Essendon forwards

[DonMania#5]

Not a troll.
Just interested to hear your opinions on who you think will match up on:
Matthew Lloyd
Scott Lucas
Courtney Johns (90% will play)

[Leoni 5-10]

Fisher on Lloyd
Blake on Lucas
anyone on Johns

[Saint Corin]

I think Essendon will win...

But we have had games when Roo has kicked 9 and we've still lost...

Lloyd and Lucas might kick 10 between them, doesn't mean they will win though.
Its about minimising the damamge, more than stopping them (I don't think we can)...

We'll run hard into the backline, and choke their leads, and put pressure so their delivery is crap.

Dons by less than 30 though.

[bfra]

I'm a bit more optimistic.

I think our midfield will beat their midfield and will greatly reduce their forward entries (and quality of) and help our defense.

Saints by 25+

[Kildonan]

For a while now Sheedy has been recruiting for and coaching the Bombers with a goal in mind. He has been trying to put together a team of speedsters. He isn't the only one - Chocko has a plan with similar goals. Wallace and Eade have generationally contributed to speedy Bulldogs and Richmond is now feeling the effect of Wallace's influence.

Sheedy's gameplan is to capitalise on the speedsters without forgoing the powerful forwards at his disposal. With Mal Michael to bolster their defence and the impressive Ryder holding down CHB - Dustin Fletcher is freed to do more damage than most anticipate.

Whilst Sydney have a few fleet of foot, they haven't put together a team of speedy outside players. They have a team of disciplined, highly skilled players. Their game plan is to maintain possession and starve the opposition of opportunities often forcing them to rush their approaches to goal whilst patiently taking the best of their own opportunities to keep the scoreboard ticking over.

Ross Lyon is not a Roos clone. He has his own views (and tactics) on how the game should be played. He has a plan too. He has taken the creativity of some of the Saints star players and tried to harness that into a more disciplined approach. He is new. The players have had but a preseason and a few real matches to learn their gameplan. They have not had anything approaching the whole list playing together yet.

Already Leigh Matthews has seen through Lyon and, with a team full of kids, engineered a win. Lyon is on a steep learning curve. He knows that even without a full list - he has the personnel to beat most clubs - if he gets the gameplan right. Much of the gameplan relies on the tackling pressure of the midfield and halfbacks and the work rate of all of the players. It also requires skill - where our players with the best disposal are given more of the ball.

How will we play against the cocky young Essendon lineup?
Their forwards will pick us to pieces if they get enough supply - so will we try and prevent their supply from being adequate by dominating in the midfield?

The game will be won and lost in the midfield - not in Essendon's forward line.

Last week Essendon failed to overcome Carlton's midfield.
To me - this is a good sign for the Saints.
Sure our midfield is depleted without Luke and with Lenny still on the road to a full recovery (- but he's still looking a bit slim though eh?).
Our midfield looked pretty impressive against the Doggies, as it did against the Demons.

One recurring nightmare was the move by Sheedy to send in his big gun - Hird into the midfield - a tactic that proved decisive a number of times in the past. I don't think the way the game is played these days that this tactic will be as effective as it has. But like the evergreen Robert Harvey - it pays not to underestimate the value of a champion.

[nighthawk]

I think it has alot to do with your (the Saints') accuracy up front as well, and whether you can keep possession in your forward 50. Essendon have been playing a pretty strong rebound from defence, and i believe they currently hold this season's record for the most short kicks, which are used to slowly work the ball up from the back to the forward line. If Fletcher, Michael, Ryder or Mcphee can make the most of a kick in or loose ball, they might just feed it off to a lovett, davey or someone else with pace, which would be horrible for you.

Around the stoppages is where you'll do most damage i would think, with our rucks easily being our weakness. But i think in terms of tackles, forward thrusts and speed, we might have the advantage over you. Basically you just need to make sure you get the ball at the stoppages and keep it, and that you finish it properly when you get the chance up forward, because as mentioned essendon are quite strong on the rebound and will be waiting for your forwards to fumble.

I think your forward line playing well is just as important to your chances as ours is.

To that point, I feel that Fraser missing out on the game has actually put the Bombers at a disadvantage. Michael is quite slow and loves to attack from behind. Fraser would be the perfect opponent for him, and it would be easy opportunity for us to basically remove a forward from the game. Unfortunately he will be replaced by someone faster, who is likely to outrun Michael. I'm not sure on how highly regarded Gehrig is amongst Saints supports, but I would suggest his ban is totally in your favour.

[Jacko05]

essendon by 45890 points

[Merv]

essendon by 45890 points

They say there is one at every party.

Unfortunatly we seem to be gathering more and more every week

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I really dont know why, but I'm looking forward to this game.

[J.Hetfield]

Yo`DooR;7278900']I really dont know why, but I'm looking forward to this game.


Thats because deep down you know u love the dons..:cool: Dont deny it.

[Kildonan]

Yo`DooR;7278900']I really dont know why, but I'm looking forward to this game.

...or could it be that, after beating Essendon, Carlton can measure themselves against Essendons subsequent performances.

i.e. if we beat Ess and Ess beat Saints the we are better than the Saints QED

Sadly you'll have to wait until you play St Kilda before you will know just how you measure up to us.

[wazzabp]

Some pretty good posts in this thread, this should be another good game between the clubs. Last year, Essendon were missing a few and were beaten by the Saints in a close, tough game in the wet.
That game now counts for nothing, the sides are are a bit different, and its undercover at the dome.
St Kilda does have the edge in class in the midfield, so we really need to keep a few of your boys quiet in there, as a decent supply to Reiwoldt, Milne and Kosi could result in them outscoring the Bombers forwards of Lloyd, Lucas and co.
Best of luck to the Saints on Saturday, I'm looking forward to this game.

[Kildonan]

I think it has alot to do with your (the Saints') accuracy up front as well, and whether you can keep possession in your forward 50. Essendon have been playing a pretty strong rebound from defence, and i believe they currently hold this season's record for the most short kicks, which are used to slowly work the ball up from the back to the forward line. If Fletcher, Michael, Ryder or Mcphee can make the most of a kick in or loose ball, they might just feed it off to a lovett, davey or someone else with pace, which would be horrible for you.

Around the stoppages is where you'll do most damage i would think, with our rucks easily being our weakness. But i think in terms of tackles, forward thrusts and speed, we might have the advantage over you. Basically you just need to make sure you get the ball at the stoppages and keep it, and that you finish it properly when you get the chance up forward, because as mentioned essendon are quite strong on the rebound and will be waiting for your forwards to fumble.

I think your forward line playing well is just as important to your chances as ours is.

To that point, I feel that Fraser missing out on the game has actually put the Bombers at a disadvantage. Michael is quite slow and loves to attack from behind. Fraser would be the perfect opponent for him, and it would be easy opportunity for us to basically remove a forward from the game. Unfortunately he will be replaced by someone faster, who is likely to outrun Michael. I'm not sure on how highly regarded Gehrig is amongst Saints supports, but I would suggest his ban is totally in your favour.

Good post nighthawk.

I definitely agree with you re: the importance of our accuracy up forward - and no - that hasn't been one of our strengths.

The big "If" - If we can score goals with our main chances then that will go a long way towards a Saints victory.

If we keep turning it over, then that makes our defenders work doubly hard to get it back - eventually we will tire and Essendon will kick away.

Both teams will display their tackling prowess on Saturday - Essendons quicks will get their hands on plenty of Saints - but will they be strong enough to shut them down? The Saints might find the smallish quicks a little too slick - but if caught - will they bounce back up??

By the way, I might point out that Fraser Gehrig is deceptively quick.
When he first came back east from WCE, he was listed as one of their fastest players - he was tested here and came third in the club !!
That was a while ago, admittedly, but he has been known to surprise a few defenders who were running the ball out from full back.
Fraser is a mixed bag - he can be a world-beater - and he can be a drongo - all in the same match, but I'd rather have the big fella on the field and I have never considered the team a better one due to his absence.

[wazzabp]

Agree with you there StKildonian, Fraser missing will sure be a bigger loss than some people think, as it still takes a quality defender to keep an eye on him, which in turn frees up another of your big men. Hes usually good for 3 or 4 goals in game like this.

[J.Hetfield]

Some pretty good posts in this thread, this should be another good game between the clubs. Last year, Essendon were missing a few and were beaten by the Saints in a close, tough game in the wet.
That game now counts for nothing, the sides are are a bit different, and its undercover at the dome.
St Kilda does have the edge in class in the midfield, so we really need to keep a few of your boys quiet in there, as a decent supply to Reiwoldt, Milne and Kosi could result in them outscoring the Bombers forwards of Lloyd, Lucas and co.
Best of luck to the Saints on Saturday, I'm looking forward to this game.

We are still missing a few..Lovett-Murray, Welsh, JJ. I have Johns in my best 22 week in week out too but i seem to be out of sync with Sheeds on that one..You add the loss of Winders if the rumours are true and we 3 -4 players off full strength which is room for say 15% improvement.

So while the saints clearly have an understrength team i still think if we win its an awesome result..Id love to see the total games experience for the two sides..

[nighthawk]

Wow, I never knew Fraser was that fast.

Interesting to see how the Saints fans regard him. I remember being at one game in Sydney, and the crowd only ever used to cheer for him. Plenty of other players were slotting them through, but Gehrig was the only one really getting the Saints fans going.

Perhaps he's more important to your team than I thought. In that case then, I guess we've had a bit of luck :p

[donsman4eva]

Wow, I never knew Fraser was that fast.

Interesting to see how the Saints fans regard him. I remember being at one game in Sydney, and the crowd only ever used to cheer for him. Plenty of other players were slotting them through, but Gehrig was the only one really getting the Saints fans going.

Perhaps he's more important to your team than I thought. In that case then, I guess we've had a bit of luck :p
I think alot of people tend to forget that Fraser played on the wing in his days at WCE. Obviously he has put on muscle mass and has got older, but he would still be one of the quickest full forwards in the game.

[Big John]

Could be a shootout on the cards this week i think. Looks like CJ might be coming in as an emergency so could really stretch the saints backs, but the key is in the midfield. I honestly can't see us winning, but if we can at least make it a contest and keep the pressure on i think our backs should be able to hold up.

[DonMania#5]

Bombers midfield is looking inexperienced with J.Johnson, Campo and Winderlich missing.

[Big Bryza]

This game is going to be won it the middle. Your clearly a cut above them in this area and if dal santo ball and hayes have a day out you'll win easily. I think Blakes a good match for lucas as he will just be all over him like a bad rash from the first bounce. Fisher on Lloyd is good as Fisher can exploit him by getting on his bike and dragging him up the field, testing out that hammy. If Rix is playing just chuck him on Johns when need be, but i wouldnt be to concerned about him. Get on top in the middle early and i can see you fellas winning comfortably.

[WakeUpTaz]

as if essendon's midfield can trouble saint's, all the saints got to do is shut down llyod and lucas, if those 2 can both kick less then 3 goals then saints will win by 60 pointsw +

[nighthawk]

as if essendon's midfield can trouble saint's, all the saints got to do is shut down llyod and lucas, if those 2 can both kick less then 3 goals then saints will win by 60 pointsw +

Seen us play this year? We're pretty quick, as you'll find out soon enough on ANZAC day.

That said, Ball's return for them and us going without J. Johnson and Campo (who had a combined 77 touches last bombers vs saints match) will probably have an impact on the game. They should still be dominant in the midfeild, but that's been the general concensus the whole way through this thread.

And anyway, so you're saying that for the bombers to win lloyd and lucas each have to have 8 goals? That seems to be the implication you're making, as you suggest they're the only means of scoring goals. The three each you mentioned, plus the 10 to make up the other 60... that's 8 each just to draw equal.

Let's see how that theory of yours pans out.

[RED AND BLACK SOLDIER]

as if essendon's midfield can trouble saint's, all the saints got to do is shut down llyod and lucas, if those 2 can both kick less then 3 goals then saints will win by 60 pointsw +

All they have to do? I see no way of shutting our forwards down, Stkilda have their 2 best defenders out if you didnt already know. If you knew that, you would know that they will kick alot more goals than that on Saturday. I think we'll get about 10 between Lloyd and Lucas, oh and then we have some chap called Courtney Johns who could kick a few i guess. Lloyd will be taking on their 3rd defender in Fisher, and Johns will and Lucas will be playing on 2 defenders who don't usually play KP in the defence (Goddard and Blake), they may be able to minimize out forwards a bit but won't be able to shut them down. Stkilda are just going to have to smash us in the midfield if they want to win.

[saintsrule]

I think we do want to win! :thumbsu:

[donsman4eva]

as if essendon's midfield can trouble saint's, all the saints got to do is shut down llyod and lucas, if those 2 can both kick less then 3 goals then saints will win by 60 pointsw +
Bloody Collingwood losers. They think they know our team better than us. Such an ignorant bunch, fair dinkum. Can't wait to see your response at about 6.00 on April 25. Oh wait, you won't be speaking then because you will have lost :eek:

[WakeUpTaz]

Bloody Collingwood losers. They think they know our team better than us. Such an ignorant bunch, fair dinkum. Can't wait to see your response at about 6.00 on April 25. Oh wait, you won't be speaking then because you will have lost :eek:


whats wrong with saying you will lose if your forwards get shut down, you dumbass get a education, even if we lose its because we probably didn't beat your forwards, i am a loser for saying that, wow, your a champ

Retard.

[WakeUpTaz]

All they have to do? I see no way of shutting our forwards down, Stkilda have their 2 best defenders out if you didnt already know. If you knew that, you would know that they will kick alot more goals than that on Saturday. I think we'll get about 10 between Lloyd and Lucas, oh and then we have some chap called Courtney Johns who could kick a few i guess. Lloyd will be taking on their 3rd defender in Fisher, and Johns will and Lucas will be playing on 2 defenders who don't usually play KP in the defence (Goddard and Blake), they may be able to minimize out forwards a bit but won't be able to shut them down. Stkilda are just going to have to smash us in the midfield if they want to win.


isn't that what i just said? saints midfield will beat essendons..

[WakeUpTaz]

Seen us play this year? We're pretty quick, as you'll find out soon enough on ANZAC day.


And anyway, so you're saying that for the bombers to win lloyd and lucas each have to have 8 goals?

Let's see how that theory of yours pans out.

this proves it, all essendon supporters are dumb. when did i say that lucas and lloyd will kick 8 each, keep dreamin


EDIT. one more thing, essendon fans overate johns like we overate clarke, but essendon fans actually means it

another EDIT. This thread shouldn't be on the saints board, its become me vs essendon scums other then giving opinions

[nighthawk]

this proves it, all essendon supporters are dumb. when did i say that lucas and lloyd will kick 8 each, keep dreamin

EDIT. one more thing, essendon fans overate johns like we overate clarke, but essendon fans actually means it

another EDIT. This thread shouldn't be on the saints board, its become me vs essendon scums other then giving opinions

dude... you said lloyd and lucas will HAVE TO kick 8 each for essendon to win, not that they ARE going to kick 8 each. learn to read moron.

and yeah, i was just thinking that. there was some good discussion taking place until you arrived. well done, you did a brilliant job of embarrasing your club in the saints board

[nighthawk]

isn't that what i just said? saints midfield will beat essendons..

yes well done... that's what every other person in this thread has said also...

very innovative thinking there

[WakeUpTaz]

dude... you said lloyd and lucas will HAVE TO kick 8 each for essendon to win, not that they ARE going to kick 8 each. learn to read moron.

and yeah, i was just thinking that. there was some good discussion taking place until you arrived. well done, you did a brilliant job of embarrasing your club in the saints board

when did i say lloyd and lucas will kick 8 each, stop makign things up in your mind, scumbag get a education

[WakeUpTaz]

yes well done... that's what every other person in this thread has said also...

very innovative thinking there

exactly then whats with calling me a loser because i said saints will beat essenscum, welldone, you just proved 99% of essendon supporters are retards, the 1% is the essendon fans who goes/went to school


EDIT. forget everything else for a sec scum, show me the bit where i said lloyd and lucas needs to kick 8goals each

[RED AND BLACK SOLDIER]

isn't that what i just said? saints midfield will beat essendons..

I was refering to when you said if those 2 can kick less than 3 goals saints would win the match, and i was talking about how i dont think stkilda have a chance of shutting down our forwards IMO. But with the midfield point, you said they would beat us in the midfield, where as i said the saints are going to have to beat us in the midfield in order to win, but if we break even or better, we will win.

Similar, but not the same ;)

[GusIsBack]

I was refering to when you said if those 2 can kick less than 3 goals saints would win the match, and i was talking about how i dont think stkilda have a chance of shutting down our forwards IMO. But with the midfield point, you said they would beat us in the midfield, where as i said the saints are going to have to beat us in the midfield in order to win, but if we break even or better, we will win.

Similar, but not the same ;)

I can't believe how cocky we're getting... we lost to Carlton last week, dont forget it. Plus, the Saints are playing good football at the moment.

Just remember... whenever we expect to win, we lose. ;)

Looking forward to a good game.

[WakeUpTaz]

still waiting for nighthawk, meh the match would have started by then

[nighthawk]

still waiting for nighthawk, meh the match would have started by then

sorry mate, some of us have better things to do than argue with morons on BF

exactly then whats with calling me a loser because i said saints will beat essenscum, welldone, you just proved 99% of essendon supporters are retards, the 1% is the essendon fans who goes/went to school

EDIT. forget everything else for a sec scum, show me the bit where i said lloyd and lucas needs to kick 8goals each

mate, I wasn't the one who called you a loser, so dont ask me about that. but that post you made "all the saints got to do is shut down llyod and lucas" had already been said a hundred times in this forum, which is why i said "yes well done... that's what every other person in this thread has said also...

very innovative thinking there"

and mate, I've already pointed out where you said they need 8 goals each, but just coz ur a bit slow, I'll dumb it down for you:

you said that if lloyd and lucas only score 6 between them, we can't possibly win, which implies that they will be our only means of scoring goals, and our only threat up forward. otherwise it wouldn't matter if they only kicked six, because we could find goals elsewhere.

so after implying they're our only goal scoring options, you said "if those 2 can both kick less then 3 goals then saints will win by 60 pointsw +" this means the saints will score the 6 goals lloyd and lucas will kick (totalling 36 points) to draw even, plus another 60 points worth to win by 60+.

60 points + the 36 from lucas and lloyd equals 96 points. So basically you said the saints will score at least 96, which is a total of 16 goals. and since lloyd and lucas are apparantely our only threats up forward, they will each have to bag 8 goals.

do you get it yet? coz if you're still struggling to understand it, i'm not gonna bother anymore... what a waste of time.

p.s, mate that "essenscum" thing is hilarious! seriously funniest thing ever. not at all lame or anything.

[mcphee_is_a_gun]

Johns in for Winderlich, might stretch the Saints backline.

[WakeUpTaz]

sorry mate, some of us have better things to do than argue with morons on BF



mate, I wasn't the one who called you a loser, so dont ask me about that. but that post you made "all the saints got to do is shut down llyod and lucas" had already been said a hundred times in this forum, which is why i said "yes well done... that's what every other person in this thread has said also...

very innovative thinking there"

and mate, I've already pointed out where you said they need 8 goals each, but just coz ur a bit slow, I'll dumb it down for you:

you said that if lloyd and lucas only score 6 between them, we can't possibly win, which implies that they will be our only means of scoring goals, and our only threat up forward. otherwise it wouldn't matter if they only kicked six, because we could find goals elsewhere.

so after implying they're our only goal scoring options, you said "if those 2 can both kick less then 3 goals then saints will win by 60 pointsw +" this means the saints will score the 6 goals lloyd and lucas will kick (totalling 36 points) to draw even, plus another 60 points worth to win by 60+.

60 points + the 36 from lucas and lloyd equals 96 points. So basically you said the saints will score at least 96, which is a total of 16 goals. and since lloyd and lucas are apparantely our only threats up forward, they will each have to bag 8 goals.

do you get it yet? coz if you're still struggling to understand it, i'm not gonna bother anymore... what a waste of time.

p.s, mate that "essenscum" thing is hilarious! seriously funniest thing ever. not at all lame or anything.

you know the bit i said lloyd and lucas will be held to 3 golas each and the saints will win by 60+, it means i think that saints will win by 60+

i didn't mean for you to go ff and get a calculator and do
hmm so if wakeuptaz is right they need to kick lets see, 6 x8 =48, so thats 8 for lucas, and lets work out llyods now, dont you have better things to do other than calculate a message on a footballl forum?


PS. i agree you are a moron :D

edit. one more thingy, i got a calculator out and yea

if lloyd and lucas kicks 3 goals each (max), that will be 36 points, and saints DO need 96 points atleast to win by 60 points, the only danger players in your team are your big forwards, hird and your goal sneaking goalsneaks, so if they can each kick lets say 2 each which will be another 8 goals, so 6 goals +8 goals will be 14 goals, actually nvm lol you think toomuch :D

[bluejay]

As usual, our problem is capitalizing in our scoring chances. Too many behinds, too little goals for the opportunities we're having.

On the other hand, that's the strength of Bombers forwards.

I just hope we end up in the winning side and don't let their attack dominate us by cutting their ball feed.

[Bourky23]

we are lookin very shaky.. the don's are playin a lot more effeciently, milney just dobbed his 2nd then

[bluejay]

If we're still a chance in this game is thanks only to Rooey and Milney. Is it true what I've heard now that Sam Fisher has done a hammy?

[Bourky23]

If we're still a chance in this game is thanks only to Rooey and Milney. Is it true what I've heard now that Sam Fisher has done a hammy?

correct

[Dr Moose]

So after all that keeping Lloyd and Lucas under control still wasn't enough!

Condolences fellas - we know Gehrig ' Hudgeton,' McGuire is a massive void to try filling

[Big Member]

So after all that keeping Lloyd and Lucas under control still wasn't enough!

Condolences fellas - we know Gehrig ' Hudgeton,' McGuire is a massive void to try filling

Cheers mate. The Bombers deserved to win.

The problem with containing Lloyd and Lucas using Goddard and Gram is that it robs us of creativity out of defence. We looked completely lost and were paralysed by indecision. Stupid little handballs and pathetic skill errors brought about by fantastic pressure from the Bombers (they did a Brisbane on us, to an extent).

I'll save my whinging to a later date I think...

[nighthawk]

you know the bit i said lloyd and lucas will be held to 3 golas each and the saints will win by 60+, it means i think that saints will win by 60+

i didn't mean for you to go ff and get a calculator and do
hmm so if wakeuptaz is right they need to kick lets see, 6 x8 =48, so thats 8 for lucas, and lets work out llyods now, dont you have better things to do other than calculate a message on a footballl forum?


PS. i agree you are a moron :D

edit. one more thingy, i got a calculator out and yea

if lloyd and lucas kicks 3 goals each (max), that will be 36 points, and saints DO need 96 points atleast to win by 60 points, the only danger players in your team are your big forwards, hird and your goal sneaking goalsneaks, so if they can each kick lets say 2 each which will be another 8 goals, so 6 goals +8 goals will be 14 goals, actually nvm lol you think toomuch :D

lol, actually mate i didn't need a calculator, it's pretty simple but whatever.

oh yeah, and lloyd and lucas did only score three each :rolleyes:

well predicted, except for the result

[WakeUpTaz]

lol, actually mate i didn't need a calculator, it's pretty simple but whatever.

oh yeah, and lloyd and lucas did only score three each :rolleyes:

well predicted, except for the result

quiet you :D dam saints teach me to tip you