England Middle Order Dilemma

[NYPomme]

With Ramprakash firmly out of the picture (surely!!!), I wonder who will be in pole position to replace him?

I'd be keen to see a positive minded selection of Knight to open ...with Vaughan filling in down the order - better still - I think the need to blood younger talent paramount.

Thorpe and Hussain will be 34 and 35 next summer, maybe selectors will look a little longer-term for replacements to these stalwarts. Can't help think that pursuing proven no-hopers isn't the best policy of preventing a crisis before it arises.

[BT]

Not sure what to make of England really.

I've seen a fair bit of their Indian tour on Foxtel. Blokes like Vaughan, Flintoff & Collingwood didn't look to bad but weren't convincing either. Foster the Keeper needs to lift his game with the bat He'd be batting at 10 if he was in the Aussie team.

I can't remember the test series as well but even there England appeared to have to many bits & pieces players (Craig White for example)

SA 5/230 45 ovs

[London Dave]

Vaughn will make a player...as will Flintoff. A guy called Bell (I think, a warwickshire lad) has big wraps on him from Marsh at the academy. There are a couple of others like him.

The poms have enough potential players, whether these guys have the necessary intestinal fortitude to make it remains to be seen, but the present brains trust seems a little more on the ball than some previous selection teams (Ted Dexter, Ray illingworth etc)

They are not going to keep on giving blokes antoher go. ramprakash is gone, and I personally dont have great hope in Butcher as a test class player. Keeping Trescothick, Hussain, Vaughn, Thorpe and Flintoff gives them 5 out of the top 7, and space to blood 2 bats in the next two seasons.

Foster is worth sticking with, although I wouldnt play him over Alec Stewart at present. He has shown a little ticker with the bat I reckon.

Knight is not up to it at test level I reckon, although I dont really see a lot of good openers domestically...needs a tighter technique but may be worth a go.

[The invisible mullet]

The very short term solution will be for Stewart to replace Ramprakash with another bowler coming in to replace Foster in the tail (and I agree Foster has been fairly gutsy with the bat). One of the worrying signs for England at the moment is the indifferent form of Marcus Trescothick. Maybe he is mentally drained as he suggested before the Kiwi tour - he certainy looked out of sorts in all but one of his innings. Vaughan looks fairly assured and deserves a few games at the top of the order. You have to wonder why Ussie Afzaal toured - it couldn't have been for his fielding.

[NYPomme]

Think you're being a little tough on Butch.

Although Stewie could still 'do a job' at test level - I'm not sure how his batting form would be affected if he had to keep too. I think he might find a 5 match series hard going. In any case - I think we need younger blood.

Point taken on Dexter and Illingworth. Couple of complete Muppets. Goes, at least some way, to explain how Shaun Udal, Tim Curtis, Greg Thomas and John Morris received England caps during those dark 'wilderness years'.

[Nightmare]

I hear you on the Nick Knight situ NYPomme, however then the order loses any semblence of balance - you have to drop one of the left handers if you are going to bring him in - Butcher? 180 odd n.o. against the convicts last year?, Tres. who could do with eating a few less sausages but is averaging nearly forty? or Thorpe who is the best player in the side?

I highly rate Ian Bell - he will surely tour Australia in the winter.

[Brett Li]

So I see the England batting remains a shaky as ever......

[Santos L Helper]

I still can't believe that anyone rates Flintoff. I stand by my recent statement that he is a hack. The future does not look bright for English cricket.

[Brett Li]

Agreed. Flintoff scores a quick-fire ton with no pressure on and a license to "have a swing" and all of a sudden he is the saviour of English Cricket. His bowling is okay, but as far as building the batting around him, you guys need to look a little further afield.

I can't believe how satisfied NYPomme and Booze Hound are when the team they are soooo proud of is rated as 5th best in the world (behind Sri Lanka & NZ). Wake up guys, where is your ambition? You don't want your Cricketers to become like your swimmers or tennis players now do you?

[NYPomme]

Also - I don't think anyone was suggesting building the batting around Freddy - just that he has proved he can play at test level.

With respect - I don't give a toss how our tennis players or our swimmers do. More concerned about where we figure in the international soccer and rugby union rankings (think we might figure about Oz in both sports)

Just don't think it's a national tragedy if England aren't No.1 in the world. Villify me ...go on!:D

[NYPomme]

Another point for your attention, Brett. I believe I was one who started the thread raising the issue that we will have a 'batting dilemma' if something isn't done. So not entirely patting myself on the back!

However I DO appreciate your comments! ;)

[Dippers Donuts]

Is Graeme Hick totally out of the picture these days?

Most overrated test cricketer in history surely.

[Brett Li]

You seem to forget Tim May and Greg Matthews.....

[London Dave]

Hick is G O N E forever. Hick was badly handled by the poms...he woulda been better off playing in NZ or Oz, but 20 20 hindsight is a wonderful thing....as for overated cricketers...there's a thread in the making there, and I'll nominated Mike Brearly as one!

I still reckon the poms have found a cricketer in Flintoff....whether he ultimately proves himself or not, time will tell, but he showed a bit of ticker over the winter.

Brett, i think you are going a little OTT...havent heard anyone here suggest Freddy is the savior of English cricket, just that he dhowed a bit of ticker and 'looked' like a test cricketer over the winter...I think they have finally figured out its pointless waiting for 'the new Botham', just as the Aussies waited for 'the new Bradman' all those years ago.

[NYPomme]

Re:


Most overrated test cricketer in history surely.


__________________
"We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language." Oscar Wilde

Greg Matthews, Tim May: affirmative

Jonty Rhodes, Dean Jones (yes - I'm serious), Mark Greatbatch

[NYPomme]

London Dave,

Hicks main problem was that he was denied test cricket in his formative first-class years. He was fresh on the scene, glorious, and full of confidence. I think his test career would have benefited had he, say, got his debut test century out of the way in his early twenties.

When he was finally selected (England require are pretty lengthy qualification cf. Australia ...Wessels, etc...) the pressure very much was on to fulfill on early promise.

I do agree, however, that he should have been dropped quicker.

[London Dave]

Funny, just been talking with me brother about overated test players....on the list mentioned so far

Tim May.....ordinary player, who had 2 good seasons when he was a test cricketer, not so rest of career....

Greg Matthews...my judgement is clouded cos I thought him a prat, but he was not an all rounder....ordinary bowler picked on the strength of his batting (which never made up for the runs and lack of wickets conceded by his straight breaks..and you could name a heap of players who fit that description)

Jonty Rhodes...far better ODI than test player, technically not a solid test level bat, but made himself into a decent player thru a bit of G & D. Bit like Bevan, his technical limitations are exposed at test level perhaps.....

Dean Jones....another one who arguably had a couple of seasons as a top flight player, tapering off at the end of his careeer... although I would rate him a good test level player, not in the top echelon, and would only be considered overated by anyone who would consider him one of the games greats.

Greatbatch....not overated in my eyes, always thought of him as just a cricketer...

Couple of other names to think about..

Mike Gatting...this guy was symptomatic of the ills of pommy cricket, had a couple of years in the mid 80's when he was a good player..79 tests, 35 ave = ordinary player

Alan Lamb...overated dud...his record bears it out. 79 tests, ave 36=ordinary player

these two make an interesting comparison with Hick...65 tests, ave 31.

[Brett Li]

Mike Gatting, yes, yes, yes. One good series followed by 7 bad ones.

I don't know where you are getting "overated" and "Mike Brearley in the same sentence though, London-Boy. Who ever said Brearley was a great player, not even his own mother I suspect.

Regarding the "Hick" question, I'm dying to know how Aus/NZ would have handled him?. Maybe told him Golf was a good game? :p

[Player]

Originally posted by London Dave
Greg Matthews...my judgement is clouded cos I thought him a prat, but he was not an all rounder....ordinary bowler picked on the strength of his batting (which never made up for the runs and lack of wickets conceded by his straight breaks..and you could name a heap of players who fit that description)


I remember the open hatred of 'Space man' when he was caught cheating in a ODI way back in the 80s. Prolly still clouds my judgement of him.


Originally posted by London Dave

Greatbatch....not overated in my eyes, always thought of him as just a cricketer...


Paddy Batch's test career went to pieces when it was found out that he couldn't play short pitch bowling, especially rising balls into the body. In the last few seasons his average fell from 55 to less than 30.

The first half of his test career was top shelf, as was his opening batting in the ODI thru out his career.

As for Hick he could have played for New Zealand, and averaged more than 90 during two seasons of New Zealand based first class cricket.

[Dipper]

Originally posted by Brett Li

I can't believe how satisfied NYPomme and Booze Hound are when the team they are soooo proud of is rated as 5th best in the world (behind Sri Lanka & NZ). Wake up guys, where is your ambition? You don't want your Cricketers to become like your swimmers or tennis players now do you?


Do people swim & play tennis in Britain?

As for being behind Sri Lanka I wouldn't acll it a disgrace.Sri Lanka is one of those asain countries where everyone is cricket mad & they've got one of the most devasting spinners ever (who may or may not have an illegal action).I'm telling you most kids in England wouldn't have a clue which end of the bat to hold-it's a minority sport over here these days.


LD,
As for Lamby check out his record against the fearsome Windies sides of the 80's.He put up a one man defence against them in the blackwash series of '84.You're right he isn't a great player as he was a shocking player of decent spin bowling but he was a great player of the pace men.It's funny but Robin Smith & Alec Srtewart are the same they were both pretty decent at taking on the quicks but shocking against spin.I can still see Stewart now on the back foot about to pull a short ball from Warne to the midwicket boundary & before he's even moved his bat he's bowled or LB to the flipper-the plank never learnt.And none of that 3 learnt the idea of playing spinners with soft hands.

Gatting was fat & over rated, the best of that 8-#s bunch was Gooch by a mile-he was a great player of the quicks a great player of spin he just ahd a (BIG) problem with the Terry Alderman's of this world.In fact I have it on good authority thatb the guy who ran onto the pitch at the WACA & smashed Alderman's shoulder up was Gooches brother;)

As for Hick he was mentally weak he would never have made the grade ever, the same as Ramprakash weak as p1ss.It's so stupid as well there's millions of things you can do to toughen up your mind, it's just that these buffoons are either too lazy or too scared to try.Somewhere in their subconscious they'd rather be a failure.I read that when he went to Queensland to play for them he was terrorised by the bowlers(his teammates)sledging him in the nets-it left him shellshocked-what a baby.He should have carted them back over their heads & told them to go f*** themselves-I mean to say he's about 6 foot 3 & pretty well built what's the point in letting these people dominate you?

Give me half of Hick's talent & I'd have a Test match average of about 80 cos you'd have to kill me if you wanted to get me out half the time:D 3

The Engalnd team has been plagued by quitters & cowards for too long now, it's a culture of weakness where average performances are the accepted thing.

It's like when Butcher played that innings last summer to win the 4 Test.All the England players are going mad at the end & the press hails it as a great innings BUT the series was lost the Aussies gave it a go for the first hour or two & then weren't really bothered & we all go bonkers like its VE day.Then all the papers are full of how Butcher has turned the corner-this is the same Butcher who averages in the low 30s from a fair number of Tests.For crying out loud the guy can't even catch regulation ones in the slips let alone make big Test match tons on a regular basis-if you'd looked at the sky that night you'd have seen it was a blue moon.


It'd be impossible for us to put out a top class middle order but what we can do is get some of these decent young fast bowlers find out who the toughest are (my money's on Kirby) & prime them up to take the Aussies on head to head in the Ashes series.Tell em to be as nasty as they can & hopefully they can all feed off each other & then our batting might be able to scrape enough runs if we keep the Aussie totals down.

Out of Gough,Caddick,Hoggard,Harmsion,Tudor & Kirby there is definitely the scope to cause a few problems to anyone but I bet they bloody well don't.(Unless Rod MArsh really is a miracle worker)

[Brett Li]

Dipper,

I have this wonderful picture in my head of the whole england bowling attack sitting in a cell with pictures of Justin Langer and Damien Martyn etc on the walls...receiving periodic electric shocks and snarling at each other. How did you envisage this "nastying-up" of the bowlers?

On the subject of "nasties" who were the best and worst sledgers (bowlers)?. In test cricket today, I have to rate Shaun Pollock as my top man in this area. examine the evidence: He is:
a) ginger
b) south african
c) quite good
d) not very nice to look at when mouthing obscenities in Afrikaans

your thoughts?

On the question of Allan Lamb, ok he was good against pace, but that only demonstrates how flawed his game was in other departments, as despite these West Indian "successes", he still only averaged 30-32 with the bat. Can't follow you on this one, sorry mate.

[Brett Li]

RE: Swimming and Tennis in the UK, I'm assuming nobody does. Which you must be pleased about?....????????

[clucas91]

England's middle order has not been strong for a while. Thorpe is always in and out of form, however Flintoff has a future.

[London Dave]

Brett, the point about Brearley is that he was/is still overated by some folks here....couldnt bat for crap, and built his "amazing" captaincy record against second raters when WSC was on. When he came up against a full strength side, he got creamed. I personally dont rate the bloke, but others do. Its a pommy thing (which they have only just got out of, I reckon), that the captain is picked before the team, not the team and then the captain.

[NYPomme]

First things first:

RE: Swimming and Tennis in the UK, I'm assuming nobody does. Which you must be pleased about?....????????


Brett,
Henman and Rudsedski both have/had top ten world rankings?
Just out of interest - how many other countries can boast 2 blokes in the top ten over the last year? Don't be a muppet!

Out of interest - how many soccer world cup finals' matches have australia won in their history? let's face it - if you're guys are not playing NZ, Fiji, or PNG - you guys are checking for the brown-stain!:D

World worst sledgers?

1. Rodney Marsh
2. Dennis Lillie
3. Jeff Thomson
4. Rodney Hogg
5. Mervyn Hughes

[NYPomme]

If test averages of 36 and 35 make Lamb and Gatting bad players - then how do these stats. compare?


Graeme Wood, 59 tests, av. 31.83
David Hookes, 23 tests, av. 34.36

Kim Hughes (former australian captain) averages just 1 test run above Lamb and Gatt. over his 70 test career.

Anyone able to lay their hands on GR ('Swampy') Marsh or Greg Ritchie's test records over a similar period? Can't seem to download from CricInfo - Aus. Prize for any aussie able to provide me with their test averages!

[London Dave]

NY Pommie, not saying they are 'bad' [layers, just some folks overate them. I'm not being anti pommy, but just naming a few bloke who in my experience, a lot of people overate as cricketers.

I wouldnt rate Wood above average test match player, like Lamb.

KJ Hughes is another a bit like Gatting, had a good couple of years, but was ordinary either side of it.....and a crap captain, hopefully the last time an Aussie skipper is picked because of a lot of pressure from his state assoc.

They wouldnt average above 35 I'd say.....

Marsh is an interesting case, only averaged 33ish, but got a lot of games (and was made VC) for the reason he was hard to get rid off, had a bit of guts, at a time when aussie cricket lacked players able to do that. I think once the aussies started to improve as a team in the early 90's, Marsh was dropped, never to return. I think the emergence of Slater pensioned him off, but I may be wrong here. If you classed him as a great player/dashing batsman, you'd be overating him, but as a guy with guts and as one who put a price on his wicket, he'd be high up on my list of players going round at that time.

In a sense, the fact that these guys got so many test matches for a (relatively) poor average (I take the benchmark of a good player ave 40+, very good 45+ and elite 50+) shows that the country was in poor state during the period they played.....would a guy like Wood get a game for Oz now?

[NYPomme]

So - London Dave - what you're saying is:

Geoff Marsh gets points for 'hanging around for a while' and showing 'guts' - while Alan Lamb - who averages 4 runs higher - gets short-shrift despite taking apart possibly the world's greatest fast-bowling battery.. and let's put a time frame on this...EVER ?

I refer to Messrs. Holding, Garner, Walsh, Marshall, and Ambrose.:confused:

[London Dave]

No, what I'm saying is Lamb was nothing more than an ordinary test player, who was good against the windies.

Marsh was an ordinary test level player.

My point re Marsh, which you dont seem to follow...
If someone rated him a top level test cricketer on his average, they would be overating him, but rating him as a GOOD test player in regard to having a bit of G & D, and selling his wicket dearly, they wouldnt imho.

Lamb averaged 34.41 v Windies...36.09 career, thats what i'd say is putting Marshall & co to the sword! Perhaps saying he was good against WI is overating him!

[red+black]

Originally posted by NYPomme
Henman and Rudsedski both have/had top ten world rankings?
Just out of interest - how many other countries can boast 2 blokes in the top ten over the last year? Don't be a muppet!


Well, Australia for starters. Rusedski, hmm, as English as your cricketers. And how many Grand Slams have the English won in say the past few years? When was Henman or Rusedski number one? When did you win the Davis Cup last?

Originally posted by NYPomme
Out of interest - how many soccer world cup finals' matches have australia won in their history? let's face it - if you're guys are not playing NZ, Fiji, or PNG

Keep believing England even register on the map for world football. Good luck without Owen and Beckham in the team. Geez, good luck even with them, cos everyone knows that England won't even come close to winning it.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be supporting England, but when they go out in the second round to France, I'll be thinking of you.

[Brett Li]

Red & Black,

Agreed the Poms are pretty suck at Swimming and Tennis, an ATP ranking is nothing to Championships (Grand Slams or Davis Cups). But I can't follow the whole Football line. I'm no soocer fan but haven't they won a World Cup (60's??), one of only 7 teams to do so (not forgetting this is a totally world sport!). I remember seeing the 1990 (?) World Cup in Italy when they were probably the best team there and lost in a narrow semi-fnial on penalties...who could forget Gazzas tears. A narrow defeat in the euro 96 on penalities to the eventual winners ( Germany) and outplaying the Argentinians with 10 men (last world cup)...I was in a pub in London, and I swear that Sol Campbell goal should have stood!!!!. I reckon Engalnd have an outside chance, with plenty of quality, lacking in alot of there other teams. Like I said I'm no soccer fan, but I see that you are. Tell me Red & Black can you share with BigFooty just what was going through your mind when the final whistle went and you looked up at the score board and saw that Iran had knocked the SoccerRoos out of the World Cup Qualifiers.....?????

[NYPomme]

R&B:

'Keep believing England even register on the map for world football. Good luck without Owen and Beckham in the team. Geez, good luck even with them, cos everyone knows that England won't even come close to winning it. '

Don't be a MUPPET!

1. England has won the World Cup
2. England has a far higher world ranking (over many, many years) than Australia (and most other countries)
3. As Brett Li points out - many close attempts in recent international tournaments
4. Most competitive national league...and let's introduce a geographical context......... ANYWHERE!
5. Greatest representation at latter stages of European Cup club tournament - with Liverpool and Man United having predominantly domestic players.
6. England has the European footballer of the year - Michael Owen.
7. We beat Germany (to educate yourself - you might want to check Germany's world cup pedigree!) 1-5 away from home to get to the finals.
8. We BLOODY invented the game

Australian Football!

1. You call yourself the Soccerroos
2. You got beaten by Iran
3. ......
4. ......sorry - not doing well here....help me....!

As for English tennis players, Um.... so you're saying you have the have the No.1 in the world to not cop stick about the quality of our players ....is that what you are saying? So ...like having 2 players in the Top. 10 (in a sport that is played the world over) is something to be ashamed of?

Maybe you should start using the 'Preview Reply' functionality on this site a little more often. It would save us a lot of effort correcting your inaccurate conclusions!:rolleyes:

[BT]

Originally posted by NYPomme
R&B:

'Keep believing England even register on the map for world football. Good luck without Owen and Beckham in the team. Geez, good luck even with them, cos everyone knows that England won't even come close to winning it. '

Don't be a MUPPET!

1. England has won the World Cup
2. England has a far higher world ranking (over many, many years) than Australia (and most other countries)
3. As Brett Li points out - many close attempts in recent international tournaments
4. Most competitive national league...and let's introduce a geographical context......... ANYWHERE!
5. Greatest representation at latter stages of European Cup club tournament - with Liverpool and Man United having predominantly domestic players.
6. England has the European footballer of the year - Michael Owen.
7. We beat Germany (to educate yourself - you might want to check Germany's world cup pedigree!) 1-5 away from home to get to the finals.
8. We BLOODY invented the game

Australian Football!

1. You call yourself the Soccerroos
2. You got beaten by Iran
3. ......
4. ......sorry - not doing well here....help me....!

As for English tennis players, Um.... so you're saying you have the have the No.1 in the world to not cop stick about the quality of our players ....is that what you are saying? So ...like having 2 players in the Top. 10 (in a sport that is played the world over) is something to be ashamed of?

Maybe you should start using the 'Preview Reply' functionality on this site a little more often. It would save us a lot of effort correcting your inaccurate conclusions!:rolleyes:

Welcome aboard NYP, you'll go allright on here ;).

[bunsen burner]

NYPomme: You are a muppet.

Not once has any Aussie said that we are any good at soccer.

Let's just lay down some facts here;

1) Soccer is our forth most popular type of football - behing AFL, League and Union. We don't do too bad considering NSL games are lucky to get a few thousand. On the other hand, soccer is head and shoulders above Union and League in England. I don't think you will offend many Aussies by bagging the socceroos - we are meant to be $hit. We know that we will never win a world cup.

2) Australia has a much superior record in cricket and tennis than England. Don't make me go dig the records up.

3) In recent years we have even been getting on top of you in the athletics dept. - which traditionally, Britain is much better.

4) Don't whinge at Aussies knocking you poms for your lack of sporting prowess. Your trashy tabloids don't know when too stop.

5) We whooped your a$$es at the last few Olympic and Commonwealth game.


I don't know why you wanted to take this argument on - England is so obviously inferior at sport than Australia. And let me remind you, your country has four times the population. Hang your head in shame.

[Dipper]

Originally posted by Brett Li
Dipper,

I have this wonderful picture in my head of the whole england bowling attack sitting in a cell with pictures of Justin Langer and Damien Martyn etc on the walls...receiving periodic electric shocks and snarling at each other. How did you envisage this "nastying-up" of the bowlers?[QUOTE]

EXACTLY!

LOL.

If that didn't work then I'd tell them that Steve Waugh ate their children/girlfriends/grannies & that Glenn McGrath sledged their mums in the supermarket.

If that didn't work then I'd smack them all accross their lazy arses with a lump of wood with nails sticking out.

Failing that I'd use the powrs of cloning & DNA science to bring back Douglas Jardine.

[QUOTE]
On the question of Allan Lamb, ok he was good against pace, but that only demonstrates how flawed his game was in other departments, as despite these West Indian "successes", he still only averaged 30-32 with the bat. Can't follow you on this one, sorry mate.

Well (without looking back at my previous & slightly deranged post) I thought that was the gist of what I was saying.The guy whilst never going down as anything close to a great Test match batsman was I believe a great player of pure pace bowling.
Also while averages give a pretty good reflection on a batsman's abilitis it should also be taken into account the strength of the side the bloke played most of his career with-it's goota be easier to raise your average in a stronger side than continually fight a lone battle with a bunch of no hopers.


In respect to the argument over the sporting prowess of our two countries I must say that i am in awe of & jealous of the Aussie sporting machine.It's a great template for any nation that aspires to do well in sport.

To me your blokes just seem tougher upstairs than ours in so many sports & to use the vernaculour it gives me the sh*ts.

But i think it's pushing it to say you are ahead of us in athletics is pushing it a bit-you'll win more medals than us in the Commonwealth games no worries but you won't win more athletics medals than us (not in the mens anyway & probably not in the women's either)

[Brett Li]

Anyway (cough) back to the cricket.......

[bunsen burner]

But i think it's pushing it to say you are ahead of us in athletics is pushing it a bit-you'll win more medals than us in the Commonwealth games no worries but you won't win more athletics medals than us (not in the mens anyway & probably not in the women's either)


You better check out the facts. In the last two Olympics and Commonwealths, the Aussies have done better than England/GB in athletics. Fact.

Traditionally, Australia are $hit and GB is good (Cram, Ovett, Coe, Christie), but in recent years GB has gone down hill. Sorry to burst your bubble, but go check out the record books - or better still, go buy a copy of one of your tabloids - they will tell you all about it.

[SeinDude]

What has happened to Ashley Giles and where does he sit in the England plans for the future??

He was one who played really well a couple of years ago in the sub-continent against Pakistan in that series win, yet in the Ashes last year he gets one game, gets slogged around by Adam Gilchrist (well he's not the only one!!) and we don't see him again for the remaining tests!!

It seems to me that England's biggest problem is keeping faith in your players. (Hick dropped 7 times is a perfect example) Surely there must be enough talented young players to give an opportunity to around the county scene and stick with them for more than one or two tests.

Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude

[NYPomme]

SeinDude - Giles is one of the 12 centrally contracted players for this summer. Therefore - in answer to you question - I would imagine he will figure fairly prominently this summer.

[NYPomme]

I had thought to let it slide - but you goaded me once too often Bunsen.

It is true we have done better in past Olympics - but stop talking crap about how your athletics is better than ours.

Sydney 2000 - Home turf for Australia
Men’s 100m Final
Dwain Chambers (GBR) Bronze (Darren Campbell, GBR, 6th) No aussies in final
Men’s 200m Final
Campbell (GBR) Silver, (Malcolm, GBR, 5th) No aussies final
Men’s 400m Final
Neither country had finalists
Men’s 800m Final
Neither country had finalists
Men’s 1500m Final
John Mayock (GBR) 8th no aussies in final
Men’s 10,000 Final
Keska (GBR) 7th no aussies in final
Marathon
Jim Brown (GBR) 4th no aussies in final
110m Hurdles Final
Jackson (GBR) 5th no aussies in final
Triple Jump
John Edwards (GBR) Gold
GBR Also had 5th and 6th placed guys too in final

Relays
4X100m – GBR dropped batton – but had 2nd fastest squad – Australia - of course -never made the final in either relay.

On the plus side for Australia - Messrs. Taurima, Tsistjakov, and Mr. Markov of Australia (are they Queenslander's or NSW-men?)managed to complete 2nd , two 5th places between them in the field events. I guess it must have worth all that paperwork at the Australian immigration office.

I'm not even mentioning the likes of Mr. Black, Christie, Coe, Jackson, Cram, Thompson, Ovett, Elliot, McKean, Wells, Moorcroft, Foster, Regis, Akabusi, ...........shall I continue?

Don't be a complete MUPPET!:rolleyes:

[NYPomme]

Sydney 2000 - Women's

I think the world respects the Cathy Freeman story - I would be the first the congratulate her on her performance - however you might wish to recall the following performances in Sydney 2000.

Hepthalon - Denise Lewis - GOLD
400M - Merry - Bronze (Donna Fraser 4th)
800m Kelly Holmes - Bronze

and finally - my favourite - Paula Radcliffe - who can forget her effort in the 10,000m to split the Ethiopians. Gutsiest bit of front-running I've ever seen!


Bunsen - let's all try to forgive and forget what you said - and get back to the cricket - eh?

Don't be a complete MUPPET!
:rolleyes:

[Brett Li]

ha ha ha ha my sides are splitting.

Mat Shirvington needs injections to run 200 metres...and finish 34th.

btw. can't you get Darren Clarke out of his rocking chair and dress him up as Batman for the world Cup circuit?.

[NYPomme]

...yeah - and check Dean 'I'm not a cheat' Capobianco out drug rehab for the relay!
:rolleyes:

btw: Swashbuckling Matt Shirvington just won the sprint crown in the Aussie national finals ......in a time of 10.31 secs.

I do believe that my highschool record is quicker than that....:D

(DON'T WORRY - I'M DEFINITELY GONNA CHECK THE RECORDS BOOKS ON THAT ONE - BUNSEN) :eek:

I might be being unfair on poor Matt - I've not confirmed whether he had an egg and spoon in his hand at the time.

Further to your remarks re: the English tabloids over-rating our domestic talent- your national broadcasting company ran the headline :

'Shirvo shines in Brisbane' - to describe a time of 10.31. Hmmmm...!

Just to put this into perspective - in Edmonton 2001 - an 18 year old Brit , Mark Lewis-Francis ran 9.97. I guess the future of GBR track and field looks grim with Junior Records like that! :confused: :confused: :confused: (For those who are confused by the relative figures - Shirvo has about 10 metres to go before he gets into the same finish-line camera shot!)


C'mon - c'mon - let's get back to the cricket - we're missing the opportunity to crap on about Nasser Hussain - and other whinging pommies - who can't play short-pitched stuff, haven't got the stomach for a fight, don't like it up 'em, can't make the hard yards, lack substance, over-rate themselves, are a nation of quitters, can't hack the sledging ...............ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

[red+black]

Originally posted by Brett Li
Red & Black,

But I can't follow the whole Football line. I'm no soocer fan but haven't they won a World Cup (60's??), one of only 7 teams to do so (not forgetting this is a totally world sport!). I remember seeing the 1990 (?) World Cup in Italy when they were probably the best team there and lost in a narrow semi-fnial on penalties...who could forget Gazzas tears. A narrow defeat in the euro 96 on penalities to the eventual winners ( Germany) and outplaying the Argentinians with 10 men (last world cup)...I was in a pub in London, and I swear that Sol Campbell goal should have stood!!!!. I reckon Engalnd have an outside chance, with plenty of quality, lacking in alot of there other teams. Like I said I'm no soccer fan, but I see that you are. Tell me Red & Black can you share with BigFooty just what was going through your mind when the final whistle went and you looked up at the score board and saw that Iran had knocked the SoccerRoos out of the World Cup Qualifiers.....?????

I was studying in Sheffield when the game was on and didn't really follow it. If I was here, I would have been pretty upset. And direct qualification to Germany 2006 won't make me happy either.

England barely have an outside chance.

PS: Gazza can go and get *****ed, he's a twat.

[red+black]

Originally posted by NYPomme
R&B:

'Keep believing England even register on the map for world football. Good luck without Owen and Beckham in the team. Geez, good luck even with them, cos everyone knows that England won't even come close to winning it. '

Don't be a MUPPET!

1. England has won the World Cup
2. England has a far higher world ranking (over many, many years) than Australia (and most other countries)
3. As Brett Li points out - many close attempts in recent international tournaments
4. Most competitive national league...and let's introduce a geographical context......... ANYWHERE!
5. Greatest representation at latter stages of European Cup club tournament - with Liverpool and Man United having predominantly domestic players.
6. England has the European footballer of the year - Michael Owen.
7. We beat Germany (to educate yourself - you might want to check Germany's world cup pedigree!) 1-5 away from home to get to the finals.
8. We BLOODY invented the game

1. yes, well done.
2. England will always have a very strong ranking, and always miles ahead of Australia. I never said otherwise.
3. yes, very frustrating. 4-0 against scotland in Euro 96 was a smashing game.
4. no argument there. i argued constantly with the Italians at my school.
5. liverpool and man u both have great histories.
6. even i, a liverpool supporter since i was 5, think that he was very lucky to win that.
7. against an underdone German team, England (well Liverpool actually (Owen, Gerrard, Heskey)) whipped the krauts. and to educate YOURSELF, it was an injury time freekick by Beckham against Greece that actually got England to the finals, not the 5-1 result.
8. and therefore should have had more success.

[Brett Li]

I'm confused. Is this a Cricket chatroom?......

[red+black]

yes it is. checking back through the thread, i believe it was NYPomme that got us going on the wrong track. I have merely responded to people's questions and arguments. I'll desist.

[Dipper]

NY Pomme is a stirrer-LOL

[NYPomme]

Much as I'd love to be WRONG - Brett - you were the one who started it.

Brett Li:

'I can't believe how satisfied NYPomme and Booze Hound are when the team they are soooo proud of is rated as 5th best in the world (behind Sri Lanka & NZ). Wake up guys, where is your ambition? You don't want your Cricketers to become like your swimmers or tennis players now do you?'

This was followed by a few banal anti-Brit, self-congratulatory posts.

Also checked out the chat on 'Sick of Cricket' thread on cricket 'channel - and Brett - you're at it again. You're talking about NBA!!!!

Where have all the cricket fans gone - or have we all lost interest without an England loss or an Aussie run-chase to crap on about?

:D

Sorry to Stir - Dips ;)

[Brett Li]

Don't get your knickers in a twist Bunyip.

[red+black]

Originally posted by NYPomme
Much as I'd love to be WRONG - Brett - you were the one who started it.

Yeah, I probably missed that.

Let's leave this thread to die gracefully.

[Dipper]

Originally posted by NYPomme

Sorry to Stir - Dips ;)

It's ok keep it up it's all good fun.


PS I've just spotted your signature-hehe.Can't believe Campo said that, getting off on another subject that will probably end up in me copping some grief-his knock on in the 1991 World Cup final was INTENTIONAL & should have resulted in a penalty try for us how the ref didn't give it I will never know.He was in no position to make an interception it was a blatant intentional knock forward.We wuz robbed!:mad:

[Basil Fawlty]

Hello all,

It's a jolly shame that we haven't been able to match it with the Aussies in the last few years, but hopefully things wlll happen with such a fine young player in Trescothick opening the batting for us.

Anyway, must be off now.

Regards,
Basil Fawlty
Fawlty Towers

[Brett Li]

Are you trying to be funny?

[Renegade]

I still can't believe that anyone rates Flintoff. I stand by my recent statement that he is a hack. The future does not look bright for English cricket.
Seeing as though everyone's enjoying bringing up old posts, let's point and laugh at Santos L Helper after this ripping comment. :D

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

********ing Hell, Basil Fawlty and Fawlty Towers

that is one funny show.

[SouthSwans]

Seeing as though everyone's enjoying bringing up old posts, let's point and laugh at Santos L Helper after this ripping comment. :D
Poor bloke. What a horribly backfirial post.

[Unwritten_Law]

Hahaha I take it Basil Fawlty was one of Seindude's pathetic alias' :o