View Full Version : Are we pointing fingers in the wrong direction?
Docker_Brat
8 May 2007, 15:53
It's a common theme about our midfield being slow. So who's responsible for that? I'd love to know what Ben Tarbox is doing differently compared to other teams if our players are "slow".
Neil Craig has been the subject of much derision after his "Crowbots" broke down leading up to the finals last year. Yet people forget that when the Crows won back to back in 97/98 that Craig was their head strength and conditioning coach and being lauded as being as much responsible for their success as Blight was.
Perhaps it's time to throw a wad of cash at Stuart Cormack for a couple of years?
Dr Ralph Dagg
8 May 2007, 19:23
It's a common theme about our midfield being slow. So who's responsible for that? I'd love to know what Ben Tarbox is doing differently compared to other teams if our players are "slow".
Neil Craig has been the subject of much derision after his "Crowbots" broke down leading up to the finals last year. Yet people forget that when the Crows won back to back in 97/98 that Craig was their head strength and conditioning coach and being lauded as being as much responsible for their success as Blight was.
Perhaps it's time to throw a wad of cash at Stuart Cormack for a couple of years?
Neil Craig has admitted also that this years pre-season was so tough that could be why all his players are breaking down.
Matty Carr, Hase, Bell, Josh Carr and to a lesser degree Blackie and Schammer have always been slow to slowish. I think Colin Wisbey's report of Schammer was that he wasn't quick.
Its more than a conditioning issue. In fact, as I recall, the first 10 metres is mostly all genetics. You can add strength but everyone is trying to add strength.
We haven't addressed the issue through the draft which we should have. Not sure if thats Smarts fault or whether he is guided as to what type of player to pick?
We haven't addressed the issue through the draft which we should have. Not sure if thats Smarts fault or whether he is guided as to what type of player to pick?
Gotta be the coaches responsibility ultimately.
When was the last time we spent a highish (1st rounder) draft pick on a pure midfielder with pace?
Not in the last 6 years I reckon.
I think this whole slow midfield thing is really overratted.
The fact is we finished 3rd last season with pretty much the same blokes there.
The problem I think is more to do, firstly with endurance, as the games we have lost, we have been close at 3/4 time.
And delivery into the forward line, which we can file in our bulging suitcase of skill errors.
The media were saying the same things last year but we proved them wrong, and we'll do it again.
I think this whole slow midfield thing is really overratted.
The fact is we finished 3rd last season with pretty much the same blokes there.
The problem I think is more to do, firstly with endurance, as the games we have lost, we have been close at 3/4 time.
And delivery into the forward line, which we can file in our bulging suitcase of skill errors.
The media were saying the same things last year but we proved them wrong, and we'll do it again.
Spot on. the ones missing Peake & Shamm , probably the two best line breaker's and covering tacklers in there.
Peaker should be right the week after next .
macka6210
8 May 2007, 23:59
Didnt we all say thast once johnson and black are back into our side we should be right ?? disposal and speed needs to be address but this wont happen until FFC actually use our draft pick to get young quick players instaed of filling up on mature slower type players carr, bell, solomons, etc etc . how can a team like the eagles who have had lower picks then us due to the fact we have finished lower still maintain a good midfield ?? we need to draft smarter
pinkus maximus
9 May 2007, 00:10
Gotta be the coaches responsibility ultimately.
When was the last time we spent a highish (1st rounder) draft pick on a pure midfielder with pace?
Not in the last 6 years I reckon.
01 -browne(52)
02- schammer(13),crowley(55),edgcumbe(60ish) and doswell(70ish)
03- dunn(more a utility than midfileder IMO(10))and peake(F/S)
04- stribling(60ish)
05- ibbotson(25)
06- collard(31), o'brien(52)
not a very inspiring list. our KPPs however have been outstanding
estibador
9 May 2007, 00:18
how can a team like the eagles who have had lower picks then us due to the fact we have finished lower still maintain a good midfield ?? we need to draft smarter
Let's face it, the much vaunted gun eagles midfield basically consists of Judd, Cousins and Kerr. Take them out and I'm sure this great second tier we keep hearing about suddenly wouldn't look so flash.
Of those three Cousins was a father son pick and Judd was a top 3 pick. The only real smart draft pick up was Kerr with a second rounder.
Freo Shark
9 May 2007, 00:24
Given its round six.
If theres a criticism of our drafting its we seem to have a messiac belief. We draft for immediacy and for the quick jump up the ladder abit of small brother syndrome maybe.
We need to take our draft pics.
Let's face it, the much vaunted gun eagles midfield basically consists of Judd, Cousins and Kerr. Take them out and I'm sure this great second tier we keep hearing about suddenly wouldn't look so flash.
Of those three Cousins was a father son pick and Judd was a top 3 pick. The only real smart draft pick up was Kerr with a second rounder.
Interestingly I was listening to Derm yesterday critigue our midfield , and he reckoned it was just one Burgoyne type short.
Thats the sort of role Peake filled (not as well obviously) last year.
Let's face it, the much vaunted gun eagles midfield basically consists of Judd, Cousins and Kerr. Take them out and I'm sure this great second tier we keep hearing about suddenly wouldn't look so flash.
Of those three Cousins was a father son pick and Judd was a top 3 pick. The only real smart draft pick up was Kerr with a second rounder.
Embley, Stenglein, Braun, Chick are pretty good backups, whilst Selwood, Waters and Hurn are also very handy. There is only one guy under 180 in that list too. Embley, Stenglein, Braun, Waters and Hurn are all pretty quick too....
pinkus maximus
9 May 2007, 00:32
Embley, Stenglein, Braun, Chick are pretty good backups, whilst Selwood, Waters and Hurn are also very handy. There is only one guy under 180 in that list too. Embley, Stenglein, Braun, Waters and Hurn are all pretty quick too....
lets not forget butler and priddis. butler especially is very classy
dockers_bengals
9 May 2007, 00:42
I think this whole slow midfield thing is really overratted. The fact is we finished 3rd last season with pretty much the same blokes there.
The problem I think is more to do, firstly with endurance, as the games we have lost, we have been close at 3/4 time.
And delivery into the forward line, which we can file in our bulging suitcase of skill errors.
The media were saying the same things last year but we proved them wrong, and we'll do it again.
I agree and I dont think any one midfield is really faster than any other just the odd players.
Brumbies
9 May 2007, 00:49
Dont compare the eagles with us, yes they have a very good midfield but we do have quality there too just not as deep. Eagles supports are jealous of our forward line and would crave just 1 of our KP forwards. Instead of wondering and questioning what we dont have lets just be gratefull for what we do and work with it to our advantage.
Docker_Brat
9 May 2007, 10:14
Let's face it, the much vaunted gun eagles midfield basically consists of Judd, Cousins and Kerr. Take them out and I'm sure this great second tier we keep hearing about suddenly wouldn't look so flash.
Of those three Cousins was a father son pick and Judd was a top 3 pick. The only real smart draft pick up was Kerr with a second rounder.
Priddis is looking the goods. Would love to have him in our side.
01 -browne(52)
02- schammer(13),crowley(55),edgcumbe(60ish) and doswell(70ish)
03- dunn(more a utility than midfileder IMO(10))and peake(F/S)
04- stribling(60ish)
05- ibbotson(25)
06- collard(31), o'brien(52)
not a very inspiring list. our KPPs however have been outstanding
Ibbotson is not a midfielder yet either, and certainly wasn't when we drafted him. Also Collard and O'Brien aren't midfielders, CC said so himself when interviewed after the draft.
So take them out and you're left with;
Browne, Schammer, Crowley, Edgecumbe, Doswell, peake, Stribling over 6 years! That's great:rolleyes:
Let's face it, the much vaunted gun eagles midfield basically consists of Judd, Cousins and Kerr. Take them out and I'm sure this great second tier we keep hearing about suddenly wouldn't look so flash.
Of those three Cousins was a father son pick and Judd was a top 3 pick. The only real smart draft pick up was Kerr with a second rounder.
The difference is estibador, that even though the Eagles had this luxurious midfield they still continued to draft midfielders year after year at least a couple every draft, whereas we have picked 7 over 6 drafts and 5 of those were very speculative picks late in the draft therefore 3 of the 7 have long gone and Browne has struggled.
The difference is estibador, that even though the Eagles had this luxurious midfield they still continued to draft midfielders year after year at least a couple every draft, whereas we have picked 7 over 6 drafts and 5 of those were very speculative picks late in the draft therefore 3 of the 7 have long gone and Browne has struggled.
Spot on.
Eagles needed a KPP the year they drafted Judd. We all laughed and said "they could have got Polak!"
They had a kick ass midfield and still drafted Hurn (who was highly rated). That year we got another kid who's Dad played footy with CC from country Vic who is the same shape and type of player of 3/4 of our squad (Drum). Priddis was just sitting there and we didn't get him. Even someone like Armstrong (not a fast midfielder but a smart and skillful player) trained with us pre-season but we couldn't pick him becuase we had already committed to Stribling.
No excuses. Our midfield recruitment policy is seriously flawed. Zero pace on one of the biggest grounds in Australia. I say take half of the Western Bulldogs midfuled and trade them with half of our KPP and you'd have the two top teams in the league.
macka6210
9 May 2007, 21:44
Dont compare the eagles with us, yes they have a very good midfield but we do have quality there too just not as deep. Eagles supports are jealous of our forward line and would crave just 1 of our KP forwards. Instead of wondering and questioning what we dont have lets just be gratefull for what we do and work with it to our advantage.
this is the piont brumbie as others have explained quite well we might have some very good forwards but what good are they when we can get the ball down to them. the piont i was trying to make is why dont we have that depth when for most of the past years we have finished below the eagle yet have nothing to show for it
Roundhouse
9 May 2007, 22:22
No excuses. Our midfield recruitment policy is seriously flawed. Zero pace on one of the biggest grounds in Australia. I say take half of the Western Bulldogs midfuled and trade them with half of our KPP and you'd have the two top teams in the league.
It didn't really look like we zero pace during our run last year. We are missing Peake and Schammer from that midfield. Even so, we won clearances against Adelaide at Subi who are no slouches in that area. We didn't look particulary slow against Adelaide because won enough of the ball.
Our midfield is good enough to break even with, and even beat, the best midfields in their comp on their day. The problem is ANY midfield will look slow if they don't get there hands on the ball enough.
Kernel Sanders
9 May 2007, 22:29
this is the piont brumbie as others have explained quite well we might have some very good forwards but what good are they when we can get the ball down to them. the piont i was trying to make is why dont we have that depth when for most of the past years we have finished below the eagle yet have nothing to show for it
Without being condescending,
Freo has always tried to grab the "big name" recruit each year, that will somehow fix the defencies of the remaining players. In the process, they've paid over the odds for the players and ensured they haven't picked up the kids at earlier picks, compounding the midfield problem.
royalist
9 May 2007, 22:41
Since Whoosha took over he has concentrated on a quick midfield, ala Brisbane. Is it a coincedent now that some of the more flamboyant coaches ( Sheedy and Malthouse ) have woken up to it.
Roundhouse
9 May 2007, 22:52
Since Whoosha took over he has concentrated on a quick midfield, ala Brisbane. Is it a coincedent now that some of the more flamboyant coaches ( Sheedy and Malthouse ) have woken up to it.
Malthouse? Flamboyant?
ImperialPurple
9 May 2007, 22:58
Malthouse? Flamboyant?
Precisely the two words (in precisely the same formation) that came to my mind when I read it...
royalist
9 May 2007, 23:19
Malthouse? Flamboyant?
Sorry. I forgot myself.
It didn't really look like we zero pace during our run last year. We are missing Peake and Schammer from that midfield. Even so, we won clearances against Adelaide at Subi who are no slouches in that area. We didn't look particulary slow against Adelaide because won enough of the ball.
Our midfield is good enough to break even with, and even beat, the best midfields in their comp on their day. The problem is ANY midfield will look slow if they don't get there hands on the ball enough.
Hawthorn didn't look too shabby 5 or so years ago when they were a Croady straight kick away from a grand final.
You shouldn't base your assessment of our team when everything is rolling right. You learn more about a team when the game plan isn't working. If we hit our targets, we look pretty good. If we stay ahead on the scoreboard we look pretty good.
When we miss our targets and when we are behind by more than 3 goals on the scoreboard we don't have the pace to break the lines, make the play and change the composure of the game.
Also, if the pace of our team is in two players (the oft mentioned Peake and Schammer) then that is terrible depth and bad recruiting.
Roundhouse
10 May 2007, 00:41
Hawthorn didn't look too shabby 5 or so years ago when they were a Croady straight kick away from a grand final.
You shouldn't base your assessment of our team when everything is rolling right. You learn more about a team when the game plan isn't working. If we hit our targets, we look pretty good. If we stay ahead on the scoreboard we look pretty good.
When we miss our targets and when we are behind by more than 3 goals on the scoreboard we don't have the pace to break the lines, make the play and change the composure of the game.
Also, if the pace of our team is in two players (the oft mentioned Peake and Schammer) then that is terrible depth and bad recruiting.
I know what you are saying (that hitting targets and moving the ball quickly when have won possession hides our lack of pace), yes, but it also wins games of footy. All I'm saying is we could have the quickest midfield in comp, but it wouldn't matter. If you don't win the ball, and use it well, pace means nothing.
As you pointed out when we hit targets, and get enough of the ball our midfield (and team) works just fine offensively and we can post big enough scores to win. Our form last year shows we are capable of playing this way.
When we don't have the ball. We do have enough pace to put pressure on opposition teams through the midfield and all over the ground. We showed it last year. Last week we didn't show it. We lacked intensity, not pace.
I believe we have the cattle, and we have the gameplan. This year we have been let down at times by our disposal and our intensity.