View Full Version : Has a coach ever been sacked mid-match before?
If it wasn't clear before that Pagan has absolutely no idea what he is doing, today should absolve any doubts.
Whitnall, the most out of form player in the competition, matched up on Lucas, the most in-form forward. 8 marks and 2 goals at quarter time (and it could have been 5 goals).
If Pratt is tolerating this, he isn't dead-set in his committment to the club. The Navy Blue jumper is being disgraced before our very eyes. I wonder what Barry Mitchell is doing this afternoon?
mediumsizered
14 Apr 2007, 15:46
If it wasn't clear before that Pagan has absolutely no idea what he is doing, today should absolve any doubts.
Whitnall, the most out of form player in the competition, matched up on Lucas, the most in-form forward. 8 marks and 2 goals at quarter time (and it could have been 5 goals).
If Pratt is tolerating this, he isn't dead-set in his committment to the club. The Navy Blue jumper is being disgraced before our very eyes. I wonder what Barry Mitchell is doing this afternoon?
Have to agree it was a ridiculous move putting Whitnall on Lucas. Barry Mitchell isn't the answer though, we need a better coach than him.
Just to add to that, has anyone ever retired mid-match before?
Whitnall = done
Goes off the ground, and all of sudden we're back in touch. No surprise that playing 1 man down for the first quarter and we got smashed.
Doesn't change Pagan's situation though. Coaches need to know who their best 22 are, and Whitnall ain't in it
AndyWalkersGirl
14 Apr 2007, 16:10
Before we talk about a coach getting sacked, i think he needs to work his butt off and fix our performace.
DROP PLAYERS IF THEY ARE NOT UP TO IT> I dont care who they are, if they're not playing well, drop them.
Look at Essendon, they have played their kids and they're killing us. Look at Collingwood last night - three new kids played and played very well.
Where is our pressure? Is anyone home today?
Pagan doesn't trust young players like Malthouse or Matthews do. Rather than challenging them to perform and nuturing their talents, he forces them to sit on the bench until they prove themselves.
Reason number 23456 why he should have been sacked in the off-season. Spilt milk maybe, but the half time interval should be more than long enough to find a replacement from the stands.
sticks74
14 Apr 2007, 16:15
Pagan doesn't trust young players like Malthouse or Matthews do. Rather than challenging them to perform and nuturing their talents, he forces them to sit on the bench until they prove themselves.
Reason number 23456 why he should have been sacked in the off-season. Spilt milk maybe, but the half time interval should be more than long enough to find a replacement from the stands.
No time like the present...Give him the arse...
Fancy putting Whitnal on Lucas!
This new hand in the back rule is going to kill our game...
i don;t think a coach has ever been sacked mid game, but i've seen plenty of supporter panic and overreact.
AndyWalkersGirl
14 Apr 2007, 16:26
I dont think the cries will be coming to sack him just yet. BUT he needs to make drastic changes next week.
Good to see we have the momentum with us. only 30 points down.
ha. 'only.'
btdg: - Pagan doesn't trust young players like Malthouse or Matthews do. Rather than challenging them to perform and nuturing their talents, he forces them to sit on the bench until they prove themselves.
That is what frustrates me the most with Pagan. Very well said.
i don;t think a coach has ever been sacked mid game, but i've seen plenty of supporter panic and overreact.
That might be a fair call by games end.
But Whitnall on Lucas was still unforgiveable - should have been sacked just for that. My hairdresser wouldn't have been stupid enough to make that coaching error...
But Whitnall on Lucas was still unforgiveable - should have been sacked just for that. My hairdresser wouldn't have been stupid enough to make that coaching error...
what about whitnall into the ruck, thornton on to lucas or walker into the midfield? were they the moves your hairdresser would have made?
win, lose or draw, eat your humble pie mate.
red+black
14 Apr 2007, 17:53
LOL, you won. Relax!
AndyWalkersGirl
14 Apr 2007, 18:05
I am so so happy that I was proved wrong by Dennis, by the club and by the players today :)
:thumbsu:
sticks74
14 Apr 2007, 18:06
Ill shut up about Pagan and Whitnal for the rest of the year i promise...
TheReason
14 Apr 2007, 18:09
If it wasn't clear before that Pagan has absolutely no idea what he is doing, today should absolve any doubts.
Premature Eject :thumbsu:
Just as well Pagan wasn't sacked during the game.
We might have lost. :p
People, please remember:
A GAME OF FOOTBALL HAS FOUR QUARTERS, NOT JUST ONE !!!
Remember that.
wazzabp
14 Apr 2007, 18:33
If it wasn't clear before that Pagan has absolutely no idea what he is doing, today should absolve any doubts.
Whitnall, the most out of form player in the competition, matched up on Lucas, the most in-form forward. 8 marks and 2 goals at quarter time (and it could have been 5 goals).
If Pratt is tolerating this, he isn't dead-set in his committment to the club. The Navy Blue jumper is being disgraced before our very eyes. I wonder what Barry Mitchell is doing this afternoon?
Hello. Are you there?:p :D
mediumsizered
14 Apr 2007, 18:47
Ill shut up about Pagan and Whitnal for the rest of the year i promise...
We will be holding you to that. In fact, from now on every time you knock them might have to be worth an infraction. Seriously, though I think we were all feeling gutted after that first quarter & to the the credit of Pagan & the 22 players they produced the goods when needed.
TorresIsGod
14 Apr 2007, 19:07
This thread is just as good, if not better than the "All over at QTR Time" thread
Well said :rolleyes:
Get rid of Pagan!
Any coach who can get their team up from 8 goals down late in the 2nd quarter is clearly too good to coach in this modern era of footy ... he's making Sheedy look bad for *** sake! :p
ShlomoGlickstein
14 Apr 2007, 19:41
If it wasn't clear before that Pagan has absolutely no idea what he is doing, today should absolve any doubts.
Whitnall, the most out of form player in the competition, matched up on Lucas, the most in-form forward. 8 marks and 2 goals at quarter time (and it could have been 5 goals).
If Pratt is tolerating this, he isn't dead-set in his committment to the club. The Navy Blue jumper is being disgraced before our very eyes. I wonder what Barry Mitchell is doing this afternoon?
Bloody hell! Some would say I was bad!
Lucky I wasn't near the internet until well after the game! But I can totally see yr point. It seems Dennis does those kind of things to sort of 'punish' out of form players back into form (like he did with Fev against the Aints a few years back). Sure all is forgiven now that we won, but proves how backwards some of his thinking really is.
Bluebear
14 Apr 2007, 20:58
Bloody hell! Some would say I was bad!
Lucky I wasn't near the internet until well after the game! But I can totally see yr point. It seems Dennis does those kind of things to sort of 'punish' out of form players back into form (like he did with Fev against the Aints a few years back). Sure all is forgiven now that we won, but proves how backwards some of his thinking really is.
I doubt that very much.
You'll be back next loss.
So if we are supposed to sack him for our first half..........does he get a contract extension for the biggest comeback in our clubs history?
No? .........oh thats right, he is only responsible when we lose......its the players that take the credit when we win.;)
sticks74
14 Apr 2007, 23:44
We will be holding you to that. In fact, from now on every time you knock them might have to be worth an infraction. Seriously, though I think we were all feeling gutted after that first quarter & to the the credit of Pagan & the 22 players they produced the goods when needed.
So great to see...
I guess when youve been down for a while you start thinking negitive...
I was just so frustrated (Dog and Mrs left the house during the second term)
So great to see...
I guess when youve been down for a while you start thinking negitive...
I was just so frustrated (Dog and Mrs left the house during the second term)
don't worry mate, i doubt that anyone will hold anything against you.
Big John
15 Apr 2007, 04:25
I have to say a few things. Great win by you boys today, you seem to have it over us no matter what the situation, but i can't believe how many 'fans' have been calling for Pagan's head. I would rate Pagan as a great coach. He might not have the tactics of a Wallace or an Eade(0 priemerships), but i feel he will really pressure the young blueboys into being the best footballers they can be which if managed properly might lead to some finals success(i hope not). Despite all the fads old school hard at it football is what wins during finals and Pagan is one of the best at coaching this.
edit: little add on, personal hate of mine, can't believe some on this board rate Cam Cloke. He does seem to find a bit of the ball since starting with you guys, but seriously has the guy learnt to kick yet. With him as a ruckman you guys aren't going to move very far.
The Grover
15 Apr 2007, 08:35
Like a few other posters in this thread I was ropeable with Pagan in the first half.
My comment was he is the most conservative coach in the AFL, he doesn't try new things or new players.
In the last quarter I turned to my mate & said I owe Denis an apology.
The move of Lance into the ruck was a winner, it may also be useable again depending on opposition.
Finally freeing up Walker to play midfield & forward.
I still believe our forward line & ruck are our biggest weaknesses at present, therefore we need to rotate different personnel through there, and play Hampson before seasons end.
The Old Dark Navy's
15 Apr 2007, 09:41
can't believe some on this board rate Cam Cloke. He does seem to find a bit of the ball since starting with you guys, but seriously has the guy learnt to kick yet. With him as a ruckman you guys aren't going to move very far.We will have to agree to disagree here. Cloke has shown so far this year, and ability to spot up teammates in the clear 50 metres away. He is a booming kick and that often catches out the opposition. Sure he might not be pinpoint over short distances, not too many big men are for that matter, but kicking is not something that has concerned me about Cam.
Bluebear
15 Apr 2007, 12:31
We will have to agree to disagree here. Cloke has shown so far this year, and ability to spot up teammates in the clear 50 metres away. He is a booming kick and that often catches out the opposition. Sure he might not be pinpoint over short distances, not too many big men are for that matter, but kicking is not something that has concerned me about Cam.
Strong mark around the ground too which our ruck stocks have been lacking. We don't have great tap ruckmen, but they contest at ground level very well, and are not often beaten around the ground.
Funkalicous
15 Apr 2007, 12:37
People, please remember:
A GAME OF FOOTBALL HAS FOUR QUARTERS, NOT JUST ONE !!!
Remember that.
Tell the players that. The s*** they served up in the first quarter was an absolute disgrace!
Glad they bounced back, but I'm not gonna take back my sentiments from the first half.
The Old Dark Navy's
15 Apr 2007, 12:51
Tell the players that. The s*** they served up in the first quarter was an absolute disgrace!
Glad they bounced back, but I'm not gonna take back my sentiments from the first half.As Bluebear has pointed out elsewhere, that first quarter margin was greatly exaggerated by some wildy inconsistent umpiring. Two goal turnarounds were commonplace and then another gift right after a Bomber goal when Scotland touched Monfries face. We were under the pump for sure but we were never allowed to get into stride early.
Bluebear
15 Apr 2007, 13:06
As Bluebear has pointed out elsewhere, that first quarter margin was greatly exaggerated by some wildy inconsistent umpiring. Two goal turnarounds were commonplace and then another gift right after a Bomber goal when Scotland touched Monfries face. We were under the pump for sure but we were never allowed to get into stride early.
All the swings and roundabouts of footy..........they got gifted a lead, but had they kicked straight they would have earned it.
Would we have won had they only been 2-3 goals up at quarter or half time?
Would that margin have produced the intensity we saw in the second half?
Did the bad decisions stir the players - us vs all of them (including the umps).....seige mentality........
Would it have just been a boring 4-5 goal win top the Dons had none of this occurred in the first half........who knows.
As has been pointed out (on the Dons board I think......maybe by a Lions fan?)...........it was a cracking match, in spite of.....and maybe partly because of the shocking umpiring bias.........set the scene for a great drama...............in which the hero vanquished the villain (yet again :D )
Funkalicous
15 Apr 2007, 13:13
As Bluebear has pointed out elsewhere, that first quarter margin was greatly exaggerated by some wildy inconsistent umpiring. Two goal turnarounds were commonplace and then another gift right after a Bomber goal when Scotland touched Monfries face. We were under the pump for sure but we were never allowed to get into stride early.
Come on, ODN. Essendon were first to the ball at every single contest. It's no surprise that they would be getting all the frees.
I hope Dennis went off at the boys at quarter time.
The Old Dark Navy's
15 Apr 2007, 13:26
Come on, ODN. Essendon were first to the ball at every single contest. It's no surprise that they would be getting all the frees. They had faster legs for sure. However the decisions brought up were not reflective of being first to the ball. The non-free to Lappin, Johnson was behind. The non-free to Whitnall that Lucas goaled from, Lucas was behind. If we were talking in the back free kicks or high contact free kicks, you would have a point. The short kick in (did it go 15?). The Bombers missed a few they should have got, one of which was a Lucas behind after a mark that definitely went less than 15. The gift second kick against Scotland. We would have probably been down by 3 goals anyway but we wouldn't be calling it a pathetic quarter with that margin.
Bluebear has a point though. The size of the deficit certainly made our players angry and provided plenty of motivation. After a comeback like that, there would be a resolve not to let it slip in the dying moments. Coming back from 3 goals down in the first quarter, doesn't have the same ring to it and might not have clicked us into gear.
Stringing together 11 goals out of 12 at one point, we would have felt invincible.
I hope Dennis went off at the boys at quarter time.He certainly did judging by the TV footage at the huddle. I often miss seeing Parko's bulging jugular in our huddles. Wouldn't mind seeing more if it from Pagan.
Ha-ha - glad I made this thread now!
But in all seriousness, our first quarter was disgraceful, and you CANNOT blame the umpiring for that display. If anything, we should have been further behind, as Essendon missed several easy shots for goal. And Whitnall on Lucas was just a stupid mistake, that almost cost us hugely (which was what set me off).
Come the second half, its arguable Sheedy coached even worse than Pagan. Left Michael on Fev way too long, and for some reason rotated Flether and Laycock at full forward, when he had Lucase and Lloyd available and dominant. Failed to match up Whitnall when he went into the ruck, left Ryder in the ruck in the last quarter even though he was just whacking his hitouts wildy and not to advantage - I could go on. Of course, Sheedy is a protected species and you won't hear any criticism there, but its more than arguable that he cost his team the game (along with their own poor kicking for goal).
To his credit, Pagan made some great moves during the game (although some could have been done much earlier - posters on here have been calling for them for weeks). Whitnall to the ruck was obvious, as was Lappin forward. Stevens to the forward line also worked as it minimised his lack of accountability, and Thornton onto Lucas was great.
The Old Dark Navy's
15 Apr 2007, 14:46
But in all seriousness, our first quarter was disgraceful, and you CANNOT blame the umpiring for that display. If anything, we should have been further behind, as Essendon missed several easy shots for goal.People look at the margin at quarter time and look at the Bomber misses and overreact completely IMO. The fact is the umpires had a huge bearing on that margin and let's not forget that Fev totally shanked a couple in that first quarter as well. Make it all fair and square and it goes from a disgraceful quarter to a disappointing quarter.
People look at the margin at quarter time and look at the Bomber misses and overreact completely IMO. The fact is the umpires had a huge bearing on that margin and let's not forget that Fev totally shanked a couple in that first quarter as well. Make it all fair and square and it goes from a disgraceful quarter to a disappointing quarter.
Have to disagree on that. You just cannot blame the umpiring in that situation. When one team is dominating, getting to the ball first and has all the matchups in their favour, they always get the umpiring decisions their way - thats an on-going truth in football. 39 points in a quarter is way beyond disappointing.
Sheedy's arrogance in throwing Fletcher up forward in time on of the 2nd qtr was the turning point for mine.
Such an awesome win, will never forget this one!
Aussie Joe
15 Apr 2007, 14:58
The Blues of old are on the way back.
Looks like that we only start to play footy in the "premiership" quarters.:D
AndyWalkersGirl
15 Apr 2007, 15:13
Come on, ODN. Essendon were first to the ball at every single contest. It's no surprise that they would be getting all the frees.
I hope Dennis went off at the boys at quarter time.
Compared to Sheedy, it looked like Dennis was going to kill the boys at 3/4 time :)
The Old Dark Navy's
15 Apr 2007, 15:33
Have to disagree on that. You just cannot blame the umpiring in that situation. When one team is dominating, getting to the ball first and has all the matchups in their favour, they always get the umpiring decisions their way - thats an on-going truth in football. 39 points in a quarter is way beyond disappointing.I gave specific examples of umpiring decisions that had NOTHING to do with who was first to the ball. I'd at least expect any rebuttal to address those points. No point in building an argument if it can be dismissed with rhetoric.
I gave specific examples of umpiring decisions that had NOTHING to do with who was first to the ball. I'd at least expect any rebuttal to address those points. No point in building an argument if it can be dismissed with rhetoric.
But I'm not arguing that every umpiring decision was correct, so I don't have to address specific examples. But for arguments sake, the examples you gave were both decisisons that weren't paid against opposition forwards. Its been a fairly common observation that the new push in the back free kick rules have been paid more often against defenders, and forwards have had it a bit easier. Were the decisions correct - no, but they were reasonably consistent with how the rule has been paid this year (another example of how crap the rule is).
Plus, there are other factors that dictate why teams that are dominating get more free kicks. One aspect is that their crowd support is louder, and umpires get sucked in, especially when its the dominant team running down the wing (crowd builds), kick goes inside 50 (crowd gets louder), mark taken by forward who pushes off (crowd roars) - its easy to see why the umpire misses that one, given it was such a fast-paced game, and its always a split second decision in that case.
The fact is, Essendon dominated possession in the first quarter, dominated the scoring chances, and got a few things go their way. We compounded that by playing extremely poorly, and making a couple of completely ludicrous match-up choices. Had they kicked as you would expect them to (well, Lucas anyway), things could have been a lot worse (50 pts instead of 39).
And even if you take away the two examples you cited as goals to Essendon - 27 points is still a disgraceful quarter - it adds up to 104 points for the match!
All of which makes the comeback even more remarkable (and enjoyable!)
Tell the players that. The s*** they served up in the first quarter was an absolute disgrace!
Glad they bounced back, but I'm not gonna take back my sentiments from the first half.
They did, but for some people considering sacking Pagan when the game isn't even over yet, now come on.
Bluebear
15 Apr 2007, 19:02
So let me just make sure I understand the argument here.
Unless the PLAYERS come out and are switched on every quarter all of the time......the COACH should be sacked..........:rolleyes:
Great thread.......very sensible........can't believe I've been so blind about this.:rolleyes:
You are all very logical, sensible people and have nothing to be embarrassed about.:o :p
gadj1976
15 Apr 2007, 22:30
the title of the thread should be : how to make a complete goose of yourself in one easy lesson.
The good part about this year, is that even when we were behind, heads didn't drop, and they didn't panic. In previous seasons, that would've been a 120 point drubbing. I like the spirit they are showing. Games are played over 4 quarters, not 1. You don't rip your betting slip up if your horse is at the tail of the field 1000 out from home!
Has anyone been sacked from posting on the Carlton board for making hysterical statements?