay Master G]

I believe Watson is doing exactly what is wanted from him this World Cup.

He is yet to be dismissed, striking at 150, bowling as required (picked up a key wicket) and is a phenomenal fielder - Cricinfo calls his runout of De Villiers the turning point of yesterday's game.

Consider your opinion questioned.

Let's be honest, he was throwing a "bounce throw" to Gilchrist that accidentally hit the stumps. Total luck. It's akin to the short leg ducking for cover and having the batsmen's pull shot lodge in his mid-riff.

Hodge's fielding (which is excellent) and batting ability outweigh the combination of Watson's batting, bowling and fielding.

[patsmith]

Ah Eddie. Completely unreasonable in his infatuation with Brad Hodge. I actually enjoy it when he is dropped, as it makes this board that much more interesting, as well as making the team stronger.

[cold toaster]

Let's be honest, he was throwing a "bounce throw" to Gilchrist that accidentally hit the stumps. Total luck. It's akin to the short leg ducking for cover and having the batsmen's pull shot lodge in his mid-riff.

That's a good way to put it down.

I'd prefer to side with the assessment of it that I saw, and that Cricinfo also strangely agreed with.


Hodge's fielding (which is excellent) and batting ability outweigh the combination of Watson's batting, bowling and fielding.

Obviously they don't. I trust the selectors' judgement over yours.

[Slay Master G]

That's a good way to put it down.

I'd prefer to side with the assessment of it that I saw, and that Cricinfo also strangely agreed with.



No doubt that run-out changed the game, but it wasn't a shot at the stumps.

As for fielding, all players in 1st class cricket in Aus are more than competent fielders, the debate rages about who is more likely to produce a matchwinning performance...?

Watson is not a matchwinner.

[cold toaster]

No doubt that run-out changed the game, but it wasn't a shot at the stumps.

Why is it that others don't agree with you?


As for fielding, all players in 1st class cricket in Aus are more than competent fielders, the debate rages about who is more likely to produce a matchwinning performance...?

Watson is not a matchwinner.

I guess it is odd he's got a few MOTM awards then.

Oh well.

[Slay Master G]

I guess it is odd he's got a few MOTM awards then.

Oh well.


I'm not talking about warm up games in Malaysia or against Bangladesh.

Important ODIs are big games against big teams.

He is always our worst player in losses too. He never gives a whimper.

[cold toaster]

I'm not talking about warm up games in Malaysia or against Bangladesh.


He hasn't won MOTM against Bangladesh, nor do you get MOTM awards in warm-up games.

Are you finished embarrassing yourself?


Important ODIs are big games against big teams.

Like the Champions Trophy?


He is always our worst player in losses too. He never gives a whimper.

That's odd. Against New Zealand he was among our best in 2 of the 3 losses.

As I said, are you finished embarrassing yourself?

Facts seems to be absent in your world.

[Slay Master G]

You don't get it do you.

Nobody is supporting Watson on here cos he has not performed as well as others who are not in the team.

We do not understand how he keeps getting a game in front of others

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I'm so tired of this sooky "conspiracy against Victorians" attitude, grow up people. Hodge is a good player, and has been in decent form lately, but he's not ahead of Hayden, Hussey, Symonds or Clarke, and obviously not ahead of Ponting or Gilchrist. The only arguement i can understand is that he should probably have been in the side ahead of Watson, but then Watson was crucial last night, so it's not a selection i disagree with now.

[cold toaster]

You don't get it do you.

Nobody is supporting Watson on here cos he has not performed as well as others who are not in the team.

We do not understand how he keeps getting a game in front of others

So I've so convincingly creamed you in every aspect of the facts that you are now resorting to claiming I 'don't get it'.

You're done like Christmas dinner. Move along.

[frankrizzo]

Hodge is in good form but so are the rest.

it's a case of last in first out which happens in great teams.

Hodge needs to wait like hussey did and take what comes his way.

[frankrizzo]

Also as far as i can tell watson seems to be in the side more a a 4th seamer so comparing him to a number 4 like hodge is pointless.

hodge is in a battle with clarke for a spot not watson.

[leeami]

Hayden is a proven matchwinner over many years.

As are Symonds, Clarke and Hussey.

Hodge has won Australia the game in his only opportunity v NZ at the the MCG

The only weak link in the team is Watson. He is the only player in the Australian squad not capable of making a matchwinning impact.

PLEASE DROP HIM, PLEASE.

Only one wicket, but his ER was the lowest of all the bowlers last night. 65 not out from 32 balls (SR of 203) with 4 6's thrown in there for good measure.

Yes, weak, weak link. "Drop him now".

:rolleyes: :(

[RoosterLad]

His late order hitting was amazing, I have never ever seen Watson play so well.

[leeami]

It's great Watson's back in the side for this stage of the game. He's missed out on a lot these last couple of years.

Yeah, that knock of his was amazing.
:thumbsu:

[bushranger]

hodge is awesome

they need to drop hussey he is so out of form my side for the first test this year

Hayden
Watson
Ponting
Clake
Hodge
Hussey
Haddin
White
Lee
Tait
Hilfenhaus

[ALwaysNorth]

hodge is awesome

they need to drop hussey he is so out of form my side for the first test this year

Hayden
Watson
Ponting
Clake
Hodge
Hussey
Haddin
White
Lee
Tait
Hilfenhaus

Teehee , Clarke is not a #4 and Watson is not a Test Opener , you also have no spinner in the team and are a bowler short ?

[bushranger]

white dumbass

[ALwaysNorth]

white dumbass


Oooohhh , so White is back to being an allrounder , at the last count he was a batsmen who bowled sometimes . How can you expect someone to keep up with what you believe White is when you keep changing his profile !!!!!!