View Full Version : Topping up?
When the club made the decision to go after Tarrant & Han Soloman I was suprised. It seemed obvious to me that we would be going after midfielders. I mean we had Pav & Murph & Wiz going great and all we needed was some more blokes to get the ball first and kick it accurately to them right? Even if we were "topping up" for a tilt at the flag rather than recruiting with an eye on the future it still seemed to me that midfield was where we most often fall down.
So I know it's early days & hindsight has 20/20 vision and we don't have schammer & peake & browne out there & I'm not burning my membership or committing suicide at this point but I have to say it's not looking like great recruiting at this stage. Perhaps all it needs is a couple of those guys back & Crowley to start hitting his straps again. Haze is going allright as is Josh. Maybe Thornts & Driller will come back and Mundy & Jonno will start playing through the middle along with Drummie. Whatever is to happen they better get their skates on soon or this year will be passing us by.
Oh & having said all that I like Tarrant but I don't think he's what we needed i.e another temperamental hot & cold sometimes genius. Murph is a better kick by a mile and Kiwi has shown enough to say he's going to be thereabouts. Soloman I just don't get at all as it seems to me Webster does it all & better but apparently the coaches like what he does & consider it important & they obviously know more than me about it. I guess too I still associate those guys with their old clubs & would have preferred we brought our own kids along rather than recycle. Even though Spud is a Vic he's one of ours cause we've brought him along. Hope he's back out there soon. That's another worry with high price imports that we have to play them even if they don't deserve a game on form cause we spent the farm on them & it may keep someone like Murph out although I suppose if he's kicking a bag every week in the wafl they will find a spot for him.
Anyway that's enough of a late night waffle from me.
See you at the game on Sunday!
longsuffreosupp
9 May 2007, 03:50
You've hit the nail on the head, not that it needed much hitting.
I'd like to know what midfielders were out there that we could've got with the price that came with Taz. As silly at it sounds, I thought they picked up Solly on the cheap, and he would be here to add a bit of toughness and keep Taz happy. Maybe Solly wasnt so cheap.
Taz will be around for a few more years, and who knows, Pav might go back to SA and we'll have at least Campbell or Murphy to come in. Murphy has shown enough to be a valuable enough trade option if it comes to that.
All in all, yes we kinda had to top up, we showed why in the prelim final. Whatever we did, we're expected to back it up. Maybe midfielders would've been on the menu if there were some, but I didn't many worth getting into. I just hope that we dont suffer what Hawthorn/Richmond did in 2002 after their 2001.
NiGHTFuRY
9 May 2007, 04:48
You've hit the nail on the head, not that it needed much hitting.
I'd like to know what midfielders were out there that we could've got with the price that came with Taz. As silly at it sounds, I thought they picked up Solly on the cheap, and he would be here to add a bit of toughness and keep Taz happy. Maybe Solly wasnt so cheap.
Taz will be around for a few more years, and who knows, Pav might go back to SA and we'll have at least Campbell or Murphy to come in. Murphy has shown enough to be a valuable enough trade option if it comes to that.
All in all, yes we kinda had to top up, we showed why in the prelim final. Whatever we did, we're expected to back it up. Maybe midfielders would've been on the menu if there were some, but I didn't many worth getting into. I just hope that we dont suffer what Hawthorn/Richmond did in 2002 after their 2001.
Oh, please God no. I hope w dont do that as well. Didn't Hawthorn have an incredible winning streak as well in the second half of that 2001 season?.
NiGHTFuRY
9 May 2007, 04:49
When the club made the decision to go after Tarrant & Han Soloman I was suprised.
I love a Star Wars reference. A nice alternate nic for Solly. :thumbsu: :)
Purple Passion
9 May 2007, 05:00
yep the similarities begin to add up and i guess its the customary knee jerk reaction now (Harvey saying that Some changes in the mid would be permanent in the coming weeks ) i just wonder why we haven't targeted mids IMO we should move heaven and south freo oval to secure a good in and under midfielders in the next few drafts since everyone knows our weak spot
theGav56
9 May 2007, 10:15
Recruiting Tarrant has been a brilliant move so far. He has at the very least filled some of the scoring that Farmer and Murphy should be filling. Hopefully Murphy's form turns around, but when he had his opportunity at the start of the year he was simply taking up space.
Unlike you I have big fears of the trade value of any players who are happy to go to Victoria. I would have expected Polak to have the same or greater trade value than Murphy.
Well I can't add anything to that E Shed. Spot on. Glad to see there are a few of us thinking the same way.
I have no issues with the trades as they stand.
Tarrant has done everything that has been asked of him this year.
I think they were looking at the players who will retire this year, knowing we will need to top up heavily from below at the draft and got some more middle years experience...
I don't necessarily have an issue with that, but a lot of our mids have injured and the younger ones are not deemed ready...it's backfired a bit.
When the club made the decision to go after Tarrant & Han Soloman I was suprised. It seemed obvious to me that we would be going after midfielders. I mean we had Pav & Murph & Wiz going great and all we needed was some more blokes to get the ball first and kick it accurately to them right? Even if we were "topping up" for a tilt at the flag rather than recruiting with an eye on the future it still seemed to me that midfield was where we most often fall down.
So I know it's early days & hindsight has 20/20 vision and we don't have schammer & peake & browne out there & I'm not burning my membership or committing suicide at this point but I have to say it's not looking like great recruiting at this stage. Perhaps all it needs is a couple of those guys back & Crowley to start hitting his straps again. Haze is going allright as is Josh. Maybe Thornts & Driller will come back and Mundy & Jonno will start playing through the middle along with Drummie. Whatever is to happen they better get their skates on soon or this year will be passing us by.
Oh & having said all that I like Tarrant but I don't think he's what we needed i.e another temperamental hot & cold sometimes genius. Murph is a better kick by a mile and Kiwi has shown enough to say he's going to be thereabouts. Soloman I just don't get at all as it seems to me Webster does it all & better but apparently the coaches like what he does & consider it important & they obviously know more than me about it. I guess too I still associate those guys with their old clubs & would have preferred we brought our own kids along rather than recycle. Even though Spud is a Vic he's one of ours cause we've brought him along. Hope he's back out there soon. That's another worry with high price imports that we have to play them even if they don't deserve a game on form cause we spent the farm on them & it may keep someone like Murph out although I suppose if he's kicking a bag every week in the wafl they will find a spot for him.
Anyway that's enough of a late night waffle from me.
See you at the game on Sunday!
Which midfielders were available to come over here?
None.
Which midfielders were available to come over here?
None.
Stop talking sense...
ImperialPurple
9 May 2007, 11:26
When the club made the decision to go after Tarrant & Han Soloman I was suprised.
I love a Star Wars reference. A nice alternate nic for Solly. :thumbsu: :)
Well for one whose location is the Mos Eisley Cantina... that would have to be expected... ;)
:thumbsu:
Which midfielders were available to come over here?
None.
I went off track a bit there, what my main point started out to be was that I think perhaps we should have kept all our draft picks and whatever we could get for Polak and got the best (fastest) young midfield players out there to come through under the ageing guys. I am suprised that we backed our midfield in to be able to go all the way and went for another key position player as the centrepiece of our trading. I was prepared to be pleasantly suprised by the wisdom of the football dept but so far I'm not. I think, as has been said that Tarrant has performed beautifully so far I just question if he was what we needed to go one better. We didn't know Murph was going to fall away when we drafted him (tarrant) in fact he (murph) was one who everyone I know had big wraps on for this year so looking at it from that perspective at the end of last year a high priced key forward was about the last thing I thought we'd go after. CC rolled the dice going for a flag but so far it's not working out. Still we're only 6 rounds in and we haven't had our best 22 out there yet it's just the injuries and suspensions have so far showed the lack of depth is most felt in the middle.
I went off track a bit there, what my main point started out to be was that I think perhaps we should have kept all our draft picks and whatever we could get for Polak and got the best (fastest) young midfield players out there to come through under the ageing guys. I am suprised that we backed our midfield in to be able to go all the way and went for another key position player as the centrepiece of our trading. I was prepared to be pleasantly suprised by the wisdom of the football dept but so far I'm not. I think, as has been said that Tarrant has performed beautifully so far I just question if he was what we needed to go one better. We didn't know Murph was going to fall away when we drafted him (tarrant) in fact he (murph) was one who everyone I know had big wraps on for this year so looking at it from that perspective at the end of last year a high priced key forward was about the last thing I thought we'd go after. CC rolled the dice going for a flag but so far it's not working out. Still we're only 6 rounds in and we haven't had our best 22 out there yet it's just the injuries and suspensions have so far showed the lack of depth is most felt in the middle.
A few weeks ago We were lamenting the lack of depth in the backline.
No one could have predicted at trade time that We would lose
Schammer (illness)
Farmer (suspension)
Johnno (ripped off)
Peake (injury)
Heathblack (injury)
Dunn (injury just as He was pushing for a call up)
Murphy (form)
Duffman (form)
Browne (Injury - we maybe that was a reasonable bet )
Justin (See Browne)
Next month I hope we are not lamenting the lack of forward depth.
Seems the club is always looking outside for the next messiah. I am not saying dont trade at all but to be successfully we need to pick the best and developed them. There is no quick fixs to success just long sustained effort my all.
Always looking outside the club undermines the playing game and discourages players seeing a spot in the team and working extremely hard to get it.
Tarrant has been good but we had Campbell and Murphy fighting for a spot in the team. Now with Tarrant, Warnock, Sandilands, and Pavlich. There is only one or no spots depending on conditions and match ups.
Good possiblity that we might lose Murphy and he may go onto to be a 60+ a year goal kicker.
Solomon has been doing well for us but he keeps out the likes of Drum and co.
If we didn't trade for Solomon and Tarrant we could have picks 8,31,42,47,63 plus whatever we could got for Medhurst (maybe a thrid pick).
8 - Armitage
31 - Collard
42 - Houli
(43) - Brad Dick
47 - O'Brien
63 - Mourish
My view is that we could have still been a top contender and also provided for the future. Armitage and Houli could have been the midfield mix and be 10 year players.
e10pizza
9 May 2007, 12:31
Hi everyone this is my first post on this site and I must say I really enjoy reading most posts.
The midfield seems to be huge problem at the moment and it is easy to heap crap on past decisions which in hindsight seem totally founded. It seems to me we have been unlucky this year in that many of our midfielders have been injured (Peake, Browne, Scham) or just plain out of formv(M Carr, J Carr, Belly).
Are these players out of form maybe playing different roles such as J Carr (outside reciever) or are they just plain totally down on confidence?
I thought that with our forward line we would be just trying to get the ball down there as quickly as possible.
Dr Ralph Dagg
9 May 2007, 12:40
If you look at the final against Sydney you could see Pav needed help. Lots of help. Sydney had Hall, O'loughlin, O'Keefe. We had Pav.
So, I think Tarrant and Solomon have been excellent pickups for what we paid. With Tarrant and Pav we have a forward line for at least five years. Pav is in the top 3 goal kickers in the AFL now we have Tarrant. He's everything we could have wanted. Solomons been doing the job asked of him. I thought he was aweseome at Adelaide game with his ferocity at the ball.
If you want a comparison, have a look at Scotty Lucas without Lloyd. On fire at the start of the season but now its not so easy.
I stand to be corrected, but my recollection is that trade week is all about key position players. You only ever get 2nd tier mids in trade week unless there is a come-home special. We got Josh Carr on a lucky break. In fact it seems the only good mids available come from Port Power.
And who would have thought that last years midfield with the addition of Hase would be so woeful this year as to have Walker keep his spot and MacManus the leading light.
So, yeah, nah ... I'm happy with Tarrant and Solomon
theGav56
9 May 2007, 16:06
If we didn't trade for Solomon and Tarrant we could have picks 8,31,42,47,63 plus whatever we could got for Medhurst (maybe a thrid pick).
8 - Armitage
31 - Collard
42 - Houli
(43) - Brad Dick
47 - O'Brien
63 - Mourish
My view is that we could have still been a top contender and also provided for the future. Armitage and Houli could have been the midfield mix and be 10 year players.
If the Tarrant trade was not on the cards, Medhurst would not have been traded. He doesn't seem to have been "on the table" as such and was still contracted.
If you read through the draft posts prior to the draft actually happening, both Collard and O'brien were touted consistently as 1st round picks. I think it is highly likely that they would still have featured in our first three picks, meaning that the main change to our drafting would have been either Armitage or Houli.
For me, having Tarrant (whose form has been as good as Pav's) and Solomon, instead of Medhurst and Armitage is a better situation both short (1-2 years) and long-term (5 years).
theGav56
9 May 2007, 16:12
I thought that with our forward line we would be just trying to get the ball down there as quickly as possible.
Welcome to the forum.
Me too. And I am sure that's the game plan. Unfortunately we have been killed at clearances (again) and are really suffering from lacking peake 9and his porr form when he was playing) and Schammer. Also, the "get in quickly" game plan would work much better if Farmer hadn't put a gaping hole in our 2007 finals aspirations.
Oh, please God no. I hope w dont do that as well. Didn't Hawthorn have an incredible winning streak as well in the second half of that 2001 season?.
Second half of the 2003 season, and our board back then (which constisted of dermie) had the insight of giving our then coach another 2 year contract :eek: (insane), and then he got sacked during the season in 2004. I think if your coach isn't performing, you definately can't look back and say, but we got close that year. Time to bring someone else, seems recently that untried coaches (atleast before their current posistions) have been doing pretty well.
dominguez
9 May 2007, 19:53
Unlike you I have big fears of the trade value of any players who are happy to go to Victoria. I would have expected Polak to have the same or greater trade value than Murphy.
There were two big reasons why Polak's trade value was low Gav.
dominguez
9 May 2007, 20:06
The Tarrant/Solomon deals were always going to be judged on
i) How they played
ii) How the team performed
At the moment Tarrant has played well and Solomon has been up and down but the team has been losing, so at present the decision to trade draft picks was a bad one. That can obviously change if we start playing to potential.
If Joel Selwood had fallen to pick 8 I would have been really disappointed that we traded that pick, but he went to the cats at pick 7. It would have made the Selwood/Headland saga even more interesting if Joel was at the dockers.
pistol17
10 May 2007, 12:33
The Tarrant/Solomon deals were always going to be judged on
i) How they played
ii) How the team performed
At the moment Tarrant has played well and Solomon has been up and down but the team has been losing, so at present the decision to trade draft picks was a bad one. That can obviously change if we start playing to potential.
If Joel Selwood had fallen to pick 8 I would have been really disappointed that we traded that pick, but he went to the cats at pick 7. It would have made the Selwood/Headland saga even more interesting if Joel was at the dockers.
Yeh would have been interesting but Joel wouldnt have been playing that day, he would have been a draft pick at freo so unless your hasleby or pavlich you dont get a run until your 2nd, 3rd or 4th year
Belnakor
10 May 2007, 12:44
i"m happy with the trades, because we traded for a sure thing, in exchange for a couple of picks in the lottery they call the draft. Taz has been great this year, hes only had one bad game, and he has always put his body on the line.
thefamilyguy
10 May 2007, 12:46
yep the similarities begin to add up and i guess its the customary knee jerk reaction now (Harvey saying that Some changes in the mid would be permanent in the coming weeks ) i just wonder why we haven't targeted mids IMO we should move heaven and south freo oval to secure a good in and under midfielders in the next few drafts since everyone knows our weak spot
Lack of heart?
Topdock65
10 May 2007, 12:47
Lack of heart?
Ashley Hansen ???
thefamilyguy
10 May 2007, 12:48
SNAP
:D
#runs back to eagles board#
pistol17
10 May 2007, 12:59
SNAP
:D
#runs back to eagles board#
LMAO
theGav56
10 May 2007, 13:16
Yeh would have been interesting but Joel wouldnt have been playing that day, he would have been a draft pick at freo so unless your hasleby or pavlich you dont get a run until your 2nd, 3rd or 4th year
You say that as though not playing until your second year is a bad thing.
Telly Dunn that, and Polak too. Brown was selected in the team before Pavich. I suggest that you put up stats to support your theory, and then take into account that it seems very likely that Collard may get a run this week. What other first year player do you want to see in the team this week?
estibador
10 May 2007, 13:18
Yeh would have been interesting but Joel wouldnt have been playing that day, he would have been a draft pick at freo so unless your hasleby or pavlich you dont get a run until your 2nd, 3rd or 4th year
Pav and Hase were played because they were ready, most skinny draftees aren't . I fail to see the obsession with throwing the kids in the deep end before they're ready. That's what we used to do when we were crap and we were roundly criticised for it. Everything from injuries to poor form and loss of confidence were blamed on playing the kids before they were ready.
For years successful clubs have been making the kids earn their spot in the team through consistently good performances. There's nothing to be gained from throwing kids in merely because they're new and we want to see what they can do. Let them show us what they can do in the WAFL. At the moment Collard is the only one demanding a spot on performance and it appears he's close to getting one.
You only have to look at Richmond on the weekend to see what happens when your team's full of kids that aren't ready.
theGav56
10 May 2007, 13:58
You only have to look at Richmond on the weekend to see what happens when your team's full of kids that aren't ready.
I wish that game was televised. Would love to see Richmond get belted.
I agree with you est, but Geelong did have Hawkins and Selwood in the team. Did Varcoe play too?
First year players can make an impact, but selection needs to be when they are physically ready, and in form.
pistol17
10 May 2007, 14:04
You say that as though not playing until your second year is a bad thing.
Telly Dunn that, and Polak too. Brown was selected in the team before Pavich. I suggest that you put up stats to support your theory, and then take into account that it seems very likely that Collard may get a run this week. What other first year player do you want to see in the team this week?
Just getting frustrated that we want to play gilmore and walker instead of blooding the young guys. Even the eagles blooded rosa and hurn last year while they were flying to give them experience, i would just like to see guys like campbell given more than one week to show what he has instead of continually playing gilmore and walker.
pistol17
10 May 2007, 14:06
I wish that game was televised. Would love to see Richmond get belted.
I agree with you est, but Geelong did have Hawkins and Selwood in the team. Did Varcoe play too?
First year players can make an impact, but selection needs to be when they are physically ready, and in form.
Campbell kicking 8 goals on the weekend. Give him more than 1 week to show what he has got
estibador
10 May 2007, 14:13
I wish that game was televised. Would love to see Richmond get belted.
I agree with you est, but Geelong did have Hawkins and Selwood in the team. Did Varcoe play too?
First year players can make an impact, but selection needs to be when they are physically ready, and in form.
I watched the game on fox and it was most enjoyable. I was in the mood to see any team belted to ease my pain after watching the Freo game.
Selwood didn't have a massive influence and Hawkins only came into it once the game was dead and buried. Varcoe was very good though, Cats look to have a real talent there. But your right, all those players are playing because their form demands it and they're physically ready (esp Hawkins - my God he's a massive 18 yo. In fact Geelong will probably have to monitor him to make sure he doesn't get too big.) Geelong aren't just playing them for the sake of it because they are kids.
pistol17
10 May 2007, 14:43
I didnt mean to play every kid but surely the form Collard and Campbell have shown warrants selection over some mediocre perfomances by senior players.
theGav56
10 May 2007, 15:30
You're backpeddling at a million miles an hour pistol. Cambell is a third year player, and has only just started to demand selection. As a first year player he did not warrant selection. Collard is being considered, and given that he had an injury interupted pre-season, that is an unexpected bonus. At best he should expect to be an in and out selection, racking up only a few games in year one.
Rather than being frustrated with selections, i think the frustration should be at the lack of discipline players have shown who are now suspended, resulting in us even considering 1st year players. Injuries are a different matter, but Dunn, Browne and peake out is hurting us. Alos, if Murphy had form, I don't think we would be considering Campbell.
dominguez
10 May 2007, 19:13
Campbell and/or Collard will definately play on Sunday.
thefamilyguy
10 May 2007, 19:44
Kids in their first year of afl shouldn't play more than 5 or 6 games. Its a tough thing to go from dominating under 18 carnivals to playing against grown men. they just get hurt. Much better to see what its like, realise you're not fit enough/strong enough and then work that much harder to get to afl level. I like what Fremantle have done with Collard ( accidental as it may be) He's played a bit in wafl to get his body ready, run into some good form ( 12 goals in three games i think i read somewhere ) and now he's ready to play afl. I rekon he'll play 8 games this year
:thumbsu:
pistol17
11 May 2007, 11:50
Kids in their first year of afl shouldn't play more than 5 or 6 games. Its a tough thing to go from dominating under 18 carnivals to playing against grown men. they just get hurt. Much better to see what its like, realise you're not fit enough/strong enough and then work that much harder to get to afl level. I like what Fremantle have done with Collard ( accidental as it may be) He's played a bit in wafl to get his body ready, run into some good form ( 12 goals in three games i think i read somewhere ) and now he's ready to play afl. I rekon he'll play 8 games this year
:thumbsu:
Depends on the player. Judd, Hasleby, Pavlich all played more than 5 - 6 games in the first year. Think Judd missed round 1, played for East Perth and kicked 4 goals got 5 sandover medal votes and hasnt been back to East Perth since.
Not saying collard is anywhere near those guys tho